At 37:31 I think the defender was anticipating contact trying to take the charge. The fact that the contact didn't occur made it look like a flop. I like the no call.
The play from the IHSA state game toward the end of the video to me is just a player falling. We also need to realize falling is ok to prevent injuries. When i was growing up, our middle school coach taught us how to fall to prevent landing wrong or anything that could potentially cause injury. I understand this new flopping rule but like you mentioned early in the video "overtly" is the key for me. 9 times out of 10 you will know when a kid is flopping. If there is any kind of contact, it cannot be a flop unless the player is obviously (overtly) faking being fouled. Just because an athlete "could land" doesnt mean they arent allowed to fall. I think it matters how they fall and if their body language suggests they are "faking". These are good videos for review, thank you for putting these out there. Love reviewing film to get better!
Body mechanics. #15 got hit on his right shoulder and his body spun to the right. He is allowed to brace himself for contact (leaning in). I would say charge. Granted not directly into defense's torso, but enough contact occurred to spin the defender.
It’s what you see at full speed is what it is. We don’t get to rewind the play 10 times in slo-mo in a game. What everyone’s call was when the video was shown is the call. We can’t see the contact up top and the legs at contact simultaneously like in slo-mo
Some calls in real time are decided by context and not by the written rule. I clearly did a poor job expressing that sentiment. I’ll work harder to be more clear.
How can you say he was in a legal guarding position, that by rule it was a charge and then question flopping? If it is a flop, it can't be a charge. Flopping is faking, not exaggerating
Great to see your vids for the new season Josh! Two questions on the fast break flop/no flop play (#2): 1. You said ball handler wasn't contacted, but it looks like there is lower leg contact by the defender which caused the ball handler to twist a bit in the air, perhaps even causing the miss? But you would have had a good look at that from the C, so you say no contact there? 2. As for whose call that is, even though it's on the C side of the basket line, because it's a play in transition, isn't that 100% the Lead's call since it's at the front of the pack of players? (of course, if the Lead misses it, the C can get it though)
Transition plays are really addressed by NFHS, as far as coverage so the answer is harder to reference. Generally speaking, you are correct, the lead takes the action leading the play.
At 51:30 (play in the paint), couldn't we make the case to call a defensive foul to protect an airborne shooter? Even though the shooter came down clean, the defender definitely created contact and came into the shooter's landing area. If we move that shot out beyond the 3point line and watch the shooter go up, release, and come down, I think most officials would call it a foul.
We appear to be viewing video to decide what is a flop. The flop rule has not changed. Only the adjudication with warning. There is no mandate that we must call a flop. In my opinion, if we passed on it before we should pass on it now.
The rule has expanded into a wider net because the NFHS added NEW this year a definition to faking being fouled, giving more direction as to what they want us to consider when ruling on such action. So it has indeed changed, for the better.
The play that immediately came to me when I first heard of the new warning was 2 defensive flops on the same play with no previous warning and I can’t find a video with it. Since there was no official warning, can there be a “T” Thanks
If offense flops, we kill it, but you go to the possession arrow, unless it’s on a shot and it goes in, count the basket , then defense gets a non designated spot throw in
Play 1 is a PCF as legal guarding position was established and maintained. A warning for flopping is optional and can be justified. This ain’t NO block.
On the play at the 45 minute mark, what happens if the shot goes in as the flop is called on the shooter? Does the basket stand or is it taken off? Thanks.
With play number 1. I feel like this is the type of play that the new wording is trying to address. He has legal guarding position so it can't be a block but we would call it that because he obviously fell down on purpose. He did embellish his reaction to the contact. Isn't this why we should give the warning now?
If it is to get “the big ones” and the defender didn’t take the flop to the floor so not a flop, is a head bob on a dribbler in previous clip not a flop. He didn’t take it to stopping his dribble
The facebook play at halfcourt is a block,,,can't be a player control as it was not torso to torso and the offensive player got his head and shoulder past the defender so the defender has to let him go. Block since there is contact.
Flop play #1... This is bad advice. You do NOT call a block that is not a block. If you think a player has LGP, a block is not an option. If it is a flop, call it as such. That said, I think it was a block...the player started with LGP but extended his shoulder outside of his position, negating LGP, making it a block. Call it right...don't make stuff up.
![Mastering Tough Calls: 5 Plays That Challenge Every Basketball Referee! 🏀👀 [Ep. 5PF-2403]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ai9QwD-unN0/mqdefault.jpg)
I really learned a lot from this, Thank you so much Josh.
Thanks for watching.
At 37:31 I think the defender was anticipating contact trying to take the charge. The fact that the contact didn't occur made it look like a flop. I like the no call.
Thanks for your input.
That was great stuff…Thank You✌🏽🏀
You’re welcome.
The play from the IHSA state game toward the end of the video to me is just a player falling. We also need to realize falling is ok to prevent injuries. When i was growing up, our middle school coach taught us how to fall to prevent landing wrong or anything that could potentially cause injury. I understand this new flopping rule but like you mentioned early in the video "overtly" is the key for me. 9 times out of 10 you will know when a kid is flopping. If there is any kind of contact, it cannot be a flop unless the player is obviously (overtly) faking being fouled. Just because an athlete "could land" doesnt mean they arent allowed to fall. I think it matters how they fall and if their body language suggests they are "faking".
These are good videos for review, thank you for putting these out there. Love reviewing film to get better!
Thanks for your input.
Body mechanics. #15 got hit on his right shoulder and his body spun to the right. He is allowed to brace himself for contact (leaning in). I would say charge. Granted not directly into defense's torso, but enough contact occurred to spin the defender.
Thanks for sharing
35:10 im not sure there is no contact at all xD
thanks for watching
47:46 obvious charge
another
It’s what you see at full speed is what it is. We don’t get to rewind the play 10 times in slo-mo in a game. What everyone’s call was when the video was shown is the call. We can’t see the contact up top and the legs at contact simultaneously like in slo-mo
Yep. Real time decisions need to be made confidently.
Play 1 you started with "this is not a block" and then ended with "I think I'm calling a block."
Some calls in real time are decided by context and not by the written rule. I clearly did a poor job expressing that sentiment. I’ll work harder to be more clear.
How can you say he was in a legal guarding position, that by rule it was a charge and then question flopping? If it is a flop, it can't be a charge. Flopping is faking, not exaggerating
The word “exaggerated” is literally within the definition.
Great to see your vids for the new season Josh! Two questions on the fast break flop/no flop play (#2):
1. You said ball handler wasn't contacted, but it looks like there is lower leg contact by the defender which caused the ball handler to twist a bit in the air, perhaps even causing the miss? But you would have had a good look at that from the C, so you say no contact there?
2. As for whose call that is, even though it's on the C side of the basket line, because it's a play in transition, isn't that 100% the Lead's call since it's at the front of the pack of players? (of course, if the Lead misses it, the C can get it though)
Transition plays are really addressed by NFHS, as far as coverage so the answer is harder to reference. Generally speaking, you are correct, the lead takes the action leading the play.
"Incidental contact" will be our favorite term!
Agreed
At 51:30 (play in the paint), couldn't we make the case to call a defensive foul to protect an airborne shooter? Even though the shooter came down clean, the defender definitely created contact and came into the shooter's landing area. If we move that shot out beyond the 3point line and watch the shooter go up, release, and come down, I think most officials would call it a foul.
Maybe. And the officials did rule this a foul. Great video to spur conversation.
We appear to be viewing video to decide what is a flop. The flop rule has not changed. Only the adjudication with warning. There is no mandate that we must call a flop. In my opinion, if we passed on it before we should pass on it now.
The rule has expanded into a wider net because the NFHS added NEW this year a definition to faking being fouled, giving more direction as to what they want us to consider when ruling on such action. So it has indeed changed, for the better.
22:00 this is a charge.
there can be no flop after a charge.
There is a charge, and you call a block because there is a flop ? this is non sensical
Agreed. Opinions change. TY
The play that immediately came to me when I first heard of the new warning was 2 defensive flops on the same play with no previous warning and I can’t find a video with it.
Since there was no official warning, can there be a “T”
Thanks
Great question. Not sure if the answer but I think the spirit of the rule would lean toward a warning.
37:50 obvious flop
thnx
If offense flops, we kill it, but you go to the possession arrow, unless it’s on a shot and it goes in, count the basket , then defense gets a non designated spot throw in
you got it
Play 1 is a PCF as legal guarding position was established and maintained. A warning for flopping is optional and can be justified. This ain’t NO block.
So this has nothing to do with flopping but I been through your catalog and I can’t find a hesi (hesitation) dribble video. Do you hand one I missed?
Fan of the flopping rule, but implementation is going to be incredibly messy, which is going to cause issues and a ton of issues.
Agreed!
51:35 obvious foul on shooter
you've been busy. ha. thanks for watching.
We have a player on the floor on Play #1 PCF.
thanks for your comment
On the play at the 45 minute mark, what happens if the shot goes in as the flop is called on the shooter? Does the basket stand or is it taken off? Thanks.
Basket counts.
How do we get in on these zoom calls?
Become an OI Member by clicking this link:
officialsinstitute.org/dues
With play number 1. I feel like this is the type of play that the new wording is trying to address. He has legal guarding position so it can't be a block but we would call it that because he obviously fell down on purpose. He did embellish his reaction to the contact. Isn't this why we should give the warning now?
You may be right.
If it is to get “the big ones” and the defender didn’t take the flop to the floor so not a flop, is a head bob on a dribbler in previous clip not a flop. He didn’t take it to stopping his dribble
We'll see how it all plays out.
The facebook play at halfcourt is a block,,,can't be a player control as it was not torso to torso and the offensive player got his head and shoulder past the defender so the defender has to let him go. Block since there is contact.
appreciate the input
Is it a technical foul per pregame dunk or one technical foul for the team because of dunking?
It is a team technical foul per each dunk.
Does an offensive flop on a shot cause an immediate dead ball that nullifies the shot or is it dead ball after the shot is made or missed.
If the offense flops on a try for goal and it goes in, the basket counts.
@@OfficialsInstitute Josh, this is the same question I had. Is that documented or is a case anywhere?
@@robgray_ www.nfhs.org/media/7213020/faking-being-fouled-best-practices.pdf
No way can a player extend boths hands to create space. Plus the offender kick out his leg to create contact
Thanks for watching.
Play 2 we have Austin Reeves in the game.
Thanks for watching
This video is brought to you by the LA Lakers.
Ha
Flop play #1... This is bad advice. You do NOT call a block that is not a block. If you think a player has LGP, a block is not an option. If it is a flop, call it as such. That said, I think it was a block...the player started with LGP but extended his shoulder outside of his position, negating LGP, making it a block.
Call it right...don't make stuff up.
thanks for your input
43:20 obvious flop
great