I just got a stock run purple S-line DD1 173.3g and an orange/blue '23 GG Halo Wraith 176.7g. I haven't thrown them yet but in the "parting line height" comparison the lower part of the wing's leading edge is higher on the DD1 by almost the same amount that the Wraith is higher than the teal '23 Orbit Grace 174.6g I just got. Whatever Discmania did to make this run so overstable PLEASE KEEP DOING IT FOR FUTURE RUNS!
Yeah, I'm not sure if the DD1's will be more overstable than a Halo Wraith, it's always hard comparing parting lines across different molds because there is so much more that goes into deciding the stability of a disc!
I've liked the new S-line that I've felt but I still have to give the nod to the royal grand plastic. There's just something about the grip I can get on it! Plus they seem to have really thought through the molds well. The grace has taken a place in so many bags, and the new honor is something special for an OS 9-speed.
Maybe throw a big z crank in the mix I only say because I love this slot of disc I have many graces and wraiths and a horizon dd1 the big z crank for me similar flight with just a tiny more glide therefore slightly more distance and gets the bag nod for me.
Grace is 22mm wide, same as a Destroyer, and same as DD1 (and a bunch of other discs). PDGA has all the measurements on their website, although how the disc settles after it's removed from the mold can change it quite drastically as well. It's not internal-medicine grade superplastics after all, or discs would cost 5 of 10 times what they do today.
Yeah the PDGA has the measurements... but they aren't always accurate... and even half a millimeter can make a huge difference in feel and flight. Because I would definitely say the Destroyer has a bigger rim than the Grace, Wraith, and DD1!
was able to throw my horizon dd1 400ft. Mine is definitely more over stable than the one you threw. Mine had an ever so slight turn to the right before fading back. But mine is a black rim with yellow face plate. I cant wait to get my hands on some S-line tho. loved my wraiths, it was my first disc I aced with but throwing a mentor for the flippy version of a wraith so hoping i can beat in a s line to replace it
Yeah I heard the black rimmed Horizon ones were beefy! I am curious how it would compare to the orange DD1. But I haven't thrown any of the black rimmed ones! Only the one I had in this video.
I think I’m suppose to be like “oh wow, new discs! Fun! I should try it!”… but every time you threw that yellow Wraith I said, “Oooo love that flight… glad I bag those.”
Ever since Covid, Innova hasn't taken any new Online Retailers on their wholesale program... they have opened it up to take on new brick and mortar locations, but not new online stores! So I currently can't get Innova until they open it up to take on more online retailers! That or order Custom stuff... But I haven't gotten around to running custom discs yet!
@@JacobPorterLadder Me neither. I recently bought an used TD for 5€ and been lovin it so far. Hopefully they will make a new version of it soon, and youll be able to test it as well
I had a craze and it was my favorite disc but I shanked it into a pond and found out they stopped production on it. Never found a replacement for it but the closest thing is the era from finish line
In the video you never really threw the discs the same way. But it looks as if the orange one is more stable. But does this hold up for every teal and orange one manufactured? If the difference between discs in the same mold is that obvious I think they have a problem. A mold in the same plastic you want to have as little diveristy as possible. The more they differ the more inconsistent they are and you cannot expect two disc to be similar. What I want from a mold that I like is similarity. If I buy a new one I want it to behave like my others. I dont want it to be a different disc. That I will get by throwing my disc as they beats in… I do like your videos. Topics you delivers is relevant for the mass and is not for pros only. Keep it up
Looks really stable tho , i just bought couple S line dd3 one with dome and one without , both feels quite flippy , without wind goes rly straight from hyzer . mby the DD1 can be the good forest distance driver 0.o
For the most part, yes! I didn't check every single one, but most of them were identical to each other. And the Purple's were like the orange ones as well, and the Blues were in between the orange and the teal.
I haven't spent too much time with any Enigma's outside of the stock Neo Enigma. But I would say the Teal is a little more stable and easier to get a consistent result out of for slower arm speeds. I compare the Enigma to the Horizon DD1 in a video here if interested: ua-cam.com/video/KeGRWIHhBAU/v-deo.html
I need something to replace my KRAIT with. I got it new(unthrown) last year and it's been my go-to 4 hand disc. Fits right between my destroyer and shryke. I've bought a lot of molds but can't find one that feels and flys the same.
Ooooo, the Krait was pretty solid! I bet you could find a Wraith that would fly similar to it... But you would have to find the right one... Not sure of another mold like it though!
@@ApolloDiscGolf I went to play it again just to buy a wraith and found the krait so I still haven't bought a wraith yet. Everyone I pick up is too domey and deep. My krait is little gummy and flat. It's a p Mac b 2x. I need a stable trespass. It's only disc that feels just like the KRAIT. Turn was close too. They both had big turns. KRAIT flys straight like that dd1
@@ApolloDiscGolf thinking about getting the new k1 krut. I bought a new k1 grim x last year and lost it on the 3rd throw. I love my glow Reko as my putting putter from c2.
@@AlanS_DGC not sure exactly, but the bursts in most recent S line or supreme/royal etc line indicates they are made on the same machinery. I have not seen much reviews of the supreme orbit vs the supreme, but I assume they are close as far as stability goes. I like the grip of supreme putters and drivers but have held off on purchasing because of price. However, most users seem to like it a lot, and the new S line has been more flippy than their Opto/Lucid ice blend C line drivers which is good to hear. Look for the tri burst on putters and drivers to see if they are made with the newer plastics, their new S line sometimes has a radiation sign -like burst in the core
@@jacobcolon5295 oh wow. Yeah, it’s so much to try to keep up on. Like innova having like 10 different plastic blends. I really liked my strat horizon dd1 but tossed it in the drink and couldn’t get it back. I haven’t been sure if I want to spend the money for the s-line dd1. I hate buying new plastic then not liking the flight from one line to the next.
Not the same exact plastic. Like what Jacob said, it's like comparing Supreme Orbit vs Supreme. Or comparing Halo Plastic to Star. It's technically the same, but making it halo/orbit/horizon makes it a little different blend so they feel a little different and fly a little different. In this case the S-Line has a more glossy and tacky feel to it when the Horizon DD1 has a more matte feel to the plastic.
Nice touch to get the 2 most different AND similar discs out! Those S-lines seems great, a bit to expensive to buy new for fun if your rack already got 5 not all that damaged 11 speeds for the slot...
Yeah... Honestly switching to this or the Grace wouldn't be difficult in terms of fitting it into my game... It's just I already have so many Wraiths to cover every slot 2 or 3 times 😂
Yes, according to the pdga measurements... but if you feel them in the hand, the Grace definitely feels a touch wider! I didn't measure it with a caliper though...
So the PDGA only goes to whole millimeters generally. With good calipers, I measure the grace at 21.60mm and the DD1 (horizon) at 21.35mm. One should definitely expect some variance as some plastic will shrink more or less in the molding process, but the 21.60mm measurement has been consistent with several graces. You might have different results if they made a C-line DD1 though for example. Edit: my DD1 has some variance as you go around the rim, anything from 21.32-21.50mm.
I got a yellow and black Horizon DD1 and it is super beefy. Confuses me when watching reviews because mine for sure does NOT fly like any of my wraiths.
I was reading the white toppped Horizons were the flippiest and everyone who said they got the yellow and black DD1s they were beefy. I got a puple and red white topped DD1s and they both flip pretty easily.
Yeah, I heard that there were some Horizon DD1's that came out really beefy! They might be more comparable to a Halo Wraith? not sure, I haven't thrown any of the beefy Horizon DD1's!
The yellow with black rim horizon DD1’s, “bumblebees” as I call them, are definitely more overstable than the red and teal-rimmed horizon DD1’s I’ve thrown. Same with the cloudbreakers. I threw some max weight DD1’s and cloudbreakers that were way less stable than lighter ones with black rims. They compliment each other very nicely. Couldn’t tell a difference in PLH or rims, but I’d have to check again to be sure.
In my home country (Finland), Discmania discs are the most sold discs at the biggest retailer, so the price doesnt seem to be problem. I myself ordered two of the DD1 earlier this day when they went on sale, I think the price was ok.
@@ErnoAlias I wonder if it’s cheaper in Finland relative to other brands because here in North America it seems like discmania discs are like $5 more than other brands equivalent plastic.
@@WillEnj0y The price of DD1 was about 3-5 euros (about 3.2-5.4 USD) more expensive than discs with similar plastic from other manufacturers. I don't know if it's their normal price level, I rarely buy their discs.
@@WillEnj0yit is most certainly a mark up for import costs. I work in the firearm industry and for example an American made ak47 that's mass produced is probably around 800-1000 bucks. While import ak47s are going to be 1100 to 1500 depending on the manufacturer for a similar product, not including the certain country's like Russia and Chinese ak47s that bring a premium here because the import bans placed on them from both red and blue sides of the isle. That's kinda besides the point but yes importation is expensive af and it's mostlikly politicians fault lol. Don't forget to call them representatives to tell em how ya feel😅
It’s not the same plastic as Gold Ice.
S-line is a unique blend for DM and not used in any Trilogy lines.
Best regards
/Thomas L64°
Thanks for the clarification! Both great feeling plastics!
This is exciting
Heck yeah! Glad to see you clarifying stuff for all of us, Thomas!
I just got a stock run purple S-line DD1 173.3g and an orange/blue '23 GG Halo Wraith 176.7g. I haven't thrown them yet but in the "parting line height" comparison the lower part of the wing's leading edge is higher on the DD1 by almost the same amount that the Wraith is higher than the teal '23 Orbit Grace 174.6g I just got. Whatever Discmania did to make this run so overstable PLEASE KEEP DOING IT FOR FUTURE RUNS!
Yeah, I'm not sure if the DD1's will be more overstable than a Halo Wraith, it's always hard comparing parting lines across different molds because there is so much more that goes into deciding the stability of a disc!
The best part of S-Line being close to Gold Ice is that it is a great dyeing plastic. I didn’t think you were throwing 400ft yet. Awesome.
I am technically not... Those throws were downhill a bit 😂
I've liked the new S-line that I've felt but I still have to give the nod to the royal grand plastic. There's just something about the grip I can get on it! Plus they seem to have really thought through the molds well. The grace has taken a place in so many bags, and the new honor is something special for an OS 9-speed.
I am probably in the minority here... But I actually like the Gold Ice plastic more than the Royal Grand 😬
Love how you searched out the different stabilities in then run, thanks!
Maybe throw a big z crank in the mix I only say because I love this slot of disc I have many graces and wraiths and a horizon dd1 the big z crank for me similar flight with just a tiny more glide therefore slightly more distance and gets the bag nod for me.
Small world, I am from the KC area as well. Played a lovely round at Badrock this morning up in Liberty.
I actually played Bad Rock the other day! The Gold layout there is so fun!
Yoooo the way you review your discs, even checking the wing height and PLH is top notch!!
Your discs reviews and Bodanza’s are my favorites.
Thank you! I appreciate that! 🙌
Grace is 22mm wide, same as a Destroyer, and same as DD1 (and a bunch of other discs). PDGA has all the measurements on their website, although how the disc settles after it's removed from the mold can change it quite drastically as well. It's not internal-medicine grade superplastics after all, or discs would cost 5 of 10 times what they do today.
The Grace is definitely a 12-speed based on its rim width.
Yeah the PDGA has the measurements... but they aren't always accurate... and even half a millimeter can make a huge difference in feel and flight. Because I would definitely say the Destroyer has a bigger rim than the Grace, Wraith, and DD1!
I’m just now learning my horizon dd1. I was throwing way to hard. Thing is great when my tempo is right. Can’t believe I haven’t been throwing it more
was able to throw my horizon dd1 400ft. Mine is definitely more over stable than the one you threw. Mine had an ever so slight turn to the right before fading back. But mine is a black rim with yellow face plate. I cant wait to get my hands on some S-line tho. loved my wraiths, it was my first disc I aced with but throwing a mentor for the flippy version of a wraith so hoping i can beat in a s line to replace it
Yeah I heard the black rimmed Horizon ones were beefy! I am curious how it would compare to the orange DD1. But I haven't thrown any of the black rimmed ones! Only the one I had in this video.
Just love watching this guy throw!
Foot fault
The biggest retailer in my country didn't have the orange DD1 at all, they had only blue, white and teal DD1. I ordered one white and one teal.
They Teal's are super nice! And I didn't get any white ones so I am not sure how those compare!
I think I’m suppose to be like “oh wow, new discs! Fun! I should try it!”… but every time you threw that yellow Wraith I said, “Oooo love that flight… glad I bag those.”
Wraith's do fly nice 😂
My champ wraith is so stable. Maybe I just need a new one with a lower parting line.
Great video I was waiting for these to drop
Thanks for another great review. Question: if you love the Wraith, why do you never carry any on your site?
Ever since Covid, Innova hasn't taken any new Online Retailers on their wholesale program... they have opened it up to take on new brick and mortar locations, but not new online stores! So I currently can't get Innova until they open it up to take on more online retailers! That or order Custom stuff... But I haven't gotten around to running custom discs yet!
I got a pro destroyer that is a great slight stable distance driver for my arm speed(about 375ft)
My Stratosphere is currently sitting in the creek next my house. Waiting on the water level to drop so I can go get it haha
Ooof 😂
Any fellow 10-speed throwers to sign my petition to bring back the TD and CD?
I want a TD badly. But yeah, I don't throw above 11 speed
@@JacobPorterLadder Me neither. I recently bought an used TD for 5€ and been lovin it so far. Hopefully they will make a new version of it soon, and youll be able to test it as well
I hope the td comes back I also don’t throw anything over 11 speed
I had a craze and it was my favorite disc but I shanked it into a pond and found out they stopped production on it. Never found a replacement for it but the closest thing is the era from finish line
Bring the krait back.
Another great video like always.
Keep up the amazing work.
Thank you!
I like the DD1 and the Grace. That said still an Engima guy!
I understand! When you find what you like, it's so hard to change off it!
In the video you never really threw the discs the same way. But it looks as if the orange one is more stable. But does this hold up for every teal and orange one manufactured?
If the difference between discs in the same mold is that obvious I think they have a problem. A mold in the same plastic you want to have as little diveristy as possible. The more they differ the more inconsistent they are and you cannot expect two disc to be similar.
What I want from a mold that I like is similarity. If I buy a new one I want it to behave like my others. I dont want it to be a different disc. That I will get by throwing my disc as they beats in…
I do like your videos. Topics you delivers is relevant for the mass and is not for pros only. Keep it up
Looks really stable tho , i just bought couple S line dd3 one with dome and one without , both feels quite flippy , without wind goes rly straight from hyzer . mby the DD1 can be the good forest distance driver 0.o
Seems like a nice disc 👍 Great video!
Thank you!
Seems like the DD1 would be a good disc for mold minimizing.
For sure
Did you notice all the teals having this parting line as well as the oranges?
For the most part, yes! I didn't check every single one, but most of them were identical to each other. And the Purple's were like the orange ones as well, and the Blues were in between the orange and the teal.
Would you compare them to the paradigm? I feel like you and I have comparable arms.
I have a video comparing the Horizon to the Paradigm here! That is definitely a nice driver! ua-cam.com/video/KeGRWIHhBAU/v-deo.html
How does this compare to the different plastics of an Enigma?
I haven't spent too much time with any Enigma's outside of the stock Neo Enigma. But I would say the Teal is a little more stable and easier to get a consistent result out of for slower arm speeds. I compare the Enigma to the Horizon DD1 in a video here if interested: ua-cam.com/video/KeGRWIHhBAU/v-deo.html
great video
Thank you!
I need something to replace my KRAIT with. I got it new(unthrown) last year and it's been my go-to 4 hand disc. Fits right between my destroyer and shryke. I've bought a lot of molds but can't find one that feels and flys the same.
Ooooo, the Krait was pretty solid! I bet you could find a Wraith that would fly similar to it... But you would have to find the right one... Not sure of another mold like it though!
@@ApolloDiscGolf I went to play it again just to buy a wraith and found the krait so I still haven't bought a wraith yet. Everyone I pick up is too domey and deep. My krait is little gummy and flat. It's a p Mac b 2x. I need a stable trespass. It's only disc that feels just like the KRAIT. Turn was close too. They both had big turns. KRAIT flys straight like that dd1
@@ApolloDiscGolf thinking about getting the new k1 krut. I bought a new k1 grim x last year and lost it on the 3rd throw. I love my glow Reko as my putting putter from c2.
Question, is the s-line dd1 the exact same plastic as the stratosphere horizon dd1?
supreme orbit vs supreme plastic so close but not the same
@@jacobcolon5295 thank you. Couple more questions. S-line is supreme? What is supreme orbit?
@@AlanS_DGC not sure exactly, but the bursts in most recent S line or supreme/royal etc line indicates they are made on the same machinery. I have not seen much reviews of the supreme orbit vs the supreme, but I assume they are close as far as stability goes. I like the grip of supreme putters and drivers but have held off on purchasing because of price. However, most users seem to like it a lot, and the new S line has been more flippy than their Opto/Lucid ice blend C line drivers which is good to hear. Look for the tri burst on putters and drivers to see if they are made with the newer plastics, their new S line sometimes has a radiation sign -like burst in the core
@@jacobcolon5295 oh wow. Yeah, it’s so much to try to keep up on. Like innova having like 10 different plastic blends. I really liked my strat horizon dd1 but tossed it in the drink and couldn’t get it back. I haven’t been sure if I want to spend the money for the s-line dd1. I hate buying new plastic then not liking the flight from one line to the next.
Not the same exact plastic. Like what Jacob said, it's like comparing Supreme Orbit vs Supreme. Or comparing Halo Plastic to Star. It's technically the same, but making it halo/orbit/horizon makes it a little different blend so they feel a little different and fly a little different. In this case the S-Line has a more glossy and tacky feel to it when the Horizon DD1 has a more matte feel to the plastic.
So what’s with Discmania….. they don’t seem to stamp out any driver discs in the 163 to 167 range. That’s what I personally throw best.
Not sure! hopefully they will come out with lighter weights after a while! But yeah, the lightest they had of these were 170g
Nice touch to get the 2 most different AND similar discs out! Those S-lines seems great, a bit to expensive to buy new for fun if your rack already got 5 not all that damaged 11 speeds for the slot...
Yeah... Honestly switching to this or the Grace wouldn't be difficult in terms of fitting it into my game... It's just I already have so many Wraiths to cover every slot 2 or 3 times 😂
Wraith holds the top spot easy. So many plastics and WAY cheaper (Factory seconds and stock runs) than a Grace or DD1.
Yeah, it's hard to argue the Wraith's versatility and availability!
I fucking love the grace
It's a great driver!
You have any DD1 at 167 to 169g? Good Video
I do not... this first run of them only go as low as 170g. They didn't have any below 170g this time around!
@@ApolloDiscGolf thanks for the replay back.
Both DD1 and Grace have the same rim width 2,2 cm.
Yes, according to the pdga measurements... but if you feel them in the hand, the Grace definitely feels a touch wider! I didn't measure it with a caliper though...
So the PDGA only goes to whole millimeters generally. With good calipers, I measure the grace at 21.60mm and the DD1 (horizon) at 21.35mm.
One should definitely expect some variance as some plastic will shrink more or less in the molding process, but the 21.60mm measurement has been consistent with several graces. You might have different results if they made a C-line DD1 though for example.
Edit: my DD1 has some variance as you go around the rim, anything from 21.32-21.50mm.
Dude I went to the site all excited and nothing was there, urgh.... Teal... This is the way!!
Wednesday, Gil, the release is Wednesday! 😂
And I got a good amount of Teal ones! 💪💪
@@ApolloDiscGolf went direct to DM site, next time!!
I love my grace!
The Grace is solid!
I got a yellow and black Horizon DD1 and it is super beefy. Confuses me when watching reviews because mine for sure does NOT fly like any of my wraiths.
I was reading the white toppped Horizons were the flippiest and everyone who said they got the yellow and black DD1s they were beefy. I got a puple and red white topped DD1s and they both flip pretty easily.
Yeah, I heard that there were some Horizon DD1's that came out really beefy! They might be more comparable to a Halo Wraith? not sure, I haven't thrown any of the beefy Horizon DD1's!
The yellow with black rim horizon DD1’s, “bumblebees” as I call them, are definitely more overstable than the red and teal-rimmed horizon DD1’s I’ve thrown. Same with the cloudbreakers. I threw some max weight DD1’s and cloudbreakers that were way less stable than lighter ones with black rims. They compliment each other very nicely. Couldn’t tell a difference in PLH or rims, but I’d have to check again to be sure.
Why have I never heard of a dd2 😅 ?
Dd2 was made by innova (13,5,-2,2)
@@jooa1 I had a blizzard champion dd2, back when i didn't know how to throw at all. I sucked pretty badly and lost it :/
@@visse3615 damn that sucks
@@jooa1 Ehh, looking at it a few years later, i'd say it's okay, the disc was like 140g and rolled on me even back then
@@visse3615 that would be a cool one to own tho ☺️
Overpriced for what it is
Yeah, discmania is pretty lame imo. They have a worse selection than other brands at a higher price.
In my home country (Finland), Discmania discs are the most sold discs at the biggest retailer, so the price doesnt seem to be problem. I myself ordered two of the DD1 earlier this day when they went on sale, I think the price was ok.
@@ErnoAlias I wonder if it’s cheaper in Finland relative to other brands because here in North America it seems like discmania discs are like $5 more than other brands equivalent plastic.
@@WillEnj0y The price of DD1 was about 3-5 euros (about 3.2-5.4 USD) more expensive than discs with similar plastic from other manufacturers. I don't know if it's their normal price level, I rarely buy their discs.
@@WillEnj0yit is most certainly a mark up for import costs.
I work in the firearm industry and for example an American made ak47 that's mass produced is probably around 800-1000 bucks. While import ak47s are going to be 1100 to 1500 depending on the manufacturer for a similar product, not including the certain country's like Russia and Chinese ak47s that bring a premium here because the import bans placed on them from both red and blue sides of the isle.
That's kinda besides the point but yes importation is expensive af and it's mostlikly politicians fault lol. Don't forget to call them representatives to tell em how ya feel😅