The moment you went from the teaching birds to fly to baseball pitching analogy, I immediately got that clip of the bird getting obliterated by a fast ball playing in my head!!
Excellent video : I studied with the great Alan Dawson.. Took six lessons . TraditionL grip.. I could not get out of the driveway with him so to speak because Alan kept his snare drum (practice pad) flat , not tilted so you had to position your left hand )for a righty ) down low . I couldn’t do it being that I always tilted my practice pad at close to a 45 degree angle . Every one of my lessons was him trying to get me to lower my hand and flatten out the pad.. And we stayed stuck in that rut. I was warned of this before my first lesson by a Berklee student who’s now a very famous player and educator who I will not mention here . My experience was exactly what this video warns about .
There is that famous urban myth about Alan, that he would drop students if they could not master the first 3 ruff rudiments (the ones now in the book by John Ramsey). I often tell my students about that in the vain hope some of them will actually practice the rudiments. It rarely works ha ha
Why do I faithfully watch your videos? I’m asking b/c I’m a jazz guitarist. I think it’s because I have learned more about how to approach guitar practice & playing from you, than pretty much anyone purporting to teach me guitar. Kudos.
I'm a bass player who doesn't even play jazz. I find it useful to learn about other instruments and how those who play them approach the instrument. Plus Nate is fun ;-)
I’m not even a musician and I find the insights into teaching and learning fascinating. Over generalizations are one of the easiest traps to fall into. Also kudos for including Feynman who is one of my heroes.
If I look at vinnie first thing I see is that his sticks are both extremely loose and sticking at his hands like they're glued on at the same time. Perfect control.
Yea I feel like that's a synergy thing with his muscle memory picking up the natural motion of the stick. He's so well attuned he doesn't have to fight it.
I spent some time as a driving instructor. For a while, I tied my in knots trying to teach novice drivers how to reverse around a corner (they had to do it in the test). A more experienced instructor suggested, "Have you ever just asked them to reverse around the corner?" And actually, it was surprising how many did it, with no instruction. I had been, as you said, teaching birds to fly.
Great video. Similar in a sport like golf where you have the textbook swings (Adam Scott) and the unorthodox swings (Jim Furyk). The shared skills among pros are not necessarily techniques but the abilities to adjust to situations, play under pressure, read a green etc. I love interdisciplinary studies like this. Thanks for putting it together
I learned this the hard way when I watched Thomas Lang playing beautiful and fast single strokes all coming from the wrist, and spent time copying what I believed to be his technique. I now have RSIs on both wrists and am seeking OT
Well, I'm sorry but my limited experience totally agrees with you. I love Copeland, so when I started playing I tried really hard to play trad grip. But I grew up playing piano, so playing with my palms down felt so much better that I gave up on trad and was happier for it. But standard sticking with RH on the hi-hat always made me feel like I was in my own way and I felt like I wasn't getting better. Then I heard that open-handed is a thing and I swapped the location of the crash and ride and play LH hi-hat, RH crash, ride and snare in the middle can be either hand. At first it exposed how weak my LH was tapping out all those hi-hat 8ths, but it just felt so much more natural. Playing in a way that feels right made everything more relaxed and enjoyable because I felt like I had stopped fighting with myself. I may be a newb, but I think that if I never get good, it won't be because of those choices.
People see the spectacle in VC’s (and others) playing and immediately want that...they miss out on the journey he took to get himself there. The only way to sound like him is to listen to what he was listening to and see if you are naturally inclined to take it to that level and direction. Likely if you try this, you will end up a cut rate version of him; it’s better to go on your own journey. Great video
Nate, props on a thoughtful vid w a circumspect and philosophical approach. Btw, I was truly surprised you kept saying "teach birds to fly," followed by the Big Unit, yet avoided showing his most infamous video bringing those two together in synchronicity ⚾ 🐦
another gem of a vid nate, i definitely do miss studying with a teacher, hope in a few years i can make room on my timetable for some drum lessons again, right now i'm way too caught up between IT school, work and producing artists. btw not sure if i commented on it already, but i don't know anybody that plays like you do. i'm an outsider regarding jazz, and while i see what the greats are doing they just kinda sound like "jazz", while you're totally on a style of your own, i can never predict what note you are going to play when freestyling and i love that
Great lesson from the 80/20 University. It does feel a bit like that. You are like a professor and really are digging into the world of drumming and exploring it and thankfully sharing it with us. Thank Nate, the 10/10 drummer.
Some very good points made here! I've had experience with some teachers who were pretty dogmatic about technique and I honestly think it caused my playing to go backwards for a while. Now when I learn something new in the technique area, I analyse it and I choose for myself whether to keep it or discard it. Looking back when I was at music college, I was very much of the mentality of "my teachers obviously know best, so if I do what they say, I'll do best". That sentiment might have been well intended but it ultimately didn't work out that well, as sometimes I would trust teachers' advice over my own ears. This is a great example of what you were talking about when you said about getting "blinded" by knowledge - I guess "deafened" is maybe the appropriate word here. I think when it comes to technique there is only one thing teachers should be dogmatic about which wasn't mentioned in this video - preventing injury. Imo the most important aspect of technique is that you're not doing anything behind the drums that might cause injury further down the line and I don't think enough teachers think in those terms. Beyond that, I think people should just use whatever technique is best for getting the sounds they want to hear and it's the teacher's job to instruct people on how to do that. It's a bouquet of choices, not a one-size-fits-all prescription. My hand technique literally morphs all the time when I'm playing drum kit, depending on what I'm playing and where I'm playing on the kit. But if teachers can educate students on all the non-injuring options out there, they can ultimately make up their own minds on what techniques they want to use.
Free throws in basketball would be another interesting analogy because every player on a team works on the skill and you don’t have a human component involved in the target. Basically a similar scenario where the controls you use to analyze it are shifted. I think it’s important to consider that technique for things like drumming and pitching can have an ergonomic impact or be influenced by a person’s physiology. So adjusting technique can improve longevity even if it doesn’t necessarily impact sound. Or forcing a person to use a particular technique could have a negative ergonomic impact as well.
I appreciate analogies and parables. They’re infinitely more useful because they carry with them, when properly conveyed, far more true information than a person could unload in the time it’d take to shingle a roof. Good job. Good video. You’re a smart person. A bit like me. And you’re good at stuff. A bit like me, too.
Yeah man👍🏼. I was in a college course yesterday where Steve Reich was heralded by the prof as a social activist with some amazing skill to find some sounds that worked to fill his need to express his outrage. I said, “No. He was a drummer 1st and artist 2nd. At the same time he was a relatively socially aware human who believed in equal rights.” Teachers must be aware of what they’re teaching. We can all keep each other in check. Good episode👍🏼👏🏼
I wonder what all of the "My way or the highway technique" "teachers" do when they encounter a student who has a thumb, 2 fused fingers and a kinda pinky thing for a right hand. Well, my traditional grip play'n ass learned some left hand lead French grip grooves and taught them to Eddie next week. That kid sounded great! I further instructed him that the next time he runs into a drum "teacher" that tried to turn him into something he's not that he was to take the fused middle finger portion of his hand situation and elegantly hold it high in the air and directed to the countenance of said instructor and utter the phrase...
I'm a guitarist who enjoys your channel and find this analogy also works perfectly for people who think certain equipment used by their heroes will make them better or allow them to play certain things better.
As a guy who’s in the last stage of your coaching course and often thinking what, out of all the stuff in there I should focus on, I just got my answer here. The stuff that sings to me that falls easily into my fingers. I’ll master everything also though and get my money’s worth though as I’m from Yorkshire.
I have heard that in New Orleans they have harmonica sparring, where a new comer will come into a club and make a throat slashing motion at the harmonica player who is currently playing to challenge them.
Traditional grip in drumming is like the one-handed backhand in tennis... Really enjoyed the video. In general, I think a technique or a form becomes accepted as something worth emulating when it seems to clearly increase people's chances of getting a desired outcome. After generations of attempts we start to see the result of this evolutionary process in Steph Curry's jumpshot, the shape of a boeing jet or basically everything in Jojo Mayer's Secret Weapons for the modern drummer dvd. There will always be people who diverge and still get results, making their technique all the more fascinating
Great video. Including marching and percussion ensembles, I’ve probably had 400 drum students. My favorite phrase is “10 years from now, if you sound like me, I’ve failed as a teacher. This is your journey.” I hate when teachers of anything say “this is how I do it.” Like they’re the best and you need to follow everything. Teach match grip. Teach trad. Don’t force a metal fan to start playing swing. They’ll quit. Nobody wins. The MMA analogy is great. I’ve thought that for a while. The proof is in the pudding.
Very cool video! Feels very much like a part 1 of 2 though. Would love to hear a part 2 where you break down WHY drummers with heavy gigging experience are the only ones who can explain what you should take from Vinnie :)
That snare is a brand new snare with a brand new head, from Angel drums. (Which only goes to the point that the instrument makes it easy to make it sound good 😜)
one factor I think that also needs attention when figuring out what to take and what to leave from the greats with proven results is 'technique' that allows for longevity / sustainability. This gets a little into the area of "PT" but it goes for any vocation with physically demanding efforts that do not necessarily respect normal biomechanics. What is the shelf life of a high performance pro baseball pitcher, and how many surgeries are they going to face in their career? How can the shelf life be increased and injury rate be decreased? Those are the kinds of quetions that should be asked right alongside measurable results in the sport. As an example of what can be done, the great Czech hockey player Jaromir Jagr has had an unusually long professional career and an unusually low amount of significant injuries. Hockey is a physically demanding sport with certain unnatural demands on the body (like most sports). The thing is Jagr has trained not just in 'hockey' techniques but applied the principles of functional biomechanical rehab training, in his case "Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization" to the sport of hockey performance, and the long term results speak for themselves. I think more drummers, pitchers, MMA fighters and other athletes ought to do something likewise if longevity as well as performance efficiency are worthy goals. The main idea is that repetitve limb movements without fundamental joint centrations, nor deep spinal stabilization technique, will inefficiently shift energetic efforts to the more superficial and distal parts of the body to execute a specific movement pattern. Whereas training to centrate joint movements with recriprocal movement elsewhere in the body that respecting the appropriate fascial connections along the whole body, will more efficient transfer power as well as prevent those common overuse joint injuries like shoulder and hip. Observe a baby in normal developmental movements, going from supine stability to rolling variations, to crawling, to uprighting strategies, and note how their outer layer of muscle tissue appears soft and pliable. Like it takes them no effort. Because all the effort is in deep spinal stabilization via diaphragm-expanding pressurizing of the innermost chamber. Likewise watch an MMA fighter like Fedor Emelianenko who, when he is going with maximum power output, has no visible muscle contractions, or those deeply grooved superficial muscle groups straining... its not just because of excess body fat but because he always naturally stabilizes his deeper, true core like a high pressure chamber to transfer power from lower to upper body and vice versa. Anyway, all that to say efficient biomechanics is not a matter of style but respecting what load our tissues can actually handle under normal and extreme demands, and training accordingly if we want to live a normal physical life instead of suffering from techniques that give good performance results but poor biomechanical habits that will come back and claim their debts at some point. With drummers complaints often deal with a lot of the joints including spinal segments of the lower back, so every joint should be protected and drummers should especially be aware that drumming disassociates the upper and lower body in ways that will compromise their overall biomechanical longevity. I don't know all the answers but I suspect that focusing on the major levers instead of the microjoints for power output will eliminate those awful injuries and degradations down the road. Taking cues from MMA and other athletes who know how to transfer power efficiently (across the kinetic chain, like how a punch starts in the hips) would probably also be a lot more useful. Postural stability and minimizing excessive flailing and weight shifting ... all kinds of tweaks that has high cash value on the technique and longevity fronts.
I’ve known people who can’t play without music. They’re trained but have no heart . We can pickup tips from our heroes whoever that might be. But we must put them too use in our own way or techniques that work for us.
Good points. Musicianship is more than chops, or technique. Music is all about the interaction between players on stage. Being able to respond. The question is how do we teach all this at the same time. How do you teach a 4 year old some musicianship? Classical approach has always been the focus on technique first. This might suck some life out of the journey. Balance is the key, I guess, as in everything.
I am from Montreal , You know , Les Expos ? This is the team who gave the first chance to Randy the big unit Johnson and as you said , who the heck could have imagine that this guy with this style was going to evolved into what he became? Not the managers in Montreal at the time that's for sure.
The best technique is that which works for the technician. So long as it's not detrimental to our physical health. What are your thoughts on doing a lesson that illustrates the necessity of individuality without being detrimental to our health. Take Phil Collins for example...
This is an excellent explanation of things that might bounce around in your head but are hard to explain. Like, why is so much "great drumming" on drum videos etc., so boring? Because there are so many things that go into making something great. Comparison to some perfect, "educated" ideal is not one of them, for the most part. That's why drumming is so challenging.
All right, so I’m a cargo pilot, which made this particular video just a little more awesome. LOL. That said, I think what you’re saying has complete validity, but perhaps omits the idea that the average teacher teaches for the average student. And the law of averages is likely going to show that if you teach the average Joe’s of the world, the same way you would approach Randy Johnson, then the vast majority of students (the average Joe’s), are gonna lose out on a lot of fundamentals. You have to be able to recognize the big unit when he’s in the room, but you have to know that you’re only gonna run into him two or three times in your lifetime. Sidenote, I’ve also spent 20 years teaching people how to fly, which makes the teaching aspect of what you’re talking about so fascinating. I enjoyed this one particularly, thanks
I have believed for some time that a person's values and priorities are reflected in their playing. Studying the drums has caused me to be introspective regarding this. A bird taking flight is natural, I can only hope that my playing will be considered natural and reflect the things I value most in making music for others. Another thought I have about learning to fly is, being pushed from the nest. It has taken me much longer to develop skills than those musicians that have had the opportunity to work six nights a week.
Missing from the discussion- student input. Using MMA as a standard for judging when someone is taking Kendo to learn how to be more graceful is more akin to teaching a bird to fly like a carrier jet. The particulars of how to drum professionally are a bit different than someone who wants to play better with their friends. I can't even begin with how many instructors that have sucked the joy out of a subject by setting the goal for the instruction far in advance. And the Kendo guy is real. All he wanted was how to perform men with fluid grace. Everything else was extraneous (for the most part). When I use to have the good fortune of being able to attend several drum clinics, beyond the hero worship, was seeing how different drummers approached their craft. A then unknown to me Gregg Bissonette pulled everything he could from his personal experience to advance the possibilities for drummers in any skillset. Another, more publicly revered drummer spent the time with fairly standard tropes and backhanding "lessor" drummers (including some I like). One of these is the drummer for Spinal Tap. The other is not. Enough said,.
Absolutely on point and good philosophy. I believe we learn the most from are the ones out there doing it and very active, which aren't always the most technically skilled. EVH is a great example. He's not a virtuoso honestly and his techniques alone dont make him good. It is how he used his techniques, his refinement of them and his tone, and consistency in what he wanted to do. And look how many people he inspired on guitar.
I'm a self taught musician and a band leader. And when I hook up with my drummer I don't teach any type of technique, but I dictate exactly what I want him to do. For instance, we play some Clyde Stubblefield beats and I never talk about how he should hold the sticks but I talk about how hard the accents should be compared to the ghost-notes. I find that people play the funky drummer wrong. There's not much difference in how hard they play the accents compared to the ghost-notes. The accents need to be very hard and the ghost-notes need to be like your barely touching the drum. It is very hard to do and I haven't heard a drummer (apart from the original), do it right yet. I'm able to do it but I can't keep it going for long because I'm a guitarist. Many drummers play funk but can't play it funky in my opinion.
I had a few run-ins with "educated" drummers who taught, but never played in contemporary musical situations. It was interesting. Two of my cousins were similar, one clarinet, and one sax. One became a teacher at a school in China, and the other in Korea. Great for their environment, but they couldn't improvise them selves out of a paper bag.
One place you definitely shouldn't copy your idol drummer or anyone else for that matter is how they set up their kit. There are many people out there that position their stuff in the most unergonomic way possible. This is especially true with some of the people that set their bass drums facing forward whilst hitting the pedal at an angle. That makes your foot bend at angle it doesn't go naturally, on top of diminishing your performance. Just look at Phil Collins. Years of bad posture caused him to damage a nerve in his spine and that has compromised his right hand grip to the point he can't even hold a stick with that hand anymore. After many years of setting toms right behind his back, Dave Weckl developed back problems and he can't twist his spine to the right towards his back. The late Neil Peart developed tendonitis and had to re-learn how to play. And so on. Ryan Alexander Bloom has a series of videos on drumset ergonomics that will help drum for longer.
Hey man, I totally agree with letting people play with a technique that works for them... however.... What about RSI? In my opinion technique isn’t just a tool for your sound but one for your body. It’s the role of technique to also prevent unnecessary damage to oneself - and an “unusual” technique has the potential to cause such damage. Would love to hear some thoughts on this.
This is a good point, and something I think can only be solved by the individual player. Max Weinberg was amazed when he saw Travis Barker perform live on Conan when Travis first joined the band, but jokingly warned him he couldn't keep that technique up. And I think Travis' response was something like, yeah it's okay because I take an ice bath after every show haha
hello there, thank you for your videos, this is just to let you know that the Hook it up purple button doesn't work...I've tried twice and not received any response. :-)
Yes, but it seems like the most gains are made taking lessons from drummers who have a different style. Even drastically different. I'm thinking of all those rock drummers who studied with Freddie Gruber, or Jean Paul Gaster (metal-rock drummer) studying with Johnny Vidacovich.
So the mullet I’ve been growing for years WON’T make me sound like Vinnie?!
Thats still TBD, so it may do just that. Report back to us in a year or two
That doesn't make it less awesome
It's Ok man, I wore a Bolo hat for years, lol
The mullet's going to be seriously annoyed when it finds out.
The moment you went from the teaching birds to fly to baseball pitching analogy, I immediately got that clip of the bird getting obliterated by a fast ball playing in my head!!
Excellent video : I studied with the great Alan Dawson.. Took six lessons . TraditionL grip.. I could not get out of the driveway with him so to
speak because Alan kept his snare drum (practice pad) flat , not tilted so you had to position your left hand )for a righty ) down low . I couldn’t do it being that I always tilted my practice pad at close to a 45 degree angle . Every one of my lessons was him trying to get me to lower my hand and flatten out the pad.. And we stayed stuck in that rut. I was warned of this before my first lesson by a Berklee student who’s now a very famous player and educator who I will not mention here . My experience was exactly what this video warns about .
Fellow former student of Alan's here, similar experience.
There is that famous urban myth about Alan, that he would drop students if they could not master the first 3 ruff rudiments (the ones now in the book by John Ramsey). I often tell my students about that in the vain hope some of them will actually practice the rudiments. It rarely works ha ha
Why do I faithfully watch your videos? I’m asking b/c I’m a jazz guitarist. I think it’s because I have learned more about how to approach guitar practice & playing from you, than pretty much anyone purporting to teach me guitar. Kudos.
I'm a bass player who doesn't even play jazz. I find it useful to learn about other instruments and how those who play them approach the instrument. Plus Nate is fun ;-)
I’m not even a musician and I find the insights into teaching and learning fascinating. Over generalizations are one of the easiest traps to fall into. Also kudos for including Feynman who is one of my heroes.
If I look at vinnie first thing I see is that his sticks are both extremely loose and sticking at his hands like they're glued on at the same time. Perfect control.
Yea I feel like that's a synergy thing with his muscle memory picking up the natural motion of the stick. He's so well attuned he doesn't have to fight it.
I spent some time as a driving instructor. For a while, I tied my in knots trying to teach novice drivers how to reverse around a corner (they had to do it in the test). A more experienced instructor suggested, "Have you ever just asked them to reverse around the corner?" And actually, it was surprising how many did it, with no instruction. I had been, as you said, teaching birds to fly.
You have the Black Swan of drum channels.
getting a little carried away with metaphors are we?
@@jktunney Wouldn’t be the first time.
@@tommyron lol, gotta take some gambles here and there
This is the first time a drumming video gave me a violence advisory warning! 😂.
my two favorite things, drums and mma!
You have a lot of sage wisdom! Appreciate your channel very much! Happy drumming, everyone!
I usually gravitate towards drumming videos as teaching aids when I teach my (English) class. This is another keeper. Thanks, 80/20!
A video that combines analytical musings about drumming, Braves baseball history, world war 2... this should be a whole genre.
Thank you for existing.
Great video. Similar in a sport like golf where you have the textbook swings (Adam Scott) and the unorthodox swings (Jim Furyk). The shared skills among pros are not necessarily techniques but the abilities to adjust to situations, play under pressure, read a green etc. I love interdisciplinary studies like this. Thanks for putting it together
I learned this the hard way when I watched Thomas Lang playing beautiful and fast single strokes all coming from the wrist, and spent time copying what I believed to be his technique. I now have RSIs on both wrists and am seeking OT
Well, I'm sorry but my limited experience totally agrees with you. I love Copeland, so when I started playing I tried really hard to play trad grip. But I grew up playing piano, so playing with my palms down felt so much better that I gave up on trad and was happier for it. But standard sticking with RH on the hi-hat always made me feel like I was in my own way and I felt like I wasn't getting better. Then I heard that open-handed is a thing and I swapped the location of the crash and ride and play LH hi-hat, RH crash, ride and snare in the middle can be either hand. At first it exposed how weak my LH was tapping out all those hi-hat 8ths, but it just felt so much more natural. Playing in a way that feels right made everything more relaxed and enjoyable because I felt like I had stopped fighting with myself. I may be a newb, but I think that if I never get good, it won't be because of those choices.
People see the spectacle in VC’s (and others) playing and immediately want that...they miss out on the journey he took to get himself there.
The only way to sound like him is to listen to what he was listening to and see if you are naturally inclined to take it to that level and direction. Likely if you try this, you will end up a cut rate version of him; it’s better to go on your own journey.
Great video
Great, great video!
Love the approach, more of this please :)
Appreciate your efforts to have put your lessons through such illustrations ... I like it.
Nate, props on a thoughtful vid w a circumspect and philosophical approach. Btw, I was truly surprised you kept saying "teach birds to fly," followed by the Big Unit, yet avoided showing his most infamous video bringing those two together in synchronicity ⚾ 🐦
Great content! Greetings from Hungary! 🙏🔥
Great video! Feel like the stage/studio is our octagon, feedback from handclaps and playback
‘Teaching Birds to Fly’; I’m having that
another gem of a vid nate, i definitely do miss studying with a teacher, hope in a few years i can make room on my timetable for some drum lessons again, right now i'm way too caught up between IT school, work and producing artists. btw not sure if i commented on it already, but i don't know anybody that plays like you do. i'm an outsider regarding jazz, and while i see what the greats are doing they just kinda sound like "jazz", while you're totally on a style of your own, i can never predict what note you are going to play when freestyling and i love that
Some very interesting observations! Loved the ‘Cargo cult’ analogy.
Great lesson from the 80/20 University. It does feel a bit like that. You are like a professor and really are digging into the world of drumming and exploring it and thankfully sharing it with us. Thank Nate, the 10/10 drummer.
When you define something for yourself... you set your criteria for greatness.
Some very good points made here! I've had experience with some teachers who were pretty dogmatic about technique and I honestly think it caused my playing to go backwards for a while. Now when I learn something new in the technique area, I analyse it and I choose for myself whether to keep it or discard it. Looking back when I was at music college, I was very much of the mentality of "my teachers obviously know best, so if I do what they say, I'll do best". That sentiment might have been well intended but it ultimately didn't work out that well, as sometimes I would trust teachers' advice over my own ears. This is a great example of what you were talking about when you said about getting "blinded" by knowledge - I guess "deafened" is maybe the appropriate word here.
I think when it comes to technique there is only one thing teachers should be dogmatic about which wasn't mentioned in this video - preventing injury. Imo the most important aspect of technique is that you're not doing anything behind the drums that might cause injury further down the line and I don't think enough teachers think in those terms. Beyond that, I think people should just use whatever technique is best for getting the sounds they want to hear and it's the teacher's job to instruct people on how to do that. It's a bouquet of choices, not a one-size-fits-all prescription. My hand technique literally morphs all the time when I'm playing drum kit, depending on what I'm playing and where I'm playing on the kit. But if teachers can educate students on all the non-injuring options out there, they can ultimately make up their own minds on what techniques they want to use.
This is a great way to think about getting better at anything
Free throws in basketball would be another interesting analogy because every player on a team works on the skill and you don’t have a human component involved in the target. Basically a similar scenario where the controls you use to analyze it are shifted.
I think it’s important to consider that technique for things like drumming and pitching can have an ergonomic impact or be influenced by a person’s physiology. So adjusting technique can improve longevity even if it doesn’t necessarily impact sound. Or forcing a person to use a particular technique could have a negative ergonomic impact as well.
I appreciate analogies and parables. They’re infinitely more useful because they carry with them, when properly conveyed, far more true information than a person could unload in the time it’d take to shingle a roof.
Good job. Good video.
You’re a smart person. A bit like me. And you’re good at stuff. A bit like me, too.
Yeah man👍🏼.
I was in a college course yesterday where Steve Reich was heralded by the prof as a social activist with some amazing skill to find some sounds that worked to fill his need to express his outrage.
I said, “No. He was a drummer 1st and artist 2nd. At the same time he was a relatively socially aware human who believed in equal rights.”
Teachers must be aware of what they’re teaching. We can all keep each other in check. Good episode👍🏼👏🏼
I wonder what all of the "My way or the highway technique" "teachers" do when they encounter a student who has a thumb, 2 fused fingers and a kinda pinky thing for a right hand. Well, my traditional grip play'n ass learned some left hand lead French grip grooves and taught them to Eddie next week. That kid sounded great! I further instructed him that the next time he runs into a drum "teacher" that tried to turn him into something he's not that he was to take the fused middle finger portion of his hand situation and elegantly hold it high in the air and directed to the countenance of said instructor and utter the phrase...
This Gold!!! Thanks for making this one.
Best TedTalk ever.
Seriously, thanks for the cargo 👍🏻
I'm a guitarist who enjoys your channel and find this analogy also works perfectly for people who think certain equipment used by their heroes will make them better or allow them to play certain things better.
As a guy who’s in the last stage of your coaching course and often thinking what, out of all the stuff in there I should focus on, I just got my answer here. The stuff that sings to me that falls easily into my fingers. I’ll master everything also though and get my money’s worth though as I’m from Yorkshire.
Technique < feel. Just knowing how to play nested tuplets is not the same thing as knowing where to play nested tuplets.
I have heard that in New Orleans they have harmonica sparring, where a new comer will come into a club and make a throat slashing motion at the harmonica player who is currently playing to challenge them.
Traditional grip in drumming is like the one-handed backhand in tennis...
Really enjoyed the video. In general, I think a technique or a form becomes accepted as something worth emulating when it seems to clearly increase people's chances of getting a desired outcome. After generations of attempts we start to see the result of this evolutionary process in Steph Curry's jumpshot, the shape of a boeing jet or basically everything in Jojo Mayer's Secret Weapons for the modern drummer dvd. There will always be people who diverge and still get results, making their technique all the more fascinating
Read, or listen to, the lecture "Cargo Cult Science" by Feynman.
Great video. Including marching and percussion ensembles, I’ve probably had 400 drum students. My favorite phrase is “10 years from now, if you sound like me, I’ve failed as a teacher. This is your journey.” I hate when teachers of anything say “this is how I do it.” Like they’re the best and you need to follow everything. Teach match grip. Teach trad. Don’t force a metal fan to start playing swing. They’ll quit. Nobody wins. The MMA analogy is great. I’ve thought that for a while. The proof is in the pudding.
You have some great ideas and way of teaching them and applying them to drums. Such an important spin for people learning drums. Thanks!
This is a really high quality video man 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Love this topic soo much!
When your skills,chops, technique are developed you are down to playing your personality. What is your personality & would I want to hear it?
You're my hero 80/20
....Nate, you outdo yourself every time. Keep up the great work ~
Very cool video! Feels very much like a part 1 of 2 though. Would love to hear a part 2 where you break down WHY drummers with heavy gigging experience are the only ones who can explain what you should take from Vinnie :)
Really enjoyed this video!
I like your drumming style. You look stiff, but play fluidly. You always make a beat to shit snare, sound beautiful and articulate.
That snare is a brand new snare with a brand new head, from Angel drums. (Which only goes to the point that the instrument makes it easy to make it sound good 😜)
one factor I think that also needs attention when figuring out what to take and what to leave from the greats with proven results is 'technique' that allows for longevity / sustainability. This gets a little into the area of "PT" but it goes for any vocation with physically demanding efforts that do not necessarily respect normal biomechanics.
What is the shelf life of a high performance pro baseball pitcher, and how many surgeries are they going to face in their career? How can the shelf life be increased and injury rate be decreased? Those are the kinds of quetions that should be asked right alongside measurable results in the sport.
As an example of what can be done, the great Czech hockey player Jaromir Jagr has had an unusually long professional career and an unusually low amount of significant injuries. Hockey is a physically demanding sport with certain unnatural demands on the body (like most sports). The thing is Jagr has trained not just in 'hockey' techniques but applied the principles of functional biomechanical rehab training, in his case "Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization" to the sport of hockey performance, and the long term results speak for themselves. I think more drummers, pitchers, MMA fighters and other athletes ought to do something likewise if longevity as well as performance efficiency are worthy goals.
The main idea is that repetitve limb movements without fundamental joint centrations, nor deep spinal stabilization technique, will inefficiently shift energetic efforts to the more superficial and distal parts of the body to execute a specific movement pattern. Whereas training to centrate joint movements with recriprocal movement elsewhere in the body that respecting the appropriate fascial connections along the whole body, will more efficient transfer power as well as prevent those common overuse joint injuries like shoulder and hip.
Observe a baby in normal developmental movements, going from supine stability to rolling variations, to crawling, to uprighting strategies, and note how their outer layer of muscle tissue appears soft and pliable. Like it takes them no effort. Because all the effort is in deep spinal stabilization via diaphragm-expanding pressurizing of the innermost chamber.
Likewise watch an MMA fighter like Fedor Emelianenko who, when he is going with maximum power output, has no visible muscle contractions, or those deeply grooved superficial muscle groups straining... its not just because of excess body fat but because he always naturally stabilizes his deeper, true core like a high pressure chamber to transfer power from lower to upper body and vice versa.
Anyway, all that to say efficient biomechanics is not a matter of style but respecting what load our tissues can actually handle under normal and extreme demands, and training accordingly if we want to live a normal physical life instead of suffering from techniques that give good performance results but poor biomechanical habits that will come back and claim their debts at some point. With drummers complaints often deal with a lot of the joints including spinal segments of the lower back, so every joint should be protected and drummers should especially be aware that drumming disassociates the upper and lower body in ways that will compromise their overall biomechanical longevity. I don't know all the answers but I suspect that focusing on the major levers instead of the microjoints for power output will eliminate those awful injuries and degradations down the road. Taking cues from MMA and other athletes who know how to transfer power efficiently (across the kinetic chain, like how a punch starts in the hips) would probably also be a lot more useful. Postural stability and minimizing excessive flailing and weight shifting ... all kinds of tweaks that has high cash value on the technique and longevity fronts.
I dont really play drums, i play guitar. But this video helped me greatly and I throughly enjoyed watching it. Thanks man.
What I learned from this video: My crazy sick wind-up WAS good enough for MLB but instead I wasted my life writing software.
Thanks for giving my Atlanta Braves a shoutout!!👍🏿😎⚾️
Love the mma analogies. Keep up good work, bless
I’ve known people who can’t play without music. They’re trained but have no heart . We can pickup tips from our heroes whoever that might be. But we must put them too use in our own way or techniques that work for us.
Good points. Musicianship is more than chops, or technique. Music is all about the interaction between players on stage. Being able to respond. The question is how do we teach all this at the same time. How do you teach a 4 year old some musicianship? Classical approach has always been the focus on technique first. This might suck some life out of the journey. Balance is the key, I guess, as in everything.
Good material well presented. Thank You🙏🏻
This is brilliant my dude.
Great video as always, dude. Cheers from Brasil!!!
I am from Montreal , You know , Les Expos ? This is the team who gave the first chance to Randy the big unit Johnson and as you said , who the heck could have imagine that this guy with this style was going to evolved into what he became? Not the managers in Montreal at the time that's for sure.
Your foam pieces have a space between some of them and it drove me crazy 😜 I agree with you on this though. Good topic dude
The best technique is that which works for the technician. So long as it's not detrimental to our physical health.
What are your thoughts on doing a lesson that illustrates the necessity of individuality without being detrimental to our health.
Take Phil Collins for example...
This is an excellent explanation of things that might bounce around in your head but are hard to explain. Like, why is so much "great drumming" on drum videos etc., so boring? Because there are so many things that go into making something great. Comparison to some perfect, "educated" ideal is not one of them, for the most part. That's why drumming is so challenging.
Nate, your are channeling your inner Dave King!
Great video - thought provoking and motivating. Thanks!
All right, so I’m a cargo pilot, which made this particular video just a little more awesome. LOL. That said, I think what you’re saying has complete validity, but perhaps omits the idea that the average teacher teaches for the average student. And the law of averages is likely going to show that if you teach the average Joe’s of the world, the same way you would approach Randy Johnson, then the vast majority of students (the average Joe’s), are gonna lose out on a lot of fundamentals. You have to be able to recognize the big unit when he’s in the room, but you have to know that you’re only gonna run into him two or three times in your lifetime. Sidenote, I’ve also spent 20 years teaching people how to fly, which makes the teaching aspect of what you’re talking about so fascinating. I enjoyed this one particularly, thanks
Haha, good stuff Nate. And also, sounds familiar..... :-)
Quality lesson video - thank you!
wise words...
Knew you were a Taleb fan since you started talking about skin in the game, such a giant.
Great video. I'm Always looking for ways to be a better teacher.
Great stuff...love the cross referencing, examples, and 'scientificity'!!?
I have believed for some time that a person's values and priorities are reflected in their playing. Studying the drums has caused me to be introspective regarding this. A bird taking flight is natural, I can only hope that my playing will be considered natural and reflect the things I value most in making music for others.
Another thought I have about learning to fly is, being pushed from the nest. It has taken me much longer to develop skills than those musicians that have had the opportunity to work six nights a week.
You got it right. It's the hair.
Fuck! Thanks for the loud beep before the video starts
Missing from the discussion- student input.
Using MMA as a standard for judging when someone is taking Kendo to learn how to be more graceful is more akin to teaching a bird to fly like a carrier jet. The particulars of how to drum professionally are a bit different than someone who wants to play better with their friends. I can't even begin with how many instructors that have sucked the joy out of a subject by setting the goal for the instruction far in advance. And the Kendo guy is real. All he wanted was how to perform men with fluid grace. Everything else was extraneous (for the most part).
When I use to have the good fortune of being able to attend several drum clinics, beyond the hero worship, was seeing how different drummers approached their craft. A then unknown to me Gregg Bissonette pulled everything he could from his personal experience to advance the possibilities for drummers in any skillset.
Another, more publicly revered drummer spent the time with fairly standard tropes and backhanding "lessor" drummers (including some I like).
One of these is the drummer for Spinal Tap. The other is not. Enough said,.
In other words: you do you, boo. You do you. (but don't learn any really bad habits that will physically hurt you or make your playing suffer :) )
Absolutely on point and good philosophy. I believe we learn the most from are the ones out there doing it and very active, which aren't always the most technically skilled. EVH is a great example. He's not a virtuoso honestly and his techniques alone dont make him good. It is how he used his techniques, his refinement of them and his tone, and consistency in what he wanted to do. And look how many people he inspired on guitar.
I'm a self taught musician and a band leader. And when I hook up with my drummer I don't teach any type of technique, but I dictate exactly what I want him to do. For instance, we play some Clyde Stubblefield beats and I never talk about how he should hold the sticks but I talk about how hard the accents should be compared to the ghost-notes. I find that people play the funky drummer wrong. There's not much difference in how hard they play the accents compared to the ghost-notes. The accents need to be very hard and the ghost-notes need to be like your barely touching the drum. It is very hard to do and I haven't heard a drummer (apart from the original), do it right yet. I'm able to do it but I can't keep it going for long because I'm a guitarist. Many drummers play funk but can't play it funky in my opinion.
Excellent video,as always.
I had a few run-ins with "educated" drummers who taught, but never played in contemporary musical situations.
It was interesting.
Two of my cousins were similar, one clarinet, and one sax. One became a teacher at a school in China, and the other in Korea. Great for their environment, but they couldn't improvise them selves out of a paper bag.
Best drummers ever? Easy: Ringo Starr and Charlie Watts. No one ever taught those birds how to fly.
Thank you kind sir!
That was too deep and confusing Mr. Freud.
This guy is the king !
One place you definitely shouldn't copy your idol drummer or anyone else for that matter is how they set up their kit. There are many people out there that position their stuff in the most unergonomic way possible. This is especially true with some of the people that set their bass drums facing forward whilst hitting the pedal at an angle. That makes your foot bend at angle it doesn't go naturally, on top of diminishing your performance. Just look at Phil Collins. Years of bad posture caused him to damage a nerve in his spine and that has compromised his right hand grip to the point he can't even hold a stick with that hand anymore. After many years of setting toms right behind his back, Dave Weckl developed back problems and he can't twist his spine to the right towards his back. The late Neil Peart developed tendonitis and had to re-learn how to play. And so on. Ryan Alexander Bloom has a series of videos on drumset ergonomics that will help drum for longer.
... and that's how you get the gig.
Rational Funk is the best Funk, guys.
Nice Toto clip. Short but sweet Byron era.
Nate: **forgot Greg Maddux**
Warren: **gasp**
Warren: **hard unsubscribe**
lol I love maddux too. It's been a good....25 years
@@8020drummer 13... (which is kinda weird, I thought it would have been longer too, but that's still a good chunk of time)
Hey man, I totally agree with letting people play with a technique that works for them... however....
What about RSI? In my opinion technique isn’t just a tool for your sound but one for your body. It’s the role of technique to also prevent unnecessary damage to oneself - and an “unusual” technique has the potential to cause such damage. Would love to hear some thoughts on this.
This is a good point, and something I think can only be solved by the individual player. Max Weinberg was amazed when he saw Travis Barker perform live on Conan when Travis first joined the band, but jokingly warned him he couldn't keep that technique up. And I think Travis' response was something like, yeah it's okay because I take an ice bath after every show haha
Money line......”at least drummers aren’t sparing......yet.”
hello there, thank you for your videos, this is just to let you know that the Hook it up purple button doesn't work...I've tried twice and not received any response. :-)
as not said...
Hmmm it's working for me. Sounds like it might be a browser cache thing?
Did I see you play at Smalls the other night?
2:15 lmao literally
Yes, but it seems like the most gains are made taking lessons from drummers who have a different style. Even drastically different. I'm thinking of all those rock drummers who studied with Freddie Gruber, or Jean Paul Gaster (metal-rock drummer) studying with Johnny Vidacovich.
Interesting hypothesis. It doesn't strike me as wrong off the bat. You may be onto something.
A good hair cut can help
why is this age restricted?
did you read the very opening screen? ;)
It boils down to focusing on WHAT a drummer plays, and not HOW they play it. Learn how to play by what’s comfortable and keeps you from getting hurt