Where are all those beautiful models now? They cant have just thrown them away? To have lived and worked in California in the late forties and fifties must have been wonderful. Beautiful cars, no crowds and everything seemed possible.
you forget that we had air raid sirens every monday at noon, Eisenhower encouraged everyone to build a bomb shelter in case of nuclear attack, Joe McCarthy's witch hunt for communists, Khrushchev pounding the table at the UN screaming "we will bury you" "Happy Days" wasn't that happy.
Many years ago, Early 1970's If memory serves, there was one of these at Boeing field in Renton Washington at the southern tip of lake Washington. (the runway actually went down into the lake so a seaplane could taxi in-out of the lake) It, the Sea Dart, was just sitting there out in the open by the lake. crawled all over the thing and up inside where the twin jets would have been. I don't know where it is now and wonder if that's the one that the you helped restore? The time frame would be about right.
my father worked on that project. I remember that model, he in 1965 and gave it to me. He said he designed the one forward ski that replaced the two skis. thanks!
Glad to see this video. The plane was "news" when I was still in grade school and this video offered more information then I was able to acquire to date.
Thanks for another cool video. I loved the views of historic San Diego. Takes me back to when people were more polite and aviation was innovative and creative. All those Convair buildings were later used to build the tomahawk cruise missile and they are now gone; just an airport parking lot.
Nothing like the romantic image of the mid 20th century engineer at work with his clubmasters and skinny black ties. What a time of innovation. What a shame nothing much ever came of this.
Actually the Sea Dart, the Sea Master, and Marlin was a concept called Seaplane Striking Force. Unlike Aircraft Carriers. You could have supply, fighter, and bomber at forward bases, dispersed in harbours, islands, lakes. Unlike an aircraft carrier you would be able to still have flexability in attack. And be easier to defend. There was nothing dubious about the concept. It was limited by 50's technology. The F-35 is probably far more dubious.
My Dad Al Sharp was the foreman of the experimental aircraft dept. at Convair in San Diego. He was involved with the actual. Sea Dart, not these models .
Yeah those old movie soundtracks get so hinky they could trigger a hippie into flashback mode. I was watching an pre-WW II French movie on aviation pioneers last night, it's soundtrack was just all over the place, but the sentiment and content was fun.
A fairly accepted "Eastern Block" technical periodical (perhaps bi-weekly) in 1957 May(?) had a short report about Convair going further than the Sea dart. Planning a submarine capable version! Outside looks same but a little bigger plane that can dive and hide subsurface!
I heard one of the design changes early in the full scale craft was the widening of the cockpit. The earlier craft were too narrow to accommodate a test pilot with balls big enough.
One of the test pilots who flew the Sea Dart said it was one of the most dangerous things hes ever done. The design was very flawed with the skis, and the eventual breakup of the one prototype that killed one of the test pilots. Theres a Peninsula Seniors video with him telling his pilot history..worth a watch!
In the late 50’s, the comic strip ”Buz Sawyer”, that featured a Guy who worked as a testpilot and spy, had him fly a similar aircraft. The difference was that it had No skis and was much smaller. Also, it could land on a ”soft deck” on land.
This is fascinating and I dare say rare footage of the development of a unique aircraft. I was just thinking that I would love to have a couple of the old paper sketches and drawings as from my viewpoint these are as beautiful as any artwork hanging in museums. P.S. There is a punch-card computer shown at 4:57 I wonder how they used it to crunch the flight data calculations and what the output would have looked like? What a great job these guys had.
Yep, and we had to do all that fun analog testing of designs with physical models instead of in computers. It was slower, it was less efficient, but, it had to be more fun.
A fascinating concept; it's a shame that it went nowhere. One of the surviving Sea Darts is on display outside at the (now closed) Willow Grove NAS, I drive past it every day.
You would think that a billionaire would want a flying submarine rather than a separate yacht, sub and jet. Imagine the fun times abord a amphibious flying submarine. It could go anywhere and do anything. I wish I could build it, fly it, sail it, drive it and dive it. Fun!
One of the prototypes disintegrated over San Diego Harbor during a demonstration flight for top brass. About the same time the problem of basing supersonic aircraft on carriers was solved. My father caught two photos of the exploding plane with a 4x5 before it hit the water. He was stationed at the Coast Guard bass on Harbor Drive.
A good example of when the world changes, things are overcome..... Few understand this because it requires system thinking. Fewer care to exercise that way. Even fewer are engaged in trying to guide human destiny KNOWING these things. Explains a lot why we are in the hole we are today.... Specifically, missiles became the armament of the sub and planes were outclassed and outdated. All in under 10 years! BE thankful you can see this - music does suck but damn, great information!!!!
Was stationed at North Island my last 2 years in the Navy 1996-1998. Was nice there but expensive. Of course this video is before l was born. The Seadart crashed in the San Diego bay killing one of the test pilots
It's easy to slap a jet engine onto a proven platform. I could mount small jets on a 1920 Curtiss float plane and have it fly. It IS unique in that it was built ground-up to be a SUPERSONIC interceptor.
panda44r Both built as water borne jet fighters......No difference whatsoever. Also, the SR plane was from scratch, XF2y wasn't....but the biggest point would be that the SR was of a time when Supersonics were unknown. The fact is a) It isn't unique, b) It wasn't first.
SuperAncientmariner I've always admired British aerospace advances, but they've apparently "given up" in the last 40 years or so. You are not alone in bemoaning this, and cling to history... Spitfires, Merlin engines, Whittle. And then, anything that comes post WW2 is some sort of "bad copy" or "imitation" of British engineering. Trust me, not everything is based upon UK efforts. I'm glad Boeing didn't rush a 707 to compete with the Comet.
KurtB It's funny you should mention that. When the investigations into the causes of the Comet failures were announced, both Boeing and Douglas said that if it had not happened to the Comet, it would (not might) have happened to them. Also, the way that air crash investigations are carried out (including rebuilding wreckage etc) are all down to the way the Comet investigations were carried out. Regarding anything "post war"......if we make a claim of British involvement.....it is because of British involvement. Nothing is claimed that does not have basis in fact. If there was no British involvement, we don't claim that there was. An example would be this page. It is stated that this aircraft is unique in it's conception. It wasn't.. It has been stated that it was designed as an interceptor....it wasn't...it was a development of an existing aircraft. All we ask is credit where due..
An aircraft for which no sound tactical or operational doctrine was ever formulated, the Sea Dart was, to coin a phrase, "cool as hell" in concept*. Naturally, the Sea Dart cannot carry underwing or fuselage stores or tanks. In that wise, it was less potentially useful than the Harrier-a known short range, poor performance, type. *Exactly like the F-104. No tactical doctrine formulated by the USAF envisioned need of a supersonic point defense fighter.
the music is all warped an sad an representative of a time gone by,an power of u.s..might that no longer exists,like some documentary at our collective funeral....
You see, comrade, russian people thinking smth like this, watching USSR documentary films: SU was a geat country and now we lost it,s achievements. About this video: glad to see. Modern Discovery is a silly pup agains old documentary films school.
![Why The US Navy Built A Fighter Jet On Skis | Convair F2Y Sea Dart [Aircraft Overview #72]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DUpUpq9lhqY/mqdefault.jpg)
Wonderful hearing William Conrad narrating on this very rare look at this aircraft!
Matt Dillon ! The Fat Man.
Where are all those beautiful models now? They cant have just thrown them away? To have lived and worked in California in the late forties and fifties must have been wonderful. Beautiful cars, no crowds and everything seemed possible.
I couldn't imagine getting on the 110 at 5 and cruising home doing 65!
you forget that we had air raid sirens every monday at noon, Eisenhower encouraged everyone to build a bomb shelter in case of nuclear attack, Joe McCarthy's witch hunt for communists, Khrushchev pounding the table at the UN screaming "we will bury you" "Happy Days" wasn't that happy.
I helped restore the Dart at Lakeland airport back in the 80's.
I have never seen a Dart but I for one thank you for helping to preserve this rare aircraft.
Thank you Sir!
You and the restoration team did a great job! I have studied that particular aircraft extensively.
homebuiltindoorplane : i saw it and was impressed, thanks for your work on it,
Many years ago, Early 1970's If memory serves, there was one of these at Boeing field in Renton Washington at the southern tip of lake Washington. (the runway actually went down into the lake so a seaplane could taxi in-out of the lake) It, the Sea Dart, was just sitting there out in the open by the lake. crawled all over the thing and up inside where the twin jets would have been. I don't know where it is now and wonder if that's the one that the you helped restore? The time frame would be about right.
my father worked on that project. I remember that model, he in 1965 and gave it to me. He said he designed the one forward ski that replaced the two skis. thanks!
He may have worked with MY father, who was also on that project.
Glad to see this video. The plane was "news" when I was still in grade school and this video offered more information then I was able to acquire to date.
Thanks for another cool video. I loved the views of historic San Diego. Takes me back to when people were more polite and aviation was innovative and creative. All those Convair buildings were later used to build the tomahawk cruise missile and they are now gone; just an airport parking lot.
Nothing like the romantic image of the mid 20th century engineer at work with his clubmasters and skinny black ties. What a time of innovation.
What a shame nothing much ever came of this.
Oh but it did.
Don't forget the slide rule and variable tables!the only computers sat on top of your shoulders!
Skinny black ties? At first glance, I thought that you said "skinny black tires."
The Sea Dart was a relic of a bygone era where almost any idea was tried out even if the operational rationale was somewhat dubious.
Actually the Sea Dart, the Sea Master, and Marlin was a concept called Seaplane Striking Force. Unlike Aircraft Carriers. You could have supply, fighter, and bomber at forward bases, dispersed in harbours, islands, lakes. Unlike an aircraft carrier you would be able to still have flexability in attack. And be easier to defend. There was nothing dubious about the concept. It was limited by 50's technology. The F-35 is probably far more dubious.
Say it brother.
@@Veldtian1 imagine a Seadart trying to take off in 3 foot or greater waves
Had one at Willow Grove PA on display years ago, very Rare !
My Dad Al Sharp was the foreman of the experimental aircraft dept. at Convair in San Diego. He was involved with the actual. Sea Dart, not these models .
He may have worked with my father, Frank, who was an engineer on the project.
It's a shame that the music soundtrack can't be restored or, better yet, eliminated.
Yeah those old movie soundtracks get so hinky they could trigger a hippie into flashback mode. I was watching an pre-WW II French movie on aviation pioneers last night, it's soundtrack was just all over the place, but the sentiment and content was fun.
It’s part of the 50s…60s video experience….lol
Nice livery/paint job too!
Engineering, at its experimental fase! This is aviation history at its best.
Thanks for the video!
thank you!!!!!! magic!!!!
A fairly accepted "Eastern Block" technical periodical (perhaps bi-weekly) in 1957 May(?) had a short report about Convair going further than the Sea dart. Planning a submarine capable version! Outside looks same but a little bigger plane that can dive and hide subsurface!
I heard one of the design changes early in the full scale craft was the widening of the cockpit. The earlier craft were too narrow to accommodate a test pilot with balls big enough.
It sounds like a nice concept
WOW! was that really how video looked when we were kids?
One of the test pilots who flew the Sea Dart said it was one of the most dangerous things hes ever done.
The design was very flawed with the skis, and the eventual breakup of the one prototype that killed one of the test pilots.
Theres a Peninsula Seniors video with him telling his pilot history..worth a watch!
In the late 50’s, the comic strip ”Buz Sawyer”, that featured a Guy who worked as a testpilot and spy, had him fly a similar aircraft. The difference was that it had No skis and was much smaller. Also, it could land on a ”soft deck” on land.
The plane broke up killing Convair test pilot Charles E. Richbourg because he inadvertently exceeded the airframe's limitations.
Man, the music is awesome!
Kinda wish we didn't have computers. Humans were obviously in control. We the humans we the computers!
*were the computers!
This is fascinating and I dare say rare footage of the development of a unique aircraft.
I was just thinking that I would love to have a couple of the old paper sketches and drawings as from my viewpoint these are as beautiful as any artwork hanging in museums.
P.S. There is a punch-card computer shown at 4:57 I wonder how they used it to crunch the flight data calculations and what the output would have looked like? What a great job these guys had.
Yep, and we had to do all that fun analog testing of designs with physical models instead of in computers. It was slower, it was less efficient, but, it had to be more fun.
An impressive aircraft
does anyone know the music in the beginning
Love "Matt Dillon" narrating. What a voice.
Yes! And it's been three years since you made this comment. I'm surprised no one has tried to argue that this isn't James Arness's voice.
William Conrad, who played Matt Dillion in this time frame ON RADIO
would make a nice drone for submarines or smaller navy vessels
So where was the weapons load supposed to go?
A fascinating concept; it's a shame that it went nowhere. One of the surviving Sea Darts is on display outside at the (now closed) Willow Grove NAS, I drive past it every day.
It would seem to be a shame that the aircraft left outside will eventually deteriorate and disappear into history.
abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1435203
They all four have survived and are displayed throughout the country.
Next a jet that can land on water and become a submarine then surface again and take off again.
You would think that a billionaire would want a flying submarine rather than a separate yacht, sub and jet. Imagine the fun times abord a amphibious flying submarine. It could go anywhere and do anything. I wish I could build it, fly it, sail it, drive it and dive it. Fun!
11:04 I wonder why they bothered to cover it up...didnt everyone see the representative 1/10 scale models being tested in San Diego Bay?
pretty neat
I bet corrosion would have been a problem if it was ever developed
Magnificent machine...It could have been Batman's plane...Was that a P-80 Shooting Star flying next to it ?
boards of canada vibes
Is there someone out there who could replace the music and narration. This historic clip doesn't deserve the awful clown music sounds.
It's a F102 on water skis...
Hard to imagine the corrosion issues it would have had.
This thing works! What happened?
Aerial refueling gave the range. Try to conceive of the Sea Dart with a load of bombs. No.
One of the prototypes disintegrated over San Diego Harbor during a demonstration flight for top brass. About the same time the problem of basing supersonic aircraft on carriers was solved. My father caught two photos of the exploding plane with a 4x5 before it hit the water. He was stationed at the Coast Guard bass on Harbor Drive.
A good example of when the world changes, things are overcome..... Few understand this because it requires system thinking. Fewer care to exercise that way. Even fewer are engaged in trying to guide human destiny KNOWING these things. Explains a lot why we are in the hole we are today....
Specifically, missiles became the armament of the sub and planes were outclassed and outdated. All in under 10 years! BE thankful you can see this - music does suck but damn, great information!!!!
MrHansAryan technology marches on,all the mucking about with models can be done in minutes on a computer.
Looks like the Lockheed from the side elevation..
MARSHALL DILLON!
é o novo! do tempo da musica orquestrada.
Was stationed at North Island my last 2 years in the Navy 1996-1998. Was nice there but expensive. Of course this video is before l was born. The Seadart crashed in the San Diego bay killing one of the test pilots
Never to be seen again !
Not true....the three surviving airframes are all on public display. I helped restore the one in San Diego.
Is this Conrad narrating?
Sounds just like him.
“The fat man”
THE MUSIC...... HAHAHAHA....!!!
They did this for no real good reason! I love the try-anything attitude and with unlimited funding they made some real nonsense machines come to life!
So fucturistic the music sounds like synth wave
A time of rapid change in both
technology and world politics..... and nearly unlimited funds for defense.
and a culture of unbridled technical creativity..
Why the US Navy abandoned this program? is it because the USAF will be jelous?
The problem of launching jet aircraft off of carriers had been solved, plus the persistent ski issues really killed the project.
💡
(*Sea Dart is TWO words!)
In the future se Will see submarinos flying ............
Unique....1953. Hardly The British had already flown a jet powered water borne prototype jet fighter in 1947...Saunders Roe P1.
It's easy to slap a jet engine onto a proven platform. I could mount small jets on a 1920 Curtiss float plane and have it fly. It IS unique in that it was built ground-up to be a SUPERSONIC interceptor.
KurtB It's based on the Dart, which was a supersonic interceptor anyway.
It is not unique in the sense of being a water bourne jet fighter.
panda44r Both built as water borne jet fighters......No difference whatsoever.
Also, the SR plane was from scratch, XF2y wasn't....but the biggest point would be that the SR was of a time when Supersonics were unknown.
The fact is a) It isn't unique, b) It wasn't first.
SuperAncientmariner
I've always admired British aerospace advances, but they've apparently "given up" in the last 40 years or so. You are not alone in bemoaning this, and cling to history... Spitfires, Merlin engines, Whittle. And then, anything that comes post WW2 is some sort of "bad copy" or "imitation" of British engineering. Trust me, not everything is based upon UK efforts. I'm glad Boeing didn't rush a 707 to compete with the Comet.
KurtB It's funny you should mention that.
When the investigations into the causes of the Comet failures were announced, both Boeing and Douglas said that if it had not happened to the Comet, it would (not might) have happened to them.
Also, the way that air crash investigations are carried out (including rebuilding wreckage etc) are all down to the way the Comet investigations were carried out.
Regarding anything "post war"......if we make a claim of British involvement.....it is because of British involvement. Nothing is claimed that does not have basis in fact.
If there was no British involvement, we don't claim that there was.
An example would be this page. It is stated that this aircraft is unique in it's conception.
It wasn't..
It has been stated that it was designed as an interceptor....it wasn't...it was a development of an existing aircraft.
All we ask is credit where due..
An aircraft for which no sound tactical or operational doctrine was ever formulated, the Sea Dart was, to coin a phrase, "cool as hell" in concept*. Naturally, the Sea Dart cannot carry underwing or fuselage stores or tanks. In that wise, it was less potentially useful than the Harrier-a known short range, poor performance, type.
*Exactly like the F-104. No tactical doctrine formulated by the USAF envisioned need of a supersonic point defense fighter.
The stupid takes even longer
is it just me or does this plane look like it has stealth features ??
Blended wing makes sense for seaplanes.
the music is all warped an sad an representative of a time gone by,an power of u.s..might that no longer exists,like some documentary at our collective funeral....
Yep I was thinking the same things.
You see, comrade, russian people thinking smth like this, watching USSR documentary films: SU was a geat country and now we lost it,s achievements.
About this video: glad to see. Modern Discovery is a silly pup agains old documentary films school.
Vacuum tubes
Music is crap
It's original, at the time it was perfect.