The BS about network switches and the like...

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  • Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
  • In the past years I stated that audiophile network switches reduced jitter in the signal by using better crystals and other components. I was wrong…..
    Contents of this video
    00:00 - Intro
    00:19 - Start of program
    00:56 - Sending packets
    01:42 - But still…
    02:33 - What’s going on?
    04:20 - They want proof
    05:27 - Some proof
    07:00 - The measurements #1
    08:29 - The measurements #2
    09:26 - Sound difference
    10:33 - The wrap
    Relevant videos:
    Why digital circuits influence the sound quality: • Why digital circuits i...
    How a network switch affects audio playback: alpha-audio.net/background/ho...
    Alpha-Audio: HOW and Why we test network switches: • HOW AND WHY we test ne...
    Alpha-Audio: Does a Bad Network Switch RUIN your streamer?: • Alpha Labs - Does a Ba...
    Review Grimm Audio MU1: • Grimm Audio MU1 digita...
    Review Uptone Audio EtherREGEN: • UpTone Audio EtherREGE...
    Review Network Acoustics Muon Pro: • Network Acoustics Muon...
    Playlist Network switches: • AQVox AQ-Switch Specia...
    About my reference setups, May 2023: • About my reference set...
    If you like my work, support it through:
    My Patreon page: / thehbchannel
    Paypal: www.paypal.me/theHBchannel
    My book: • File Based Audio aka S...
    My links:
    My channel: / thehansbeekhuyzen
    My Facebook page: / hansbeekhuyzen
  • Наука та технологія

КОМЕНТАРІ • 161

  • @TheAlphaAudio
    @TheAlphaAudio 9 місяців тому +14

    Thank you for the nice co-operation, Hans! It was very educational!

  • @offrande1148
    @offrande1148 9 місяців тому +9

    Excellent video, Hans. It is in your top 5 in your ever-growing video archive. Great curiosity and follow-through. Nicely done! Thank you..! 😊

  • @chrish7540
    @chrish7540 9 місяців тому +9

    Greatly appreciate the work here. Fascinating results.

    • @scottygdaman
      @scottygdaman 9 місяців тому

      as always great info.
      thank you for your work and information.
      look forward to continuing the audio adventure

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому +1

      Thank you! Cheers!

  • @user-hs4tj7wm6c
    @user-hs4tj7wm6c 9 місяців тому +8

    Hello Hans, as always a great contribution from you!
    I myself have been dealing with the topic "Ethernet sound" for a long time and am also in contact with Alex from Uptone and have also exchanged with Jaap about his first measurement.
    I have my own blog on which I have shared various measurements. All this is not because I want to discredit audiophiles, but I want to understand what is really going on.
    My findings in a nut shell:
    Most of the sound change is caused by common mode noise in the Ethernet signal. This includes the 50Hz leakage currents John talks about in his paper. But also RF noise that enters the ground system in the receivers and then becomes noticeable as in Jaap's measurements, or even takes effect during the conversion itself. The muon filter inserted in Jaap's measurements, I believe, is nothing more than strong common mode chokes reducing common mode noise.

  • @ericstefko4852
    @ericstefko4852 9 місяців тому +36

    I appreciate your drive to find the truth

  • @philipteater3714
    @philipteater3714 9 місяців тому

    I am grateful for you and your great contributions

  • @sjqideez6626
    @sjqideez6626 9 місяців тому

    Thank you Hans, I appreciate your work & efforts. Take care.

  • @Rudolf29
    @Rudolf29 9 місяців тому +1

    Many thank to you Hans!! ❤

  • @christopherkent6512
    @christopherkent6512 9 місяців тому +5

    Good day Hans, I have always loved your videos. The information and moreover the background work you put into same is to be admired. Being an engineer I have struggled with many aspects of Audiophile accessory sales, I will add at this point that my ears are not perfect and do not pick up everything and that my experience with electronics is not in the field of audio. However having worked with very complex analogue and digital distributed control systems I struggle with many claims.
    For you to release this video is admirable, thank you for restoring my belief in my own training and work history. Keep up the great work you do, I will always be watching. Stay well.

  • @josschreur6992
    @josschreur6992 9 місяців тому +2

    Great cooperation between my to dutch favourite reviewers!!

  • @AverageNiceGuy
    @AverageNiceGuy 3 місяці тому

    Brilliant as usual. Thank you Mr. Hans 🙏

  • @TheBerkeleybob
    @TheBerkeleybob 7 місяців тому +3

    Thank you for another fantastic and informative video, Hans. It never ceases to amaze me how many naysayers and detractors we have out there who choose to embrace their (limiting) instruments that spit out data that’s quintessentially useless, RATHER than choose to rely on their ears. But the concepts you explain here in detail explain so much, so thanks again for your dedication to our education. And BTW, I’m a huge fan of Alex and EtherREGEN. 😊

  • @jeremiahchamberlin4499
    @jeremiahchamberlin4499 9 місяців тому +2

    Thank you very much for sharing your insights gained on this issue. I especially like to hear a man say, “Well, I was wrong.” I know there is good stuff coming. I too have been around networking since 1985 or so, but I still don’t understand it all that much. Just getting into its use in audio. Your video was most interesting, I’m now in the market for a passive filter. :-)

  • @edverbeek6292
    @edverbeek6292 9 місяців тому

    You made me happy by ending with a bombshell again. I missed them for some time.

  •  9 місяців тому +4

    Thank you very much for your time and commitment. There is obviously a lot to explore and verify so that the „bits are bits“ people can follow too.

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому +1

      My pleasure

    •  8 місяців тому

      @@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Have you also seen the comment by UpTone Audio? They say there was no reply from you.

  • @fullranger3435
    @fullranger3435 8 місяців тому +1

    Thank you for taking the time and effort to investigate this matter and then make it clear to us. Really well done! Yet, the MUON filter better measurements are not exactly spectacular. Does this mean there may be even more to be achieved with signal filtering? How much even lower can we go with jitter and phase noise?

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  8 місяців тому

      The measurement was relative. The difference in sound quality was drastically better. Measuring phase noise depends on many factors, like power supply, cables used, EMF and so on.

  • @franckraymond6245
    @franckraymond6245 9 місяців тому

    Merveilleux ❤ merci beaucoup 🙏

  • @prokofievchambers8603
    @prokofievchambers8603 Місяць тому

    We love your attention to the details and your pursuit of the truth.

  • @GRAAmusic
    @GRAAmusic 9 місяців тому +1

    I love your work

  • @francois3684
    @francois3684 9 місяців тому +14

    Again, great info Hans!
    I was using an etherregen close to my SoTm sms 200 Ultra Neo streamer in my set up and wanted to improve the cleaning of my LAN (my router and NAS are downstairs- roughly 40 feet away). So I added a Ifi LAN ISilencer ($89 USD) at the output of my router (going to the EtherRegen). An instant big improvement… the biggest being with bass notes; the pitch is so much more perceivable, with more punch and body. The timbers are improved in such a more credible, natural way.
    So yes, clean up your stream and everything is going to sound closer to the “real thing”.

  • @bobsykes
    @bobsykes 9 місяців тому +12

    A $1,600 US analog filter for Ethernet cables??? I'm sorry. You lost me here. No. Just no.

  • @MOWFWDU
    @MOWFWDU 9 місяців тому +2

    I will most likely never own a Muon, as hearing the difference is dependent on the variables you mention, some of which I cannot control. I have just spent $800, mostly on bass traps and some diffusion. I instantly heard a difference when I quickly positioned the just arrived traps in my room, I am now in the longer process of dialing in placement of the traps and calibration of my Genelec speaker system, but it's clear to me that it was money well spent. Although you did say that better upstream clocking is a component of achieving the "natural" sound we pursue, the distortion off the the analogue signal that carries the digital information you also discussed had a larger resonance in my mind. I also read somewhere in the Uptone literature that using a more accurate clock than the one already in the EtherRegen had not much effect. I managed to buy a used ER and a quality used ethernet cable for ~$650 earlier in creating the endgame set up I have now, which includes a Wattson Madison, largely because of your reviews. Thank you for all you do for us Hans!

    • @MrBonger88
      @MrBonger88 9 місяців тому

      Money spent spent on room treatment (traps, diffusers etc) is money well spent. I’m in the same position and like you heard differences immediately

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому

      It's the complete chain that counts, including acoustics and filter.

  • @MakenshiFox
    @MakenshiFox 9 місяців тому +2

    Just to note, there are a couple of standards that can improve jitter and/or packet loss on ethernet. They are AVB ("audio video bridging") and DCB ("data center bridging"). In both cases, they require hardware that supports the standard, and is not something you can do on a generic ethernet switch.

    • @jmtennapel
      @jmtennapel 9 місяців тому

      Can you name a streamer which supports this?

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  8 місяців тому +1

      It’s NOT about jitter in the Ethernet signal

  • @furiososso
    @furiososso 9 місяців тому

    Again, thank you Hans.

  • @ruudstet3186
    @ruudstet3186 9 місяців тому +10

    Picoseconds... I didn't see that one coming. Glorious work, Hans and Jaap! Visitors wonder (and smirk) at the laboratorium - like aproach audio seems to require at my place and probably yours, fellow audiophiles. But Hans is so right: It only takes secondes to hear. And there is usually no way back once you heard It.
    Oh well, still great times we live in with the equipment available. And the reviewers that help explain what we hear.

    • @JingoLoBa57
      @JingoLoBa57 9 місяців тому +2

      Ears and hearing can distinguish down to about 10 picoseconds, this is where MQA makes a difference.

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому

      👍🏼

  • @techtt6213
    @techtt6213 9 місяців тому +6

    Good video. Important for audiophiles to once again consider that digital is digital. If it arrives uncorrupted, it's fine.

    • @techtt6213
      @techtt6213 9 місяців тому +10

      There are so many companies who knowingly make products which are stupidly expensive that make no difference. Less technically inclined people will not know, buy it, and because of confirmation bias think it works. That money could've been spent on better speaker/amps (that make a huge difference) or a nice dinner with the family.

    • @No_Limits_411
      @No_Limits_411 9 місяців тому +1

      ​@@techtt6213Yes. But say you have 200000$ system (and it happens a lot) - would you not spend say 2000$ to make it better?

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому +5

      @techtt6213 I don't think you got the message in the video completely right...

    • @techtt6213
      @techtt6213 8 місяців тому

      ​@@No_Limits_411nope, I even strongly advised against it

    • @techtt6213
      @techtt6213 8 місяців тому +2

      ​@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChanneljitter doesn't matter, on the receiving end it gets compensated. Was the listening done blindly? I often did a blind test (or even lied to have some confirmation bias) between Spotify over Bluetooth (yes) and a wired Qobuz stream. Either blind, or told people they would now hear Qobuz whilst really it was Spotify. And every single time confirmation bias won and they'd describe it as more natural (favorite term) or more open. Needs to be blind, if you can still tell the difference multiple times I'd agree.

  • @a_macaulay
    @a_macaulay 9 місяців тому +7

    Why would the network matter if the whole song could be transferred and buffered on the player within a second of starting playing. Then there isn’t any additional traffic and the song is playing from internal memory. As far as Ethernet, the player could just optically isolate the port so there is no electrical interference to filter out.

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому

      Then you assume that buffers do what they supposed to do perfect.....

    • @v0ldy54
      @v0ldy54 Місяць тому +1

      @@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel yes, they do, otherwise you wouldn't hear less clean audio, you'd be getting an awfully gltiched mess that's basically unplayable.
      I'm wondering why nobody that claims switches make a difference will provide a simply test of packets integrity with Wireshark

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  Місяць тому +1

      Because the packets do arrive perfectly. I have explained in several videos it’s the noise and distortion of the analog signal that is used to transport the digital signal that cause minute timing errors on the clock input of the digital to analog converter.

    • @jpz1970
      @jpz1970 11 днів тому

      But the ones and zeroes that are playing from the separately clocked buffer memory don't care if the transmission to it is riddled with timing error. 10010110 transmitted with timing error is the same as 10010110 transmitted without timing errors because the buffer memory uses its own clock.

  • @arsenal10141014
    @arsenal10141014 Місяць тому

    Great video. Research. Thank you Hans

  • @stefdriver
    @stefdriver 8 місяців тому +2

    Seems like the old “noise on AC mains line affecting analog signals in your amplifier” argument.

  • @joseauger1353
    @joseauger1353 8 місяців тому +3

    Hi, Hans. I am using an Ediscreation Silent Switch OCXO and an Ediscreation Fiber Box II. The change both brought to my system is incredible. Both have OCXO clocks for the ethernet digital signal and the Fiber Box II internally converts from wired to optical and back again, thus galvanically isolating the signal from the modem supplied by the internet service company to the switch. In addition, I have a filter from PS Audio that is placed at the entrance of the cable that comes from the street into the aforementioned modem.

  • @rickyblair8802
    @rickyblair8802 7 місяців тому

    I learn more here and quicker than anywhere

  • @VQR420
    @VQR420 8 місяців тому +3

    TL;DW "I measured something and I assume that's why I hear a difference."
    Quite the leap in logic.

  • @Maxiinti
    @Maxiinti 9 місяців тому +2

    I always respect the truth 👍

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому

      But, as always, the question remains what is the truth? The truth of today or that of tomorrow🥴

    • @Maxiinti
      @Maxiinti 9 місяців тому

      @@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel this is the million dollar question 🙋‍♂️

  • @Erwt64
    @Erwt64 9 місяців тому

    Admitting you were wrong is a noble act. Kudos!

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому +3

      For me that's standard practice.

    • @Erwt64
      @Erwt64 9 місяців тому

      If weren't so stubborn, it would be a full time job for me. @@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel

  • @No_Limits_411
    @No_Limits_411 9 місяців тому +2

    Like it has been said: what is heard, it cannot be unheard 🙂🙂🙂

  • @rudolfroeder6757
    @rudolfroeder6757 9 місяців тому +2

    Thx Hans for the info.

  • @exljbris
    @exljbris 2 місяці тому

    Thank you Hans for all your insights on hifi. I was wondering if the Roon RAAT protocol, which they claim is 'bit perfect' makes a difference in streaming music vs for example steaming from Tidal direct?

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  2 місяці тому +1

      It is easily tested using the Audio Precision behind me. And, indeed, it is bit perfect. But there is more to a digital audio signal than bit perfect. Watch ua-cam.com/video/ZCFvIzzMqfk/v-deo.html

    • @exljbris
      @exljbris 2 місяці тому

      @@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thanks a lot. I'm new to this and I'm trying to grasp it. I'll rewatch the video soon.

  • @AverageNiceGuy
    @AverageNiceGuy 3 місяці тому

    Thanks!

  • @robcaputo9708
    @robcaputo9708 6 місяців тому

    Okay I watched this video I upgraded my switch and as you say the improvement was very good. Now do I buy audio Ethernet cables?

  • @ericelmore887
    @ericelmore887 5 місяців тому

    Good Hans, so I’m using WiFi when streaming with my dmp-a6me with lps, I’m running a usb from dmp-a6 into denafrips iris DDC and toslink from iris into sonnet morpheus Dac. Will I improve my sound by running a Ethernet with a network switch?

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  5 місяців тому

      If you choose the right one. See my reviews:
      ua-cam.com/play/PLMbsmejHnP8HxdJ89h4s30gXO2u42-xmR.html&si=jKvzA7tMr4qg_Sqi

  • @iepdeklein1701
    @iepdeklein1701 8 місяців тому +1

    Would you like to plan a test comparing measurements of the Muon with for instance the more affordable SOtM passive Lan filter (that i use) 😮

  • @No_Limits_411
    @No_Limits_411 9 місяців тому

    Thats the commitment and drive that is uplifting 👍👏👏

  • @AnomieDomine
    @AnomieDomine 12 днів тому

    How much do you see cable length or number of hops affecting the outcome? Does more ever equal better sound? What's makes these devices so expensive - is it R&D?

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  11 днів тому

      If you use an Audiofile switch, keep the distance between it and the network player short. Prices are because of R&D, components and small series.

  • @thomashornstein4253
    @thomashornstein4253 9 місяців тому

    Hans, this is certainly a great video and I appreciate your work and competence a lot. But ultimately I didn’t really understand it - please forgive my ignorance as a formally trained electrical engineer, decades ago. Somehow rather prosaic questions aren’t answered. I’m sure you could do that with ease: a) what does this filter actually do? b) where and how would I need to place it in my stereo chain (between which gear exactly)? C) I have a setup with a relatively good DAC and active monitors in a decent room, BUT my digital signals comes from a NAS, via a Switch, via a WLAN rooter, via relatively weak signal (our house is rather large), through a WiiM pro streamer to the DAC
    ; isn’t in such poor setting a “filter” doing anything good?
    In short, do you have some practical guidance for practical settings? Cheers.

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому +1

      What this filter actually do? We son't know. Apart from reducing phase noise, of course. It is placed in between the streamer and the network, closest to the streamer. It doesn't seem a sound investment given the streamer you use.

    • @thomashornstein4253
      @thomashornstein4253 9 місяців тому

      @@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks, that's what I thought.👍

    • @IronHorsey3
      @IronHorsey3 5 місяців тому

      Great work Hans but I can share that my high end audio system with monoblock amps benefited greatly with a Wiim Pro streamer. With a Verizon fiber router, a Cisco switch and fiber, the improvements are nothing less than excellent. I’ve heard the benefits are obtainable with Juniper and other commercial switches for far less than audiophile versions. Agreed the quality of the system will play a major role. Thanks for your strong contribution to music quality and understanding.

  • @uffe9270
    @uffe9270 8 місяців тому

    To my understanding audio (and video) streaming utilizes UDP. UDP packets beneifites from low latency, but there's no possibility of retransmits or rearranding of packets. They are sent in an ordered stream. So the quality of networking components could potentially have an impact on the stream, eg. packet loss. Please correct me if I'm wrong. BTW: I'm not a network engineer either.

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  8 місяців тому

      Have you tried an audiophile switch?

    • @uffe9270
      @uffe9270 8 місяців тому +2

      @@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel No, I have not. I do not experience packet loss in my simple setup at home, so I believe my equipment is of adequate standard. I only have a broadband router with WiFi and four Ethernet ports, One of the ports is connected to my NAS (wired short distance). Streaming endpoints are connected via WiFi (Marantz SACD 30n, Mobile phones, tablets), A WiFi extender helps were the signal otherwise would be weak.
      I just wanted to point out that your statement in the video regarding retransmission and reordering of packets does not apply to UDP connections/packets - which is the protocol used for media streaming (if I'm correct). The UDP protocol only has a checksum. If the checksum doesn't match the data (stream) at the endpoint, then the packet is discarded. This will be audible and/or visible of course.

  • @thinkIndependent2024
    @thinkIndependent2024 9 місяців тому +2

    Hans my point has always been that with local rendering with the music source @ device.( as a baseline for operation)
    All those readings can also be influenced by .02 volts I've built Linear Power supplies with 8 isolated outputs including my network switch.
    ( ( preventing device to device noise is critical)) in the power chain

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому

      I would rather use a good, audio grade SMPS for the switch.

    • @thinkIndependent2024
      @thinkIndependent2024 9 місяців тому

      You can clean SMPS to "HIFI GRADE" with over the counter parts then add ferrite to each cord to reduce EMI. Preventing noise propagation is the actual goal

  • @wiseguy2600
    @wiseguy2600 9 місяців тому

    I got the iPower PSU to improve my Netgear switch (recommended by Jaap) but that seemed to make the sound very sharp and think sounding. Any idea why that could be the case? I had to switch back to the factory supplied PSU...

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому +1

      My guess would be that the iPower psu makes the switch more precise. That will make the DAC have more resolution leading to a sharper sound due to other problems in your setup. Like interconnects that use poor silver. But of course I can be totally wrong. The iFi psu really is good for that money and most likely better than the one that came with the switch

    • @wiseguy2600
      @wiseguy2600 9 місяців тому

      @@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thanks Hans. I was wondering if the PSU having more Amperage (1.5A) vs the standard PSU (0.5A) could have anything to do with the observation. Then there's the central house router that feeds the switch via LAN... Wondering if just having one switch in the chain improve the pSU enough... thanks

    • @gioponti6359
      @gioponti6359 9 місяців тому

      I have tried the ifi PSU too (the X version), I believe on the same switch, and while I found it quite accurate, it sounded quite a bit too much of a good thing, so similar to your observation.
      And I would think it might have to do with the PSU’s bleeding of HF hash into the power line, not its DC output. You might try that: if you insert the psu and power some device that is not linked to your hifi gear you might notice a shift in SQ. Or not ;) - anyway I tried tried to eliminate as many switch mode power supplies as i can, the remaining ones get ferrite between socket and psu, to reduce HF hash. And it did improve things in terms of treble smoothness. now I use a linear Psu for the netgear switch, an sbooster, with the ultra device and - an ifi dc ipurifier at its output (yes that is crazy) but its better ;) possibly overkill, but I found it an important improvement wrt prat and dynamics. Not sure what is going on there.
      Audiophonics too have an ok lin psu for

  • @eya83fr
    @eya83fr 3 місяці тому +2

    Hans you still are not understanding how digital audio transport over a network works : as you said, there's buffering on both ends of the IP transport part, so IP/Ethernet jitter measurement is totally irrevelant. Those bits are not directly transfered to the DAC chip, but debuffered by the DAC itself at its won pace (thats is, with its own internal clock)

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  3 місяці тому +1

      I am no network specialist. But when it comes to audio, I know a thing or two. My guess is, more than you. I am learning about the influence bit transport has on digital audio. But regardless whether all bits arrive in tact - and they do -- there are influences on the sound quality and what I described in this and other videos were base on the best explanations of digital audio experts. Denying what's audible doesn't bring us further.

  • @Janneman1951
    @Janneman1951 7 місяців тому

    Last week I bought a Grimm MU1 this combining with the MM Tambaqui. Does it still make sense using the Etheregen which I already owned or can I remove this from my system?

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  7 місяців тому

      Did you listen to it?

    • @Janneman1951
      @Janneman1951 7 місяців тому +1

      I had the Etheregen between my switch and the MU1 and removed it, I can't notice any difference now, in my old situation it did differ

    • @IronHorsey3
      @IronHorsey3 5 місяців тому

      Not surprised as your streamer is uniquely exceptional. Already built in.

  • @ms10241024
    @ms10241024 8 місяців тому

    There seems to me to be one big question here: how is a passive device able to improve phase noise? Unless I completely misunderstand the definition of phase noise, it's essentially a measurement of the deviation from perfection of a periodic signal. How can a passive device, such as the Muon do this?
    This video article's title seems to me a little unfair and misleading. Fine, it's a fair and balanced review of the Muon, with an added technical assessment. But I see no equivalent review or analysis of any network switch. Will we be seeing an equivalent suite of measurements of the EtherREGEN?
    Myself, I am the grateful owner of an EtherREGEN, and I would state that it had as big an impact on my system as the Innuos PhoenixUSB did. Why the digital signal needs regenerating before AND after my Zenith streamer has long been a puzzle to me, but one I happily accept. Returning to the topic of phase noise, I also added an AfterDark OCXO clock to the EtherREGEN, plus an optical stage to precede it, plus decent LPSs to both clock and EtherREGEN. All, to some extent, have offered benefit.

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  8 місяців тому

      Perhaps you might want to watch this video: ua-cam.com/video/B-StTplQZys/v-deo.htmlsi=UUmwV4JJ7iSV6xIW

  • @andrewwebb9426
    @andrewwebb9426 9 місяців тому +3

    Not for the first time, I wonder whether having Golden Ears is a gift or a curse! Does Hans actually like music - he never mentions the music, only the technicalities.

    • @jmtennapel
      @jmtennapel 9 місяців тому +4

      There’s no such thing as golden ears (great title for a next James Bond movie), only an accurate hearing which needs to be trained. And you train it by listening to music 🎵

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому

      Amen

    • @leach720
      @leach720 9 місяців тому

      Hans does mention the music, he has ten videos about the music he likes: ua-cam.com/play/PLMbsmejHnP8HvTcBKS2pA_YnWPvAczgJT.html&si=ly3J-0QpIHlJpocN

  • @Temp19750118
    @Temp19750118 9 місяців тому +9

    If data integrity is maintained by every switch and streamer interprets data, how it could affect the sound? Does road quality determines quality of the goods transported on the track? No, until integrity of the goods is not affected. Is there any filter or conditioner for the wifi? Can you hear the difference between files played from different hard disk drives or memory cards?

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому

      If a drive is in a case with a noisy psu, I might. It's not the signal itself, it is the carries of the digital signal that is influenced.

    • @eya83fr
      @eya83fr 3 місяці тому +4

      @@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel sorry, but a digital signal can't be "noisy". It's 0 and 1 (not quantum bits...) and if they are corrupted, it can be detected (and sometimes corrected) by error correction codes.

    • @AnomieDomine
      @AnomieDomine 12 днів тому

      @@eya83fr I think that's the disconnect, although I might not understand. Even light takes time to move. I think he is looking at the tiny nearly immeasurably differences in the signal and believes they affect affect the sound. Like maybe a 1 or 0 has a slightly higher or lower level, shape, or length. I think it's similar to why it's difficult for hardware midi to sync than expected. But I would think here it would either break the signal or add a tiny bit of latency to the whole stream. I can't imagine a halfway decent filter or converter having an audible difference from this though, but I'm not entirely surprised if you measure it with enough detail there would be a difference in the transmitted signal itself

  • @VJA74
    @VJA74 8 місяців тому

    Doesn't wireless transmission in the form of wifi help at all? Pretty impressive speeds we get these days over wifi.

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  8 місяців тому

      It’s not the wifi technology as such but the way it is implemented, including the locally available bandwidth. In an apartment building that will be more difficult than on a ranch.

  • @Hendeaux
    @Hendeaux 2 місяці тому

    keep up the good work! people need to know this info as digital glare and time smearing can totally ruin the music. Thank you for your clear and considered commentary. a great digital front end allows me to listen to a wider variety of music that previously was quite tiring or simply un-engaging.

  • @myself61607
    @myself61607 6 місяців тому

    Don’t all these excellent reviews of streaming devices make a good case for the cd player?

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  5 місяців тому +1

      I haven't owned a CD player for donkey's years. And don't want to go back to them.

    • @myself61607
      @myself61607 5 місяців тому +1

      @@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I guess cdp introduces problems of their own. Apart from their inherent limitations of music choice.
      You have made me interested to try out the Muon filter with the Pachanko server I run. Thanks.

    • @myself61607
      @myself61607 5 місяців тому

      Well if Network acoustics invented and patented this improving device they should be doing very well. If they have not protected it there is no stopping others from getting one and breaking it opening and seeing what is in there and if they choose include it on their streamer ethernet port. Maybe expensive streamers like Grimm already has it?

  • @edgoewie2132
    @edgoewie2132 2 місяці тому +1

    Hello, of course these test executed by people owning commercial businesses are very easy considered a marketing tool. The bigger the number of devices they can sell as being " audiophile grade " the more money they will make. It seems that the Grimm devices are kind of immune to the garbage that comes along with the signal delivered by your internet provider. EtherRegen with a audiophile quality power supply, some nice feet, aftermarket power cable, ethernet cable and you are getting close to 2000 € additional cost to a device that is not exactly cheap. Sometimes this audio hobby is getting boring. I already decided that after receiving the Grimm i will stop investing in digital gear. Greetings,Eddy

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  2 місяці тому

      The Grimm player doesn't need these peripherals.

    • @edgoewie2132
      @edgoewie2132 2 місяці тому

      @@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hello Hans, i already have the Etherregen with an improved power supply but probably it won't improve anything so it is good to know! In your mu2 thread you already mentioned that very probably i won't be needed. Which makes things easier. Reducing the number of power cables and " interconnecting cables" will save me some money and should bring some improvements. But on some " marketing site" USA based i already see people asking about upgrading the fuse. I already have a bamboo chopping block so i will try that one. There is info on the internet about diy vibration killing feet using copper sponge as the key element!! Greetings,Eddy

  • @johnshaw359
    @johnshaw359 9 місяців тому +4

    The internet and associated online services work perfectly well due to Transmission Control Protocol and Internet Protocols.; Ethernet itself is differentially transmitted, etc. Concentrate on your internal system clocks.

  • @seedney
    @seedney 2 місяці тому

    How can we proof that the measurements are legit?

  • @_UnknownEntity
    @_UnknownEntity 9 місяців тому +2

    1- as an IT hardware professional, i know for sure that switches leak data. Most likely due to not switching fast enough. I'm assuming the opposite should be true here as well, ie. they block out bits that should have been let through. Now computers are designed to handle this without breaking a sweat. But do you think this negatively affects audio?
    2- Is this device acting as a buffer (a storage buffer type) between the switch and the dac input?

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому +1

      This is the first time I hear this from an IT professional. That will impact isochonous connections. But should not happen with asynchronous connections I would say.

    • @a_macaulay
      @a_macaulay 9 місяців тому +2

      For a home network this should be extremely rare unless you have very very bad setup. This would show up as dropped packets and can be tracked. If you are getting dropped packets at all on a wired connection most likely you have some defective equipment.

    • @_UnknownEntity
      @_UnknownEntity 9 місяців тому

      ​@@a_macaulaygood point. It's a bug but was it a result of hardware going faulty or just the way it does it's switching/processing or a combination of factors, I don't know. This was me doing some testing on my home network. Specifically, the ISP provided switch (no not a router and connected before the modem). What I found was it was randomly letting through 5-8 bits when it should be blocking that data (due to a different ip configuration, very complicated...). This is what led me to wonder if the reverse is true as well, ie. blocking data that should be let through, say for example the first 5-8 bits of a stream.
      Now, when one is referring to computers or servers etc. the TCP/IP protocol is the first layer that is designed to easily rectify such lost bits. So it doesn't always amount to packet loss. In fact, the errors have to be seriously bad for the TCP checksum correction to fail and result in a packet loss.
      Also, the TCP protocol (or any other protocol ftm) can ask for retransmission of the lost packet in case of uncorrectable errors. This again, the packet is not fully lost, ie. it's recovered. Packet loss would only result if the data can not be retransmitted, due to things like being flushed out of memory or not being in memory in the first place. That's as far as computers are concerned. Music is a whole different topic. Here, bits are not (just) bits. It is time sensitive, and extremely so. Hans should be aware of various DAC configs in this regard and resulting effects. Also, audio gear is nowhere nearly capable of possessing as much processing power.
      Also, regarding the retransmission request of lost data packets - the USB 3 and above standards can also request retransmission in case of failed checksum for data integrity, just like TCP/IP. I have no idea which audio gears actually utilise this.
      Retransmission request and receive times on a home network, or a USB 3 connect between a host and recipient, definitely would be in picoseconds, even if at the higher end of the ps scale in the worst case scenario. So request and receipt completed even before the entire data transfer completes.
      All this raises a further question - the time factor. I had gone down this rabbit hole long ago, and it had looked very interesting to find what was there, but I guess it was too far down ...

    • @_UnknownEntity
      @_UnknownEntity 9 місяців тому

      ​@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannelah yes. I remember the asynchronous & synchronous part now. Also, please do refer my last comment here.
      Just leaving it here for you, in the hopes that you are the best person to be able to use this, if it fits, and maybe dig a little deeper for us. 👍

  • @Erwt64
    @Erwt64 9 місяців тому

    May I suggest you do an episode on phase correctness? In source, amplification, cables, filtration, actual loudspeaker, loudspeaker placement, and listener positioning. I.m.h.o. an important factor that is often neglected.

    • @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
      @TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel  9 місяців тому

      Every device I review is measured, including a phase measurement.

    • @Erwt64
      @Erwt64 9 місяців тому +1

      Could be, but you barely mention it. And you don't discuss the utter importance of it. In this domain I was totally flabbergasted when I compared my KEF 107 Reference to the Wilson Audio Cub 2 and other d'Appolito setups. A world of difference. They even presented spatial bass, which I thought was theoretically not possible. But when harmonics of bass instruments reach your ears with correct timing, it most certainly is.@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel