I had been taking go transit for years before I had my knee injury in 2020. Now it makes boarding the GO train a bit awkward because I can walk fine but steps are a struggle. So people see what looks like a perfectly healthy young person using the handicap car when in reality I just need that ramp to get on. If I'm not on that car then I struggled to get on and off.
The accessible coach is available for everyone, regardless of any disability. I don't think you need to worry about what others think. Hopefully in the future every coach will be an accessible coach and it will become a non-issue.
Great video! Glad to hear they made decisions to implement level boarding everwhere in the future :) It's so frustrating to see new trains that don't have level boarding. I can understand not retrofitting old trains that are planned to go out of service in a few years, but buying new trains with stairs? Really? I'm guessing that some of the people making decisions never actully ride trains themselves. (Had to haul a heavy suitcase in and out a train yesterday and still annoyed lol)
GO was originally planning to already start converting trains years ago (note the last line in the document at 1:29) but they later decided to delay the conversions until after 2022 when the "OnCorr" contract is awarded, which includes massive infrastructure changes such as level boarding, electrification, new signalling, and railway widening, as well as purchasing trains and operating the system. As of this month, the preferred bidder for the OnCorr contract is a "ONxpress", a consortium including Bombardier/Alstom and Deutsche Bahn. Personally I think they still should have started retrofitting trains in advance of the contract, because there's not much chance that ONxpress will decide on a different floor height than the 610mm standard that GO has already been protecting for for years.
I feel like the plan is to wait for the new rolling stock, which will probably come equipped with gap fillers at around 600mm height, maybe slightly lower even. Switzerland has had gap fillers on most trains for about 30 years now, and it allows for passenger stations in tight curves and freight trains passing through, as it brings the platform away from the tracks, while leaving no gap
The plan for GO Expansion does not involve buying much new rolling stock. They are planning to buy new electric locomotives and use them with the existing coaches.
I always find low or ground level platforms really strange. Just about every station in Australia has level boarding. Although there is still the problem of the gap and at some stations you still have step up into the carriage.
It originates with freight railways. They didn't want anything sticking up above the ground restricting the size of their trains. Until about a decade ago, most of the rails used by GO trains were owned by freight railways.
So all GO trains stop at the same location on the platform, regardless of length? In Sydney Australia, our shorter trains stop closer to the centre of the platform, and there are different markings on the platform indicating where they stop.
Correct. The locomotive always stops in the same position, and the accessible coach is always the 5th back from the locomotive, regardless of whether there are 6, 8, 10, or 12 coaches in total. I think this operation is probably for simplicity, so that they always add/remove coaches from the same side and always stop at the same position when the locomotive is at the front of the train. Once there are level boarding platforms, it will become possible to customise the stopping position for each length of train at each station, to manage passenger distribution and minimise walking distances for customers.
The Uniform Code of Operating Rules and Transport Canada have a set of clearances that all equipment has to meet and these require the platforms on the accessible level to be set back from the edge of the rolling stock. If it isn't then equipment must operate at lower speed, at least freights. seems to have no problem blowing by UP platform at high speed. If GO wanted high level platforms they should have put in gauntlet track to allow the stopping trains to move over to the side while through trains could speed past.
How do you think they will transition the stations? Shut them down and try and pour the concrete quickly, shut down only one platform, or do it in stages and have only part of the platforms open?
I assume they will do part of the platform at a time, as they currently do for most platform reconstructions. Except at Union Station, where they will need to shut down one platform at a time, since so many passengers per train get on/off there that they can't keep some of the doors closed.
I'm confident that GO Transit will expand 6 car trains to 10 car trains again once the pandemic is cleared up. All trains prior to the pandemic were 10 cars, so I believe this is a temporary measure while passenger loads are reduced.
They already did expand most trains back to 10 or 12 cars at rush hour, because service levels are still far lower than pre-pandemic. However, shorter trains are not a temporary situation. The plan for GO expansion calls for shorter trains in general in order to improve acceleration. It's actually the current 10-12 car trains which are temporary
I see snowmelt systems Metrolinx is installing on the new platforms on the Stouffville line. Are they just going to scrap that system when raising the platform with concrete? Or, more interestingly, will they lower the track instead?
Yes I think the pipes in the current platform will be abandoned, but those are not that expensive. The pumping system can be reused. They will raise the platforms, according to the Passive Protection document I showed. Lowering the tracks would be a lot more expensive.
I feel like you left out key information, why weren't the trains designed to have level boarding from the beginning? was 127mm just the standard when it was originally constructed or what? did no one make trains that could have level boarding back in 1967?
At the time, 610mm was not a standard height for platforms in Canada. There were only 127mm and 1220mm. The track owner (CN) forbid 1220mm platforms because it could restrict the size of their freight trains, and 127mm is too low for the floor of a train.
UTA's gap fillers are not adjustable because the stations always had platforms level with the train. They never needed to accommodate a transition period
This whole thing just seems like a case of oversight and lack of care. They should have just added the at-grade gap fillers as they were setting up the lines and gone straight for the full height.
I am always wondering what's the difference between the dark green cars and light green cars of the GO trains? Now the majority of the cars are light green in color, but in your video all of the cars are dark green. Is the dark green one of the old version?
Level boarding is going hand in hand with electrification. Once it is decided what type of rolling stock will be used for the electric trains, then level boarding modifications can commence. Ie: entirely new EMU trains, or electric locomotives on current stock. No point in modding bilevel coaches if they will be replaced soon anyway.
ONxpress, the succesfull applicant for GO Expansion, plans to keep the current fleet of BiLevel coaches, and only purchase some new cab cars and electric locomotives.
They do that in order to force passengers to form two queues while entering/exiting, instead of just one. That increases the doorway capacity. But it causes problems for large items such as strollers or bicycles
Yes, I agree. I don't sit upstairs because I'm afraid I won't get off on time being slow. I also twisted my knee a few years ago and getting on was so difficult with this stupid height. It's 2022 and this should have been done 20 years ago.
Nobody benefits from the time trains currently spend standing still with the doors closed while the Customer Service Ambassador manually places or picks up the wheelchair ramp.
It doesn't cost any more to build 610mm platforms, and GO is already building tons of new platforms regardless. Not every platform needs to have level boarding at every door. Freight trains are present on all GO lines. The designs accommodate them using gauntlet tracks or third tracks like the one at Rutherford which I mentioned in the video.
@@OntarioTrafficMan So the rest of Ontario doesn't deserve a government that will work for it. Why only the GTA. It's a compounding problem where places like Kingston and Ottawa don't get any kind of investment because Toronto is the only part of Ontario that is considered.
@@electricerger Just because high capacity rail transport is focused in areas which need high capacity, does not mean that all other areas are ignored by the government.
Great Job with this, I wish I made it - its succinct and wonderfully executed!
Thanks! I am wondering if it's actually too succinct and the rate of info is overwhelming. I can follow along fine, but then again I wrote the script!
@@OntarioTrafficMan To me this feels like the right speed vs amount of info. I didnt have to backtrack to catch a missed fact.
@@frtls Thanks for the feedback! Very helpful.
I had been taking go transit for years before I had my knee injury in 2020. Now it makes boarding the GO train a bit awkward because I can walk fine but steps are a struggle. So people see what looks like a perfectly healthy young person using the handicap car when in reality I just need that ramp to get on. If I'm not on that car then I struggled to get on and off.
The accessible coach is available for everyone, regardless of any disability. I don't think you need to worry about what others think.
Hopefully in the future every coach will be an accessible coach and it will become a non-issue.
Great job on this vid. Helps passengers understand what is going on at the stations 👍
1:06 you are so right, this does make the train slower at times.
Great video! Glad to hear they made decisions to implement level boarding everwhere in the future :)
It's so frustrating to see new trains that don't have level boarding. I can understand not retrofitting old trains that are planned to go out of service in a few years, but buying new trains with stairs? Really? I'm guessing that some of the people making decisions never actully ride trains themselves.
(Had to haul a heavy suitcase in and out a train yesterday and still annoyed lol)
GO was originally planning to already start converting trains years ago (note the last line in the document at 1:29) but they later decided to delay the conversions until after 2022 when the "OnCorr" contract is awarded, which includes massive infrastructure changes such as level boarding, electrification, new signalling, and railway widening, as well as purchasing trains and operating the system.
As of this month, the preferred bidder for the OnCorr contract is a "ONxpress", a consortium including Bombardier/Alstom and Deutsche Bahn.
Personally I think they still should have started retrofitting trains in advance of the contract, because there's not much chance that ONxpress will decide on a different floor height than the 610mm standard that GO has already been protecting for for years.
Thanks for adding actual captions for the Deaf
This is very well made.
Great video!
I feel like the plan is to wait for the new rolling stock, which will probably come equipped with gap fillers at around 600mm height, maybe slightly lower even.
Switzerland has had gap fillers on most trains for about 30 years now, and it allows for passenger stations in tight curves and freight trains passing through, as it brings the platform away from the tracks, while leaving no gap
The plan for GO Expansion does not involve buying much new rolling stock. They are planning to buy new electric locomotives and use them with the existing coaches.
I always find low or ground level platforms really strange. Just about every station in Australia has level boarding. Although there is still the problem of the gap and at some stations you still have step up into the carriage.
It originates with freight railways. They didn't want anything sticking up above the ground restricting the size of their trains. Until about a decade ago, most of the rails used by GO trains were owned by freight railways.
@@OntarioTrafficMan I didn’t realise the origins of the low platforms. Hopefully things will improve. Thanks for the great content!
@@anthonywalsh2164 Things are definitely improving quickly!
Thank you!
@@OntarioTrafficMan but will it be possible to upgrade all the newly build stations too?
@@nicolasblume1046 see 3:05
good writing and accompanied slides
In a lot of areas the ramp is automated and hydralic
So all GO trains stop at the same location on the platform, regardless of length?
In Sydney Australia, our shorter trains stop closer to the centre of the platform, and there are different markings on the platform indicating where they stop.
Correct. The locomotive always stops in the same position, and the accessible coach is always the 5th back from the locomotive, regardless of whether there are 6, 8, 10, or 12 coaches in total.
I think this operation is probably for simplicity, so that they always add/remove coaches from the same side and always stop at the same position when the locomotive is at the front of the train.
Once there are level boarding platforms, it will become possible to customise the stopping position for each length of train at each station, to manage passenger distribution and minimise walking distances for customers.
The Uniform Code of Operating Rules and Transport Canada have a set of clearances that all equipment has to meet and these require the platforms on the accessible level to be set back from the edge of the rolling stock. If it isn't then equipment must operate at lower speed, at least freights. seems to have no problem blowing by UP platform at high speed. If GO wanted high level platforms they should have put in gauntlet track to allow the stopping trains to move over to the side while through trains could speed past.
Or they could use automatic gap fillers like I mentioned in the video...
How do you think they will transition the stations? Shut them down and try and pour the concrete quickly, shut down only one platform, or do it in stages and have only part of the platforms open?
I assume they will do part of the platform at a time, as they currently do for most platform reconstructions. Except at Union Station, where they will need to shut down one platform at a time, since so many passengers per train get on/off there that they can't keep some of the doors closed.
Apart from full level boarding also install portcullis style platform edge doors which are manually operated by in station conductors
I'm confident that GO Transit will expand 6 car trains to 10 car trains again once the pandemic is cleared up. All trains prior to the pandemic were 10 cars, so I believe this is a temporary measure while passenger loads are reduced.
They already did expand most trains back to 10 or 12 cars at rush hour, because service levels are still far lower than pre-pandemic.
However, shorter trains are not a temporary situation. The plan for GO expansion calls for shorter trains in general in order to improve acceleration. It's actually the current 10-12 car trains which are temporary
I see snowmelt systems Metrolinx is installing on the new platforms on the Stouffville line. Are they just going to scrap that system when raising the platform with concrete? Or, more interestingly, will they lower the track instead?
Yes I think the pipes in the current platform will be abandoned, but those are not that expensive. The pumping system can be reused.
They will raise the platforms, according to the Passive Protection document I showed. Lowering the tracks would be a lot more expensive.
I feel like you left out key information, why weren't the trains designed to have level boarding from the beginning? was 127mm just the standard when it was originally constructed or what? did no one make trains that could have level boarding back in 1967?
At the time, 610mm was not a standard height for platforms in Canada. There were only 127mm and 1220mm. The track owner (CN) forbid 1220mm platforms because it could restrict the size of their freight trains, and 127mm is too low for the floor of a train.
Wouldn’t the gap filler be more similar to UTA frontrunners cars? Since they have a gap filler too no?
UTA's gap fillers are not adjustable because the stations always had platforms level with the train. They never needed to accommodate a transition period
@@OntarioTrafficMan ah makes sense.
Go GO gadget step!
This whole thing just seems like a case of oversight and lack of care.
They should have just added the at-grade gap fillers as they were setting up the lines and gone straight for the full height.
They probably wanted to, but the freight companies who owned the railways at the time would not allow it.
I am always wondering what's the difference between the dark green cars and light green cars of the GO trains? Now the majority of the cars are light green in color, but in your video all of the cars are dark green. Is the dark green one of the old version?
Yes. The cars with two different shades of green are in the new colours
they do have raised platforms with lvl access
0:38
I learned a lot from this video. I didn't know you came back to Toronto
finally update a video in 4 months
1:13 thats a safety violation
Level boarding is going hand in hand with electrification. Once it is decided what type of rolling stock will be used for the electric trains, then level boarding modifications can commence. Ie: entirely new EMU trains, or electric locomotives on current stock. No point in modding bilevel coaches if they will be replaced soon anyway.
ONxpress, the succesfull applicant for GO Expansion, plans to keep the current fleet of BiLevel coaches, and only purchase some new cab cars and electric locomotives.
Some of the train entrances also have a steel bar going through the middle of the doorway. Makes it impossible to get a stroller through.
They do that in order to force passengers to form two queues while entering/exiting, instead of just one. That increases the doorway capacity. But it causes problems for large items such as strollers or bicycles
@@OntarioTrafficMan just goes to show you can't please everyone
Too bad you weren't around when GO only had the single level coaches from their opening to the mid 80's. You had more steps to climb.
The Go Train barely hangs around long enough to get off for such a large beast. And you want it to spend less time at the station?
Yes, I agree. I don't sit upstairs because I'm afraid I won't get off on time being slow.
I also twisted my knee a few years ago and getting on was so difficult with this stupid height. It's 2022 and this should have been done 20 years ago.
Nobody benefits from the time trains currently spend standing still with the doors closed while the Customer Service Ambassador manually places or picks up the wheelchair ramp.
It would be expensive on the entire rail network. Also on a few of the lines, you also have Frieght trains.
It doesn't cost any more to build 610mm platforms, and GO is already building tons of new platforms regardless. Not every platform needs to have level boarding at every door.
Freight trains are present on all GO lines. The designs accommodate them using gauntlet tracks or third tracks like the one at Rutherford which I mentioned in the video.
Southern apparently doesn't mean 'South-Eastern, just South & South-West!
There's no such thing as South-Eastern Ontario because the south-eastern border of Ontario is a diagonal line.
Here, Have a flag for engagement sake 🇨🇦
5:27 You could bypass the step with you making bigger steps with your legs
Ah yes the Government of Ontario train. Because Toronto is the only part of Ontario.
Of the 71 GO Train stations, only 19 are in Toronto.
@@OntarioTrafficMan And it's service area only makes up about 1% of Ontario.
@@electricerger Yeah because 90% of Ontario is remote wilderness
@@OntarioTrafficMan So the rest of Ontario doesn't deserve a government that will work for it. Why only the GTA. It's a compounding problem where places like Kingston and Ottawa don't get any kind of investment because Toronto is the only part of Ontario that is considered.
@@electricerger Just because high capacity rail transport is focused in areas which need high capacity, does not mean that all other areas are ignored by the government.