@@malvoliosf so unless somebody can demonstrate that they suffered some sort of material harm from Masterlock's negligence, there likely won't be sufficient standing for a lawsuit against them. Just selling a bad product isn't enough for a lawsuit
Careful, I said a similar thing a while back and got utterly flamed. The consensus of opinion seemed to be that it was fine to sell products not fit for purpose, and it was 100% on the customer to do their own research. Furthermore, when pointing out LPL's unique position of being a subject matter expert and a lawyer, and suggesting it might be nice if he documented a legal attempt to fix some of these problems, I was apparently being "entitled". I like LPL, he seems like a decent chap, but from the outside it seems like he's profiting from the yt revenue, educating the next generation of thieves, all whilst selling them the tools to commit the crimes.
@@owensparks5013 Showing a method that has been known for 100 years is hardly "educating future thieves", If anything it will inform people to stay away from Masterlock products. Masterlock could have easily fixed the issue, but they didn't. What aggravates it even more is that Masterlock is advertizing these locks as "High security" when they're clearly not. That sounds awfully close to fraud.
@@bigmike- Depends on your jurisdiction. Federal law gives little recourse to deceived consumers but under California law, consumers do have standing to sue over potentially misleading claims about product quality, like high security. In California, you don’t necessarily have to prove material harm like a break-in to take legal action. The Unfair Competition Law (UCL) and False Advertising Law (FAL) allow consumers to file lawsuits if they’ve suffered any economic loss due to misleading advertising. So, if Master Lock marketed the lock as “high-security” but it’s easily pickable, that could potentially be grounds for a claim if a consumer can show they bought it believing it was secure. Also, under the Consumers Legal Remedies Act (CLRA), consumers can take action if they relied on false claims in making a purchase. So, in California, it’s not just about negligence or showing major harm-a disappointed consumer who bought the lock under the impression it was more secure than it is might have a case to ask for a refund or other remedies.
Masterlock's incompetence came in handy for me. I bought a house with a security cage around the air conditioner unit; however, the key to the Masterlock puck lock was not provided when I took possession of the house (apparently the previous owner did not have it either). One Covert Instruments order later, and my rudimentary lockpicking skills had the puck lock removed.
That's just how stupid it is. An amateur should not be able to open an actual lock that easily. I bought myself a pick set and a master lock to practice on. I was disappointed when I realized how easy the wave rake was, to the point even that I gave the tools to my wife and my almost 70 year old mother in law, and they were both able to open the lock on the first try.
@@neosmagusYep. Some locks are easier than others. That's a fact. At the end of the day though, hardly any locks will prevent a determined person from getting in.
@@mattmarzula Missing the entire point of a lock -- even a freakin' castle wall with a moat won't prevent someone from *eventually* getting in. The point is to provide some level of delay and put other security measures on top of that, like lighting, police that actually care about theft, etc..
@@mattmarzula True, a significant benefit of locks is slowing down a thief thus increasing the risk of detection. A picker with time or a thief with destructive tools will not be kept out.
I just think that general public doesn't know what a good lock should be. They see "max security" and other fancy words, decent price and sturdy look - they buy it. And it's not that often people get robbed or picked to think that their lock is crap. TBH, I don't even know if my apartament lock is good or not. I don't know the manufacturer. Feel more safe by the fact that they'd have to pass 3 doors to get to me and our building is under private security, so it should keep most thieves away, they won't go for a risky target if are unshure of potential profit.
The scary thing is, it looks like you are using the key with this attack. So you could do this in view of others, and people would think you had the key.
That's what gets me. I feel like I could tell if someone is using a turner and a single pick pretty easily. But comb picking just looks like someone using their key.
2 місяці тому+173
Also it wouldn't be hard to manufacture a comb in a shape of an actual key, so the suspicion would be even smaller.
@@RhinoBarbarian even if you could successfully identify that someone is picking a lock, what exactly are you going to do about it? "I left my keys in my other pants" or "i'm a locksmith doing this job for my friend who lost his keys" are both statements that you couldn't really contest in the moment without some other supporting suspicious behavior. Sure, you could call the police and attempt a "citizens arrest" while you wait for the cops to arrive, but if you're wrong, it's YOUR ass that ends up in jail when the person in question presses charges for wrongful arrest. Especially since the 911 dispatcher will almost certainly advise you not to get personally involved.
Exactly, and if they do change it, then the price will go up, and people will stop buying them, because they only buy their locks because they are cheap. People who want proper locks don't buy Master Locks in the first place. If I were Master Lock I wouldn't change a thing. I would just sit back and be glad that people buy my cheap garbage.
it's basic economics. why pay to make or change something when what you have no is selling? products used to be better when our companies were run by engineers and people who were interested in the thing they were making and also strove to make it better. now they're run by MBA's.
But this also only works in an actual "free" market, where competition is forced to exist to some degree AND the consumer needs all available information. Most of todays markets arent "free" by many means, because information is obscured or you arent actually "free" to choose.
Or if they're getting sued for failing to address an issue that was brought to their attention years ago and not telling their customers their locks don't actually protect anything.
Precisely. And it is the same ethos that drives United Healthcare. This is why people need to recognize this is not just a problem restricted to the health care system, but a systemic problem that touches every aspect of society. Maybe Marx wasn't right that the working class is Capitalism's grave diggers, but he was certainly right that Capitalism will bury mankind.
It seems like it's intentional. Now if the insurance companies starts to deny claims where locks with this flaw have been involved we might see some change. Even better - cancel insurances for Masterlock and management.
they’re too busy putting the security pins in _plastic_ LOTO locks for some reason. those aren’t even security locks, they don’t need the pins, and the plastic body negates them anyway. they’re safety locks.
@@JohnDoe-pk2hs I'm not sure it's worth your time. The pin diameters are too small for the bores on the plastic body ones I have tried, (not from his site) such that you can use your turner to open them without picking any pins. A cutaway metal body, if you are willing to pay more or have it made by a machinist, would be more realistic.
@@slipperynickels the Loto Locks are very smart: They are so hard to pick, that you rather destroy the lock then pick it. Destruction of a LOTO lock when a key is reported lost is totally reasonable. A LOTO lock that can be removed and closed again with a simple tool would not serve its purpose. I see the funny reality that master locks are either indestructible, but easy to bypass or hard to bypass but easily destroyed, but the LOTO Locks ain't the problem here.
It's really sad that the customers have no knowledge about the problems with this brand. These locks need a QR code on their packages directing customers to this video.
murphy's law: hmmm im at a delema here.....ruin LPL's day or *stops while hearing the dreaded click on one* um like i said masterlock your day is ruined.
I taught myself how to pick locks using a bent paper clip back when I was in college and was working overnight security at a building on campus. (They didn’t give me keys to most of the interior doors in the building, but faculty were always coming in late at night and asking me if I could let them into their office or classroom because they forgot their keys. It was easier to just pick the lock open than to have to deal with an irate professor who was mad at ME because they forgot to bring their own keys…) I’d sit at the front desk and practice on various padlocks I’d find around the front office. That was more than 30 years ago. My point? I haven’t purchased or used ANY product from MasterLock since then.
I call this Bean Counter Management. Decisions made based on short term financial considerations. I’m 72 and have been an engineer for 50 years. I’ve seen many companies elevate finance experts to top management, they usually fail. If you’re trying to run a technology company you should select a technologist to run it.
Technologists... "Don't have business skills" is what companies say... but they know to surround themselves with those who have the skills and would want to work on the long game, but shareholders would not be happy short-term, as they revamp to make happy employees who make top quality products which might cost a little more, but are better made, and last longer... instead of being cheaply made to get short-term profit, and pissing off the consumers, who then take their business elsewhere, and have to find new customers.
Yet Master Lock is a very successful company though, isn't it? I would imagine that the average person on the street has a good opinion about their locks. Maybe the company decided it doesn't matter if a few locksport enthusiasts don't regard them highly. They just focus on giving an appearance of quality, and the average person won't know any better. I hope you are right that this strategy will fail in the long run though.
I have had contact with them through my management position at the YMCA and to say they are a 100% profit driven company with no regard for its customers is the understatement of the century!
@@Phenix19 Something getting stolen wouldn't be enough. There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that a court would hold a lock company liable because their lock got defeated, unless it could be proven that it was defeated in a manner in which the lock company claimed it could not be defeated (and even then it's iffy. I doubt a lock advertised as pick-proof getting picked would be grounds for a successful lawsuit). If as a lock company you could be held liable for your lock being defeated, then it would not be possible to run a successful lock company, because any lock can be defeated, if in no other way then at least just by brute force. You'd be sued shortly after selling your first lock.
Where in the law does it say that you are not allowed to make a faulty lock? All locks can be picked, this one is just a bit easier. All locks are faulty.
...*googles to see if that's been done* well at least they have yet to be defeated by produce. Grats, masterlock. You are less shit than soviet locks... which if you've seen any other soviet stuff you'll know that's a low bar. (there's a soviet lock that CAN be picked by jamming a carrot into it if you're confused about my comment)
A lawyer who's familiar with lock picking should push some legal paperwork to MasterLock to get their attention. I'm not sure if any such lawyers exist.
If Masterlock is ever at fault for some heinous crime, I wonder if LPL would be the lawyer to file the class action suit in civil court or go on record as an Expert Witness if it was criminal court.
@@2xtreem4u Oh no, with the markup on these kinds of things, having a significant number of the current lock owners buy a new one would be a huge boon to them. They tend to make those percent-off coupons last longer. "We're so sorry you're spending more money with us to solve the problem we caused. We learned our lesson."
It would be funny if they try to attack his credibility and he just picks all the locks they made in the last 10 years right in front of them in the court room using a simple method anyone can do in just a couple of minutes.
In Australia the consumer group Choice holds an annual Shonky Awards ceremony for consumer products that fall a long way short of expectations. Masterlock appear to be a worthy candidate
Since I started watching your videos I have thrown away any Masterlock I owned which was thankfully only 2 and were rarely used. I now purchase only locks you have given a good review to. I appreciate you reviewing these locks and I am saddened that a well known lock company is continuing to be negligent and dangerous for consumers at large.
He doesn't realize how stupid he actually is. He complains that the locks are bad, but then he buys them himself. Get it into your head that as long as you keep buying faulty locks they are not going to change.
It's to be expected these days. If you are a customer and purchase a product or a service from large wealthy companies, you can expect to be of less importance to them than the shareholders.
@shawbrosthe only way to get major retailers to stop buying and selling, is if customers stop paying. It's always worked on supply and demand. If there's a demand, even for crap products, there will be a supply. Really we need more lockpickers and enthusiasts. So we can stop relying on security through obscurity.
Retailers don't care about the quality. What you don't realize is the stores charge the manufacturer for shelf space. Masterlock is paying to be on a shelf and the retailer profits from it even with no sales. It's also why you see less of other brands. Masterlock outbid the shelf space and takes away consumer options. Any large company can win If they are willing to outpay for the shelf space of all of their competitors Locks is 1 of the few industries where master lock is the type of company that can completely dominate their shelf space.Other industry's have a lot More competition. The only way this could ever change is if enough consumers stopped buying master locks to the point where master lock couldn't afford to outbid the other competition.This entire situation is due to the ignorance of the average consumer.
It seems like reaching out to Lowe's or other retailers might be a way of exerting pressure on Master Lock, if they could be convinced to remove them from their inventory.
This is starting to sound like wilful Criminal Negligence combined with false advertising, which opens them up to lawsuits from Trading Standards agencies, at least assuming that America has similar laws to the UK over advertising claims.
@@brandonsteele2826 Nobody is putting padlocks on things that have exposed entry points like windows, though. Padlocks and pucklocks get put on things like sheds, storage trailers, etc.
Of course. If they just wrote those things on there, they would be quality claims. So if it turned out the lock didn't have particularly good cut resistance, that would be bad. But it can still have the "Best cut resistance" trademark on the package.
if it is cheap enough to fix a problem, corporate will refuse to fix it with the excuse of needing to make the fix to millions of units..... Heard that excuse with Remington before....
This is why I use a Master lock to keep the wind from blowing my gate open. I'm pretty sure the wind isn't going to come armed with a comb pick or piece of aluminum can, and if I want to open the gate I have multiple options at my disposal, even if I lose the key.
My recommendation to anyone using this system is to attention on the internal deadbolt, so the locks have to be removed in a certain sequence meaning you have at least three of these types of locks on any given door with different tensions
"As a big security company, we only recommend locks from Master Lock to all our clients to ensure easy and fast access in case of a lost key. The time and money aquiring and picking an actually secure lock costs is way more than what these locks usually protect."
How do companies like Master stay in business? In their marketing they have highlighted the lock is weather and cut resistant and has a hidden shackle. No claims that it is pick resistant although by using the word "resistant" allows them to state that, as it is relative term.
Not exactly. The mechanism does not even need picking. A comb is a universal key, not a pick. Whatever the write on the product cannot save them unless they write this is a decorarive lock with a universal key.
@@amaruqlonewolf3350 You would have thought, but watch a few episodes of the Lock Picking Lawyer and see how many locks that are marketed as "pick proof" are embarrassingly simple to bypass.
They stay in business because people buy their locks. It is that simple. It is the buyers who are stupid, not the company that makes money from people's stupidity. They are actually clever.
@@Cartilog-z4f But if you are going to do something why not do it properly? This channel often berates companies for producing locks that have flaws that are very easy and cheap to address, flaws should be embarrassing to a company whose business is security. Are they clever? As for consumer being stupid, if the marketing suggests it is a high security lock, why should it take this channel and an expert to expose them as being nothing of a sort, false advertising isn't right.
In Master Lock's defense, the package says it is "Better Weather Resistance" and "Best Cut Resistance". It does not say anything about being secure or anything along the lines of being pick proof or pick resistance.
The best part about this is that LPL posted a video (1434) showing exactly how this comb picking vulnerability happens and the relatively simple design fix needed to prevent it. Basically, if there's so much space above the pin stacks that both the driver pins and key pins can be shoved above the shear line with a comb pick, the entire core can freely turn as if the proper key had been used. If anyone on Master Lock's design team is watching LPL's videos they really have no excuse at this point.
@@jumpingtree7521as long as those that don't know the flaws keep buying their crap they won't change - how has their share price done in the 4 years since his first video he mentioned?
@@fifiwoof1969 And that sadly is the truth while the vast majority of people buying locks do not know about the abysmal security flaws in the Masterlock product and buy them then nothing changes.
I felt good about myself back in high school in 2005 where I lost the key to my locker and I had to pick the master lock using a large paper clip. Took roughly 8 minutes but I got through without any knowledge of how locks operate by straightening the paper clip and folding it in half twisting the two ends together. My guess is I maintained tension on the core by pressing the clip towards one side while twisting and essentially using a rake method. I might have got lucky with it but it at least learned that I could replicate it if needed and it became useful when people lose the keys to file cabinets. You can unlock the lock and remove the core of any file cabinet using the rake method with a paper clip and it only takes 20 seconds to do.
Thanks LPL. Masterlock sell many locks over here in the UK but I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Even though I have only picked a window lock a few times on a house I moved into (all legal) with no key with a wave rake I think I could give this high security lock a go and get it open.
I worked at 3 max security prisons as a locksmith, no padlock is unpickable, you can only make it harder with mushroom top/bottom pins, bumb key works well too.
Many years ago when i bought a house, the key to the house was a leverlock style lock, with, i think 30 different possible keys, that could all be bought in the local hardware store, so if you had these 30 keys, you would be guaranteed to gain entry. For this exact reason, when i took out an insurance to cover in case of theft, the papers from the insurance company started The insurance will NOT cover, if one of the following types of keys are used.....And then a picture of the exact key (Down to the number on my key, apparantly most used the same out of the 30). Maybe insurance companies should start stating "This insurance does not cover, if using a MasterLock to secure your belongings"
MasterLock is an example of how a company operates when they have a functional monopoly on the consumer market. If you go to just about any store that you'd expect to find locks, you'll find that about 60-80% of all locks on display are MasterLock. They've got some kind of sales exclusion contract or something because this isn't normal, but because of this, they don't have to be concerned with quality since you're basically forced to buy their product regardless.
Most hardware stores padlocks on the shelf are 90%+ masterlock or rebranded ml. Can't speak for one stop shop such as walmart or target. How many people are going to pay $130+ for a Paclock when there's a ml puck lock right next to it for less than $45 or in a generic brand for $20? Guessing the sales would be more than 10x in favor of the 2 lower cost locks. Hard for retailers to justify giving shelf space to brands like Paclock, Assa etc...
Rules of thumb on advertising; * If it's true, it doesn't need to be advertised. Word of mouth will be enough to promote a good restaurant, ... or lock company. * If it's advertised, it's likely not true. This works on people who are too trusting _and_ not inquisitive. Corollary; * If not enough people know, then entice them with _something else_ and the strong parts will sell themselves. Example: Promote happy hour or use coupons (sell at close to a loss), and if the food is good new customers will come at other times of the day and pay full price ($$, $$$, ...).
One of these days we will get a response from Master lock right? Been watching this channel for quite a few years now, a lot more than four and Master locks silence never ceases to amaze me.
I remember GM telling customers that it was their fault that their ignition system didn't work properly. In my mind this should be class action lawsuit territory. Companies like masterlock only care about the bottom line and high security=profits only
It’s a manufacturing/inventory issue, predominately. If you go to a store to buy a product like this, there’s no saying when it was manufactured. You might have purchased a lock that was manufactured on its initial run. Additionally, no one is going to pull a product that costs them pennies to manufacture over an issue with low to no liability.
To be fair, it might honestly have been fixed already( tho i doubt it). I work retail and a lot of our merchandise is ordered several years ahead. We're are still receiving product from the ship backup in 2019 covid. If it has been fixed tho, then the Bigger issue is the lack of a recall so they can push out new product sooner.
Why would retailers remove products that are going to outsell what you might consider more "secure" when then sales are going to be 10x or more for ml products compared to what you prefer to spend 3x-5x on? Retailers initiative is to sell products, not mandate a higher level of security for consumers.
My son just left for boot camp where he needed locks 🔐 for his stuff. Needless to say this was not the lock he took with him. Thank you for your tenacity Lock Picking Lawyer!!!
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This is starting to look like consumer fraud. Maybe it’s time for the Lawyering Lockpicker.
@@malvoliosf so unless somebody can demonstrate that they suffered some sort of material harm from Masterlock's negligence, there likely won't be sufficient standing for a lawsuit against them. Just selling a bad product isn't enough for a lawsuit
Careful, I said a similar thing a while back and got utterly flamed.
The consensus of opinion seemed to be that it was fine to sell products not fit for purpose, and it was 100% on the customer to do their own research.
Furthermore, when pointing out LPL's unique position of being a subject matter expert and a lawyer, and suggesting it might be nice if he documented a legal attempt to fix some of these problems, I was apparently being "entitled".
I like LPL, he seems like a decent chap, but from the outside it seems like he's profiting from the yt revenue, educating the next generation of thieves, all whilst selling them the tools to commit the crimes.
@@owensparks5013 Are we going back to information sharing means you are now complicit in the actions of others? Burn those books and forget history?
@@owensparks5013 Showing a method that has been known for 100 years is hardly "educating future thieves", If anything it will inform people to stay away from Masterlock products.
Masterlock could have easily fixed the issue, but they didn't.
What aggravates it even more is that Masterlock is advertizing these locks as "High security" when they're clearly not.
That sounds awfully close to fraud.
@@bigmike- Depends on your jurisdiction. Federal law gives little recourse to deceived consumers but under California law, consumers do have standing to sue over potentially misleading claims about product quality, like high security. In California, you don’t necessarily have to prove material harm like a break-in to take legal action. The Unfair Competition Law (UCL) and False Advertising Law (FAL) allow consumers to file lawsuits if they’ve suffered any economic loss due to misleading advertising. So, if Master Lock marketed the lock as “high-security” but it’s easily pickable, that could potentially be grounds for a claim if a consumer can show they bought it believing it was secure.
Also, under the Consumers Legal Remedies Act (CLRA), consumers can take action if they relied on false claims in making a purchase. So, in California, it’s not just about negligence or showing major harm-a disappointed consumer who bought the lock under the impression it was more secure than it is might have a case to ask for a refund or other remedies.
Masterlock's incompetence came in handy for me. I bought a house with a security cage around the air conditioner unit; however, the key to the Masterlock puck lock was not provided when I took possession of the house (apparently the previous owner did not have it either). One Covert Instruments order later, and my rudimentary lockpicking skills had the puck lock removed.
That's just how stupid it is. An amateur should not be able to open an actual lock that easily.
I bought myself a pick set and a master lock to practice on. I was disappointed when I realized how easy the wave rake was, to the point even that I gave the tools to my wife and my almost 70 year old mother in law, and they were both able to open the lock on the first try.
Feels great 😊
@@neosmagusYep. Some locks are easier than others. That's a fact. At the end of the day though, hardly any locks will prevent a determined person from getting in.
@@mattmarzula Missing the entire point of a lock -- even a freakin' castle wall with a moat won't prevent someone from *eventually* getting in. The point is to provide some level of delay and put other security measures on top of that, like lighting, police that actually care about theft, etc..
@@mattmarzula True, a significant benefit of locks is slowing down a thief thus increasing the risk of detection. A picker with time or a thief with destructive tools will not be kept out.
A Master key unlocks every lock
A Master lock is unlocked by every key
🤣🤣
And every pick, and comb, and even a piece of Redbull can.
Flawless logic
This joke never gets old. And it's... kinda sad.
Apply cold water to burned area
Clearly Master Lock is only staying in business because LockPickingLawyer keeps buying their locks. 😉
Plot twist..😆
:-D
Must be a small company 😂
Now THAT is funny!
I just think that general public doesn't know what a good lock should be. They see "max security" and other fancy words, decent price and sturdy look - they buy it. And it's not that often people get robbed or picked to think that their lock is crap. TBH, I don't even know if my apartament lock is good or not. I don't know the manufacturer. Feel more safe by the fact that they'd have to pass 3 doors to get to me and our building is under private security, so it should keep most thieves away, they won't go for a risky target if are unshure of potential profit.
The scary thing is, it looks like you are using the key with this attack. So you could do this in view of others, and people would think you had the key.
Very true
That's what gets me. I feel like I could tell if someone is using a turner and a single pick pretty easily. But comb picking just looks like someone using their key.
Also it wouldn't be hard to manufacture a comb in a shape of an actual key, so the suspicion would be even smaller.
Even if you showed someone the comb, it still looks enough like a key for the general public. (Weird looking lock,weird looking key)
@@RhinoBarbarian even if you could successfully identify that someone is picking a lock, what exactly are you going to do about it? "I left my keys in my other pants" or "i'm a locksmith doing this job for my friend who lost his keys" are both statements that you couldn't really contest in the moment without some other supporting suspicious behavior.
Sure, you could call the police and attempt a "citizens arrest" while you wait for the cops to arrive, but if you're wrong, it's YOUR ass that ends up in jail when the person in question presses charges for wrongful arrest. Especially since the 911 dispatcher will almost certainly advise you not to get personally involved.
They'll only change it if people stop buying it. That's how corporations work. They don't serve the customers. They serve the stockholders.
Exactly, and if they do change it, then the price will go up, and people will stop buying them, because they only buy their locks because they are cheap. People who want proper locks don't buy Master Locks in the first place. If I were Master Lock I wouldn't change a thing. I would just sit back and be glad that people buy my cheap garbage.
it's basic economics. why pay to make or change something when what you have no is selling? products used to be better when our companies were run by engineers and people who were interested in the thing they were making and also strove to make it better. now they're run by MBA's.
But this also only works in an actual "free" market, where competition is forced to exist to some degree AND the consumer needs all available information.
Most of todays markets arent "free" by many means, because information is obscured or you arent actually "free" to choose.
Or if they're getting sued for failing to address an issue that was brought to their attention years ago and not telling their customers their locks don't actually protect anything.
Precisely. And it is the same ethos that drives United Healthcare. This is why people need to recognize this is not just a problem restricted to the health care system, but a systemic problem that touches every aspect of society. Maybe Marx wasn't right that the working class is Capitalism's grave diggers, but he was certainly right that Capitalism will bury mankind.
You know it's masterlock classic when LPL opens 3 locks in 15 seconds
with the 100 yr old tool too LOL
Just have to look at the length of the video to know it's a masterlock lol
Made in America 🇺🇸
No no, these are the Magnum and Pro series. They are better than the standard locks. If you watch closely, it took LPL 0.3 seconds longer to open.
While he only picked each lock once, I do not think it was a fluke.
He’s sounding as disappointed as if his daughter had just brought home Masterlock’s chief product designer for Thanksgiving.
This is just gross negligence at this point.
It started there. At this point, it's clear fraud.
I don't believe it. It must be a conscious decision.
Unless the company is run by amoeba and other without any kind of brain whatsoever.
It seems like it's intentional.
Now if the insurance companies starts to deny claims where locks with this flaw have been involved we might see some change.
Even better - cancel insurances for Masterlock and management.
Make MASTER lock better again!
They don't care, people still buy them
If only there was a lawyer that specialized in lock picking that would start a class action lawsuit.
If Masterlock added a couple more security pins to its locks they'd be almost as secure as those transparent practice locks.
they’re too busy putting the security pins in _plastic_ LOTO locks for some reason. those aren’t even security locks, they don’t need the pins, and the plastic body negates them anyway. they’re safety locks.
Was actually thinking about getting one of those practice locks. I haven't done stuff like this in years and it's only like 10 bucks on his site.
@@JohnDoe-pk2hs I'm not sure it's worth your time. The pin diameters are too small for the bores on the plastic body ones I have tried, (not from his site) such that you can use your turner to open them without picking any pins. A cutaway metal body, if you are willing to pay more or have it made by a machinist, would be more realistic.
Just get a Masterlock number 3.@@JohnDoe-pk2hs
@@slipperynickels the Loto Locks are very smart: They are so hard to pick, that you rather destroy the lock then pick it.
Destruction of a LOTO lock when a key is reported lost is totally reasonable.
A LOTO lock that can be removed and closed again with a simple tool would not serve its purpose.
I see the funny reality that master locks are either indestructible, but easy to bypass or hard to bypass but easily destroyed, but the LOTO Locks ain't the problem here.
It really is shameful, to be polite. Just shows what utter contempt they have for their customers.
Yep. It's all greed at this point. They MUST KNOW they are selling an inferior product. They just don't care because the money keeps coming.
It's really sad that the customers have no knowledge about the problems with this brand. These locks need a QR code on their packages directing customers to this video.
@@nismo2070 Yes. It is called business. If you could make a lot of money selling cheap garbage, wouldn't you do that?
@@Cartilog-z4f not everyone is content with being a scam artist
0:52 "...and prepared to praise the company for responding"
Masterlock? That'll be the day lol
murphy's law: hmmm im at a delema here.....ruin LPL's day or *stops while hearing the dreaded click on one* um like i said masterlock your day is ruined.
I taught myself how to pick locks using a bent paper clip back when I was in college and was working overnight security at a building on campus. (They didn’t give me keys to most of the interior doors in the building, but faculty were always coming in late at night and asking me if I could let them into their office or classroom because they forgot their keys. It was easier to just pick the lock open than to have to deal with an irate professor who was mad at ME because they forgot to bring their own keys…) I’d sit at the front desk and practice on various padlocks I’d find around the front office. That was more than 30 years ago.
My point? I haven’t purchased or used ANY product from MasterLock since then.
I call this Bean Counter Management. Decisions made based on short term financial considerations. I’m 72 and have been an engineer for 50 years. I’ve seen many companies elevate finance experts to top management, they usually fail. If you’re trying to run a technology company you should select a technologist to run it.
Exactly what happened with Boeing
@ precisely correct
Accountants, they know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Technologists... "Don't have business skills" is what companies say... but they know to surround themselves with those who have the skills and would want to work on the long game, but shareholders would not be happy short-term, as they revamp to make happy employees who make top quality products which might cost a little more, but are better made, and last longer...
instead of being cheaply made to get short-term profit, and pissing off the consumers, who then take their business elsewhere, and have to find new customers.
Yet Master Lock is a very successful company though, isn't it? I would imagine that the average person on the street has a good opinion about their locks. Maybe the company decided it doesn't matter if a few locksport enthusiasts don't regard them highly. They just focus on giving an appearance of quality, and the average person won't know any better. I hope you are right that this strategy will fail in the long run though.
I have had contact with them through my management position at the YMCA and to say they are a 100% profit driven company with no regard for its customers is the understatement of the century!
Fixing the lock would result in damaging the brand. You see, your comb is the master key.
My sides😂
It's Almost as if Master Lock is Intentionally Keeping the "Skelton Key" Option alive after All those Decades!
Wouldn't it be as simple as longer follower pins?
Ah I see, master lock is continuing as before, to make the covert instruments set effective.
Who knew!
I feel like the LPL is shorting Master Lock stocks...
Please file a class action lawsuit! We need to be amused!
A lawsuit only works if there are damages to be compensated, e.g. something gets stolen
@@Phenix19 Something getting stolen wouldn't be enough. There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that a court would hold a lock company liable because their lock got defeated, unless it could be proven that it was defeated in a manner in which the lock company claimed it could not be defeated (and even then it's iffy. I doubt a lock advertised as pick-proof getting picked would be grounds for a successful lawsuit).
If as a lock company you could be held liable for your lock being defeated, then it would not be possible to run a successful lock company, because any lock can be defeated, if in no other way then at least just by brute force. You'd be sued shortly after selling your first lock.
Where in the law does it say that you are not allowed to make a faulty lock? All locks can be picked, this one is just a bit easier. All locks are faulty.
People need to start posting the lockpicking lawyer video for every Twitter post and they do about one of their locks.
Someone needs to put a laptop playing lockpicking lawyer videos in the lock isle of HomeDepot and Lowes
@@markmuir7338the laptop could be stolen and knowing those companies, they would secure the laptop with a masterlock.
Or start selling a Masterlock Opener Tool that is as cheap and cheap-looking as possible.
Maybe instead of just LPL videos, make your own ones so it doesn't look like just this single genius can open these locks.
As long as they sell, corporations wont care if their products are junk.
Selling something branded as “high security” with this known flaw could lead them open to law suits against them for any losses .
Notice all of the apparent quality claims on the package are trade marks, not actual quality claims. 😁
No bro, it's like " Free range egg", "Animal Friendly", "Harm free"
it's just a brand
I have no word to properly describe what I feel about the above 2 comments...
Being about to trademark and brand words like that should be illegal...
@@BrunoHenrique-bg8kjit's "High Security", as in you must be high if you think this is secure
they buy insurance if you want then to change you need to inform the insurance company they use.
Thank you for continuing to educate those interested. Shame Masterlock isn’t interested.
Why, it's almost as if that lock could be picked with a carrot.
Carrot-lock is clearly superior to comb-master.
The only challenge would be making sure the carrot slice doesn't break in the lock.
...*googles to see if that's been done* well at least they have yet to be defeated by produce. Grats, masterlock. You are less shit than soviet locks... which if you've seen any other soviet stuff you'll know that's a low bar. (there's a soviet lock that CAN be picked by jamming a carrot into it if you're confused about my comment)
There's only one way to find out. We must demand the carrot test.
@@stonefox2546 frozen carrot
A lawyer who's familiar with lock picking should push some legal paperwork to MasterLock to get their attention. I'm not sure if any such lawyers exist.
If Masterlock is ever at fault for some heinous crime, I wonder if LPL would be the lawyer to file the class action suit in civil court or go on record as an Expert Witness if it was criminal court.
The class action suit will get everyone a coupon for 15% off of any Masterlock lock.
@@shawbros and last date to use it is a week after they are sent out
@@2xtreem4u Oh no, with the markup on these kinds of things, having a significant number of the current lock owners buy a new one would be a huge boon to them. They tend to make those percent-off coupons last longer. "We're so sorry you're spending more money with us to solve the problem we caused. We learned our lesson."
How does an expert witness testify while only showing his hands?
It would be funny if they try to attack his credibility and he just picks all the locks they made in the last 10 years right in front of them in the court room using a simple method anyone can do in just a couple of minutes.
In Australia the consumer group Choice holds an annual Shonky Awards ceremony for consumer products that fall a long way short of expectations. Masterlock appear to be a worthy candidate
Since I started watching your videos I have thrown away any Masterlock I owned which was thankfully only 2 and were rarely used. I now purchase only locks you have given a good review to. I appreciate you reviewing these locks and I am saddened that a well known lock company is continuing to be negligent and dangerous for consumers at large.
LPL must be the market for these locks! He bought 4. Thanks for sharing!
He doesn't realize how stupid he actually is. He complains that the locks are bad, but then he buys them himself. Get it into your head that as long as you keep buying faulty locks they are not going to change.
It's to be expected these days. If you are a customer and purchase a product or a service from large wealthy companies, you can expect to be of less importance to them than the shareholders.
Corporations don't listen. Wow~! What a shock~! I listened! No More Master Locks! Thanks
are you a corporation?
Maybe if all the major retailers stopped carrying their products they might change.
Go tell them to stop.
@shawbrosthe only way to get major retailers to stop buying and selling, is if customers stop paying. It's always worked on supply and demand. If there's a demand, even for crap products, there will be a supply. Really we need more lockpickers and enthusiasts. So we can stop relying on security through obscurity.
Retailers don't care about the quality. What you don't realize is the stores charge the manufacturer for shelf space. Masterlock is paying to be on a shelf and the retailer profits from it even with no sales. It's also why you see less of other brands. Masterlock outbid the shelf space and takes away consumer options.
Any large company can win If they are willing to outpay for the shelf space of all of their competitors Locks is 1 of the few industries where master lock is the type of company that can completely dominate their shelf space.Other industry's have a lot More competition.
The only way this could ever change is if enough consumers stopped buying master locks to the point where master lock couldn't afford to outbid the other competition.This entire situation is due to the ignorance of the average consumer.
Maybe if ordinary people stopped bying them.
It seems like reaching out to Lowe's or other retailers might be a way of exerting pressure on Master Lock, if they could be convinced to remove them from their inventory.
"The illusion of safety and security" -George Carlin
Kind of like the TSA
Masterlock is telling you that they don't care. And that's what us, the customers, should do with them too.
4 years is WILD
This is starting to sound like wilful Criminal Negligence combined with false advertising, which opens them up to lawsuits from Trading Standards agencies, at least assuming that America has similar laws to the UK over advertising claims.
People should just stop feeding Masterlock money. They'll change their products to be better if their bottom line starts taking a hit.
Only most people don’t know Masterlock is trash.
Look at LPL buying all those master locks. He is responsible for at least 10% of their income.
@@brandonsteele2826 Nobody is putting padlocks on things that have exposed entry points like windows, though. Padlocks and pucklocks get put on things like sheds, storage trailers, etc.
This channel has about 4.5 million subscribers. That leaves plenty of unsuspecting customers out there.
@@brandonsteele2826 I'd argue that's the exception, though, rather than the rule. Most aren't constructed that way, you know?
It's negligence and consumer fraud. Like most products in the world.
They've trademarked "cut resistance" and "weather resistance" ???
Of course. If they just wrote those things on there, they would be quality claims. So if it turned out the lock didn't have particularly good cut resistance, that would be bad. But it can still have the "Best cut resistance" trademark on the package.
Better weather resistance and best cut resistance.
They had to add a qualifier because those two terms on their own are too common.
Well, it's not like they can brag about their "pick resistance".
Also 'carrot resistant'
@@melbar "Excellent carrot resistance" (TM)
Ouch. Strongest words I've heard from LPL.
In the time I was waiting for the water to boil to make coffee he picked four locks and a made a video. 👍
if it is cheap enough to fix a problem, corporate will refuse to fix it with the excuse of needing to make the fix to millions of units..... Heard that excuse with Remington before....
Completely unacceptable! 😞
This is why I use a Master lock to keep the wind from blowing my gate open. I'm pretty sure the wind isn't going to come armed with a comb pick or piece of aluminum can, and if I want to open the gate I have multiple options at my disposal, even if I lose the key.
They should really produce a range of chocolate teapots, they’d excel at it
My recommendation to anyone using this system is to attention on the internal deadbolt, so the locks have to be removed in a certain sequence meaning you have at least three of these types of locks on any given door with different tensions
It is always a good day when LPL uploads a new video
Bot
@@gwaeron8630 No?
"As a big security company, we only recommend locks from Master Lock to all our clients to ensure easy and fast access in case of a lost key. The time and money aquiring and picking an actually secure lock costs is way more than what these locks usually protect."
There is no consumer protection or antitrust enforcement in this country.
And what little we do have, is about to be dismantled.
@@briandudzik8407 Sadly, true.
Wait, how does this fall under antitrust law? Masterlock hardly has a monopoly on this market.
Makes me think that there is some sort of monopoly going on
How do companies like Master stay in business?
In their marketing they have highlighted the lock is weather and cut resistant and has a hidden shackle. No claims that it is pick resistant although by using the word "resistant" allows them to state that, as it is relative term.
Not exactly. The mechanism does not even need picking. A comb is a universal key, not a pick. Whatever the write on the product cannot save them unless they write this is a decorarive lock with a universal key.
I mean you'd at the very least EXPECT a lock to be pick resistant without the company claiming it to be, wouldn't you?
@@amaruqlonewolf3350 You would have thought, but watch a few episodes of the Lock Picking Lawyer and see how many locks that are marketed as "pick proof" are embarrassingly simple to bypass.
They stay in business because people buy their locks. It is that simple. It is the buyers who are stupid, not the company that makes money from people's stupidity. They are actually clever.
@@Cartilog-z4f But if you are going to do something why not do it properly? This channel often berates companies for producing locks that have flaws that are very easy and cheap to address, flaws should be embarrassing to a company whose business is security. Are they clever? As for consumer being stupid, if the marketing suggests it is a high security lock, why should it take this channel and an expert to expose them as being nothing of a sort, false advertising isn't right.
Bravo!
Thanks for following up!
Definitely overt!!!
Master Lock's master plan: keep making horrible locks so that LPL will keep buying them for his videos. He's their only customer!
“Locks only keep honest people out” -masterlock
It's almost like a lawyer whos a expert lock picker should start a class action lawsuit for intentional product flaws.
Consumer law in Australia allows for an item to be returned to point of sale when, "not fit for purpose". These locks may be the perfect example.
1:22 he did it only once, probably just a fluke.
I don't think even a carrot could open it that fast!
It will take a Class Action Lawsuit to force Master Lock to correct the flaw. You have to get the attention of the Bean Counters.
A class action suit will get everyone a coupon for 15% off of any Masterlock lock.
You could start by not buying their locks. To ge eligible for a class action you would first have to be a customer
Sadly if you look at the terms and conditions, by purchasing one of their locks, you agreed to binding arbitration, and cannot sue them in court. 😂
In Master Lock's defense, the package says it is "Better Weather Resistance" and "Best Cut Resistance". It does not say anything about being secure or anything along the lines of being pick proof or pick resistance.
The best part about this is that LPL posted a video (1434) showing exactly how this comb picking vulnerability happens and the relatively simple design fix needed to prevent it. Basically, if there's so much space above the pin stacks that both the driver pins and key pins can be shoved above the shear line with a comb pick, the entire core can freely turn as if the proper key had been used. If anyone on Master Lock's design team is watching LPL's videos they really have no excuse at this point.
They use this oversized core in about half of their locks as it saves them money.
I am pretty sure that nearly all people working in the Masterlock security Department watch the LPL Videos. They just really do not care.
@@jumpingtree7521I disagree, I reckon it's deliberate troll of him, his viewers and general "ethical" lock picking community.
@@jumpingtree7521as long as those that don't know the flaws keep buying their crap they won't change - how has their share price done in the 4 years since his first video he mentioned?
@@fifiwoof1969 And that sadly is the truth while the vast majority of people buying locks do not know about the abysmal security flaws in the Masterlock product and buy them then nothing changes.
I felt good about myself back in high school in 2005 where I lost the key to my locker and I had to pick the master lock using a large paper clip. Took roughly 8 minutes but I got through without any knowledge of how locks operate by straightening the paper clip and folding it in half twisting the two ends together. My guess is I maintained tension on the core by pressing the clip towards one side while twisting and essentially using a rake method. I might have got lucky with it but it at least learned that I could replicate it if needed and it became useful when people lose the keys to file cabinets. You can unlock the lock and remove the core of any file cabinet using the rake method with a paper clip and it only takes 20 seconds to do.
just witnessed 4 consecutive flukes. feel sick to my stomach.
Statistically it had to happen.
Thanks LPL. Masterlock sell many locks over here in the UK but I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Even though I have only picked a window lock a few times on a house I moved into (all legal) with no key with a wave rake I think I could give this high security lock a go and get it open.
wow!! :O
i hope people stop buying master lock...not only to send the company a message but for their own protection!!
I'm not going another year without a covert companion! Top tier YT content maker as always!
It's just a convenience feature for the user - if you lose your keys you can just jam whatever into the lock and open it 😆
But can you pick it with a carrot?
They don't care and won't care until it starts costing them money, or big box stores start refusing to carry them.
Stick a carrot in it. You won't.
YES! The 🥕
I worked at 3 max security prisons as a locksmith, no padlock is unpickable, you can only make it harder with mushroom top/bottom pins, bumb key works well too.
LPL: COMB THE LOCK
MasterLock: We ain’t done shit!
Ludicrous speed
Many years ago when i bought a house, the key to the house was a leverlock style lock, with, i think 30 different possible keys, that could all be bought in the local hardware store, so if you had these 30 keys, you would be guaranteed to gain entry.
For this exact reason, when i took out an insurance to cover in case of theft, the papers from the insurance company started
The insurance will NOT cover, if one of the following types of keys are used.....And then a picture of the exact key (Down to the number on my key, apparantly most used the same out of the 30).
Maybe insurance companies should start stating "This insurance does not cover, if using a MasterLock to secure your belongings"
What about locks so insecure they can be opened using a carrot? 🥕🥕🥕🥕🥕 Patiently waiting...
Pointlessjoke. The lock itself is made of spraypaintet veggies.
It's been done. Someone else did it. Move on.
My bet he'll hold off until April Fools and then discuss various long shaped veggies.
@@Alacritous Did LPL do it? No? Kthxbai then!
@@gcbrain2933 Actually, Masterlocks are normally very robust. If you need to open one with a bolt cutter or hammer, you might be in for a fight.
no wonder they don't change something. They are a huge success this way. I mean you love these locks so much you bought even 5 of them!
1:30 and 4 locks picked already. Masterlock standard. XD
Looks like LPL is looking to incite a lawsuit. Time to get some popcorn on the ready.
MasterLock is an example of how a company operates when they have a functional monopoly on the consumer market. If you go to just about any store that you'd expect to find locks, you'll find that about 60-80% of all locks on display are MasterLock. They've got some kind of sales exclusion contract or something because this isn't normal, but because of this, they don't have to be concerned with quality since you're basically forced to buy their product regardless.
60% is a monopoly?
@@soccerguy2433 When the other 40% may as well be "store brand"? Yeah. It is.
Most hardware stores padlocks on the shelf are 90%+ masterlock or rebranded ml. Can't speak for one stop shop such as walmart or target.
How many people are going to pay $130+ for a Paclock when there's a ml puck lock right next to it for less than $45 or in a generic brand for $20? Guessing the sales would be more than 10x in favor of the 2 lower cost locks. Hard for retailers to justify giving shelf space to brands like Paclock, Assa etc...
Texas Instruments:
"Well, ... see for yourself" XD
They have no shame
No, but they make good money.
Rules of thumb on advertising;
* If it's true, it doesn't need to be advertised.
Word of mouth will be enough to promote a good restaurant, ... or lock company.
* If it's advertised, it's likely not true.
This works on people who are too trusting _and_ not inquisitive.
Corollary;
* If not enough people know, then entice them with _something else_ and the strong parts will sell themselves.
Example: Promote happy hour or use coupons (sell at close to a loss), and if the food is good new customers will come at other times of the day and pay full price ($$, $$$, ...).
Yes, but can you open them with a carrot?
It’s a shame there’s no way to apply results from independent security audits to the package labeling.
Here in the UK, they'd be prosecuted for consumer fraud.
You can buy these in the UK.
@@jonny5alive123 Report them to trading standards if they carry the same claims as in the US.
One of these days we will get a response from Master lock right? Been watching this channel for quite a few years now, a lot more than four and Master locks silence never ceases to amaze me.
"Higher security" combined with "Master Lock" is definitely an oxymoron at this point.
I remember GM telling customers that it was their fault that their ignition system didn't work properly.
In my mind this should be class action lawsuit territory. Companies like masterlock only care about the bottom line and high security=profits only
I think it is a good thing that you can buy replacement locks so you don't have to throw away working keys when you lose your lock.
lol--yes!
My man just came out and said "I'm the idiot for thinking they'd be better" 😳😬🤣
Just change the profile of the keyway. That would help a bit. Come on Masterlock, you're getting destroyed out there.
It’s a manufacturing/inventory issue, predominately. If you go to a store to buy a product like this, there’s no saying when it was manufactured. You might have purchased a lock that was manufactured on its initial run. Additionally, no one is going to pull a product that costs them pennies to manufacture over an issue with low to no liability.
"Starting to look like intentional conduct" is lawyer speak for, "We'll be seeing each other in court very soon." 👏👏👏👏
Go get 'em!
Once they start getting sued for negligence and held liable for consumer theft losses, they’ll change it.
Last time I was this early Masterlock were still a quality product
at least you're not lying about never being early
@@bloviatingbeluga8553 You got it
I fully agree with your assessment.
How they're still selling this garbage is beyond me, apparently you just need a fancy name
And stupid buyers.
To be fair, it might honestly have been fixed already( tho i doubt it). I work retail and a lot of our merchandise is ordered several years ahead. We're are still receiving product from the ship backup in 2019 covid. If it has been fixed tho, then the Bigger issue is the lack of a recall so they can push out new product sooner.
At least he didn't use a carrot
If Masterlock won't respond, its about time the retailers pay attention and actively remove the products!
Why would retailers remove products that are going to outsell what you might consider more "secure" when then sales are going to be 10x or more for ml products compared to what you prefer to spend 3x-5x on? Retailers initiative is to sell products, not mandate a higher level of security for consumers.
My son just left for boot camp where he needed locks 🔐 for his stuff. Needless to say this was not the lock he took with him. Thank you for your tenacity Lock Picking Lawyer!!!
Good luck to your son and thanks to him for putting his butt on the line for us! 🇺🇸
@ I will pass it along! ☺️
Thank you for sharing!