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Cutting a scarf joint for a carpenters roof
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2020
- How to keep your scarf joint straight and mark the timber prior to cutting the second half of the joint,
The ridge board is over 10m long so we need to form a joint, the scarf joint is perfect for this application, I like to make it on the wall plate as this helps me keep it straight and then I can mark all the rafter positions in situ and save time and effort later
Hi Robin, just made my first ever scarf joints (and I am 74 years old!) following your first video. It's for a six metre long shed I am building during lock down. Many thanks for all your help!
You are so welcome David that has made my day, be sure to send me a picture, all the best Robin
74.😂😂😂😂 Funny!!
Well done mate
@My name, Is Michael Caine Many thanks for your comment Michael. Shed coming along now. Put the roof shingles on this weekend! Regards Dave
Old comment but I'm about to make my first ever scarf joints for a 6 metre shed lol.
Hi Robin Top notch, I have used this joint for years now and it never stops to amaze the clients. I don't like to see some carpenters using a straight splice cut doesn't do the job that this does never use any other way the best, gives me a sense of pride when ever I have done one and still does at my old age.
Great one good on you.
this is my favourite youtube channel by a mile!!
That's kind Ollie cheers mate
That's a proper mug in the background there!!
Wanted to say THANK YOU for your previous scarf joint video. Helped loads and very clear. I did hit a problem when I secured by wedge with a screw. When I hit it too hard and it blew out the wedge and screw in one. I then had a job on trying to get the joint to line up again. It's the kinda problem you only make once, but was grateful that you took the time to teach me a new woodworking tip.
Thanks again.
I have watched this, and the other, video many (!) times and having tried this joint and have to say you make it look like childs play which it certainly is not. Great skill.
Nice one Andrew, thnaks for watching and commenting and its a cliche but practise makes perfect!!
Its a nice joint, but not sure its the most satisfying i've ever had ..........
Another nice video on parts of the trade which with all the house bashing going on its gets lost. When I was taught a scraf joint I was also told to cut the top and bottom shoulders on a 45 degree.
excellent robin lovey scarf joint love all your videos keep up the good work
Thank you! Will do!
Show off absolute quality Robin
Second time I've watched this (SB the first time). Doesn't get old. Nicely done again.
Pure Class Robin.
Just one word Robin... Speechless :-)
That's 5 words too many! 😁
@@sally6457 Robin paid me loads :-))
Wow, I have never seen that done before. I watch a lot of building videos for enjoyment and to learn. All the ones I have watched from the USA just shown end butting to join things.
I Fully understand how difficult it must be to try to work and film at the same time. But i would love to see this roof job filmed. Looks like a nice project. Keep up the great vids. Thanks for sharing
I have footage and will post in the coming days and weeks
@@ukconstruction Nice
Hi Robin, I love watching you as you don't cut corners, I am also 74 like the guy below, but I just like making sawdust. I enjoyed your scarf joint and I thought you might like to see another scarf being cut, It was cut from Purple Heart and it is huge. Look for EP14 Part 2, Rebuilding Tally Ho on UA-cam.
I think you will appreciate the skill and effort involved. Best wishes
Superb Robin, as always.
Gifted man make it look so easy 👌
Great job Rob.
Beautiful joinery top class
Many thanks
Great chanel, great content.
Thanks very much fella 'Tips Hat'
satisfaction at its finest! would have been nice to see the wedges being knocked in but at least we got a picture :)
Hi Robin awesome video dude, never get tired of hand cut roof members. I was given an really old book yesterday, it’s even got that old book smell 😂 the author Charles F. Mitchell Building Construction it explains and shows some amazing details I’ll send a couple of photos, it would be great to catch up soon all the best Tony 👍
I have that book!!! some of the old books are awesome, your videos are great mate looks like you guys are a proper building firm and do stuff perfectly which is rare these days!!!!
once this covid madness eases we will have have a coffee!!
Build avoiding A&E
Hi robin. Another master piece showing of your skills. I am a fellow carpenter who has been out of collage for about 1 year now and I look at how precise you are and I say how on eart am I going to get to that level. I then remind myself I am only 20 and I have my hole life ahead of me. I saw that you have the Hickoki framing nail gun, and I am in the market for a framing nailer. out of all the nails guns you have used which one would you recommend, I am leaning towards the paslode Im 360ci as its paslode and they have been tried and tested for years. Keep the tips and tricks coming.
Many thanks.
Daniel.👍
The ends of your scarf are a bit square, even a slight angle will keep this joint more secure.
They are angled, its just hard to tell on video. If you make the angle too steep it can split the wood
I noticed this too. It's the same in the other video he did on the other channel. Sorry Alex Roge, But I have to agree with Gary... they are square with the long cut. The only thing holding this joint together is friction. Other chippies I know use at least 5-10 degrees of angle from square
Just had a look at his other video and yeah he squares up the ends with a square, so no angle
Great video. Just a comment and a thumbs up to support the channel with YT algorithms.
Thank you Ryan!!
Delicious joint
One question robin
I’m an old user of the hitachi c9u first generation. Still going strong.
How does the hikoki fair on wet timber say autumn and winter roofing being cordless?
I ve used a friends mafell 18v kss60. Lovely machine but just kept stopping each time. Could not handle wet timber.
Quality work as always from you.
I have a few c9u's myself, the oldest I bought as an apprentice in 1996.
If you are knocking out cut roofs day in day out, no other saw can match a c9u.
I'm convinced Hitachi stopped making them because they were too good and never needed replacing.
Try using silicon or PTFE spray on your blade between cuts,
And watch a few tree felling videos, I've found that knowing a bit more about the nature of timber helps to get the best possible cut in the quickest time without damaging your tools.
Lovely job mate
Watched this one and your other one and have a question.
Have you ever gone back to an old build and checked the joint?
My brain says that the wedges dry out more and continue to shrink, causing the joint to loosen, at the joint. Not to mention the timbers drying and shrinking also.
I realise that it is constrained with other types of tie-ins, but I'm looking at the joint itself. Does the wedge and timber dry out enough to be loose?
If loose, is it actually a problem?
Would not construction adhesive be best used in the joint with the wedges to keep it all together and tight?
Hi Robin are you splitting the pencil line or cutting just to the waste side to get it that snug first pop?
In my opinion the cut on a pencil mark is down to the individual, some people leave the line in, some take it out, some split the line,
When working in a team I was taught to ask the person who marked the cut: "keep the line? Take out the line? Or split the line?"
You know you have a good team when a single word is understood by every other person in that team.
That is a great question, sometimes I use a pencil with a thick lead as sawn timber will snap a thin leaded pencil, so my line is about 2mm thick, I like to cut half that line off and I find the joint fits a treat
Learn so much! Thank you 🙏
So how does it work though? Video didn’t finish with showing it being out together in action
Very helpful the scarf joint, as building my own extention.You mentioned a wedge, is this just a wooden cut wedge. Many thanks
Hi robin been a fan of you page and skill builder for awhile now. Bought the 36v hikoki chop saw after seeing your videos. Just a quick question i am thinking of buying the 36v circular saw u are using in the video but i think i will just get body only as i already have some 4/8ah batterys from the chop saw. Does the 4/8ah battery fit the circular saw without obstructing cutting depth as i know the circular saw tends to come with the 2.5/5ah multivolt batterys and they seem to be close enough to the base. Thanks in advance!
Good work robin ! When you retiring ? How much is enough mush ?
Absolutely beautiful
Seems a little overkill to open both members for slip wedges. Although, keeping this element near center is essential. I intend on taking an opportunity to use this joint on my 2x6 ceiling rafter ties to span 22 ft. garage. Can't source any lumber longer than 20ft. It is a 10/12 2×10 rafter hip roof. If I apply this joint to the center of the ceiling rafters to obtain length then lap another 2x6 covering the center 1/3rd of their length, I should have a solid element. Of course with all the appropriate stiffbacks and bracing. What do you think?
Bomb proof Sir, 👍 🔨 🇮🇪
Sothe scarf joint is to make up for not having a long enough board to put up? And the wedges make it strong enough to support the weight?
Awesome 😎
Great job.
Your work is superb Robin. You must be in high demand. Is the scarf joint as strong as a board with no joint?
Are you using a scarf because it will be visible, it’s more standard than I thought, or just because that’s your style? I’ve spent some time in restoration boatbuilding, timber frame, and old house preservation. I’ve done plenty of scarfs and love them for many reasons, but most framers would just butt the joint and add butt blocks on either cheek for the sake of time savings. What’s your justification for spending the time on this in general framing?
Hi Bryan, It is just my standard, it only takes me about 10 mins to make a scarf joint for roof framing so its probably quicker than adding blocks!! I also love my craft and I enjoy going the extra mile for my clients!!!
This is high end one off house building, not house bashing. The price is reflected in the quality of craftsmanship.
I did my first Scarf Joint aftery Your previosu video, but i hit some bumps.
My beam was a lot thicker (14x14 cm) and my saw didn/t have so much reach (and it isn't very precise)
Do You have any sugestions for making Scar Jont on thicker beams?
Love Your work. You are inspiring for me.
Great video, how do you set out the length of the joint? I use 4 times the width of timber for overall length of the joint, (so 4x2 would give an overall joint of 16") this is my own opinion as i wasn't ever taught this joint, I only inferred from seeing scarf joints on older buildings.
I'd love to see if and how you do a dragon tie on a hip corner,
I'm nearly 40 and would gladly give the next 5 years to repeat my apprenticeship a craftsman of your level.
I use 3 times the width I talk about this more on the scarf joint video that I did on Skillbuilder
Out of curiosity, what’s that void for below the wall plate your marking out and cutting on ?
Hiya robin, when using the caberdeck style flooring like in the vid do you nail as well as glue your boards down? I get mixed opinions when working on different sites some chippys say 3 nails per joist some say the glue does the work and nail where it’s needed 🤷♂️
I normally just nail the first row, then glue them all and the odd nail on them
Hi Mike, I did not fit that floor, when I use this system I only fix a couple in the first row to keep it straight and hold it, then I glue it exactly as recommended so 2 lines of glue about 10mm in from the edge of the joists and all joints, the key to this flooring is that the tops of the joists are clean and debris free, hope that helps, oh and its super messy too!!!!!
Hi Robin, love your videos, I watched your skill builder one on cutting a scarf joint. In that video you screwed a wedge into place so the other could be hammered in. Could the fixed wedge be cut in to the Joint to save time or would that cause issues with it being end grain, matching the angles or another issue?
I tried that in my early days and its not bad but it feels easier to be able to knock from both sides and get everything nice and flat, hope that helps Tom
Robin Clevett makes sense, cheers mate
Do you ever do japanese scarf joints ? This european scarf joint is fairly basic in comparison because you do not lock the piece against torsion. Anyway I appreciate your tips !
The rafters will help against torsion i think
I hope you still rate all the hikoki kit? I've just ordered that saw tonight, swapping piece by piece from makita as things break
Hi Ricky, I really rate all the Hikoki products that I have got nothing has broken and the batteries are super strong too, its a great platform mate
Need gates on that scaffold SG4;15
FFS Clevett, you even matched the grain.
Sirus I noticed that too 😂
Well that was luck!!
Does that Hikoki circular saw not come with a riving knife? Or have you removed it to make plunge cuts easier?
Great question, top of the class!! very few of the new generation cordless circular saws has a riving knife, and this Hikoki does not have one, I used to have to remove my knife from my old cordless saw to complete some tasks, hope that helps
@@ukconstruction Yes. Very helpful thanks.
The blades on cordless saws (kerf) are to thin for a riving knife. Too put a thicker blade in the m so a riving knife would wear the batteries quicker and slow the saw down.
Most cordless 6 1/2 inch saws come with blades 1.4-1.6mm thick. Most 190mm cordless saws have 1.5-1.7mm kerf blades.
A corded circ saw coul have 2-2.3mm kirf blzdes to allow for a riving knife.
Hope that helps
How do you find that hikoki saw im nou sure whether to get hikoki or bosch version as have both batteries. Keep up the good work
Hi Martin, I love this Hikoki saw its so nice to use and the fact its cordless has made making my structures even easier, I have not tried the bosch as even before cordless I was always using a Hitachi 9 inch corded saw for years and it was in my opinion the best value circular saw and the nicest to use, indeed Hitachi now hikoki are masters at these types of saw and they go to great lengths to develop with the end user in mind
Cheers robin think i might have to go with the hikoki. Will just have to sneak it in the house so the mrs done see.
Robin, Why do you need to cut out the space for the wedges when the initial joint was so tight?
The wedges make it even tighter and keep it locked together perfectly. All adds to the strength of the joint
Superb.
Got to do a long hip tomorrow, will do a scarf joint I think?
No Milwaukee today Robin?
I had it there for my Rafters!!
Nooice!
When cutting the reliefs for the wedges can you just cut it from 1 edge rather than both?
I did try that but I found that through grain against through grain is smoother than running against end grain hope that makes sense!!
What I meant was after your first cut the scarf was perfect then you cut reliefs to accept the wedges from both parts, could you cut from just 1 side?
Where's your dust mask Robin?
Brian Wood that’s not dust that’s ‘man glitter’
I'd bet anything that you made your partner sign a risk assessment on your wedding night!
You never showed how to finish it. Or is leaving it loose and disconnected, as you have it, finished ?
There where a couple of stills at the end of the video showing the completed job, if not check out the scarf joint video on Skillbuilder that I did
Hey Robin, my son has just turned 11, he has always wanted to be a “builder”, but he has never been sure which route to take. Since finding Skill builder and now your own channel, he is now hooked on you and carpentry. He even tried a tennon and tusk joint over the weekend. His name is Franky, any chance of a hi?
Cheers
Thats awsome, I will try to give him a mention in an up and coming Video, its great when kids find an interest, they can learn so much and even if its not what they end up doing in life it helps in so many ways, all the best
Robin
Robin Clevett He would absolutely love a mention, would make his year. He definitely wants to follow you as a chippy...all the best mate.
Where did you come up with this? Not a traditional ridge joint!?
Hi Ashley, I was taught this in college back in the 80's it is probably the best joint for a ridge as it is strong laterally and is clasped by pairs of rafters too, it's a great simple joint, thanks for your comment
Hi Robin what are the actual size for the scarf joint my teacher was going to show me but covid shut us down last year
The joint length is 3 times the height of the timber being joined so a 195 x 47 would be 585 long, hope that helps mate
@@ukconstruction thanks for the reply i mean what is the angle u join up the marks,is it on a 45°?
Is this joint suitable for a 5 meter hip length at a pitch below 10 degrees or is there an alternative?
No not really, I would buy a timber long enough, most timber merchants stock up to 6m lengths
Wow didn't expect that quick reply. Unfortunately l can't get the materials at that length so l will have to sort something else out. Your videos are truly superb. Thanks.
I'd use it on a hip if I couldn't get timber long enough, I'd probably put a prop under the joint down onto a L.B.W. Consult a structural engineer if you are unsure, 👍 🔨 🇮🇪
Unfortunately l work for someone who doesn't do thing correctly so I've done a scarf joint and strengthened it either side. The boss wasn't willing to buy the correct size timber. Also it's an irregular hip and therefore the jacks aren't supporting it as much as they should. I've warned the boss it will potentially sag but hopefully I've done enough.
@@hudsonsoul1121 If you mechanically fix the joint from the top and bottom with structural screws and put a prop under it down to a L.B.W it should be fine. Is it a tiled roof? You probably need to find a better employer or go out on your own, 👍🔨🇮🇪
Nice job, but I’d like to that open area in the floor covered over before someone accidentally disappears through it...!
And who pays for that? Surely if you can use a power tool you should be able to avoid a small gap in the decking,
Maybe the Gene pool needs a little chlorine now and then?
Hi robin
Japanese joint!
no one ever shows the actual connecting of the joint.
Try my youtube channel I have done it loads
Isn't there a ratio of the width to length of the joint, maybe 12 to 1...
The joint ratio is length of joint equals 3 x the timber width so if your using a 200mm wide board then your overall length of the scarf joint is 600mm
Wait you mean this joint is actually used in real life?!? And not to bring my attention to skill builder? lol!!!
That's a very poor scaffold mate, short inside standards to damage your knees insecure toe boards and no fall protection at the ladder which is breach of The Work at Height Reg's 2005
Shall we let the scaffolder know?
I think showing the layout procedure would have been more informative than the cutting.
Hes done that in a previous video
@@mattryan1986 He cuts it in a previous video also so whats your point. I've seen somebody cut wood before, the layout is the important part.
@@RussellBond13 the point is that he's allready showed the layout in one of his previous videos as I've all ready alluded to
Matt Ryan And my point is he also showed himself cutting it in another video so why show cutting again. If your point is he already did it then why make a video about cutting it, he already did it.
@@RussellBond13 he was just covering something he didn't include in the original video which was the how to ensure it ends up straight so think that was the only reasons hes done this video as a top up to the original
Definitely. You are using a scaffold which does not meet the standards of TG 20. Tom. Retired advanced scaffolding inspector and cisrs instructor. You can be held liable if anyone is hurt or falls off. Regards Tom
Smug git 😂😂