Do Cheap Pots and Caps and Switches Ruin Your Tone ?
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- Here is why you should upgrade your pots and caps and switches
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Dylan Talks Tone Recieves Commision From Some Of These Links
Ha, I don't need cheap parts to ruin my tone, I can do that myself no matter what. It's a gift.
You’re not alone! Hang in there!
You’ve come to the right channel because we love to talk about tone
Right on.
I’m a multi instrumental tone killer!
Ditto!
Always remember this. Volume and Tone controls are only bleeding signal to ground. You are setting up High pass and low pass filters (for tone controls) that is it.
electrons do not care what your caps are made of.. only the cap values.. and also remember you are dealing with very low voltages and amprages.. so you don't need big stuff.
NOW the feel of the pot is important. and cheap switches will crap out but caps.. anybody who spends extra on 'bumble bees' or 'orange drops' I have some ocean front property in Utah to sell you
Agreed…there are so many guitar myths out there that people buy into
Yep.
I notice more difference in different kinds of wire than caps. "Orange Drops" are a joke. They sound identical to what you just replaced . The only caps that sound different are the old Russian PIO (paper in oil) caps, they are "looser" sounding, and may not be what you want. Probably because of tolerances being out the window. "Bumblebee" caps are only good for restoration.
Remember, that stuff was taken out for a reason.
lol wire
I use Mojotone Vitamin T caps because I think that they look cool when I open up the control cavity.
Man, thanks a lot for spreading a little bit of light in to this black holes we guitar player can fall into and lose our selves in stupid "better tone" search.
I saw this amazing player in Nashville who only played cheap Squires and his tone was amazing. He sounded great.
Was it Jack Pearson maybe?
@@JohnnyVictor666 was going to ask the same question...I wonder if he just upgrades pots in his Squiers?
I appreciate this info.
I've learned a lot of this on my own through trial and error and only use quality switches and pots. Caps, not so much. I went through the capacitor jungle with my Strats. I tried the tropical fish, bumblebee, Russian PiO, orang drops, mustards, and a $5 per billion pack of Chineseium chicklets. I checked the values of all caps tested and picked the ones that matched the values I wanted , and in the end I left the chicklets installed because they were the last ones tested.
I know there are people who swear they get more mojo from a PiO than an orange drop. I really wanted to hear it myself but it never happened. I can shape my tone better by using different strings.
Maybe some of them have PiO's that have already drifted in value, so when they compare against an original spec (of either type), they're going to hear a difference. If they replaced it with one of the same _actual_ value rather than the same _nominal_ value, the difference may well vanish.
@@mal2ksc I can't swear to this, but it's my opinion that since all old electronics drift over time, I think it's the unique interaction of those components that produce the mojo that people seek.
Loving the pocket-knife wall in the new digs. Congrats.
I'm very surprised that there was no mention of the pot tapers (Log or Linear) as this will produce a completely different frequency response change as you rotate the knob between the maximum and minimum positions. Or indeed whether you should use Linear or Log pots for volume, as well as tone controls. Also, the 'loading' effect on the pickups being reduced if you use 500k (or even 1 Meg) pots instead of the 250k pots normally used with single-coil pickups.
The first thing I thought when he was complaining about the signal going down straight away. Taper and value, not the pot quality. The pot quality in my opinion should only really change the feel.
One of the best videos on passive components and tone I've ever seen. Well done & subscribed.
Dylan, I really enjoy your videos because you go deep into the subject. It's easy for everyone to say that cheap pots ruin your tone (like a lot of people say) but you go deep and explain why, what are the differences, how it works, and which thing does what.
Keep doing amazing videos man.
Man, every time I watch your channel it gets me more and more stoked about some of the mods and tune-ups I'm preparing to do (just had to fix a flooded basement last summer first .. lol)
Thanks for sharing. The knife holder on the wall is very nice
Today I learned that guitar pots are basically like my old slot car pots I used to fix. Dylan. Thanks for explaining these concepts in a way a dumb guy like me can understand. I always used cts pots because I figured they were more of a “premium” product without knowing why. Now I feel more affirmed that better quality pots and electronics are important.
Great news that you've added more features to your website! Thanks for the upgrade news!
I never knew about the differences between the electronics and you video was excellent, thank you.
Informative as usual 👍
Thanks for another great informative video.
I had a guitar shop that let me test bulk CTS pots. There was a wide range of OHMs. I’d pick out the pots closest to the advertised value. All CTS pots are made it Taiwan.
I just found your channel and watched several of your presentations. I love your perspective. I can actually relate, because I'm not a musician. I play guitar as catharsis. I'm really a technical engineer (OJT) that functions as a telephony/IT/comm troubleshooter with a background in radio electronics. I kinda play guitar and fix broken machines to keep myself from punching assholes in the face. Umm... I take the fights to where they're manageable and I don't get my ass kicked. (Fights ain't always righteous, sometimes they're just a matter of opinion.) Kinda why I like your truths.
Back to perspective, because you sparked my own thoughts. Before I made my first major amp purchase, I was blessed with advice to get a keyboard amp because of the built in range of tonality. I'm still satisfied and playing a 4 channel Roland keyboard amp that I bought for about $900 bucks 27 years ago. I sacrificed gain (acquired off-board pre-amped anyway) for texture, but each channel has its own volume and tone, and it doubles as a small PA, so I can play with friends from time to time and they don't have to drag all their equipment to my house. Combined with your explanations of pickup construction, coil-tap vs coil-split, and the nature of cheap pots and caps vs quality ones, something came to my tinkering mind that I never even thought of before.
Because amps and EQs basically have duplicate controls as the guitar itself, is it really necessary to have the attenuation properties of the pots and caps on the guitar? Given the properties of the pots and caps on amps and ancillary devices, such as pedals and EQs, have you ever thought about taking them out-of-the-equation and "straight-piping" the pickup signal to the phone port on the guitar? I know this would take away a lot of the on-the-fly changes, but personally I'm usually doing this with just the switch anyway and it could stay. There's minimal signal degradation through a switch and you could still have plenty of options with a 5-way or even a 3-way with a bridge bucker and neck single.
Anyway, just wanted to throw that atcha. I gotta figure out which one of my guitars I'm gonna tinker with when I get time. Great channel, Dude. Thanks..
Very informative! Thx!
Love This UA-cam Channel 100% 🎸🎶🎶 And Happy To Be A Member of DylanTalksTone Tribe...🎶 🎶
One correction. As long as capacitors and pots in a guitar aren’t defective, it’s inaccurate to say that they “suck tone”- they just bleed off some highs, and can also reduce output to a small extent. This isn’t a problem so much an opportunity for fine tuning. If you have a Tele with a hot, bright bridge pickup, you might want to smooth it out. In that instance, picking a pot that’s slightly on the low side and/or a capacitor on the high side might be just what the doctor ordered. If you want more volume and brightness, nudge the values in the opposite direction.
You’re definitely right, I’m fixing a Jazzmaster with a broken pot and decided to put two treble bleeds in with a three way switch as an option. Jazzmasters have 1 Meg pots and changing it to 500 K would make it sound darker.
You hit the nail on the head there Dylan. It's more about reliability than tone generally with parts.
With pots, it's all about the tolerances and taper (apart from the quality). Cheap will work, but may wear out quicker than a quality pot under extreme use. Most pots have a +/-10% tolerance which could mean for a 250K pot it could be between 225K-275k. As a volume pot, using a slightly lower value can suck some of those high frequencies away. Using a lower value for tone control, it just means you don't get as much range to turn down to (which probably isn't a big deal as a lot of guitarists don't use it anyway LOL). But it's not only $200 Squiers that get cheap pots. I bought an Electromatic Gretsch that had terrible cheap pots (that looked like knockoff CTS). Might as well put an on/off switch in there.
The only reason you'd want to use oil filled caps would be to keep a vintage instruments aesthetics. Other than that, it doesn't really matter what caps you use.
If you want a great import style switch get a Kaish. I bought one a about a month ago and the switch is built like a tank and smooth as well as quiet! And for the price you cannot beat them. Just as good as the Grigsby. Added bonus with them is the center lugs are already soldered together, and there are lugs for grounding on them.
Thanks Dylan, Could you discuss the taper difference between Borne and CTS? Also I don't see on your website where you can designate taper. Liniar vs Audio.
Pots come in different tolerance specifications, typically 20% for low cost pots. I go for 10% or better, preferably 5% but they really start to cost!!!
I just dropped by to get your take on the things that you talked about. Thanks
Awesome video. Love it when Dylan talks about capacitors and the little details
Very informative 🙏
You should get some barrel jacks on the page. Got a few rewire projects coming up and I’d love to buy my parts from you. Your YT has taught me so much I wanna give you the business for the parts, but I really need a barrel style jack for my Ibanez S series. Obviously imma still order everything else from you but I think that’s the one thing you don’t have on your site that would be a needed addition.
I spent much of the last decade making potentiometers, and I find it interesting how the guitar and audio industry can make more robust pots than aerospace. I measure RTs and do rough measurements of taper for pedals/guitar builds. Maybe show viewers what the real world effects of mismatched RT might sound like, how to use it to even out PU’s, the differences between audio taper n linear in vol or tone pots?
How interesting. NASA doesn't need quality pots because that deceitful outfit is a giant Disney studio, nobody is ever in one of their rockets and any real launch goes out into the Bermuda triangle. (Smile) Mike
I tend to agree about nasa, but what I’ve seen n done got nothing to do w nasa. Space isn’t real and neither are nukes tho, amiright?!
The new shop looks great
Hey! Could you guys make available an HSS upgrade kit with options for split coil + small pot to manage how much split? I have been trying to do this and I keep screwing it up lol. Would be nice to get one correctly done.
Geometry plays a part. The bigger pot has a bigger radius so it sweeps over a longer “racetrack”. That alone should give you a finer response.
I have a Squier Classic Vibe Tele I bought with the intent on modding to mid-50s specs with the dark circuit in the neck position, but I also want to run a mini humbucker. Would a 0.1 microfarad capacitor still have the same tone and vibe with the mini humbucker + 500k pot combination or would that need to be adjusted to get the same effect, especially for high gain application?
I'm just a layman when it comes to the topic of electronics. I want that mid 50s vibe, but I also want the mini humbucker level of output. Any and all help in understanding for my use case is highly appreciated
This was as good an explanation of the workings of a pot as I've seen. Not saying I ALWAYS agree with Dylan, but when he's right, he's the best!
Hey Dylan, have you ever tried the Qi jacks? I installed one in my 1996 Hamer Californian, wow, nicest, most solid jack I've ever come across and probably the most expensive. I prefer it because it's so solid, probably the last jack I'll ever put in the guitar. I'm looking to outfit all my other guitars with them as well.
Good info, much appreciated. Maybe a sound comparison could be a good idea down the line, same guitar, same strings, just to show how little difference in ‘tone’ there is
I got an education on the differences between Pots in my strat. In 2012 I rewired my Mexican Strat with CTS pots, GFS Grey bottom pickups, and it sounded great. Months later I banged my strat against my amp on accident and the shaft off the volume pot would free spin not turning off or down. I had a 250k Alpha pot so I put it in place. My strat was very thin sounding in the mids, noticeably less output, and more noise. I rechecked my solder joints and the same results. All my friends could hear a difference. Later on I bought another CTS Pot and things were back to normal. I have been sold on quality Bournes or CTS pots ever since.
Is a treble bleed needed on a linear volume pot?
Off topic but what knife u working with there , I might like that .
I use CTS and Alpha pots but open to other brands but as far as the capacitors goes, the ceramic disc and polypropylene (orange drop, cinnamon and green Chiclet) of the same value makes more sense than the paper-in-oil caps especially since they serve the same purpose and are obviously cheaper than the PIOs.
I have one paper in oil cap. The reason I keep it there is only because it looks cool. It’s audio jewelry
I use orange drop caps and while some guitars are spec'd to 0.047 and some people go down to 0.022 i have found that with the overwound humbuckers i put in the bridge a 0.015 gives me the best tone when I get dial it down.
I always use OEM or quality replacement parts in guitars and vehicles. Being able to count on decent build quality and fit just saves headaches🤘
I have a French car, if I use OEM it will still be crap 😂
@@Studio22mix I admit that it does help to start with a well-made vehicle.
17:01 I can see both sides of the debate about Pure Tone jacks.... I would use them for my Tele or Strats but definitely not for my SG or Epiphone Casino.
Also I'm just a tad curious how you make sure the pots & caps you get are within tolerance. The manufacturers could send you out 1000 in a batch and there's quite a few, even for the premium items you buy, that would fall outside of tolerance spec. What do you do with the parts that aren't up to spec?
In what order would you say are the Holy Grail more important parts to keep Quality tone in guitar?
Lately I've been using the green poly cap...they sound just as good to me...👍
Those little cheap green caps are great, I have one…..but I can’t buy one because the Orange Drops look cooler
I have a 2012 Gretsch G5420T - a Korean made guitar. I knew I wanted to change the harness and all the components except the pickups. I wanted to do this because I knew the tone emanating from this guitar could be a lot better than it was when it was new and I also knew that I could change out the harness and its components for less than a hundred bucks while a pickup swap would cost another 300 at least on top of that. So I changed one component at a time just to experiment. The first thing I changed was the jack. I put in a Switchcraft. It was a HUGE improvement in tone. It became fuller and more defined. Every other component I installed had almost no effect on tone compared to that jack. The pots are all 500k audio taper. I exchanged the crappy ones for CTS and while they felt better, there was not a big noticeable change in tone. The single biggest improvement was that jack. Probably the second biggest improvement was the tone cap - an orange drop .022uf "J" series. But man, that jack swap was huge.
One added bonus for the Pure Tone jacks is their physical length with how the contacts are (way shorter than Switchcraft). Not always an issue, but on some Strats, especially the cheaper Squiers, sometimes the Switchcraft won’t physically fit in the body very well. The Pure Tone doesn’t have that issue.
It's funny how many people parrot the "dime size pot bad" line because of less expensive instruments yet turn a blind eye to the fact that both CTS and Bourns, brands that no one would ever dare trash, make mini "dime size" pots
Yep. Size doesn’t really matter in this case
There are like, idk, 800,000 DECENT guitar channels on youtube.
Half aren't just complaining about import build quality.
10% arent just covering songs, tim henson tabs tutorials or complaining gibsons build quality.
Of those, half are good, informative, useful in some way.
Maybe 2000 of those are the more technical and go beyond just woodworking and finishing.
Maybe 150-200 go deep and provide invaluable information from experienced professionals.
15 are not just hearsay, or complaining about emg compression or complaining about people complaining about emg compression; Instead they are giving nuanced guidance from well researched data that even my engineering degree won’t give me....this is the best one.
I love how you break this stuff down in such simple terms for idiots like me. If you're not an electrician, electrical engineer or guitar builder yourself this is really intimidating subject matter. My Schecter Damien 6FR has a SUPER scratchy volume pot and its resistance or how subtly it changes the volume is horrible. It really only has like three or four true volume stages. It would also be interesting to see a troubleshooting video about how to figure out what is wrong with your guitar electronics but maybe you already did that
Yes They Would!
I'm still really curious about the taper of pots... There's linear taper, there are variations of audio taper and there is also reverse audio taper. After watching this video I'm wondering if it has to do with the thickness of the "carbon race track" (I like that you called it that) or the width of the "carbon race track" throughout the rotation. Either way I imagine it is inconsistencies with cheaper pots.
This, I’d also like to know what actually controls the taper of the pot. I think it’s the resistance at different locations of the “race track” closest to the output lug being full on and the further away less signal moving the wiper you are changing the distance signal travels around the track? I think anyway? but I’ve never been completely satisfied with the taper of any volume pot , I’ve tried linear taper and went back to audio taper really quick but I’ve yet to find a pot that has a nice long even taper they all seem to have wide open, sorta a middle volume and off. I’ve tried bourns, cts but besides the feel of the pot they pretty much sound the same.
Picture a triangle, 90 degrees on bottom right. bottom left is zero, top right is 100. If the line from 0 to 100 goes straight it is linear, a sagging curve is audio taper/log, a bulging curve is antilog. Your hearing works logarithmically, so it sounds “right” as you turn the volume, if its audio taper.
Really informative video, and very interesting as well. It’s official. I’m a guitar nerd.
Excellent video
Excellent intel as always Dylan. Thank you!
I really like the knife pointer. 😂
“That’s not a knife…..THAT’s a knife” - Crocodile Dundee movie
This is probably the most thorough breakdown of the guts of these I’ve ever seen. Excellent job! Thanks for this!!
Will single coil pickups sound kinda funky thru 500K pots?
Nice TRM! You know knives as well!
Perhaps you have this elsewhere, I'd be interested in the recommended technique to enlarge the import metric pot/jack holes to imperial without chipping the top finish. Graduate specific drill diameters over blue tape?
When discussing top-quality switches, nothing can stand against or compete with Schaller MegaSwitches, be it the 5 or 3-way models or the flagship 5-Way Toggle Switch. Here, we're talking about a whole other level of excellence!
dang i missed this type of video from you🎉
This was a great video! In my opinion, tolerances, tapers, and solder joints are what matter. Electrons don't know how much you spent or what brand your parts are.
No interest in microphonics, screening, connector quality, temperature stability etc?
@@maxine2798 My response was about tone not interference or durability.
Amazing 🤩👍🙏 your the best
How many pots come in one order from your website? One order at $7.95? There’s two in the picture, and then a picture of only one pot, but it doesn’t specify whether you get two or just the one.
If you don't adjust tone or volume pots...all at 10, all the time.....does it matter? I do notice a difference when I disconnect a tone pot from the neck pup on a Tele....a 'nice' difference.
Its subjective, what tone fits best with what your trying to achieve. The department store Silvertone of the 60's were made of Masonite and cheap electronics had a distinctive tone that some artists really liked.
My opiinion, when I get a guitar I remove all the wiring and pots as well as the capacitors. It makes no sense to keep them. Once I do that, the guitar opens up. Now it will cost to upgrade though. Taper is important. 5 should feel like 5 and 2 should feel like 2 and no sudden drop off. Ki did a Mexican Stratocaster once and it was super nice after and had ceramic pickups.
Dylan. The one question i have always had is: what is the effect of ha ing different value pots. For instance, in a strat let's say I have a 500k vol and 250k tone. What are the pickups "seeing?" To that end, what happens if you have more pots. Let's say you have 10 250k pots. How does that affect everything?
I'll take a crack at answering this...
So, a potentiometer is a variable resistor, with a resistor foil around the outside 2 lugs and a "wiper" connected to the middle lug that creates a "short cut" for electricity to follow the path of least resistance.
The resistor foil is usually either a linear taper, (the resistance progresses in a straight fashion) or an audio taper. (The resistance follows a curve)
Now when wiring a guitar volume pot, you write the input (which is the output signal from your pickup) to either one side lug or the wiper lug (depending on what style you like) and the other side lug is wired to ground.
Now, I'm going to assume that standard wiring is used.
Pickup is weird to the outside lug, and the jack is wired to the wiper.
Electricity taking the path of least resistance isn't absolute, so some signal will try to bleed past the resistor foil to ground instead of traveling through the wiper to the output jack.
So, the higher the resistance of the pot, the less signal will be able to overcome that resistance and bleed to ground instead of going to your output to be amplified.
Higher frequencies overcome resistance more easily, which is why when you turn up the resistance of your volume pot, the signal not only gets quieter, but less treble as well. (Look up treble bleed circuits to fix this)
TL:DR:
Pots are adding resistance between signal and ground so less high end gets lost.
@TheAT5000 this definitely starts to answer the question. Thank you! What I'm asking is, so you know how "generally" we use 250k for singles and 500k for HBs. We'll that's because even when all the way up, there's still some resistance there. Right? Otherwise it wouldn't matter. So with a strat, for instance, that has 3 pots, where at least 2 of the pots are in series at a time (whatever tone pot is for that coil, and then the volume pot), does that multiply the resistance, or is it more like a bottle neck where once you have the resistance, level, that's the resistance until you go through a pot with more resistance?
@@BigSh00tsie, so when the pot is at 10, there is close to 0 resistance between the input (pickup output) and the output. (The wiper to the output jack)
The total resistance of the pot is always there in between the output of the pickup and ground.
The reason we use a higher resistance with a humbucker is because they tend to be darker, so the more we can resist the high frequencies blowing across the pot to ground, the more high end will be left in the signal to the amp.
Inversely, with a single coil, we might want to bleed some of that harsh high end to ground instead of sending it all to the amplifier, so we might use a lower resistance to ground.
The reason for using 2 tone pots is to be able to have 2 different value capacitors. The higher the capacitance, the lower the lowest frequency that can bleed across to ground.
@@TheAT5000 so wait, the resistance value of the pot, when does that come into play? My understanding was that's still in play when the pot is all the way up. Am inwrong on that?
@@BigSh00tsie the tone pot is just another way to bleed treble to ground without reducing the volume. (by adding resistance like the volume pot)
So they work by having overall resistance to ground, but also by reducing that resistance for the frequencies that can bleed past the capacitor you use.
(So they are weird the opposite of volume pots, because the resistance to ground is highest when at 10 where in a volume pot, the resistance to output is the lowest when at 10)
So the more resistance in them, the more frequencies are forced to go to the output jack to the amp.
And as a general rule, you always want your tone pot's resistance to be equal to or greater than your volume pot's resistance to ground.
(Otherwise the signal will pass through the tone pot to ground more easily than the volume pot would normally allow, but if you like the sounds, break the rules!)
Thanks, as a rabbit with not much grass to chew I can only buy cheap parts for my gits. The only thing I would like to pay more for would be good hardware like tuners and nuts
I just want to change all the electronics on my guitar as a way to practice and learn soldering and also learning the wiring schematics of the instrument. As far as pots i just want to find some that are higher friction, so that they dont turn when u look at them. 😂
Mine: 50s Wiring Scheme:
Pots: Alpha Brand 500kΩ x4
Capacitor: Orange Drop 0.022uf x2
Pickups: Wilkinson Classic Alnico V (B: 13.8kΩ - N: 7.35kΩ)
Hardware: Wilkinson LP Style
Strings: Rotosounds Roto Blues 10/52 String Set
Amp: Marshall VS40R Combo
Thoughts:??
It looks 😅 like you have thought it all out.
It's what works for you right
Funny no one talks about wattage like 1/8th 1/4 1/2 all resistors are not just rated in ohms or k ohm also wattage
There are no resistors like that in a normal passive guitar
The biggest differences in tone, outside of the person playing, are the pickups in the guitar and the speaker in the amp.
Are CTS pots better than Emerson? I'm still learning all this.
Emerson pots are just CTS
So what does CTS mean if Emerson is a brand?@@DylanTalksTone
Emerson just private labels CTS pots as their own
If you’re a company you can order CTS pots or other pots and sort of call them your own. Stewmac has CTS pots with 10 percent tolerance and has their name engraved on the sides. Dimarzio pickups has push pull pots unbranded but it’s probably Alpha I think.
@@DylanTalksToneokay. I heard that and I told someone that and got dogged. Thanks for validating what I’ve heard.
Is water wet?
Cold solder joints sure do… Otherwise, the electrons don't seem to care. One major caveat is that with cheaper parts you were less likely to get a part that works the way you think it does. Tolerances are a thing, and with cheaper parts the actual value of the component is less likely to match what is printed on it.
Nice pots are worth it for mechanical reasons, but in a guitar, a cap is cap and a wire is a wire.
Nice jacks are also worth it, again for mechanical reasons.
I like CRL switches, but i have some Asian cheapos that work well and have lasted decades. The CRL feels better though. I have a Schaller that is good, but doesn't feel great.
Tone is in the speaker n mic placement.🤐🍻
I know nothing about this other than the pots and caps I overpaid from Bare Knuckle might have something to do with how perfect their pickups perform. they do a 550k CTS pot for reasons unknown, and at least one I used was a normal 500K CTS pot, so that's not it. The tone is usually at 10 so can the caps' 3% effect make all the tone better? I doubt it. Its the pickups.
I'm about to install a Dylan P90 and Centerpunch 8 along with the regular CTS pots and standard .0022 orange caps in the next two weeks and my guess it will also be about the pickups.
Don't skimp on switches and jacks as those are moving and high traffic parts.
What about the bigger Alpha pot ?
Love the nerdy stuff
The words cheap and expensive DO NOT give you tone. I turn my sound off using the volume knobs on my guitar's body depending on where my switch is set. I have no clue where he was going with that. Snake oil luthiers say what!? If it has good tone then you've got good pots n caps. Or do you? The quality of hardware has come a long way over the last two decades. Cheaper hardware, in many cases, can rival the best of the best hardware. That, and if you buy directly from the manufactured source you can get quality hardware at half the price. If not, upgrade but don't buy the most expensive hardware to have a good tone. Do your research before you buy.
After dissecting the CTS and Alpha pots, you posed the question "Is this all tone related ? This part [pointing to the tracks] ... absolutely it is". But you did not provide any evidence or theory as to why that would be the case. How would the SAME static resistance value on the two tracks have any influence on tone ?
Watch the video again… very… slowly….
@@DylanTalksTone I watched the whole video again, in case I missed something. Unfortunately I did not see clarity on that point.
I'm not just splitting hairs here. It's more than just an esoteric question. Because there are people who assert strongly that expensive pots sound better, as if there is such a thing as higher quality resistance and lower quality resistance. It's also the basis of some peoples' belief that vintage pots sound better. Such that 250 kOhms in an expensive or vintage pot would sound "better" than 250 kOhms in a cheaper or modern pot. And I asked because your statement "Is this all tone related ? This part ... absolutely it is" can be construed as making a similar suggestion. If you would like to disavow that, then please do.
You reasonably summarize at the end that tolerance (pots and caps) and taper (pots) are important, as well as reliability. Totally agree there. The published tolerance 'B' spec on CTS 450G guitar pots can be either +/- 10% or +/- 20%. I see from your website that the pots you are selling are the tighter +/- 10% spec. It would be good if other vendors made that clear - some do, but many don't (probably mostly those selling the wider spec). So just buying CTS is not a guarantee of better tolerance. The big general electronics supply houses list the full CTS 14-number part code, so it's always 100% clear what you're buying from them, including CTS's six possible audio/log tapers (5% to 30%), for those who like a particular taper (as of today, your pot product page does not seem to list the taper).
I did not assert that and I was very clear about the benefits of better pots.
The torque and physical size of a pot make a difference. Not too much on sound but just making small adjustments to your tone. Reliability is also important which is why I generally replace all the pots and wires on cheap guitars.
Expensive caps in guitars are bs. Just use the right value.
Bourns mini pots are far superior to CTS. Capacitor type doesn't matter at all, switches and jacks are extremely important for reliability only, no affect on tone
Without even watching, I've changed cheap electronics for better ones and the pots and switches and caps make a huge difference in tone.
Alpha makes higher quality pots, the 24mm audio pots , ive used hundreds in pedals and amps and never had one fail. Ive had failure from bourns pots. You gotta be careful when u solder pots, heat can damage the carbon track . Ive tried every kind of capacitor, almost every brand. It guitar audio where there distortion capacitors in amp and guitars isnt as important as like hifi stuff. But the one i like the best are vishey mustard caps the 630v. Those little green cicklets sound really good. Honestly any caps coming out of taiwan or japan are usally good. . Jupitor condenser makes great american made caps, reasonable prices.
Guitars are not the same as amps and pedals
You should upgrade switches and jacks; they often break. Tone difference? Doubtful. Pots? Hard to say - both cheap and expensive ones have capacitance they aren't supposed to have, the CTS I use vary wildly on this, figuring in the value of course. Pots bad enough to not taper correctly are pretty rare, but they're out there.
One thing to be aware of with pots is US spec pots like CTS have a physically different size post. This means that if you have an inexpensive Asian made guitar and want to put CTS pots in you would probably need to drill out the hole to make it larger. Which is probably okay if loaded into a pick guard like that bass, but you probably don’t want to do that if it’s through a finished surface like a Les Paul or other such thing. Better of getting the best quality non-US spec ones you can get.
We talked about that
orange drop caps taste good
Grabbing popcorn.
90% of guitarists agree that it's all to do with the pot.
I really don't like the hate for box switches. You can get really nice PCB switches, but it is hard to get them outside of ordering Ibanez or ESP Japan replacement parts.
Who said anything about hate
@@DylanTalksTone I never hear hate from you, I sh9uod have phrased that better. The community in general is so salty about them but I like the Ibanez one that does bridge humbucker, reverse phase, standard phase, split neck, full neck
Haven't seen any real evidence that small Alpha pots do not last as long as CTS pots. The opened CTS pot is not CERMET either, so it collects dirt inside as well. Most pots have very similar specs for longevity. From 10 000 to 100 000 travels. Standard range CTS promises only 10 000 travels where Alpha 15000 travels with their "small pot". This info is in their data sheets.
As you can see in the video, CTS has the thick carbon track. Once they get dirty inside a CTS can be cleaned and be brought back to service quite easily while the Alpha will usually enter a slippery downward slope and once they start failing it's a fairly quick process as the scratches dirt leaves on the carbon track can go through and kill the pot. It's not the number of guaranteed trouble free cycles but what happens after issues start on less than ideal conditions.
Also, and this goes for all 16mm pots, their taper is always less precise. The wider the pot, the longer the track and the more nuanced the taper can be and precise your adjustments while moving the knob. Small pots can sometimes feel jumpy and I like playing with my controls a lot.
@@Strongholle It is unclear which series of CTS pots he is talking about. As mentioned earlier the "standard" series has only 10 000 travels guaranteed. The "special" series has 100 000 travels guaranteed, which makes it obviously a more durable pot. Couple of other things which are not correct in his "analysis". Alpha uses multiple contact springs in their taper. The purpose of this is to reduce the contact force to the resistive material assuring longer lifespan. Using just two stronger springs means higher contact force and also uneven wear of the resistive material. This must be compensated with a thicker resistive layer to achieve promised specs. The CTS construction is probably 50 years old compared to Alphas more modern approach.
What comes to the grease added to the CTS pot its purpose is not to seal anything. The purpose is to add friction when the pot is turned to make it feel "smooth". And yes, thick grease between two metal surfaces adds friction rather than reducing it. Bourns and others use the same method.
Quote "Also, and this goes for all 16mm pots, their taper is always less precise. The wider the pot, the longer the track and the more nuanced the taper can be and precise your adjustments while moving the knob. Small pots can sometimes feel jumpy and I like playing with my controls a lot." Have you any proof of that claim not being as precise?
If someone has problems with these "small pots" that might be of other reasons than described by Dylan. There are a lot of Chinese Alpha knock offs around in affordable instruments and not sure about the quality of those. Personally, I haven't experienced the on/off behavior. Seen it in YT videos though.
Dylan having so many things wrong in this video raises some questions. Does he really know what he is talking about or was this made just for marketing purposes? He is selling this stuff.
@@hannuhanhi183 Easy TL;DR but I'll bite. I've worked on guitars for years and while I think Alpha pots are really good for the money I've found after wiring/rewiring hundreds of circuits that CTS's are by far more durable, over time with use and when soldering. (You have to be fairly careless) but when soldering Alpha's you can burn up the board and have the pot become noisy/fail before it's time. Same if you bend the legs, you can break the carbon track unless you're careful or use a wire to make the connection. Once again, if you're experienced it's rare that this'll happen but CTS just take whatever you throw at them. I don't care enough to look into it but the CTS pots usually found in guitars are from the specific Guitar Series, which are only offered in 10 and 20% tolerance, matching the Special series vs the standards, which doesn't mean some shady shops or makers don't use the Standards.
The grease stuff you said is true but I never mentioned any of that, I'm not talking about Dylan and his reliability/knowhow either.
As for the taper and pot diameter, the further away the carbon strip is from the centre of the pot the longer it is overall and for a given angle of movement the contact will travel a longer distance over the track. Given that most guitar pots are audio pots what I suppose is that it's easier to make an accurate audio taper on a bigger resistor without adding too much to the production cost. One of the big cons of Alpha pots in general is that their audio taper is worse than CTS, being two conjoined linear tapers approximating a curve than an actual logarythmic shape like on CTS and I feel it's worse on the 16's. Also, maybe it's heat disipation when soldering or whatever but for some reason the smaller pots tend to fail a lot more, from what I've seen. Maybe it's chinese copies, but Alpha makes a shit ton of different specs for pots so the shittier ones might not be fake.
All in all, if I buy a guitar with Alpha 16's and they work I'm not gonna change them. If I rewire a guitar or need to replace a pot I'm gonna use CTS or Bourns.
@@Strongholle Quote "Also, and this goes for all 16mm pots, their taper is always less precise.". Didn't receive any evidence to this statement. What I have in hand here is a 3x3mm Bourns SMD trimmer. The travel is hard to measure but is some millimeters. It adjusts the resistance just fine and is accurate. Another which I have in hand is a multiturn trimmer pot which travel is like 12 mm. It also adjusts fine with every turn of the adjustment screw. With every turn the taper moves just a tiny bit, fractions of a millimeter.
I use extensively Bourns push/pull "small pots" in my builds because I want to have the split coil feature. Never have experienced that they are less precise than same value "big pots" from Bourns. Based on these examples I cannot see any correlation in taper length shorter being less accurate than longer one. It cannot be generalized that shorter taper equals less accuracy. But yes, as you said it might be easier to manufacture a longer taper pot which fits in the specs.
Quote " One of the big cons of Alpha pots in general is that their audio taper is worse than CTS, being two conjoined linear tapers approximating a curve than an actual logarythmic shape like on CTS". Well, if you look at the specs of the CTS "logarithmic" pot (Series 450G
) the curve is definitely not logarithmic. It's almost perfectly linear up to 50% of the turn and then jumps to logarithmic. Linear half of the turn. That's quite a lot I would say. So, this statement is also busted.
What comes abusing pots when soldering the lugs it seems to be the norm rather than exception when you watch YT videos. Often you see a Harley Davidson grade (sorry for the analogy) 100W soldering iron 😁. In most cases they don't have any temperature control either. No wonder you burn up everything with it. I well understand that you need more power when you solder the grounding wire to the base of the pot. Why not use a temp controlled soldering iron for safe soldering. ?
And again, I'm merely talking about Dylans credibility. To my eyes this video seems more like a marketing video than anything else.
I've had problems with Alpha pots but every CTS pot I've ever put into a guitar or bass has been solid. When it comes to a push/pull I use a Gibson pot in an SG because they're about 1.5mm shorter so they fit behind the cover.
kind of begs the question,,for what would only add a small increase to the cots of the guitar why not fit good components to begin,,,anyway modding is fun,,
I'm a pure tone fan .
does quality matter, yes. can you hear it, maybe, maybe not. tighter tolerances, better durability, smoother, so yes you generally get what you pay for.
In terms of tone, I would think it will help bring your point across if you could show a comparison of an EQ chart (frequency?) using the same parts, but only changing the (in example) volume pot. With a good comparison of the EQ Chart, seeing how the different frequencies are being affected by the cheap/expensive parts, AND having a recording using the same guitar/amp/distortion/speaker would make it even better.
It might be a case that the 10% range on those pots make a tonal difference of 95%, or 1%, to the point that is negligible in a real world scenario
In my opinion without those charts/recording, the most important point that I can take from this video is everything about reliability which I fully agree, those cheap pots will become scratchy and fail, which is not something that any pro wants, but then again, what are the probabilities of such a thing happening over time (20% chance of a pot dying over 3 years of use?, I've no idea)
you wouldn't notice. you can try it yourself and make your own video
Yeah… if you have to look at a chart… what’s the point. I’m playing guitar instead.
@@DylanTalksTone the point is that we are discussing tone, but this video in terms of tone is just Anecdotal Fallacy, based on your personal experience.
So without any more evidence, I can also say that tone is not ruined by cheap electronics at all.
Not trying to be a dick here tbh, you are the expert and I thought you could provide more data. Cheers brother
You did t watch the whole video did you… I said…. I don’t care about tone in this conversation…. If you don’t like the content you see, I challenge you to make the video you think needs to be made
I don’t think people understand how this works. I will talk about this tomorrow on the podcast. You can’t actually “show it on an eq chart” because the variables are a sliding scale. If you can’t hear it… YOU can’t hear it.
Attenuation