WOW! You guys sure had a lot to say about these uniforms - and the US Army's UCP pattern too! In fact, there was so much interesting information in the comments section that I'm making a follow-up video on this topic! Be sure to subscribe to be notified when it comes out! (Hopefully, in a week or two...)
Fun fact: The old green uniforms are still very respected by Lithuanian military. Sniper guys usually still use it as it is very good for nature environment. Peaces of the green uniform is used to mask P2000 howitzers also.
Honestly i'd disagree If you check any videos of combat footage in Ukraine now - you'll notice they're all wearing bright yellow/blue/red stripes on their helmets and headbands What's the point of camouflage if you're going to do that? I would argue that the biggest contributor to US deaths in the Iraq and Afghani wars was actually friendly fire, and those UCP uniforms probably saved a lot of lives by being easily recognizable vs. the drab khaki the insurgents were usually wearing
HOLY SHIT! I am in this video! 5:11 That right there is footage from the ceremony where the infantry battalion of duke Margiris received its battle flag in the city of Šiauliai. 5:23 is the actual squad that I served with and I recognize most guys in that formation. This hit me right in the nostalgia with the force of a semitruck at full speed. Side note: at the time I served, only the professional soldiers wore the "white" uniforms while conscripts still wore the "green" ones and the common consensus was that the "white" uniforms stood out in the forests far too much and were disliked for it.
One thing I dislike about this uniform is if you wash it incorrectly a few times, it loses coloring and soon starts looking "worn down" even if the material it self is still in pristine condition.
yeah it loses the pattern too, the parts around the knees and other places that commonly get friction are like that, the massive amount of sweat from running around in gear and plate carrier don't help much for keeping the torso area nice looking either. One thing that might be worth looking into in the future is re-conditioning the uniform to regain some of its hydrophobic properties because after maybe half a dozen wash cycles and a few bog runs it basically soaks up water like normal clothing.
When I served in Lithiuanian military we still used the "eglute" (evergreen) older pattern. It brings level of nostalgia. Makes me feel old lol. When I joined US army we already transitioned to OCP but some of the gear issued was still UCP. Such as my IOTV armor vest and some wet weather gear. I looked outdated. I miss the G36 to be honest. Thanks for your service my man.
In 2015-2016 I did mandatory service in Lithiuanian armed forces. in 2019 I moved to USA and in 2021 I joined US army and served in 10th mountain division as light a infantryman. You can join US military with just a green card.
@@michaelschneeberger well... even in Generation Kill, there's a Mexican immigrant and a “law rebel” in the convoy. Pretty sure near anyone can join, presuming your/ them origin country doesn't have a law prohibiting it as a matter of national security.
At 05:59 at the magazine´s index, the picture at the bottton left, shows a US service man testing one of the first Stinger MANPAD back in the late 70´s or early 80´s. You can even see the old and trusty M1 helmet. Funny how they included that picture when they have their own.
I don't think the US spent $5 billion developing that pattern. I find that number referenced everywhere, even the Smithsonian wrote an article about it. But no article I ran across points back to a military source. I suspect that 5 billion dollars includes the production as well as the development. I think your example of small country small problem, big country big problem is very appropriate. The US is going to be everywhere and doing everything, so they tried to over-engineer something that really didn't need to be . Lithuania not so much.
At the same time that UCP camo was being developed, they were also redesigning the cut of the uniform into what is now ACU, so I'd guess that was a significant portion of the cost as well.
Most of soldiers still prefer to use old camo if they could (sadly only reservist get ones, then going to training for 3 weeks), because of a bad new patern light color shade in forest terrain (wich is 35% of our terrain)
I was just about to say exactly the same thing. We called the old uniforms "green" and the new ones "white". While calling the new ones "white" would not be fair normally, in the forest, during the day and at night they stand out a lot more than the old green ones. The same issue is with "white" pattern tents. But we were told the military expects to fight wars in urban environment more than before (due to constant urbanisation, I guess). Another reason is that we want to look more like a NATO military and less like the zombies from moscovia.
@@Laurynas_LTUuniversal camo will never be better than a camo made for a specific scenario/environment, but just because we train mostly in forests, doesn't mean that's the environment we would be fighting in. Forests are just for training. Most of real fights would be in city outskirts or in towns. That's where you would be glad to have this camo and not the dark green one.
The same thing is happening here in austria. We had a ranger greenish~ uniform for decades it worked great, only the cut needed improvement. Now we have a universal camo that doesnt really fit anywhere EVEN THOUGH we have a seperate uniform for desert environment anyway. I wonder what the higher ups where smoking when they approved it. Yours actually looks quite good compared to our's.
I had an opportunity to see Lithuanians wearing that uniform in city, yet I found it not too effective. I dont know if the uniforms were faded or not, but the print had too little contrast in a pattern and from longer dostanie they looked like one colour. I actually enjoyed precious M05 Miško pattern more and found it more effective in green environements.
I joined the US army in January of 1980, we wore what we jokingly called the pickle suit, solid green. We eventually went to camo. I have an apenflage uniform, I really like the color and pattern. ✌️
Once again I learn what's happening in Lithuania from your channel. I've seen few soldiers with unseen uniforms and thought they are foreigners. But they were driving vehicles with LT plates. That explains a lot.
Everyone is switching to a variant of Multicam, even the Russian, which means it’s going to become almost impossible to tell friend from Foe, unless you wear bright blue tape which makes the camo uniform redundant
Apparently the current war in Ukraine has two opposing armies with very similar uniforms, so the Russians are wearing orange stripes on their sleeves to differenciate.
Efficiency is a must when you have limited resources, US can allow itself to spend that kind of money while Lithuania and other Baltic countries cannot
Exactly. Alot of resources and money is a blessing and a curse. When you have alot of options you have the chance to make alot of stupid mistakes. Most countries in comparison, especially small ones, have much more limited options. What many view as "smart" decisions might just have been one of their few actual options.
The only reason UCP got adopted was because people thought it “looked cool and modern”. It was just a gray copy of MARPAT, itself a modification of CADPAT. The crazy thing is that Scorpion, which would later evolve into OCP, was created in these initial trials. We could’ve transitioned from M81 to OCPs, but we had to waste billions on UCP and now Nat Guard units are still occasionally stuck using equipment that doesn’t blend in whatsoever.
From what I've read of its development, the main consideration in the colorway of UCP was how they would look when seen with NVDs. Supposedly, the developers chose the best light, medium, and dark colors as seen under IR light that didn't blend into each other or looked too light or too dark. Apparently they didn't care how it looked or worked under visible light.
@@Riceball01 that is great brainfart, like making a ship be painted in stealth camo that can divert even sound waves be bright green with blue stripes
@@jacaredosvudu1638 Agreed, I don't know why the Army was so hyper focused on a patterns appearance under IR light at the time. While I understand that older patterns, like the old M81 woodland, don't work too well under IR with most of the colors washing out and blending while the black ends up standing out, they probably could have found better colors. They may have washed out and/blended together a bit more than UCP but would have worked far better in visible light.
From what I heard, the child of a senator sitting on the military committee worked for the company that produced UCPs. The design wasn't even selected to be tested, but the senator convinced their fellow committee members to go with it.
Marginimas is action doing pattern or drawing this word i hear being used more by kids Marginti piešini - Coloring sketch or similar to that and i am not sure if we have direct word to print on clothes and for Pattern maybe Raštas would fit more
"Marginimas" basically means painting with multiple colors. Like painting an egg for easter celebration. I haven't heard the word "marginimas" in a military context.
one camo for home defense, adapted for leaf/pinewood/mixed boreal forests/tan steppes like you see in Ukraine. the same but with desert colours (in a smaller quantity for national aid work for smaller countries, i.e not UK, France, USA) one for tropical countries if you're a larger country with a wide military presence. Why would smaller european countries with minimal international presence make their uniforms to kind of fit in afghanistan, rather than just make a desert version in a smaller quantity?
We used to call UCP "rebel grey". Of course, all of us who had to wear it were well aware of the fact that it was chosen because someone knew someone, and that it had beaten OCP because of that. The general who made the call to adopt UCP should have to pay the 5 billion bucks back. I held off wearing it for as long as I possibly could, since I was lent to a Marine Corps unit that let me wear whatever I wanted. I wore civvies or 3 color desert, sterile. Fun fact: When you're wearing sterile uniforms, the amount of E4 mafia shit you can get away with is unbelievable.
The reason why things are super over the top expensive for the US military is because private sector knows that US military can pay A LOT! I watched a documentary about US military, purchases officers where saying that a regular electric cables that cost 20$ to buy would be sold for the army for 400$ just because they can! I bet you that the 800 bill usd defense budget hit that number not because it reflects how good and unique those the equipments are but just because the private sector can and wants!
Yeah I'm sure the US military budget has nothing to do with the US being the first and is still one of the only ones fielding hundreds of 5th gen fighters, multiple aircraft carriers etc. Obviously there is corruption, bloat etc. However to pretend that's the main or only reason is goofy.
Wait! You make is sound as if the $5 Billion was wasted. It was not because the troops wore the UCP for 15 years. Whatever uniform they design worn, that money would have been spent. The 5B included both development and issuing to the troops. What was wasted was the Army's "development" cost for the UCP. - The USMC did a much better job developing their camo for a lot less development money and with much more success. A trip to a Home Depot paints department was involved.
Hi there - didn't know that the $5 billion figure also included issuing to the troops; if that's the case, then it makes a lot more sense. It was my understanding that it was development only.
I did a bit more research later. You are not the only one who made that error. Also, it makes the story sound better. The error has to do with how they word the program's explanations. Otherwise, the article is correct in that they spent many many millions of dollars, don't know the exact amount, on development of the uniform itself and the camouflage UCP pattern. The marines still have 2 uniforms, but they literally sent some top Sergeants to a Home Depot's paint department to come up with their camouflage colors and in all spent 100 times less coming up with their uniform and camouflage patterns. @@LithuaniaExplained
@@edl653 thanks for looking into it! And thanks for being understanding about how I could have made that mistake; You're so right - it's the more eyecatching headline to say $5 billion despite being very misleading. I found a GAO publication that said it cost $3.2 million for development. Nowhere near $5 billion :D I'll be making a follow-up video on all of this since so many people find the topic interesting.
from what I got from a U.S. army blog that posted an article on that it was a big miscommunication error between the what and why. Essentially, because a group of marine snipers was consulted on a good camo pattern in Virgina, their training ground they turned out on a camo pattern MARPAT that was good for woods and jungles. In the early 2000s when the U.S. army was deployed to Iraq a U.S. general who saw the camo realized that it was not fitted for the desert terrain and told army procurement to change it to something fitting. So in army procurement fashion, instead of reusing the desert uniforms from the Persian Gulf War decided they wanted a whole new line of camo specifically for deserts. $5bil later just about everyone in the U.S. army deployed in Iraq and then Afghanistan finally phased out of unfitting camos like MARPAT and UCP into DCU, OCP, and better forms of camo.
From what I've gathered, that $5 billion covers the development of the new camo, the development of the new uniform cut, AND the production of all of the now obsolete uniforms and matching gear. UCP's biggest downfall, IMHO, is that the developers were concentrating too much on IR/NVG visibility and not enough on the visible spectrum.
They should focus on forest woodland and urban instead of desert, because how many times do they even fought in one that makes it so important for them to include
5 billions spent on manufacturing new gear (pouches, backpacks, boots) but not the pattern development I belive. Is this new pattern on the actual footage? It stand out through out your video in almost every environment... Maybe those uniforms are worn and faded but it doesn't look like it offers a macro pattern at all... soldiers looks like lightly coloured blobs instead of blending on the surroundings... Micro pattern is hard to guess either...
knowing that incase of an open conflict, with something like Russia the open field battles for Lithuanian military would be imposible to sustain, and they would be forced into a guerilla war which the dark forest uniforms are better suited for, as most of the fighting would be in foresty areas esmecialy around the border with Belerus and Poland where there is a lot of pine forests.
The Lithuanian camo looks too bright though, should have follow the Latvian example where they went from "universal" approach (LATPAT) to a more woodland dominant camo (the new WOODLATPAT with its unique triangular pattern) .. but at least it doesn't cost too much.
I mean, weird to try and say this is an accomplishment over the US Military, when the entirety of the Lithuanian makes up roughly two US Army divisions alone. Of course it costs us more to field new equipment, regardless, I respect the Lithuanian army, and they're quite professional but surely you have to realize the 'scale', you're comparing an army that is roughly 1% the size of the United States army alone, not including the other branches.
And also as a forenote, yes our nation is wasteful, I'll admit that but we also provide a large portion of ammunition, equipment and arms to many of our allies, I'm sure that Lithuania has taken some of that aid. I'm certainly not upset, but do find it trivial and rather silly that somebody would even make a video trying to compare a smaller nations power against that of a nation who spans an entire continent, not including the hundreds of foreign affair outposts, military bases, and territories across the globe. Remember who assists your nation to prosper, in some form, or fashion it is almost certainly the United States.
@loneranger1247 it does sound like you’re upset though… It’s not ‘all or nothing.’ It’s possible to have gratitude and respect for the work of US forces while at the same time also acknowledging that defense contractors have had a history of overcharging the government and taxpayers. It was my understanding that the $5 billion was for development of the pattern only- which is not necessarily a scale thing. And to pay so much for something that was was not properly tested and proven to be ineffective was the worst part. The GAO reported that it only cost the Marine Corps $319,000 to develop its combat utility uniform...
My problem with universal uniforms is they usualy try to do too many things at the same time and because of that they fail at most of them. I'm gald to see a case it actually worked out.
To me, this parttern looks like a cross between flektarn and Austrailia's old camo pattern. But good on Lithuania for developing their own pattern and not simply adopting some form of Multicam like just about every other Western military has. And regarding UCP, it did work. But only on floral couches and gravel pits.
Its hardly comparable. Obviously a uniform what requires r and d is going to cost more than just buying a camo pattrn and uniform thats already had r and d done by some one else their not comparable
The US military industrial complex suffers from several factors that make it far less efficient and expensive. First the an ingrained bureaucracy that all government bodies including the military have to jump hoops through to satisfy legal and contractual obligations. There's many layers and hands that need to be greased along the way shedding money left and right to do so. Another factor is the need to spend the whole budget and request more every year, there is no benefit to spending less, as that could cause a lowering of the budget next year. A third factor is that governments and their institutions that are funded by taxes do not spend their own money. The attitudes towards budgeting differs greatly depending on the relationship of the money to the spender and the purpose of the spending. For e.g. People are most conservative about spending their own money for themselves. They are the less concerned about spending someone else's money on themselves. More concerned spending their own money on others, and least concerned about spending other people's money on others. These institutions almost always have the latter relationship with its budget and therefore have the least concern about the cost, the quality and to whom the spending benefits as its neither their money nor for their direct benefit. Lithuania doesn't have this much baggage inside its institutions (yet) and so is able to produce a new uniform on such a tiny budget. At least that's my guess in the discrepancies aside from the fact that these budgets might not be accounting the same bills (research alone vs R&D and production costs).
Red plastic blanks. A lot of european armies use them. By contrast i think the US military uses brass blanks. In norway we call the red plastic blanks "rødfis" which means red fart😆
the new camo isnt better at all. Nobody really liked it, unless going on a deployment. It is too bright and the pattern and colors wash out really quickly.
super cool video, can u please do another one? Estonia has nice camo, and i took part of devopling it. its very similar to canadian one but is more effective. :P
This channel, as you can tell by the name, is focused on Lithuania. So unfortunately your request doesn’t really fit- even though it would be interesting to explore.
HA! I only knew about how ineffective out camo was when I watched the HOI video a while back -- aaaaannnnnddddd, you referenced that video, lol, but it is interesting how much of a failure our pattern is
Everybody knows that the American defense budget is way over-blown, but given the US armed forces' personnel is almost as large as the entire Lithuanian population, the comparison in the thumbnail is a little unfair.
The comparisons people often try to make just are often goofy or out of context. People trying to quote the price of an F35 is the perfect example. Alot of quotes for contracts include parts, maintenence, future upgrades etc. but people quote it like it's only thr price of building the planes themselves.
you need to work with your audio, try to maintain one position of microphone when you are talking at first. if you want help wih audio, i can help you for free
KASP got new uniforms in 2020. When you go out for training in forests you can see that grey pilliar walking from faaaar away. Worst decision ever. You had to crawl throu mud for them to actually work. 🤣
UCP would have been perfect camo, assuming all combat took place in the southeast portion of Oregon between Bend and Burns going west to east, and Paulina and Valley Falls north to south.
I hadn't heard of it, but despie it not looking bad I'm skeptical of all-terrain or multi-terrain patterns. Not that I don't see the use for them in environments like Afghanistan where you had arid and wooded areas close by, side-by-side, where troops were constantly moving between the two. But any universal pattern will always be inferior to a dedicated one.
it's funny that the USA never accepts developments from other countries...even little Canada..the newer Canadian pattern and material even work well against IR illumination. there's a small company in Canada who specialize in camp, and have a very cool "urban" pattern that has sharper lines, and gradient colors. to better represent urban shapes and shadows..,
Anything that cost this much money for the US military is rarely about real effectiveness. It's about funneling $$$ into the military-industrial complex. I was in the US Army when it switched from OD green fatigues to BDUs (which soldiers actually preferred). I attended a briefing about the development of BDUs and not surprisingly, everything learned in the process was ignored with UCP.
WOW! You guys sure had a lot to say about these uniforms - and the US Army's UCP pattern too! In fact, there was so much interesting information in the comments section that I'm making a follow-up video on this topic! Be sure to subscribe to be notified when it comes out! (Hopefully, in a week or two...)
you failed to pronounce marginimas
Fun fact: The old green uniforms are still very respected by Lithuanian military. Sniper guys usually still use it as it is very good for nature environment. Peaces of the green uniform is used to mask P2000 howitzers also.
... pieces* of the uniform (peace ≠ war)
UCP was a 5billion joke, we called it Lunar camo.
Honestly i'd disagree
If you check any videos of combat footage in Ukraine now - you'll notice they're all wearing bright yellow/blue/red stripes on their helmets and headbands
What's the point of camouflage if you're going to do that? I would argue that the biggest contributor to US deaths in the Iraq and Afghani wars was actually friendly fire, and those UCP uniforms probably saved a lot of lives by being easily recognizable vs. the drab khaki the insurgents were usually wearing
I ETS'd out the exact day these were mandatory. I was the only cat with BDUs on in formation.
Lunar Camo…. Hmm, give em to space force!
I called it rock pile camo!
wasnt ucp even supposed to be in concidiration
HOLY SHIT! I am in this video! 5:11 That right there is footage from the ceremony where the infantry battalion of duke Margiris received its battle flag in the city of Šiauliai. 5:23 is the actual squad that I served with and I recognize most guys in that formation. This hit me right in the nostalgia with the force of a semitruck at full speed.
Side note: at the time I served, only the professional soldiers wore the "white" uniforms while conscripts still wore the "green" ones and the common consensus was that the "white" uniforms stood out in the forests far too much and were disliked for it.
Dėkoju už jūsų tarnyba 🫡
Sure, the whole Lithuanian army is like 5 guys. Of course, it's easy to appear in some random footage.
@@nikonru2000 ~100K and wtf is your problem ?
@@nikonru2000said salty American who paint taxes for 5 billion camouflage
@@amboyman NAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MY GUY THATS TOO FAR (agree tho)
Respect from Liberty Ukraine!!!
Вітання та Повага Вам,Шановні Литовські Друзі!!
One thing I dislike about this uniform is if you wash it incorrectly a few times, it loses coloring and soon starts looking "worn down" even if the material it self is still in pristine condition.
yeah it loses the pattern too, the parts around the knees and other places that commonly get friction are like that, the massive amount of sweat from running around in gear and plate carrier don't help much for keeping the torso area nice looking either. One thing that might be worth looking into in the future is re-conditioning the uniform to regain some of its hydrophobic properties because after maybe half a dozen wash cycles and a few bog runs it basically soaks up water like normal clothing.
"raštas" - pattern of the fabric (can also mean writing, text). ☺️
When I served in Lithiuanian military we still used the "eglute" (evergreen) older pattern. It brings level of nostalgia. Makes me feel old lol. When I joined US army we already transitioned to OCP but some of the gear issued was still UCP. Such as my IOTV armor vest and some wet weather gear. I looked outdated. I miss the G36 to be honest. Thanks for your service my man.
Maybe I misunderstood but, you served in both? How is that possible?
In 2015-2016 I did mandatory service in Lithiuanian armed forces. in 2019 I moved to USA and in 2021 I joined US army and served in 10th mountain division as light a infantryman. You can join US military with just a green card.
@@michaelschneeberger well... even in Generation Kill, there's a Mexican immigrant and a “law rebel” in the convoy. Pretty sure near anyone can join, presuming your/ them origin country doesn't have a law prohibiting it as a matter of national security.
@@PrograError Joining the US military is also seen as a quicker pathway to US citizenship.
When it came out I hated it and wanted the old one back, but it grew on me and now I like it
It's always nice to hear your personal thoughts based on your experience in Canadian military 👍
Cam patterns are interesting. So is how different countries approach and solve problems. Interesting as ever!
On the dark green uniforms there was definitelly double cross. Hint - it was bicolor.
Cool to know you served in the military. Definitely have more respect for you.
At 05:59 at the magazine´s index, the picture at the bottton left, shows a US service man testing one of the first Stinger MANPAD back in the late 70´s or early 80´s. You can even see the old and trusty M1 helmet. Funny how they included that picture when they have their own.
Well... It's a nice picture!
could be an illustrative picture about an article or something
I don't think the US spent $5 billion developing that pattern. I find that number referenced everywhere, even the Smithsonian wrote an article about it. But no article I ran across points back to a military source. I suspect that 5 billion dollars includes the production as well as the development. I think your example of small country small problem, big country big problem is very appropriate. The US is going to be everywhere and doing everything, so they tried to over-engineer something that really didn't need to be . Lithuania not so much.
At the same time that UCP camo was being developed, they were also redesigning the cut of the uniform into what is now ACU, so I'd guess that was a significant portion of the cost as well.
Cool uniforms! Marginimas refers to Easter egg painting as well. Can we call a person in Camo margutis? Easter is coming!😁
If the said person is small in size, margutis would be an adjective. 😁
@@Moliugas89True 😄
@@Moliugas89 or if your senior sergeant is feeling like ripping your ass for being a zaliotas 😄
Most of soldiers still prefer to use old camo if they could (sadly only reservist get ones, then going to training for 3 weeks), because of a bad new patern light color shade in forest terrain (wich is 35% of our terrain)
I was just about to say exactly the same thing. We called the old uniforms "green" and the new ones "white". While calling the new ones "white" would not be fair normally, in the forest, during the day and at night they stand out a lot more than the old green ones. The same issue is with "white" pattern tents. But we were told the military expects to fight wars in urban environment more than before (due to constant urbanisation, I guess). Another reason is that we want to look more like a NATO military and less like the zombies from moscovia.
@@Laurynas_LTUuniversal camo will never be better than a camo made for a specific scenario/environment, but just because we train mostly in forests, doesn't mean that's the environment we would be fighting in. Forests are just for training. Most of real fights would be in city outskirts or in towns. That's where you would be glad to have this camo and not the dark green one.
The same thing is happening here in austria. We had a ranger greenish~ uniform for decades it worked great, only the cut needed improvement. Now we have a universal camo that doesnt really fit anywhere EVEN THOUGH we have a seperate uniform for desert environment anyway. I wonder what the higher ups where smoking when they approved it. Yours actually looks quite good compared to our's.
I had an opportunity to see Lithuanians wearing that uniform in city, yet I found it not too effective. I dont know if the uniforms were faded or not, but the print had too little contrast in a pattern and from longer dostanie they looked like one colour. I actually enjoyed precious M05 Miško pattern more and found it more effective in green environements.
I joined the US army in January of 1980, we wore what we jokingly called the pickle suit, solid green. We eventually went to camo. I have an apenflage uniform, I really like the color and pattern. ✌️
Once again I learn what's happening in Lithuania from your channel. I've seen few soldiers with unseen uniforms and thought they are foreigners. But they were driving vehicles with LT plates. That explains a lot.
Everyone is switching to a variant of Multicam, even the Russian, which means it’s going to become almost impossible to tell friend from Foe, unless you wear bright blue tape which makes the camo uniform redundant
hadn't really thought of this before, friendly fire truly is something that's less talked about when it comes to war coverage
Apparently the current war in Ukraine has two opposing armies with very similar uniforms, so the Russians are wearing orange stripes on their sleeves to differenciate.
Efficiency is a must when you have limited resources, US can allow itself to spend that kind of money while Lithuania and other Baltic countries cannot
Exactly. Alot of resources and money is a blessing and a curse. When you have alot of options you have the chance to make alot of stupid mistakes. Most countries in comparison, especially small ones, have much more limited options. What many view as "smart" decisions might just have been one of their few actual options.
The only reason UCP got adopted was because people thought it “looked cool and modern”. It was just a gray copy of MARPAT, itself a modification of CADPAT. The crazy thing is that Scorpion, which would later evolve into OCP, was created in these initial trials. We could’ve transitioned from M81 to OCPs, but we had to waste billions on UCP and now Nat Guard units are still occasionally stuck using equipment that doesn’t blend in whatsoever.
From what I've read of its development, the main consideration in the colorway of UCP was how they would look when seen with NVDs. Supposedly, the developers chose the best light, medium, and dark colors as seen under IR light that didn't blend into each other or looked too light or too dark. Apparently they didn't care how it looked or worked under visible light.
@@Riceball01 that is great brainfart, like making a ship be painted in stealth camo that can divert even sound waves be bright green with blue stripes
@@jacaredosvudu1638 Agreed, I don't know why the Army was so hyper focused on a patterns appearance under IR light at the time. While I understand that older patterns, like the old M81 woodland, don't work too well under IR with most of the colors washing out and blending while the black ends up standing out, they probably could have found better colors. They may have washed out and/blended together a bit more than UCP but would have worked far better in visible light.
From what I heard, the child of a senator sitting on the military committee worked for the company that produced UCPs. The design wasn't even selected to be tested, but the senator convinced their fellow committee members to go with it.
Šiaip geras kamufliažas, išskyrus žiemą. Kaip mano vokiečių aviganis rudai juodas, kai atsigula nematyti :D
Marginimas is action doing pattern or drawing this word i hear being used more by kids Marginti piešini - Coloring sketch or similar to that and
i am not sure if we have direct word to print on clothes and for Pattern maybe Raštas would fit more
I would translate "uniform pattern" as "uniformos raštas" as well.
Tau trūksta žinių - eik mokytis, o ne komentarus rašyk. Marginimas could be a verb, but if it is a noun then it means pattern.
Marginimas stands more closer to something thats being painted with multiple colors, like an Easter egg ^^
"Marginimas" basically means painting with multiple colors. Like painting an egg for easter celebration. I haven't heard the word "marginimas" in a military context.
Keep it up Brother ❤
The only place the UCP worked was coyote hunting in an area that had a good amount of sage brush.
I like good old M05 Miško personally
5:47 That's Latvian soldier in Latvian M16 Multi-LatPat Camouflage
maybe 3 grand isnt enough to actually test something...
one camo for home defense, adapted for leaf/pinewood/mixed boreal forests/tan steppes like you see in Ukraine.
the same but with desert colours
(in a smaller quantity for national aid work for smaller countries, i.e not UK, France, USA)
one for tropical countries if you're a larger country with a wide military presence.
Why would smaller european countries with minimal international presence make their uniforms to kind of fit in afghanistan, rather than just make a desert version in a smaller quantity?
Since there is no picture of Zydrunas Savickas in the new uniform I still consider the old one superior!
One size fits all, translates into one size fits nobody. It's the same thing with universal camouflage. Doesn't blend in well in any environment.
There is a very good reason why Us marines wear woodland and desert patterns .... cuz it works !! xD
Lithuania Rifleman Union seems to prefer woodland camo and I am not aware about plans to switch to universal one. I guess preferences are elsewhere.
We used to call UCP "rebel grey". Of course, all of us who had to wear it were well aware of the fact that it was chosen because someone knew someone, and that it had beaten OCP because of that. The general who made the call to adopt UCP should have to pay the 5 billion bucks back. I held off wearing it for as long as I possibly could, since I was lent to a Marine Corps unit that let me wear whatever I wanted. I wore civvies or 3 color desert, sterile.
Fun fact: When you're wearing sterile uniforms, the amount of E4 mafia shit you can get away with is unbelievable.
I miss the "Eglutė" (the green uniform. It surely did make Lithuanian units unique in joint exercises ahaha)
The reason why things are super over the top expensive for the US military is because private sector knows that US military can pay A LOT! I watched a documentary about US military, purchases officers where saying that a regular electric cables that cost 20$ to buy would be sold for the army for 400$ just because they can! I bet you that the 800 bill usd defense budget hit that number not because it reflects how good and unique those the equipments are but just because the private sector can and wants!
Yeah I'm sure the US military budget has nothing to do with the US being the first and is still one of the only ones fielding hundreds of 5th gen fighters, multiple aircraft carriers etc. Obviously there is corruption, bloat etc. However to pretend that's the main or only reason is goofy.
Wait! You make is sound as if the $5 Billion was wasted. It was not because the troops wore the UCP for 15 years. Whatever uniform they design worn, that money would have been spent. The 5B included both development and issuing to the troops. What was wasted was the Army's "development" cost for the UCP. - The USMC did a much better job developing their camo for a lot less development money and with much more success. A trip to a Home Depot paints department was involved.
Hi there - didn't know that the $5 billion figure also included issuing to the troops; if that's the case, then it makes a lot more sense. It was my understanding that it was development only.
I did a bit more research later. You are not the only one who made that error. Also, it makes the story sound better. The error has to do with how they word the program's explanations. Otherwise, the article is correct in that they spent many many millions of dollars, don't know the exact amount, on development of the uniform itself and the camouflage UCP pattern. The marines still have 2 uniforms, but they literally sent some top Sergeants to a Home Depot's paint department to come up with their camouflage colors and in all spent 100 times less coming up with their uniform and camouflage patterns. @@LithuaniaExplained
@@edl653 thanks for looking into it! And thanks for being understanding about how I could have made that mistake; You're so right - it's the more eyecatching headline to say $5 billion despite being very misleading.
I found a GAO publication that said it cost $3.2 million for development. Nowhere near $5 billion :D
I'll be making a follow-up video on all of this since so many people find the topic interesting.
Larger population, and larger military and land mass = mo money
marginimas normally means drawing some pattern in different colours so yeah
wait what? How the fuck in the world making this pattern or any pattern in general can cost 5b
from what I got from a U.S. army blog that posted an article on that it was a big miscommunication error between the what and why. Essentially, because a group of marine snipers was consulted on a good camo pattern in Virgina, their training ground they turned out on a camo pattern MARPAT that was good for woods and jungles. In the early 2000s when the U.S. army was deployed to Iraq a U.S. general who saw the camo realized that it was not fitted for the desert terrain and told army procurement to change it to something fitting. So in army procurement fashion, instead of reusing the desert uniforms from the Persian Gulf War decided they wanted a whole new line of camo specifically for deserts. $5bil later just about everyone in the U.S. army deployed in Iraq and then Afghanistan finally phased out of unfitting camos like MARPAT and UCP into DCU, OCP, and better forms of camo.
From what I've gathered, that $5 billion covers the development of the new camo, the development of the new uniform cut, AND the production of all of the now obsolete uniforms and matching gear. UCP's biggest downfall, IMHO, is that the developers were concentrating too much on IR/NVG visibility and not enough on the visible spectrum.
Best one was the 40 to 45 version...Still available on special memorial days..
Now I have two favourites. ESTDCU and Lithuanian UCP
They should focus on forest woodland and urban instead of desert, because how many times do they even fought in one that makes it so important for them to include
5 billions spent on manufacturing new gear (pouches, backpacks, boots) but not the pattern development I belive.
Is this new pattern on the actual footage? It stand out through out your video in almost every environment... Maybe those uniforms are worn and faded but it doesn't look like it offers a macro pattern at all... soldiers looks like lightly coloured blobs instead of blending on the surroundings... Micro pattern is hard to guess either...
There will be an update video coming out today - addressing some of your comments! :D
marginimas also fits means painting of eggs durring easter, nice fit for a word.
Well checked over my uniform, and I dont see any symbolics hidden in the pattern. Maybe im just blind. Who knows.
knowing that incase of an open conflict, with something like Russia the open field battles for Lithuanian military would be imposible to sustain, and they would be forced into a guerilla war which the dark forest uniforms are better suited for, as most of the fighting would be in foresty areas esmecialy around the border with Belerus and Poland where there is a lot of pine forests.
yea we call the new uniform balta misraine uniform :D
The Lithuanian camo looks too bright though, should have follow the Latvian example where they went from "universal" approach (LATPAT) to a more woodland dominant camo (the new WOODLATPAT with its unique triangular pattern) .. but at least it doesn't cost too much.
I tried to buy some camouflage trousers but couldn’t find any 😬
Good video bro, good information keep up dude ❤
I mean, weird to try and say this is an accomplishment over the US Military, when the entirety of the Lithuanian makes up roughly two US Army divisions alone. Of course it costs us more to field new equipment, regardless, I respect the Lithuanian army, and they're quite professional but surely you have to realize the 'scale', you're comparing an army that is roughly 1% the size of the United States army alone, not including the other branches.
And also as a forenote, yes our nation is wasteful, I'll admit that but we also provide a large portion of ammunition, equipment and arms to many of our allies, I'm sure that Lithuania has taken some of that aid. I'm certainly not upset, but do find it trivial and rather silly that somebody would even make a video trying to compare a smaller nations power against that of a nation who spans an entire continent, not including the hundreds of foreign affair outposts, military bases, and territories across the globe. Remember who assists your nation to prosper, in some form, or fashion it is almost certainly the United States.
@loneranger1247 it does sound like you’re upset though…
It’s not ‘all or nothing.’ It’s possible to have gratitude and respect for the work of US forces while at the same time also acknowledging that defense contractors have had a history of overcharging the government and taxpayers.
It was my understanding that the $5 billion was for development of the pattern only- which is not necessarily a scale thing. And to pay so much for something that was was not properly tested and proven to be ineffective was the worst part.
The GAO reported that it only cost the Marine Corps $319,000 to develop its combat utility uniform...
My problem with universal uniforms is they usualy try to do too many things at the same time and because of that they fail at most of them. I'm gald to see a case it actually worked out.
I'd love to know why Au wanted to phase out their Auscam pattern ?
To me, this parttern looks like a cross between flektarn and Austrailia's old camo pattern. But good on Lithuania for developing their own pattern and not simply adopting some form of Multicam like just about every other Western military has.
And regarding UCP, it did work. But only on floral couches and gravel pits.
And the sagebrush flats of the Great Basin.
Its hardly comparable. Obviously a uniform what requires r and d is going to cost more than just buying a camo pattrn and uniform thats already had r and d done by some one else their not comparable
imo ucp is good during night time operations where enemies are using old gen night vision like russia and china
Awesome video!😊👍💪
Better to have specific use design in any thing
The US military industrial complex suffers from several factors that make it far less efficient and expensive.
First the an ingrained bureaucracy that all government bodies including the military have to jump hoops through to satisfy legal and contractual obligations. There's many layers and hands that need to be greased along the way shedding money left and right to do so.
Another factor is the need to spend the whole budget and request more every year, there is no benefit to spending less, as that could cause a lowering of the budget next year.
A third factor is that governments and their institutions that are funded by taxes do not spend their own money. The attitudes towards budgeting differs greatly depending on the relationship of the money to the spender and the purpose of the spending.
For e.g. People are most conservative about spending their own money for themselves. They are the less concerned about spending someone else's money on themselves. More concerned spending their own money on others, and least concerned about spending other people's money on others.
These institutions almost always have the latter relationship with its budget and therefore have the least concern about the cost, the quality and to whom the spending benefits as its neither their money nor for their direct benefit.
Lithuania doesn't have this much baggage inside its institutions (yet) and so is able to produce a new uniform on such a tiny budget. At least that's my guess in the discrepancies aside from the fact that these budgets might not be accounting the same bills (research alone vs R&D and production costs).
quite literally UCP-D, why didn't the Army just use it
I really dont like new lithuanian camo... those green was way prettier... i loved green color...
5:45 Was that a m240 firing shotgun shells ???
Red plastic blanks. A lot of european armies use them. By contrast i think the US military uses brass blanks. In norway we call the red plastic blanks "rødfis" which means red fart😆
Good job at explaining Lithuania lol. As a Lithuanian, I approve
why does everyone hate ucp so much. Tbh ucp is good only for ng since they are in urban areas
Looks like german multitarn used by the special forces...
As long as it somewhat connected to Lithuania, it is interesting for me
❤ Dėkui
I will save any army that wants endless bucks by giving them the famous 'duck hunter' pattern free forever.
The UK version of a single pattern seems to have worked well enough. But there are wider questions about how long it lasts.
Great video mans
If ucp was slightly green or tan it would be much more effective
the new camo isnt better at all. Nobody really liked it, unless going on a deployment. It is too bright and the pattern and colors wash out really quickly.
super cool video, can u please do another one? Estonia has nice camo, and i took part of devopling it. its very similar to canadian one but is more effective. :P
This channel, as you can tell by the name, is focused on Lithuania. So unfortunately your request doesn’t really fit- even though it would be interesting to explore.
Things I never learned while I was in.
ngl it looks like blurry Ukrainian MM14 with some note of MultiCam
HA! I only knew about how ineffective out camo was when I watched the HOI video a while back -- aaaaannnnnddddd, you referenced that video, lol, but it is interesting how much of a failure our pattern is
Everybody knows that the American defense budget is way over-blown, but given the US armed forces' personnel is almost as large as the entire Lithuanian population, the comparison in the thumbnail is a little unfair.
The comparisons people often try to make just are often goofy or out of context. People trying to quote the price of an F35 is the perfect example. Alot of quotes for contracts include parts, maintenence, future upgrades etc. but people quote it like it's only thr price of building the planes themselves.
France tried too with the New BME pattern, not convinced.
Lithuania doesnt have army only millitary
you need to work with your audio, try to maintain one position of microphone when you are talking at first. if you want help wih audio, i can help you for free
KASP got new uniforms in 2020. When you go out for training in forests you can see that grey pilliar walking from faaaar away. Worst decision ever. You had to crawl throu mud for them to actually work. 🤣
UCP would have been perfect camo, assuming all combat took place in the southeast portion of Oregon between Bend and Burns going west to east, and Paulina and Valley Falls north to south.
It's basically Parkinson's Law, but for money instead of time.
Lithuanian “marga višta”, “margutė”, English “speckled hen” 😄
There is nothing new under the sun. With military contracts, it’s called “milking it”.
I hadn't heard of it, but despie it not looking bad I'm skeptical of all-terrain or multi-terrain patterns. Not that I don't see the use for them in environments like Afghanistan where you had arid and wooded areas close by, side-by-side, where troops were constantly moving between the two. But any universal pattern will always be inferior to a dedicated one.
Naah, multicam in our forests is ineffective af, talkin from experience...
"Marginimas" is the perfect word to explain patern.
Thanks, but I'll keep my old U.S. Navy blue dungarees. ( LOL )
I hate universal camos so much they are awful.
Lithuania 👍👍👍
America "wastes" money, but there is something called inventors tax. You spend way more effort and money figuring something out for the first time.
Right, R&D is usually one of the largest expenses.
who gives a shit about uniforms anyway usa is still WAY powerful than lithuania
it's funny that the USA never accepts developments from other countries...even little Canada..the newer Canadian pattern and material even work well against IR illumination. there's a small company in Canada who specialize in camp, and have a very cool "urban" pattern that has sharper lines, and gradient colors. to better represent urban shapes and shadows..,
"Never" really? What the country of origin of US machine guns? How about the Carl-G?
As you said at the beginning, it's not very interesting 🤨
Anything that cost this much money for the US military is rarely about real effectiveness. It's about funneling $$$ into the military-industrial complex. I was in the US Army when it switched from OD green fatigues to BDUs (which soldiers actually preferred). I attended a briefing about the development of BDUs and not surprisingly, everything learned in the process was ignored with UCP.