Longer video than normal. A lot of info to cover and it didn't make sense to cover not only how to setup the XR18, but also touch on the speaker/amp system and tips and pitfalls for mixing with the subs on an aux. I broke those parts down into their own chapters so people could skip parts they might already know... or click back to go over a chapter again. Let me know any questions. This was a viewer suggested topic. I'm always open to suggestions. Just leave me a comment :) Amazon Affiliate Links- Behringer XR18 on Amazon: amzn.to/2LfTpmO Midas MR18 on Amazon: amzn.to/3q4Z4Li 5 Typical Mistakes Behringer XR18 and Midas MR18 Users Make: ua-cam.com/video/EilVDp39A9g/v-deo.html Behringer XR18 / X Air Tutorials: ua-cam.com/play/PLWtgwSNlxTjOt3tyG7cYXrmSleKXHlepj.html Behringer X32 / Midas M32 Tutorials: ua-cam.com/play/PLWtgwSNlxTjPJCmx6FF1igBWd30PxLbCG.html Alan's Live and Studio Sound Production Tech Tips and Info: ua-cam.com/play/PLWtgwSNlxTjNBv778YnTynwfidc6oWqc9.html
Great video and great starting point for anyone using an xr18 or AIR. I would just like to mention that you can obtain a 24db low/high frequency cut by stacking the Q filters. Start by setting both filter 1 and 2 at the same frequency and set them both to Lcut. Qual size has no affect and can be ignored. Applied to the Sub AUX Lcut (40Hz) and Hcut (100Hz) and Main L-R with Lcut (100hz), would functionally have a simple cross-over (minus time delay and phasing).
It has been 4 months since I submitted a comment Alan. I'm getting a really good handle on the XR18 now. YOU have been instrumental in my grasping of the basic concepts and I still refer to your videos to learn more and more. Thanks so much!
Good info. Using mains to power amp and 12" PA speakers. I wound up for my home studio using the headphones out and ran both inputs to my center powered sub. The sub already filters high frequencies, win-win easy-peasy. I did this because I also have outboard crossover if I use larger PA system. BTW, you get more input signal using both lines of the stereo signal into the sub. You can get away with a mono 1/4".
Same here. This guy helped me realize the flexibility of the XR18. I hated it before I really began to understand what it’s capable of. I managed to route headphone mixed from bus sends in my daw to USB returns. So much more professional and totally changes my workflow.
0:00 Intro 0:20 Setting Up The XR18 For Aux Fed Subs 6:12 Setting Up The Speakers/Amps For Aux Fed Subs 11:46 Tips And Advice For Mixing On Aux Fed Subs
Thanks so much for all the great videos and clear, detailed information! I'm relatively new to my Midas MR18 and your channel is the best at simply explaining concepts and use!!
@@AlanHamiltonAudio ahahaha 😂 seriously though mate, these vids have been an incredible source of info, I'm giving my XR18 it's second run this weekend and am gonna give the aux fed Seb method a try. Thanks for sharing your knowledge ✌️
Thank you so very much for your awesome tutorials. My Band has two Behringer XR18 / X Air, one for use, one for backups. This helps tremendously! Kind regards,
Great video when I bought it there was no videos showing a lot of info the company just through out only the basics thanks for your input really nice explanation
Thanks! I'm planning to keep churning these type of videos out ...for the XR18, the X32, and general live audio production videos... with a smattering of recording mixed in.
This has been the most helpful channel for mixing with this mixer. I picked up the XR18 in 2018 on a recommendation from a cousin that plays bass and runs the monitor mix in a country band. Ive been using this mixer to run sound/monitors for my band and others along with DJ gigs for weddings. I have 4 powered tops ( harbinger V212s no dsp features) and run 2 on each side for stereo. My subs are 2 Fender 115SA passive subs powered by a QSC 1310 USA power amp in bridged mono. Ive always done the low pass fillter On aux 6 and the high pass on the mains to act as the "crossover" I want to get one of those rack mount crossover units that let you do the mids/highs in stereo and run mono subs. I am totaly ok with getting a crossover thats analog and doesnt have all the digital interfacing stuff on it but i am confused/intimidated by terms like 2 way stereo/ 3 way mono and another one that shows 3 way stereo/ 4 way mono. Is there a guide out there for making sense of this and how to get that kind of setup running?
Oh wow this so well done. This is going to help so many people working with subs. I once had a power sub available to me for a music festival with my xr18 but then did not know how to wire in and configure. Thank you 🙏. There is a face book xr18 group and I would like to start sharing your videos if this has not already been done. Many thanks Alan.
Your vids have helped me out immensely Alan! Thank you for all your time you are putting into them! I'm an old "analog" sound guy and getting this XR18 has really "lightened" the load so to speak! I have an issue with my XR18 in that I get nothing out of my headphones to monitor with them. Not sure if I need to send my unit in for repairs or if I just haven't found the "button" to engage them! I know my headphones are good, as I can plug them into my Soundcraft mixer, and they work flawlessly, but not out of the Behringer!
Have you changed the default routing/setup in the console? In X-Air Edit... Click In/Out (routing) on upper right then tab over to MAIN OUT and you should see a graph with PHONES on the left side... that there should be a circle in the block for "Monitor". That is the default setup too. Then the other place to check is SETUP.... and tab over to MONITOR. Monitor source should be LR AFL in the drop down. Channel solo is normally PFL. Bus solo also normally PFL. Monitor level is normally 0.0 (which is unity... but it can be turned up or down so if yours got turned down to off that would kill the headphones)... And there's a source trim that also should be a unity (0.0). I think all of that is the default settings. Of course, there's also the headphone level control on the front of the XR... Which should be up... but could possibly be bad...?
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks, right now we just have a few band members who are frustrated with the IEM mix. I'm thinking of changing their IEM bus from "pre-fader" to "post fader" just to give them the front of house mix in their ears, this will take the control away from them, but may just be a simple solution to giving them a mix they don't have to dial in. Any thoughts on this?
Mon Setup Video: ua-cam.com/video/5gzsEErKdb8/v-deo.html As long as you understand what you're doing when you do that change, then you'll know what to watch out for to see if your idea can work for them. The pitfall will probably be vocalist(s), or at least the more likely pitfall. Are you mixing from the stage or do you have someone out front? If there's someone out front it puts another variable into your plan. If it's just the band mixing from stage, then you know exactly what is going on. And besides that, probably aren't changing things much at all during the night. So that could help. Plus, you can still give the vocalists more or less via the channel send, even if it is post fader. It's just going to track up/down with the fader from that point you set. And beyond that, if the fader changes are bothering the singer(s), then you can just switch off the global send changes and set the vocal channel aux sends to be pre fader (or any point pre-fader you want), while leaving the other channels post fader. "To break the rules, first you need to know the rules". So you know the reasoning in pre-fader auxes for mons... and if you have a theory to try, if it works for you in specific case, then it works for you. And if it doesn't, you'll probably be able to recognize the symptoms and fix it, or try something else.
I've been trying for the longest time to figure out how to sync the Main LR level with the sub Aux level and this answered it, it can't. At least I know now that I wasn't going crazy for no reason.
There's no direct way... but there is a bit of a workaround if you're comfortable working with DCAs. If you have a spare DCA you can assign EVERYTHING to that DCA (every channel and every FX return (not any of the master aux feeds though)). So once you have you main out and sub out level set and balanced, use the DCA from then on as your master. Since the aux sub is a post fader send on the channels you're sending to the sub feed, that DCA will work exactly like an overall master level control for the mixer that INCLUDES the sub's feed.
I would add a word about the importance of removing "low end mud" on every channel (HPF) AND also using the Aux On Sub to punch up individual low end elements on a channel by channel basis too. Removing crud from channels feeds monitors and reverbs with a cleaner signal for a better mix overall.
Been a while, but I thought I mentioned the importance of using a HPF even when using aux feds just for that reason... It might've been in context of a 'warning' about aux fed subs 'fooling' the tech by removing unneeded lows in the house, but would still be in any recording feeds, streams, fills, mons from FOH, etc... and then the warning not to use aux fed subs to 'replace' the HPF. As you said, you still need both.
you can use two lcut filters on an xr12/16/18 to match the steep slope of a lr24 filter on an x32, in fact when you do that on the x32 it disables one of the other filters in the eq because internally that's what it is doing
that said, i don't want to use the xr18 as a dsp, it feels like that'd be a nightmare to manage as you said, i just don't have a good alternative yet since the xr18/x32 support linux and no dedicated dsp does.
ok, i think i have a plan, i've only got 3 stage monitors so that leaves 3 aux sends available. i'm going to use two of them for my mains along with the last one for my sub, with the lcut and hcut doubled up for suitable crossover roll off, and to achieve a single volume control i'll assign each of the three busses to a dca group. this will let me monitor the full mix for streaming/recording and also allow complete control over the subs and tops without costing me an extra $1k for an x32 or a loudspeaker management system, which is money i'd rather spend elsewhere on what is essentially a hobby right now. thoughts on this?
Great video, but now I'm bummed. I have an x32 and have it set up for aux subs using the center channel linked to the mains. I also have an mr18 that I was forced to use last minute at a show without a crossover available. I set up aux 6 to use and was looking everywhere for the option to link to mains. Couldn't find it and spent the night fussing about with things. Now I know why I couldn't find out how to link them lol. Seems like a no brainer to include that feature on the mr18. Hope they change it soon! Anyways, watched a few of your vids now so I subbed today. Thanks for all the tips! Cheers
One thing you can do, if you have an available DCA, is assign everything to a DCA and call it "Main DCA" (or whatever). Set it at unity to start. Once you then have you main out and sub level balance set as you want (just like normal), since the sub is on a post fader aux, that DCA will now work as a main level for everything.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio I haven't worked with DCA's much as I mainly do smaller shows where I'm working a single stage with a stack on each side. It's old school lol. I will definitely get familiar with the approach you laid out in your reply. I still wish the mr18 had the center channel feature though. Thanks for the tip, I'll try it for sure!
They don't give users a way on the XR18, but what you can do is assign EVERY channel to a single DCA and name it MAIN DCA (or whatever you want to call it). That includes the FX RETURNS and 17-18 Aux In stereo channel. You still have to initially set the Main L-R and Sub faders to get your initial balance, but once they are set then you can just use your MAIN DCA that you created to control the mixer volume on one fader from that point. You can leave the Sub and Main L-R alone at that point. The key is that your sub aux on the channels has to be set to POST fader... but it should be anyway.
there's another way round it if you use mixing station and are creating a custom layout. you can create an iDCA and place it in the mix layer. if you assign the main fader and the aux 6 fader to it, the iDCA will control both at the same time.
Thank you for these videos! I am a DJ and karaoke host. I have 2 Bose L1 Model II speaker towers with bass modules. I wondered how I could best add an 18" EV sub that I have (for parties and weddings). I have used aux 6 for the sub and set the sub's low pass at 100Hz on the EV speaker. Not sure I loved what I heard but it was ok. I did match the faders (LR and aux) or at least come close. I only routed the music to the sub (no vocal mics to sub). But I did nothing for EQ on the Bose towers as there is no setting I can find to adjust directly on the speakers. So basically I have backing music feeding LR & the sub aux. And vocals only feeding the LR (no monitor as the Bose is setup to be the monitor too).
Thank you for all the valuable information. I’m a music teacher and recently started using the XR18 for my student bands. I am using JBL EON 615 as my main speakers and I also have two subwoofers (JBL EON618). Should I connect my subwoofers using the aux, as explained in this video, or should I connect the two subs to the main speakers? Apparently the eon 615 have a crossover system integrated. Thanks for your help
Unless you need to wrangle the last dB out of the system, I'd keep it simple and just utilize speakers and their own crossover network. As long as you aren't trying to milk the last dB out of the system, you should be fine that way. Plus, if it's a case where the kids will be using the system, that's even more of a reason to keep it simple.
Thank you! What would be the proper order? XR18 > EON 615 > EON 618 Subs or XR18> EON 618 Subs > EON 615 ? Or does it really matter ? Thank you so much again for everything. Your videos are really helpful
@@miramontemusic I've not used those but I think ("think" ;) ) that they just have signal pass thru jacks and a preset for sub. So I don't think it matters which cab you hit with the XLR first. But do make sure you set them for the 'sub' preset.
If you noticed on the X32 Low1 when you select LR24 (Linkwitz-Riley @ 24dB slope), it disables the Low2 ?? You can also stack two low cuts on XR18 to double that slope to 24 as well. I haven't done a phase alignment check to see if it matches LR24 but I suspect it does as a single cut (low or high) is 12dB. I've stacked two low cuts and two high cuts on a XR18 Aux output to get a controlled band pass filter before and it works. I probably should install REW and check the phase to verify.
you pointed out that the 12db per octave low and high pass filters aren't great for creating a crossover because they are too shallow, but what if you use two 12db filters at the same frequency? that creates a 24db filter, like the one you use as an example at 11:36. is doing this a viable option?
Yes, definitely a viable option. I didn't want to get too far into the weeds and figured anyone who understood about concepts like that would be able to apply it. I'm not the biggest proponent of doing crossover functions within a console versus a dedicated processor... but that is because I'm in situations with guest engineers, multiple bands, different consoles, etc... In fact, some shows are racks and stacks so my consoles aren't even onsite. So if processing was done in the console, the system wouldn't have any processing. And then with multiple bands and guest engineers, it's easy to envision a scenario where someone loads a scene and overwrites crossover and other system settings, or starts monkeying around and changes them without realizing what they are doing. Safes will only help if they are used, and will do nothing for after the fact if someone starts making changes. But for the person always mixing on the same console and same rig, different bands or not, there's less of a chance for issues like that happening. EDIT: One other scenario- If the console goes down, and if the system has a dedicated processor, then ANY replacement console can get the show back rolling. Digital or analog. Expensive or cheap... any port in a storm! ;) Besides system processors being fairly bulletproof, if one was to go down, the console itself can provide some redundancy.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio no worries on that front, it's just me, mixing our band through our PA. we're trying to downsize our gear, so i'd rather do it with the filters instead of buying another bit of gear to handle the crossovers. can i say your vids are excellent and were very helpful in getting me up to speed. i recommend them to anyone who has questions about these mixers. thanks again!
Hey Alan, your video's are awesome! Today my XR 18 arrives and it's our first step into the digital world having been using the Yamaha EMX desk previously. I do have a question about speakers and crossovers though. We currently have JBL JRX 212 tops and JBL JRX 215 bottoms - all passive - and all with horns and running in parallel so no defined sub. Are we to rely on the crossovers in the speakers for signal seperation or is there another / better way of doing it? We are currently looking to pair it with an EP4000 which doesnt offer DSP. Apologies if this is a basic question, I'm new to much of this! Thanks!
Edit... Well... I just looked up those speakers... I ASSumed the 215 was a 2x15 sub cab... It's a single 15 and horn... and the 212 is not a 2x12 with a horn. It's a 12 with a horn. And that means they are 8 ohm boxes instead of 4 Ohm with 2 cones in each like I was assuming ;) That's not going to work very well if you want actually sub content with kick. I'd recommend trading either the 212 or the 215 for a pair of actual sub cabs. I typed to much below to correct it all... And it all still applies overall. It's just it doesn't apply to your speakers because you don't actually have subs. But if you get subs, then it all applies. ----------------------------- How many subs and tops are you running? Just one EP4000 or one for tops and one for subs? I think the EP4000 is limited to 2 Ohms per side, but check me on that in case it's actually 4 Ohms. I'm assuming 215 subs are 4 Ohms so a pair of them already would have you at 2 Ohms. So that is one channel taken up with just 2 subs IF you mean just one EP4K. Tops are probably the same. I'm just guessing based on norms, you'll need to check the specs to know for sure. If you have MORE than 2 tops and 2 subs, and my assumption on impedance is correct, then one EP4000 isn't enough amp on impedance ability alone. But, assuming you have 1 EP4000, and 2 subs and 2 tops, and my impedance assumptions are correct... I'd want to get some type of crossover. You could get a DSP unit like a Driverack, or a BSS, etc... I think Behringer still makes one too... Or at least get an analog crossover like a DBX or Ashly, etc... You really only need a 2 way crossover for the setup you're describing. One amp is going to limit you to mono. One channel will be subs, the other tops. So you could only use one side of the crossover and have a normal, mono setup. Or use both sides for aux fed subs, feeding the left with your sub signal from you sub aux output on the XR18, and feeding the right side of the crossover with a mono house feed from either the L or R side of the XR18. One channel of your EP4K would be for subs, and the other for the tops. If you want to go stereo, then you need one more amp no matter what (for subs and tops), and you'd need a 3rd crossover for aux fed subs... or an amp with DSP added into the equation... OR a DSP with at least 3 inputs (one for left, one for right, and one for subs) and at least 3 outputs that can be assigned to L-R and sub). Subs can be mono while tops are stereo. But the one caveat is to make sure and check that the amp can handle 2 Ohms, and that your speakers don't go under that. A pair of 4 Ohm speakers = 2 Ohms. A pair of 8 Ohm speakers = 4 Ohms. It probably wouldn't hurt to make sure the amp power and the speaker ratings match up. Make sure speaker peak and amp output roughly match to be ideal.
Thank you for this useful video. I am using my X18 with a yamaha dxs15 and yamaha dxr12 tops. I thought I understood how subs work, but it turns out that the dxs15 has a low pass filter but not a crossover. I was thinking of replacing it with a lighter RCF 705 as ii, and it appears that the RCF has a crossover? The "thru" jack on the dxs15 is always full range whereas the RCF "thru" jack seems to pass only the frequencies above the crossover setting. Apparently the RCF tops don't have high pass filters whereas the yamaha tops do. So, for now I set my yamaha setup up with 100 Hz on the tops and sub to get my 100 hz crossover. I see you have addressed topic of crossovers some in the video and comments. If I decided to mix subs and tops that aren't compatible as far as crossover settings, how dangerous/bad is it to use the double low-cut + PEQ method for making a digital crossover in the EQ section of XAir? I read about and tried putting in two low cut filters and then slipping in a slight PEQ band peak next to it to get what looks like a pretty nice crossover curve that is fairly steep. Is this a legitimate solution or a bad idea?
Great Video!! I have a quick question for you. I use two EV Evolve 50 speakers for my mains, I would like to add a18" powered sub to my configuration. My question is: As the Evolves have subs, should I set their EQ to 100hz & up, run the sub out of Aux 6 and set the 18" sub to 100hz and down. Not sure of the best way to add a powered sub. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
Are the Evolve 50's EV's stick style speakers? Don't they already have a sub as part of the package? Or is that what you're saying and you plan to get a bigger sub?
Great tutorial, when you say unity between the bus 6 and main fader dose that mean they move together? I can't figure out how to do that. Where do you set gain structure for mains
No, they don't move together. It would be great if they did. I'm just saying, if everything is as it should be, in a perfect world setting, the main fader for the rest of the system, and the fader controlling the subs would be at the same level (and that would be then also unity). But, real world issues and system setup flaws could dictate they don't actually match. Although once set, whether matching or not, if you have to change one, you should likely want to change the other the same matching amount to keep your sub/top balance the same. The best way to have an overall system master on the XR18 when using subs on an aux is to assign a DCA to every channel (if you have a DCA to spare...). You'd still need to set your main fader and your master sub level fader, but once those are set (which as mentioned above is ideally at unity), then you'd use the DCA you assigned all the channels to as your master fader for mixing purposes. Ultimately, this whole issue of not having a true, single master fader for everything isn't really that big of a problem that most people would use a DCA to recreate one because most people set the Master and leave it anyway. So the same is true for the master sub level too. Set it... leave it. And if you do need to move the master up or down 5dB, it isn't a big deal to move the master sub fader up or down those same 5dB either. ...Unless you're doing some kind of system fade as part of the live cues from FOH. In that case, the DCA is a workable solution to getting everything on one 'master' fader.
There is a way to get a steeper low/high-cut for the auxes. As long as you have additional EQ-Bands to spare you can set the gain of the band to -15db and align it with the low-cut. Not perfect but good-enough i think.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio what are the dangers of filter stacking? is it generally ok for a small setup like i use (2 tops and 1 sub). if i could do this i could avoid buying a crossover when i upgrade my sub. the new sub would likely have an 80 hz crossover but my tops only have 100 and 120 hz settings for hpf.
Hey Alan love the videos but I'm still having a problem wrapping my head around this AUX and DCA stuff. My sound guy is away and I have to set up a small system for an outdoor stage in the round (or actually 3/4). There will be two front of stage, one stage right and one stage left and Sub in the middle. Two wedge monitors on stage. My inputs are two microphones, an ipad with Go Button, an XLR in from a DJ setup and BG music source. I want to have individual control of the four speakers and sub so I can adjust volumes as needed but have everything controlled by the overall main volume level. I also need control of overall volume of the monitors on stage (both on one output is fine) So my input strip looks like: Mic1 Mic2 Mic3 Mic4 iPad DJ BGmu...(Mic 3&4 are backups) Can you help me out? Once I get this set and can see it I'm sure I can figure stuff out from here.
I wouldn't think too much about DCAs for that right now. They could probably help with workflow, but if they're confusing you, there's not much need in them if it helps keep things more simple in your mind. So, what I would do... Let's say you put your monitors on bus 1/ Aux out XLR 1 (assuming it's just one mon mix). Pre-Fader bus on the channels. Look for my new video that's coming up later today (Wed) to help explain that part. Then I'd connect your 1st pair of speakers to the L-R's as normal. Then I'd go into console routing, Aux Out, and set up Aux 5 and Aux 6 to be L-R out. This doesn't replace your left right, it just duplicates it. Connect your other pair of speakers to that. Put your Aux fed sub on one of the open busses. (2, 3, or 4). I say do it that way because in my head it seems more logical to have the 1 mon mix coming out Aux out XLR1, then the sub coming out next (XLR out 2, 3, or 4), then the first set of LR outs (5-6), and then the second set of L-R outs (that are still connected to the normal L-R outputs). So, your main outs (now 4 of them) are all together in a row on the console. You could route them any way you wanted to... But there's also this caveat: To link the two Aux outs, odd numbers has to be first. 5 needs to be the first linked output. You can link 5 to 6 but you can't link 4 to 5. Odd-Even, not Even Odd. Anyway... by duplicating the mains out you have 2 sep stereo outs... the normal 'main' out, and a clone main out. But the main fader only controls the normal 'main' out. The Aux 5/6 fader would control the additional pair of mains.
next content suggestion. your take if your using this rack for all channels is the Stereo combinator. Which my understanding is a 5 band compressor. some state it's useful for live sound. 10 controls and some other controls for this and that. meter control which is hidden (left click on the meter selects 3 modes). so many effects in xair apps but only seen on youtube vid on stereo combinator. again consider if you think it's useful. I have it on inserted on my L R mains and admit I don't know enough about all the controls. Many thanks in any event for sharing your wisdom and doing all this work in your utube presentations. I know that the editing is time consuming.
I've not really used the Combinator much. I know it's a multiband comp like the Waves C6, which I use on my SC48, and also use for recording purposes. The gist of it is, if you have a vocalist whose voice goes from warm to harsh as they push things (sing louder), then you can find that harshness range and set it up to comp only that area... and only when the singer hits that harshness range. Higher voices, female voices, can be where this problem really shows itself. So, for example, you'd only comp 2K-4K region (roughly) and not the entire vocal. And on the entire mix, the concept is the same. Maybe the system starts sounding honky or harsh on the peaks. So you set the Combinator with a couple of points to suck that honkiness point, and/or harsh point back, but with the threshold just catching the points when the system peaks. But the rest of the system can sail right on unaffected. You could notch these same frequencies with an EQ, but then they'd be notched all the time. In theory, maybe they are fine most of the time... So the Combinator doesn't do anything to the ranges you set on it, until you get louder (cross the threshold) and those ranges get a bit more 'nasty' than you like. So the Combinator pulls them back, without touching the rest of your frequency balance and dynamic range. The main reason I don't use it on the Behringer stuff is it has to go in the 4 main/first slots due to the DSP it uses. I like having a drum verb, a vocal verb plate, a hall verb (utility verb for various uses), and a delay. So I fill those slots and they are more important to me than the Combinator. I do usually bus my vocals into a subgroup and have one of the Vintage comps on that bus, since the vintage comps will fit into slots 5-8 on the X32. On the XR, I usually don't use subgroups, but if I do use a vocal subgroup, I just use the normal comp there and don't steal from my verbs/delays for that slot. So usually I am comping vocals at the channels a bit, and then comping them in the subgroup more. But with the channels taking some of the peaks away, it lets the bus comp work a little more consistently just to pull vocals together a little more. Kind of a 'glue' thing.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio I do a similar fx setup on our XR18 (5-piece Dead band: 2/3 vocals, 2 gtrs, bass, keys, dms): plate rev slot 1, room rev slot 2, nothing in 3 and combinator in 4. I’m hesitant to put delay in, to muddy it up, but I could easily add it in slot 3. What do you use your delay for in this type of setup, generally! Tx!
@@bmyregaard I almost always have the Stereo Delay in one of the slots. It's usually FX4 on the XR18 or X32, but if I'm using the Combinator or a Vintage Comp, then the Stereo Delay goes to slot 3 on the XR18 and the bus processing goes to FX4. I generally don't do anything too crazy on it... roll off some highs... A bit of HPFing... Match the left and right delay times. Limited repeats (feedback).
Hello Alan recent sub here, loving the content! In your honest opinion is the mr18 worth the extra few bucks over the xr18….? I’ve been toying with the idea of going digital desk again as our band is running out of channels since adding a keyboard player! I’ve two options! Option 1 is to buy a new mr18 for 850€ or option 2 is to buy my brothers couple of years old xr18 and a full set of audix drum mics for 800€ …..! Any info/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
I'd recommend the MR18 if money is no object, but in the real world, in a small club with a small sound system, you're not likely to hear the difference in the XR18 vs the MR18. And if the money saved gets you some nice drum mics, that is actually a place where you'll notice more of a difference. It sounds like the XR18 deal is the one for you. When the MR18 had a 10 year warranty, that changed the dynamic a bit... but now that it's 3 like the XR18, it loses that advantage. If you're in larger venues with really nice (read: expensive) large sound systems capable of high SPLs, a large dynamic range, and a wide frequency response, it's possible you'd notice a difference in the two (although that is debatable once the venue noise is in the equation) but it's also not a case where the CROWD would notice the difference. A good mix is a good mix. Good mix practices are good mix practices (IOW, keeping the system out of clipping, good gain structure practices and EQ practices)... Neither mixer will get in your way of that.
Thank you for the quick and very interesting reply, we only use a set of 2 way 12” dynacord tops with a set of ev 18” scope’s so that rules out the big expensive system part of it ! Have you used audix drum mics before…? What are your opinions on them….?
Even though I’ve got my tops reaching down to 100hz and my subs reaching up to 100hz with the onboard DSP on both speakers. Should I still use hi and low cut filters on both EQ’s for the tops and subs or is that not necessary being I’ve got built in crossovers in both speakers? Thanks!
It's not really necessary. You could always set a LPF on the tops for supersonic stuff. Or set a HPF way below the subs cutoff as a safety. So, if the sub has a filter at 40Hz, you could set one in the console at 20Hz. But if the sub filter was 20Hz, I wouldn't necessarily duplicate that because it would be a steeper rolloff (in the end) than whatever the speaker manufacturer had deemed 'optimal' when they designed the speakers. Which would be true about not duplicating any of the points. Same would apply to the hi-mids... If they have a factory roll off at 100Hz, I wouldn't duplicate that, but I might do a safety rolloff at 50Hz or something. Big ol' caveat... for the LPF on the sub (X-over point), if it's at 100Hz for example... And IF you pump extra lows rather than a flat, neutral system, you MIGHT benefit from a lower crossover point... like 90Hz or 80Hz... to change the point where the overlap occurs (since boosting the subs effectively moves that point higher if you were to look at it visually). But still leaving the tops at 100hz and not doing anything (except maybe that 'safety' setting I mentioned above).
Thanks for sharing! I followed your steps but my issue is…I only want the Kick going to Sub on Bus 6. It IS going there but it’s also going to mains. I don’t want Kick going through mains. Is this possible? Is there a reason I shouldn’t configure it this way? Thanks again 🙏
Let's breakdown the answer into multiple parts. First, if you want the kick only going to the sub, you can unassign the channel from L-R. In X-Air Edit, select the channel, select the channel tab, and at the far right you should see MAIN OUT and a LR button that is highlighted to assign the channel to the L-R out. Or, select the channel, select the MAIN tab, and now that same button is on the left side in the MAIN OUTPUT section. Either place does the same thing. IF you've done that and STILL have sub in the mains, then on Bus 6 in the Main section (right of mixer), if you select the Bus 6 main fader, and then MAIN tab at the top, in the left hand side the Main Output section, Main Stereo LR button should NOT be highlighted. If it is, then it's sending the signal in Bus 6 to the XLR Aux 6 output AND the mains. Ok... but then the 3rd part of this is to ask why you only want kick in the subs? There could be reasons... like you're in a very small venue and everything is loud enough from the stage so that it doesn't need to be in the PA, except maybe you just want to add some missing low end to the kick. Or maybe you're just wanting to send lows to a drum sub monitor that doesn't have its own filter. But thses aren't necessarily typical. A kick has a full frequency response. You of course have the low end and the bass you feel in the kick, but you also have mids and upper mids to even some higher end content for the click of the beater. The attack of the beater. You generally want that as part of the house mix. How much you want to emphasize that (or even de-emphasize that attack) is drummer and genre specific. But it's there. So you don't necessarily want to ignore that part of the kick drum's frequency response, nor the mids, as it's all part of what gives the kick drum some definition and its overall sound. For an example of this, if you haven't seen the kick drum video on the channel, you might check that video out: ua-cam.com/video/CQg1_-ZJ4MU/v-deo.html Or the video micing Kenny Aronoff's kit: ua-cam.com/video/uXGug5smBrQ/v-deo.html
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks for the response. From your description, I was able to identify how to remove the Kick from the Main Output. I also see your point about granting the Kick a full sound response by including in the Mains. Now we wait for the next rehearsal to test the differences between the two. We are playing a small venue next - which is why I wanted to keep Kick limited to sub but that's to be determined. Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.
Hi Alan, I am using a passive sub and my amp does not have a dsp and there is no cross-over gear in my rack. Is setting up a hcut filter my best option on Aux 6? Regards
Hi Alan, thanks for the video again! but my question is we are a small church about 50 ppl..do we even need a subwoofer? and with this aux.6 seems like another control that we have to oversee..is there a way to connect the sub (if we get one and just one not pair) to the mains so just one control?
You can definitely connect a subwoofer without using aux fed sub method. Technically, if you add a sub, you'll need someway to crossover the frequencies from the sub to the tops. The sub, if powered, might even have this built in. As for whether you need a sub or not... this is harder to answer. If you only use your PA for speech, then no, you don't need a sub. If you just use your PA for speech and background music like an acoustic guitar or piano, then it's still probably a 'no'. But if you do live music with drums and bass guitar, or tracks with drums and bass, and synth...etc... and you want it to sound really full and powerful, then it's more likely a subwoofer (or two) would be helpful. Being a smaller space, a lot depends on the size of the existing speakers (are they capable of low end at all?), and what you're asking of and expect of the system.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thank you so much Alan. Yes we are full band and will i guess need a subwoofer at least one. I was watching another video where the it uses one of the mains on to connect to sub then from the sub it connects both the loud speaker...is this correct?
You may have covered this in a separate video but if we have turbosound mains and subs would it be beneficial to run them using Ultranet as opposed to XLR cables? Seems to me like limiting the D to A conversions in the chain would be beneficial. I guess that's another video suggestion for you as well! Thanks
I haven't done much on Ultranet just because the only Ultranet speakers I have (a couple of little 8" Turbos) don't gain me much to use Ultranet the way I normally deploy the speakers. They are sometimes talking head speakers, sometimes program monitor speakers, and during the pandemic they've been studio mons... But you are correct I'd think in that Ultranet would be the better way to go in the circumstance you describe. I don't know that you'd notice much difference though in a real world application like that so it would be more about whether using Cat5e (and the Ultranet connection was any easier) or whether the cable paths make a more robust XRL cable more practical. On the X32 you get some speaker control with the Ultranet... so that's a plus if you need it. I don't know if the XR18 gives you that or not. I assume it would... I've just never checked.
Instead of taking Aux 6 sub from the aux 6 of each channel, could you take it post fader of the mains so they would automatically track together and not have to move those faders individually? Of course you could not remove certain channels from the sub mix- but simpler might be better. Also when using the PEQ as a xover, can the filter "quality" be increased beyond 2 for a steeper curve?
There's no real way to do that as far as tying sub out and main out... There's no 'post fader' of the main option... EXCEPT... Since the aux fed sub feed on each channel should normally be post fader anyway, you can assign EVERY channel (including FX returns) to a single DCA (call it MAIN DCA). Once you have your initial sub/main balance correct, then use that "MAIN DCA" to control overall volume. This essentially does what you were hoping to do with your idea, but your idea doesn't have a way to actually implement it on the console. I'm sure layering filters will increase the sharpness of the overall filter effect, but I'm a big believer in handling speaker processing (at least as far as crossover functions) to external hardware. External hardware is almost never touched. The console is constantly getting tweaked, changes made, mistakes made, multiple operators, scenes loaded, etc... and eventually someone is going to overwrite or reset the EQ or reset the entire console (intentionally or not) and there goes your system crossover points. And you might not know it until it's too late.
Quick question: I've set my subs up like described, but when I mute my mains, the subs keep going until I go into the subgroup and mute them there, which is weird. How can I solve this? Can't wrap my head around it somehow...TIA
The subs are no longer tied to the mains when they are aux fed. The simple way to have a 'main' that controls everything is to assign every channel to a DCA (or iDCA is an option in Mixing Station app as well). Once you have your relative sub/main balance set as normal, use the DCA as the Main. Or just setup a mute group that mutes every channel and use the mute group... Or just remember that the sub aux and mains are not tied together so know that you have to mute the main AND the sub aux when you want to kill the house but maybe want the channels still unmuted for monitor reasons.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it. Your videos are great and helped me a lot when I got my XR16 a couple of weeks ago. I will check the DCA solution.
Another Aussie here and love your channel, very helpful, thanks Alan! Anyway, I bought some 18" passive subs, amp to run them and a crossover to complement our powered mixer with tops of single 15" with horn each for L/R. Things were working out fine until yesterday when our last few songs of the gig blew the tops and all the magic smoke escaped :) On inspection, the woofer coils are gone on both tops (horns test at 6ohms each) and the built in crossover cap and 25watt resister that feeds the woofer are well and truly fried in each top as well! My question is - and it may be a warning/helpful for others - should I have just used the crossover to feed the sub's amp only and sent the full signal to powered mixer to run the tops? I'm thinking the thinner mix overran the woofer's with high end (or not enough low) and fried the coils?? It's a budget setup I know and I'm building it as I can, without the subs our sound was very thin, especially outdoors but the subs have helped heaps. I'm thinking to run the signal from the XR18 to the powered mixer then send it from the outs to the crossover to filter for the subs(?) This should let the full range top speakers work as normal and just boost the bass with the subs, what do you think? Thanks again for your great channel and advice, cheers.
It sounds like you were really clipping the tops pretty hard for that level of 'destructive chaos'. Does the top amp not have a HPF you can engage? Was it engaged? I definitely would've engaged a HPF somewhere for the tops. Technically, you could've been clipping anywhere and the square wave and constant signal would've done damage. But realistically, it was probably clipping the amp... if not "amp too". The XR18 could let you filter the signal that goes to the tops. I'd definitely do that, because low frequency energy eats up amplifier headroom... and preamp headroom... on and on. The more you can reduce that from needless places, the more headroom you can buy yourself. Clipping = heat. Heat = burned components. And that is when the magic smoke is released! ;)
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks Alan, yeah, the amp output signal was in the orange a bit but not clipping proper. I think I worked it out after checking the rig setup again and I've had time to think, just asking you the question helped :) First, I think I was running a bit hot from the crossover, should've checked that I didn't move any of my standard settings in setup (which I did...doh! Lesson learned). It wasn't running that hot before so I was a bit confused but was too busy drumming to deal with it :) Second, the powered amp was running at around 4-5. Since adding the subs we've gained more dB and it was a quieter venue so I turned it down from the usual 7-8 volume setting. So I think that along with the hot signal I was running the tops a bit lean on power and that slowly cooked the system and voice coils. I now fully understand the need to run your amps as high as possible (to suit speakers of course ;) ) cheers.
Alan, I have older passive JBL speakers and I plan to use one or both as subs. I just acquired a Crown XLS1000 but cant find any instruction or best practice specific to setting it up to provide either one channel or both (bridge mode) to send low frequencies. What would you recommend I do. BTW, I'm a novice ;-)
I don't think I've used the XLS so I had to find the manual. www.crownaudio.com/en/product_documents/142169-1_xls3_multilingualmanual_041210-pdf The XLS doesn't have a lot of power, so for subs I'd definitely bridge it. But make sure you don't connect more than a 4 Ohm load to it. The manual has info in the "Getting Started" section. Then I'd use the Bridge mode with a LPF and select a crossover point there. Without knowing your system it's hard to know what to pick, but if your tops have a 100Hz HPF, then set the Crown XLS at 100Hz for the LPF. It could be, if you like bumping your subs a bit, that you'll 'like' a 10Hz or so gap... So maybe the subs are at 90Hz and the tops 100Hz. Or Subs at 100Hz and tops at 110Hz. The concept here being that if everything was completely flat then the overlap point of the sub to the tops would be at one select point. But if you raise the level of the subs, you're moving that point higher. Lowering the frequency of the crossover would naturally lower that point of overlap back to where it would've been had the subs not been boosted. So it's not really a 'hole' in the frequency response. Just a trick to keep things from getting thick at that crossover point if the subs are ran hot. ...If that makes sense.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thank you. I realize I gave you a very specific question without a lot of info to go on. Currently, my XR18 is only used in my studio for rehearsal and recording demos. The Main L/R are connected to Alto TS120A powered speakers. I just bought the Crown amp from an estate sale. The passive JBL speaker is in a homemade cabinet. Using what I have the plan is to connect one of the JBL cabs to the Crown fed via the AUX bus using the Crown amp in Crossover Mode 'When using the “Crossover Mode”, the amplifier is configured to use a LowPass Filter on Channel 1 and a HighPass Filter on Channel 2 but only using channel 1. I think this will be a better option so I don't overdrive the JBLs. I'll have to double check the model and the Ohms but I think they are 4 ohm. Thanks again.
Can someone explain how I would properly connect the EVOX J8. The speakers normally connect to powered subs. From my understanding I would connect the speakers to L+R. Use 1 Output from the mixer to the subwoofer and the out of that subwoofer to the next subwoofer? Can someone guide me how I would do the connection for the EVOX J8. Crossover is 220 HZ on subwoofer. Thanks
I'm not really familiar with the speakers, and it depends on how the speakers are made. I assume they are made to function as a package and so it's possible you don't even have access to the amp for the tops and that it is all done from within the sub enclosure (amps/crossover network).
This is the best explanation for running subs on aux out there. I'm still curious what advantage this has over simply running the subs off of a daisy chain XLR pass through from a main speaker and using the built in crossovers on the speakers themselves. Is there any?
If I follow your question, the difference would be... let's use a vocal mic for the discussion... Your vocalist's lower range is maybe 120Hz (changes with the singer but we need a number for the example ;) ). You set the HPF on the channel to 100Hz being conservative. First, that 100Hz is not a dead drop off. Frequencies will drop at a fixed slope rate. Meanwhile, the vocals aren't the only thing in that vocal mix. It's picking up bass guitar, kick drum, and wash from the monitors (if the band is not on IEMS), and wash from the PA. Even room noise. Now, the fact it has that HPF engaged means it will roll off that low end the mic is picking up, but it won't be a hard cut off. It's just sloping it away. So, with a standard setup, anything that is picked up by the vocal mic, will get to the PA. And anything, even below the 100Hz HPF on the vocal mic, will still get to the PA (based on the rolloff amount of the HPF... and to the subs. Since 100Hz is not a hard cut off, then to varying degrees, that stage wash is still getting to the subs, matching the roll off of the HPF (low cut). But with Aux fed subs, if you don't turn an aux (bus) up on a channel, then nothing from that channel is getting to the subs. So for our vocal example, with aux fed subs in the equation, we'd only be sending to the mid hi's because that's what is connected to our L-R outs. If we don't bring the aux up on the subs on that vocal channel, then there's no path from that vocal mic for stage wash of any frequency to get sent to the subs. There's plenty debate about whether it's ultimately worth it... especially these days with time alignment... better designed and more efficient systems... variable HPF's on desks... utilizing the IEMs instead of loud stage mons... And if utilizing it, maintaining proper balance with the low end in instruments (though, sometimes the goal is to NOT maintain proper balance with the low end of some instruments.. which aux fed subs definitely makes that possible). Far and away, the most popular configuration remains some form of subs on an aux. Many times the amplifier system is always configured that way, and traveling engineers will hand you 4 lines... Left, Right, Sub, Fill. Even if they are NOT using aux fed subs from their touring console. They can feed their L-R bus to a stereo matrix, where they also have a 3rd matrix taking a a clone of that L-R signal... This 3rd matrix feeds the subs. And so that separate sub line is getting a normal mix sent to it and the system. They do this so that system providers can setup the rig for aux fed subs, because that is a popular requirement, but for the engineers that don't want aux fed subs, this gets them connected in a way that mimics a normal (non-aux fed subs system). Otherwise, system providers would have to reconfigure the system for traveling engineers and desks. And if you're talking festivals and multiple bands, then that gets even more complicated. Rewinding a bit, some people use the "M" output on the X32 and M32 as their sub feed. Anything they want going to a sub, they engaged that center output on the channel strip, and use the channel level control for it to feed the sub. Same concept as aux fed subs... just another route to get there.
I have a DDJ-800 running 2 xlr's to channel 15-16. Inside these, in the sends, I am seeing my aux fed subs, which are 5-6. 52's, and 18's(subs) SImple eq seems to do the trick when routing this way, but I seem to be hearing a little bleed of high end on the subs. Do you have a fix to this? Or is this inevitable? I have a hpf and lpf on bus 5-6. Should that be the only eq section I concern myself with? It's odd. I might figure it out, but it would be great if you had a quickfix or solution. TY~!
The HPF and LPF isn't very steep as compared to what a real crossover filter would be doing. You can stack filters to better mimic what a real crossover would do, but you can only do so much on the XR18. The X32/M32 does have crossover filters available... Although I always recommend an external crossover/DSP to handle system processing like this. Or an amp with built-in processing (or powered speakers with built in processing). You just have so much more control that way, and since the boxes don't ever get changed once set, it mitigates the chances of mistakes happening with a console reset, loading a new scene, or something similar. Other than the low cut and high cut filters not being very steep, I can't think of a reason you'd hear high end bleed in the subs. And even with that, how high are you talking about?
I figured it out! I just kept coming back to this video day to day. It took a bit to absorb what was being said and why. Mostly just over equing and not adjusting the volume of the sends properly. Appreciate the response more than you know man! Your videos have saved me from a lot of trial and error that bites into time. With a base of what does what and why, it's been a lot easier to figure out when tinkering. THANK YOU! @@AlanHamiltonAudio
The 52's were passive, they were bridged at the pa, along with only 1 xlr going out from that pa. I adjusted the crossover settings via manual, and the subs were much easier to control. In the end, I discarded the 52's for my dj performances, due to already having (4) 18in powered subs. They do more than enough for the venue I'm in, and the control is now simplistic, down to one bus channel instead of two. Less is definitely more when it comes to bass. They sound great now, can't even tell subs are there. Basically feels as thought the bass is coming from the mains. Very clean. Can't thank you enough for your tutorials!
Can you Help me how setting this XR18. I just have it, and i use for onsite and online sound system. How can i setting the volume, eq, gate, or anything in online setting ( use USB soundcard for zoom) without give the affect to onsite setting...??
Another question: I am trying to get the kickdrum only out via the subs. Is there a way to route this? I somehow don't manage to take the signal out of the mains...TIA again
That is simple enough... Just unassign that channel from the L-R out on the channel. But why would you want the kick only going to the subs? There's plenty of other frequency content in a kick that is above the subwoofer range. ...Unless you're just going for some song specific effect, normally the kick would go to subs AND tops.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks for the reply again. We are a 4 piece band in small room with loud instruments. The drums are not mic'ed to go through our PA system, only the vocals are. Bass and guitar simply come from the amps and drums are plenty loud. So I don't use the subs for anything as they are not needed and only routed the 3 vocals to come out of the tops. Therefore I thought to have only the kickdrum come through the subs to give it a little more low end, as it is a small kickdrum. It might be a stupid idea though and muddy up the whole mix, but I will simply try it.
@@sanchopansen4431 I kinda wondered if that might be what you were doing. That's not necessarily a bad idea, especially for the kick that you might want to emphasize the lows a bit more than the natural volume of the kick allows.
Assuming the system is balanced correctly (lows/mids/highs) then the Main L-R fader and the bus 6 main fader should match. That way, anything you want in the subs, if you put it at unity on the channel, should sound perfectly balanced in the PA. To really get a feel for it, assuming you don't have any measurement tools, use your WAV/MP3/CD Player with the sub set at unity on a channel (or channels for stereo)... And listen to the system balance first. If you notice that makes the subs too hot, or they're not hot enough... adjust at the amps/speakers. Whether you'd want to cut the level of the tops if you need more subs, in balance, or just raise the subs would depend on how hard you're already driving them. Just balance things and keep them out of heavy clipping. A workaround for essentially needing two master faders (on the X-Air stuff)... a sub and a main L/R... is once you have the balance at the amp/speakers/processor within a good window and sounding good and the mixer Main LR and sub fader is at unity- Assign EVERY channel to an unused DCA. Since your channel sends for your sub should be post-fader typically, that means that this DCA becomes your defacto main for everything. So one master fader. Of course it's not that big of deal to just adjust the 2 faders if you need that DCA for something else... but it is a way to have a single master control on the X-Air stuff.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio I love your channel, I believe I’ve watched most of your videos multiple times in my opinion you explain everything better than anyone else I’ve seen yet! Thanks for all you do. Keep up the good work!!!
I know my way around the Mixing Station app well enough to do all of this easily enough. It's pretty similar in overall layout, just more pages and a smaller screen as compared to the X-Air Edit program. The iPad app, I never really use... I don't have an iPad. I know it can do it, but without it in front of me I don't know the GUI and the pages well enough to explain it.
I don't have one to video, but let me take a look at one online and see if I can at least give you some pointers or info in the comments in a day or two.
@@tatangmo7853 Ok, you might be in a "can't get there from here scenario". The EFX only has 2 auxes. One is for the built in FX and one is theoretically available, but I imagine the odds are good you're using it for monitors. Technically, the FX bus output could serve as an aux sub feed IF you aren't using the built in FX. It's already post fader so you'd just need to connect it like mentioned in the video in part 2 (since beyond part 1, part 2 and 3 are both cross platform chapters mainly). The FX bus feed on each channel would then become your sub feed. Assuming you're already using the FX... then IF the other aux is available and not being used for monitors, then in the master section of the board there is a PRE/POST button. Set that in the POST position. Now, connect your sub or sub amp/crossover to the Aux output on the console, and then refer to this video in chapters 2 and 3. But, I'm kind of assuming, you're using monitors in that aux. So if you're using both the FX bus (which is just a post fader aux) and the 'spare' aux, then you're almost in 'can't get there from here territory'. There IS one other option that is a bit convoluted but I'll try and explain it. First, you'd need to run your PA in mono. Pan everything to the right and connect your powered tops (or you amp/x-over for the tops) to the right side of the board. Now, connect the left (left for 'low' to make this easy to remember) to your powered subs or amp/crossover. For any channels you want to send to the subs, slowly pan those channels to the left (but never hard left). Somewhere between a pan control at 3 O'clock and noon should be about where it'll end up for your low end channels (kick, deep toms, bass guitar, keys... tracks...). If you pan it hard left, nothing would get to your tops from that channel. It would all go to the subs. The idea is for none of the vocals to go to the subs, but things like bass guitar and kick drum, instruments that NEED that low frequency extension, would get the top end normally, and by panning toward the center from the right, you'd be adding in/sending lows from those instruments to the subs too. In any of these cases, the info from chapter 2 and 3 of the video basically would apply the same.
I configured mine for this and now if the subs fader is down my mid low doesn’t come out of my full range tops! I turn the sub fader up then I get Low- mids in my tops. There not linked in anyway except for the mixer. Main EAWs go to a crown And aux 6 feeds my EV powered 18s. Frustrating
Following up on my assumption as to what is wrong (sub aux is assigned the LR), this FAQ video talks about this (though it's usually happening with monitors... but it's the same issue and answer either way). Check out the section on why are my mons coming up in FOH: ua-cam.com/video/x9wciA2wFd0/v-deo.html
I'd use a crossover dedicated to subs. Either built into powered subs, a separate rackmount unit, or a full-fledged, multi-input DSP that has enough inputs that you can do 1 input for subs, and another for your tops... Which would generally be Left and Right... So 3 total inputs at minimum for that. But, for mono, you could do that with two inputs... Make the left side a sub input on your crossover/DSP and make the right side the input for your tops. That assumes your crossover is more than 2 way, or that your tops are ran passive.
Great video but man this is super confusing and hell of a learning curve I think ima keep using my analog mixing board it’s just super simple for me I hate complicated stuff I’m a simp lol!
There are several videos on the channel that target IEM setups. This one is a walkthru showing how to build a dedicated IEM rig with the XR18 featured. ua-cam.com/video/xT9gTBFxvZk/v-deo.html This one is more about the mixer settings when using the console as a dedicated monitor console: ua-cam.com/video/Zf83kolgVzk/v-deo.html Even though those are talking about using it as a dedicated monitor console, there are things to be gleaned even when using it for FOH and Monitors. This is a new video that shows how to connect IEMs to any console and talks about various tips. While not specific to the XR18, it's a good video to get more of an understanding about connections, etc... ua-cam.com/video/XLCqQ3rF5Sg/v-deo.html This one is an 'Explainer' video that tries to target mistakes some users make in tap points for things like monitors: ua-cam.com/video/CAO56X-uxWk/v-deo.html This one is a general overview of the output routing. ua-cam.com/video/CAO56X-uxWk/v-deo.html There are also a couple of video talking directly about the channel inputs... and about the mixer outputs. Essentially, walk-thrus. Not specific to IEMs or monitors, but likely contain some answers about signal flow that help you understand the bigger picture: ua-cam.com/video/UNO-dACc7YY/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/xPsSPK6RKzU/v-deo.html There are some other vids that might interest you about the XR18 or IEMs in general so check the channel library for ones beyond these links.
Happy New Year, Alan! I have 2 sub. Should we setup stereo sub for better sound or mono sub setting will give us the same sound quality? For now, think stereo setting will give us more dynamic sound which will be better. AmIright?
In almost all cases these days, when subs are driven by their own feed, they are ran mono. In fact, many times systems are configured for stereo but even when the engineer is not using aux fed subs, the subs are fed from a mono matrix, so they are still mono regardless of any panning on the channels. So, I wouldn't worry about setting up two outs for stereo subs. There's nothing really to be gained by it except to complicate the setup a bit and use a bus that you might want to save as a spare or use for a record feed or something.
Because the channel is (likely) also feeding other sources besides just the house. If monitors are from FOH then it's feeding monitors. If there's a stream mix from FOH, then it's feeding the stream... or a record mix... broadcast mix... etc... It's also a good practice because even though in a specific case the mix might be only feeding the house, in the future that might not always be the case. You also want to be able to call up you program monitor or headphones and hear an accurate representation of your mix and what you want your mix to be. Not using the HPF when it's called for could be building bad habits.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio I thought this was dedicated to a sub and a sub alone? Main Left and right would feed well, main left and right tops at FOH and sub group six would be a mono send to feed only the powered FOH subs. I would I understand putting a HPF on the sub group
@@JettyDeke I thought you were talking about why you'd use a HPF on any input channel if that channel was not being sent to the sub (so low end would be gone from that channel in the mains anyway).
@@AlanHamiltonAudio yeah in your video on the sub group feeding the dedicated sub you put a HFP/Low Cut on the subgroup 6 that is feeding the sub. It was just confusing. I understand the notch you were talking about in case it was feeding back
Longer video than normal. A lot of info to cover and it didn't make sense to cover not only how to setup the XR18, but also touch on the speaker/amp system and tips and pitfalls for mixing with the subs on an aux. I broke those parts down into their own chapters so people could skip parts they might already know... or click back to go over a chapter again.
Let me know any questions.
This was a viewer suggested topic. I'm always open to suggestions. Just leave me a comment :)
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ua-cam.com/play/PLWtgwSNlxTjOt3tyG7cYXrmSleKXHlepj.html
Behringer X32 / Midas M32 Tutorials:
ua-cam.com/play/PLWtgwSNlxTjPJCmx6FF1igBWd30PxLbCG.html
Alan's Live and Studio Sound Production Tech Tips and Info:
ua-cam.com/play/PLWtgwSNlxTjNBv778YnTynwfidc6oWqc9.html
Great video and great starting point for anyone using an xr18 or AIR. I would just like to mention that you can obtain a 24db low/high frequency cut by stacking the Q filters. Start by setting both filter 1 and 2 at the same frequency and set them both to Lcut. Qual size has no affect and can be ignored. Applied to the Sub AUX Lcut (40Hz) and Hcut (100Hz) and Main L-R with Lcut (100hz), would functionally have a simple cross-over (minus time delay and phasing).
It has been 4 months since I submitted a comment Alan. I'm getting a really good handle on the XR18 now. YOU have been instrumental in my grasping of the basic concepts and I still refer to your videos to learn more and more. Thanks so much!
Good info. Using mains to power amp and 12" PA speakers. I wound up for my home studio using the headphones out and ran both inputs to my center powered sub. The sub already filters high frequencies, win-win easy-peasy. I did this because I also have outboard crossover if I use larger PA system. BTW, you get more input signal using both lines of the stereo signal into the sub. You can get away with a mono 1/4".
Thank you for these XR18 videos, I was completely confused by this mixer. I only use it as an interface for recording and mixing
Thank you for watching!
Same here. This guy helped me realize the flexibility of the XR18. I hated it before I really began to understand what it’s capable of. I managed to route headphone mixed from bus sends in my daw to USB returns. So much more professional and totally changes my workflow.
Thank you for not talking jibberish for 5 min before starting... very concise explainations and thank you for that as well.
Thank you!
0:00 Intro
0:20 Setting Up The XR18 For Aux Fed Subs
6:12 Setting Up The Speakers/Amps For Aux Fed Subs
11:46 Tips And Advice For Mixing On Aux Fed Subs
Thanks so much for all the great videos and clear, detailed information! I'm relatively new to my Midas MR18 and your channel is the best at simply explaining concepts and use!!
Thanks!!
As an Australian, I just want to say that I love listening to your accent. The info on the XR18 is just a nice side benefit 😅
LOL! I've got no comeback at all! :D
@@AlanHamiltonAudio ahahaha 😂 seriously though mate, these vids have been an incredible source of info, I'm giving my XR18 it's second run this weekend and am gonna give the aux fed Seb method a try. Thanks for sharing your knowledge ✌️
@@bennyv9897 Glad they can help! Good luck with the setup this weekend!
Thank you so very much for your awesome tutorials. My Band has two Behringer XR18 / X Air, one for use, one for backups. This helps tremendously! Kind regards,
Thanks!
Great video when I bought it there was no videos showing a lot of info the company just through out only the basics thanks for your input really nice explanation
Thanks! I'm planning to keep churning these type of videos out ...for the XR18, the X32, and general live audio production videos... with a smattering of recording mixed in.
This has been the most helpful channel for mixing with this mixer.
I picked up the XR18 in 2018 on a recommendation from a cousin that plays bass and runs the monitor mix in a country band.
Ive been using this mixer to run sound/monitors for my band and others along with DJ gigs for weddings.
I have 4 powered tops ( harbinger V212s no dsp features) and run 2 on each side for stereo.
My subs are 2 Fender 115SA passive subs powered by a QSC 1310 USA power amp in bridged mono.
Ive always done the low pass fillter
On aux 6 and the high pass on the mains to act as the "crossover"
I want to get one of those rack mount crossover units that let you do the mids/highs in stereo and run mono subs. I am totaly ok with getting a crossover thats analog and doesnt have all the digital interfacing stuff on it but i am confused/intimidated by terms like 2 way stereo/ 3 way mono and another one that shows 3 way stereo/ 4 way mono. Is there a guide out there for making sense of this and how to get that kind of setup running?
Oh wow this so well done. This is going to help so many people working with subs. I once had a power sub available to me for a music festival with my xr18 but then did not know how to wire in and configure. Thank you 🙏. There is a face book xr18 group and I would like to start sharing your videos if this has not already been done. Many thanks Alan.
Thanks! Definitely share any of these videos wherever you want! :)
Such great info. Your videos have helped my workflow tremendously with this mixer.
Thank you!! Glad the videos have helped.
Solid info. Believe it or not, ChatGPT sent me here when researching something I was wanting to do with x air. Thanks!
Awesome! Thank you!
I'm a new subscriber. Thank you so much for your very helpful videos. I'm learning how to operate our new XR18 from this channel. It's great!
Thanks! Glad they are helping!
Once again you’ve enlightened me. I thought I knew my X Air 18 well! Thank you
Thanks. Glad it's helped!
Your vids have helped me out immensely Alan! Thank you for all your time you are putting into them! I'm an old "analog" sound guy and getting this XR18 has really "lightened" the load so to speak! I have an issue with my XR18 in that I get nothing out of my headphones to monitor with them. Not sure if I need to send my unit in for repairs or if I just haven't found the "button" to engage them! I know my headphones are good, as I can plug them into my Soundcraft mixer, and they work flawlessly, but not out of the Behringer!
Have you changed the default routing/setup in the console? In X-Air Edit... Click In/Out (routing) on upper right then tab over to MAIN OUT and you should see a graph with PHONES on the left side... that there should be a circle in the block for "Monitor". That is the default setup too.
Then the other place to check is SETUP.... and tab over to MONITOR. Monitor source should be LR AFL in the drop down.
Channel solo is normally PFL. Bus solo also normally PFL.
Monitor level is normally 0.0 (which is unity... but it can be turned up or down so if yours got turned down to off that would kill the headphones)... And there's a source trim that also should be a unity (0.0). I think all of that is the default settings.
Of course, there's also the headphone level control on the front of the XR... Which should be up... but could possibly be bad...?
Perfect info with all the important details step by step. Thanks Alan 😎👌
Thanks. It was definitely a lot of info to cover! :)
Awesome, thanks so much. Our band has an XR16 and this is going to be really helpful for our subwoofer.
Glad to help! Thanks for watching and commenting. Let me know if any questions come up.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks, right now we just have a few band members who are frustrated with the IEM mix. I'm thinking of changing their IEM bus from "pre-fader" to "post fader" just to give them the front of house mix in their ears, this will take the control away from them, but may just be a simple solution to giving them a mix they don't have to dial in. Any thoughts on this?
Mon Setup Video:
ua-cam.com/video/5gzsEErKdb8/v-deo.html
As long as you understand what you're doing when you do that change, then you'll know what to watch out for to see if your idea can work for them.
The pitfall will probably be vocalist(s), or at least the more likely pitfall.
Are you mixing from the stage or do you have someone out front? If there's someone out front it puts another variable into your plan. If it's just the band mixing from stage, then you know exactly what is going on. And besides that, probably aren't changing things much at all during the night.
So that could help.
Plus, you can still give the vocalists more or less via the channel send, even if it is post fader. It's just going to track up/down with the fader from that point you set.
And beyond that, if the fader changes are bothering the singer(s), then you can just switch off the global send changes and set the vocal channel aux sends to be pre fader (or any point pre-fader you want), while leaving the other channels post fader.
"To break the rules, first you need to know the rules". So you know the reasoning in pre-fader auxes for mons... and if you have a theory to try, if it works for you in specific case, then it works for you. And if it doesn't, you'll probably be able to recognize the symptoms and fix it, or try something else.
I have the XR 16, this is so helpful, thanks!
Very cool! Glad it helped! :)
This is exactly what I was looking for thanks for the information…
Thanks! Glad to help!
I've been trying for the longest time to figure out how to sync the Main LR level with the sub Aux level and this answered it, it can't. At least I know now that I wasn't going crazy for no reason.
There's no direct way... but there is a bit of a workaround if you're comfortable working with DCAs. If you have a spare DCA you can assign EVERYTHING to that DCA (every channel and every FX return (not any of the master aux feeds though)). So once you have you main out and sub out level set and balanced, use the DCA from then on as your master. Since the aux sub is a post fader send on the channels you're sending to the sub feed, that DCA will work exactly like an overall master level control for the mixer that INCLUDES the sub's feed.
I would add a word about the importance of removing "low end mud" on every channel (HPF) AND also using the Aux On Sub to punch up individual low end elements on a channel by channel basis too.
Removing crud from channels feeds monitors and reverbs with a cleaner signal for a better mix overall.
Been a while, but I thought I mentioned the importance of using a HPF even when using aux feds just for that reason... It might've been in context of a 'warning' about aux fed subs 'fooling' the tech by removing unneeded lows in the house, but would still be in any recording feeds, streams, fills, mons from FOH, etc... and then the warning not to use aux fed subs to 'replace' the HPF. As you said, you still need both.
Good work Alan!
Thanks!!
you can use two lcut filters on an xr12/16/18 to match the steep slope of a lr24 filter on an x32, in fact when you do that on the x32 it disables one of the other filters in the eq because internally that's what it is doing
that said, i don't want to use the xr18 as a dsp, it feels like that'd be a nightmare to manage as you said, i just don't have a good alternative yet since the xr18/x32 support linux and no dedicated dsp does.
ok, i think i have a plan, i've only got 3 stage monitors so that leaves 3 aux sends available.
i'm going to use two of them for my mains along with the last one for my sub, with the lcut and hcut doubled up for suitable crossover roll off, and to achieve a single volume control i'll assign each of the three busses to a dca group.
this will let me monitor the full mix for streaming/recording and also allow complete control over the subs and tops without costing me an extra $1k for an x32 or a loudspeaker management system, which is money i'd rather spend elsewhere on what is essentially a hobby right now.
thoughts on this?
Great video, but now I'm bummed. I have an x32 and have it set up for aux subs using the center channel linked to the mains. I also have an mr18 that I was forced to use last minute at a show without a crossover available. I set up aux 6 to use and was looking everywhere for the option to link to mains. Couldn't find it and spent the night fussing about with things. Now I know why I couldn't find out how to link them lol. Seems like a no brainer to include that feature on the mr18. Hope they change it soon! Anyways, watched a few of your vids now so I subbed today. Thanks for all the tips! Cheers
One thing you can do, if you have an available DCA, is assign everything to a DCA and call it "Main DCA" (or whatever). Set it at unity to start. Once you then have you main out and sub level balance set as you want (just like normal), since the sub is on a post fader aux, that DCA will now work as a main level for everything.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio I haven't worked with DCA's much as I mainly do smaller shows where I'm working a single stage with a stack on each side. It's old school lol. I will definitely get familiar with the approach you laid out in your reply. I still wish the mr18 had the center channel feature though. Thanks for the tip, I'll try it for sure!
Thank you for this. I set up the way you outlined on my XR18 and love it. How do ya link the Main L/R and Aux faders...?
They don't give users a way on the XR18, but what you can do is assign EVERY channel to a single DCA and name it MAIN DCA (or whatever you want to call it). That includes the FX RETURNS and 17-18 Aux In stereo channel. You still have to initially set the Main L-R and Sub faders to get your initial balance, but once they are set then you can just use your MAIN DCA that you created to control the mixer volume on one fader from that point. You can leave the Sub and Main L-R alone at that point.
The key is that your sub aux on the channels has to be set to POST fader... but it should be anyway.
there's another way round it if you use mixing station and are creating a custom layout. you can create an iDCA and place it in the mix layer. if you assign the main fader and the aux 6 fader to it, the iDCA will control both at the same time.
Thank you for these videos! I am a DJ and karaoke host. I have 2 Bose L1 Model II speaker towers with bass modules. I wondered how I could best add an 18" EV sub that I have (for parties and weddings). I have used aux 6 for the sub and set the sub's low pass at 100Hz on the EV speaker. Not sure I loved what I heard but it was ok. I did match the faders (LR and aux) or at least come close. I only routed the music to the sub (no vocal mics to sub). But I did nothing for EQ on the Bose towers as there is no setting I can find to adjust directly on the speakers. So basically I have backing music feeding LR & the sub aux. And vocals only feeding the LR (no monitor as the Bose is setup to be the monitor too).
Very nice! Regards from Mexico!
Thank you!
Thank you for all the valuable information. I’m a music teacher and recently started using the XR18 for my student bands.
I am using JBL EON 615 as my main speakers and I also have two subwoofers (JBL EON618).
Should I connect my subwoofers using the aux, as explained in this video, or should I connect the two subs to the main speakers? Apparently the eon 615 have a crossover system integrated. Thanks for your help
Unless you need to wrangle the last dB out of the system, I'd keep it simple and just utilize speakers and their own crossover network. As long as you aren't trying to milk the last dB out of the system, you should be fine that way. Plus, if it's a case where the kids will be using the system, that's even more of a reason to keep it simple.
Thank you!
What would be the proper order?
XR18 > EON 615 > EON 618 Subs
or
XR18> EON 618 Subs > EON 615 ?
Or does it really matter ? Thank you so much again for everything. Your videos are really helpful
@@miramontemusic I've not used those but I think ("think" ;) ) that they just have signal pass thru jacks and a preset for sub. So I don't think it matters which cab you hit with the XLR first. But do make sure you set them for the 'sub' preset.
If you noticed on the X32 Low1 when you select LR24 (Linkwitz-Riley @ 24dB slope), it disables the Low2 ?? You can also stack two low cuts on XR18 to double that slope to 24 as well. I haven't done a phase alignment check to see if it matches LR24 but I suspect it does as a single cut (low or high) is 12dB. I've stacked two low cuts and two high cuts on a XR18 Aux output to get a controlled band pass filter before and it works. I probably should install REW and check the phase to verify.
you pointed out that the 12db per octave low and high pass filters aren't great for creating a crossover because they are too shallow, but what if you use two 12db filters at the same frequency? that creates a 24db filter, like the one you use as an example at 11:36. is doing this a viable option?
Yes, definitely a viable option. I didn't want to get too far into the weeds and figured anyone who understood about concepts like that would be able to apply it.
I'm not the biggest proponent of doing crossover functions within a console versus a dedicated processor... but that is because I'm in situations with guest engineers, multiple bands, different consoles, etc... In fact, some shows are racks and stacks so my consoles aren't even onsite. So if processing was done in the console, the system wouldn't have any processing. And then with multiple bands and guest engineers, it's easy to envision a scenario where someone loads a scene and overwrites crossover and other system settings, or starts monkeying around and changes them without realizing what they are doing. Safes will only help if they are used, and will do nothing for after the fact if someone starts making changes.
But for the person always mixing on the same console and same rig, different bands or not, there's less of a chance for issues like that happening.
EDIT: One other scenario- If the console goes down, and if the system has a dedicated processor, then ANY replacement console can get the show back rolling. Digital or analog. Expensive or cheap... any port in a storm! ;)
Besides system processors being fairly bulletproof, if one was to go down, the console itself can provide some redundancy.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio no worries on that front, it's just me, mixing our band through our PA. we're trying to downsize our gear, so i'd rather do it with the filters instead of buying another bit of gear to handle the crossovers. can i say your vids are excellent and were very helpful in getting me up to speed. i recommend them to anyone who has questions about these mixers. thanks again!
BIG THANK YOU!
No problem! Thanks for watching and commenting! :)
Hey Alan, your video's are awesome! Today my XR 18 arrives and it's our first step into the digital world having been using the Yamaha EMX desk previously. I do have a question about speakers and crossovers though. We currently have JBL JRX 212 tops and JBL JRX 215 bottoms - all passive - and all with horns and running in parallel so no defined sub. Are we to rely on the crossovers in the speakers for signal seperation or is there another / better way of doing it? We are currently looking to pair it with an EP4000 which doesnt offer DSP. Apologies if this is a basic question, I'm new to much of this! Thanks!
Edit... Well... I just looked up those speakers... I ASSumed the 215 was a 2x15 sub cab... It's a single 15 and horn... and the 212 is not a 2x12 with a horn. It's a 12 with a horn.
And that means they are 8 ohm boxes instead of 4 Ohm with 2 cones in each like I was assuming ;)
That's not going to work very well if you want actually sub content with kick. I'd recommend trading either the 212 or the 215 for a pair of actual sub cabs.
I typed to much below to correct it all... And it all still applies overall. It's just it doesn't apply to your speakers because you don't actually have subs. But if you get subs, then it all applies.
-----------------------------
How many subs and tops are you running? Just one EP4000 or one for tops and one for subs?
I think the EP4000 is limited to 2 Ohms per side, but check me on that in case it's actually 4 Ohms. I'm assuming 215 subs are 4 Ohms so a pair of them already would have you at 2 Ohms. So that is one channel taken up with just 2 subs IF you mean just one EP4K. Tops are probably the same. I'm just guessing based on norms, you'll need to check the specs to know for sure.
If you have MORE than 2 tops and 2 subs, and my assumption on impedance is correct, then one EP4000 isn't enough amp on impedance ability alone.
But, assuming you have 1 EP4000, and 2 subs and 2 tops, and my impedance assumptions are correct... I'd want to get some type of crossover. You could get a DSP unit like a Driverack, or a BSS, etc... I think Behringer still makes one too...
Or at least get an analog crossover like a DBX or Ashly, etc...
You really only need a 2 way crossover for the setup you're describing.
One amp is going to limit you to mono.
One channel will be subs, the other tops.
So you could only use one side of the crossover and have a normal, mono setup.
Or use both sides for aux fed subs, feeding the left with your sub signal from you sub aux output on the XR18, and feeding the right side of the crossover with a mono house feed from either the L or R side of the XR18. One channel of your EP4K would be for subs, and the other for the tops.
If you want to go stereo, then you need one more amp no matter what (for subs and tops), and you'd need a 3rd crossover for aux fed subs... or an amp with DSP added into the equation... OR a DSP with at least 3 inputs (one for left, one for right, and one for subs) and at least 3 outputs that can be assigned to L-R and sub).
Subs can be mono while tops are stereo.
But the one caveat is to make sure and check that the amp can handle 2 Ohms, and that your speakers don't go under that. A pair of 4 Ohm speakers = 2 Ohms. A pair of 8 Ohm speakers = 4 Ohms.
It probably wouldn't hurt to make sure the amp power and the speaker ratings match up. Make sure speaker peak and amp output roughly match to be ideal.
🔥 🔥 🔥
Thank you.
Thanks!
Thank you for this useful video. I am using my X18 with a yamaha dxs15 and yamaha dxr12 tops. I thought I understood how subs work, but it turns out that the dxs15 has a low pass filter but not a crossover. I was thinking of replacing it with a lighter RCF 705 as ii, and it appears that the RCF has a crossover? The "thru" jack on the dxs15 is always full range whereas the RCF "thru" jack seems to pass only the frequencies above the crossover setting. Apparently the RCF tops don't have high pass filters whereas the yamaha tops do. So, for now I set my yamaha setup up with 100 Hz on the tops and sub to get my 100 hz crossover. I see you have addressed topic of crossovers some in the video and comments. If I decided to mix subs and tops that aren't compatible as far as crossover settings, how dangerous/bad is it to use the double low-cut + PEQ method for making a digital crossover in the EQ section of XAir? I read about and tried putting in two low cut filters and then slipping in a slight PEQ band peak next to it to get what looks like a pretty nice crossover curve that is fairly steep. Is this a legitimate solution or a bad idea?
Great Video!! I have a quick question for you. I use two EV Evolve 50 speakers for my mains, I would like to add a18" powered sub to my configuration. My question is: As the Evolves have subs, should I set their EQ to 100hz & up, run the sub out of Aux 6 and set the 18" sub to 100hz and down. Not sure of the best way to add a powered sub. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
Are the Evolve 50's EV's stick style speakers? Don't they already have a sub as part of the package? Or is that what you're saying and you plan to get a bigger sub?
Great tutorial, when you say unity between the bus 6 and main fader dose that mean they move together? I can't figure out how to do that. Where do you set gain structure for mains
No, they don't move together. It would be great if they did. I'm just saying, if everything is as it should be, in a perfect world setting, the main fader for the rest of the system, and the fader controlling the subs would be at the same level (and that would be then also unity). But, real world issues and system setup flaws could dictate they don't actually match. Although once set, whether matching or not, if you have to change one, you should likely want to change the other the same matching amount to keep your sub/top balance the same.
The best way to have an overall system master on the XR18 when using subs on an aux is to assign a DCA to every channel (if you have a DCA to spare...). You'd still need to set your main fader and your master sub level fader, but once those are set (which as mentioned above is ideally at unity), then you'd use the DCA you assigned all the channels to as your master fader for mixing purposes.
Ultimately, this whole issue of not having a true, single master fader for everything isn't really that big of a problem that most people would use a DCA to recreate one because most people set the Master and leave it anyway. So the same is true for the master sub level too. Set it... leave it.
And if you do need to move the master up or down 5dB, it isn't a big deal to move the master sub fader up or down those same 5dB either.
...Unless you're doing some kind of system fade as part of the live cues from FOH. In that case, the DCA is a workable solution to getting everything on one 'master' fader.
There is a way to get a steeper low/high-cut for the auxes. As long as you have additional EQ-Bands to spare you can set the gain of the band to -15db and align it with the low-cut. Not perfect but good-enough i think.
Yes, filter stacking is an option, but as you say, not necessarily a perfect option.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio what are the dangers of filter stacking? is it generally ok for a small setup like i use (2 tops and 1 sub). if i could do this i could avoid buying a crossover when i upgrade my sub. the new sub would likely have an 80 hz crossover but my tops only have 100 and 120 hz settings for hpf.
Hey Alan love the videos but I'm still having a problem wrapping my head around this AUX and DCA stuff. My sound guy is away and I have to set up a small system for an outdoor stage in the round (or actually 3/4). There will be two front of stage, one stage right and one stage left and Sub in the middle. Two wedge monitors on stage. My inputs are two microphones, an ipad with Go Button, an XLR in from a DJ setup and BG music source. I want to have individual control of the four speakers and sub so I can adjust volumes as needed but have everything controlled by the overall main volume level. I also need control of overall volume of the monitors on stage (both on one output is fine) So my input strip looks like: Mic1 Mic2 Mic3 Mic4 iPad DJ BGmu...(Mic 3&4 are backups) Can you help me out? Once I get this set and can see it I'm sure I can figure stuff out from here.
I wouldn't think too much about DCAs for that right now. They could probably help with workflow, but if they're confusing you, there's not much need in them if it helps keep things more simple in your mind.
So, what I would do... Let's say you put your monitors on bus 1/ Aux out XLR 1 (assuming it's just one mon mix). Pre-Fader bus on the channels. Look for my new video that's coming up later today (Wed) to help explain that part.
Then I'd connect your 1st pair of speakers to the L-R's as normal.
Then I'd go into console routing, Aux Out, and set up Aux 5 and Aux 6 to be L-R out. This doesn't replace your left right, it just duplicates it. Connect your other pair of speakers to that.
Put your Aux fed sub on one of the open busses. (2, 3, or 4). I say do it that way because in my head it seems more logical to have the 1 mon mix coming out Aux out XLR1, then the sub coming out next (XLR out 2, 3, or 4), then the first set of LR outs (5-6), and then the second set of L-R outs (that are still connected to the normal L-R outputs). So, your main outs (now 4 of them) are all together in a row on the console.
You could route them any way you wanted to...
But there's also this caveat:
To link the two Aux outs, odd numbers has to be first. 5 needs to be the first linked output. You can link 5 to 6 but you can't link 4 to 5. Odd-Even, not Even Odd.
Anyway... by duplicating the mains out you have 2 sep stereo outs... the normal 'main' out, and a clone main out. But the main fader only controls the normal 'main' out. The Aux 5/6 fader would control the additional pair of mains.
next content suggestion. your take if your using this rack for all channels is the Stereo combinator. Which my understanding is a 5 band compressor. some state it's useful for live sound. 10 controls and some other controls for this and that. meter control which is hidden (left click on the meter selects 3 modes). so many effects in xair apps but only seen on youtube vid on stereo combinator. again consider if you think it's useful. I have it on inserted on my L R mains and admit I don't know enough about all the controls. Many thanks in any event for sharing your wisdom and doing all this work in your utube presentations. I know that the editing is time consuming.
I've not really used the Combinator much. I know it's a multiband comp like the Waves C6, which I use on my SC48, and also use for recording purposes.
The gist of it is, if you have a vocalist whose voice goes from warm to harsh as they push things (sing louder), then you can find that harshness range and set it up to comp only that area... and only when the singer hits that harshness range. Higher voices, female voices, can be where this problem really shows itself.
So, for example, you'd only comp 2K-4K region (roughly) and not the entire vocal.
And on the entire mix, the concept is the same. Maybe the system starts sounding honky or harsh on the peaks. So you set the Combinator with a couple of points to suck that honkiness point, and/or harsh point back, but with the threshold just catching the points when the system peaks. But the rest of the system can sail right on unaffected.
You could notch these same frequencies with an EQ, but then they'd be notched all the time. In theory, maybe they are fine most of the time... So the Combinator doesn't do anything to the ranges you set on it, until you get louder (cross the threshold) and those ranges get a bit more 'nasty' than you like. So the Combinator pulls them back, without touching the rest of your frequency balance and dynamic range.
The main reason I don't use it on the Behringer stuff is it has to go in the 4 main/first slots due to the DSP it uses. I like having a drum verb, a vocal verb plate, a hall verb (utility verb for various uses), and a delay. So I fill those slots and they are more important to me than the Combinator.
I do usually bus my vocals into a subgroup and have one of the Vintage comps on that bus, since the vintage comps will fit into slots 5-8 on the X32.
On the XR, I usually don't use subgroups, but if I do use a vocal subgroup, I just use the normal comp there and don't steal from my verbs/delays for that slot. So usually I am comping vocals at the channels a bit, and then comping them in the subgroup more. But with the channels taking some of the peaks away, it lets the bus comp work a little more consistently just to pull vocals together a little more. Kind of a 'glue' thing.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio I do a similar fx setup on our XR18 (5-piece Dead band: 2/3 vocals, 2 gtrs, bass, keys, dms): plate rev slot 1, room rev slot 2, nothing in 3 and combinator in 4. I’m hesitant to put delay in, to muddy it up, but I could easily add it in slot 3. What do you use your delay for in this type of setup, generally! Tx!
@@bmyregaard I almost always have the Stereo Delay in one of the slots. It's usually FX4 on the XR18 or X32, but if I'm using the Combinator or a Vintage Comp, then the Stereo Delay goes to slot 3 on the XR18 and the bus processing goes to FX4.
I generally don't do anything too crazy on it... roll off some highs... A bit of HPFing... Match the left and right delay times. Limited repeats (feedback).
So by putting the fader on aux 6 you have a complete different eq option than everything else for that said channel?
On the XR mixers, would using 2 HPFs or LPFs at a time achieve the same slope as the crossover filters on the X32 ?
Many thanks!
I would think layering would work.
Hello Alan recent sub here, loving the content! In your honest opinion is the mr18 worth the extra few bucks over the xr18….? I’ve been toying with the idea of going digital desk again as our band is running out of channels since adding a keyboard player! I’ve two options! Option 1 is to buy a new mr18 for 850€ or option 2 is to buy my brothers couple of years old xr18 and a full set of audix drum mics for 800€ …..! Any info/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
I'd recommend the MR18 if money is no object, but in the real world, in a small club with a small sound system, you're not likely to hear the difference in the XR18 vs the MR18. And if the money saved gets you some nice drum mics, that is actually a place where you'll notice more of a difference. It sounds like the XR18 deal is the one for you.
When the MR18 had a 10 year warranty, that changed the dynamic a bit... but now that it's 3 like the XR18, it loses that advantage.
If you're in larger venues with really nice (read: expensive) large sound systems capable of high SPLs, a large dynamic range, and a wide frequency response, it's possible you'd notice a difference in the two (although that is debatable once the venue noise is in the equation) but it's also not a case where the CROWD would notice the difference. A good mix is a good mix. Good mix practices are good mix practices (IOW, keeping the system out of clipping, good gain structure practices and EQ practices)... Neither mixer will get in your way of that.
Thank you for the quick and very interesting reply, we only use a set of 2 way 12” dynacord tops with a set of ev 18” scope’s so that rules out the big expensive system part of it ! Have you used audix drum mics before…? What are your opinions on them….?
@@billytremoloband7456 audix makes good stuff. No issues with audix.
Even though I’ve got my tops reaching down to 100hz and my subs reaching up to 100hz with the onboard DSP on both speakers. Should I still use hi and low cut filters on both EQ’s for the tops and subs or is that not necessary being I’ve got built in crossovers in both speakers? Thanks!
It's not really necessary. You could always set a LPF on the tops for supersonic stuff. Or set a HPF way below the subs cutoff as a safety. So, if the sub has a filter at 40Hz, you could set one in the console at 20Hz. But if the sub filter was 20Hz, I wouldn't necessarily duplicate that because it would be a steeper rolloff (in the end) than whatever the speaker manufacturer had deemed 'optimal' when they designed the speakers. Which would be true about not duplicating any of the points.
Same would apply to the hi-mids... If they have a factory roll off at 100Hz, I wouldn't duplicate that, but I might do a safety rolloff at 50Hz or something.
Big ol' caveat... for the LPF on the sub (X-over point), if it's at 100Hz for example... And IF you pump extra lows rather than a flat, neutral system, you MIGHT benefit from a lower crossover point... like 90Hz or 80Hz... to change the point where the overlap occurs (since boosting the subs effectively moves that point higher if you were to look at it visually). But still leaving the tops at 100hz and not doing anything (except maybe that 'safety' setting I mentioned above).
Thanks for sharing! I followed your steps but my issue is…I only want the Kick going to Sub on Bus 6. It IS going there but it’s also going to mains. I don’t want Kick going through mains. Is this possible? Is there a reason I shouldn’t configure it this way?
Thanks again 🙏
Let's breakdown the answer into multiple parts. First, if you want the kick only going to the sub, you can unassign the channel from L-R. In X-Air Edit, select the channel, select the channel tab, and at the far right you should see MAIN OUT and a LR button that is highlighted to assign the channel to the L-R out. Or, select the channel, select the MAIN tab, and now that same button is on the left side in the MAIN OUTPUT section. Either place does the same thing.
IF you've done that and STILL have sub in the mains, then on Bus 6 in the Main section (right of mixer), if you select the Bus 6 main fader, and then MAIN tab at the top, in the left hand side the Main Output section, Main Stereo LR button should NOT be highlighted. If it is, then it's sending the signal in Bus 6 to the XLR Aux 6 output AND the mains.
Ok... but then the 3rd part of this is to ask why you only want kick in the subs? There could be reasons... like you're in a very small venue and everything is loud enough from the stage so that it doesn't need to be in the PA, except maybe you just want to add some missing low end to the kick. Or maybe you're just wanting to send lows to a drum sub monitor that doesn't have its own filter.
But thses aren't necessarily typical. A kick has a full frequency response. You of course have the low end and the bass you feel in the kick, but you also have mids and upper mids to even some higher end content for the click of the beater. The attack of the beater. You generally want that as part of the house mix. How much you want to emphasize that (or even de-emphasize that attack) is drummer and genre specific. But it's there. So you don't necessarily want to ignore that part of the kick drum's frequency response, nor the mids, as it's all part of what gives the kick drum some definition and its overall sound.
For an example of this, if you haven't seen the kick drum video on the channel, you might check that video out:
ua-cam.com/video/CQg1_-ZJ4MU/v-deo.html
Or the video micing Kenny Aronoff's kit:
ua-cam.com/video/uXGug5smBrQ/v-deo.html
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks for the response. From your description, I was able to identify how to remove the Kick from the Main Output. I also see your point about granting the Kick a full sound response by including in the Mains. Now we wait for the next rehearsal to test the differences between the two. We are playing a small venue next - which is why I wanted to keep Kick limited to sub but that's to be determined. Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.
Hi Alan, I am using a passive sub and my amp does not have a dsp and there is no cross-over gear in my rack. Is setting up a hcut filter my best option on Aux 6? Regards
Basically, yes, HPF and LPF... other than buying a crossover to add to your rack
Hi Alan, thanks for the video again! but my question is we are a small church about 50 ppl..do we even need a subwoofer? and with this aux.6 seems like another control that we have to oversee..is there a way to connect the sub (if we get one and just one not pair) to the mains so just one control?
You can definitely connect a subwoofer without using aux fed sub method. Technically, if you add a sub, you'll need someway to crossover the frequencies from the sub to the tops. The sub, if powered, might even have this built in.
As for whether you need a sub or not... this is harder to answer. If you only use your PA for speech, then no, you don't need a sub. If you just use your PA for speech and background music like an acoustic guitar or piano, then it's still probably a 'no'.
But if you do live music with drums and bass guitar, or tracks with drums and bass, and synth...etc... and you want it to sound really full and powerful, then it's more likely a subwoofer (or two) would be helpful.
Being a smaller space, a lot depends on the size of the existing speakers (are they capable of low end at all?), and what you're asking of and expect of the system.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thank you so much Alan. Yes we are full band and will i guess need a subwoofer at least one. I was watching another video where the it uses one of the mains on to connect to sub then from the sub it connects both the loud speaker...is this correct?
You may have covered this in a separate video but if we have turbosound mains and subs would it be beneficial to run them using Ultranet as opposed to XLR cables? Seems to me like limiting the D to A conversions in the chain would be beneficial. I guess that's another video suggestion for you as well! Thanks
I haven't done much on Ultranet just because the only Ultranet speakers I have (a couple of little 8" Turbos) don't gain me much to use Ultranet the way I normally deploy the speakers. They are sometimes talking head speakers, sometimes program monitor speakers, and during the pandemic they've been studio mons...
But you are correct I'd think in that Ultranet would be the better way to go in the circumstance you describe. I don't know that you'd notice much difference though in a real world application like that so it would be more about whether using Cat5e (and the Ultranet connection was any easier) or whether the cable paths make a more robust XRL cable more practical.
On the X32 you get some speaker control with the Ultranet... so that's a plus if you need it. I don't know if the XR18 gives you that or not. I assume it would... I've just never checked.
Instead of taking Aux 6 sub from the aux 6 of each channel, could you take it post fader of the mains so they would automatically track together and not have to move those faders individually? Of course you could not remove certain channels from the sub mix- but simpler might be better. Also when using the PEQ as a xover, can the filter "quality" be increased beyond 2 for a steeper curve?
There's no real way to do that as far as tying sub out and main out... There's no 'post fader' of the main option... EXCEPT... Since the aux fed sub feed on each channel should normally be post fader anyway, you can assign EVERY channel (including FX returns) to a single DCA (call it MAIN DCA). Once you have your initial sub/main balance correct, then use that "MAIN DCA" to control overall volume.
This essentially does what you were hoping to do with your idea, but your idea doesn't have a way to actually implement it on the console.
I'm sure layering filters will increase the sharpness of the overall filter effect, but I'm a big believer in handling speaker processing (at least as far as crossover functions) to external hardware. External hardware is almost never touched. The console is constantly getting tweaked, changes made, mistakes made, multiple operators, scenes loaded, etc... and eventually someone is going to overwrite or reset the EQ or reset the entire console (intentionally or not) and there goes your system crossover points. And you might not know it until it's too late.
Quick question: I've set my subs up like described, but when I mute my mains, the subs keep going until I go into the subgroup and mute them there, which is weird. How can I solve this? Can't wrap my head around it somehow...TIA
The subs are no longer tied to the mains when they are aux fed. The simple way to have a 'main' that controls everything is to assign every channel to a DCA (or iDCA is an option in Mixing Station app as well). Once you have your relative sub/main balance set as normal, use the DCA as the Main.
Or just setup a mute group that mutes every channel and use the mute group...
Or just remember that the sub aux and mains are not tied together so know that you have to mute the main AND the sub aux when you want to kill the house but maybe want the channels still unmuted for monitor reasons.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it. Your videos are great and helped me a lot when I got my XR16 a couple of weeks ago. I will check the DCA solution.
Another Aussie here and love your channel, very helpful, thanks Alan!
Anyway, I bought some 18" passive subs, amp to run them and a crossover to complement our powered mixer with tops of single 15" with horn each for L/R. Things were working out fine until yesterday when our last few songs of the gig blew the tops and all the magic smoke escaped :)
On inspection, the woofer coils are gone on both tops (horns test at 6ohms each) and the built in crossover cap and 25watt resister that feeds the woofer are well and truly fried in each top as well!
My question is - and it may be a warning/helpful for others - should I have just used the crossover to feed the sub's amp only and sent the full signal to powered mixer to run the tops? I'm thinking the thinner mix overran the woofer's with high end (or not enough low) and fried the coils??
It's a budget setup I know and I'm building it as I can, without the subs our sound was very thin, especially outdoors but the subs have helped heaps. I'm thinking to run the signal from the XR18 to the powered mixer then send it from the outs to the crossover to filter for the subs(?) This should let the full range top speakers work as normal and just boost the bass with the subs, what do you think?
Thanks again for your great channel and advice, cheers.
It sounds like you were really clipping the tops pretty hard for that level of 'destructive chaos'. Does the top amp not have a HPF you can engage? Was it engaged? I definitely would've engaged a HPF somewhere for the tops.
Technically, you could've been clipping anywhere and the square wave and constant signal would've done damage. But realistically, it was probably clipping the amp... if not "amp too".
The XR18 could let you filter the signal that goes to the tops. I'd definitely do that, because low frequency energy eats up amplifier headroom... and preamp headroom... on and on. The more you can reduce that from needless places, the more headroom you can buy yourself. Clipping = heat. Heat = burned components. And that is when the magic smoke is released! ;)
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks Alan, yeah, the amp output signal was in the orange a bit but not clipping proper. I think I worked it out after checking the rig setup again and I've had time to think, just asking you the question helped :)
First, I think I was running a bit hot from the crossover, should've checked that I didn't move any of my standard settings in setup (which I did...doh! Lesson learned). It wasn't running that hot before so I was a bit confused but was too busy drumming to deal with it :)
Second, the powered amp was running at around 4-5. Since adding the subs we've gained more dB and it was a quieter venue so I turned it down from the usual 7-8 volume setting. So I think that along with the hot signal I was running the tops a bit lean on power and that slowly cooked the system and voice coils.
I now fully understand the need to run your amps as high as possible (to suit speakers of course ;) )
cheers.
I can feel alot of man love in the room 😂
LOL!
Alan, I have older passive JBL speakers and I plan to use one or both as subs. I just acquired a Crown XLS1000 but cant find any instruction or best practice specific to setting it up to provide either one channel or both (bridge mode) to send low frequencies. What would you recommend I do. BTW, I'm a novice ;-)
I don't think I've used the XLS so I had to find the manual.
www.crownaudio.com/en/product_documents/142169-1_xls3_multilingualmanual_041210-pdf
The XLS doesn't have a lot of power, so for subs I'd definitely bridge it. But make sure you don't connect more than a 4 Ohm load to it. The manual has info in the "Getting Started" section.
Then I'd use the Bridge mode with a LPF and select a crossover point there. Without knowing your system it's hard to know what to pick, but if your tops have a 100Hz HPF, then set the Crown XLS at 100Hz for the LPF. It could be, if you like bumping your subs a bit, that you'll 'like' a 10Hz or so gap... So maybe the subs are at 90Hz and the tops 100Hz. Or Subs at 100Hz and tops at 110Hz.
The concept here being that if everything was completely flat then the overlap point of the sub to the tops would be at one select point. But if you raise the level of the subs, you're moving that point higher. Lowering the frequency of the crossover would naturally lower that point of overlap back to where it would've been had the subs not been boosted. So it's not really a 'hole' in the frequency response. Just a trick to keep things from getting thick at that crossover point if the subs are ran hot. ...If that makes sense.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thank you. I realize I gave you a very specific question without a lot of info to go on. Currently, my XR18 is only used in my studio for rehearsal and recording demos. The Main L/R are connected to Alto TS120A powered speakers. I just bought the Crown amp from an estate sale. The passive JBL speaker is in a homemade cabinet. Using what I have the plan is to connect one of the JBL cabs to the Crown fed via the AUX bus using the Crown amp in Crossover Mode
'When using the “Crossover Mode”, the amplifier is configured to use a LowPass
Filter on Channel 1 and a HighPass Filter on Channel 2 but only using channel 1.
I think this will be a better option so I don't overdrive the JBLs. I'll have to double check the model and the Ohms but I think they are 4 ohm.
Thanks again.
So for mid/high boxes on kick I should use high cut down to say 100hz? Or close
That sounds like a good ballpark place to work from.
Can someone explain how I would properly connect the EVOX J8. The speakers normally connect to powered subs. From my understanding I would connect the speakers to L+R. Use 1 Output from the mixer to the subwoofer and the out of that subwoofer to the next subwoofer?
Can someone guide me how I would do the connection for the EVOX J8. Crossover is 220 HZ on subwoofer. Thanks
I'm not really familiar with the speakers, and it depends on how the speakers are made. I assume they are made to function as a package and so it's possible you don't even have access to the amp for the tops and that it is all done from within the sub enclosure (amps/crossover network).
This is the best explanation for running subs on aux out there.
I'm still curious what advantage this has over simply running the subs off of a daisy chain XLR pass through from a main speaker and using the built in crossovers on the speakers themselves. Is there any?
If I follow your question, the difference would be... let's use a vocal mic for the discussion...
Your vocalist's lower range is maybe 120Hz (changes with the singer but we need a number for the example ;) ). You set the HPF on the channel to 100Hz being conservative.
First, that 100Hz is not a dead drop off. Frequencies will drop at a fixed slope rate.
Meanwhile, the vocals aren't the only thing in that vocal mix. It's picking up bass guitar, kick drum, and wash from the monitors (if the band is not on IEMS), and wash from the PA. Even room noise.
Now, the fact it has that HPF engaged means it will roll off that low end the mic is picking up, but it won't be a hard cut off. It's just sloping it away.
So, with a standard setup, anything that is picked up by the vocal mic, will get to the PA. And anything, even below the 100Hz HPF on the vocal mic, will still get to the PA (based on the rolloff amount of the HPF... and to the subs. Since 100Hz is not a hard cut off, then to varying degrees, that stage wash is still getting to the subs, matching the roll off of the HPF (low cut).
But with Aux fed subs, if you don't turn an aux (bus) up on a channel, then nothing from that channel is getting to the subs. So for our vocal example, with aux fed subs in the equation, we'd only be sending to the mid hi's because that's what is connected to our L-R outs. If we don't bring the aux up on the subs on that vocal channel, then there's no path from that vocal mic for stage wash of any frequency to get sent to the subs.
There's plenty debate about whether it's ultimately worth it... especially these days with time alignment... better designed and more efficient systems... variable HPF's on desks... utilizing the IEMs instead of loud stage mons... And if utilizing it, maintaining proper balance with the low end in instruments (though, sometimes the goal is to NOT maintain proper balance with the low end of some instruments.. which aux fed subs definitely makes that possible).
Far and away, the most popular configuration remains some form of subs on an aux. Many times the amplifier system is always configured that way, and traveling engineers will hand you 4 lines... Left, Right, Sub, Fill. Even if they are NOT using aux fed subs from their touring console.
They can feed their L-R bus to a stereo matrix, where they also have a 3rd matrix taking a a clone of that L-R signal... This 3rd matrix feeds the subs. And so that separate sub line is getting a normal mix sent to it and the system.
They do this so that system providers can setup the rig for aux fed subs, because that is a popular requirement, but for the engineers that don't want aux fed subs, this gets them connected in a way that mimics a normal (non-aux fed subs system). Otherwise, system providers would have to reconfigure the system for traveling engineers and desks. And if you're talking festivals and multiple bands, then that gets even more complicated.
Rewinding a bit, some people use the "M" output on the X32 and M32 as their sub feed. Anything they want going to a sub, they engaged that center output on the channel strip, and use the channel level control for it to feed the sub. Same concept as aux fed subs... just another route to get there.
I have a DDJ-800 running 2 xlr's to channel 15-16.
Inside these, in the sends, I am seeing my aux fed subs, which are 5-6. 52's, and 18's(subs)
SImple eq seems to do the trick when routing this way, but I seem to be hearing a little bleed of high end on the subs.
Do you have a fix to this? Or is this inevitable? I have a hpf and lpf on bus 5-6. Should that be the only eq section I concern myself with? It's odd. I might figure it out, but it would be great if you had a quickfix or solution. TY~!
The HPF and LPF isn't very steep as compared to what a real crossover filter would be doing. You can stack filters to better mimic what a real crossover would do, but you can only do so much on the XR18. The X32/M32 does have crossover filters available... Although I always recommend an external crossover/DSP to handle system processing like this. Or an amp with built-in processing (or powered speakers with built in processing).
You just have so much more control that way, and since the boxes don't ever get changed once set, it mitigates the chances of mistakes happening with a console reset, loading a new scene, or something similar.
Other than the low cut and high cut filters not being very steep, I can't think of a reason you'd hear high end bleed in the subs. And even with that, how high are you talking about?
I figured it out! I just kept coming back to this video day to day. It took a bit to absorb what was being said and why. Mostly just over equing and not adjusting the volume of the sends properly.
Appreciate the response more than you know man! Your videos have saved me from a lot of trial and error that bites into time. With a base of what does what and why, it's been a lot easier to figure out when tinkering. THANK YOU! @@AlanHamiltonAudio
The 52's were passive, they were bridged at the pa, along with only 1 xlr going out from that pa. I adjusted the crossover settings via manual, and the subs were much easier to control. In the end, I discarded the 52's for my dj performances, due to already having (4) 18in powered subs. They do more than enough for the venue I'm in, and the control is now simplistic, down to one bus channel instead of two. Less is definitely more when it comes to bass. They sound great now, can't even tell subs are there. Basically feels as thought the bass is coming from the mains. Very clean. Can't thank you enough for your tutorials!
Cool! Thanks! Glad you got it worked out. @@NonnyStrikes
Can you Help me how setting this XR18. I just have it, and i use for onsite and online sound system. How can i setting the volume, eq, gate, or anything in online setting ( use USB soundcard for zoom) without give the affect to onsite setting...??
See if this video helps. Lots of information about channel settings.
ua-cam.com/video/xPsSPK6RKzU/v-deo.html
Another question: I am trying to get the kickdrum only out via the subs. Is there a way to route this? I somehow don't manage to take the signal out of the mains...TIA again
That is simple enough... Just unassign that channel from the L-R out on the channel. But why would you want the kick only going to the subs? There's plenty of other frequency content in a kick that is above the subwoofer range. ...Unless you're just going for some song specific effect, normally the kick would go to subs AND tops.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks for the reply again. We are a 4 piece band in small room with loud instruments. The drums are not mic'ed to go through our PA system, only the vocals are. Bass and guitar simply come from the amps and drums are plenty loud. So I don't use the subs for anything as they are not needed and only routed the 3 vocals to come out of the tops. Therefore I thought to have only the kickdrum come through the subs to give it a little more low end, as it is a small kickdrum. It might be a stupid idea though and muddy up the whole mix, but I will simply try it.
@@sanchopansen4431 I kinda wondered if that might be what you were doing. That's not necessarily a bad idea, especially for the kick that you might want to emphasize the lows a bit more than the natural volume of the kick allows.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio I will try it and post my result here. Thanks for the help! Keep up the great work.
How should the kick channel fader and EQ be set for mains LR when the kick is sent to bus 6/subs
Assuming the system is balanced correctly (lows/mids/highs) then the Main L-R fader and the bus 6 main fader should match.
That way, anything you want in the subs, if you put it at unity on the channel, should sound perfectly balanced in the PA.
To really get a feel for it, assuming you don't have any measurement tools, use your WAV/MP3/CD Player with the sub set at unity on a channel (or channels for stereo)... And listen to the system balance first. If you notice that makes the subs too hot, or they're not hot enough... adjust at the amps/speakers. Whether you'd want to cut the level of the tops if you need more subs, in balance, or just raise the subs would depend on how hard you're already driving them. Just balance things and keep them out of heavy clipping.
A workaround for essentially needing two master faders (on the X-Air stuff)... a sub and a main L/R... is once you have the balance at the amp/speakers/processor within a good window and sounding good and the mixer Main LR and sub fader is at unity- Assign EVERY channel to an unused DCA. Since your channel sends for your sub should be post-fader typically, that means that this DCA becomes your defacto main for everything. So one master fader.
Of course it's not that big of deal to just adjust the 2 faders if you need that DCA for something else... but it is a way to have a single master control on the X-Air stuff.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio
I love your channel, I believe I’ve watched most of your videos multiple times in my opinion you explain everything better than anyone else I’ve seen yet! Thanks for all you do. Keep up the good work!!!
@@timothyclinton8644 Thanks! :)
did u do a video where u group a set of channels together , by dragging and dropping ?(not linking) ive seen it but cant find it now thx
I haven't done one on it. Is that a Mix Station feature? I'll have to look and see.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thanks for the response, i pretty sure it was on a laptop .
Where is the global icon and the in/out tab on an ipad in the app?
I don't use the iPad so I don't have an answer. Maybe someone that does will see this and chime in.
Or is that 100hz of low cut?
How does one do this with the app?
I know my way around the Mixing Station app well enough to do all of this easily enough. It's pretty similar in overall layout, just more pages and a smaller screen as compared to the X-Air Edit program.
The iPad app, I never really use... I don't have an iPad. I know it can do it, but without it in front of me I don't know the GUI and the pages well enough to explain it.
The room is always affected by people temperate and how dry or vapor is in the air 😂❤
Can you do a video of an Aux Fed sub using soundcraft efx12.. Im new to your channel.. Thanks.
I don't have one to video, but let me take a look at one online and see if I can at least give you some pointers or info in the comments in a day or two.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio ok thanks bro.. will be waiting for that
@@tatangmo7853 Ok, you might be in a "can't get there from here scenario". The EFX only has 2 auxes. One is for the built in FX and one is theoretically available, but I imagine the odds are good you're using it for monitors.
Technically, the FX bus output could serve as an aux sub feed IF you aren't using the built in FX. It's already post fader so you'd just need to connect it like mentioned in the video in part 2 (since beyond part 1, part 2 and 3 are both cross platform chapters mainly). The FX bus feed on each channel would then become your sub feed.
Assuming you're already using the FX... then IF the other aux is available and not being used for monitors, then in the master section of the board there is a PRE/POST button. Set that in the POST position. Now, connect your sub or sub amp/crossover to the Aux output on the console, and then refer to this video in chapters 2 and 3.
But, I'm kind of assuming, you're using monitors in that aux. So if you're using both the FX bus (which is just a post fader aux) and the 'spare' aux, then you're almost in 'can't get there from here territory'.
There IS one other option that is a bit convoluted but I'll try and explain it.
First, you'd need to run your PA in mono.
Pan everything to the right and connect your powered tops (or you amp/x-over for the tops) to the right side of the board.
Now, connect the left (left for 'low' to make this easy to remember) to your powered subs or amp/crossover.
For any channels you want to send to the subs, slowly pan those channels to the left (but never hard left). Somewhere between a pan control at 3 O'clock and noon should be about where it'll end up for your low end channels (kick, deep toms, bass guitar, keys... tracks...).
If you pan it hard left, nothing would get to your tops from that channel. It would all go to the subs. The idea is for none of the vocals to go to the subs, but things like bass guitar and kick drum, instruments that NEED that low frequency extension, would get the top end normally, and by panning toward the center from the right, you'd be adding in/sending lows from those instruments to the subs too.
In any of these cases, the info from chapter 2 and 3 of the video basically would apply the same.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thank you so much.. This helped me a lot on figuring out my trouble.. More power and more videos to come.. God Bless.
@@tatangmo7853 Glad to help! Thanks! :)
I configured mine for this and now if the subs fader is down my mid low doesn’t come out of my full range tops! I turn the sub fader up then I get Low- mids in my tops. There not linked in anyway except for the mixer. Main EAWs go to a crown And aux 6 feeds my EV powered 18s. Frustrating
Check the aux out for your subs in the master section. I bet you have it assigned to the LR. It should not be assigned to the LR.
Following up on my assumption as to what is wrong (sub aux is assigned the LR), this FAQ video talks about this (though it's usually happening with monitors... but it's the same issue and answer either way). Check out the section on why are my mons coming up in FOH:
ua-cam.com/video/x9wciA2wFd0/v-deo.html
Ok is seems to be working. On the mains The input levels are the same but audio output/volume is much lower. I’ll have to play with it…Thank you sir
So now I don't need a crossover?
I'd use a crossover dedicated to subs. Either built into powered subs, a separate rackmount unit, or a full-fledged, multi-input DSP that has enough inputs that you can do 1 input for subs, and another for your tops... Which would generally be Left and Right... So 3 total inputs at minimum for that.
But, for mono, you could do that with two inputs... Make the left side a sub input on your crossover/DSP and make the right side the input for your tops. That assumes your crossover is more than 2 way, or that your tops are ran passive.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio thank you for the info brother
@@jlc2093 No problem. Glad to help! :)
Great video but man this is super confusing and hell of a learning curve I think ima keep using my analog mixing board it’s just super simple for me I hate complicated stuff I’m a simp lol!
Thanks! Yeah, it can be overwhelming at first but once it all clicks into place you get the hang of it.
@ I’m going to reach out for some help from a few dj friends who know how to work it
But I don't get the sub setup very well please break it down a little more for me to be able to understand more
trying to figure out in ear setup , can't figure that out by watching this.
There are several videos on the channel that target IEM setups.
This one is a walkthru showing how to build a dedicated IEM rig with the XR18 featured.
ua-cam.com/video/xT9gTBFxvZk/v-deo.html
This one is more about the mixer settings when using the console as a dedicated monitor console:
ua-cam.com/video/Zf83kolgVzk/v-deo.html
Even though those are talking about using it as a dedicated monitor console, there are things to be gleaned even when using it for FOH and Monitors.
This is a new video that shows how to connect IEMs to any console and talks about various tips. While not specific to the XR18, it's a good video to get more of an understanding about connections, etc...
ua-cam.com/video/XLCqQ3rF5Sg/v-deo.html
This one is an 'Explainer' video that tries to target mistakes some users make in tap points for things like monitors:
ua-cam.com/video/CAO56X-uxWk/v-deo.html
This one is a general overview of the output routing.
ua-cam.com/video/CAO56X-uxWk/v-deo.html
There are also a couple of video talking directly about the channel inputs... and about the mixer outputs. Essentially, walk-thrus. Not specific to IEMs or monitors, but likely contain some answers about signal flow that help you understand the bigger picture:
ua-cam.com/video/UNO-dACc7YY/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/xPsSPK6RKzU/v-deo.html
There are some other vids that might interest you about the XR18 or IEMs in general so check the channel library for ones beyond these links.
Happy New Year, Alan!
I have 2 sub. Should we setup stereo sub for better sound or mono sub setting will give us the same sound quality?
For now, think stereo setting will give us more dynamic sound which will be better. AmIright?
In almost all cases these days, when subs are driven by their own feed, they are ran mono.
In fact, many times systems are configured for stereo but even when the engineer is not using aux fed subs, the subs are fed from a mono matrix, so they are still mono regardless of any panning on the channels.
So, I wouldn't worry about setting up two outs for stereo subs. There's nothing really to be gained by it except to complicate the setup a bit and use a bus that you might want to save as a spare or use for a record feed or something.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio Thanks for your quick response!
Kind regards.
Why would you ever put any kind of low cut regardless on a channel feed a sub…
Because the channel is (likely) also feeding other sources besides just the house. If monitors are from FOH then it's feeding monitors. If there's a stream mix from FOH, then it's feeding the stream... or a record mix... broadcast mix... etc...
It's also a good practice because even though in a specific case the mix might be only feeding the house, in the future that might not always be the case.
You also want to be able to call up you program monitor or headphones and hear an accurate representation of your mix and what you want your mix to be.
Not using the HPF when it's called for could be building bad habits.
@@AlanHamiltonAudio I thought this was dedicated to a sub and a sub alone? Main Left and right would feed well, main left and right tops at FOH and sub group six would be a mono send to feed only the powered FOH subs. I would I understand putting a HPF on the sub group
@@JettyDeke I thought you were talking about why you'd use a HPF on any input channel if that channel was not being sent to the sub (so low end would be gone from that channel in the mains anyway).
@@AlanHamiltonAudio yeah in your video on the sub group feeding the dedicated sub you put a HFP/Low Cut on the subgroup 6 that is feeding the sub. It was just confusing. I understand the notch you were talking about in case it was feeding back
@@JettyDeke It's always a good idea to put a HPF on the subs... somewhere... to protect against over-excursion. In most cases it'll be in the DSP.
If you want realability you have to pay for it...
No way behrinig can through pro stage...