One of the first New Atheist UA-camrs. Hasn't learned anything since and is still parroting old talking points that are often laughed out of Philosophy 101 courses.
@@northernlight8857 😂😂😂 so they didnt get him to admit there was a necessary being, something he denied an hour earlier. you athiests are pathetic, you would act like you won even after getting knocked out.
I think he just was in his battle mode vs "texas fundamentalist apologist" and that he isn't very versed in philosophy. As for the argument if there is anecessary being and if it has to be concious and so forth is another discussion.
AaronRa: "You misrepresented me for the past X minutes!" Abdul: "How?" AaronRa: "I can't remember, it was too fast." How do people take this charlatan seriously?
Its unbelievable that someone accepts all the chain of reasoning and go where it leads and when he reaches the end and see the logical implications of it. He just rejects it without giving any reason.
@@Azrdraco they seem to think so. they literally spend all their time trying to make fun of atheists and mock them. there is not much sincere hope to talk, just a desire to make themselves look like winners and philosophers. once again, the ego is huge and the evidence is zero. apparently the more riddles and nonsensical philosophical theories used the more god is real. NOT! I think its rude how dismissive and stuck up these dudes are with a few months of philosophy courses and now they think they are the next socrates. they have the same arguments each time that dont explain their side at all but can not be defeated due to their lack of actual reasoning. they really think they are deeply wise and that they have learned all they need to know. the generations of today that dont value those who have more life experience who may have insights to share. a sense of entitlement and self centered ness which when coupled with a religion turns into these patronizing speeches that they cant patiently listen but must interject their opinion. they never actually answer questions that require facts or sound proof, there is always a way to avoid this. in islam in particular i have notice apologetics talking down at a childlike level, finishing their sentences with"you see" or "understand" or "yes?" like they are teaching fools. Islam is a religion that demands a person deny themselves, use fear and punishment, threatens their followers, devalues half the population, seeks violence and suffering, hates this group and that, insists they control others, has copied from earlier religions and has no basis to believe it is true, promotes victimizing kids, females, gays, and free thinkers, and terrorizing people around the world. the god in that religion is horrible, a hypocrite, a hateful sadist with no mercy and no tolerance. there is a mental break in believers to want to be part of this religion. they are not of the same species as me, i find them to be a damage to our world and they ruin life around them. i would rather never have to hear about religions and god and rules imposed that are ignorant and bigotted. may that religion and others like it fade into oblivion and disappear forever.
Sure, and we should commend his composure for the argument to get as far it did. But at the same time, he has this tiny bit of alpha male stuff going on, where although he wants to accept arguments if they make sense, but he doesn't want to be seen as 'conceding' things to theists because he wants to be able to continue his new atheist rhetoric. He may believe that even granting the validity of a theistic argument will mean that he has lost too much ground. Also, he seems just too frustrated with the theists to have a philosophical conversation with them. He was just sitting there like "I know that you're trying to trick me, I just need to catch you when you do." He won't be able to sustain a conversation, entertain claims and engage in hypotheticals like a philosophical atheist (like Oppy) would be able to. So although his behavior was commendable, I doubt he comes back for round two.
I kinda attribute Jake's silence on this stream to his recent discussion with Vin. I mean, you can imagine how traumatizing it is to have to encounter two such persons in a row.
@@ponderingspirit yeah. And Aaron was trying so hard not to present a definite epistemology for his position as a hard atheist (maybe in fear of being cornered by it), but despite that, the brothers (particularly Jake's final entery) led him to concede to a necessary foundation of reality.
great discussion, it just shows how the atheistic community is willing to embrace these , with due respect, pseudo-intellectuals who are ignorant of even the basics of philosophy
@space juice There is also a lot of superiority complex. They think that people with faith can't think. I agree that some people are not as rational or as rigorous when it comes to using their intellect but these people are in both atheistic and faith based communities and likewise would be for the opposite kind of people. That's why we should all respect eachother and realize that having knowledge doesn't make us superior to anyone or anything. May Allah preserve us and guide us to beneficial Knowledge (Ameen)
I don't believe in any religions, but I have to agree to this. Aron Ra was acting as though he already has knowledge of what everyone is thinking or going to think. This debate was hard to watch because of his arrogance and ignorance.
@@BruteFactsPodcast Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allah, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims." Quran 3 64
In the end of the discussion, Aron basically admitted he believes in a necessary existence through accepting PSR and contingent things requiring an explanation outside itself, but he knows fully admitting that intellectually will hurt his brand so he had to double down and guess what he had to say in the end? I DON'T KNOW. So he was an agnostic fronting like an hard atheist? This is what you call a charlatan hard athiest who can't even defend his own assertion. Hard atheism is his belief without any reason and he believes it because he believes it, not because he knows it. The very thing he was trying to accuse theist of doing.
first of all, he did not admitted he believes in necessary existence, he says it is 'possible' that it exists as equally as it is 'possible' that unicorns exists. it is a baseless assertion without any evidence and he keeps repeating the same thing because its TRUE. He actively denies the existence any textbook god because those textbooks are as flawed and as the people of the time those books were written in. Three people making him say that the possibility of an abstract idea exists proves sh*t. And as long as we are talking about possibility, Y'all have to also admit to the possibility of there not being any such existent. That's how possibility works. But you can't do it, can you ?
@@chikatichaitanya8827 you forgot he claimed to be a hard atheist. He can't double down to "its possible". So you clearly don't know what you arguing against
@@Edward-bm7vw but your perspective of evidence for your worldview is subjective to you based on your own personal presuppositions. The real question is what presuppositions support your worldview?
Around 49:00 Aron Ra says philosophy should be taught in highschool but it should be controlled on now it's taught? So essentially Aron Ra is okay indoctrinating as long it's his own view. So much for atheist being such free thinkers
.... If only you heard his next phrase where he said "..because it is so grossly misused by religious apologists" indicating that he is trying to avoid indoctrination. I don't get how this comment has likes.
@@Gxlto He implied he wants to take it to the opposite side, essentially "Take control from the theist and give it to the atheists so THEY can do the indoctrination"¨ I understand why this comment has no likes LOL
@@whoswho2215 No he didn't imply that with that phrase nor could he ever. The phrase was only mentioning the theists' abuse. You and/or the original commenter might've assumed that but that's unfounded. Aron has been promoting secular education forever. Besides, what would "take control from the theist and give it to the atheist so they can do it the indoctrination" be like? Religious apologists and fundamentalist schools always promote their alternative facts to support their favourite fable. Atheists have no need for that. We only rely on the unmet burden of proof. Information is our friend. An atheist who doesn't know about God is no use since they can be converted in no time. So, in summary, aron would never do that and there wouldn't be something to do anyway.
@@PabloSensei For all I know, no. I'm not aware of anything being imposed similarly to dogma. Please define "secular humanist rules" since, although I dont identify as humanist,I have reason to think that the phrase is problematic and show why you think they are dogma. I also dont remember the comment I wrote above so I have no idea how this is relevant to the subject but why not talk about it
@@Im_Hugh_Jass Aron and his fans don’t really understand philosophy of science/biology etc or philosophy in general. So I wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t understand what is going on and how he got finished.
The only "dismantling" that happened, was to these amateur,incompetent wannabes that engage in circle arguments and to black people and other small brained idiots,they see that as "victory".Pathetic.
I cant believe how this guy holds these views but cannot substantiate any of them. Then when hes told to prove his position he starts to cry and say you're misrepresenting me. Aron got intellectually owned by @thoughtadventurepodcast !! Great job guys!! Keep it up Mashallah!
What was funny when he accused them of misrepresenting his beliefs. Abdul asked him can you show me where we misrepresented you ….. he was like I didn’t take notes and were speaking fast. Lmbo
"...philosophical conversations are just completely lost on me..." Yes Aron. Yes they are. Philosophical atheists agree with you on this specific point.
Usually because it often argues by analogy and rhetoric, and often not on ibservation or evidence. A proof can be definitrly true in mathematics because maths isn't chaotic, while abstract ideas like general relativity (explaining gravity) or evolution (explaining biodiversity, mostly on Earth) have demonstrated to be true; maths is robust enough to be so certain, while general relativity and evolution are so mathematically dynamic and chaotic that to be a valuable scientific idea is to be continuously "not proven to be false" throughout the idea's lifespan. At least, that is what I think is going on when we adapt theories like evolution (to which I would clarify that "theory" is a word that has a different meaning, than its colloquial use as a synonym of "idea" or "plan").
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric bro, I’ve told you in multiple comment section that your are misrepresenting there argument (Strawmam) which is a logical fallacy. This is not the Kalam; this is the contingency they have different premises and conclusions.
Not exactly, anyone who uses philosophy to justify magic is intellectually dishonest. Hiding behind Philosophy is the only way they can get away with it.
Well done brothers. I encourage you not to rub this in Aaron's face and to keep your intentions sincere. What we want is to walk him through the reasoning and if Allah wills he will change his mind. I commend Aaron for remaining civil and hope he is open to exploring a stage 2 argument concerning the nature of the necessary being.
You guys made a cogent, intelligently executed argument but Aron was merely interested in chomping at the red meat i-e to hurl insults & well rehearsed one-liners towards Islam...so thank you for not letting him satisfy his hunger
What a close minded indecisive individual. Big up the brothers for their patience. It's difficult for Aron to agree because of his current situation he's too defensive to get anywhere imo.
I love this show I can’t lie. I know we have some back and forth in the chats but you 3 on stage I respect. I don’t always respect the chat audience but you 3 are sharp and good to listen to.
Almost felt sorry for Aron. The whole conversation went straight over his smug head. Don't think he understood anything the brother were discussing. They spent 80% of the conversation explaining the question and then re-explaining it, like you would with a 5 year old. Kept contradicting himself and due to his arrogance he didn't even realise he was doing it. Aron need to stick to debating kids so he can feel intelligent.
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric what kind of idiotic statement is that. If they don't come to a common understanding of the defenition then the convo is going to go nowhere. Either you agree on it or you don't but you don't say you stick to yours and I'll stick to mine but let's carry on discussing the topic. Just shows you lot are either insincere or just plain stupid.
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric facts are observable data. What is said about Aron Ra from the people in this post that oppose your opinion are facts because they relate to verifiable data and is repeated able replayable. For example I played this interview over and over for the last 4 days and each time Aron Ra says " A Necessary being exists" That was the question in this debate, so question answered all parties conclude that a necessary existence Necessarily exists. with the conclusion reached by the TAP team and Aron Ra. You yourself either also conclude the end result or you don't. I'd say you'd be the only person I have seen atheist or otherwise that disagrees with the logical conclusion of a necessary being.
Because he doesnt know anything about philosophy, and these guys kept throwing jargon in their definition. Cringeworthy to watch someone use the word 'ontological' to a guy that obviously has never spent a day in a philosophy classroom.
@@flashg3292 they weren't throwing anything at him. I'm no philosopher but I even I understood what they were saying and the defenitions they were putting forward. Discussions like these, ideas and words need to be defined for a common understanding and a better discussion. If he didn't agree with a defenition he could have argued his own but the man was that stupid that almost everything went straight over his head.
As a non-theist, I have to say, Aron was utterly obliterated. - Is there a necessary being: Yes 1 min later: - Is there a necessary being: No I admire Aron's work regarding evolution, but when it comes to philosophy it's just bizarre. He basically was just pulling stuff out of his anti-creationist script, which didn't answer questions posed to him, expecting it'd be good enough. Kudos for Muslim guys for being patient and consistent.
@@aseelsabah9211 I did, but it was long time ago. In a nutshell, Subboor got destroyed because he was basically redefining stuff so evolution no longer means evolution, right?
I knew from suboors and aron’s debate that aron has little to no knowledge of islam and philosophy. However, this debate exposed his ignorance even further to the point he shot himself in his foot.
🎤 drop at the hour mark, Aaron threw up his hand because he knew that matter and energy is not contingent and that it's a necessity. Half of the arguments went over Aaron head and he couldn't understand simple concepts. So sad.
"Aaron threw up his hand because he knew that matter and energy is not contingent and that it's a necessity." Did you mean to say matter and energy are contingent and not necessary?
@@peacebeuntoyou8934 No in that part of the discussion he (unbeknownst to himself) was actually conceding that matter and energy is the necessary being in his paradigm because she clearly stated a philosophical nothingness is impossible. When he then realised the implications of what he said and that is a) he conceded to their being a necessary being which is a big no no for these internet atheists and that b) his model of matter and energy being necessary was going to be quickly dismantled in an embarrassing manner, he backtracked completely, changed the subject and basically disappeared in a magical act that would put Houdini to shame lol
I don’t think people realize how much of an annihilation this was. The errors which Aaron made are too much to list. Hats off to all the brothers, you guys did tremendous MashAllah, May Allah accept it from you Ameen
@@bustinjieber2673 it’s called using logic to figure out what the best explanation of the reality around us is Can you please show me the inconsistency in the following argument... 1) everything around us is physical and composed of dependant parts 2) hence reality needs a necessary foundation which all dependant things depend upon 3) this necessary foundation by definition is independent or else we would have a man infinite regress of dependant realities And the afterwards we can discuss the attributes of this necessary being. But I just wanted to show you how it’s not wishful thinking nor are we inferring things without prior logical and coherent propositions
@@bustinjieber2673 btw don’t use the Aaron Ra arguement of “no supernatural thing is proven hence doesn’t exist” the guy was absolutely rinsed in this discussion, I’d like to think that you’re at least a bit more smarter in philosophy than Aaron can ever dream of being. Don’t just regurgitate what you’re apologists utter, because some of it is just embarrassing
@@bustinjieber2673 all I’m saying is that a necessary foundation/being/reality is the most logical conclusion for the dependant realities we see around us. Once we agree on that we can discuss what the nature of this necessary thing is by using more logic and reason (not wishful thinking)
@@bustinjieber2673 what does supernatural mean? It means anything outside our universe. Since our universe as a whole is made from dependant parts, that entails this necessary foundation is outside the universe and hence supernatural You atheists really need to think these basic propositions through. I mean, this is basic philosophy
Gents, firstly - I genuinely appreciate that you're having these conversations with well known YT Atheists. Kudos to all concerned. Secondly, I've some suggestions: Yours are philosophical arguments. So either: agree, before the debates - some language/phrase terminology & their meaning in the context of the debate & topic. Or Debate Atheists that are also well versed in the philosophical way, in which to have these debates. It would save time, allow all involved to use their valuable time, more efficiently and this would potentially create more impact/value, to the debate. That said, keep going gents. Its an interesting podcast.
God is not merely a metaphysical or philosophical question, as you demonstrated so eloquently, it’s a question of reason. This is attainable without any formalist training, but we come to common terms as Allah has instructed. Mash’ Allah!
My favourite argument as a layman is, How can something so complex come into existence by chance that our great science and super technology can't even imagine to copy?
@@jenskarlsson9775 Exactly, and then when you think about it.. Something so complex such as life, must be "made" by someone even more complex as logic intails. Now how did that ultra complex being came into being? You could argue that the ultra complex being always existed, so we can say that engery/mass always existed and life happens with they covert into one another.. It doesn't have to be a intelligent being as life is pretty baseless.
I'm not Muslim but I do believe you guys really put him on the spot and had him backtracking to where he wanted to put the focus back on you guys because he did not know how to respond to your rational questions. He usually tries to bully theists who debate with him by trying to put them on the spot on what they believe and mock them when they're confused. Interesting topic and discussion. God bless.
Aron ra wanted the conversation to go something like this. Ra: Do you believe there is a God? Team: yes Ra: You believe in magic But he didn't realise our amazing brothers could completely expose the fact that Aron Ra has no ability to reason and nor does he have any understand that words have very specific meanings in certain context
I'm about 15 mins in, and I don't think Aron is getting destroyed. I think Abdul and Sharif are kinda arguing in rhetorical battery, where you talk for such a long time that the opposite person listening is overwhelmed. And because it's overwhelming and exhausting even for me with a pause button, it reads to me as a dishonest debate tactic in person (if a teacher did this in a class, the students are in the right to not know what the hell the teacher just said). Also I can agree Aron's points come off like he's reading from a script (I like his videos and can pick up some repetitive phrases), but I think that's an artifact of developing and exercising these arguments for over 20 years.
"what proof is there for god?" "You have to prove there is no evidence." "No, because I don't believe it. I welcome the opportunity to listen to your evidence." "Nope, too bad, you can't disprove it, so it must be true." By that logic, I'm 12 feet tall. You can't disprove it.
Aron ra was intellectually destroyed in this. My prediction is that he probably will not come on for part 2 because it will potentially hurt his brand. He will rather continue to double down on his weak "criticisms of the Quran" narrative and just sit in his echo chamber of islamophobes and exmuslims. I hope I am wrong and he actually comes on for part 2.
yeah obviously, he had no objections all the way through the train of thought about contingent things requring an explanation outside itself but psychologically he doesn't want to admit to the possibility of a logical necessity. This would really hurt his brand as a hard athiest. I think he was expecting Islamic polemics or something as he tried so hard to bait them, but it clearly didn't work
@@northernlight8857 proof? Aaron actually got destroyed by Muslims if you genuinely believe that a god doesn't exist just because we can't see it is pretty lame from atheists like you. Your hate of religion is based on bias and not actually critical and factual arguments. All I gotta say is. Atheists never win against religious people and this debate was genuinely won by Muslims.
Does anyone remember Thunderf00t? What happened to him? Back in those days, theists weren't challenging the Atheistic paradigm or rather had poor arguments, but now it seems the times are shifting.
The best part was when Aron mentioned Muslims believing in magic by equating it with miracles and Brother Sharif flipped it with logical entailment of the argument presented leads to Aron appealing to magic.
Arons problem is, that he doesn't understand the philosophical basis for his own ontological and epistemological positions and doesn't seem to want to understand them. That was very clear, when Abdul Rahman gave a very precise description of his philosophical inconsistencies and Aron dismissed everything he said and seemed to actually believe, that his views were being misrepresented completely, which goes to show, that he has no idea about the philosophical basis for his own beliefs.
1. incredibly impressed with the argument representing a belief in God as a non believer 2. I’ve heard of Aaron Ra before however found him disappointing. didn’t look like he wanted be there. was condescending and didn’t try to win hearts and minds to his position. , just regurgitating the same argument without trying to rephrase or better articulate his position. 3. Fair play however to Aaron Ra for taking on 3 dissenting views on their turf, despite the fact he was a bit of a wet lettuce well done fellas. im not normally a fan of God debates but really enjoyed your methodology
This was an absolute intellectual pounding for Aronra, typical dogmatic atheistic sophism, he was completely abandoning his intellect to hold on to his irrational worldview.
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric The name of the discussion was ‘Does a necessary being exist’ Aron conceded that their has to be a necessary being and then went back on it. I don’t know how much more dishonest you can get. Also they didn’t lure him under a false premise, Aron clearly came on to make emotional arguments and he couldn’t handle real philosophy. Once again the dogmatic atheists embarrassing themselves with their philosophical incompetence.
I thought Mohammed Hijab & co were the only brothers in the intelligent debate scene, but Alhamdulillah, what a pleasure it has been discovering not one, but THREE brothers with such amazing synergy, articulation skills, and of humble characters. You demonstrated so many great qualities of being a Muslim, while at the same time emanating deep intelligence ❤
@@PabloSensei I'm tempted to agree, but Mohammed Hijab has covered soo many other mainstream topics that it's not a fair comparison. These brothers are Alhamdulillah amazing at logic at an academic level, and explaining it with great examples, while Mohammed Hijab foucses on all sorts of societal topics. Both are great in their own ways :)
May Allah bless and protect the brothers and give Aron hidaya ameen. mashaAllah Sharif is so underrated love how clearly he breaks things down and easy to follow
how hysterical, aron ra makes alot of errors in his reasoning and when called upon them he dismiss the metric they use to determine it, philosphy out the window, logic out the window, definitions out the window, and then........ plays the misrepresented victim card. damn
Notice that Aron only wanted to come back under his own terms, which is why he wants to just ask you guys believe what you believe and he has no burden to explain why he believes what he believes (which didn’t seem like he really even knew after these guys exposed him)
Aaron already locked his mindset thinking that necessary being is God. He went straight to the meat without proper thought of process and thinking these Muslims try to trick him into believing in God. The problem is with Aaron. MashaAllah you guys are awesome. May Allah bless you all.
Wallahi you guys did a great job. I find it a sad reality that muslims and theists must treat these men (or children) with kitty gloves while they are the most smug, rude, and incendiary of people. From his shirt to his demeanor hes an off putting person. Alhamdulillah for the patience of these brothers. These people truly are insufferable and only based on emotion and petulance
@@swediauntukanda1736 Sure, check my playlist Some Evidence for Islam. In particular start out with the video by Islamic Calling in there called "Apostate Prophet Exposed Part 3". Skip the silly opening, but watch the first 25 mins and turn on the subtitles. It analyzes historical evidence that a supernatural being gave the Quran to Prophet Muhammad(SAW).
To be honest, Aron Ra was seemed like a person of integrity. He agreed to points which he initially thought was wrong. Credit to him as well as the brothers.
His integrity started to unfortunately disintegrate around the 45 minute mark until he left where he realised what was happening and decided to backtrack, change the subject and basically disappear rather than concede or give a meaningful rebuttal but yes, until then he was doing quite well.
Masha Allah this is the best argument for Muslims to learn about nature of ALLAH SWT = AS-Samaad =The Necessary Being Eternal Uncreated Uncaused Cause, Excellent Job
Aron literally did the Patrick is this your wallet meme. He was agreeing with the train of logic but when it came to the conclusion he suddenly denies it.
Aronra was ripped to shreds here… sheesh, he was pounded so hard he didn’t realise he was suffering internal bleeding. You could almost see the blood dripping from his ears 😂
Used to think Aron was actually intelligent, but eventually figured that is how he likes to portray himself. The more I listen to him the dumber he reveals himself to be. Add to that a childish ego. He doesn't mind straw-manning others and does it constantly but gets very defensive when he is steel-manned.
Believer of what? Nobody's going to get to a belief in Allah through reasoning and intelligence. You can have interesting philosphical arguments about whether 'god' exists, but there is no logical stepping stone from that to a belief in the God of the Bible or Quran.
Only your Maker can perfectly cover for you Himself and remake you again from the inside out by the power of His true word as no one else can. Salvation is through sanctification by the Spirit and believing what is true.
The sheer arrogance from Aron is unreal, truly blind from the heart. But at least we're getting somewhere when he said he believes in a necessary "thing" but he's got a serious psychological aversion to the metaphysical. His world view is the problem. I pray that he has a change of heart one day iA.
After listening so far, I think you will not be able to understand his epistemological framework, because he has none. He has repertoire of defensive arguments, that he has acquired that he uses to justify. Very embarrassing, but very predictable. I was hoping for more. I was an atheist for over two decade and, imo, Aron unfortunately represents, majority of atheist; they are essentially socialized atheist.
May Allah be merciful and guide him. Please guys don't insult our job is to convey the message. The rest is upto Allah. A small insult can be misguidance. Allah Hu Allam
I used to think Aron Ra is an intelligent man but obviously he is not. All he does is dismiss and refuse to discuss that which he doesn't like or that which might expose him.
The more one watches these kind of programmes, the clearer it becomes how intellectually bankrupt some atheists are. They are brave and loud when they are in their echo chambers, but the house crumbles when you put the slightest of pressure on it... like a spider's web.
One of the first New Atheist UA-camrs.
Hasn't learned anything since and is still parroting old talking points that are often laughed out of Philosophy 101 courses.
Exactly. Most of the time, he didn’t have a clue of what the brothers were saying.
Jazakallahu Khairun Ustad Asadullah.
Aron ra at this point is just defending whats left of his brand. He couldnt even hold his own on a podcast? Pathetic
It's funny how theists put their fingers in their ears constantly to protect their flimsy belief system
@@seionne85 You made a mistake. You forgot to put the letter A before "theists".
Questioning what his epistemological framework is just flew over his head right of the bat
I have seen his debates with Subboor and I knew it would be really difficult for him to understand philosophy.
Jazakallahu Kahirun for your work. May Allah accept it and give you success in this life and the next. Ameen.
I have spoken to many atheist and either they evade these types of discussions or act like it doesn't make sense regardless of how it is explained
@@commandar88 That is the their common "argument". They do the tasbeeh of "science" all day.
Bro when are you going to upload new videos ☻
I think Aron's arguments were like his green screen, derelict
Lmao
@TT Step out of your bubble mate. Aron was trying to shoehorn his usual script against YEC into a philosophical discussion, and it didn't work out.
@TT Deductive arguments = presuppositionalist scripts? Yeah ok man.
Spot on brother abass
🤣🤣
Aronra, knew he was on the cuff of being exposed . He was already setting up the backdoor excape route .
Well done .
They had nothing and he saw that they tried to be shifty.
@@northernlight8857 😂😂😂 so they didnt get him to admit there was a necessary being, something he denied an hour earlier. you athiests are pathetic, you would act like you won even after getting knocked out.
I think he just was in his battle mode vs "texas fundamentalist apologist" and that he isn't very versed in philosophy. As for the argument if there is anecessary being and if it has to be concious and so forth is another discussion.
@@northernlight8857 cope
AaronRa: "You misrepresented me for the past X minutes!"
Abdul: "How?"
AaronRa: "I can't remember, it was too fast."
How do people take this charlatan seriously?
hahaha my exact reaction. Anytime you see him get emotional like that you know he is fighting his sense of reasoning and logic. It was so obvious
@King Saldua 37:25 around there I think
That was a really funny part. Lol.
lmao right that's exactly what he constantly did when subbor debated him
Aron is great with biology and religious texts but philosophy is not in his wheelhouse. He was clearly unprepared for this type of argument.
Its unbelievable that someone accepts all the chain of reasoning and go where it leads and when he reaches the end and see the logical implications of it. He just rejects it without giving any reason.
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric Typical faith believers.
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric do you know how a magical leprechaun looks like?
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric leprechaun is your God? And you don't even know what it is?
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric so if I want to join your religion to know what it is, how do I do so?
And why does it forbid it?
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric but why is it forbidden?
You guys are very equipped. Very underrated.
agreed 👍
Yeah. Proud these guys are in our side :).
THEY READ A PHILOSOPHY BOOK AND THINK THEYRE NIETZSCHE. THEYRE IDIOTS.
So semantics prove god?
@@Azrdraco they seem to think so. they literally spend all their time trying to make fun of atheists and mock them. there is not much sincere hope to talk, just a desire to make themselves look like winners and philosophers. once again, the ego is huge and the evidence is zero. apparently the more riddles and nonsensical philosophical theories used the more god is real. NOT! I think its rude how dismissive and stuck up these dudes are with a few months of philosophy courses and now they think they are the next socrates. they have the same arguments each time that dont explain their side at all but can not be defeated due to their lack of actual reasoning. they really think they are deeply wise and that they have learned all they need to know. the generations of today that dont value those who have more life experience who may have insights to share. a sense of entitlement and self centered ness which when coupled with a religion turns into these patronizing speeches that they cant patiently listen but must interject their opinion. they never actually answer questions that require facts or sound proof, there is always a way to avoid this. in islam in particular i have notice apologetics talking down at a childlike level, finishing their sentences with"you see" or "understand" or "yes?" like they are teaching fools. Islam is a religion that demands a person deny themselves, use fear and punishment, threatens their followers, devalues half the population, seeks violence and suffering, hates this group and that, insists they control others, has copied from earlier religions and has no basis to believe it is true, promotes victimizing kids, females, gays, and free thinkers, and terrorizing people around the world. the god in that religion is horrible, a hypocrite, a hateful sadist with no mercy and no tolerance. there is a mental break in believers to want to be part of this religion. they are not of the same species as me, i find them to be a damage to our world and they ruin life around them. i would rather never have to hear about religions and god and rules imposed that are ignorant and bigotted. may that religion and others like it fade into oblivion and disappear forever.
I love this but the
Abdul : can you tell where i misrepresented you
Aron: i wasnt taking rapid notes .
This is just a child's tantrum
Respect where respect is due. Aron was quite respectful and conceded some points to the brothers.
Yes, I quite liked that about him.
Sure, and we should commend his composure for the argument to get as far it did.
But at the same time, he has this tiny bit of alpha male stuff going on, where although he wants to accept arguments if they make sense, but he doesn't want to be seen as 'conceding' things to theists because he wants to be able to continue his new atheist rhetoric. He may believe that even granting the validity of a theistic argument will mean that he has lost too much ground.
Also, he seems just too frustrated with the theists to have a philosophical conversation with them. He was just sitting there like "I know that you're trying to trick me, I just need to catch you when you do." He won't be able to sustain a conversation, entertain claims and engage in hypotheticals like a philosophical atheist (like Oppy) would be able to. So although his behavior was commendable, I doubt he comes back for round two.
Vert respectfull tshirt
@@سويكتبنراضي-ي3س he's an atheist he's only wronging himself. I meant his behavior on the stream. Did you watched some of his rants he had?
@@The5a1man completely agree.
I haven't laughed this much in a while. Absolutely loved this.
This is Amazing Mashallah!! May Allah(swt) Bless you brothers.I really admire your calmness during the discussion
Support for my brothers for always performing super good.
I kinda attribute Jake's silence on this stream to his recent discussion with Vin. I mean, you can imagine how traumatizing it is to have to encounter two such persons in a row.
@@ponderingspirit yeah. And Aaron was trying so hard not to present a definite epistemology for his position as a hard atheist (maybe in fear of being cornered by it), but despite that, the brothers (particularly Jake's final entery) led him to concede to a necessary foundation of reality.
I am not the only one then 😃@@Uthopemus
this guys schooling an atheist master mind like a kid😂
mastermind?
lol good one
Aaron is not so intelligent
@@JohnSmith-db2wl all those words and you still look stupid... but you don't know why
This went about as exactly as I thought it would. He is so way out of his depth.
Aron ra didn't understand most of the points, good episode though, looking for the next one.
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric) :
@NZ Rupee FinDom Rhetoric Restrained McNarrative you are very salty
great discussion, it just shows how the atheistic community is willing to embrace these , with due respect, pseudo-intellectuals who are ignorant of even the basics of philosophy
@space juice There is also a lot of superiority complex. They think that people with faith can't think. I agree that some people are not as rational or as rigorous when it comes to using their intellect but these people are in both atheistic and faith based communities and likewise would be for the opposite kind of people. That's why we should all respect eachother and realize that having knowledge doesn't make us superior to anyone or anything. May Allah preserve us and guide us to beneficial Knowledge (Ameen)
I don't believe in any religions, but I have to agree to this. Aron Ra was acting as though he already has knowledge of what everyone is thinking or going to think. This debate was hard to watch because of his arrogance and ignorance.
You need a special level of stupidity and arrogance to be this confident, that s why only people like Aron Ra come out.
@@islam_will_Dominate yes. He’s a very narcissistic person.
First 7 minutes of the video and we're already talking about the definition of evidence. This is a good one.
What a train wreck. Good job guys. Your patience far exceeds mine.
What is your belief?
@@zakirnaikahmaddeedat3651 Christian. More of a philosophical Christian.
@@BruteFactsPodcast Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allah, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims."
Quran 3 64
@Solar yes, what do you believe?
Creationists and their mental gymnastics truly is a train wreck
In the end of the discussion, Aron basically admitted he believes in a necessary existence through accepting PSR and contingent things requiring an explanation outside itself, but he knows fully admitting that intellectually will hurt his brand so he had to double down and guess what he had to say in the end? I DON'T KNOW. So he was an agnostic fronting like an hard atheist?
This is what you call a charlatan hard athiest who can't even defend his own assertion. Hard atheism is his belief without any reason and he believes it because he believes it, not because he knows it. The very thing he was trying to accuse theist of doing.
Yep, great u turn by Aron who in his opening comments said no necessary existence exists.
first of all, he did not admitted he believes in necessary existence, he says it is 'possible' that it exists as equally as it is 'possible' that unicorns exists. it is a baseless assertion without any evidence and he keeps repeating the same thing because its TRUE. He actively denies the existence any textbook god because those textbooks are as flawed and as the people of the time those books were written in. Three people making him say that the possibility of an abstract idea exists proves sh*t. And as long as we are talking about possibility, Y'all have to also admit to the possibility of there not being any such existent. That's how possibility works. But you can't do it, can you ?
@@chikatichaitanya8827 you forgot he claimed to be a hard atheist. He can't double down to "its possible". So you clearly don't know what you arguing against
Could there be questions asked about wether Muhammed did ride on a Buraq or not to the heavens?
@@FootvolleySweden your question doesn't answer a thing about a necessary existence though, so it's irrelevant to the topic of the video
I have to say I'm speechless and so proud our ummah has minds like these. MashaAllah
Hahaha! Nice joke
@@Edward-bm7vw Glad it tickled you!
@@Edward-bm7vw like your world view perhaps
@@FactsWithActs My world view requires evidence
@@Edward-bm7vw but your perspective of evidence for your worldview is subjective to you based on your own personal presuppositions. The real question is what presuppositions support your worldview?
Around 49:00
Aron Ra says philosophy should be taught in highschool but it should be controlled on now it's taught? So essentially Aron Ra is okay indoctrinating as long it's his own view. So much for atheist being such free thinkers
.... If only you heard his next phrase where he said "..because it is so grossly misused by religious apologists" indicating that he is trying to avoid indoctrination. I don't get how this comment has likes.
@@Gxlto
He implied he wants to take it to the opposite side, essentially "Take control from the theist and give it to the atheists so THEY can do the indoctrination"¨
I understand why this comment has no likes
LOL
@@whoswho2215
No he didn't imply that with that phrase nor could he ever. The phrase was only mentioning the theists' abuse. You and/or the original commenter might've assumed that but that's unfounded. Aron has been promoting secular education forever. Besides, what would "take control from the theist and give it to the atheist so they can do it the indoctrination" be like? Religious apologists and fundamentalist schools always promote their alternative facts to support their favourite fable. Atheists have no need for that. We only rely on the unmet burden of proof. Information is our friend. An atheist who doesn't know about God is no use since they can be converted in no time. So, in summary, aron would never do that and there wouldn't be something to do anyway.
@@Gxlto do u not think secular humanist rules are dogma?
@@PabloSensei
For all I know, no. I'm not aware of anything being imposed similarly to dogma. Please define "secular humanist rules" since, although I dont identify as humanist,I have reason to think that the phrase is problematic and show why you think they are dogma.
I also dont remember the comment I wrote above so I have no idea how this is relevant to the subject but why not talk about it
I don’t understand how Aron is still around after being finished by Subboor Ahmad?
The one about evolution? You really think Subbhoor won that?
@@Im_Hugh_Jass Aron and his fans don’t really understand philosophy of science/biology etc or philosophy in general. So I wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t understand what is going on and how he got finished.
@@Im_Hugh_Jass Yep he won that and now Aaron looks even more stupid and dumbfounded. Exposed and dismantled lol
@@ahmedviews would you care to cite a time stamp in his debate with Subbhoor where Aron was wrong or “finished?”
@@Im_Hugh_Jass The fact that I need to point it out to you tells me everything I need to know about you.
This was the biggest dismantling of an atheist I've ever seen. Simply amazing. Keep this podcast up!
Tbh Aron like most atheists don't have much going for them. When you hit them up with basic questions their logic collapses.
All they did was dance around definitions and utterly failed to provide any evidence for the existence of their "being".
Just because you specifically don't accept the evidence, doesn't mean the evidence is not valid. @@RyanAlt-bx8tw
@@RyanAlt-bx8tw Just because you personally don’t accept the evidence as valid, doesn’t mean the evidence is not valid.
The only "dismantling" that happened, was to these amateur,incompetent wannabes that engage in circle arguments and to black people and other small brained idiots,they see that as "victory".Pathetic.
I cant believe how this guy holds these views but cannot substantiate any of them. Then when hes told to prove his position he starts to cry and say you're misrepresenting me. Aron got intellectually owned by @thoughtadventurepodcast !! Great job guys!! Keep it up Mashallah!
What was funny when he accused them of misrepresenting his beliefs. Abdul asked him can you show me where we misrepresented you ….. he was like I didn’t take notes and were speaking fast. Lmbo
"...philosophical conversations are just completely lost on me..."
Yes Aron. Yes they are. Philosophical atheists agree with you on this specific point.
Usually because it often argues by analogy and rhetoric, and often not on ibservation or evidence.
A proof can be definitrly true in mathematics because maths isn't chaotic, while abstract ideas like general relativity (explaining gravity) or evolution (explaining biodiversity, mostly on Earth) have demonstrated to be true; maths is robust enough to be so certain, while general relativity and evolution are so mathematically dynamic and chaotic that to be a valuable scientific idea is to be continuously "not proven to be false" throughout the idea's lifespan. At least, that is what I think is going on when we adapt theories like evolution (to which I would clarify that "theory" is a word that has a different meaning, than its colloquial use as a synonym of "idea" or "plan").
@@lkocon13 damn. You got him. You're so smart. How you manhandled that convo with rhetoric and sarcastic idiocy. Amazing.
Then you admit that you all dishonestly abuse philosophy to support ridiculous claims
It was awesome !!... this was an intellectually terrifying podcast for Aron Ra .... Aron was finished !!!
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric dude was afraid to answer basic questions man was cornered be honest 😂😂
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric youre not joking are you? he was intellectually defeated . this is the problem with you atheists man arrogance
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric 😐
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric bro, I’ve told you in multiple comment section that your are misrepresenting there argument (Strawmam) which is a logical fallacy. This is not the Kalam; this is the contingency they have different premises and conclusions.
Not exactly, anyone who uses philosophy to justify magic is intellectually dishonest. Hiding behind Philosophy is the only way they can get away with it.
Man you guys are amazing. This is next level philosophy and logic I'm being introduced to. Thank you.
They're brilliant and worth sharing
@Nick Jones The only pitiful one was Aron. Atheists are seeing his failure
@Nick Jones It's not our problem that you don't understand basics and philosophy
What's wild is that the lines of logic and reasoning are intrinsic in our Aqidah, alhamdulillah
Wow these brothers have some of the best patience I’ve ever seen.
Well done brothers. I encourage you not to rub this in Aaron's face and to keep your intentions sincere. What we want is to walk him through the reasoning and if Allah wills he will change his mind. I commend Aaron for remaining civil and hope he is open to exploring a stage 2 argument concerning the nature of the necessary being.
@jason Anderson you and your Muslims friend can explore stage 2 arguments to get from a generic necessary being to Classical Theism
@jason Anderson fair enough perhaps you want to explore it on your own
You guys made a cogent, intelligently executed argument but Aron was merely interested in chomping at the red meat i-e to hurl insults & well rehearsed one-liners towards Islam...so thank you for not letting him satisfy his hunger
What a close minded indecisive individual. Big up the brothers for their patience. It's difficult for Aron to agree because of his current situation he's too defensive to get anywhere imo.
I love this show I can’t lie. I know we have some back and forth in the chats but you 3 on stage I respect. I don’t always respect the chat audience but you 3 are sharp and good to listen to.
Who da eff is dis guy 😂😅😍😜
@@helsharidy123 😆 😇😇😇
@@helsharidy123 Hatem I like you too.. you’re nice too me 🤣
No love for me Daz?
Wait til you go to a Christian or an Atheist chat. It's madness
This was amazing, he was clearly not ready for this.
May Allah reward you brothers hugely, Ameen.
you guys are underrated.
Almost felt sorry for Aron. The whole conversation went straight over his smug head. Don't think he understood anything the brother were discussing. They spent 80% of the conversation explaining the question and then re-explaining it, like you would with a 5 year old. Kept contradicting himself and due to his arrogance he didn't even realise he was doing it. Aron need to stick to debating kids so he can feel intelligent.
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric what kind of idiotic statement is that. If they don't come to a common understanding of the defenition then the convo is going to go nowhere. Either you agree on it or you don't but you don't say you stick to yours and I'll stick to mine but let's carry on discussing the topic. Just shows you lot are either insincere or just plain stupid.
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric facts are observable data. What is said about Aron Ra from the people in this post that oppose your opinion are facts because they relate to verifiable data and is repeated able replayable. For example I played this interview over and over for the last 4 days and each time Aron Ra says
" A Necessary being exists"
That was the question in this debate, so question answered all parties conclude that a necessary existence Necessarily exists. with the conclusion reached by the TAP team and Aron Ra.
You yourself either also conclude the end result or you don't. I'd say you'd be the only person I have seen atheist or otherwise that disagrees with the logical conclusion of a necessary being.
Lmao
Because he doesnt know anything about philosophy, and these guys kept throwing jargon in their definition. Cringeworthy to watch someone use the word 'ontological' to a guy that obviously has never spent a day in a philosophy classroom.
@@flashg3292 they weren't throwing anything at him. I'm no philosopher but I even I understood what they were saying and the defenitions they were putting forward. Discussions like these, ideas and words need to be defined for a common understanding and a better discussion. If he didn't agree with a defenition he could have argued his own but the man was that stupid that almost everything went straight over his head.
Aron's was holding on to his presuppositions pretty religiously.
So religion is a bad thing?
The entire stream was teaching Aron Ra what the point of the conversation was in the first place.
But islam can still be not true right?
@@jenskarlsson9775 lol Really? After watching that. This is what you come with? Ra was completely dismantled.
@@canhaktan9674 What im saying is that the quran could be false but the concept of god could perhaps be true?
@@jenskarlsson9775 What do you know about the Quran that you are making this statement? Is it from a position of ignorance?
@@canhaktan9674 Im saying that we cant know if the Quran was created by aliens, a super computer from the future or from a demon.
As a non-theist, I have to say, Aron was utterly obliterated.
- Is there a necessary being: Yes
1 min later:
- Is there a necessary being: No
I admire Aron's work regarding evolution, but when it comes to philosophy it's just bizarre. He basically was just pulling stuff out of his anti-creationist script, which didn't answer questions posed to him, expecting it'd be good enough. Kudos for Muslim guys for being patient and consistent.
You should watch his debate with Subboor ahmad on evolution
@@aseelsabah9211 I did, but it was long time ago. In a nutshell, Subboor got destroyed because he was basically redefining stuff so evolution no longer means evolution, right?
@@trainrekt8290 i am sorry .. you meant Aron got destroyed right?
@@trainrekt8290 Aaron Rs got destroyed. Please don't confused the two.
where did Aron Ra say there's a necessary being? And you are not an atheist... please... I don't know what the hell a non-theist is.
I knew from suboors and aron’s debate that aron has little to no knowledge of islam and philosophy. However, this debate exposed his ignorance even further to the point he shot himself in his foot.
"that doesn't necessarily mean it is not possible, it just means there is no possibility" 😂
18:47
Yeah that part got me too
🎤 drop at the hour mark, Aaron threw up his hand because he knew that matter and energy is not contingent and that it's a necessity. Half of the arguments went over Aaron head and he couldn't understand simple concepts. So sad.
"Aaron threw up his hand because he knew that matter and energy is not contingent and that it's a necessity."
Did you mean to say matter and energy are contingent and not necessary?
@@peacebeuntoyou8934 No in that part of the discussion he (unbeknownst to himself) was actually conceding that matter and energy is the necessary being in his paradigm because she clearly stated a philosophical nothingness is impossible. When he then realised the implications of what he said and that is a) he conceded to their being a necessary being which is a big no no for these internet atheists and that b) his model of matter and energy being necessary was going to be quickly dismantled in an embarrassing manner, he backtracked completely, changed the subject and basically disappeared in a magical act that would put Houdini to shame lol
@@osb7948 ??? what??
@@arianagrandaremix8858 I think the comment is very clear. What specifically are you confused about?
I don’t think people realize how much of an annihilation this was. The errors which Aaron made are too much to list. Hats off to all the brothers, you guys did tremendous MashAllah, May Allah accept it from you Ameen
@@bustinjieber2673 it’s called using logic to figure out what the best explanation of the reality around us is
Can you please show me the inconsistency in the following argument...
1) everything around us is physical and composed of dependant parts
2) hence reality needs a necessary foundation which all dependant things depend upon
3) this necessary foundation by definition is independent or else we would have a man infinite regress of dependant realities
And the afterwards we can discuss the attributes of this necessary being. But I just wanted to show you how it’s not wishful thinking nor are we inferring things without prior logical and coherent propositions
@@bustinjieber2673 btw don’t use the Aaron Ra arguement of “no supernatural thing is proven hence doesn’t exist” the guy was absolutely rinsed in this discussion, I’d like to think that you’re at least a bit more smarter in philosophy than Aaron can ever dream of being. Don’t just regurgitate what you’re apologists utter, because some of it is just embarrassing
@@bustinjieber2673 I didn’t infer anything mate. Why are you inferring that I’m going to infer something which I have not inferred yet
@@bustinjieber2673 all I’m saying is that a necessary foundation/being/reality is the most logical conclusion for the dependant realities we see around us. Once we agree on that we can discuss what the nature of this necessary thing is by using more logic and reason (not wishful thinking)
@@bustinjieber2673 what does supernatural mean? It means anything outside our universe. Since our universe as a whole is made from dependant parts, that entails this necessary foundation is outside the universe and hence supernatural
You atheists really need to think these basic propositions through. I mean, this is basic philosophy
Gents, firstly - I genuinely appreciate that you're having these conversations with well known YT Atheists.
Kudos to all concerned.
Secondly, I've some suggestions:
Yours are philosophical arguments.
So either: agree, before the debates - some language/phrase terminology & their meaning in the context of the debate & topic.
Or
Debate Atheists that are also well versed in the philosophical way, in which to have these debates.
It would save time, allow all involved to use their valuable time, more efficiently and this would potentially create more impact/value, to the debate.
That said, keep going gents.
Its an interesting podcast.
God is not merely a metaphysical or philosophical question, as you demonstrated so eloquently, it’s a question of reason. This is attainable without any formalist training, but we come to common terms as Allah has instructed. Mash’ Allah!
Wow I’m shook Mashallah brothers! That was a master plan, I really didn’t see that coming! I’d love to see if he comes back on so this can carry on!!!
Alhamdulillah, it's been 2 months, still waiting Insha'Allah. May Allah guide him when he decides to want guidance ☝🏼.
@@TheMrSpectatorr Aameen ❤️
How come I haven't watched this epic destruction earlier. Aaron Raw got overcooked 😂
My favourite argument as a layman is, How can something so complex come into existence by chance that our great science and super technology can't even imagine to copy?
But Islam can still be not true right?
@@jenskarlsson9775 simply impossible for it to be false. Islam is perfect, the necesessary existence reveals guidance, we follow.
@@jenskarlsson9775 Exactly, and then when you think about it.. Something so complex such as life, must be "made" by someone even more complex as logic intails. Now how did that ultra complex being came into being? You could argue that the ultra complex being always existed, so we can say that engery/mass always existed and life happens with they covert into one another.. It doesn't have to be a intelligent being as life is pretty baseless.
@@turkishsalafi9819 Islam is perfect to you. Read about Bias.
So are you saying that if we dont know, therefor God?
My guy tried to leave when you guys were about to heat up loooool :D
This channel needs millions of subscribers.
Inshallah one day
Im afraid thats not gonna happen. We live in a time when most of people has 5 seconds of attention span. 2 hours podcast would feel like hell to them.
I'm not Muslim but I do believe you guys really put him on the spot and had him backtracking to where he wanted to put the focus back on you guys because he did not know how to respond to your rational questions. He usually tries to bully theists who debate with him by trying to put them on the spot on what they believe and mock them when they're confused. Interesting topic and discussion. God bless.
Aron ra wanted the conversation to go something like this.
Ra: Do you believe there is a God?
Team: yes
Ra: You believe in magic
But he didn't realise our amazing brothers could completely expose the fact that Aron Ra has no ability to reason and nor does he have any understand that words have very specific meanings in certain context
I'm about 15 mins in, and I don't think Aron is getting destroyed. I think Abdul and Sharif are kinda arguing in rhetorical battery, where you talk for such a long time that the opposite person listening is overwhelmed. And because it's overwhelming and exhausting even for me with a pause button, it reads to me as a dishonest debate tactic in person (if a teacher did this in a class, the students are in the right to not know what the hell the teacher just said).
Also I can agree Aron's points come off like he's reading from a script (I like his videos and can pick up some repetitive phrases), but I think that's an artifact of developing and exercising these arguments for over 20 years.
@@lkocon13 nice cope
"what proof is there for god?"
"You have to prove there is no evidence."
"No, because I don't believe it. I welcome the opportunity to listen to your evidence."
"Nope, too bad, you can't disprove it, so it must be true."
By that logic, I'm 12 feet tall. You can't disprove it.
@@Azrdraco no need for a strawmen kid. Next time actually try to listen to the arguments.
@@ilias4609 I've heard the arguments. Your condescension does not turn a lack of belief into a positive claim requiring evidence.
Aron ra was intellectually destroyed in this. My prediction is that he probably will not come on for part 2 because it will potentially hurt his brand. He will rather continue to double down on his weak "criticisms of the Quran" narrative and just sit in his echo chamber of islamophobes and exmuslims. I hope I am wrong and he actually comes on for part 2.
yeah obviously, he had no objections all the way through the train of thought about contingent things requring an explanation outside itself but psychologically he doesn't want to admit to the possibility of a logical necessity. This would really hurt his brand as a hard athiest. I think he was expecting Islamic polemics or something as he tried so hard to bait them, but it clearly didn't work
@@commandar88 in no way. He did good. He showed the flaws in their thinking.
@@northernlight8857 timestamp plz
@@northernlight8857 proof? Aaron actually got destroyed by Muslims if you genuinely believe that a god doesn't exist just because we can't see it is pretty lame from atheists like you. Your hate of religion is based on bias and not actually critical and factual arguments. All I gotta say is. Atheists never win against religious people and this debate was genuinely won by Muslims.
So why do you believe Islam is true?
Does anyone remember Thunderf00t? What happened to him?
Back in those days, theists weren't challenging the Atheistic paradigm or rather had poor arguments, but now it seems the times are shifting.
@Sarim Akbar I think Thunderf00t focuses more on "busted" videos nowadays.
The best part was when Aron mentioned Muslims believing in magic by equating it with miracles and Brother Sharif flipped it with logical entailment of the argument presented leads to Aron appealing to magic.
Arons problem is, that he doesn't understand the philosophical basis for his own ontological and epistemological positions and doesn't seem to want to understand them.
That was very clear, when Abdul Rahman gave a very precise description of his philosophical inconsistencies and Aron dismissed everything he said and seemed to actually believe, that his views were being misrepresented completely, which goes to show, that he has no idea about the philosophical basis for his own beliefs.
Next guest: Richard Dawkins
Finish them one by one
Dawkins wouldn't even show up
@@MuhammadHamza-ou6zq i think dawkins has said that he doesn't debate with philosophers
@Designer Dude what else would you expect from a man who criticizes islam without ever reading the Quran
1. incredibly impressed with the argument representing a belief in God as a non believer
2. I’ve heard of Aaron Ra before however found him disappointing. didn’t look like he wanted be there. was condescending and didn’t try to win hearts and minds to his position. , just regurgitating the same argument without trying to rephrase or better articulate his position.
3. Fair play however to Aaron Ra for taking on 3 dissenting views on their turf, despite the fact he was a bit of a wet lettuce
well done fellas. im not normally a fan of God debates but really enjoyed your methodology
@C. Shawn Thanks for your response.
Abdul at 33:50 ! Smooth, clear and on the point.
This was cringeworthy on Aron's part. The discussion was clearly over his head. Do people actually view him as an intellectual? Astonishing
The discussion was over his head when it came to Bro Subboor as well at Speakers Corner. He needs to educate himself before he has these discussions.
This was an absolute intellectual pounding for Aronra, typical dogmatic atheistic sophism, he was completely abandoning his intellect to hold on to his irrational worldview.
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric The name of the discussion was ‘Does a necessary being exist’ Aron conceded that their has to be a necessary being and then went back on it. I don’t know how much more dishonest you can get. Also they didn’t lure him under a false premise, Aron clearly came on to make emotional arguments and he couldn’t handle real philosophy. Once again the dogmatic atheists embarrassing themselves with their philosophical incompetence.
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric hi aron ra
@Bizzy's FinDom Rhetoric if you heard "cause" anywhere in the discussion, then you wasted your time.
Reminds of the xtians when it gets down to the nitty gritty.....🏃♂️🏃♂️🏃♂️
This is so embarrassing for Aron Ra it's actually difficult to watch.
Missed it 😔 but imma watch it right now Inshaa'Allah 😌
Aron was about as mature as a 5 year old.
I thought Mohammed Hijab & co were the only brothers in the intelligent debate scene, but Alhamdulillah, what a pleasure it has been discovering not one, but THREE brothers with such amazing synergy, articulation skills, and of humble characters. You demonstrated so many great qualities of being a Muslim, while at the same time emanating deep intelligence ❤
I think Abdul and sharif are better than Mohammed hijab
@@PabloSensei I'm tempted to agree, but Mohammed Hijab has covered soo many other mainstream topics that it's not a fair comparison. These brothers are Alhamdulillah amazing at logic at an academic level, and explaining it with great examples, while Mohammed Hijab foucses on all sorts of societal topics. Both are great in their own ways :)
what a wonderful discussion!!! Thank you brothers. I think Aron at least got educated on the first principles.
You guys did a great job seeding the inquisitiveness. I'm sure this has been so worthwhile for everyone.
Much love and admiration💓🌷
May Allah bless and protect the brothers and give Aron hidaya ameen. mashaAllah Sharif is so underrated love how clearly he breaks things down and easy to follow
well than I wonder what you think of odin. As odin promised to get rid of the ice giants and o you see today any ice giant?
@furioustacowarrior1489 well I made the argument for aron ra.
@furioustacowarrior1489 well I think I was confused >.
how hysterical, aron ra makes alot of errors in his reasoning and when called upon them he dismiss the metric they use to determine it, philosphy out the window, logic out the window, definitions out the window, and then........ plays the misrepresented victim card. damn
Found you from scdawah AaronRa was so confused 😂
Alhamdullilah. These brothers are amazing 🤩
Notice that Aron only wanted to come back under his own terms, which is why he wants to just ask you guys believe what you believe and he has no burden to explain why he believes what he believes (which didn’t seem like he really even knew after these guys exposed him)
Aaron already locked his mindset thinking that necessary being is God. He went straight to the meat without proper thought of process and thinking these Muslims try to trick him into believing in God. The problem is with Aaron.
MashaAllah you guys are awesome. May Allah bless you all.
You guys should set up a discussion with Cosmic Skeptic (Alex O'Connor). That would be fascinating.
True
Mashallah T.A P is a brilliant podcast, love what you're doing with it. Great young Muslim minds.
Wallahi you guys did a great job. I find it a sad reality that muslims and theists must treat these men (or children) with kitty gloves while they are the most smug, rude, and incendiary of people. From his shirt to his demeanor hes an off putting person.
Alhamdulillah for the patience of these brothers. These people truly are insufferable and only based on emotion and petulance
Is Islam based on emotion?
@@jenskarlsson9775 Nope. I became a Muslim due to evidence, not emotions.
@@ibnmianal-buna3176 Awesome! Do you feel like talking about those evidences with me?
@@swediauntukanda1736 Sure, check my playlist Some Evidence for Islam. In particular start out with the video by Islamic Calling in there called "Apostate Prophet Exposed Part 3". Skip the silly opening, but watch the first 25 mins and turn on the subtitles. It analyzes historical evidence that a supernatural being gave the Quran to Prophet Muhammad(SAW).
This is an excellent channel
To be honest, Aron Ra was seemed like a person of integrity. He agreed to points which he initially thought was wrong. Credit to him as well as the brothers.
His integrity started to unfortunately disintegrate around the 45 minute mark until he left where he realised what was happening and decided to backtrack, change the subject and basically disappear rather than concede or give a meaningful rebuttal but yes, until then he was doing quite well.
Mallu😇
Abdul is so intelligent, ma sha Allah.
Masha Allah this is the best argument for Muslims to learn about nature of ALLAH SWT = AS-Samaad =The Necessary Being Eternal Uncreated Uncaused Cause, Excellent Job
Aron literally did the Patrick is this your wallet meme. He was agreeing with the train of logic but when it came to the conclusion he suddenly denies it.
May Allah reward you guys for your work.
Aronra was ripped to shreds here… sheesh, he was pounded so hard he didn’t realise he was suffering internal bleeding. You could almost see the blood dripping from his ears 😂
This channel is underrated.
Used to think Aron was actually intelligent, but eventually figured that is how he likes to portray himself. The more I listen to him the dumber he reveals himself to be. Add to that a childish ego. He doesn't mind straw-manning others and does it constantly but gets very defensive when he is steel-manned.
Herr i am always thinking it was a “ steal-man “ since you’re temporary stealing their argument to see if you represent them right.
You guyz nailed it! Aaron did not understand....but i learnt alot. Thanks guys. Thanks alot!
Poor Aron, this three almost turned him into a believer of Allah 🥴
But he cleverly contradicted himself to hide his confussion.🤣🤣
Believer of what? Nobody's going to get to a belief in Allah through reasoning and intelligence. You can have interesting philosphical arguments about whether 'god' exists, but there is no logical stepping stone from that to a belief in the God of the Bible or Quran.
It was 'Magical' to see Aron agree at the end. Congratulations guys! Next .... Sharon who...? Please stand up.
16:09 lol 😂 Aaron raw making arguments which can spin in both ways ! 😂
Jazakom Allah khair brothers.
At 58:00 minute, abdul and yusuf just took the discussion away from Aronra. They nailed it.
Only your Maker can perfectly cover for you Himself and remake you again from the inside out by the power of His true word as no one else can. Salvation is through sanctification by the Spirit and believing what is true.
The sheer arrogance from Aron is unreal, truly blind from the heart. But at least we're getting somewhere when he said he believes in a necessary "thing" but he's got a serious psychological aversion to the metaphysical. His world view is the problem. I pray that he has a change of heart one day iA.
Jazak Allahu khayran❤
After listening so far, I think you will not be able to understand his epistemological framework, because he has none. He has repertoire of defensive arguments, that he has acquired that he uses to justify. Very embarrassing, but very predictable. I was hoping for more. I was an atheist for over two decade and, imo, Aron unfortunately represents, majority of atheist; they are essentially socialized atheist.
Good job guys
May Allah be merciful and guide him. Please guys don't insult our job is to convey the message. The rest is upto Allah. A small insult can be misguidance. Allah Hu Allam
These boys just proved that mustard absolutely is produced periodically on Pluto whenever we aren’t looking because it’s being is necessarily so.
Whatever your argument is, is a philosophical position that can’t be proved true so I’m right
I used to think Aron Ra is an intelligent man but obviously he is not. All he does is dismiss and refuse to discuss that which he doesn't like or that which might expose him.
Sharif had to slow down his phrases so much, I keep expecting him to pull out finger dolls to demonstrate his points.
😂
The more one watches these kind of programmes, the clearer it becomes how intellectually bankrupt some atheists are. They are brave and loud when they are in their echo chambers, but the house crumbles when you put the slightest of pressure on it... like a spider's web.