Love this line (one among many) "There's no doubt who the best chess player is, but the criminal is not playing chess!" Many thanks for sharing all this.
I love your content! Couple years ago kata for me was just "asian war dance" that you've gotta learn just to pass grade. That changed slowly with your content, but most "lightbulb" moment for me was in Krav Maga class, where we were doing some partner drill I couldn't do due to injury I sustained a bit earlier. The trainer had me do the drill alone, slow and in control. Couple seconds in and I was like "HEY! This is Pinan!". Ever since I try to learn more about bunkai and your stuff is absolutely invaluable.
Krav Maga where I am is full of criminals and neo-Nazis. That's a big flaw of non traditional martial arts. Not that this is what we're talking about, I just thought of it. As a karateka who isn't an expert in application, I'm afraid that I would be destroyed in a self defense situation by a Nazi criminal who practices Krav Maga and MMA. That's why this is so helpful, the application focus on our marital art. If it ever needs to be done, there's a bigger chance of survival.
@@EneSacarification Hey man, I'm just telling it like it is. I've been training karate for more than 20 years, but I've been focusing a lot on competition, which means fighting other karateka under competition rules. The guys I'm talking about go out and fight full contact on the street, with no rules. A group of Nazis attacked a guy and two girls during a feminist festival, one of these Nazis took down the guy, sat on his chest and pounded away with punches, the guy barely survived, and is scarred for life. So, yeah, despite my harder and more application based training lately, I wouldn't stand a chance against a 190 cm, 100 kilo Nazi on steroids, who also does krav maga and MMA.
@@EneSacarification If you practice for competition, you are used to one sort of movement, and striking above the belt, although you would probably use kicks against the legs too. If you don't practice for a real fight, a street fight, and don't do full contact, it will be difficult in real life. Ian says it all in the video.
@@EneSacarification Ah, alrighty then. It's not forbidden to ask. It's an informational and interesting video. There are different forms of practice, that's one thing that's clear. 🙂
@@nedim_guitar where are you from where it is mostly neo-nazis and criminals who train krav maga and mma? I can only speak about where I'm from, but I've never witnessed neo-nazis and criminals in either. They're usually run out of the schools if they're discovered and determined to be learning for malicious ends.
A masterful and illuminating synthesis of key concepts previously disseminated in your other excellent and useful videos. It provides a clear and robust framework for the serious study of kata-based, non-consensual combat in any karate dojo. After returning to karate in my mid-fifties, your insights have provided the contextual clarity I was looking for. I am deeply grateful.
Iain, your insights and knowledge and willingness to share, IMHO, has made an invaluable contribution to modern karate and how we look at kata - Osu! One helpful training method, which would come under solo kata practice, is to select a sequence of techniques from any kata and practice them in a "shadow sparring" format. First following the original order of the kata sequence, then mixing up the order of techniques. Applications that make sense to use a technique more than once (such as head control elbow strike), fire off multiples, make it as real as possible I have found this is a great way to transition from a mindset of form within the kata to function, training the techniques in a practical format with an application and opponent always in mind. This format is very useful once you have practiced bunkai as you can reinforce the defense sequence via shadow sparring at full speed and power. You can then start adding in variations keeping true to the principals that the kata has taught. IMO, solo practice of kata starts with learning a form and then becomes formless solo practice of self-defense applications, with the kata always there as a blueprint and a way to improve technique. Another solo "shadow sparring" kata format, is to have a particular attack in mind, then start shadow sparring putting together all the different techniques the kata gives you to defend against that specific attack. Flow through as many combinations in different orders as you can. I hope this is useful :-)
Ian, Great video! It's refreshing to hear a modern karate-ka defend kata and it's usefulness relative to self-defense. I particularly enjoy how you break down the four parts of effective kata training. So many people today don't understand or teach this. It makes it extremely difficult to find, in my opinion, a quality karate school. Your methods and application reminds me of my very first karate teacher. Thanks for the wealth of knowledge. Cheers, Ryan
When I used to train in TKD I wish more thought went into the application of patterns. I started training as a teenager because I wanted to learn to defend myself. Although I did enjoy my training, what I actually learned was sport sparing & pattern performance & eventually realised I was probably not much more able to defend myself than when I started. We would sometimes consider possible applications of movements but it was always an afterthought. Just something fun to do for a change. With TKD deriving from Shotokan the original applications of techniques is diluted even further. I eventually left & started MMA which seemed much more practical (I don't do it now though but it still interests me). Maybe I'll start training again in some form.
57:10 I used to do tae kwon do and got to a 1st degree black belt. I loved doing poomsae (kata if you will) and hapkido. Some time after I quit, I remember a friend of mine messing around with me and grabbed either my shirt or my arm. I instinctly did some sort of move that at first looked something like judo but I now realize was a habit of poomsae and/or a hapkido technique that made me react that way. This is illuminating :)
Thank you Iain. I love this! Like your other applications map video, this presentation kind of serves as a map for your other videos on different principles. I also like how you took the most essential parts of each of your previous lessons and stitched it together. Seeing it as a whole really gives a good picture of modern karate we can work towards. Invaluable.
Thank you for sharing this wonderful presentation Iain ! Both your technical abilities and encyclopedial knowledge never cease to amaze me ! We are really grateful to benefit from your insights and experience (as well as other like-minded practical karate enthusiasts sharing a lot with the rest of us)
Excellent presentation. Absolutely scary to see my exact traditional Okinawa art and years of experience reflected in your presentation. Of course it is not identical but all the core principles are eerily, if not amazingly duplicated.
Excellent insight Iain 🙏 With 45+ years training in Shotokan karate-do, your research and ideas have provided a refreshed (and new) perspective. This exchange clearly highlights the practice of karate is a life-long pursuit reinforcing the notion you're never too old (or too experienced) to learn. Oss
Awesome video, delivered with the passion and humour that make your live seminars such compelling events. Looking forward to getting to more of them in 2020. Many thanks for this video and wish you and the family a wonderful Xmas and New Year.
Great concise, lucid and instructive teaching. Context is key. Self defense tactics balanced with fighting study. Deliberate practice is critical for the mindset, intent and skill attainment. Awesome.
This is an outstanding lesson. All martial artist would do themselves good to listen to this. Just why I look towards you to point me in the right direction for deeper study and application. Thank you Sensei. Happy New Year! Cheers!
I got two pieces of gold from the two talks I watched you give (and this one being the longer version of the interview you did with Enkamp.) 1. That we could be doing a 180 or 360 around a single opponent. 2. That I can imagine the kata I'm doing as a 1 on 1 with a single opponent. I came from an experimental club already, as historical as we could be but as pragmatist as possible. So very good, but we always imagined multiple attackers and now I will do both and look forward to my next training session. Thank you very much for sharing your ideas.
Thanks to the interview you did with Rokas, I decided to subscribe to your channel. I plan to look at your videos little later right now it’s 3:25 in the morning.
Great lesson and well as other videos, but this one is probably most focused and concentrated like a ray of light in the darkness. Great job. What is really sad, is that you are the only person who actually speaks about this and trying to explain what karate is and how those who stood at the very beginning of it understood the katas, bunkai, and karate itself. I never heard that in any school there was someone who would clearly explained all this especially from a most important standpoint of consensual and non-consensual violence concept. This is what should be explained to all people who start to practice actually any martial art. It so simple and at the same time so clearly explains everything. Of course it is also very important for student to ask "Why?" especially himself to understand why he is practicing his art/style and what is his aim. I often hear that there is "true" karate, or "true" karatekas (like some who train to fight on competitions vs kata practitioners) or good/bad martial art and it's such a nonsense if you think about it from the violence concept standpoint. And I think a lot of people make mistakes trying to study like competitors if their true aim was self-defence and vice versa and became disappointed in their karate . Thanks again for your great job. I really think that this is the main video that every karate practitioner must see.
Just such an awesome summary of most of your work. I often thought to myself 'how can i forward so many videos to my students for their perusal?'. This is really a great map of your whole approach. Thankyou!
Hi Mark, Great to hear from you! Life good? I’ll post the link to the article here so people can read your article and translations. Highly recommended. Can you belive it's been 15 years!?! : www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/karate-ni-sente-nashi-what-masters-had-say
True as it can be - independent of the art you practice. Thank you so much for sharing it with us, sensei. Looking forward to see you on one of your next seminars!
In really needed this to help me to understand kata and its application. Its worrying to see how far many schools have strayed from the original teachings.
Excellent explanation as always. I enjoyed very much your KNX video, where you talk about some of these stuff too. I really hope one day I can assist yo your class or seminar!!!! Merry Christmas and a GREAT New Year!
Great job, very interesting for anyone as passionate about martial arts, I practise wushu, sanda and BJJ, I love martial arts history, philosophy, techniques. Support from a martial arts lover from France
In my case, I did end up in a street fight with two opponents, although I only happened to accidentally walk into the situation. After being sucker punched I was able to side kick one in the solar plexus, dropping him down on the street (he was moving forward). The other opponent stopped short, looked back and forth at me and his buddy, and evidently decided they were stupid. I admit I was now cussing them out for being stupid. I post this because your Anko Itosu quote is quite correct in my case, now about 4 decades ago.
It's the saying "The true master is more concerned with the tradition of practical effectiveness than adhering to the tradition of image". If it doesn't work, then it doesn't survive long enough to be regarded as "tradition".
I do not practice karate but another traditional martial art. (with no doubt where it is placed on the martial map ^^) But your explanations are very interesting and enriching for my general martial art culture. And it also resonates with a part of my practice of kata as a way to understand, apply and internalize the great principles Thank you very much! (and the respect you show to other practices (from all sides of the martial spectrum) are refreshing in a polarized internet where everybody is looking for the "best" practice.
Another excellent/fascinating video. So much information I will have to watch it a few more times! Have you read the book Shotokan's Secret? It is a historical approach to kata/bunkai that fits in lots of ways with your own teaching. Thank you, sensei, for this video. Merry Christmas.
Exactly correct. I was told a lot of BS about kata that I never believed. Although I became skilled at sparring, I was certain the kata are mostly about trapping, grabbing, and grappling. BTW, your fingers should be tighter together on Shuto, he, he, he. I was about to post several other names on UA-cam, but you know them. Practice kata on loose sand-- dang that is hard.
Lovely stuff. Thanks very much. On the choice between historian and pragmatist, I'd argue that we can't be sure the pragmatist's measure of merit is valid. In training we're swimming on dry land, and most of us never get in the water to test whether one application works better than another. Our pragmatic application might work better in the dojo or resonate with our (usually limited) live experience but there's a chance we're missing Itosu's (historically based and therefore likely much richer) context. Include the frictions and stresses of threat-to-life combat, and the measure of merit changes. Then, because there is no perfect Itosu notebook, we don't know his context. This might be a life-threatening engagement in a society where legal constraints are different to ours (and in darkness, in the rain, in a cocktail dress, etc.) so we can't judge the historical application very well.
Thank you! Noting is guaranteed to work 100% of the time because combat contains many variables. However, we can know what is more likely to work than not. I’d not agree that’s something we can’t know because these things can be tested. Only real is real, but realistic is remains an accurate measure. To run with your “dry land swimming analogy”, the key is to “get in the water” in a safe way. We can learn to swim in a pool. Sure, that’s not the same as falling in ice-cold water with a current, but we can still test our ability to move through water effectively and apply the lessons of those who nearly drowned. Remaining on “dry land” is a training error and realistic training, for those who engage in it, can be a valid measure of functionality. By way of another analogy, combat athletes test what they do in training, so they are prepared for a bout. The training is not the same as the bout, but the training nevertheless prepares them for that bout. If it did not, then training would not be a thing :-)
@@dermotrooney9584 Fully understood and simply expanding on my position in light of the post. Such posts are valuable because they can add further value and explanation to the video. Thank you. Clausewitz certainly talked a lot about what worked, and we can assume he believed in troops being trained, doing exercises, etc. inline which what was known to work. My point remains that pragmatism has an objective measure that remains open to us today. That’s one of the reasons I prefer it to an historic measure (ironically, those from history also applied a pragmatic measure). Thanks once again for the post. All the best, Iain
Excellent video, I could relate to a lot of things you said. A really nice presentation too. But I humbly request you to make a video where these concepts are utilised in a street fight sparring scenario. It would be really helpful. Thanks
Thank you! A video like the one you describe was added a couple of years ago: ua-cam.com/video/wA3ZLONLq50/v-deo.html There’s many more like it in my app too. I hope it helps.
Once again, Sir, I find that I cannot disagree with anything you have said. Most of my friends will tell you that is a VERY rare thing indeed 😎. Especially when it comes to modern thinking on traditional martial arts. In past vids, when you have discussed RBS, I sort of kind of figured that I had an idea of what you were talking about. After this vid, I am convinced that I have little to no clue as to what you mean by that. 😥 Is there a video, you have done, that is specific to Reality Based Sparring? Thank You so much for the continuing education and idea flow. I hope you and yours have a wonderful New Year.
There is a shotokan dojo next to my home and a boxing club not that far. I want to join both but van only afford 1.. which one would b better for actual combat..?
I think it would depend on the nature of the club. Punching is the key skill for the physical side of self-protection, because most altercations start at punching range / conversation range. Boxing is great for punching and has the advantage that live practise is key; whereas some karate groups sadly omit live practise, or do it in unrealistic ways. If the karate group does include bunkai and live practise, then it could have the advantage that other “back-up” ranges will also be covered in addition to punching. If by “actual combat” you are referring to self-protection, then you also need training in things like law, verbal de-escalation, escape skills, criminal behaviour, realistic weapons training, etc. Sadly, the vast majority of groups (all styles) totally omit these things. The boxing club is likely to be solely focussed on the skills for winning boxing bouts, so it almost certain to omit these things. However, it’s also likely the karate group will too, especially if the focus is sport or “art”. My advice would be to go along to both, try both, and see what you find best suits your needs.
Would you say that Daido Juku and Zen Do Kai have helped Karate rethink its thought process into modernity, or do you think it has done more to damage it? I ask because it is a question of if Karate's knockdown and full contact variants, in the aforementioned formats, are a stepping stone into practical minded self defense.
Great work Iain, as usual, keep up the good work :) PS: Calling you by name due to your recent take on traditional things you don't do, such as being refered to as sensei, if that's not okay with you I'll make sure to adjust. Best regards
I'm rally sorry, but I didn't have time to watch all of your presentation. I agree that kata is a culmination of moves that you have learnt in the dojo with a patner. It is an aid memoir, remeber all of your techniques that you have have learnt. Singular, rather than together. Due to lack of knolwege and Chinese whispers (ironic phrase) techniques have been changed. I.e. the throw in the first move of pinan shodan. I've done it 40 years ago as a.block,.block strike. The first time that I was taught the throw, I could immediately see that.it was pinan shodan.
ALL martial arts are close range. Even the Chinese style called "Long Fist" is really a close range style. The word "long" just refers to the shape of the pstures, or sometimes the length of the routine.
If a martial art focuses solely on kick and punches, and omits trapping, gripping, throwing, groundwork, etc. then it will be at a loss when we get very close. We see this happen a lot when martial arts start to focus on outfighting a fellow practitioner within a given paradigm. The combatants start at a distance where they can’t hit one another, such that one or more is required to close the gap, and then that gap is re-established following an exchange (think modern boxing, TKD, much of karate, etc). Self-defence wise, it tends to start close (conversation distance) and stay close. Personally, I like to train both, but not all do, and I think it’s a self-evident truth that many today don’t practise close range skills because those skills are not required for the agreed way of fighting. That’s how many arts are practiced today. It’s therefore not inaccurate to observe that a majority (certainly not all) practice their art in a long-range way; irrespective of that way it was practised in the past.
On your martial map, you use martial arts to describe health, culture etc, perhaps it would be better to have another group name like ‘non-combative considerations’ or something, it would be nice if martial arts was reserved for the true sense ie professional military/para-military etc. Enjoyed, thanks.
Finding a common terminology is always tricky. However, I think most people would see military combatives as being quite distinct from martial arts. The vast majority of people who would consider themselves martial artists will also be found outside of any military setting. I’d therefore feel using the term “martial arts” as most do is the simplest way to go. I also feel the “art” part of “martial arts” make clear we are also taking about non-combative considerations.
Pirata Sports...regarding use of the term "professional military/para-military etc." Is the intention to include "Karate" in this exclusive reservation? It is my understanding that the Japanese government, while complimentary of the obvious results from the training, concluded that it would not be a beneficial addition to their "basic" and other military training regimens. It simply took too much dedicated practice to achieve the results. Therefore, it did not gain a place beside the rifle, sword, and spear (bayonet) in their military regimens...
@@joemontague5257 Many modern artists feel that weapons training is to help you get better at empty hand fighting, but historically the reverse is true. This error comes from not discerning the difference between fighting and self-defense. The Ming Dynasty General whose writings eventually became the Bubishi, General Qi Ji Guang, stated in his book "New Book Of Effective Methods" that empty hand martial arts are not useful in battle, but are instead for training basics in preparation for learning weapons. Okinawa was in a unique position because military weapons were outlawed, so they had to use their hands (and some improvised weapons made from farm implements).
Joe Montague No, I’d argue Karate, along with a whole lot of things known as ‘martial arts’ nowadays are not really martial arts in the truest sense of the words.
'blocking is not the primary method' ..; and yet Kenwa Mabuni thought the blocks in the kata were in fact blocks. See his 'Karate Do Nyumon' (1938). And if you look at Choki Motobu's books you see the same thing: blocks are blocks. Mabuni as a close friend of Motobu, BTW, and they trained together.
I think about this a lot as well. Funakoshi and many of those old masters show the most ridiculous interpretations of kata movements you can imagine in their books and video clips. (Someone throws a punch, and you step back, chamber your hands, then perform an up-block all while their hand is two feet away from your head) Things that are laughable if you know anything about combat. It makes me wonder whether they were so determined to keep their true techniques hidden that they didn't mind looking ridiculous, or if they themselves did not know (were never taught) the true interpretation of the techniques.
@Whammer79 I disagree. An untrained person will get their ass handed to them if attacked by a violent criminal. The "will to go into action" means nothing if you don't know what to DO with an attack. The problem with kata is not that people are practicing techniques, it is that they are practicing the WRONG techniques. The examples shown in old karate books are all completely wrong interpretations of the kata movements. They were either hiding the true meaning, or did not know it themselves. The original meanings can, however, be discovered. Everything in the kata means something. It is a language, a secret code. If you pay attention to the direction, angle, stance, arm movements, and gaze, the meaning will often become obvious. Kata is teaching you more complex body movements the same way Chinese Shuai Jiao drill teach you that art today. Watching the Shuai Jiao drills it is not obvious what they are doing. When you see them apply it, they are very effective techniques to unbalance the opponent. I have a channel where I began to attempt to decode the meaning of kata movements called "Decoding Martial Meaning".
I've heard a lot of this before. Seems some things he says are contradictory and need clarification. Like dominate the fight but don't close the gap instead seek shelter. Plus in kata I would train to fight 8 attackers. This is what Itso taught. Matsumura did not invent Bassai for fighting a single attacker. It was to quickly kill as many soldiers as possible and move quickly through their ranks using 3 waza or less.
YOU WROTE: “Seems some things he says are contradictory and need clarification. Like dominate the fight but don't close the gap instead seek shelter.” I think you may be confusing the two kinds of violence discussed? There is consensual violence (were people agree to fight each other and fight to “win”) and non-consensual violence (self-protection with the goal of avoiding harm from criminal violence). It’s not in the criminal’s interests to raise their guard from 10 feet away and then seek to close that gap, and it’s not in our interest to do the same in the extremely unlikely event that did happen. Criminal violence does not have the same mutually agreed distance as consensual violence (there is no gap to close). It starts close and we seek to dominate in order to facilitate effective escape. There’s not a contradiction there and I hope this helps clarify. YOU WROTE: “Plus in kata I would train to fight 8 attackers. This is what Itso taught.” We can and should train to escape groups, but seeking to out fight them would be a grave tactical error. It’s also not what Itosu taught. His own writing is limited, but his number 1 student is widely acknowledged to be Kenwa Mabuni. He wrote the following: “The meaning of the directions in kata is not well understood, and frequently mistakes are made in the interpretation of kata movements. In extreme cases, it is sometimes heard that "this kata moves in 8 directions so it is designed for fighting 8 opponents" or some such nonsense.” - Karate-Do Nyumon As we can see, he felt that I the kata against eight people was “nonsense”. Again, I hope that helps. All the best, Iain
@@practicalkatabunkai Then how does it work? I am so confused? I thought karate was for dispatching many foes in a short amount of time. Because the kata was inspired by or at least reinterpreted because of Captain Perry visit to Okinawa. That Matsumura wanted to rescue the king and help him escape if surrounded. I think Jesse the karate nerd said this and remember reading that. We beat them up and then escape? I guess that makes sense. But if they are beat up I do not really think of that as escaping. Fighting groups is only a tactical error if they can beat you. I think I might have to save a women, God forbid, if a group are "taking advantage" of her. Unfortunately I would have to put myself in grave danger but I would absolutely hate myself if I sacrificed her just because I was scared of getting hurt. If I rescue her does that make up for it being a tactical error or no? Should I just run away? Can't I just get tough and beat them? Thanks again sorry for not understanding. Karate is hard.
@@josephmalone253 It’s not possible to cover all of this in a message, but I will do my best. YOU WROTE: “We beat them up and then escape? I guess that makes sense. But if they are beat up I do not really think of that as escaping.” The tactics of escape require that they can’t give effective chase. We need to take away their ability or motivation to give chase. If we simply run, they may quickly catch us. If they are disorientated through impact to the head, or less mobile to impact to the legs, then we can more effectively gain and maintain distance. The aim is not to “win the fight” but to ensure effective escape. Trying to “out fight” a group is not an effective way to achieve the goal of avoiding harm. It’s not impossible, but it’s very difficult and requires a lot of luck (i.e. not a single one of the criminals is able to land an effective shot). Escaping is much more likely to work, but it’s not simply the action of running. There are skills and tactics assorted with effective escape. The live practise of escaping groups is vital if self-protection is an aim. YOU WROTE: “Fighting groups is only a tactical error if they can beat you.” It’s still a tactical error even if you get lucky. It’s an unnecessary risk when there are better options available. YOU WROTE: “If I rescue her does that make up for it being a tactical error or no? Should I just run away?” If you have others to protect, then you escape with them. Again, this needs trained and drilled live. Staying put and trying to outfight the group puts both of you in a very dangerous situation. While you are dealing with some of the group, the others are free to attack the other person. Both of you need to escape. That’s the best way to help them. Here is video I did on protecting others: ua-cam.com/video/RWYOwdbe4CI/v-deo.html YOU WROTE: “Can't I just get tough and beat them?” You need to be both tough and smart. It’s very hard to outfight a group, so the smart thing to do is escape them. This requires skills and practise. Unfortunately, many martial artists reduce escaping to the physical act of “running away”. There’s much more to it than that. The methods we use for one-on-one consensual fighting are a bad fit for this situation. We need to use the right strategy, tactics and methods for the specific goal. We can’t take the methods designed for one context and expect them to work in a very different context with differing goals. Here is another couple of videos that may help: Context: ua-cam.com/video/Wox8fB1Mdh8/v-deo.html Multiple Enemies: ua-cam.com/video/apahr0ujVJU/v-deo.html YOU WROTE: “Thanks again sorry for not understanding.” No problem at all! These issues are widely misunderstood, and your questions are valid ones. All the best, Iain
"By-product" is not a myth, Iain. It may not be as effective as some people think, but is very far removed from being a "myth". Ever heard of something called the "Kano Paradox"?
I think you may be missing the point I am making. It’s not just about safety restrictions. My take on that can be found here: iainabernethy.co.uk/content/banned-methods If you listen to it, you will hear I agree that training live in a “safe” way will result in more efficiency than training “dangerous” techniques in a way that is never live. However, the “by-product myth” is much wider than that and definitely remains a myth. It’s an overarching shift in goals, strategy, tactics and choice of technique (before we even discuss how we train). Training for specifically for Goal A will result in in a greater ability to achieve Goal A than training specifically for Goal B due to the limited cross over to Goal A. The myth is a myth.
I'm sorry I slipped your arm out of the way and hit you in the head. It's a habit I've got..... Really bloody funny. Must use that in class (with your permission Iain ? Obviously I will give you the credit - or perhaps blame you lol)
I can see how you arrived at your theory but it is based on a lack of or a limited amount of the true knowledge of karate and karate kata. As one man said a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.
What you are doing is solely based on the limited amount of skill and knowledge you have on kata and it’s application. I applaud you for what you are doing but it is missing the true Mark! In order to truly defeat an opponent you must “must” understand the anatomy and how to attack it! If I were going deer hunting I should know the best places to shot the deer to be able to put it down with one shot! So why don’t we have that type of knowledge in our fighting style when we are attacked by violent aggressive people! I want to be able to drop them in one shot! And that is the heart of karate! Otherwise it is no different from all the other garbage that people are teaching for self defense! The kata is a to the master a road map of the human body to the novice it is an enigma! You can’t see it because no one ever told you, but now I am telling you! The katas are “how to”instructional road maps to attack the vital areas of the human body! All those weird looking moves are attacks to the various systems and structures of the body and their various weak spots. Fore example most karate kata begin with the two fist down out in front of you, yes! Okay that is an attack to the femoral triangle of an opponent who has come up in front of you right in your face! And since you don’t know what the femoral triangle is like me enlighten you! It is one of the most vital areas in the human body in the top middle of each leg, right and left, where only a thin layer of skin and body tissue covers three (3) very vital areas of the human body! Which are the femoral artery, femoral vein and the femoral nerve! To find it, like in any kata that does a horse stance, take your fingers and reach inside your upper thigh into the area inside the muscle tissue of the thigh and feel for a pulse. If you find it that is the femoral triangle. One shot there and down you go because your blood pressure will drop instantly. So imagine being punched there on both sides with a powerful karate punch, down you would go. Fight over in less than a second! That is the true power of KARATE!
@@dexterbrown8332 I disagree. I have knowledge of that approach but reject it practically and historically. You are free to practise karate your own way, as am I. I chose not to practice that way based on experience and education, not a lack thereof. Again, this article will help you and others reading understand why I reject that approach: www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/pressure-points-sceptical-examination
In my teenage years i hated kata so much. This dude is a blessing to Karate regardless of style
Love this line (one among many) "There's no doubt who the best chess player is, but the criminal is not playing chess!" Many thanks for sharing all this.
Yes, the throwing the pieces and hitting the chess board over the head is a good analogy!
Magnus Carlsen!
Iain, what a valuable resourse! Loads of information all in one place. Thanks for posting.
I love your content! Couple years ago kata for me was just "asian war dance" that you've gotta learn just to pass grade. That changed slowly with your content, but most "lightbulb" moment for me was in Krav Maga class, where we were doing some partner drill I couldn't do due to injury I sustained a bit earlier. The trainer had me do the drill alone, slow and in control. Couple seconds in and I was like "HEY! This is Pinan!". Ever since I try to learn more about bunkai and your stuff is absolutely invaluable.
Krav Maga where I am is full of criminals and neo-Nazis. That's a big flaw of non traditional martial arts. Not that this is what we're talking about, I just thought of it. As a karateka who isn't an expert in application, I'm afraid that I would be destroyed in a self defense situation by a Nazi criminal who practices Krav Maga and MMA. That's why this is so helpful, the application focus on our marital art. If it ever needs to be done, there's a bigger chance of survival.
@@EneSacarification Hey man, I'm just telling it like it is. I've been training karate for more than 20 years, but I've been focusing a lot on competition, which means fighting other karateka under competition rules. The guys I'm talking about go out and fight full contact on the street, with no rules. A group of Nazis attacked a guy and two girls during a feminist festival, one of these Nazis took down the guy, sat on his chest and pounded away with punches, the guy barely survived, and is scarred for life. So, yeah, despite my harder and more application based training lately, I wouldn't stand a chance against a 190 cm, 100 kilo Nazi on steroids, who also does krav maga and MMA.
@@EneSacarification If you practice for competition, you are used to one sort of movement, and striking above the belt, although you would probably use kicks against the legs too. If you don't practice for a real fight, a street fight, and don't do full contact, it will be difficult in real life. Ian says it all in the video.
@@EneSacarification Ah, alrighty then. It's not forbidden to ask. It's an informational and interesting video. There are different forms of practice, that's one thing that's clear. 🙂
@@nedim_guitar where are you from where it is mostly neo-nazis and criminals who train krav maga and mma? I can only speak about where I'm from, but I've never witnessed neo-nazis and criminals in either. They're usually run out of the schools if they're discovered and determined to be learning for malicious ends.
A masterful and illuminating synthesis of key concepts previously disseminated in your other excellent and useful videos. It provides a clear and robust framework for the serious study of kata-based, non-consensual combat in any karate dojo. After returning to karate in my mid-fifties, your insights have provided the contextual clarity I was looking for. I am deeply grateful.
Iain, your insights and knowledge and willingness to share, IMHO, has made an invaluable contribution to modern karate and how we look at kata - Osu!
One helpful training method, which would come under solo kata practice, is to select a sequence of techniques from any kata and practice them in a "shadow sparring" format. First following the original order of the kata sequence, then mixing up the order of techniques. Applications that make sense to use a technique more than once (such as head control elbow strike), fire off multiples, make it as real as possible I have found this is a great way to transition from a mindset of form within the kata to function, training the techniques in a practical format with an application and opponent always in mind.
This format is very useful once you have practiced bunkai as you can reinforce the defense sequence via shadow sparring at full speed and power. You can then start adding in variations keeping true to the principals that the kata has taught.
IMO, solo practice of kata starts with learning a form and then becomes formless solo practice of self-defense applications, with the kata always there as a blueprint and a way to improve technique.
Another solo "shadow sparring" kata format, is to have a particular attack in mind, then start shadow sparring putting together all the different techniques the kata gives you to defend against that specific attack. Flow through as many combinations in different orders as you can.
I hope this is useful :-)
Merry Christmas Iain and to all fellow practitioners!
This is pure gold! Can't believe how much information is in this. Great work
Ian, Great video! It's refreshing to hear a modern karate-ka defend kata and it's usefulness relative to self-defense. I particularly enjoy how you break down the four parts of effective kata training. So many people today don't understand or teach this. It makes it extremely difficult to find, in my opinion, a quality karate school. Your methods and application reminds me of my very first karate teacher. Thanks for the wealth of knowledge.
Cheers,
Ryan
When I used to train in TKD I wish more thought went into the application of patterns. I started training as a teenager because I wanted to learn to defend myself. Although I did enjoy my training, what I actually learned was sport sparing & pattern performance & eventually realised I was probably not much more able to defend myself than when I started. We would sometimes consider possible applications of movements but it was always an afterthought. Just something fun to do for a change. With TKD deriving from Shotokan the original applications of techniques is diluted even further. I eventually left & started MMA which seemed much more practical (I don't do it now though but it still interests me). Maybe I'll start training again in some form.
This applies to so many arts, not just karate. The drills in fma, throws not used in sport judo, etc. All of them can apply this! Excellent!!!
This is an excellent presentation. Martial Artists from all styles can take away something good from it. Thanks for posting.
57:10 I used to do tae kwon do and got to a 1st degree black belt. I loved doing poomsae (kata if you will) and hapkido. Some time after I quit, I remember a friend of mine messing around with me and grabbed either my shirt or my arm. I instinctly did some sort of move that at first looked something like judo but I now realize was a habit of poomsae and/or a hapkido technique that made me react that way. This is illuminating :)
Thank you Iain. I love this! Like your other applications map video, this presentation kind of serves as a map for your other videos on different principles.
I also like how you took the most essential parts of each of your previous lessons and stitched it together. Seeing it as a whole really gives a good picture of modern karate we can work towards. Invaluable.
Thank you for sharing this wonderful presentation Iain ! Both your technical abilities and encyclopedial knowledge never cease to amaze me ! We are really grateful to benefit from your insights and experience (as well as other like-minded practical karate enthusiasts sharing a lot with the rest of us)
Excellent presentation. Absolutely scary to see my exact traditional Okinawa art and years of experience reflected in your presentation. Of course it is not identical but all the core principles are eerily, if not amazingly duplicated.
Excellent insight Iain 🙏 With 45+ years training in Shotokan karate-do, your research and ideas have provided a refreshed (and new) perspective. This exchange clearly highlights the practice of karate is a life-long pursuit reinforcing the notion you're never too old (or too experienced) to learn. Oss
Awesome video, delivered with the passion and humour that make your live seminars such compelling events. Looking forward to getting to more of them in 2020. Many thanks for this video and wish you and the family a wonderful Xmas and New Year.
Excellent as always and so much info in one place. Bookmarked so I can send folks straight here. Thanks for all your content and all the best.
Great concise, lucid and instructive teaching. Context is key. Self defense tactics balanced with fighting study. Deliberate practice is critical for the mindset, intent and skill attainment. Awesome.
This is an outstanding lesson. All martial artist would do themselves good to listen to this. Just why I look towards you to point me in the right direction for deeper study and application. Thank you Sensei. Happy New Year! Cheers!
Awesome work. I really respect the way you take martial arts very seriously :).
excellent work - thankyou!
I got two pieces of gold from the two talks I watched you give (and this one being the longer version of the interview you did with Enkamp.) 1. That we could be doing a 180 or 360 around a single opponent. 2. That I can imagine the kata I'm doing as a 1 on 1 with a single opponent. I came from an experimental club already, as historical as we could be but as pragmatist as possible. So very good, but we always imagined multiple attackers and now I will do both and look forward to my next training session. Thank you very much for sharing your ideas.
Man, this is gold, pure gold. I've bookmarked this in several browsers and even in my Karate cognitive map to make sure I can always get back to it :)
¡El mejor regalo de navidad! Gracias y saludos desde Mar del Plata, Argentina. Oss!!!
¡de nada! ¡Feliz Navidad!
Thanks to the interview you did with Rokas, I decided to subscribe to your channel. I plan to look at your videos little later right now it’s 3:25 in the morning.
Solid stuff and great, clear progression through your concepts, one building on another.
I don't know why youtube hasn't sugested this to me before. Good video, learned stuff today.
Very interesting approach! I’m changing the way I look to the Kata with your insights! OSS!
Great lesson and well as other videos, but this one is probably most focused and concentrated like a ray of light in the darkness. Great job.
What is really sad, is that you are the only person who actually speaks about this and trying to explain what karate is and how those who stood at the very beginning of it understood the katas, bunkai, and karate itself.
I never heard that in any school there was someone who would clearly explained all this especially from a most important standpoint of consensual and non-consensual violence concept. This is what should be explained to all people who start to practice actually any martial art. It so simple and at the same time so clearly explains everything.
Of course it is also very important for student to ask "Why?" especially himself to understand why he is practicing his art/style and what is his aim.
I often hear that there is "true" karate, or "true" karatekas (like some who train to fight on competitions vs kata practitioners) or good/bad martial art and it's such a nonsense if you think about it from the violence concept standpoint.
And I think a lot of people make mistakes trying to study like competitors if their true aim was self-defence and vice versa and became disappointed in their karate .
Thanks again for your great job. I really think that this is the main video that every karate practitioner must see.
Just such an awesome summary of most of your work. I often thought to myself 'how can i forward so many videos to my students for their perusal?'.
This is really a great map of your whole approach. Thankyou!
Nice to see my translations of Mabuni and Motobu being quoted!
Hi Mark, Great to hear from you! Life good? I’ll post the link to the article here so people can read your article and translations. Highly recommended. Can you belive it's been 15 years!?! : www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/karate-ni-sente-nashi-what-masters-had-say
True as it can be - independent of the art you practice. Thank you so much for sharing it with us, sensei. Looking forward to see you on one of your next seminars!
Awesome video! Can’t wait to attend your seminar on Sunday!
Thank you for posting this. Many of your videos have helped to deepen my understanding of karate.
Absolutely awesome video! For me personally it’s an excellent summary of information you shared at seminars i attended! Thanks Iain!
Great approach to training. I truly appreciate all of the research that you have done!
Amazing presentation sir. Thank you. :)
In really needed this to help me to understand kata and its application. Its worrying to see how far many schools have strayed from the original teachings.
Thank you for putting together this invaluable content. Great work!
Excellent explanation as always.
I enjoyed very much your KNX video, where you talk about some of these stuff too.
I really hope one day I can assist yo your class or seminar!!!!
Merry Christmas and a GREAT New Year!
Excellent lecture! It contains all one needs to know, now it's only about using the knowledge to develop one's karate. Thank you!
Great job, very interesting for anyone as passionate about martial arts, I practise wushu, sanda and BJJ, I love martial arts history, philosophy, techniques. Support from a martial arts lover from France
Great vid i enjoyed it and i always do at a min i always learn a new way to explain things to my students
In my case, I did end up in a street fight with two opponents, although I only happened to accidentally walk into the situation. After being sucker punched I was able to side kick one in the solar plexus, dropping him down on the street (he was moving forward). The other opponent stopped short, looked back and forth at me and his buddy, and evidently decided they were stupid. I admit I was now cussing them out for being stupid. I post this because your Anko Itosu quote is quite correct in my case, now about 4 decades ago.
Thank you Abernethy Sensei. Merry Christmas to you.
Random question warning: Why is there "empty hand on the hip" on Motobu Choki's pictures when you have to hold something with?
Thank you Sensei, that was brilliant! Cheers.
A bit late commenting this, but thanks for the early Christmas present sensei
It's the saying "The true master is more concerned with the tradition of practical effectiveness than adhering to the tradition of image". If it doesn't work, then it doesn't survive long enough to be regarded as "tradition".
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I appreciate it very much.
It really helps to teach.
Great! Thanks for sharing your studies
Love it 🙏 Thank you for your Time and Perspective
I do not practice karate but another traditional martial art. (with no doubt where it is placed on the martial map ^^)
But your explanations are very interesting and enriching for my general martial art culture.
And it also resonates with a part of my practice of kata as a way to understand, apply and internalize the great principles
Thank you very much!
(and the respect you show to other practices (from all sides of the martial spectrum) are refreshing in a polarized internet where everybody is looking for the "best" practice.
Another excellent/fascinating video. So much information I will have to watch it a few more times!
Have you read the book Shotokan's Secret? It is a historical approach to kata/bunkai that fits in lots of ways with your own teaching.
Thank you, sensei, for this video. Merry Christmas.
Exactly correct. I was told a lot of BS about kata that I never believed. Although I became skilled at sparring, I was certain the kata are mostly about trapping, grabbing, and grappling. BTW, your fingers should be tighter together on Shuto, he, he, he. I was about to post several other names on UA-cam, but you know them. Practice kata on loose sand-- dang that is hard.
Great summary! 👍
Thank you so much. I study shotokan and Tai chi.
Iain, what is your recommed order of kata to learn?
thanks Iain
Really help me thanks. Now, teach me how to compromise with my sensei when my view about kata for us are different. Haha
Lovely stuff. Thanks very much. On the choice between historian and pragmatist, I'd argue that we can't be sure the pragmatist's measure of merit is valid. In training we're swimming on dry land, and most of us never get in the water to test whether one application works better than another. Our pragmatic application might work better in the dojo or resonate with our (usually limited) live experience but there's a chance we're missing Itosu's (historically based and therefore likely much richer) context. Include the frictions and stresses of threat-to-life combat, and the measure of merit changes. Then, because there is no perfect Itosu notebook, we don't know his context. This might be a life-threatening engagement in a society where legal constraints are different to ours (and in darkness, in the rain, in a cocktail dress, etc.) so we can't judge the historical application very well.
Thank you! Noting is guaranteed to work 100% of the time because combat contains many variables. However, we can know what is more likely to work than not. I’d not agree that’s something we can’t know because these things can be tested. Only real is real, but realistic is remains an accurate measure. To run with your “dry land swimming analogy”, the key is to “get in the water” in a safe way. We can learn to swim in a pool. Sure, that’s not the same as falling in ice-cold water with a current, but we can still test our ability to move through water effectively and apply the lessons of those who nearly drowned. Remaining on “dry land” is a training error and realistic training, for those who engage in it, can be a valid measure of functionality. By way of another analogy, combat athletes test what they do in training, so they are prepared for a bout. The training is not the same as the bout, but the training nevertheless prepares them for that bout. If it did not, then training would not be a thing :-)
@@practicalkatabunkai No criticism intended. I'm loving what I've seen of your stuff and am after more. 👍 The swimming on dry land is from Clausewitz.
@@dermotrooney9584 Fully understood and simply expanding on my position in light of the post. Such posts are valuable because they can add further value and explanation to the video. Thank you. Clausewitz certainly talked a lot about what worked, and we can assume he believed in troops being trained, doing exercises, etc. inline which what was known to work. My point remains that pragmatism has an objective measure that remains open to us today. That’s one of the reasons I prefer it to an historic measure (ironically, those from history also applied a pragmatic measure). Thanks once again for the post. All the best, Iain
@@practicalkatabunkai Cheers Iain. I'll be getting your pinan bunkai book once I've paid for Christmas. 🤞
Excellent video, I could relate to a lot of things you said. A really nice presentation too. But I humbly request you to make a video where these concepts are utilised in a street fight sparring scenario. It would be really helpful.
Thanks
Thank you! A video like the one you describe was added a couple of years ago: ua-cam.com/video/wA3ZLONLq50/v-deo.html There’s many more like it in my app too. I hope it helps.
Amen !!! So good to ear it!
What is the name of book Karate do ????
Once again, Sir, I find that I cannot disagree with anything you have said. Most of my friends will tell you that is a VERY rare thing indeed 😎. Especially when it comes to modern thinking on traditional martial arts. In past vids, when you have discussed RBS, I sort of kind of figured that I had an idea of what you were talking about. After this vid, I am convinced that I have little to no clue as to what you mean by that. 😥 Is there a video, you have done, that is specific to Reality Based Sparring?
Thank You so much for the continuing education and idea flow. I hope you and yours have a wonderful New Year.
There is a shotokan dojo next to my home and a boxing club not that far. I want to join both but van only afford 1.. which one would b better for actual combat..?
I think it would depend on the nature of the club. Punching is the key skill for the physical side of self-protection, because most altercations start at punching range / conversation range. Boxing is great for punching and has the advantage that live practise is key; whereas some karate groups sadly omit live practise, or do it in unrealistic ways. If the karate group does include bunkai and live practise, then it could have the advantage that other “back-up” ranges will also be covered in addition to punching. If by “actual combat” you are referring to self-protection, then you also need training in things like law, verbal de-escalation, escape skills, criminal behaviour, realistic weapons training, etc. Sadly, the vast majority of groups (all styles) totally omit these things. The boxing club is likely to be solely focussed on the skills for winning boxing bouts, so it almost certain to omit these things. However, it’s also likely the karate group will too, especially if the focus is sport or “art”. My advice would be to go along to both, try both, and see what you find best suits your needs.
@@practicalkatabunkai shotokan gives me more options .. boxing is just punching ..id like to train both 2b honest
Brilliant. From a karateka of 50 yrs practice 👍
Would you say that Daido Juku and Zen Do Kai have helped Karate rethink its thought process into modernity, or do you think it has done more to damage it? I ask because it is a question of if Karate's knockdown and full contact variants, in the aforementioned formats, are a stepping stone into practical minded self defense.
Great job!!!
What style of karate is this? Is it Okinawan, Japanese, or a synthesis?
Excellent presentation!! Well worth the 2 cups of tea and McVities chocolate digestives 👍🏾
Great work Iain, as usual, keep up the good work :)
PS: Calling you by name due to your recent take on traditional things you don't do, such as being refered to as sensei, if that's not okay with you I'll make sure to adjust. Best regards
Whatever works for you is find with me :-) I’ll answer to whatever I’m called.
Excelente, totalmente de acuerdo
I'm rally sorry, but I didn't have time to watch all of your presentation.
I agree that kata is a culmination of moves that you have learnt in the dojo with a patner. It is an aid memoir, remeber all of your techniques that you have have learnt. Singular, rather than together.
Due to lack of knolwege and Chinese whispers (ironic phrase) techniques have been changed. I.e. the throw in the first move of pinan shodan. I've done it 40 years ago as a.block,.block strike. The first time that I was taught the throw, I could immediately see that.it was pinan shodan.
Very good ,I am a pragmatist too
Great ..osam ..awaesame ..just mind blowing....Oosss..🙏🙂
Thank you sir ..oss ..heart dana ka lia...or mara chanel vhi karate ka satha jura ha plzz dakhna ..🙏🙏💞
Thanks for your life-knowledge interpretation, i've a copy of bubishi by Sensei McCartney and is dificult to understand it.
1:11 I am pretty sure I'm gonna use all of it :D
I'm pleased you find it useful!
Superb
wow, Marry Martial artist chirs-mas two days early, thank you sir!
In business they say, “If we both agree then one of us is unnecessary.”
ALL martial arts are close range. Even the Chinese style called "Long Fist" is really a close range style. The word "long" just refers to the shape of the pstures, or sometimes the length of the routine.
If a martial art focuses solely on kick and punches, and omits trapping, gripping, throwing, groundwork, etc. then it will be at a loss when we get very close. We see this happen a lot when martial arts start to focus on outfighting a fellow practitioner within a given paradigm. The combatants start at a distance where they can’t hit one another, such that one or more is required to close the gap, and then that gap is re-established following an exchange (think modern boxing, TKD, much of karate, etc). Self-defence wise, it tends to start close (conversation distance) and stay close. Personally, I like to train both, but not all do, and I think it’s a self-evident truth that many today don’t practise close range skills because those skills are not required for the agreed way of fighting. That’s how many arts are practiced today. It’s therefore not inaccurate to observe that a majority (certainly not all) practice their art in a long-range way; irrespective of that way it was practised in the past.
On your martial map, you use martial arts to describe health, culture etc, perhaps it would be better to have another group name like ‘non-combative considerations’ or something, it would be nice if martial arts was reserved for the true sense ie professional military/para-military etc. Enjoyed, thanks.
Finding a common terminology is always tricky. However, I think most people would see military combatives as being quite distinct from martial arts. The vast majority of people who would consider themselves martial artists will also be found outside of any military setting. I’d therefore feel using the term “martial arts” as most do is the simplest way to go. I also feel the “art” part of “martial arts” make clear we are also taking about non-combative considerations.
Pirata Sports...regarding use of the term "professional military/para-military etc." Is the intention to include "Karate" in this exclusive reservation? It is my understanding that the Japanese government, while complimentary of the obvious results from the training, concluded that it would not be a beneficial addition to their "basic" and other military training regimens. It simply took too much dedicated practice to achieve the results. Therefore, it did not gain a place beside the rifle, sword, and spear (bayonet) in their military regimens...
@@joemontague5257 Many modern artists feel that weapons training is to help you get better at empty hand fighting, but historically the reverse is true. This error comes from not discerning the difference between fighting and self-defense. The Ming Dynasty General whose writings eventually became the Bubishi, General Qi Ji Guang, stated in his book "New Book Of Effective Methods" that empty hand martial arts are not useful in battle, but are instead for training basics in preparation for learning weapons. Okinawa was in a unique position because military weapons were outlawed, so they had to use their hands (and some improvised weapons made from farm implements).
Joe Montague No, I’d argue Karate, along with a whole lot of things known as ‘martial arts’ nowadays are not really martial arts in the truest sense of the words.
'blocking is not the primary method' ..; and yet Kenwa Mabuni thought the blocks in the kata were in fact blocks. See his 'Karate Do Nyumon' (1938). And if you look at Choki Motobu's books you see the same thing: blocks are blocks. Mabuni as a close friend of Motobu, BTW, and they trained together.
I think about this a lot as well. Funakoshi and many of those old masters show the most ridiculous interpretations of kata movements you can imagine in their books and video clips. (Someone throws a punch, and you step back, chamber your hands, then perform an up-block all while their hand is two feet away from your head) Things that are laughable if you know anything about combat. It makes me wonder whether they were so determined to keep their true techniques hidden that they didn't mind looking ridiculous, or if they themselves did not know (were never taught) the true interpretation of the techniques.
@Whammer79 I disagree. An untrained person will get their ass handed to them if attacked by a violent criminal. The "will to go into action" means nothing if you don't know what to DO with an attack. The problem with kata is not that people are practicing techniques, it is that they are practicing the WRONG techniques. The examples shown in old karate books are all completely wrong interpretations of the kata movements. They were either hiding the true meaning, or did not know it themselves. The original meanings can, however, be discovered. Everything in the kata means something. It is a language, a secret code. If you pay attention to the direction, angle, stance, arm movements, and gaze, the meaning will often become obvious. Kata is teaching you more complex body movements the same way Chinese Shuai Jiao drill teach you that art today. Watching the Shuai Jiao drills it is not obvious what they are doing. When you see them apply it, they are very effective techniques to unbalance the opponent. I have a channel where I began to attempt to decode the meaning of kata movements called "Decoding Martial Meaning".
I've heard a lot of this before. Seems some things he says are contradictory and need clarification. Like dominate the fight but don't close the gap instead seek shelter. Plus in kata I would train to fight 8 attackers. This is what Itso taught. Matsumura did not invent Bassai for fighting a single attacker. It was to quickly kill as many soldiers as possible and move quickly through their ranks using 3 waza or less.
YOU WROTE: “Seems some things he says are contradictory and need clarification. Like dominate the fight but don't close the gap instead seek shelter.”
I think you may be confusing the two kinds of violence discussed? There is consensual violence (were people agree to fight each other and fight to “win”) and non-consensual violence (self-protection with the goal of avoiding harm from criminal violence). It’s not in the criminal’s interests to raise their guard from 10 feet away and then seek to close that gap, and it’s not in our interest to do the same in the extremely unlikely event that did happen. Criminal violence does not have the same mutually agreed distance as consensual violence (there is no gap to close). It starts close and we seek to dominate in order to facilitate effective escape. There’s not a contradiction there and I hope this helps clarify.
YOU WROTE: “Plus in kata I would train to fight 8 attackers. This is what Itso taught.”
We can and should train to escape groups, but seeking to out fight them would be a grave tactical error. It’s also not what Itosu taught. His own writing is limited, but his number 1 student is widely acknowledged to be Kenwa Mabuni. He wrote the following:
“The meaning of the directions in kata is not well understood, and frequently mistakes are made in the interpretation of kata movements. In extreme cases, it is sometimes heard that "this kata moves in 8 directions so it is designed for fighting 8 opponents" or some such nonsense.” - Karate-Do Nyumon
As we can see, he felt that I the kata against eight people was “nonsense”.
Again, I hope that helps.
All the best,
Iain
@@practicalkatabunkai Then how does it work? I am so confused? I thought karate was for dispatching many foes in a short amount of time. Because the kata was inspired by or at least reinterpreted because of Captain Perry visit to Okinawa. That Matsumura wanted to rescue the king and help him escape if surrounded. I think Jesse the karate nerd said this and remember reading that.
We beat them up and then escape? I guess that makes sense. But if they are beat up I do not really think of that as escaping.
Fighting groups is only a tactical error if they can beat you. I think I might have to save a women, God forbid, if a group are "taking advantage" of her. Unfortunately I would have to put myself in grave danger but I would absolutely hate myself if I sacrificed her just because I was scared of getting hurt. If I rescue her does that make up for it being a tactical error or no? Should I just run away? Can't I just get tough and beat them?
Thanks again sorry for not understanding. Karate is hard.
@@josephmalone253 It’s not possible to cover all of this in a message, but I will do my best.
YOU WROTE: “We beat them up and then escape? I guess that makes sense. But if they are beat up I do not really think of that as escaping.”
The tactics of escape require that they can’t give effective chase. We need to take away their ability or motivation to give chase. If we simply run, they may quickly catch us. If they are disorientated through impact to the head, or less mobile to impact to the legs, then we can more effectively gain and maintain distance. The aim is not to “win the fight” but to ensure effective escape.
Trying to “out fight” a group is not an effective way to achieve the goal of avoiding harm. It’s not impossible, but it’s very difficult and requires a lot of luck (i.e. not a single one of the criminals is able to land an effective shot). Escaping is much more likely to work, but it’s not simply the action of running. There are skills and tactics assorted with effective escape. The live practise of escaping groups is vital if self-protection is an aim.
YOU WROTE: “Fighting groups is only a tactical error if they can beat you.”
It’s still a tactical error even if you get lucky. It’s an unnecessary risk when there are better options available.
YOU WROTE: “If I rescue her does that make up for it being a tactical error or no? Should I just run away?”
If you have others to protect, then you escape with them. Again, this needs trained and drilled live. Staying put and trying to outfight the group puts both of you in a very dangerous situation. While you are dealing with some of the group, the others are free to attack the other person. Both of you need to escape. That’s the best way to help them. Here is video I did on protecting others: ua-cam.com/video/RWYOwdbe4CI/v-deo.html
YOU WROTE: “Can't I just get tough and beat them?”
You need to be both tough and smart. It’s very hard to outfight a group, so the smart thing to do is escape them. This requires skills and practise. Unfortunately, many martial artists reduce escaping to the physical act of “running away”. There’s much more to it than that. The methods we use for one-on-one consensual fighting are a bad fit for this situation. We need to use the right strategy, tactics and methods for the specific goal. We can’t take the methods designed for one context and expect them to work in a very different context with differing goals. Here is another couple of videos that may help:
Context: ua-cam.com/video/Wox8fB1Mdh8/v-deo.html
Multiple Enemies: ua-cam.com/video/apahr0ujVJU/v-deo.html
YOU WROTE: “Thanks again sorry for not understanding.”
No problem at all! These issues are widely misunderstood, and your questions are valid ones.
All the best,
Iain
nice video😊😊. sensei where is
jesse enkamp sensei.
hi is not making video😥😥
Thank you! I'm sure he'll be back ... like me he's a busy guy and sometimes other things need our attention.
@@practicalkatabunkai thanks for reply😊😊😀
Faiaj Hossain Jesse-San is busy working on editing his new series “the karate nerd in China” due for release sometime next year.
@@jamesnewman6032 thanks for reply. i hope he well come back soon.😊😊😊
👏🙌👏✌️❤️📝Excellent...
"By-product" is not a myth, Iain. It may not be as effective as some people think, but is very far removed from being a "myth". Ever heard of something called the "Kano Paradox"?
I think you may be missing the point I am making. It’s not just about safety restrictions. My take on that can be found here: iainabernethy.co.uk/content/banned-methods If you listen to it, you will hear I agree that training live in a “safe” way will result in more efficiency than training “dangerous” techniques in a way that is never live. However, the “by-product myth” is much wider than that and definitely remains a myth. It’s an overarching shift in goals, strategy, tactics and choice of technique (before we even discuss how we train). Training for specifically for Goal A will result in in a greater ability to achieve Goal A than training specifically for Goal B due to the limited cross over to Goal A. The myth is a myth.
I'm sorry I slipped your arm out of the way and hit you in the head. It's a habit I've got..... Really bloody funny. Must use that in class (with your permission Iain ? Obviously I will give you the credit - or perhaps blame you lol)
And if your Dojo calls itself “ traditional, but only does HALF of this…..???
I can see how you arrived at your theory but it is based on a lack of or a limited amount of the true knowledge of karate and karate kata. As one man said a little bit of knowledge is dangerous.
Enlighten me O’ Sensei!
What you are doing is solely based on the limited amount of skill and knowledge you have on kata and it’s application. I applaud you for what you are doing but it is missing the true Mark! In order to truly defeat an opponent you must “must” understand the anatomy and how to attack it! If I were going deer hunting I should know the best places to shot the deer to be able to put it down with one shot! So why don’t we have that type of knowledge in our fighting style when we are attacked by violent aggressive people! I want to be able to drop them in one shot! And that is the heart of karate! Otherwise it is no different from all the other garbage that people are teaching for self defense! The kata is a to the master a road map of the human body to the novice it is an enigma! You can’t see it because no one ever told you, but now I am telling you! The katas are “how to”instructional road maps to attack the vital areas of the human body! All those weird looking moves are attacks to the various systems and structures of the body and their various weak spots. Fore example most karate kata begin with the two fist down out in front of you, yes! Okay that is an attack to the femoral triangle of an opponent who has come up in front of you right in your face! And since you don’t know what the femoral triangle is like me enlighten you! It is one of the most vital areas in the human body in the top middle of each leg, right and left, where only a thin layer of skin and body tissue covers three (3) very vital areas of the human body! Which are the femoral artery, femoral vein and the femoral nerve! To find it, like in any kata that does a horse stance, take your fingers and reach inside your upper thigh into the area inside the muscle tissue of the thigh and feel for a pulse. If you find it that is the femoral triangle. One shot there and down you go because your blood pressure will drop instantly. So imagine being punched there on both sides with a powerful karate punch, down you would go. Fight over in less than a second! That is the true power of KARATE!
@@dexterbrown8332 I disagree. I have knowledge of that approach but reject it practically and historically. You are free to practise karate your own way, as am I. I chose not to practice that way based on experience and education, not a lack thereof. Again, this article will help you and others reading understand why I reject that approach: www.iainabernethy.co.uk/article/pressure-points-sceptical-examination
Be blessed my friend!
@@dexterbrown8332 You too and thanks for chatting and adding to the thread.