I've played EUPOP about 15 times now, a few of those with 6 people on the historical war game club and we are all amazed by the historical depth and correctness, it is all done so well and translated in game mechanics. this is a truly uniek game with so much replay ability. For History buff's this game brings history to live, it is so well done!
@@calandale the more you play the game, the more you will see the subtiele nuances and rules translate into historical ways. we have a few real historians at the club, who every time we play find new insights why the rules where made this way. 400 years in one box but a maximum of 16 rounds is truly a wonder. How many games did you play?
Just the once so far. It's very clear that there simply aren't enough cubes under the rules as written to get anything like historical results. Distilling the Napoleonic Wars (as merely one example) to fighting in a single province (or a couple) is also an abstraction that cannot be stomached. I'd strongly suggest trying the original boardgame - it has its own serious flaws, but at least historical results are possible everywhere but Russia. At least that one tries.
My guess is that your historian friends are less familiar with the level of detail and accuracy that wargames generally have. And yeah, back when I was 10 or so, before I found that truly rich world of games, this would definitely have knocked my socks off. But, consider this version against the computer game, and you will see the kind of flaws that I'm discussing.
Just discovered your channel. Awesome stuff. Don’t really know anyone else that has actually played through most of these super heavy games and that has actually provided opinions on them! This is also the area of game I’m starting to develop some interest in (war gaming mostly). My question is, what would you say are the top…5 overall heaviest games you’ve played? Is the new EU game heavier than the old EU game? Would love to hear your answers. Thanks.
Everything is probably best collected here: boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/61422/games-receiving-calandale-video-treatment Categorization by era is present in the header links.
Congrats and kudos. Man alive, capturing the entire campaign was some undertaking. I hope to be getting mine to the table this weekend. I wonder if you think the long game exacerbated the problems you found with the cube/counter numbers and trade relevance -- would it be so noticeable if playing a shorter scenario.
@@calandale Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I can see how the counter/cube mix may show early, if looking - Be interesting to see if, in a shortened game, countries reap rewards from major investment in trade (maybe making it their entire strategy).
It can't be their whole strategy - because unlike in the original, there's basically no VP value to trade. It's just money - and money is generally not that useful. There aren't even missions which directly are triggered by trade itself, although there are ones which trade is the easiest way to get to them.
A better option might be giving someone a VP each time they trade at the highest level off a card. That would create some interesting incentives without changing the game too significantly. Most countries probably wouldn't follow the strategy, but it would open it up for those who want trade more.
I'm so disappointed with this game. I'm glad I have the old EU. But maybe I'm going to buy this game eventually and incorporate it into the old EU. Over at Beyond Solitaire I watched the designer of the new EU talk about the game with a social historian and Liz from Dice Tower. I learned some interesting things about what the designer thought.
"We may have to go into cubes in more detail" This is what I'm here for.
I am in awe at your discipline to have actually played through it…and filmed it.
I had fun with it. If it weren't for my stupid Raid addiction, it would have gone a lot smoother.
I've played EUPOP about 15 times now, a few of those with 6 people on the historical war game club and we are all amazed by the historical depth and correctness, it is all done so well and translated in game mechanics. this is a truly uniek game with so much replay ability. For History buff's this game brings history to live, it is so well done!
You must know different history from what I do then.
@@calandale the more you play the game, the more you will see the subtiele nuances and rules translate into historical ways. we have a few real historians at the club, who every time we play find new insights why the rules where made this way. 400 years in one box but a maximum of 16 rounds is truly a wonder. How many games did you play?
Just the once so far. It's very clear that there simply aren't enough cubes under the rules as written to get anything like historical results. Distilling the Napoleonic Wars (as merely one example) to fighting in a single province (or a couple) is also an abstraction that cannot be stomached.
I'd strongly suggest trying the original boardgame - it has its own serious flaws, but at least historical results are possible everywhere but Russia. At least that one tries.
My guess is that your historian friends are less familiar with the level of detail and accuracy that wargames generally have. And yeah, back when I was 10 or so, before I found that truly rich world of games, this would definitely have knocked my socks off. But, consider this version against the computer game, and you will see the kind of flaws that I'm discussing.
@@calandale If I come across a copy i will! this makes me curieus! Nice video's btw! thanks
I can't stand this game, but I loved this review! I think you are able to make any game interesting, and inspiring as well
Just discovered your channel. Awesome stuff. Don’t really know anyone else that has actually played through most of these super heavy games and that has actually provided opinions on them! This is also the area of game I’m starting to develop some interest in (war gaming mostly). My question is, what would you say are the top…5 overall heaviest games you’ve played? Is the new EU game heavier than the old EU game? Would love to hear your answers. Thanks.
Everything is probably best collected here: boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/61422/games-receiving-calandale-video-treatment
Categorization by era is present in the header links.
@@calandaleExcellent, thanks.
Have been looking forward to your overall thoughts.
Great review, thanks Cal.
Congrats and kudos. Man alive, capturing the entire campaign was some undertaking. I hope to be getting mine to the table this weekend. I wonder if you think the long game exacerbated the problems you found with the cube/counter numbers and trade relevance -- would it be so noticeable if playing a shorter scenario.
Probably. More because it takes time to notice/understand what's wrong than anything else. I saw no issues when I played the intro scenario.
@@calandale Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I can see how the counter/cube mix may show early, if looking - Be interesting to see if, in a shortened game, countries reap rewards from major investment in trade (maybe making it their entire strategy).
It can't be their whole strategy - because unlike in the original, there's basically no VP value to trade. It's just money - and money is generally not that useful.
There aren't even missions which directly are triggered by trade itself, although there are ones which trade is the easiest way to get to them.
@@calandale Got it, thank you -- food for thought. Not yet played it and already thinking of house ruling Ducats for VPs. 🤐
A better option might be giving someone a VP each time they trade at the highest level off a card. That would create some interesting incentives without changing the game too significantly. Most countries probably wouldn't follow the strategy, but it would open it up for those who want trade more.
WHEW!
I'm glad that mess is done!
So what's next?
Are you considering or planning on doing a play through of War Room?
Never heard of it, so no.
Great great board game....
What's next
18SVE final release
Wait... its a eurogame?
The mechanisms are heavily euroish. It sure isn't a traditional simulation along the lines of the original game.
1:31:03 TL:DR
thank you, 1/2 hour in and he's still circling.
@@MegaKemper hehe, he has lots to say and it's all good... quite impressive that he played thru the whole campaign.
I'm so disappointed with this game. I'm glad I have the old EU. But maybe I'm going to buy this game eventually and incorporate it into the old EU.
Over at Beyond Solitaire I watched the designer of the new EU talk about the game with a social historian and Liz from Dice Tower. I learned some interesting things about what the designer thought.
Link?
@@sanderhaskins2740 Beyond Solitaire...look it up on youtube.
Struggle of Empires still best
Found that to be a pretty lousy representation, tbh