Played King Maker hundreds of times. Went to Windsor Castle and in the Knight's Hall there was a display of coats of arms. I pointed to them, "Mowbray, Neville, Plantaganet, Beaufort..." to the amazement of the tour guide.
Should do a survey on how many players didn't own cats for years because of their experiences with meticulously stacked counters and an overactive inquisitive feline in their formative years of gaming.
Completing a multi-day play of any game while also owning 1 or more cats without a reset or bundles of fur-wire on the board is a victory in itself along with the applicable bragging rights.
One game I did not see was "Wizards Quest"* on the list which was very simple/fast , beer and pretzels game by AH. Actually a very fun game and could have 6players. Much lighter and very different from other AH games. We played it a good bit , when we had many people(teenagers- drinking and smoking LOL) and did not want get bogged down in a serious game . A 'Beer and Pretzels game " very true, and I think that is even in the editor's/designer's comments in the rulebook. If you missed this game and have several potential players , I would suggest buying it, very cheap on BBG. Nuclear War was another but that was not Avalon Hill. And I guess there is a silly argument that old 'Fortress America"by Milton Bradley could now be called an AH game LOL. If it is, I'd rank it below Squad Leader :) *note: Wizard's Quest is basically a simplified Risk(or Castle Risk;) with some fantasy/D&D elements If you really want Risk meets D&D , you want "Divine Right" by TSR. Which IMO is to equal to Squad Leader but DR is a multi-player game, and you really need 4-5 players to see it at its best. Cost now is an easy $200-250+ if you can even find a copy at all . If you EVER see a copy of Divine Right* in a thrift store/second hand book store/yard sale BUY IT! You have found a diamond :). Play it some and/ or make a few $100 selling it. I might trade one copy of original Divine Right for Squad Leader + CoI+ +CoD +AoV, (all complete) that is how rare it is. But I digress, Wizard's Quest was a cool AH game, now forgotten :(
During the 1990s when I was a fireman in Liverpool UK, I somehow managed to interest a few of the fellers in boardgames when we were on "stand down". Some great memories of KINGMAKER with huge dollops of alliances, backstabbing, intrigue and merriment inbetween "shouts". Probably my happiest memories of communal boardgame playing.
When my brother and I were teenagers, he brought home copies of Avalon Hill's Midway, Luftwaffe and The Russian Campaign, which we played for hours. Eventually we found Squad Leader which became our favorite game (along with SPI's War in Europe at the extreme other end of scope :-)). Thanks for the video. It brought up very pleasant memories.
My bro and my cousin played the scenrio where the Americans are attacking a German pillbox network , well it took my cousin 2 + hours to set up the German defense and it was a good one ! But Americans 1st prep fire on the 1st turn he shook a 3 on the dice which called for a MC my cousin then threw a 12 ! Which caused the 10-3 leader to break !! 3 hrs of setup for 5min of game 😀
I'm starting to think many wargamers haven't played Diplomacy much or at all. My own experience was perhaps quite atypical. I went to high school at the Taipei American School during the Vietnam War, so most of my fellow high schoolers were from military families. As I mentioned on another video, the English lounge in the high school had a Diplomacy map painted on one wall, and there was always a game going on, going at one or sometimes two moves per day. Each country was played by an individual or sometimes by a team of two or three; negotiations happened throughout the day, sometimes in the lounge, sometimes in other classes or in breaks. This was pretty much my first war game, so I've always thought of Diplomacy as the quintessential war game, but a lot of people had difficulty coming up with even one opponent for war games, let alone 6 for Diplomacy.
Excellent list. My older games have held up very well. Biggest bummer when Avalon Hill went under. Wonder what Hasbro is sitting on and not developing also. On another note. I recently lost one of my best friends who was also my main Avalon Hill opponent. We loved Midway, but our competition was between Tactics 2 and Blitzkrieg. I could never beat him at Tactics 2. He could never beat me at Blitzkrieg. Shout out to my best bud Joe.
Sorry for your loss. It's wonderful that you shared some great experiences together at the table. Thanks for sharing your story and commemorating him here. If we ever do a game of Tactics II on the channel, we'll dedicate it to Joe.
I STILL use the 'Wooden Ship's and Iron Men' ruleset along with the excellent scenarios (and a few 'monster' ones) to add flavor to existing miniature rules for that era (looking at you 'Master and Commander') and using the miniatures for which such a complex game was never intended (i.e. the depressingly discontinued WizKids 'Pirates!' CCG).
These games are so good. I tended to like the simpler games like War at Sea and Diplomacy because they are easier for friends to pick up who are not hard core into military sims. To this day, I still remember the names of all of the Italian, British, German and American warships. I like Squad Leader, the one where you put a WW2 squad together with individual specialists like BAR operator. I also had Basketball simulator, believe it or not. It was quite good. Yes, Midway was great. So was Panzer Blitz and Panzer Leader.
@@LegendaryTactics Diplomacy is "lighter"? I mean, the mechanical rules are simple, but coordinating coalitions can get complex, even before the backstabbing.
First of these games I played was Panzer Leader. The game was Celles, and I was playing as the Germans. I'd never played before. My opponent moved first, and ran his tanks straight into my 88s! Have been a fan ever since.
Surprised not to hear D-Day mentioned. It is a fun game, very simple rules. Like some other titles, it was not true to its focus, rather a liberation of France versus a simulation of D-Day (they later released The Longest Day, one of their most expensive games). Squad Leader is still a favorite, as is PanzerBlitz. I was leaving for Korea in 1994 when the Great American Civil War campaign games were coming out. Which I looked forward to. At the Pentagon in 1999, I learned that Avalon Hill was no more, to be taken over by Hasbro. It felt like an old friend had died.
I remember playing Squad Leader with several friends. At one point we made little "blood" counters (drawn on blanks) that we would put down whenever an infantry unit was eliminated. Playing the first scenarios of the Stalingrad street fights left a real mess on the board. A bit surprised that Russian Campaign didn't appear on here.
Played Wooden Ship and Iron Man countless times. I even made my own rules and scenarios for the post Napoleonic era (my favourite being the 2-day Battle of Hampton Roads with rules for the ironclads). The game felt historically accurate to me at that time, but later I found that the command and control aspect is not incorporated well into the system and thus there is not much motivation to maintain a line of battle. The game inspired a number of successors like Close Action and it has been superseded by them. Still the game is very entertaining and exciting to play.
Well, great games like Close Action have to stand on the shoulders on giants most times. And WS&IM is one of those giants! Did you play any other games by AH?
Did you notice rule VIII.A.4.a? "The ship being fired upon must be the closest in number of hexes to the firing ship of all ships in the [broadside's] field of fire". To ensure that the closest ship is not a friendly ship, which would block firing on any enemy ships, a line ahead formation is almost required.
I am glad Blitzkrieg got mentioned, It took Tactics II to its logical end on a hexagonal map board, Wish I still had my/a copy. Midway was my first board war-game. The first one I bought with my own money was Starship Troopers.
@@JeepWrangler1957 UH -1 crew chief? My dad flew Huey's in Nam My god father died flying Huey's in Nam My bestest Plt Sgt in the army was a Huey door-gunner in Nam. Purty good name, you walk with big shoes.
I loved Kingmaker as a kid. Sadly often played solo. I have a fond memory of bringing it to the attention of another war gamer I met in grad school. We played it while vacationing together with our wives.
Recently bought the slightly updated version of Dune. Have not played it yet, but I owned the original AH game (and Cosmic Encounter) back in the day, and am convinced it just is a matter of time. I also got hold of Machiavelli (2. ed.) , bought the 1 ed. in Londan back in the 80´es. The nice thing is that you can claim that the only reason you lost (unlike Diplomacy) is bad luck with plague and hunger. My greates memories with AH games however are with Flat Top. Our gaming club used to hold events in the summer time with Flat Top played in 3 rooms for most of a week. One room with the Americans, one with Japaneese and one with Game-masters. The hourly turns in daytime used to take approximately one hour to write down and process for the GM´s. So we played almost realtime each day from 10 am to the last bus departing in my town at 0.20 am. Not much happened at night in the game, so those turns went quickly.
Luftwaffe had incredibly good box art. The round pieces were also very nice. I couldn't understand the game itself for the longest time, though - until I realized it was more of an air traffic control game than anything else.
The cover art is pretty cool for that one. That's an interesting view of the game, but whatever helps you understand how to play and get it to the table often is a good thing!
I rember the very 1st game i played ! Got the rules wrong thought when you went tru the 20 game turn the planes would be added as we went tru the 1st turn of the game we had every counter on the board !!! What a debacle that was left us scratching our heads for awhile 😄
Might have missed it, but I didn't see "Patton's Best" on the list. When it came out. I was struck at how much it felt like being in a tank. As a former tanker in the Army Reserves, it is probably the best game for making you realize that the crew of your vehicle is one of the more important factors, as is luck. Boring days with no combat come to be prized, since the days with lots of contact tend to see you lose your tank or some of your crew, and having to replace someone who has been with you for the entire campaign can be jarring. Games like Tobruk, Squad Leader, or Advanced Squad leader deal with groups of tanks and men, but Patton's Best boils it all down to one tank - yours - and treats the other tanks in your unit and the enemy tanks you face as objects, rather than vehicles with individual crewmembers inside like yours.
I am so glad to have stumbled across your channel. The videos bring back so many memories from the 70s and 80s. At some point in time I owned nearly every game you mention. It is shocking to me now how much money and time I had spent. Today my collection is a mere fraction of what it was decades ago. I have 3 tall bookcases filled with games still laying around waiting to find a shelf. Life was grand back then with my 3 brothers. Time to go sit and remember great times.
My first game was Battle of the Bulge. At a garage sale. I was 10 or 11. None of the rules made sense until I (re-read) the 5X movement on roads. Then, everything made sense.
I wish that board games were still so plentiful at garage sales. Unfortunately, they get snapped up so quickly these days and the rules are so much more accessible.
Interesting that Diplomacy was not among the players' favorites. I guess I have to assume that most people never got together the 7 players needed for a good game.
I was introduced to the Ariel edition of Kingmaker and still have my 2nd Ed Avalon Hill version with the larger map. Gibson Games is about to release "Kingmaker II" on Kickstarter at the end of this month. It will have a double sided map, one side will be the original game with the extra cards etc from the General Magazine. The other side will be for a new quicker playing version of the game.
with regard to extra cards. The Avalon Hill version that I had (1970s) had an extra card that was blank, so I drew it up as "Scots Pipers" with a troop value. Even drew a surprisingly good graphic of the bag pipers on it.
There were a couple that I own that I noticed that were nowhere on the list. I would expect as they are rare (Dark Emperor and Firepower). However, one that I personally know several people own but is not talked about often, Wizard's Quest. I always felt that was a good "gateway" game for non-gamers. Kind of how Settlers of Catan is now.
@@LegendaryTactics There is a little *.*msi file out there of Wizard's Quest. I downloaded it years ago. Real small file but it is the complete game for PC (1,900KB).
I agree with your list but for me I wold put Third Reich first because it won numerous awards back then including the Charles S. Roberts Award. Squad leader should be second. It is the best tactical game ever made. I spent over 10k hours with both games back in the USAF in an undisclosed location. Never played Advanced Squad leader because I had already invested much in Squad Leader with all its add on modules like Cross of Iron,Crescendo of Doom ,G.I. Anvil of Victory. Also Squad Leader (with ASL) sold over 1m copies.
That was ASLs downfall for me... after so many expansions, all the additional rules started to break my brain. But it had a long and distinguished run!!
I had about 60 AH titles back in the day (long ago in a galaxy far away), and what immediately comes to mind as my favorites is Panzerblitz, Russian Campaign, Victory in the Pacific, Storm over Arnhem
I never had, or played, Third Reich, but I have played and liked all of the others. All but Midway are still in my possession. I really liked Submarine and Magic Realm too. I think I missed out on Third Reich because I went down the Europa-series rabbit hole.
My friends and I, back in the day, always liked "Rise & Fall 3rd Reich" because of it's scope. It was like combing all the AH WWII games into 1. Our favorite game, however, was "Verdun" by GDW. The super simple, first edition version. "The game of attrition" .
Best non war game and a great beer and pretzels game for just enough complexity... RailBaron. Essentially Monopoly with trains. Our gaming club, which I joined at the age of 24 at the urging of a 17 year old (who later became my brother in law) still exists. I'm 72 now. And I applaud your inclusion of Wooden Ships and Iron Men...which was intensely playable. And we did craft miniatures for and played on a hex sheet that was 4 times larger than the boards. We even invented rules for transferring fleets from Med to Atlantic and all the way to the Indian Ocean. Sail Ho! (And yes, everyone in the club had Panzerblitz, Panzer Leader and Squad Leader with all the expansions. Which meant we could set up 16 geomorphic boards and play all weekend. Some of us are gone now and I miss them...but we still play in our memories.)
I first want to thank you for your channel. It was finding your channel and watching one of your first videos about the history of Avalon Hill that brought back such pleasant childhood memories that it made my stay in the hospital more tolerable. Now my first experience with Avalon Hill was Tactics II. From that moment on I was hooked. From that moment on I bought or played a lot of Avalon Hill games like Midway, Victory in the Pacific, Arab Israeli Wars, and one of my most favorites Wooden Ships and Iron Men. It was from playing these games that made me think what if I was Spruance, Nagumo, or Nelson how would I have fought this battle? I thought if History class in high school could be taught like that.
It's kind of you to take time to leave a comment. It's really great to hear that our content is stirring up some nostalgia and also helping to pass some time.
I liked WS&IM, and Jutland was good too, but I never found a really satisfactory WW2 or modern naval game. Midway was okay, but only for that specific battle. Are there any games that include both aircraft carriers and submarines?
Just found LT. I still have my original Third Reich, with worn counters. Also PB and PL... I had Squad Leader but I'm not sure if I stored it somewhere. Was introduced to wargaming back in HS around the time SPI came into being. Schoolmates would stick around after class and play SPI's War inthe East. The map was huge and counters plentiful. I also had Terrible Swift Sword, a regiment level simulation of the battle of Gettysburg. In later years this led to the Talonsoft PC tactical games that mimicked AH's tactical series. Ah, the memories.
I liked Squad Leader up until one particular play of a Cross of Iron scenario. The scenario was Debacle at Korosten. My Russian cavalry rode across the board, and my opponent steadily placed tracking markers. After I had moved, he then proceeded to select as his targets the stacks that had leaders, moving them back to specific tracking hexes, then proceeded to roll quite well; well enough to devastate the Russian leadership. Game over essentially. All because he could observe not only EXACTLY where leaders were among a gaggle of horsemen, but where they were GOING to move to, so he could move them back to a PERFECT target hex to crush them. It struck me as utterly stupid. And I get it, there’s likely a correct method to “play” the scenario as a “game” versus how an actual unit might attack a position, but this one scenario really - for me at least - played up the absurdity of the tracking method used for defensive fire. This made embracing ASL much easier for me, as the defensive fire methods used in it are so much better than SL. This is not to say I didn’t enjoy SL, but just that I eventually “hit a wall” on getting further enjoyment from it.
As i recall you could fire on one time on a tracking hex with one or more units combined and that was it , as for me once i got to Cresendo of doom , it was all over for me , im no Einstien
Source of the Nile is another underrated AH game. I loved it as a kid in the 80s, even though it was hard to find other players. Glad to say I discovered I work with a lot of gamers. One is a fan of AH games, Source of the Nile in particular.
Yes, I've heard great things about Breakout Normandy, although there may be some people who disagree that that is the best of the impulse system. I'm looking to do some content on the Raid On Saint Nazaire here on the channel. Stay tuned!
Back in the 1970's I owned six and played seven of these. Sadly, about 15 years ago, a damp basement destroyed them all. Although, I'm certain I'd never get them to the table now, anyhow.
Fortunately, you can find a lot of them online now. But otherwise, storage, especially over many years, is always going to be a factor! Sorry for your loss...
The games I played, still have on my shelf, and still try to introduce to others even today...all got dunked in this poll. Ouch. Empires in Arms, Adv. Civilization, Rail Baron, Speed Circuit. I have several of the others that made the list (or close), but they never slicked like these did for our play groups.
Ah-freaka Korps! Lol 😄 Blitzkrieg & Midway, my first two AH games. Great video! 👍 VitP has to rank as my most played AH game however, still playing it today.
I loved playing third reich ftf. It took several weeks playing all day every saturday (when people had to travel to play) to finish. I remember going over and over the situation between sessions, it felt like a real war was going on. Today I remember it was complex, yet very playable, with lots and lots of counters and stuff.
I customised Brittania to make it more interesting (so for example allowing raids from hill areas) and allowing more scenarios, eg the Romans not simply disappearing early on. I just wish it could be extended to NW France and the Low Countries.
I didn't see 1 of my top 5 games in your list at all. That game is the monster of all games the Longest Day. I still have it and one of my friends and I still play it once a year. We have even broken the game down into different scenarios that we made our selves to the best of our ablities and what info we could get on the Orders of Battle. this way we don't have to play the whole game all at once.
Oh come on! How did you miss Victory In The Pacific? This game was precious. A real grand strategy game. I was in the air force at Bergstrom Air Force Base (it's not there anymore. Now it's the Austin City Airport). We had a wargamer club and this was one of the most popular games. I must have played a hundred different battles with this game. What's more, we were a few miles from the University of Texas, and they had a wargame club, as well. Many of us use to go there and play against the smarter students. I had always hoped they would make a video version of this game, but it never happened. I wish you guys would have given it some love.
Victory in the Pacific was the first war game that I "got." As in, I could see the overall strategy. I'm sure there were plenty of other games that offered that, but VitP was my first. Before that, I usually played wargames as math, getting stacks of numbers to get the best results on combat result tables to "kill" the other guy's numbers.
I had always wanted Midway. then in the late80's I discover Harpoon 3rd ed and entered the world of Miniatures warfare. Still, I often wondered what fun I might have had. And, I was to busy playing squadleader to buy it.
This is a great question that we get asked all the time. So we made a video showing you how to access these games: ua-cam.com/video/C2X6vhmHwq8/v-deo.html&ab_channel=LegendaryTactics
I watched 3R played a lot back in the days, (1990ish), but I was already playing WiF, so I never found the motivation to learn 3R. Btw:...if it's any comfort, "Afrika" and "paprika" is pronounced the same way in Danish.
Perhaps the most disrespected game of all time as well as one of the most unique games is Origins of WW2. It is a kind of area control and strategy game. Very interesting and once again left off another list. There should be more to games than just shooting guns and dropping bombs.
I had/have countless Panzer Blitz & Panzer Leader boards along with 1000s of counters. We would have massive battles! Ahhh..those WERE they days eh, Fritz??? 😊😊
@@LegendaryTactics It's the only way to play! I have 3 copies of Panzer Leader in the loft and for small unit action, 3 copies of Squad leader and 2 of each of the 3 expansions. The games have lasted, the opponents seem to have disappeared....
@@markdolby1436 Interesting. My favorite Panzerblitz scenarios are the minigame scenarios that use only one board. Some appeared in The General, some I made up myself.
Frustrated by Panzer Leader, map not nearly as attractive as Panzerblitz and the combat system shares that clunky and unrealistic feel (throw in a mortar to get that crucial nudge up the CRT to kill a stack of tanks). GMT Operation Dauntless finally does justice to this topic. Panzer leader left here a long time ago. Otherwise: Agree Advanced squad leader although have to wonder if it is still fun (a fight between two guys and a rule book), Loved 3rd Reich and a pretty decent computerised version... great memories....they domnt make 'em like that any more
Did any of y'all ever play Alesia ? (I think it's named that , the battle was there , so I think it is ) It is awesome ! A unique tactical situation , it simulates Julius Ceasar's assault on the hill city of Alesia , trapping Vercingetorix , the leader of the Gauls , there . Too risky to attack the city , Ceasar ENCIRCLES the whole hill and environs in siege , to force surrender . Miles of trenches , palisades and towers are constructed , with an eye to starve out the Gauls . HOWEVER , reinforcements from all the Gaelic clans are on the way ! Ceasar finds himself outnumbered , by BOTH the besieged army , and the larger relieving forces on the way . Do the Romans withdraw ? Heck no ! The Romans instead construct OUTER FACING defenses along their whole perimeter , still planning on starving Alesia to force surrender , but ready to fight a relieving force . This is where the game starts . A great mechanic is off board Gaelic Reinforcements , who can enter on an ever increasing number of edge of board zones , until they can come from everywhere . Can you triumph , as Ceasar did ? Your defenses are good multipliers , but the perimeter must have troops here , no , here ....and there ! And the besieged army can sally forth at any time , attacking the inner edge of your " Tactical Doughnut " ! Really fun game of a unique situation and simulates well the feel of tactical deployment of limited forces , and some great "plug that gap !" moments . The besiegers , themselves are besieged , in ALESIA , by Avalon Hill . If you play the Gauls you must try to get a coordinated attack from the trapped and relief forces . You vastly outnumber the Romans , but their palisades ... their missile towers .... their forts ... that spiked ditch ! There is NO way to communicate with Alesia , but you have to engage the Romans , and hope Vercingetorix responds . There has to be a weak spot. they can't be everywhere at once . The Gauls must place a man , per turn on the boarder zones , which increase both ways to encircle the board ...so the Romans know there are Gauls there , but they don't know HOW MANY are in those zones . They game goes a certain number of turns , and if Vercingetorix is still inside the Doughnut, he must surrender his starving city and kneel before Julius Ceasar , as what really happened . Incredible Battle , incredible game of smaller unit tactics and deployment . Win or lose , it's gonna be a bloody day for the Gauls ! Sorry y'all , I got carried away lol but I thought y'all would find it interesting ! 👍🍻🍻👍
Where is ( Flat Top ) that game was so fun with the hidden movement. Use to take the pages with me to work so i could plan my stratigies for the weekend🙂
Except for Kingmaker I played all of these games. But the list left out the one that became my favorite, 1776. I bought it for the bicentennial. I enjoyed it a lot but it lacked historical realism in that the British could unrealistically coordinate there forces over great distances. AH solved that with a leader module in on one of the issues of The General. The leader counters made 1776 my favorite game. It became more like a simulation. So much so you had to adjust the victory conditions or the British couldn’t win.
Oh my gosh what a blast from the past. Squad Leader and it's expansions were phenomenal, but I, my brother, and our group of nerdy friends logged so many hours on Jutland, King Maker, Wooden Ships & Iron Men, Panzer Blitz and Leader, and others. One game, Ironclads by Yaquinto, I rarely see mentioned anywhere, but it was a great game, very similar to WSIM but set in the Civil War era. Rolling dice and learning history... good times!!!
There are certainly several of these games in my collection, which I've kept despite not playing any of them for decades. Midway was also my first AH game, though I was introduced to the hobby playing Waterloo and a very modified version of Third Reich. As someone who came into the hobby in the 1980s I do feel like its too bad some of their later games didn't resonate as well as the earlier classics. My best friend in high school and I played many hours of Bull Run and Ambush! (released under their Victory Games brand).
Last comment I promise LOL. Have you not seriously played , "Panzer Leader" or own a copy of the game /read the rules? There is a whole last section in the rulebook on converting it into a "Macro Game" using 2 game counter sets and 3 sets of mapboards, and using playing cards to generate a reinforcement timeline. That is why it converted so seamlessly to a larger (div/corp-sized) as it had all the counter numbers/TOE for higher formations, which could be done by combining multi-game copies/counter sets and then could later use Arab Israeli War counters and formations too. I am somewhat confused as to your lack of information on that issue. It is right there in the Panzer Leader Rulebook "Macro-game rules" and Panzer Leader probably was the first board war-game to do so, IIRC . Those rules impressed me , the first time I eve r got to the back end of the rulebook. Yea , no wunder Panzer Leader is 2 LOL
None of the creators on our channel had played either of them. When we were young, it felt like we were the only 2 people alive playing Avalon Hill games. No one at school knew about them. So we were in our lonely little bubble, isolated from the wider hobby. But when we saw the response on the last video, we grabbed a few copies and have started playing it. It will be interesting to see how the game stands up given that our first play will be in 2022. Many people seem to think the best part of the game was the memories rather than the actual mechanics. So our ignorance about these games will soon be cured.
@@LegendaryTactics PL is a good game, I would not rank it so high as rank 2 but it did have the advantage of being AH's biggest seller. Most war-gamers had a copy late 70's - early 80's. But IMO, you'll figure out quickly why, Squad Leader, especially with the Cross of Iron expansion, replaced PL as the goto WWII land combat war-game in the early 1980's
Great video and great choices. A couple of good ones that seemed to miss the list entirely: Caesar at Alesia, and PanzerArmee Afrika. PAA might have missed the list because it was really a Strategy & Tactics magazine game that was purchased by Avalon Hill. AH kept PAA exactly the same as the S&T version, except they mounted the board and made it a bit more colorful, and they changed the British counters from dark brown to bright red (a somewhat whimsical nod to the old "redcoat" days, apparently).
Choosing my favourite AH game is both a matter of choice and a matter of time. I LOVED Squad leader when it came out (I have one of the blue box versions), it was only years later that I realised just how clunky the whole turn sequence was and how unrealistic the near perfect situational awareness each commander had, even with hidden placement, snipers and concealment rules. At my age (ie "old") I tend to go more for how a game "feels", and in that case my favourites by far include VITP, Advanced Civ and Flight Leader. I do still love SL, PL and PB (and AIW), but more for the memories now.
I've played all except #1. I think my brother managed to get me to play one scenario of Squad Leader once, but it seemed kind of tedious to me, kind of like Tobruk but with infantry instead of tanks. I have fond memories of all the other 9.
BTW, my brothers and I play weekly online in real time using Vassal and with FaceTime as our video interface. We live in different parts of the country. It's great reliving our teen years.
You doing TTS? Yea, the only game I figured out "mostly" on TTS was War of the Ring by Fantasy Flight , none of the AH games. Oh yea, and Ogre , which has it is own very friendly UI format by Steve Jackson games . I gave up long ago learning computer new syntax/and shortcuts. DOS land did a number on me, I still don't like comp programming because of DOS.
@@LegendaryTactics Magic Realm was arguably a failure of programmed instruction. It's actually quite a good game when played with most or all the rules, but you have to wade through all the early scenarios first. People who liked fantasy games generally ended up with D&D or other FRPGs.
Played King Maker hundreds of times. Went to Windsor Castle and in the Knight's Hall there was a display of coats of arms. I pointed to them, "Mowbray, Neville, Plantaganet, Beaufort..." to the amazement of the tour guide.
Will you be backing Kingmaker 2 on Kickstarter?
@@LegendaryTactics Another game client I've never heard of. I'll check it out.
Kingmaker: The Royal Re-Launch was released by Gibson Games in mid 2023.
Love it
Should do a survey on how many players didn't own cats for years because of their experiences with meticulously stacked counters and an overactive inquisitive feline in their formative years of gaming.
Completing a multi-day play of any game while also owning 1 or more cats without a reset or bundles of fur-wire on the board is a victory in itself along with the applicable bragging rights.
LOL Thats exactly why i didnt get a cat until years later when everything was "on computer"
Lol. So ridiculous, but so true.
Just finding this out!
We had no problems with our cat. Of course, he was an outdoor cat who was not allowed into the house.
One game I did not see was "Wizards Quest"* on the list which was very simple/fast , beer and pretzels game by AH. Actually a very fun game and could have 6players. Much lighter and very different from other AH games. We played it a good bit , when we had many people(teenagers- drinking and smoking LOL) and did not want get bogged down in a serious game . A 'Beer and Pretzels game " very true, and I think that is even in the editor's/designer's comments in the rulebook. If you missed this game and have several potential players , I would suggest buying it, very cheap on BBG.
Nuclear War was another but that was not Avalon Hill.
And I guess there is a silly argument that old 'Fortress America"by Milton Bradley could now be called an AH game LOL. If it is, I'd rank it below Squad Leader :)
*note: Wizard's Quest is basically a simplified Risk(or Castle Risk;) with some fantasy/D&D elements
If you really want Risk meets D&D , you want "Divine Right" by TSR. Which IMO is to equal to Squad Leader but DR is a multi-player game, and you really need 4-5 players to see it at its best. Cost now is an easy $200-250+ if you can even find a copy at all . If you EVER see a copy of Divine Right* in a thrift store/second hand book store/yard sale BUY IT! You have found a diamond :). Play it some and/ or make a few $100 selling it. I might trade one copy of original Divine Right for Squad Leader + CoI+ +CoD +AoV, (all complete) that is how rare it is. But I digress, Wizard's Quest was a cool AH game, now forgotten :(
I still have my Wizard's Quest game and taught my sons to play it years ago.
Do you think it, better than Risk or not?
Somehow, no one mentioned it in the original video. I'm glad you've remedied that now.
During the 1990s when I was a fireman in Liverpool UK, I somehow managed to interest a few of the fellers in boardgames when we were on "stand down". Some great memories of KINGMAKER with huge dollops of alliances, backstabbing, intrigue and merriment inbetween "shouts". Probably my happiest memories of communal boardgame playing.
That sounds like so much fun! Thanks for sharing
When my brother and I were teenagers, he brought home copies of Avalon Hill's Midway, Luftwaffe and The Russian Campaign, which we played for hours. Eventually we found Squad Leader which became our favorite game (along with SPI's War in Europe at the extreme other end of scope :-)).
Thanks for the video. It brought up very pleasant memories.
My bro and my cousin played the scenrio where the Americans are attacking a German pillbox network , well it took my cousin 2 + hours to set up the German defense and it was a good one ! But Americans 1st prep fire on the 1st turn he shook a 3 on the dice which called for a MC my cousin then threw a 12 ! Which caused the 10-3 leader to break !! 3 hrs of setup for 5min of game 😀
Diplomacy didn't make the list? What kind of monsters voted on this? ^^
Grognards my friend. And those who can be charitably considered the 'difficult' end of the spectrum.
This is a HUGE omission. Unbelievable that such a fine game came 11th. If I make my personal list, I'll be sure it's #1.
I'm starting to think many wargamers haven't played Diplomacy much or at all.
My own experience was perhaps quite atypical. I went to high school at the Taipei American School during the Vietnam War, so most of my fellow high schoolers were from military families. As I mentioned on another video, the English lounge in the high school had a Diplomacy map painted on one wall, and there was always a game going on, going at one or sometimes two moves per day. Each country was played by an individual or sometimes by a team of two or three; negotiations happened throughout the day, sometimes in the lounge, sometimes in other classes or in breaks. This was pretty much my first war game, so I've always thought of Diplomacy as the quintessential war game, but a lot of people had difficulty coming up with even one opponent for war games, let alone 6 for Diplomacy.
Excellent list. My older games have held up very well. Biggest bummer when Avalon Hill went under. Wonder what Hasbro is sitting on and not developing also.
On another note. I recently lost one of my best friends who was also my main Avalon Hill opponent. We loved Midway, but our competition was between Tactics 2 and Blitzkrieg. I could never beat him at Tactics 2. He could never beat me at Blitzkrieg. Shout out to my best bud Joe.
Sorry for your loss. It's wonderful that you shared some great experiences together at the table. Thanks for sharing your story and commemorating him here. If we ever do a game of Tactics II on the channel, we'll dedicate it to Joe.
Found some solace in Multi Man Publishing and Avalanche Press.
I STILL use the 'Wooden Ship's and Iron Men' ruleset along with the excellent scenarios (and a few 'monster' ones) to add flavor to existing miniature rules for that era (looking at you 'Master and Commander') and using the miniatures for which such a complex game was never intended (i.e. the depressingly discontinued WizKids 'Pirates!' CCG).
It's awesome how this game was so customizable.
WizKids Pirates was a lot of fun. Still break it out from time to time (pun intended).
These games are so good. I tended to like the simpler games like War at Sea and Diplomacy because they are easier for friends to pick up who are not hard core into military sims. To this day, I still remember the names of all of the Italian, British, German and American warships. I like Squad Leader, the one where you put a WW2 squad together with individual specialists like BAR operator. I also had Basketball simulator, believe it or not. It was quite good. Yes, Midway was great. So was Panzer Blitz and Panzer Leader.
I'm with you on the lighter Avalon Hill fare. Our other two creators like the more simulation-like games, but for me, Diplomacy is number 1.
SL was not about assembling a squad, that's Ambush or Up Front .. In SL you had squad counters and approx a couple companies to manage
@@pascaldifolco4611 Ambush! That’s what I was thinking of. Thank you.
@@LegendaryTactics Diplomacy is "lighter"? I mean, the mechanical rules are simple, but coordinating coalitions can get complex, even before the backstabbing.
First of these games I played was Panzer Leader. The game was Celles, and I was playing as the Germans. I'd never played before. My opponent moved first, and ran his tanks straight into my 88s! Have been a fan ever since.
That sounds intensely satisfying.
@@LegendaryTactics Oh yeah.
Surprised not to hear D-Day mentioned. It is a fun game, very simple rules. Like some other titles, it was not true to its focus, rather a liberation of France versus a simulation of D-Day (they later released The Longest Day, one of their most expensive games). Squad Leader is still a favorite, as is PanzerBlitz. I was leaving for Korea in 1994 when the Great American Civil War campaign games were coming out. Which I looked forward to. At the Pentagon in 1999, I learned that Avalon Hill was no more, to be taken over by Hasbro. It felt like an old friend had died.
Yes, it was sad, but at least you have lots of happy memories
I remember playing Squad Leader with several friends. At one point we made little "blood" counters (drawn on blanks) that we would put down whenever an infantry unit was eliminated. Playing the first scenarios of the Stalingrad street fights left a real mess on the board.
A bit surprised that Russian Campaign didn't appear on here.
It was the 18th overall video. Almost made the list.
Splat Leader
"Thunder at Cassino" was one of my favorites. Same system of the also great "Storm Over Arnhem". "Russian Campaign" was also played a lot.
Thanks for bringing that one to my attention. I haven't played Thunder at Cassino.
Breakout Normandy, is a similar system, but with more time pressure and logistics. Both of these factors make it my favorite.
Played Wooden Ship and Iron Man countless times. I even made my own rules and scenarios for the post Napoleonic era (my favourite being the 2-day Battle of Hampton Roads with rules for the ironclads). The game felt historically accurate to me at that time, but later I found that the command and control aspect is not incorporated well into the system and thus there is not much motivation to maintain a line of battle. The game inspired a number of successors like Close Action and it has been superseded by them. Still the game is very entertaining and exciting to play.
Well, great games like Close Action have to stand on the shoulders on giants most times. And WS&IM is one of those giants! Did you play any other games by AH?
Did you notice rule VIII.A.4.a? "The ship being fired upon must be the closest in number of hexes to the firing ship of all ships in the [broadside's] field of fire". To ensure that the closest ship is not a friendly ship, which would block firing on any enemy ships, a line ahead formation is almost required.
Interesting, Still have 8 out of 10 of the top games. Also have most of the honorable mentions Still. Guadalcanal was my first in the mid 70's though.
Nice! I have yet to try Guadalcanal, but I am hoping to use the channel as an excuse to give it a go!
I am glad Blitzkrieg got mentioned, It took Tactics II to its logical end on a hexagonal map board, Wish I still had my/a copy. Midway was my first board war-game. The first one I bought with my own money was Starship Troopers.
Great game. Very even
@@JeepWrangler1957 Which one?LOL
@@chrisperrien7055 Blitzkrieg
@@JeepWrangler1957 Sorry Iahave been fighting edit for a mintues. plus being frunk ,
Yea, Blitzkrieg was imbalanced like Tactics II
@@JeepWrangler1957 UH -1 crew chief?
My dad flew Huey's in Nam
My god father died flying Huey's in Nam
My bestest Plt Sgt in the army was a Huey door-gunner in Nam.
Purty good name, you walk with big shoes.
I loved Kingmaker as a kid. Sadly often played solo. I have a fond memory of bringing it to the attention of another war gamer I met in grad school. We played it while vacationing together with our wives.
Nice! It's hard to find opponents, but it's so amazing when you do!
Squad Leader has been my "drug of choice " ever since it first came out in the late 70s.
Did you ever foray into ASL?
@@LegendaryTactics Ever since it came out in the mid-80s. It is the greatest wargame ever made. ❤️
Recently bought the slightly updated version of Dune. Have not played it yet, but I owned the original AH game (and Cosmic Encounter) back in the day, and am convinced it just is a matter of time. I also got hold of Machiavelli (2. ed.) , bought the 1 ed. in Londan back in the 80´es. The nice thing is that you can claim that the only reason you lost (unlike Diplomacy) is bad luck with plague and hunger.
My greates memories with AH games however are with Flat Top. Our gaming club used to hold events in the summer time with Flat Top played in 3 rooms for most of a week. One room with the Americans, one with Japaneese and one with Game-masters. The hourly turns in daytime used to take approximately one hour to write down and process for the GM´s. So we played almost realtime each day from 10 am to the last bus departing in my town at 0.20 am. Not much happened at night in the game, so those turns went quickly.
Flat top had a decent showing. It ranked 22nd on the list.
Luftwaffe had incredibly good box art. The round pieces were also very nice. I couldn't understand the game itself for the longest time, though - until I realized it was more of an air traffic control game than anything else.
The cover art is pretty cool for that one. That's an interesting view of the game, but whatever helps you understand how to play and get it to the table often is a good thing!
I rember the very 1st game i played ! Got the rules wrong thought when you went tru the 20 game turn the planes would be added as we went tru the 1st turn of the game we had every counter on the board !!! What a debacle that was left us scratching our heads for awhile 😄
Might have missed it, but I didn't see "Patton's Best" on the list. When it came out. I was struck at how much it felt like being in a tank. As a former tanker in the Army Reserves, it is probably the best game for making you realize that the crew of your vehicle is one of the more important factors, as is luck. Boring days with no combat come to be prized, since the days with lots of contact tend to see you lose your tank or some of your crew, and having to replace someone who has been with you for the entire campaign can be jarring.
Games like Tobruk, Squad Leader, or Advanced Squad leader deal with groups of tanks and men, but Patton's Best boils it all down to one tank - yours - and treats the other tanks in your unit and the enemy tanks you face as objects, rather than vehicles with individual crewmembers inside like yours.
You didn't miss it. It wasn't mentioned much in the comments. Sounds like it might have been a good SPI game with its simulation value.
I am so glad to have stumbled across your channel. The videos bring back so many memories from the 70s and 80s. At some point in time I owned nearly every game you mention. It is shocking to me now how much money and time I had spent. Today my collection is a mere fraction of what it was decades ago. I have 3 tall bookcases filled with games still laying around waiting to find a shelf. Life was grand back then with my 3 brothers. Time to go sit and remember great times.
I wonder how many basements have shelves of great games like these, just waiting to be rediscovered....
We used to refer to playing Wooden Ships as "spreading the sands"!
"Would you like to spread the sands?"
How did you come up with that phrase?
@@LegendaryTactics When sailing ships prepared for battle they spread sand on the decks to keep from slipping on the blood after battle commenced.
My first game was Battle of the Bulge. At a garage sale. I was 10 or 11. None of the rules made sense until I (re-read) the 5X movement on roads. Then, everything made sense.
I wish that board games were still so plentiful at garage sales. Unfortunately, they get snapped up so quickly these days and the rules are so much more accessible.
Great ! That was the first one I ever played . Still have it , too !
My fav is "Alesia" , which I describe in a Comment on the main thread . I
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Interesting that Diplomacy was not among the players' favorites. I guess I have to assume that most people never got together the 7 players needed for a good game.
And everyone who has gotten seven friends around the table to play Diplomacy now only has three friends :).
I always loved chit and hex war games. While in grad school I had the distinct pleasure to play Third Reich. I am glad it made it onto this list
I'd like to give that one a try at some point - it's kind of intimidating though!
I was introduced to the Ariel edition of Kingmaker and still have my 2nd Ed Avalon Hill version with the larger map.
Gibson Games is about to release "Kingmaker II" on Kickstarter at the end of this month. It will have a double sided map, one side will be the original game with the extra cards etc from the General Magazine. The other side will be for a new quicker playing version of the game.
with regard to extra cards. The Avalon Hill version that I had (1970s) had an extra card that was blank, so I drew it up as "Scots Pipers" with a troop value. Even drew a surprisingly good graphic of the bag pipers on it.
I hadn't heard about the Kickstarter yet. I see it's set for September 26th. Dang it. Now I need to follow that.
There were a couple that I own that I noticed that were nowhere on the list. I would expect as they are rare (Dark Emperor and Firepower).
However, one that I personally know several people own but is not talked about often, Wizard's Quest. I always felt that was a good "gateway" game for non-gamers. Kind of how Settlers of Catan is now.
Yes, it was apparently a simple game to learn, and quite fun. I haven't tried it yet, nor have I tried Dark Emperor and Firepower, sadly...
@@LegendaryTactics There is a little *.*msi file out there of Wizard's Quest. I downloaded it years ago. Real small file but it is the complete game for PC (1,900KB).
I agree with your list but for me I wold put Third Reich first because it won numerous awards back then including the Charles S. Roberts Award. Squad leader should be second. It is the best tactical game ever made. I spent over 10k hours with both games back in the USAF in an undisclosed location. Never played Advanced Squad leader because I had already invested much in Squad Leader with all its add on modules like Cross of Iron,Crescendo of Doom ,G.I. Anvil of Victory. Also Squad Leader (with ASL) sold over 1m copies.
Nice to see you back Vortyx. It seems like a lot of USAF and military folk have played (and trained?) with these games.
That was ASLs downfall for me... after so many expansions, all the additional rules started to break my brain. But it had a long and distinguished run!!
I had about 60 AH titles back in the day (long ago in a galaxy far away), and what immediately comes to mind as my favorites is Panzerblitz, Russian Campaign, Victory in the Pacific, Storm over Arnhem
All classic games! Which titles did you hang on to?
Will you consider doing a video of the Feast For Crows DLC as House Arryn?
How's this? ua-cam.com/video/r1496Tp7fqE/v-deo.html
The Longest Day, the most epic and beautiful map EVER
That's a huge map!
I never had, or played, Third Reich, but I have played and liked all of the others. All but Midway are still in my possession.
I really liked Submarine and Magic Realm too.
I think I missed out on Third Reich because I went down the Europa-series rabbit hole.
I am in the reverse position. Only Midway remains.
My friends and I, back in the day, always liked "Rise & Fall 3rd Reich" because of it's scope. It was like combing all the AH WWII games into 1. Our favorite game, however, was "Verdun" by GDW. The super simple, first edition version. "The game of attrition" .
Thanks for leaving your mark Gronk.
Best non war game and a great beer and pretzels game for just enough complexity... RailBaron. Essentially Monopoly with trains. Our gaming club, which I joined at the age of 24 at the urging of a 17 year old (who later became my brother in law) still exists. I'm 72 now. And I applaud your inclusion of Wooden Ships and Iron Men...which was intensely playable. And we did craft miniatures for and played on a hex sheet that was 4 times larger than the boards. We even invented rules for transferring fleets from Med to Atlantic and all the way to the Indian Ocean. Sail Ho! (And yes, everyone in the club had Panzerblitz, Panzer Leader and Squad Leader with all the expansions. Which meant we could set up 16 geomorphic boards and play all weekend. Some of us are gone now and I miss them...but we still play in our memories.)
These games have really stuck with a whole generation of gamers. With 3-D printing, Wooden Ships could really look spectacular.
Rail Baron was an excellent casual game.
I first want to thank you for your channel. It was finding your channel and watching one of your first videos about the history of Avalon Hill that brought back such pleasant childhood memories that it made my stay in the hospital more tolerable. Now my first experience with Avalon Hill was Tactics II. From that moment on I was hooked. From that moment on I bought or played a lot of Avalon Hill games like Midway, Victory in the Pacific, Arab Israeli Wars, and one of my most favorites Wooden Ships and Iron Men. It was from playing these games that made me think what if I was Spruance, Nagumo, or Nelson how would I have fought this battle? I thought if History class in high school could be taught like that.
It's kind of you to take time to leave a comment. It's really great to hear that our content is stirring up some nostalgia and also helping to pass some time.
I liked WS&IM, and Jutland was good too, but I never found a really satisfactory WW2 or modern naval game. Midway was okay, but only for that specific battle. Are there any games that include both aircraft carriers and submarines?
Just found LT. I still have my original Third Reich, with worn counters. Also PB and PL... I had Squad Leader but I'm not sure if I stored it somewhere. Was introduced to wargaming back in HS around the time SPI came into being. Schoolmates would stick around after class and play SPI's War inthe East. The map was huge and counters plentiful. I also had Terrible Swift Sword, a regiment level simulation of the battle of Gettysburg. In later years this led to the Talonsoft PC tactical games that mimicked AH's tactical series. Ah, the memories.
Glad you discovered us Cuddlefangs. So what's your verdict? Spi or Avalon Hill for the win?
I liked Squad Leader up until one particular play of a Cross of Iron scenario. The scenario was Debacle at Korosten. My Russian cavalry rode across the board, and my opponent steadily placed tracking markers. After I had moved, he then proceeded to select as his targets the stacks that had leaders, moving them back to specific tracking hexes, then proceeded to roll quite well; well enough to devastate the Russian leadership. Game over essentially. All because he could observe not only EXACTLY where leaders were among a gaggle of horsemen, but where they were GOING to move to, so he could move them back to a PERFECT target hex to crush them. It struck me as utterly stupid. And I get it, there’s likely a correct method to “play” the scenario as a “game” versus how an actual unit might attack a position, but this one scenario really - for me at least - played up the absurdity of the tracking method used for defensive fire. This made embracing ASL much easier for me, as the defensive fire methods used in it are so much better than SL.
This is not to say I didn’t enjoy SL, but just that I eventually “hit a wall” on getting further enjoyment from it.
As i recall you could fire on one time on a tracking hex with one or more units combined and that was it , as for me once i got to Cresendo of doom , it was all over for me , im no Einstien
Source of the Nile is another underrated AH game. I loved it as a kid in the 80s, even though it was hard to find other players. Glad to say I discovered I work with a lot of gamers. One is a fan of AH games, Source of the Nile in particular.
That's great! I've heard that is a fun, but harsh, game!
Breakout Normandy should be mentioned as well. The best of their impulse games. And for solo games, Raid On St. Nazaire is fantastic.
Yes, I've heard great things about Breakout Normandy, although there may be some people who disagree that that is the best of the impulse system. I'm looking to do some content on the Raid On Saint Nazaire here on the channel. Stay tuned!
My SL playing buddy and I loved the Crescendo of Doom extension... We played some marvellous "What if" scenarios...
That's awesome! Glad to hear you have such great memories!!
Back in the 1970's I owned six and played seven of these. Sadly, about 15 years ago, a damp basement destroyed them all. Although, I'm certain I'd never get them to the table now, anyhow.
Fortunately, you can find a lot of them online now. But otherwise, storage, especially over many years, is always going to be a factor! Sorry for your loss...
The games I played, still have on my shelf, and still try to introduce to others even today...all got dunked in this poll. Ouch. Empires in Arms, Adv. Civilization, Rail Baron, Speed Circuit. I have several of the others that made the list (or close), but they never slicked like these did for our play groups.
I confess I haven't played those.
Ah-freaka Korps! Lol 😄 Blitzkrieg & Midway, my first two AH games. Great video! 👍 VitP has to rank as my most played AH game however, still playing it today.
Thanks for checking it out and taking time to leave your thoughts.
I loved playing third reich ftf. It took several weeks playing all day every saturday (when people had to travel to play) to finish. I remember going over and over the situation between sessions, it felt like a real war was going on. Today I remember it was complex, yet very playable, with lots and lots of counters and stuff.
That sounds like an epic experience!
I customised Brittania to make it more interesting (so for example allowing raids from hill areas) and allowing more scenarios, eg the Romans not simply disappearing early on. I just wish it could be extended to NW France and the Low Countries.
I have never played it, so I'll have to agree with you by default!
Air Assault on Crete, my first and still my favorite.
I have the "re-make" - it was part of No Retreat: North African Front as a "bonus game". It seemed pretty neat, but it was fiddly.
Blitzkreeg (pronunciation) 👍
Fair enough!
I didn't see 1 of my top 5 games in your list at all. That game is the monster of all games the Longest Day. I still have it and one of my friends and I still play it once a year. We have even broken the game down into different scenarios that we made our selves to the best of our ablities and what info we could get on the Orders of Battle. this way we don't have to play the whole game all at once.
Thanks for sharing this title. Sounds awesome.
i loved the original Kingmaker..bought the new version but cant seem to get into it!!!!
Oh no! What changed?
Oh come on! How did you miss Victory In The Pacific? This game was precious. A real grand strategy game. I was in the air force at Bergstrom Air Force Base (it's not there anymore. Now it's the Austin City Airport). We had a wargamer club and this was one of the most popular games. I must have played a hundred different battles with this game. What's more, we were a few miles from the University of Texas, and they had a wargame club, as well. Many of us use to go there and play against the smarter students. I had always hoped they would make a video version of this game, but it never happened. I wish you guys would have given it some love.
I was simply the data cruncher. Victory in the Pacific came in 17th. So, at least it's top 20.
Victory in the Pacific was the first war game that I "got." As in, I could see the overall strategy. I'm sure there were plenty of other games that offered that, but VitP was my first. Before that, I usually played wargames as math, getting stacks of numbers to get the best results on combat result tables to "kill" the other guy's numbers.
I had always wanted Midway. then in the late80's I discover Harpoon 3rd ed and entered the world of Miniatures warfare. Still, I often wondered what fun I might have had. And, I was to busy playing squadleader to buy it.
Have you tried Memoir 44?
@@LegendaryTactics No, but ill look into it.
Played Afrika Korps by mail while in college. Good memories.
Nice!
Pardon my ignorance, but I see digital versions of some of these games in the video. Where and how can you find these?
This is a great question that we get asked all the time. So we made a video showing you how to access these games: ua-cam.com/video/C2X6vhmHwq8/v-deo.html&ab_channel=LegendaryTactics
I watched 3R played a lot back in the days, (1990ish), but I was already playing WiF, so I never found the motivation to learn 3R.
Btw:...if it's any comfort, "Afrika" and "paprika" is pronounced the same way in Danish.
Yes! This is very much the confirmation I needed. Thank you. I now have a rebuttal. After all, I have Dutch ancestry about 5 generations back.
Agreed on the first 3, now in #4 I would have put W&P or PB then WSIM
Have you heard about the War and Peace app coming out?
Perhaps the most disrespected game of all time as well as one of the most unique games is Origins of WW2. It is a kind of area control and strategy game. Very interesting and once again left off another list. There should be more to games than just shooting guns and dropping bombs.
Yes,!I have heard that the game is quite good, actually. I believe Jim Dunnigan designed it
@@LegendaryTactics very good game. Stuka Joe did a video on it if you want to check it out.
I had/have countless Panzer Blitz & Panzer Leader boards along with 1000s of counters.
We would have massive battles! Ahhh..those WERE they days eh, Fritz??? 😊😊
Epic.
@@LegendaryTactics It's the only way to play! I have 3 copies of Panzer Leader in the loft and for small unit action, 3 copies of Squad leader and 2 of each of the 3 expansions. The games have lasted, the opponents seem to have disappeared....
@@markdolby1436 Interesting. My favorite Panzerblitz scenarios are the minigame scenarios that use only one board. Some appeared in The General, some I made up myself.
It's not pronounced Afreeka? I'll be damned, 50 years of "being impressed" by know it all big time gamers down the drain, LOL.
The worst part is, we never corrected our own pronunciation even after we grew up.
@@LegendaryTactics I played Dip a few times with a guy who pedantically insisted on pronouncing the Austrian supply center as Budapesht.
Frustrated by Panzer Leader, map not nearly as attractive as Panzerblitz and the combat system shares that clunky and unrealistic feel (throw in a mortar to get that crucial nudge up the CRT to kill a stack of tanks). GMT Operation Dauntless finally does justice to this topic. Panzer leader left here a long time ago. Otherwise: Agree Advanced squad leader although have to wonder if it is still fun (a fight between two guys and a rule book), Loved 3rd Reich and a pretty decent computerised version... great memories....they domnt make 'em like that any more
Did any of y'all ever play Alesia ? (I think it's named that , the battle was there , so I think it is ) It is awesome ! A unique tactical situation , it simulates Julius Ceasar's assault on the hill city of Alesia , trapping Vercingetorix , the leader of the Gauls , there . Too risky to attack the city , Ceasar ENCIRCLES the whole hill and environs in siege , to force surrender . Miles of trenches , palisades and towers are constructed , with an eye to starve out the Gauls . HOWEVER , reinforcements from all the Gaelic clans are on the way ! Ceasar finds himself outnumbered , by BOTH the besieged army , and the larger relieving forces on the way . Do the Romans withdraw ? Heck no ! The Romans instead construct OUTER FACING defenses along their whole perimeter , still planning on starving Alesia to force surrender , but ready to fight a relieving force . This is where the game starts .
A great mechanic is off board Gaelic Reinforcements , who can enter on an ever increasing number of edge of board zones , until they can come from everywhere . Can you triumph , as Ceasar did ? Your defenses are good multipliers , but the perimeter must have troops here , no , here ....and there ! And the besieged army can sally forth at any time , attacking the inner edge of your " Tactical Doughnut " ! Really fun game of a unique situation and simulates well the feel of tactical deployment of limited forces , and some great "plug that gap !" moments . The besiegers , themselves are besieged , in ALESIA , by Avalon Hill .
If you play the Gauls you must try to get a coordinated attack from the trapped and relief forces . You vastly outnumber the Romans , but their palisades ... their missile towers .... their forts ... that spiked ditch !
There is NO way to communicate with Alesia , but you have to engage the Romans , and hope Vercingetorix responds .
There has to be a weak spot. they can't be everywhere at once . The Gauls must place a man , per turn on the boarder zones , which increase both ways to encircle the board ...so the Romans know there are Gauls there , but they don't know HOW MANY are in those zones . They game goes a certain number of turns , and if Vercingetorix is still inside the Doughnut, he must surrender his starving city and kneel before Julius Ceasar , as what really happened . Incredible Battle , incredible game of smaller unit tactics and deployment . Win or lose , it's gonna be a bloody day for the Gauls !
Sorry y'all , I got carried away lol but I thought y'all would find it interesting !
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Where is ( Flat Top ) that game was so fun with the hidden movement. Use to take the pages with me to work so i could plan my stratigies for the weekend🙂
Yes, it was mysteriously missing from the top of the list
Wow !!! You are a gamer !!
Except for Kingmaker I played all of these games. But the list left out the one that became my favorite, 1776. I bought it for the bicentennial. I enjoyed it a lot but it lacked historical realism in that the British could unrealistically coordinate there forces over great distances. AH solved that with a leader module in on one of the issues of The General. The leader counters made 1776 my favorite game. It became more like a simulation. So much so you had to adjust the victory conditions or the British couldn’t win.
My brother and I owned and played many of these games back in the70's. We spent many hours our bedroom floor with them. Great video, short and sweet.
These videos are such a great trip down memory lane. And yes, I love Kingmaker, although I don't think I ever won a game. 😄
Few game experiences can match the thrill of playing Empires in Arms when outguessing one's opponent in a tactical choice.
........this might have been better labelled as AH's best WW2 games !!!
Are there any other kinds of Avalon Hill games????
@@LegendaryTactics Starship Troopers and 1914, but both were kind of idiosyncratic.
"Paprika" Korps! Lol :)
Blame it on our Canadian ness
Yeah my favorite is Diplomacy too!
Great taste.
Oh my gosh what a blast from the past. Squad Leader and it's expansions were phenomenal, but I, my brother, and our group of nerdy friends logged so many hours on Jutland, King Maker, Wooden Ships & Iron Men, Panzer Blitz and Leader, and others. One game, Ironclads by Yaquinto, I rarely see mentioned anywhere, but it was a great game, very similar to WSIM but set in the Civil War era. Rolling dice and learning history... good times!!!
Thanks for adding Ironclads to the conversation.
I enjoyed France 1940, but a very one sided game
Sounds like it should have been an SPI game.
It had scenarios. The Dyle Plan scenario makes a good solo game.
Still confused about asl being so low
I think many people struggled with the additional rules and the extra headiness that ASL brought. ASL is definitely intimidating.
There are certainly several of these games in my collection, which I've kept despite not playing any of them for decades. Midway was also my first AH game, though I was introduced to the hobby playing Waterloo and a very modified version of Third Reich. As someone who came into the hobby in the 1980s I do feel like its too bad some of their later games didn't resonate as well as the earlier classics. My best friend in high school and I played many hours of Bull Run and Ambush! (released under their Victory Games brand).
Ambush! is definitely an under-rated game.
Last comment I promise LOL.
Have you not seriously played , "Panzer Leader" or own a copy of the game /read the rules? There is a whole last section in the rulebook on converting it into a "Macro Game" using 2 game counter sets and 3 sets of mapboards, and using playing cards to generate a reinforcement timeline. That is why it converted so seamlessly to a larger (div/corp-sized) as it had all the counter numbers/TOE for higher formations, which could be done by combining multi-game copies/counter sets and then could later use Arab Israeli War counters and formations too.
I am somewhat confused as to your lack of information on that issue. It is right there in the Panzer Leader Rulebook "Macro-game rules" and Panzer Leader probably was the first board war-game to do so, IIRC . Those rules impressed me , the first time I eve r got to the back end of the rulebook.
Yea , no wunder Panzer Leader is 2 LOL
None of the creators on our channel had played either of them. When we were young, it felt like we were the only 2 people alive playing Avalon Hill games. No one at school knew about them. So we were in our lonely little bubble, isolated from the wider hobby. But when we saw the response on the last video, we grabbed a few copies and have started playing it. It will be interesting to see how the game stands up given that our first play will be in 2022. Many people seem to think the best part of the game was the memories rather than the actual mechanics. So our ignorance about these games will soon be cured.
@@LegendaryTactics PL is a good game, I would not rank it so high as rank 2 but it did have the advantage of being AH's biggest seller. Most war-gamers had a copy late 70's - early 80's. But IMO, you'll figure out quickly why, Squad Leader, especially with the Cross of Iron expansion, replaced PL as the goto WWII land combat war-game in the early 1980's
Great video and great choices. A couple of good ones that seemed to miss the list entirely: Caesar at Alesia, and PanzerArmee Afrika. PAA might have missed the list because it was really a Strategy & Tactics magazine game that was purchased by Avalon Hill. AH kept PAA exactly the same as the S&T version, except they mounted the board and made it a bit more colorful, and they changed the British counters from dark brown to bright red (a somewhat whimsical nod to the old "redcoat" days, apparently).
Thanks for sharing!
1776.
A classic choice!
What about their sport games?
Interesting comment - SPI was not particularly known for their sports games. Which ones do you recommend?
pronounced Bitzkreeg
That's probably our Canadian accents acting up again
Such a great vid. Nuff said.
Much appreciated. Thank you.
Amoeba Wars? C'mon Man!
Well, this was based on viewer feedback, so get out there and tell everyone what a great game that is!
Caesar ~ Alesia. Say no more.
Any game to do with Julius is a winner for me.
well I still have all of the top ten!😃
Impressive. You have impeccable taste.
"Blitz Craig" ???
That must be our Canadian accents shining through :)
Choosing my favourite AH game is both a matter of choice and a matter of time. I LOVED Squad leader when it came out (I have one of the blue box versions), it was only years later that I realised just how clunky the whole turn sequence was and how unrealistic the near perfect situational awareness each commander had, even with hidden placement, snipers and concealment rules. At my age (ie "old") I tend to go more for how a game "feels", and in that case my favourites by far include VITP, Advanced Civ and Flight Leader. I do still love SL, PL and PB (and AIW), but more for the memories now.
Civ and Advanced Civ both got some love. Not enough to break top 20, but there are definitely some fans out there.
Viewers oftem want The Theory of Games (Theory of Games and Economic Behavior [von Neumann and Morgenstern] et al) compressed and made playable.
Sqd Ldr, was revolutionary.
It was! How far did you go down the trail?
Titan!
I love the boxart on that game.
Dune!
Dune is getting a lot of votes. It must have done something right.
Russian Front was my favorite. Great list!
Thanks, but I can't take credit for the games. Only for the data crunching.
I played all but 3 of these games. all awesome games and blitz was my first one. Another awesome game was submarine.
Impressive stats.
I've played all except #1. I think my brother managed to get me to play one scenario of Squad Leader once, but it seemed kind of tedious to me, kind of like Tobruk but with infantry instead of tanks. I have fond memories of all the other 9.
Yea I have to agree with your list and Tactics 2 honorable mention 🤔
@John Grigg mine also !
I have a lead on a physical copy of Tactics II. Thanks to these comments, I will have to pursue it.
Still trying to figure out how to play these games on my computer.
BTW, my brothers and I play weekly online in real time using Vassal and with FaceTime as our video interface. We live in different parts of the country. It's great reliving our teen years.
You doing TTS? Yea, the only game I figured out "mostly" on TTS was War of the Ring by Fantasy Flight , none of the AH games. Oh yea, and Ogre , which has it is own very friendly UI format by Steve Jackson games .
I gave up long ago learning computer new syntax/and shortcuts. DOS land did a number on me, I still don't like comp programming because of DOS.
Here's how you get these modules: ua-cam.com/video/C2X6vhmHwq8/v-deo.html&ab_channel=LegendaryTactics
Magic Realm
Magic Realm only got 4 votes in the last video. It's not getting the love!
What makes it worthy of mention?
@@LegendaryTactics Magic Realm was arguably a failure of programmed instruction. It's actually quite a good game when played with most or all the rules, but you have to wade through all the early scenarios first. People who liked fantasy games generally ended up with D&D or other FRPGs.
😀thanks
Thanks for watching.