I was born to Jehovah's Witness parents and plus I'm gay. It was hell. I finally got free by getting a job and a place to live, and what really gets to me is that my brother claims to be a Jehovah's Witness but I'm the one who took care of my dad until he died of cancer, I'm the one who takes care of my mom...constantly giving her money to live on and my brother never calls, never comes by to see her. Religious hypocrisy is just so blatant and it is soothing to listen to youtube videos like this.
John Morris stay strong man. I give you the credit. Thank you for taking care of your parents. Having real people give you credit for doing the things you have done is better than you brother pretending to be a good person to a pretend god. So I believe you. Keep up the good work.
I love to listen to Tracie. She is unpretentious and so honest in what she says, she cuts through the religious BS and articulates what we all think. All hail the Harris woman!
@John Digsby for how many thousands of years has religion been repeating the same shit! That's religion for ya. Maybe if religion had better arguments Tracy would have to come up with something new to debunk it. So easy.
@John Digsby yet religion considers its unchanging rigidity to be a virtue.... No growth, thats theism for ya. You should probably think about how tracie as well as many, if not most atheists were once strongly religious people. Breaking free from faith involves years of intellectual and emotional growth. And now that we are no longer held back by "forbidden knowledge" we are free to expand our understanding far beyond theistic limitations. Ever expanding understanding of the reality we live in, thats atheism for ya! Stuck in the same outmoded unchanging faith based beliefs with no growth, thats religion for ya
The part about having to choose a religion hit home for me. I spent my late teens, twenties and early thirties looking for “the right” religion. Never finding it, of course. It wasn’t until my early thirties that I suddenly realized that I could reject them all! And I became an atheist! It was very liberating!
Tracie is simply fantastic. I especially appreciate her amazing communication skills on The Atheist Experience. While everybody is lost in a net of confusion, she realizes what the callers are trying to say and convey difficult concepts in a way that you can grasp the main aspects of it and yet easy to understand. Simply outstanding!
I grew up in an abusive, alcoholic family. I still managed to feel sorry for my friend that grew up in a religious family that never spoke to one another. I always thought that was very odd, even in comparison to my constantly yelling family. How can a high school kid recognize the dysfunction of both families, but the adults involved couldn't? I don't think the religion was the cause, but it was at least a strong distraction from their dysfunction.
For as long as I can remember, as a child the absolute highest virtue a person could have was not honesty or kindness, it was faith. In my church, the more devout you were the better a person you were. At my grandmother’s funeral the minister spoke of her greatest strength as being her unshakeable faith. Why is this? Why should belief, rather than actions be a measure of a person’s worth?
@Steve You think everlything is preordained? That we can't choose what we do? If that were true, thenwhy would anyone try to convert another person into their faith? Why go to church at all? It won't make any difference, using that logic.
@Steve Gods do not exist. They are a man made construct, originating from a time when we did not have explanations for the natural world. Now we do. It is infantile and silly tobelieve such nonsense.
@Steve Why do you peoplw always think there has to be a goal? Why? I think its far more likely that the universe just happened than that an invisible, immortal wizard with superpowers wished it into existence. And that this same wizarsd actually givews a shit about you. There are millions of children who suffer and starve EVERY SINGLE DAY. What a wonderful plan. Yeah, yeah, I know, we cannot be expected to understand such a great and wonderful plan, its beyond us. What that is is an excuse because you know perfectly well that there is no excluse, and you can't justify it any other way. Go, on, believe in your childish shit if you want to. I prefer to be an adult.
@Steve That old silly "| don't have enough faith to be an atheist", argument you all bring out. It doesn't make any sense at all. Being an atheist MEANS taking NOTHING on faith, but on evidence. Prove to me your god exists. As for 55percent of the world's population, that number is dwindling fast as more and more educated people arae seeing the light and giving up superstitious nonsense. 97 percent of scientists do not believe in god. There LIS evedience for the big bang. None at all for the wijzard waving his mlagic wand.
@Steve It will never happen. Because I will be dead. And so will you. Congrats on managing to convert third world countries. That's the best you can do. And by the way, christian websites lie all the time. Common knowledge. Why do you believe this, anyway? Does it make ylou feel all warm and fuzzy? Why is an invisible immortal wizard MORE plausible than natural and proven explanations?
I'm late to the party but I'll still say it: The thing with those "soft" religions is that we only get told the "nice" things. i've a ex-hindu Friend who explained quite a lot about his religion and didn't understand how we see it as a open nice philosophy. Yet the same time he seemed to be attrackted to christianity because a all loving god who provides you with hevean in the afterlife if you onle accept him sounds so comferting, but the moment we took a bible and I told him about my experiances with the catholic faith, he was shocked. I think the problem here is that somehow along the history of humans we decided religions if spoken openly about it have to sound nice and comforting because it's easier to catch flies with honey than shit. But the moment you are hooked you'll get the full law of what is required of you as now you are one of "his children". It's like the kidnapper showing a kid the toy and once you're in the van takes out the knife. We (as on most westerners) have no clue about eastern religion and philosophies and because the only thing we realy get to know (through media and talks) are the nice propaganda they set out to catch people. All religions are superficially nice and cuddly but none I know of is fully accepting of you who are but always demands special behavior in order for you to "get your reward".
I'm sorry, Space Ghost 54, maybe it's because I'm french, but I don't understand your note. I agree with you, Tracie Harris could be at the head of Departement of Education, she's smart enough. I hope that, thanks to her, religion will step back in the US like it did in France.
Bruce Blake I would be more than overjoyed to board a space ship like the Starship Enterprise or the Millenium Falcon and go flying all about the galaxy looking for new worlds. But I would want God to be with me all the while.
Exactly, I was born an atheist and have had no reason to change. My father was born into RC church and insisted that his children not be even baptised.
This is just my thought, but if any member of my family would reject me for who I am then I wouldn't hesitate to eliminate those relations no matter how much it hurt. It's the same reason why I wasn't to upset to lose friends once I came out, because I realized I never lost anything, those friends were never true friends to begin with.
Here so something to wrap your head around. I am homeless. All my life growing up. I was forced to go to church. But deep in my heart. I knew something was wrong. Saw bunch of bad things from people who claimed to be Christians. But most important. I'm a man of Science. Always have been. I question everything. I was way to afraid of telling anyone. Cause my family is so locked in to Christianity its in sane. Bout there is a time that I went back to God. Hoping that maybe this time. I can have him be in me. And I can walk with him.. But I knew It was a lie. So this time I left and I left for good. Your show have help me. To not be afraid of my choice. I even happy to talk about it out loud. But the problem I have now. Since right now in homeless and staying in a shelter. Its a Christian shelter. Everyday we must attend 7 days a week I must be fed this stuff. I want to question every 7 different pastors that come in there. With the words. Why do think these things are true . but I dare not because I have no other place to go. Try being an Atheist and have to go through that. For me its a nightmare.
EpicBlack Capricorn Stay strong, you know who you are. We do a lot of work with the homeless but feel no need to preach to them - just help. Hopefully, one day, it will be like that for everyone.
EpicBlack Capricorn In other words you are forced to listen to Christian clap trap in order to stay in the shelter. That's a form of blackmail. Evangelical Christians are good at that but chalk it up as saving soul.
Could not had said it better myself.. I dare not say I'm an Atheist. For fear. But I know what's inside of me. I want to challenge everything these pastor say. But I just can't right now. They sure hate Atheist tho.
I can promise you these pastors will have a comeback for everything you say. They will even come up with a biblical quote about those who've turned against their god. Christians often speak of atheists being full of rage so that too could be mentioned. Try focusing on how hard your chair is and how comfortable you can make it seem. You will feel more at peace by changing your focus.
My father was an ordained minister, much more educated than most priests or pastors. He opened his church to the homeless in the evenings as a drop-in center. No mention of anything related to the bible as he knew it would drive them away. Thro his program a bunch of them eventually got their lives back on track and continued on as volunteers.
The part about Tracie talking about the feeling like you have to choose a religion was really spot on for me. It took a while for it to occur to me that you don't have to choose a religion. I felt that by not choosing I was a bad person. So, I did a lot of research into other religions: Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Scientology, Judaism, etc. I was even Deist for a while, probably a really common transition for atheists. None of them seemed like a good fit. It wasn't until I started watching atheist youtube channels and saw other atheists in my community that I felt comfortable with the idea of not having a religion. I think that's why it is so important to come out as a non-believer, as long as it is safe for you to do so.
Amber Wilds Spot on, Amber. I feel safe mentioning my atheism when the subject comes up, and I believe it's important to do so. I also understand how it can be less safe for others to do so, which makes it even more important for those of us who can do so to just come right out and say it.
+Ann Nee So true, I'm Scandinavian -.and even thou I'm from a very religious family it never hurt me one bit coming out as an atheist! If religion comes up at a social gathering or with clients at work, I have no problem saying I'm an atheist! People barely raises an eyebrow.....
Many of us lost our faith due to using logic, though some of us took a lot longer to accept it. I lost quite a few friends when I would state that we humans have to live by a higher standard than God himself has to live by. We are considered inhuman if we allow suffering when we could prevent it or end it, yet God not only allows it, he causes it if you believe he controls the natural disasters on Earth. My friends looked at me as if I had lost my mind, just how could I not see that God loves us? When I pointed out the double standard, they said Satan had possessed me. Granted, these people were evangelicals that I worked with, not Catholics that I was raised with. The Catholics I know don't believe in a literal bible, which is why the evangelicals where I live think Catholics are going to hell as well. Brainwashing is bad.
1:07:00 You begin talking about choosing any religion, as long as you choose one. I asked my Dad what he would think if I decided to become a Buddhist, because I find their way of life more peaceful and tolerant. With a wince, he responds "well... I guess as long as you're not an atheist." I told him I'm very sorry to hear that, because I've got some bad news. There was a little awkwardness for about a week, and he said he would seek "spiritual guidance" for me. I believe he truly accepts me the way I am, but the topic does not come up any more. He is still as loving as ever. And I feel great to finally have this off my chest. My mother's mother, however, told my mom that she was responsible for me going to hell... And you can imagine this put my mother under a tremendous amount of stress. I scheduled a time with my grandparents to discuss how I feel and why. I politely challenged their points of view, after telling them I find what they said to my mother to be unacceptable, so here is their chance. Ultimately I asked them to pray that God reveals himself to me (Thanks Matt Dillahunty). And the discussion has not come up again. Yet they, like my dad, continue to be as loving as ever.
Your privileged to have that kind of family. most of other atheist like me stay inside the closet because of all bad things that could happen to us the moment we came out.
Recently, I told my roommate I'm an atheist and she thought I worshipped Satan. I'm dead serious. Unfortunately, she has never once thought for herself or investigated outside of her religion. What ever her pastor says, she accepts it hook, line, and sinker.
I agree. Tracie always keeps me interested and appears to be an intelligent person who seems to have similar beliefs and values to me. Except, I'm grateful to have not had to deal with being inundated nearly as badly by the religious folk up here, growing up. Sadly my children had to deal with being told they weren't allowed to visit a friend's house because they were white and not Muslim. Those are the same children who would tell my kids (they couldn't understand that my children are atheists from birth), but they loved to tell my kids what was against their religion and spoil the holidays we celebrate. These same children went to the mall and other stores and stole. Hypocrites much? This is quite old, but as a Canadian with friends who have moved to the US, their atheist or lack of religious views can be a challenge for them.. I'm glad there are people like Tracie out there.
Tracie, when I came out as an atheist, it not only hurt me with family but it also impacted my business. Thank you for being you! Been a huge help on this guy here.
Ok, so I've heard so many different story tellings by JW's "themselves" on this issue: Based on their understanding of scriptures such as Revelation 14:1-4, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 faithful Christians go to heaven to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God. I am not barking on you but please explain. I don't understand why in the world all this door to door knocking, the fatal compulsion of knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, and then, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking some more until one is absolutely furious and has to them to go the fuck away. Why such an attempt to convert if, the fact remains, that only 144,000 faithful Christians go to heaven to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God. As of 2018, Jehovah's Witnesses reported a monthly average membership of approximately 8.36 million actively involved in preaching, with a peak of 8.58 million. Who is going to be the 140,000 JW's that will be picked because I know for a fact that no Christian, Jew, Muslim or heathen are part of that 144,000? Will it be like the Texas Lotto? Lotto made for Texas but all can play and all can win. Screw the Texans, huh? That leaves a hell of a lot of millions-JW's out of the land of silk and money... No, seriously, you being an X-JW, I figured I could ask you and get an honest answer.
39:40 In a nutshell all of my pain of being a 'good' Christian kid. "If mom and dad knew who I really was they would reject me. They "love" me, but that's not me that they love"
Terrific talk, Tracie!! (accidental alliteration, actually) .. great points about the family values of many religious groups being, in fact, hateful and harmful. And that softening the hard line religious behaviors (such as "disowning" non-believing family members) from within the religion is perhaps the most practical remedy short-term .. if we can't manage to achieve the preferable mass deconversion to secular values. Your study and out-reach efforts are greatly appreciated!
It wouldn't surprise me at all if someone at the church told those children that their dad was going to hell. When I was a 1st grader in Virginia, we prayed in school (even though it had been illegal for a few years by then) and the morning prayer was "The Lord's Prayer". My teacher, like many people around there, was a Baptist, and my family were Catholic. So one day I asked my teacher why we weren't say the prayer right - because the Catholic version is slightly different from the Baptist, and this truly sweet lady asked me if my family were Papists! To which I said, "No, we're Catholics." not understanding what the hell a "Papist" was at 6 years old. And she told me in the most gentle, concerned tone that you can imagine, that I and all my family were going to hell if we did not get born again in Jesus.
a baptist church bus used to roll through our neighborhood every sunday to pick up kids, when i was about 7. we'd always hit the deck when the driver knocked on our door. those freaks burned effigy dolls to illustrate hell. fuck em.
raleighman3000 That is sick, but not as sick as what a friend of mine told me he went through. He told me (so this is hearsay, but I trust him) that as a boy his parents sent him to a Bible camp every year, and one of the things they had there was a steel elevated walkway over a fire pit. They spent their last night around a huge bonfire, being told stories about hell and damnation, and had to walk (not run) over that walkway to experience the fires of hell and the choking fumes, while loudspeakers played recordings of agonized screaming. They couldn't wear rubber soled shoes for this because the walkway was too hot and would melt them. He said that the first couple of years he got minor burns on his feet, then he got smart and brought an old pair of his dad's work boots to camp, which were big enough to stuff socks under his feet to protect them. Sadly, he is still an evangelical, and the reason he told me the story was to convince me that if I had the slightest idea how bad hell was, I would be in church every week. So the story, if true, is just an example of how effective this terror can be.
My mother was and remains a Catholic. She never bought into the whole we were born in sin crap. She always told myself, and my brother and my sister that we were good people who by in large didn't have anything to be ashamed for.
There are atheist, skeptic, and freethinker groups all over the US that you can find on Meetup. After hearing what emotional torment religious families cause for unbelieving members, I strongly encourage you all to reach out and find a supportive group.
+Bluemonsoon Aaaawwwhhh, how cute, a religious troll - now go crawl back under your bridge and don't come out again until you've learned how to behave!
@Bluemonsoon You must be a fundamentalist whom seems perfectly fine with the idea of a God who sends people to hell to suffer for all eternity with no hope of reprieve. That seems like an extremely unsympathetic, jealous, vengeful, vindictive God to me.
All four of my children ”hated” my religion (Mormonism) and became atheists before I got smart and became an anti-Mormon** and an atheist myself. It's hard to admit all my children were so much smarter than me. At first, I though my children were going to become really bad people, but they all turned out to be very good. I don't dislike most Mormon individuals, but I don't have respect for their beliefs. I don't respect my own beliefs, because I’m open to change
I dont really think it comes down to being smarter. Exposure or lack there of can be a huge factor. I was a perfectly honest and reasonably intelligent christian for 26 years before i had my head pulled out of the sand by someone asking me questions i had never had to answer before. Your kids got exposed to new ideas and then exposed you to those ideas, and ALL of you were smart enough to see reason in the end.
I'll never forget Tracie's story about her pious grandma. At the very least, it is said that religion is supposed to comfort people. I've heard this from well-meaning new age or even atheist people who don't like confronting religious people. Don't criticize because they get comfort from it. We've all heard this. However, Tracie's grandma on her deathbed was terrified that she might go to hell because she might not have been pious enough during her life. Talk about a warped psychotic belief system that would terrorize people on their deathbed. Or cause some gay people to commit suicide because they couldn't handle reconciling their religion, their family and their sexual orientation. Fucking scumbag religious systems.
I am by birth and continued cultural choice a Scot, but since the reign of Gerald the Pardoner I have been a citizen of the USA. Strangely enough, in troubled Northern Ireland, I had been a devout member of a couple of decent "harmless" liberal Presbyterian congregations. The ministers of these even condemned the extremist Presbyterian Rev. Ian Paisley, and had little respect for Billy Graham's "crusades". The reputation for being "good" is somewhat self fulfilling. If ordinary decent folk think that Church attendance is what Good Folk do, that's what they'll do, and by their own benevolent nature, may very well do good, for which religion gets credit in their own minds, although it has nothing to do with more than a smidgen of religious doctrine. Just as we ought not to judge a religion by the extraordinary wickedness of a few of its leaders, there is also no reason to judge it by the good deeds of even a majority of its members. The question is whether the doctrine inclines people to do good or evil. The tale of the Prodigal Son, or that of equal pay for those who worked all day, and those who turned up at the 11th hour, if earnestly believed, are obviously mischievous. The notion that your evildoing can be wiped out if you change your mind at the last minute is inherently unjust. Donald Trump ought not to be forgiven FOUR bankruptcies.
I have brothers & sisters. Only one of my siblings is not an Atheist. Each of us came to secular conclusions independently, and I first discovered our father was a life-long Atheist when he was 96 years old! Tracie's correct to point out that open communication about religion & Atheism is advantageous. I make a practice of telling people whom I meet that I'm an Atheist fairly soon after meeting them; I figure that many will see that their stereotype will be challenged by my behavior as a good honest person. Oddly enough, I often find that people I meet are also Atheists & glad to open-up about what was long considered a taboo. Generally, I don't get much grief about my 'dis-belief', and often just get questions that I'm happy to answer. Tracie's observation that Atheists are poorly counted is spot-on. If Americans really knew what the word means, and they really examined their own doubts very carefully, the percentage would be much higher than claimed. Outspoken Atheists, especially if tactful but direct, are opening the dialogue that will blunt false notions about Atheism as anything threatening or worthy of contempt.
+SIMKINETICS That's why I call nasty names just as often as when I was a Christian. Meaning hardly ever. I hate atheists who say whatever they want. It doesn't help.
An amazing talk by Tracy Harris. All the specific harmful effects of religion need to be addressed this way, combined with the explanation of why we can be certain it wouldn't happen if we took another approach, here being the family put first as the better alternative to religion and having alternative methods for bonding. However, at the 1 hour mark, Tracy spoke about a kid who felt she had let down her mother by being the only one of her siblings left going to church with her mum. I don't think Tracy has stressed enough how devastating such a thought is for a child who loves her mother and thinks this every day, all day. I think Tracy should have reminded the audience of what she said at the start; that kids like that fear being rejected by their parent(s) and already feel rejected for who they are and feel loved for someone they are not. Those children feel like unloved, rejected failures. Those are not healthy emotions for a young human still in the process of developing the brain. I don't think I need to add that religion is harmful and that it should be stopped. Edit: Oops, I noticed that Tracie is typed with ie. Sorry Tracie :) I'm a terrible fan and stalker; I still didn't know how to type your name :p
This is an excellent talk. Reminded me of the time my brother was bragging to me how his three sons turned out because he raised them in the mormon church. I said to him: "I raised my four kids on my own WITHOUT religion. And, they all turned out to be positive, productive and liberally minded people." And, I would tell him later, that when my wife left the family, the church was only interested as long as i attended. Once we demonstrated we would not sit in their pews [as Ms. Harris suggests well in this video], they moved along to easier prey. I strongly agree: religion is VERY harmful to families.
To lie or not to lie. Consider life 5 years hence. If you lie, you will be right where you are now. If you tell the truth, hateful people will fall from your life. New people will come into your social circle. There will be no more pressure to lie.
I find it admirable that people can sit through church. I go nuts there and couldn’t bring myself to ever want to go. I must admire someone with that much patience for make believe.
Awesome! I've always liked Tracie. Her and Jen are my favorite hosts....other than Matt Dillahunty of course, who I think is *_the_* best atheist communicator America has at the moment. But it's very cool to see Tracie giving a talk of her very own. :)
I've got heaps of mates that don't believe any of the religious claims yet call themselves Catholic because they got brought up Catholic, like it's their race or something.
Sad/outrage... despair. Christianity kept me from talking to my parents, my Dad being the one chewing on it like a dog with a bone. I'm sad, as my Mom was such a sweet innocent, and it didn't allow her to talk to her precious little boy for the last decade of her life.
+Mandragora: In that episode, one winter morning, Homer decides to not go to church and he likes the fact that he didn't waste 1 day of his week and decides not to go anymore. On another sunday, his cigar falls to the ground and he goes to sleep. His house catches fire. He thinks that the jewish god did it to punish him. Classic Simpsons was super!
I find it hard to listen to these stories as it makes me so angry what religion does to people and their families. I really despise religion and those who think it's so great need to wake up to the harm it does. More videos like this will help to rid the planet of this bs.
@razumfrackle Look at statistics, it is working specially over the past 12 years. Information technology are bringing real knowledge to people and it makes more and more thinking about facts versus fiction. The days that the churches ruled the communities are disappearing fast. Islam will catch up later once there is freedom to media. They are still doing what you want to do and that is to suppress alternative ideas and knowledge so that your superstition can rule supreme.
@razumfrackle All these terrible days were learned from Religion and the God of the Bible, the Koran and the Torah. Please read your Bible and study more history to get facts and knowledge.
Tracie, you are inspiring. What a great job of pulling perspective together in unmasking the illusion so difficult to put a finger on otherwise. Wrapping the poison, just perfect!
Sorry, but there is no wisdom in religious nonsense. 102 or 70, a good life is measured by how it was enjoyed and how it made this world a little bit better. Life begins at perception and ends when the brain shuts down. Anything before or after is of no consequence to the individual. We're born, we live, we die, the end. That's life. Live with it!
This is one of the presentations I listen to when I'm not in the greatest mood. I don't personally know many atheist who acknowledge the harm of religion, mainly ones who just don't subscribe.
You're awesome Tracie! But these stories break my heart. I feel very lucky. My family is Christian. I'm an atheist. They don't care. They don't tell me I'm going to hell or that I'm a sinner. They make it real easy to be myself. My heart goes out to all these people. So sad.
When my partner and I were considering having children, we asked everyone we knew why they had had kids. These are intelligent, well educated people. Some of them not religious. Not one of them could come up with a reason other than, "that was what you do after you get married."
Noahs Ark That's how it's supposed to be in the U.S., too, according to the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Unfortunately, a lot of Christian conservatives in the U.S. either don't understand this or don't care. In the Q&A section of this video, Tracie spoke of a Jehovah's Witness who refused to see a doctor because it went against his religious beliefs. Part of me would like to see a large corporation run by Jehovah's Witnesses refuse all medical insurance for their employees, because maybe then a lot of Christian conservatives would see how bad the Hobby Lobby ruling was. Then again, they might not see that connection.
My sisters gal friend, when a teen, caught her heel in the spokes of a motorcycle. She needed transfusions which the family denied, associating it with cannibalism. She was made a ward of the court so the surgery could proceed. Without the transfusions she was going to die. None of us kids could understand how a family would let their child die because of religious beliefs.
Noahs Ark I think they're following what they believe to be their god's will. I'm sure they were very much hoping it would be their god's will for their daughter to survive, but feared what might happen to their and/or their daughter's eternal souls if they had gone against what they believed to be their god's will. I have only been approached by Jehovah's Witnesses once, and they seemed to understand the verse about shaking the dust off their feet. This was a good thing, but withholding a life-saving medical procedure can be very harmful indeed. I'm glad your sister's friend was able to receive the medical help she needed to save her life.
I'm a little shocked to hear how problematic it can be in the US to be an atheist. In Germany it's really no big deal. I grew up in an untypically religious environment and still - not much of a deal... My best wishes to all the atheists in the States!
Tracie Harris and Jen Peeples are my favorites from the Atheist Experience TV Show (but I do not really know why). It may already be changing quite a bit, but the males on major atheists panels and conventions often site the lack of female speakers, and hope for and encourage more women to be the lead speakers (or for women to be the majority or all of the speakers at those events). I hope Tracie and others will morph into the positions or encourage other women to fill those panel seats. It would be interesting to have a women only atheist tour similar to what the males have been doing. I'd like to see Tracie and Jen be two of them on that four-horsewomen type stage. Yippe Tracie! (here I want to gush and say "I'm a really big fan" in the way Jennifer Lawrence might say about a big star she might meet.)
DoorknobHead There is the Women in Secularism conference. womeninsecularism.org/ I truely wish it was more popular. I often hear from other atheists that it is unnecessary, but there are many issues most atheist groups won't touch upon, and many women speakers who don't get many chances to speak at conferences and other speaker events.
DoorknobHead Matt devolves into asshole mode too quickly for my personal liking and asshole mode isn't convincing. I mean I get it, a lot of the callers are spectacularly obtuse and even aggressive, they earn it, but I don't see the point of ripping into someone when they're being polite and respectful (which I've often seen him do) even if they fail to make their point. Tracie and Jen (and most of the other lads) are way more patient. Tracie and Jen are great debaters... two of the better ones they have.
I'm a big fan of Tracie Harris and it's always a pleasure to listen to her. This gorgeous woman is not only a very impressive advocate for the atheist view of the world but is also a very sensitive person towards people who are often quite hostile to the concept of atheism. I recently listened to her talking to a young man who 'had given himself to Jesus' and just couldn't understand why anyone would be an atheist. Her general approach, her manner and the way in which she showed genuine respect for this young man really impressed me. I have a very high regard for Matt and all of the other contributors on the Atheist Experience but I feel I really must pay special tribute to Tracie.
This is a very good talk. Good, as a newer, outed atheist, to hear. Makes a lot of sense. The questions presented were heartbreaking. Sad, but true: What you say as a human will not trump what another believes God is saying.
I didn't even watch the video, but after reading all these comments I honestly don't want to. It's depressing! I had a great childhood and I was raised in a faith-based household. I was always encouraged to think critically, no pressure.
Would you say the same thing for those kids raised by the Westboro church, or islamic fundamentals that teaches there children to mistreat apostates or b blasphemers? Would you let ken ham and his ilk take over education at all levels, and make a belief in young earth a requisite of citizenship? What if there was Mormon goverments, which prevents you from medicine altogether and relied upon prayer and gods will instead? Glad you had a good space to grow, and acknowledge that many are not harmed by a religious beliefs and dogma, but we wish to speak against those who would n do harm others, and wish the church to have even more secular influence.
Really too bad you skipped the video. It wasn't depressing. It was enlightening and interesting. Maybe you should wait to read the comments until after you've watched and can make up your own mind.
You should think on that though. What is "faith" anyway? Any time I've heard the religious people around me use it it was in the context of "you just have to have faith" when they weren't able to provide sufficient evidence to convince you of something. Now look up "gullibility" in the dictionary. All I ask is that you keep thinking critically and try to avoid taking "you've just got to have faith" as an answer, because it isn't one.
Tracie is the BEST. She has a way of nailing down concepts and pointing out things that make what should have been obvious clear. I hope she will stay on AE for a long time to come. I'd like to see her do more presentations like this, if she's interested. I've learned a lot from both Tracie and Matt about how to handle other people's unfounded assertions about the supernatural.
autofill67 wrote "Every time an atheist argues against God, they use a so-called religion as the basis of their argument rather than the bible itself." ... It doesn't sound like you've ever heard an Atheist argue against God. There are thousands of videos on the web that prove you wrong.
I really like Tracie and Matt... I really hope that they are both on board with critical thinking to the point that they do not buy into the SJW nonsense that is swirling around in the community that they are part of...
dalanology All the controversies that are now common regarding "Islamophobia" and "feminism." Have you heard all of the talk now about "rape culture" and "patriarchy"?
dalanology Wow. Where to begin. Seriously? You think America is a place where rape is frequent, encouraged, condoned? Seriously? You think that women are subjugated? Do you get out much? Do you know many people? Where are these people? You have that view of the people around you?
That a "rape culture," as much we're able to converge in our understanding of it, exists doesn't hinge on rape being encouraged. However, it is frequent, it's effects on victims are minimized in the language people use to describe it, and in some conversations, as when people speak about criminal justice, it is encouraged. I guess I ought to ask if you're a man or woman, and if you're not a woman do you speak to a lot of women about their experience with sexual assault or, for a more specific example, how men approach them? It seems people often don't trust claims that don't reflect their experience, and that's understandable but not reasonable. I mention this because I've heard a lot of men and women downplay the frequency of sexual assault or the ways in which men privilege male sexuality or female sexuality specifically because they haven't seen these things occur. Also, it seems necessary to point out that I didn't make any declarations about either of these in my questions to you. I was asking for your views on them. That your tone became accusing when you assumed I disagreed with you is disappointing and hasn't helped our conversation. When you do that, people become defensive and stop listening to your ideas. Hence, if you self-identify as a skeptic it may help you to assume less about someone's beliefs until they describe them; that will help to hone both your thinking and listening as you engage with people. Please remember that although people may give similar answers, no two people are the same. You can have meaningful conversations with theists who give the same answer, and may bring both over to your way of thinking if you're willing to extend the least charity of allowing that they're actual human beings.
This really makes me want to come out to my family. The only person in my family that knows about my atheism is one of my sisters, who became an atheist after I talked to her about it (she was skeptical before, but undecided). But she’s moved out, and everyone left at home is Christian. I just see so much wrong with their lifestyles and morale that it’s really hard to hold my tongue. But I feel that if I came out as an atheist, the hammer of Christianity would be brought down 1,000 times harder on my younger siblings in order to ensure that they won’t lose their faith.
+Gregg Macey yeah i agree. When you saw her years ago on The Atheist Experience she was much better. But I think her character makes her hot. She kind of reminds me of a 1970`s figure from a film like `The Warriors`. That makes her still hot for me.
+Paul Samartzis Brains are sexy. But, she's totally got this Ellen Ripley vibe going. And, people can say she looks rough all they want, she's just a real lady. No makeup, no frills, not trying to impress anyone with her looks. And that makes her more attractive to people than she'd probably ever know. Plus, that just-woken-up look on a lady is crazy hot.
+palazzo1113 Brains , I agree is very sexy on a woman and I see the Ellen Ripley in her very much so, but mind was going towards a character from 'The Warriors' film. She just looks like she would fit in late 1970's so well. She's a woman that has that attraction to her that I can't explain? I only wish my ex-wife was a little more like her.
I'm so glad to see (hear?) Tracie delivering this talk. It's usually Mat, Mat, Mat. I like listening to Mat, but it is really ggod to hear the other members of the AE team. Thanks!
She's a lovely lady. I couldn't understand what I found fascinating about her, then I realised. She looks like Sigourney Weaver. She is extremely bright and compassionate. Most of all she reasons logically, based on scientific fact.
Those emails are heartbreaking. As atheists, we really need to be aware of potential repercussions on our fellow atheists and use extreme caution with tagging them on social media, even if they appear to be "out" on social media. I occasionally post an atheist related topic, but I customize the posts so my clients don't see it. I certainly don't consider that permission for people to tag me. It pisses me off that people have a problem with us existing and attending conferences. If I were to attend a Christian retreat, I could post it publically with no fear of scolding from anyone or negative effect on my small business. Yet, when I come back from an atheist conference, I first have to decide if I should post at all, then customize it so clients won't see, then deal with family members telling me I shouldn't post "so much atheist stuff". My sister posts bible verses and religious comments every day, and I'm 100% sure no one has ever told her to stop posting "so much Christian stuff"
Dee thats why debates & lectures are so important to get people thinking for a change instead of following religion like sheep there is a great world out there just wasnt created by some silly god
The false precepts of religion are indeed harmful to family life. Great talk by a good thinker, who is also a very kind woman. I'm glad she did this subject. Too bad our institutions of higher education don't teach the confirmed negative effects of religion on families and society!! Keep going Tracy...maybe someday this viewpoint will be more mainstream.
“Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will." Here is happiness recipe that works. * Eat Good Food. * Listen to good Music. * Travel * Love all people as they are. You will be happy and people around you too.
She sounds like she's still not used to speaking in public and she's rocking back and forth which is dizzying to stare at especially @24fps. She has a strong voice and honest which is excellent and will definitely reach out even after the talk.
I was born to Jehovah's Witness parents and plus I'm gay. It was hell. I finally got free by getting a job and a place to live, and what really gets to me is that my brother claims to be a Jehovah's Witness but I'm the one who took care of my dad until he died of cancer, I'm the one who takes care of my mom...constantly giving her money to live on and my brother never calls, never comes by to see her. Religious hypocrisy is just so blatant and it is soothing to listen to youtube videos like this.
stay strong brother
The same in my situation
John Morris stay strong man. I give you the credit. Thank you for taking care of your parents. Having real people give you credit for doing the things you have done is better than you brother pretending to be a good person to a pretend god. So I believe you. Keep up the good work.
Good for you John Morris;that`s a sure way to freedom,seek the truth and you`ll find it or it will find you.I send you Love!
Oh yeah well i ate shrimp and lobster..so i sinned just as bad as you..lol christards 🙄
I love to listen to Tracie. She is unpretentious and so honest in what she says, she cuts through the religious BS and articulates what we all think. All hail the Harris woman!
@John Digsby for how many thousands of years has religion been repeating the same shit! That's religion for ya.
Maybe if religion had better arguments Tracy would have to come up with something new to debunk it. So easy.
Tracie Rocks !
@John Digsby yet religion considers its unchanging rigidity to be a virtue.... No growth, thats theism for ya. You should probably think about how tracie as well as many, if not most atheists were once strongly religious people. Breaking free from faith involves years of intellectual and emotional growth. And now that we are no longer held back by "forbidden knowledge" we are free to expand our understanding far beyond theistic limitations. Ever expanding understanding of the reality we live in, thats atheism for ya! Stuck in the same outmoded unchanging faith based beliefs with no growth, thats religion for ya
The part about having to choose a religion hit home for me. I spent my late teens, twenties and early thirties looking for “the right” religion. Never finding it, of course. It wasn’t until my early thirties that I suddenly realized that I could reject them all! And I became an atheist! It was very liberating!
I went through that too. Then it wasn’t until the internet that I even learned the term atheist.
Tracie is simply fantastic.
I especially appreciate her amazing communication skills on The Atheist Experience.
While everybody is lost in a net of confusion, she realizes what the callers are trying to say and convey difficult concepts in a way that you can grasp the main aspects of it and yet easy to understand.
Simply outstanding!
I grew up in an abusive, alcoholic family. I still managed to feel sorry for my friend that grew up in a religious family that never spoke to one another. I always thought that was very odd, even in comparison to my constantly yelling family. How can a high school kid recognize the dysfunction of both families, but the adults involved couldn't? I don't think the religion was the cause, but it was at least a strong distraction from their dysfunction.
Tracies intelligence and communication skills help create a valuable voice in the movement. Hope she's doing what she wants to do these days.
For as long as I can remember, as a child the absolute highest virtue a person could have was not honesty or kindness, it was faith. In my church, the more devout you were the better a person you were. At my grandmother’s funeral the minister spoke of her greatest strength as being her unshakeable faith.
Why is this? Why should belief, rather than actions be a measure of a person’s worth?
@Steve You think everlything is preordained? That we can't choose what we do? If that were true, thenwhy would anyone try to convert another person into their faith? Why go to church at all? It won't make any difference, using that logic.
@Steve Gods do not exist. They are a man made construct, originating from a time when we did not have explanations for the natural world. Now we do. It is infantile and silly tobelieve such nonsense.
@Steve Why do you peoplw always think there has to be a goal? Why? I think its far more likely that the universe just happened than that an invisible, immortal wizard with superpowers wished it into existence. And that this same wizarsd actually givews a shit about you. There are millions of children who suffer and starve EVERY SINGLE DAY. What a wonderful plan. Yeah, yeah, I know, we cannot be expected to understand such a great and wonderful plan, its beyond us. What that is is an excuse because you know perfectly well that there is no excluse, and you can't justify it any other way. Go, on, believe in your childish shit if you want to. I prefer to be an adult.
@Steve That old silly "| don't have enough faith to be an atheist", argument you all bring out. It doesn't make any sense at all. Being an atheist MEANS taking NOTHING on faith, but on evidence. Prove to me your god exists. As for 55percent of the world's population, that number is dwindling fast as more and more educated people arae seeing the light and giving up superstitious nonsense. 97 percent of scientists do not believe in god. There LIS evedience for the big bang. None at all for the wijzard waving his mlagic wand.
@Steve It will never happen. Because I will be dead. And so will you. Congrats on managing to convert third world countries. That's the best you can do. And by the way, christian websites lie all the time. Common knowledge. Why do you believe this, anyway? Does it make ylou feel all warm and fuzzy? Why is an invisible immortal wizard MORE plausible than natural and proven explanations?
I'm late to the party but I'll still say it:
The thing with those "soft" religions is that we only get told the "nice" things. i've a ex-hindu Friend who explained quite a lot about his religion and didn't understand how we see it as a open nice philosophy.
Yet the same time he seemed to be attrackted to christianity because a all loving god who provides you with hevean in the afterlife if you onle accept him sounds so comferting, but the moment we took a bible and I told him about my experiances with the catholic faith, he was shocked.
I think the problem here is that somehow along the history of humans we decided religions if spoken openly about it have to sound nice and comforting because it's easier to catch flies with honey than shit. But the moment you are hooked you'll get the full law of what is required of you as now you are one of "his children". It's like the kidnapper showing a kid the toy and once you're in the van takes out the knife. We (as on most westerners) have no clue about eastern religion and philosophies and because the only thing we realy get to know (through media and talks) are the nice propaganda they set out to catch people. All religions are superficially nice and cuddly but none I know of is fully accepting of you who are but always demands special behavior in order for you to "get your reward".
If one day religion steps back in the US, I think that Tracie Harris will have a part in the process.
This woman is fantastic...
I'm sorry, Space Ghost 54, maybe it's because I'm french, but I don't understand your note. I agree with you, Tracie Harris could be at the head of Departement of Education, she's smart enough. I hope that, thanks to her, religion will step back in the US like it did in France.
Religion is a dying obsession. Grow up folks. There is a whole Universe out there waiting to be explored. Stop sobbing and start searching.
+Bruce Blake So well said.
Change your apartment, change the world..
Bruce Blake I would be more than overjoyed to board a space ship like the Starship Enterprise or the Millenium Falcon and go flying all about the galaxy looking for new worlds. But I would want God to be with me all the while.
Badger, if you learn to take personal responsibility, you might discover that you won't need imaginary friends to give you courage.
Bruce Blake totally agree with you!!!!
I don't agree with the saying, "I've converted to atheism". It should be: I've reverted back to reality.
Exactly, I was born an atheist and have had no reason to change. My father was born into RC church and insisted that his children not be even baptised.
It's more correct to say "I've deconverted..." because one has had to be converted first as agnosticism/atheism is the default.
Yeah ive always said deconverted... Even though google underlines it in red like its not a real word
This is just my thought, but if any member of my family would reject me for who I am then I wouldn't hesitate to eliminate those relations no matter how much it hurt. It's the same reason why I wasn't to upset to lose friends once I came out, because I realized I never lost anything, those friends were never true friends to begin with.
Here so something to wrap your head around. I am homeless. All my life growing up. I was forced to go to church. But deep in my heart. I knew something was wrong. Saw bunch of bad things from people who claimed to be Christians. But most important. I'm a man of Science. Always have been. I question everything. I was way to afraid of telling anyone. Cause my family is so locked in to Christianity its in sane. Bout there is a time that I went back to God. Hoping that maybe this time. I can have him be in me. And I can walk with him.. But I knew It was a lie. So this time I left and I left for good. Your show have help me. To not be afraid of my choice. I even happy to talk about it out loud. But the problem I have now. Since right now in homeless and staying in a shelter. Its a Christian shelter. Everyday we must attend 7 days a week I must be fed this stuff. I want to question every 7 different pastors that come in there. With the words. Why do think these things are true . but I dare not because I have no other place to go. Try being an Atheist and have to go through that. For me its a nightmare.
EpicBlack Capricorn Stay strong, you know who you are. We do a lot of work with the homeless but feel no need to preach to them - just help. Hopefully, one day, it will be like that for everyone.
EpicBlack Capricorn In other words you are forced to listen to Christian clap trap in order to stay in the shelter. That's a form of blackmail. Evangelical Christians are good at that but chalk it up as saving soul.
Could not had said it better myself.. I dare not say I'm an Atheist. For fear. But I know what's inside of me. I want to challenge everything these pastor say. But I just can't right now. They sure hate Atheist tho.
I can promise you these pastors will have a comeback for everything you say. They will even come up with a biblical quote about those who've turned against their god. Christians often speak of atheists being full of rage so that too could be mentioned. Try focusing on how hard your chair is and how comfortable you can make it seem. You will feel more at peace by changing your focus.
My father was an ordained minister, much more educated than most priests or pastors. He opened his church to the homeless in the evenings as a drop-in center. No mention of anything related to the bible as he knew it would drive them away. Thro his program a bunch of them eventually got their lives back on track and continued on as volunteers.
Very good. I love it when Tracie is on the Atheist Experience.
YES! She's so amazing! So thankful to have her around
The part about Tracie talking about the feeling like you have to choose a religion was really spot on for me. It took a while for it to occur to me that you don't have to choose a religion. I felt that by not choosing I was a bad person. So, I did a lot of research into other religions: Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Scientology, Judaism, etc. I was even Deist for a while, probably a really common transition for atheists. None of them seemed like a good fit. It wasn't until I started watching atheist youtube channels and saw other atheists in my community that I felt comfortable with the idea of not having a religion. I think that's why it is so important to come out as a non-believer, as long as it is safe for you to do so.
Amber Wilds Spot on, Amber. I feel safe mentioning my atheism when the subject comes up, and I believe it's important to do so. I also understand how it can be less safe for others to do so, which makes it even more important for those of us who can do so to just come right out and say it.
LesignerGirl It's tragic how contentious atheism still is in the States. In most European countries it doesn't even raise an eyebrow 😑
+Ann Nee
So true, I'm Scandinavian -.and even thou I'm from a very religious family it never hurt me one bit coming out as an atheist!
If religion comes up at a social gathering or with clients at work, I have no problem saying I'm an atheist!
People barely raises an eyebrow.....
Many of us lost our faith due to using logic, though some of us took a lot longer to accept it. I lost quite a few friends when I would state that we humans have to live by a higher standard than God himself has to live by. We are considered inhuman if we allow suffering when we could prevent it or end it, yet God not only allows it, he causes it if you believe he controls the natural disasters on Earth. My friends looked at me as if I had lost my mind, just how could I not see that God loves us? When I pointed out the double standard, they said Satan had possessed me. Granted, these people were evangelicals that I worked with, not Catholics that I was raised with. The Catholics I know don't believe in a literal bible, which is why the evangelicals where I live think Catholics are going to hell as well. Brainwashing is bad.
One of the best Speeches I've heard. Tracie Harris is an excellent speaker and needs to be heard more!
Thank You Tracie for All you Do!
What an informative presentation! Tracie Harris is a national treasure! Many thanks to San Jose Atheists for making this possible!
Well they begin with love and if that doesn't work they pull out the fire and brimstone.
That only proves the lovebombing was always a lie.
I miss Tracie and hope she’s doing well.
I agree! I actively looked her up to hear her again! I hope to see her face on a show again, spreading her intellect and knowledge! She's incredible
1:07:00 You begin talking about choosing any religion, as long as you choose one.
I asked my Dad what he would think if I decided to become a Buddhist, because I find their way of life more peaceful and tolerant.
With a wince, he responds "well... I guess as long as you're not an atheist."
I told him I'm very sorry to hear that, because I've got some bad news.
There was a little awkwardness for about a week, and he said he would seek "spiritual guidance" for me.
I believe he truly accepts me the way I am, but the topic does not come up any more. He is still as loving as ever. And I feel great to finally have this off my chest.
My mother's mother, however, told my mom that she was responsible for me going to hell... And you can imagine this put my mother under a tremendous amount of stress.
I scheduled a time with my grandparents to discuss how I feel and why. I politely challenged their points of view, after telling them I find what they said to my mother to be unacceptable, so here is their chance.
Ultimately I asked them to pray that God reveals himself to me (Thanks Matt Dillahunty). And the discussion has not come up again. Yet they, like my dad, continue to be as loving as ever.
Your privileged to have that kind of family. most of other atheist like me stay inside the closet because of all bad things that could happen to us the moment we came out.
Recently, I told my roommate I'm an atheist and she thought I worshipped Satan. I'm dead serious. Unfortunately, she has never once thought for herself or investigated outside of her religion. What ever her pastor says, she accepts it hook, line, and sinker.
Jared Combs - atheist to Satan worship- your roommate must see that that’s a great leap.
Tracie, You've helped me so much on overcoming my home schooled, religious upbringing. Love you on TAE!
If God is so powerful way did he make atheists?
Tracie is such a great communicator.
I agree. Tracie always keeps me interested and appears to be an intelligent person who seems to have similar beliefs and values to me. Except, I'm grateful to have not had to deal with being inundated nearly as badly by the religious folk up here, growing up. Sadly my children had to deal with being told they weren't allowed to visit a friend's house because they were white and not Muslim. Those are the same children who would tell my kids (they couldn't understand that my children are atheists from birth), but they loved to tell my kids what was against their religion and spoil the holidays we celebrate. These same children went to the mall and other stores and stole. Hypocrites much?
This is quite old, but as a Canadian with friends who have moved to the US, their atheist or lack of religious views can be a challenge for them.. I'm glad there are people like Tracie out there.
@@meowiekittie
@Wendy. What was jesus relationship with God
@@pastpresent2223 They're all just stories of people who may, or more likely DIDN'T exist.
@@pastpresent2223 I have ZERO interest in reading your story books.
@@meowiekittie
@Wendy, I had zero interest in reading history books myself, but I still had to in school. History was mandatory.
Tracie, when I came out as an atheist, it not only hurt me with family but it also impacted my business. Thank you for being you! Been a huge help on this guy here.
basically the Church, Mosque or Temple is put ahead of the family.
This is a great talk. I'm sharing it with my fellow ex-Jehovah's Witnesses. Thanks to Tracie and to San Jose Atheists for posting. :)
comedian kurt (something) is a hilarious former Jeh Witness.
+raleighman3000 Kurt Metzger
Word
Ok, so I've heard so many different story tellings by JW's "themselves" on this issue:
Based on their understanding of scriptures such as Revelation 14:1-4, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 faithful Christians go to heaven to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God.
I am not barking on you but please explain. I don't understand why in the world all this door to door knocking, the fatal compulsion of knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, and then, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking, knocking some more until one is absolutely furious and has to them to go the fuck away.
Why such an attempt to convert if, the fact remains, that only 144,000 faithful Christians go to heaven to rule with Christ in the kingdom of God.
As of 2018, Jehovah's Witnesses reported a monthly average membership of approximately 8.36 million actively involved in preaching, with a peak of 8.58 million.
Who is going to be the 140,000 JW's that will be picked because I know for a fact that no Christian, Jew, Muslim or heathen are part of that 144,000? Will it be like the Texas Lotto?
Lotto made for Texas but all can play and all can win. Screw the Texans, huh?
That leaves a hell of a lot of millions-JW's out of the land of silk and money...
No, seriously, you being an X-JW, I figured I could ask you and get an honest answer.
Tracie has hit the nail on the head in all areas that she has discussed. Excellent lecture Tracie.
39:40 In a nutshell all of my pain of being a 'good' Christian kid.
"If mom and dad knew who I really was they would reject me. They "love" me, but that's not me that they love"
Terrific talk, Tracie!! (accidental alliteration, actually) .. great points about the family values of many religious groups being, in fact, hateful and harmful. And that softening the hard line religious behaviors (such as "disowning" non-believing family members) from within the religion is perhaps the most practical remedy short-term .. if we can't manage to achieve the preferable mass deconversion to secular values. Your study and out-reach efforts are greatly appreciated!
I normally see Matt doing this sort of thing but Tracie is great!
It wouldn't surprise me at all if someone at the church told those children that their dad was going to hell. When I was a 1st grader in Virginia, we prayed in school (even though it had been illegal for a few years by then) and the morning prayer was "The Lord's Prayer". My teacher, like many people around there, was a Baptist, and my family were Catholic. So one day I asked my teacher why we weren't say the prayer right - because the Catholic version is slightly different from the Baptist, and this truly sweet lady asked me if my family were Papists! To which I said, "No, we're Catholics." not understanding what the hell a "Papist" was at 6 years old. And she told me in the most gentle, concerned tone that you can imagine, that I and all my family were going to hell if we did not get born again in Jesus.
a baptist church bus used to roll through our neighborhood every sunday to pick up kids, when i was about 7. we'd always hit the deck when the driver knocked on our door. those freaks burned effigy dolls to illustrate hell. fuck em.
raleighman3000
That is sick, but not as sick as what a friend of mine told me he went through. He told me (so this is hearsay, but I trust him) that as a boy his parents sent him to a Bible camp every year, and one of the things they had there was a steel elevated walkway over a fire pit.
They spent their last night around a huge bonfire, being told stories about hell and damnation, and had to walk (not run) over that walkway to experience the fires of hell and the choking fumes, while loudspeakers played recordings of agonized screaming.
They couldn't wear rubber soled shoes for this because the walkway was too hot and would melt them. He said that the first couple of years he got minor burns on his feet, then he got smart and brought an old pair of his dad's work boots to camp, which were big enough to stuff socks under his feet to protect them.
Sadly, he is still an evangelical, and the reason he told me the story was to convince me that if I had the slightest idea how bad hell was, I would be in church every week. So the story, if true, is just an example of how effective this terror can be.
+Pat Doyle thats sad, he drank the kool-aid. child abuse victims often choose that same course.
raleighman3000
Not surprising - their god is the abusive father of all time.
+Pat Doyle I wish I could like this AND unlike it!
The soccer/ piano practice is perfect.
My mother was and remains a Catholic. She never bought into the whole we were born in sin crap. She always told myself, and my brother and my sister that we were good people who by in large didn't have anything to be ashamed for.
This is the best sermon I’ve ever heard
Thank you for all your hard work Tracy. Thank you San Jose for setting this up.
This is awesome. My favourite episodes of the Atheist Experience are Tracie episodes. She's so sharp, articulate and compassionate.
There are atheist, skeptic, and freethinker groups all over the US that you can find on Meetup. After hearing what emotional torment religious families cause for unbelieving members, I strongly encourage you all to reach out and find a supportive group.
Tracie is fabulous!
Favulous is Tracelay?
+Bluemonsoon
Aaaawwwhhh, how cute, a religious troll - now go crawl back under your bridge and don't come out again until you've learned how to behave!
Bluemonsoon why are you insulting her as a person? If you don't like what she sais say just that. Why does it bother you she is a woman?
Bluemonsoon, excellent comments. Let the Christian love flow. Jackass
@Bluemonsoon You must be a fundamentalist whom seems perfectly fine with the idea of a God who sends people to hell to suffer for all eternity with no hope of reprieve. That seems like an extremely unsympathetic, jealous, vengeful, vindictive God to me.
This is so valuable Tracie; thank you.
As a Brit I find it absolutely bizarre that being an atheist is spoken of in terms of "coming out".
Truly, it's a literal head-shaker.
I know,it's bonkers isn't it.Athiesm is pretty much the default position here.
All four of my children ”hated” my religion (Mormonism) and became atheists before I got smart and became an anti-Mormon** and an atheist myself. It's hard to admit all my children were so much smarter than me. At first, I though my children were going to become really bad people, but they all turned out to be very good.
I don't dislike most Mormon individuals, but I don't have respect for their beliefs. I don't respect my own beliefs, because I’m open to change
I dont really think it comes down to being smarter. Exposure or lack there of can be a huge factor. I was a perfectly honest and reasonably intelligent christian for 26 years before i had my head pulled out of the sand by someone asking me questions i had never had to answer before. Your kids got exposed to new ideas and then exposed you to those ideas, and ALL of you were smart enough to see reason in the end.
Everybody is my people. Whatever is being done to somebody is being done to me. Religious thought is cold indifference to others. Gr8! Peace ☮💜
I'll never forget Tracie's story about her pious grandma. At the very least, it is said that religion is supposed to comfort people. I've heard this from well-meaning new age or even atheist people who don't like confronting religious people. Don't criticize because they get comfort from it. We've all heard this. However, Tracie's grandma on her deathbed was terrified that she might go to hell because she might not have been pious enough during her life. Talk about a warped psychotic belief system that would terrorize people on their deathbed. Or cause some gay people to commit suicide because they couldn't handle reconciling their religion, their family and their sexual orientation. Fucking scumbag religious systems.
I am by birth and continued cultural choice a Scot, but since the reign of Gerald the Pardoner I have been a citizen of the USA. Strangely enough, in troubled Northern Ireland, I had been a devout member of a couple of decent "harmless" liberal Presbyterian congregations. The ministers of these even condemned the extremist Presbyterian Rev. Ian Paisley, and had little respect for Billy Graham's "crusades".
The reputation for being "good" is somewhat self fulfilling. If ordinary decent folk think that Church attendance is what Good Folk do, that's what they'll do, and by their own benevolent nature, may very well do good, for which religion gets credit in their own minds, although it has nothing to do with more than a smidgen of religious doctrine.
Just as we ought not to judge a religion by the extraordinary wickedness of a few of its leaders, there is also no reason to judge it by the good deeds of even a majority of its members. The question is whether the doctrine inclines people to do good or evil.
The tale of the Prodigal Son, or that of equal pay for those who worked all day, and those who turned up at the 11th hour, if earnestly believed, are obviously mischievous.
The notion that your evildoing can be wiped out if you change your mind at the last minute is inherently unjust.
Donald Trump ought not to be forgiven FOUR bankruptcies.
I have brothers & sisters. Only one of my siblings is not an Atheist. Each of us came to secular conclusions independently, and I first discovered our father was a life-long Atheist when he was 96 years old! Tracie's correct to point out that open communication about religion & Atheism is advantageous. I make a practice of telling people whom I meet that I'm an Atheist fairly soon after meeting them; I figure that many will see that their stereotype will be challenged by my behavior as a good honest person. Oddly enough, I often find that people I meet are also Atheists & glad to open-up about what was long considered a taboo. Generally, I don't get much grief about my 'dis-belief', and often just get questions that I'm happy to answer. Tracie's observation that Atheists are poorly counted is spot-on. If Americans really knew what the word means, and they really examined their own doubts very carefully, the percentage would be much higher than claimed. Outspoken Atheists, especially if tactful but direct, are opening the dialogue that will blunt false notions about Atheism as anything threatening or worthy of contempt.
+SIMKINETICS That's why I call nasty names just as often as when I was a Christian. Meaning hardly ever. I hate atheists who say whatever they want. It doesn't help.
Nice story!
She's top notch. Keep up the good work plz Tracie. best regards and thanks, D.A., NYC
I'm actively pursuing a Tracie Harris type of gal, but there's no substitute for the original, apparently!
Intelligent women are so attractive.
The more I date, the more I realize a smart woman is the only type of women I want to be with.
Intelligent women find dating pretty much impossible.
Met Plenty dated none. It's impossible...
It's not cool or attractive to be intelligent/rational in society for the most part.
Tracie, thank you so much for your work! I grew up home schooled in an orthodox community, and I have benefited so much from the show!
Brilliant as always, Tracie
I love Tracie so much! And I’m really impressed that she actually responded to me, considering how many emails and messages she must get all the time.
Fear not love drives most religions.
Religionfree
keep the love, but ditch the nonsense. the sooner that happens, the better we will All be
Fear keeps people in those pews, giving tithe, and brainwashing their kids early on to keep doing the same.
An amazing talk by Tracy Harris. All the specific harmful effects of religion need to be addressed this way, combined with the explanation of why we can be certain it wouldn't happen if we took another approach, here being the family put first as the better alternative to religion and having alternative methods for bonding.
However, at the 1 hour mark, Tracy spoke about a kid who felt she had let down her mother by being the only one of her siblings left going to church with her mum. I don't think Tracy has stressed enough how devastating such a thought is for a child who loves her mother and thinks this every day, all day.
I think Tracy should have reminded the audience of what she said at the start; that kids like that fear being rejected by their parent(s) and already feel rejected for who they are and feel loved for someone they are not.
Those children feel like unloved, rejected failures. Those are not healthy emotions for a young human still in the process of developing the brain. I don't think I need to add that religion is harmful and that it should be stopped.
Edit: Oops, I noticed that Tracie is typed with ie. Sorry Tracie :) I'm a terrible fan and stalker; I still didn't know how to type your name :p
This is an excellent talk. Reminded me of the time my brother was bragging to me how his three sons turned out because he raised them in the mormon church. I said to him: "I raised my four kids on my own WITHOUT religion. And, they all turned out to be positive, productive and liberally minded people." And, I would tell him later, that when my wife left the family, the church was only interested as long as i attended. Once we demonstrated we would not sit in their pews [as Ms. Harris suggests well in this video], they moved along to easier prey. I strongly agree: religion is VERY harmful to families.
To lie or not to lie. Consider life 5 years hence. If you lie, you will be right where you are now. If you tell the truth, hateful people will fall from your life. New people will come into your social circle. There will be no more pressure to lie.
that was the best clear explanation I have heard to date that shows the way religion is harmful to families and relationships.
I find it admirable that people can sit through church. I go nuts there and couldn’t bring myself to ever want to go. I must admire someone with that much patience for make believe.
It isn't admirable. They chant nonsense, indoctrinate their children to chant nonsense, and point away from science. Church is terrible.
Awesome! I've always liked Tracie. Her and Jen are my favorite hosts....other than Matt Dillahunty of course, who I think is *_the_* best atheist communicator America has at the moment. But it's very cool to see Tracie giving a talk of her very own. :)
That was a great talk, definitely worth watching. Tracy is very smart.
I've got heaps of mates that don't believe any of the religious claims yet call themselves Catholic because they got brought up Catholic, like it's their race or something.
Sad/outrage... despair. Christianity kept me from talking to my parents, my Dad being the one chewing on it like a dog with a bone. I'm sad, as my Mom was such a sweet innocent, and it didn't allow her to talk to her precious little boy for the last decade of her life.
55:00 It reminds me of an old Simpsons episode:
"Homer, don't ask me to choose between my man and my god because you just can't win."
Mandragora mmmmmmm sacrilicious
+Mandragora:
In that episode, one winter morning, Homer decides to not go to church and he likes the fact that he didn't waste 1 day of his week and decides not to go anymore. On another sunday, his cigar falls to the ground and he goes to sleep. His house catches fire. He thinks that the jewish god did it to punish him.
Classic Simpsons was super!
So much respect for her brilliant mind and calm demeanor amidst mind-boggling callers on the Atheist Experience. I want to meet her in person
I find it hard to listen to these stories as it makes me so angry what religion does to people and their families. I really despise religion and those who think it's so great need to wake up to the harm it does. More videos like this will help to rid the planet of this bs.
@razumfrackle Look at statistics, it is working specially over the past 12 years. Information technology are bringing real knowledge to people and it makes more and more thinking about facts versus fiction. The days that the churches ruled the communities are disappearing fast. Islam will catch up later once there is freedom to media. They are still doing what you want to do and that is to suppress alternative ideas and knowledge so that your superstition can rule supreme.
@razumfrackle All these terrible days were learned from Religion and the God of the Bible, the Koran and the Torah. Please read your Bible and study more history to get facts and knowledge.
Tracie, you are inspiring.
What a great job of pulling perspective together in unmasking the illusion so difficult to put a finger on otherwise.
Wrapping the poison, just perfect!
Sorry, but there is no wisdom in religious nonsense. 102 or 70, a good life is measured by how it was enjoyed and how it made this world a little bit better. Life begins at perception and ends when the brain shuts down. Anything before or after is of no consequence to the individual. We're born, we live, we die, the end. That's life. Live with it!
This is one of the presentations I listen to when I'm not in the greatest mood. I don't personally know many atheist who acknowledge the harm of religion, mainly ones who just don't subscribe.
You're awesome Tracie! But these stories break my heart. I feel very lucky. My family is Christian. I'm an atheist. They don't care. They don't tell me I'm going to hell or that I'm a sinner. They make it real easy to be myself. My heart goes out to all these people. So sad.
When my partner and I were considering having children, we asked everyone we knew why they had had kids. These are intelligent, well educated people. Some of them not religious. Not one of them could come up with a reason other than, "that was what you do after you get married."
In Canada, if tax payers money is involved, religion isn't allowed as churches don't pay land taxes on the land the church sits on.
Noahs Ark That's how it's supposed to be in the U.S., too, according to the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Unfortunately, a lot of Christian conservatives in the U.S. either don't understand this or don't care. In the Q&A section of this video, Tracie spoke of a Jehovah's Witness who refused to see a doctor because it went against his religious beliefs. Part of me would like to see a large corporation run by Jehovah's Witnesses refuse all medical insurance for their employees, because maybe then a lot of Christian conservatives would see how bad the Hobby Lobby ruling was. Then again, they might not see that connection.
My sisters gal friend, when a teen, caught her heel in the spokes of a motorcycle. She needed transfusions which the family denied, associating it with cannibalism. She was made a ward of the court so the surgery could proceed. Without the transfusions she was going to die. None of us kids could understand how a family would let their child die because of religious beliefs.
Noahs Ark I think they're following what they believe to be their god's will. I'm sure they were very much hoping it would be their god's will for their daughter to survive, but feared what might happen to their and/or their daughter's eternal souls if they had gone against what they believed to be their god's will.
I have only been approached by Jehovah's Witnesses once, and they seemed to understand the verse about shaking the dust off their feet. This was a good thing, but withholding a life-saving medical procedure can be very harmful indeed.
I'm glad your sister's friend was able to receive the medical help she needed to save her life.
I'm a little shocked to hear how problematic it can be in the US to be an atheist. In Germany it's really no big deal. I grew up in an untypically religious environment and still - not much of a deal... My best wishes to all the atheists in the States!
Tracie Harris and Jen Peeples are my favorites from the Atheist Experience TV Show (but I do not really know why). It may already be changing quite a bit, but the males on major atheists panels and conventions often site the lack of female speakers, and hope for and encourage more women to be the lead speakers (or for women to be the majority or all of the speakers at those events). I hope Tracie and others will morph into the positions or encourage other women to fill those panel seats. It would be interesting to have a women only atheist tour similar to what the males have been doing. I'd like to see Tracie and Jen be two of them on that four-horsewomen type stage.
Yippe Tracie!
(here I want to gush and say "I'm a really big fan" in the way Jennifer Lawrence might say about a big star she might meet.)
DoorknobHead
Tracie and Jen are eloquent, insightful, adorable humans beings.
I got Hitch Slapped! Never expected I would ever get Hitch-Slapped, but I'd consider that an honor any day.
DoorknobHead There is the Women in Secularism conference. womeninsecularism.org/ I truely wish it was more popular. I often hear from other atheists that it is unnecessary, but there are many issues most atheist groups won't touch upon, and many women speakers who don't get many chances to speak at conferences and other speaker events.
DoorknobHead Matt devolves into asshole mode too quickly for my personal liking and asshole mode isn't convincing. I mean I get it, a lot of the callers are spectacularly obtuse and even aggressive, they earn it, but I don't see the point of ripping into someone when they're being polite and respectful (which I've often seen him do) even if they fail to make their point. Tracie and Jen (and most of the other lads) are way more patient. Tracie and Jen are great debaters... two of the better ones they have.
Doorknobhead, Look into Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Very prominent female athiest.
I'm a big fan of Tracie Harris and it's always a pleasure to listen to her. This gorgeous woman is not only a very impressive advocate for the atheist view of the world but is also a very sensitive person towards people who are often quite hostile to the concept of atheism. I recently listened to her talking to a young man who 'had given himself to Jesus' and just couldn't understand why anyone would be an atheist. Her general approach, her manner and the way in which she showed genuine respect for this young man really impressed me. I have a very high regard for Matt and all of the other contributors on the Atheist Experience but I feel I really must pay special tribute to Tracie.
autofill67 wrote "This is ludicrous and illogical."
...
I couldn't have summed up your comment any better than you just did ... now go away.
This is a very good talk. Good, as a newer, outed atheist, to hear. Makes a lot of sense. The questions presented were heartbreaking.
Sad, but true: What you say as a human will not trump what another believes God is saying.
I didn't even watch the video, but after reading all these comments I honestly don't want to. It's depressing! I had a great childhood and I was raised in a faith-based household. I was always encouraged to think critically, no pressure.
Lily Well... you got lucky. If all people did it like this I don't think nearly as many people would have a problem with religion 😑
Would you say the same thing for those kids raised by the Westboro church, or islamic fundamentals that teaches there children to mistreat apostates or b blasphemers? Would you let ken ham and his ilk take over education at all levels, and make a belief in young earth a requisite of citizenship? What if there was Mormon goverments, which prevents you from medicine altogether and relied upon prayer and gods will instead?
Glad you had a good space to grow, and acknowledge that many are not harmed by a religious beliefs and dogma, but we wish to speak against those who would n do harm others, and wish the church to have even more secular influence.
Really too bad you skipped the video. It wasn't depressing. It was enlightening and interesting. Maybe you should wait to read the comments until after you've watched and can make up your own mind.
You should think on that though. What is "faith" anyway? Any time I've heard the religious people around me use it it was in the context of "you just have to have faith" when they weren't able to provide sufficient evidence to convince you of something. Now look up "gullibility" in the dictionary.
All I ask is that you keep thinking critically and try to avoid taking "you've just got to have faith" as an answer, because it isn't one.
Lily are you ever foolish better wake up to whays going on & and I dont mean in so silly church
Thank you, Tracie. I came from a Church of Christ background as well.
Church of Christ teaches false doctrine so I see why Tracie was never saved. I pray you both find the Truth one day.
Happy apostate day!
Tracie is the BEST. She has a way of nailing down concepts and pointing out things that make what should have been obvious clear. I hope she will stay on AE for a long time to come. I'd like to see her do more presentations like this, if she's interested. I've learned a lot from both Tracie and Matt about how to handle other people's unfounded assertions about the supernatural.
autofill67 wrote "Every time an atheist argues against God, they use a so-called religion as the basis of their argument rather than the bible itself."
...
It doesn't sound like you've ever heard an Atheist argue against God. There are thousands of videos on the web that prove you wrong.
Thank you for what you do. You are making a positive difference.
I really like Tracie and Matt... I really hope that they are both on board with critical thinking to the point that they do not buy into the SJW nonsense that is swirling around in the community that they are part of...
drstrangelove09 Like what kind?
dalanology All the controversies that are now common regarding "Islamophobia" and "feminism." Have you heard all of the talk now about "rape culture" and "patriarchy"?
I've heard the talk, yes... what about it? What do you find inaccurate in the notions that American culture includes patriarchal or rape apologia?
dalanology Wow. Where to begin. Seriously? You think America is a place where rape is frequent, encouraged, condoned? Seriously? You think that women are subjugated? Do you get out much? Do you know many people? Where are these people? You have that view of the people around you?
That a "rape culture," as much we're able to converge in our understanding of it, exists doesn't hinge on rape being encouraged. However, it is frequent, it's effects on victims are minimized in the language people use to describe it, and in some conversations, as when people speak about criminal justice, it is encouraged.
I guess I ought to ask if you're a man or woman, and if you're not a woman do you speak to a lot of women about their experience with sexual assault or, for a more specific example, how men approach them?
It seems people often don't trust claims that don't reflect their experience, and that's understandable but not reasonable. I mention this because I've heard a lot of men and women downplay the frequency of sexual assault or the ways in which men privilege male sexuality or female sexuality specifically because they haven't seen these things occur.
Also, it seems necessary to point out that I didn't make any declarations about either of these in my questions to you. I was asking for your views on them. That your tone became accusing when you assumed I disagreed with you is disappointing and hasn't helped our conversation. When you do that, people become defensive and stop listening to your ideas. Hence, if you self-identify as a skeptic it may help you to assume less about someone's beliefs until they describe them; that will help to hone both your thinking and listening as you engage with people.
Please remember that although people may give similar answers, no two people are the same. You can have meaningful conversations with theists who give the same answer, and may bring both over to your way of thinking if you're willing to extend the least charity of allowing that they're actual human beings.
This really makes me want to come out to my family. The only person in my family that knows about my atheism is one of my sisters, who became an atheist after I talked to her about it (she was skeptical before, but undecided). But she’s moved out, and everyone left at home is Christian. I just see so much wrong with their lifestyles and morale that it’s really hard to hold my tongue. But I feel that if I came out as an atheist, the hammer of Christianity would be brought down 1,000 times harder on my younger siblings in order to ensure that they won’t lose their faith.
Attendance to church is admirable because it's so low nowadays...
golan So relatively rare things are automatically good? That seems like a flawed argument 😁
Tracie is my absolute favorite on the atheist expirience ! such an intelligent and polite,funny and beautiful human being ! great sense of humor
Tracie is hot
+Paul Samartzis She USED to be. Take a look at her in this lecture, she is lookin rough jack.
+Gregg Macey yeah i agree. When you saw her years ago on The Atheist Experience she was much better. But I think her character makes her hot. She kind of reminds me of a 1970`s figure from a film like `The Warriors`. That makes her still hot for me.
+Paul Samartzis I concur.
+Paul Samartzis Brains are sexy. But, she's totally got this Ellen Ripley vibe going. And, people can say she looks rough all they want, she's just a real lady. No makeup, no frills, not trying to impress anyone with her looks. And that makes her more attractive to people than she'd probably ever know. Plus, that just-woken-up look on a lady is crazy hot.
+palazzo1113 Brains , I agree is very sexy on a woman and I see the Ellen Ripley in her very much so, but mind was going towards a character from 'The Warriors' film. She just looks like she would fit in late 1970's so well. She's a woman that has that attraction to her that I can't explain? I only wish my ex-wife was a little more like her.
I'm so glad to see (hear?) Tracie delivering this talk. It's usually Mat, Mat, Mat. I like listening to Mat, but it is really ggod to hear the other members of the AE team. Thanks!
I have such a girl-crush on Tracie!
Bad Girl I have a boy-crush on her :D
Deconverted Man Hands off, pervert. She's MINE!
teppolundgren I call dibs
Deconverted Man Then prepare to step outside, sir.
teppolundgren Othello is an inside game. I fight with my mind sir.
She's a lovely lady. I couldn't understand what I found fascinating about her, then I realised. She looks like Sigourney Weaver. She is extremely bright and compassionate. Most of all she reasons logically, based on scientific fact.
You go, Tracy! Tell 'em what true family values are!
shes so honest , she really tells it like it is
Those emails are heartbreaking. As atheists, we really need to be aware of potential repercussions on our fellow atheists and use extreme caution with tagging them on social media, even if they appear to be "out" on social media. I occasionally post an atheist related topic, but I customize the posts so my clients don't see it. I certainly don't consider that permission for people to tag me.
It pisses me off that people have a problem with us existing and attending conferences. If I were to attend a Christian retreat, I could post it publically with no fear of scolding from anyone or negative effect on my small business. Yet, when I come back from an atheist conference, I first have to decide if I should post at all, then customize it so clients won't see, then deal with family members telling me I shouldn't post "so much atheist stuff". My sister posts bible verses and religious comments every day, and I'm 100% sure no one has ever told her to stop posting "so much Christian stuff"
Dee thats why debates & lectures are so important to get people thinking for a change instead of following religion like sheep there is a great world out there just wasnt created by some silly god
The false precepts of religion are indeed harmful to family life. Great talk by a good thinker, who is also a very kind woman. I'm glad she did this subject. Too bad our institutions of higher education don't teach the confirmed negative effects of religion on families and society!! Keep going Tracy...maybe someday this viewpoint will be more mainstream.
“Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will."
Here is happiness recipe that works.
* Eat Good Food.
* Listen to good Music.
* Travel
* Love all people as they are. You will be happy and people around you too.
She sounds like she's still not used to speaking in public and she's rocking back and forth which is dizzying to stare at especially @24fps. She has a strong voice and honest which is excellent and will definitely reach out even after the talk.
Fabulous, Tracie!
Super talk Tracie. This is better than any religios sermon I have ever heard.
any time Tracie is on AE I have to watch it twice, she just fits into the show perfectly
Tracie is so smart and down to Earth. Charming; such a beautiful person. Love her! 🌸