@@shoelessjoe428 Dutch model for gas stations is to auction off the consessions for motorway gas stations to the highest bidder for a 5 or 10 year period, and set strict requirements for what services are to be offered. Fail to meet and exceed that, you're not allowed to bid on a renewal. And that's for each location separate. Never understood why then for EV chargers they gave a nationwide monopoly to a single provider. Unless of course that provider (FastNed) has strong political connections...
@@jwenting From the customer's point of view its not really the big highway service area sites that are critical for success with a charging network. Those are just going to happen, because they can make money, and its easy to have chargers from multiple networks at those locations. What matters more for success from the customer's point of view is having actual working chargers in more remote spots, and that's where charging support is really weak right now. You might only have one charger in a large area, there's a good chance it will be broken, and the web sites which try to track that kind of thing are weak. If you want to scan for which chargers are functional and not busy at this moment, before heading to they only one you can find in range of your remaining charge, good luck when you get there. Gas stations are entirely interchangeable. Few people consistently buy from the same chain. Chargers are conceptually interchangeable, but right now they are not. You need an account with each provider, or the experience at the charger is expensive, painful or both. Gas stations almost always have fuel. When diesel cars were rare in the UK, there were lots of diesel vans and trucks. So, every service station had diesel, and the diesel car market could easily grow. You often had to fill your expensive diesel Mercedes in a spot that looked like something from a Mad Max movie, but there were plenty of them around. Chargers are thinly spread, break a lot, and maintenance is weak. I can't see this changing much until electric cars are commonplace.
@@coppice2778 nice theory, but as long as governments grant monopolies to single providers to provide fast charging networks along the motorways, and don't provide those companies incentives to actually build the charging stations (and often don't even grant the construction permits...) it's not going to happen. That's the situation in several countries right now, including the Netherlands where I live. Single company has a monopoly, government announces bit plan to have fast chargers every 50km by 2025, but they're not setting aside the roadside land to build the charging stations (most of which would have to be repurposed from existing highway stops in a crowded country like the Netherlands, or confiscated from farmers or industrial estates along the highways). So progress towards that goal has ground to a halt with less than a quarter of the needed infrastructure built, and what's there isn't upgraded to keep up with changing technology (most of it is still 50KW for example, though some new stations offer 150KW on part of their chargers). Most locations that are constructed also only have 2-3 CCS chargers, plus 1-2 AC chargers... And as there's no competition, there's no incentive to improve.
In the nine months since owning my Jaguar IPace I've only needed to charge on a motorway twice and both times Ecotricity charge points weren't working. The company only provide 50kw of charging and these are unreliable. In my opinion their monopoly position should be taken away from them immediately and opened up to competition. Shame on you Ecotricity.
Ecotricity are a disgrace and an embarrassment to the EV industry. Unless you are considering a Tesla, or only using your EV locally..... Don't bother. The EV revolution in the UK is a JOKE, just like Brexit and every other government hair-brained scheme which are designed to get votes and bolster the ego's of politicians. An example locally, is that there are NO government funded charging stations. There is only ONE charging station located at an hotel, meanwhile our local council planning committee has just deliberated over, and granted permission for Sainbsburys to demolish a perfectly good building to build a £multimillion new one, incorporating a large petrol station ( fossil fuels only), NO hint of any commitment at all to the government's pledge of phasing out ICE vehicles and promoting the escalation of EV's. the biggest joke of the councils decision to permit this development is that there are already 2 large petrol stations ( BP & Tesco) within 50 yards.....CRAZY! I sent an email to our local MP Damien Moore and to the local council planning dept for comment, to date, after 6 months, I have yet to receive any response from either. BTW, I own an EV.
David doesn’t matter if you think the government grants are good enough they are available but it’s down to local councils to apply for and make use of them.
Not a fan of ecotricty at all. Waste of space and time, what is the point of a fuel station if it's hit or miss if it's working or not. The attitude of staff when called was a bad experience and all they were interested in was trying to get me on their expensive supply company. This is said from experience with needing them to charge our Leaf on a longer journey. The Tesla network.. yes the cars are out of most normal people purse but the network is the way forward. Enjoy your channel. Keep it up.
@knowledge share That's all well and good, but when your nearest Superchargers are a two hour round trip away from the city in which you live (unless you travel late at night), plus charging time, they're about as useful as soup in a basket.
Best EV video I have seen in a long time, I've experienced all the issues you highlighted. Electric Highway update or move over. One type of charger would help
I now totally avoid Ecotricity’s EH. Had several bad experiences with them and my Kona. Dale Vince should be told he has lost the monopoly ASAP and let multiple other networks into each Service area on our motorways.
Several points on this video that would require its own video. Let me tell you a story about my wife's parents in the '80s. They bought a new car and they always traveled from their home to their grandparents. The previous car, they knew, required a stop at a certain point (the last gas station on the road) otherwise they wouldn't make it. With the new car, they just didn't know and at the first try, they agreed to keep going and see what would happen. Of course, they couldn't make it, they almost reached the border of the city. My father in law had to get a ride to the city, buy gas, bring it back and drive to the city's gas station. They learned how much they could push the car, where they need to stop and how much the trip would cost. I believe people would do the same with EV's. They would test it, stretch it out, figure how to be on the safe side and then, rely on the charging stations. If the station can't charge, it would be the same as my in-laws stopping at the last gas station and not having fuel. They would have to improvise. We will hear a lot of stories like yours and my in-laws. We will learn and demand better services. Right now EV owners are just like the first Model T owners, nowhere to fuel, had to think where to put gas... Everyone was laughing at them until they were the majority and fuel was everywhere, to the point you could pick and choose to whom your money would go. They were then the pioneers. Patience my friend, you are part of an EVolution in humanity. The next generation will tell stories about us and imagine how hard it was. We are suffering now to give them a better place. We are the pioneers. Congrats to your daughter. Cheers.
@@EVOpinion Look at the Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894, and a visionary called Henry Ford. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_horse_manure_crisis_of_1894 See any similarities with where we are today?
@Bruges Manioracci Valid view but that's not the point here really. The question is basically "are electric vehicles ready for mainstream?" 2019 is a far cry from the Model T era (true pioneers). The electricity grid has been around for donkeys' years. It isn't "new technology". The fact is that the current [sic] infrastructure is simply not good enough for people who will want to do longer trips. Here in Aus it's abysmal, at least for the time being. Within city limits there is absolutely no problem, of course. Tesla is in a better state since they have a fair headstart and kudos to them. But this rush to push EVs to market is too much too early. Just my opinion. 👍
@@nsw72 That was the point I was making, that in the days of the Model T Ford, fuel was an issue as they didn't have the extensive infrastructure that we have today, and charging stations are at the same stage of early deployment.
I live in the westernmost part of France (Finistere), between where I live and St. Malo is about 219 km. In that journey I pass 200 charging stations within 1 km of my route. Every department in Brittany has installed two charging points in nearly every town. E.G in my town, pop 3,500 there are two charging points of 22kwh. The difference is that in the UK, they leave it to the market, which in many sectors does not deliver. Infrastructure needs to be centrally planned, which is why in the UK the govmnt established the national grid and the postal service as well as the telephone service. Even now, they are having to intervene with public cash to ensure universal broadband. In my little town, I have 18 mbs, which is about to be upgraded. The problem, like so many others in the UK, stem from the UK (well England really) going down the path following St Margaret of the Church of Thatcherology. A path that has inexorably led to the idiocy of Brexit.
Tony Powell, well described. It also makes me think, why in the video it is been talked about a world that is UK and America. Please have a look to your close partners, the other countries in Europe. They do come up with a lot of intelligent solutions. Why not get some more information from here?
Spot on! But then you hear Labour voters claiming that they "can't vote Corbyn because he is weak etc." - bollocks I say, if I could, I would vote Corbyn - best man out there. Funny also that having lived here as Austrian since 2002, worked and paid taxes throughout, I am only allowed to vote in local elections. I've got 2 kids who were born and go to school here yet I can't vote national...
Ruediger Preiss, why should you not vote? Because you have had additional experience as someone who also lived abroad? Then there is something wrong with the electoral system in UK. I have also heard that as a UK Citizen you are not allowed to vote if you have lived abroad for a couple of years. I wonder why this is the way it is? It gives people with more experience less to say. Ok, this was completely Off Topic, sorry 😐
ed h the air quality would be greatly improved. The city centre would be quieter. There would be more rapid charger and 7kw points all over the place, just as in Norway.
It just shows how dated Ecotricity is. In 2011 CCS was relatively new, and few EVs about so Dale Vince didn't install it. He has now moved on to other interests and lost interest in the electric highway. It is time for Ecotricity to go, if necessary the issue needs to be forced to get other companies in. The service stations can't be happy losing revenue everyone an EV driver has to go elsewhere. I am looking to stretch myself financially to get a longer range EV to avoid having to use public rapids. Once Ecotricity goes, access to service station customers will be a viable business model for companies to install viable charging infrastructure. I have seen comments from EV owners going back to ICE due to Ecotricity!
I hope a company like Podpoint take it over - they’re installing new rapid chargers and only charging 23p per kWh so their commercial model clearly works - oh, their chargers are more reliable too!
Very honest video from somebody who is an advocate of EVs. I sometimes think we need to go back to basics. What sort of network do we need that can, exactly, replicate the refueling of an ICE car. We are light years away from that. The goodwill towards EVs is there but people will not compromise. They don't want apps (whose bloody idea was that anyway) they want contactless or apple pay (or the android equivalent). They want to be certain, absolutely certain, that they can get a charge anytime anyplace. It might need the government to intervene as the market is failing here.
The government are the ones who grant the monopoly... Same in the Netherlands where FastNed have a monopoly and as a result don't care about installing any more charging stations than they already have except at a snail's pace, and most of those only have 2 50KW rapid chargers and 2 AC chargers.
EH Give them a three month warning to upgrade these old chargers if they so no then they have defaulted on the contract of supply then open each motorway site to any other suppliers with a warning if they consistently fail it is take them out and give another the chance to replace the position. By the way a few weeks ago I did a 445 mile road trip to the south west of england and used the EH chargers all the way down M4 & M5 all worked fine and that was having worked out an option charge point if any had failed to work. This trip was in a 24kWh Leaf it was a lot of fun and no stress.
The CPS network in scotland is also patchy re reliability on Rapids, they blame comms (02 etc) they blame CPS back office systems , or its the manufacturers fault on the unit , or its the local council not taking out a maintance contract with the manufacturer of the rapid , everyone 'pass's the buck ' and round and round it goes ! We're leaning on CPS and Transport for Scotland, to address these issues ASAP ! When i take my leaf south from orkney , i shouldn't be crossing my fingers that a rapid works , or breath a sigh of relief that i get a charge , it's 2019 ! Since 2011 evs have been on the road , in 8 years we still have a network that's not 100% reliable ! Great video , you make good points , that IS holding folk back from getting into evs who want to do longer trips. Let's look at Norway , 60% of all new car registered are EVs , their networks must be better otherwise we wouldnt see such a great take up ! Rant over !!
As an owner of a Tesla Model 3 in Florida, I have made two cross-country trips this year, once to the US west coast and later to Utah and return, driving nearly 20K miles total. The Tesla charging network is extremely good, well-spaced and reliable. There are regions where Tesla should install additional Supercharger stations, such as in southwestern Colorado, but since I was able to access (free) L2 chargers, there were no problems making the trip. I use ABetterRoutePlanner.com to preplan my trip and let the car confirm each leg of the route. For future EV buyers who cannot afford a new Tesla, I would urge them to consider a good used Tesla rather than giving up and wasting more money on an ICE vehicle.
Ecotricity need to be given a deadline or they are out. I applaud them for initially pushing us forward to this point but sadly I don't believe they have the resource or backing to take it to the next step. I can see there possibly being another option and you touched on it in your video Ryan. An existing infrastructure that is already built and already has the highest standard of chargers. Tesla, bare with me. They have been very open to the possibility of other car companies using their network but so far, none have taken them up. With government backing we could: 1. insist the manufacturing standard of CCS is used, which most vehicles seem to be going over to anyway. 2. force other car companies to do a deal with Tesla as a proviso to having the privilege of selling their cars to this country. What do you think, too draconian?
You're absolutely spot-on. It was the lack of chargers in our area (an East Midland city), coupled with no obvious way of charging at home, which stopped us from buying a new EV last time we needed to replace our car. Public charging is beginning to improve here, but CCS chargers are still scarce, and our local authority seems to think that 7 kW chargers are fast, and are therefore a good option. Councillors often don't seem to live in the real world. There's almost no point in having 7kW, sometimes even 3kW chargers, and then having a 2 hour maximum stay limit, or a high parking fee for long stay parking, in a car park. But that’s what happens, all too often.
I would give them 6 moths to a year to demonstrate that they are significantly improving their Network, in recognition of their initial investment, and if this doesn't happen then their monopoly should be ended and the sites opened up to other operators......... Long Term Monopolies are no good for consumers as history shows and with such a fundamentally important service to the widespread adoption of EV's across the country I feel the Monopoly should be ended within 2 years maximum irrespective...........we dont buy diesel or petrol from one supplier on Motorways and the same has to happen with energy supplies for EV's
What a fantastic to-the-point video. I've owned my Leaf for 18 months now, and with all my journeys being a 35 mile round commute with charging at home, its an ideal car for me. This week, I needed to do a much longer trip from Southampton to Blackpool and the Ecotricity chargers around and north of Birmingham were all showing issues on Zapmap. To be safe, I did the trip in an ICE car. Shame on Ecotricity for their monopoly and poor service; the sooner they step back and allow competitors to put rapids in the motorway service stations the better. As a side note... go one further and bin all the Apps and go to contactless debit card payments! Thank you for the video EV Opinion, it's very much appreciated!
I could not agree more with you. I do not believe Ecotricity have the means to put in the required number of motorway chargers and so service stations should be opened up to other providers. I avoid any apps (other than Ecotricity) and just love contactless payment fast chargers like; Shell, Instavolt, Polar Instant / BP. They have to be the way to go. Would love to see a bank of fast chargers from different providers at every service station. To move forward it has to be; reliable, available and simple. Thanks for a great UA-cam channel.
I have had a Tesla for 4 years, I live in France. Initially there were very few chargers but tesla had recognized they would have to make the investment, which they did. The French government required the electricity company to install chargers in every village and town. Which they did. For a year I went round looking for these chargers trying to be the first to use them. Great fun, but for my tesla, completely useless, why pay for a very slow charge when I could use free tesla chargers. Then I drove to Sweden and back, about 5000 miles, just to see what problems I might have. Absolutely no problems all the way. The point I would make is Tesla made a huge investment in infrastructure, no other manufacturer has made a similar investment yet. Tesla even offered to make their network available to any other manufacture if they would make a similar investment. No one took them up on the offer. It was all, how do we destroy Tesla. They used different connectors and charging systems just to try and slow down Tesla. My reaction to your problem is to be very unkind and say, serves you right for choosing a Kona, but I know that’s wrong of me. But you see how inter company rivalry just has the effect of slowing us all down. For example, why does each charging network need their own credit card or phone app? What’s wrong with using my MasterCard or Visa, one day that will no doubt be possible, but generally in Europe not yet. Meanwhile Tesla moves ahead of every one. I have told Elon that I will drive from France to his factory in shanghai along the Silk Road as soon as he installs all the chargers along the way. His reply, .....soon!
You have summed up perfectly the main barrier to adoption of EV's. Too many apps, too many broken/unreliable charging stations. Why can't they just all agree to use contactless payment? Its a total mess. Tesla is the company who have this sorted out, which is why owning a Tesla is such an easy choice. I have a Model 3 so while I don't have free supercharging, for the occasional use I make of the network, it works flawlessly and is just charged to my account. I can charge at home and at work, but imagine living in a big city where you don't have your own charger, and you have to depend on a public charger? What a nightmare scenario that would be! Great video, and you have hit the nail on the head!
As a new EV owner I am surprised how poor the public charging network currently is. If the UK Government is serious about going green in the not so distant future then a lot has to be done very soon. EV great for local runaround, but long distance driving is where the problems are found. Tesla are showing the way, but we can't all afford one of them, nor should we have to in order to get a satisfactory experience.
Well done for raising awareness of this problem. If the next government is serious about reducing the UK’s carbon emissions, it needs to step in and fund the charging infrastructure. Great video as always. 👍
I was about to buy an MG ZS EV. I looked at the WLTP range with a Combined mileage of 163 miles. This car would have suited me, BUT I halted the plan because of the poor infrastructure on the east coast of Yorkshire. Until resorts massively increase the number of charging options, then people with electric cars are not going to visit them. I bought another ICE car with the hope that the infrastructure will be much better in 2 years time. Your video just confirmed that, for now, my decision to hold off was correct. I really enjoy your videos. Thank you for them.
I agree the infrastructure is not in place yet. That is why I have decided to keep my plug in hybrid a few more years. I only charge at home and all my local journeys are on electric and revert to petrol on long journeys. I think it is the best of both worlds at the moment.
I was going to buy a BMW i3 been iffing and butting for a year just about but I am not going to bother, live in Doncaster area South Yorkshire and public charging is dire in Doncaster it's a big area I'm 12 mile from Doncaster centre and near me upto Doncaster centre where I drive there are maybe 6 places to charge half being slow ones and everyone I go to these places I look and nearly always iced. Not enough charging stations at all hell our shopping centre does not even have any at all lol I'm getting a new A-class instead more bang for my buck also and that is going against a used i3 lol
Totally agree with this. It’s only going to get worse as more EVs on the road will lead to charger congestion. You’re right we need 6 chargers in banks on trunk roads that we can be reasonably sure of. Tesla were very astute in their charger network rollout. My next car will be a PHEV or a Tesla - the stress level of a pure EV is just not worth it!
I approach longer journeys in my 22kWh Zoe as an adventure, just like motoring in the Edwardian era. I an very familiar with the characteristics of my car, and I always have backup plans for en-route charging. Arriving at my destination, with enough charge to live for another day, is a victory:-). When I change to a longer range EV, I think it will just feel too easy. This does mean that I keep a keen eye on where the chargers are on my routes. What I notice, looking at the apps for the various individual networks, is that there are various chargers on networks like Shell Recharge and Polar springing up that are not listed on Zap Map and PlugShare yet. So it pays to check those as well, in case you are missing some useful options. I do agree that many of the EH chargers are ageing, not maintained properly, and some of their replacements are questionable - just look at Oxford service if you want an example of that. And their CCS chargining is woeful. Their rubbish CCS is one key reason why I would not consider buying a CCS car like the Ionic instead of the Zoe last year. EH should not have a monopoly on the motorway services network any more.
And that's why I drive a Tesla Model 3. I have enough range to not require public charging. I use destination chargers only for the novelty, plus they are free and I get a good parking spot. When on longer trips I use superchargers which are in good locations, easy to use, always work, and value for money. If I had a Nissan LEAF I'd only charge it at home and use as a second car for school runs and local shopping.
You are on point with this one. Similar problems exist in the US. Our Tesla model S travels like a hamp. Went MD to FL and regularly drew down to 2 or 5 percent (so we could charge faster upon arrival) went flawlessly. That was our third 1600+ mile round trip to FL. 2013 model S 85
Very worrying!...I am coming to the UK in my e-Niro next month. I thought the Ionity networks were going on the motorway services over there.. They seem to be getting on to the autoroute service stations over here in France, although up until recently most Rapid DC chargers were a km or 2 off the main autoroutes. I wondered if Total and other oil companies had been keeping them off but I saw a row of 5 new Ionity chargers on the A10 north of Tours a few months back so things are improving.. Do ‘Electric Highway’ really have a monopoly on UK service stations? The UK is supposed to be an exemplar of free market competition while in France we have ‘le dirigisme’..Sorry, bit of a political dig there...I am amazed at how every little community in rural France seem to have a 7.2kw charger, there are some near us in the Poitou Charente in villages of 200 people!...The Rapid charge situation could be improved a lot though and it is a big country so long trips need a bit of planning. To be fair we have had no problem getting on to 50Kw DC chargers on trips to Switzerland and Brittany, never found one broken so far but did find one that being commissioned and was free..it had AC and DC options but the DC wasn’t working. Charged at Bordeaux airport for free on 7.2kw while picking someone up from there..they have 20 EV spaces!...Most French towns have a few FOC charging places in pay car parks, have used them in Poitiers and Niort. Thanks for raising this issue, someone please give Ecotricity a kicking..I was a customer and a big fan of Mr. Vince back in the 1990s when his customer service for domestic power was great..now the reputation is terrible and he needs some feedback.
I live in Littleton, Colorado, USA (Denver Suburbs). After moving back to CO from living in a more rural setting that wouldn't support much of an EV lifestyle outside of Teslas; I decided to get an EV after much research on available public plug-ins, costs of vehicle, operating one, etc. Your videos helped me get to here, so I'm very much appreciative of your content … thank you! I opted for a Leaf, and have been loving it. Best car I've ever owned so far. Our network out here, while fairly reliable at first (it's only been 5 months!) has seemed to dwindle in its reliability. My closest one hasn't absolutely worked for the better part of two months. The second closest, and one of the newer ones, I pulled up to yesterday and it was completely shot. Someone broke one of them and was out of order, and the other seemed to be on but not working. Another close-by source's plug doesn't even work with my car, so it's out for me. One of the more frustrating things, as you mentioned, was this info wasn't readily available to me before heading to these locations. And even if I wanted to find out this info, the number of apps I have to go through is a bit silly and is a redundancy ICE drivers don't have to deal with. Luckily enough I work from, and can charge at home and don't have to worry about commutes. I've only ever taken my Leaf on trips in the metro area where I know I can charge at the location or at a destination if it's long enough. Again, thank you for the great content, I really enjoy watching your videos!
IMHO I think you are correct about Ecotricity. They should be applauded for the first leg of the venture however as you say they have had a monopoly since 2012. At most services they installed two chargers ( I know some were only one but bare with me) since then nothing. I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect them to add to the existing chargers at let's say 1 new charger every 2 years. If that had happened then most service areas would have had 5 or 6 chargers on each site, enough for an overlap for faults/out of action especially as unlike the other providers they only operate in the service areas ( I think) . I know it is an expensive capital expenditure to do this but we hear almost daily of how much money the Government has pledged to help the infrastructure. If Ecotricity cannot access this money they should be shouting from the rooftops about broken promises. End of rant.
This was exactly my point around 7 months ago when i found that Ecotricity "ccs fix" didnt work. With our Kona being our only car in the family and me having to regularly drive 500 miles to my Dads i learnt something very quickly, use ZapMap and highlight all ccs chargers except Ecotricity. Like you have said we were promised new chargers and faster chargers by Dale Vince at the first Q&A at fully charge few years ago enough is enough now. Like you i agree that time is up for them, all networks should be able to install at services but it would be very useful if regardless of the charger or tariff they all just worked from contactless payment.
I was an early adopter back in 2013 and had 2 x Nissan Leafs, after a spirited investment from Nissan and Ecotricity the Investment in the EH stopped, Dale Vince basically land grabbed access to all of the MSA across the country, he only let Tesla in there because they paid a huge sum for access at selected service areas, the chargers that they used were in comparison to others poor quality and suffered from many faults and issues, they are better but are still very unreliable. Dale Vince and his company might look like they spurned the adoption of electric cars in the UK however they are now holding it back, I understand in many ways why they are reluctant to invest so heavily as its a very tricky business to make money in, the chargers are very expensive, they are expensive to install and maintain and they are abused and mis used very often, also people dont want to pay much more than their domestic rate for the electricity they provide. Government should do a lot more to support the installation and maintenance of these sites and then maybe we will see some change, I am getting a Tesla Model 3 next year, I did consider other manufacturer's but most decent car options have moved over to CCS I am not confident about any other car with CCS than a Tesla Model 3 because of the supercharger network, your new electric car experience can go from great to really bad very quickly if you rely on the electric highway for long journeys, particularly if your car is CCS. If I were the government I would give Dale Vince a deadline, hes very keen in taking everyone to court to get his way, its about time someone did that with him and kicked him out of the Motorway Service Areas.
Thank you for this - it’s what I’ve been thinking for a while: EVs are great and I want one, BUT, the charger situation for non Tesla owners is not fit for purpose. I can’t persuade my wife that we should get an EV as our only car until the charging situation is at least as good as the Tesla setup. As more EVs become available this is only going to get worse surely. I know you can charge at home and wake up with a 'full tank' but if you are having a holiday touring around the UK, which we like to do, we do not want to be stressing about chargers not working or not being available. Petrol stations are so ubiquitous that it’s never an issue to find one and even if all pumps are in use you know it will only be a few minutes before someone will leave. It’s a catch 22 isn’t - EVs won’t become more popular until the charging network is fit for purpose; and who is going to invest in chargers unless there are enough EVs to make it economically viable. The genius of Tesla is that they saw this and put in the charging network first thus breaking the circle - it took a lot of money of course! So unless we can afford a Tesla (unlikely) I’m afraid an EV is not for me until there’s a dramatic improvement in the charging network and/or battery range and/or charging speeds. I’m sure the oil companies are very happy with this situation! I’ll keep watching your channel of course, as I know I will get good unbiased information here.
One of the things we do when considering our holiday is to look for places with a charge point(s) you can use whilst staying there. It can be quite a trial but they do exist and we have had the last 3 years holiday at B&B's and cottages with charging available. We also consider the journey and plan any charging necessary around natural and meal stops so in actuality the charging takes as long as it takes to plug in. We are a one car couple.
@@EVOpinion Hi, I mean hotels, B&B, cottages and holiday parks that have charging facilities that they advertise, not somewhere where I can use the 'Granny Cable'. Although that can also come in handy.
@@manwithcorsae7738 most people can not or should not be arsed or have to piss about with that. And that is the issue, also not everyone likes to meticulously plan a touring holiday
Hi Ryan. Thanks for posting what’s a really important message. In brief answer to your questions (as a Kona owner myself): (1) Ecotricity either needs to urgently upgrade their infrastructure or other providers need to given the opportunity to install chargers in our motoway service stations (their CCS connectors are notoriously unreliable with the Kona (keep tripping out) and so simply can’t be relied on); (2) whether it’s a good idea to buy an EV depends on where you live as there is such a geographical variability in the current distribution of rapid chargers (related presumably to levels of EV ownership) - should be fine if you live in the SE for example where there are abundant chargers and providers but you’d struggle if you bought a second hand Leaf for example and travelled extensively around parts of the NW where they’re thin on the ground.
Unfortunately the supercharger experience isn’t great either. Stoped for my first supercharger experience on Sunday. Should have been 150kw & a 15 minute stop but the charge varied between 32kw and 53kw which resulted in queues and a 1 hour stop. Wife has now ruled out any long trips in the Tesla.
Just reflecting further on the points made in the video. One thing that seems to happen is that you get clusters of chargers. In Warrington there is an out of town shopping centre called Gemini. 2 chargers at M&S and another 4 at IKEA next door. Also a few main dealers have them along with leisure centres and the like. Then there are the charge point deserts. This shows how we need a strategic approach with a focus on dealing with the "deserts" being a priority.
I couldn't agree more with your comments. We purchased a Leaf in 2014 and for the first few years everything was great. Unfortunately the number of chargers on the motorway never kept pace with the growing number of electric vehicles. The final straw came for us last Christmas when we tried to charge at services on the M62. There was already a car charging and another one waiting on both the outward and return journeys adding at least 2 hours to our traveling time. We have since swapped the Leaf for a diesel Mercedes which does at least 50 miles to the gallon. I have however also swapped my works pick up for the Nissan van which I can charge up overnight. So as you rightly say if you do regular journeys where you need to charge an electric car might not be for you.
Cannot understand why Ecotricity haven't updated their hardware to work with ALL cars that use CCS. I'd use them (and pay for the privilege) rather than seek out alternatives like Polar, Instavolt and Pod Point (plus GeniePoint and Engenie). Competition is key here. as Stephen Bird suggests, 2 providers in competition would be a good start. I popped into a Bannatynes gym today to charge my Kona. Could have got home on the charge I had, but it was an excuse to stop and use the cafe - I'm not a member but they are happy to let you use the cafe whilst charging. Turns out, it's 2 minutes from the M42 motorway. Easy to get to when you know where it is but not as convenient for many drivers as pulling into a service area and plugging in.
I think a large part is they simply don’t have the money. If you look over the history I believe they got a massive amount of cash from the government initially, since then they have done the bare minimum of maintenance and upgrading.
Totally agree with your comments, but I would go further. All public chargers should have a common payment system (ideally a card system) so that I/we don't have to look for chargers that have the App, card, or payment system that I/we are a familiar with. Secondly, there just aren't enough chargers in most locations you might drive through or visit. For example there are only two chargers in Harlow Essex, none in Waltham Abbey Essex, none in Bishops Stortford Essex. My three examples are busy towns with plenty of parking places, so why are there no charge points? I charge at home, which is fine for the places I visit, but if I had to drive out side the range of my car, I would straightaway have the worry of finding a charging point that is working & excepts my payment system.
Polar (ChargePoint) is worse than ever since BP (the oil company, the one who makes a packet from carbon spewers) bought it. The sin is double because if they were well maintained it would be great (they aren't) but worse is the apps don't get updated so you can drive off route to get to one to find (as you did) it's faulty.
I agree Polar has got worse since BP took over. I felt like a ping pong ball recently on journey to South Devon on M5 , with Polar and Ecotricity chargers not available to charge my ZE40Q90. Only one Polar between Bristol and Exeter's Racecourse and it was shutdown for Renovation of Harvester. Ecotricity has lots of single Rapids along this part of route and Sedgemoor still not working despite arriving after engineers just finishing servicing the unit? The plug end at Bridgewater's only rapid worked despite half shield around pins missing.
Well thanks for the depressing news, I've just signed a lease on my first EV a new Ioniq 38kWh! Hopefully I will be able to do the vast majority of charging at home but it would be nice to have a reliable fast charging network for the occasional longer trip.
There are definitely a lot of instances where the wrong type of chargers are being installed in the wrong type of places. Really annoying. And yes, Ecotricity are still blocking the most obvious place for rapid chargers and they aren’t expanding their network fast enough or really at all it seems like. I do use them myself and they tend to work well for me but I’m on type 2 and don’t have CCS which is where the problems tend to be.
In my opinion formed from long experience, Ecotricity are not the company with the right business commitment to run our core backbone charging network. For what it’s worth, Instavolt are without doubt the kind of company that can deliver a first class service and experience to the ever growing number of EV owners in the U.K. The problem here is politics and bureaucracy within local and National planning committees across this country are hindering Instavolt in their pursuit of prime sites. If I were a conspiracy theorist I would have to say some of this political BS is funded by the carbon exploration industry.
I'm truly sorry to hear your frustration and Ecotricity not keeping up when they were a leader, there is so much information, new cars and competition now and if they cannot met or exceed what is becoming standard then they deserve to loose their monopoly because they are FAILING the Public. I hope someone send your video to the CEO of the company on twitter, and wherever they can see it. It's not rocket science ( now even those are better and do things they never did before) and since EV's are the future, they have no excuse.
I agree with everything you said. Q1: Ecotricity should lose their monopoly ASAP. Q2: Recommend EVs? If you only do local journeys and can charge at home then yes, otherwise, in the UK, probably no. My main problem is ICEing. It's time for the government to get a grip and sort it out. No one else can. Is the situation better in Scotland?
I am lucky, I own a Tesla and the charging infrastructure is always brilliant. It is never an issue for me to travel long distances in Canada. However, it is good to see what other people have to go through. Have you thought about getting an interview with Dale Vince owner of Ecotricity and see how he responds to this criticism?
That really depends where in Canada you live. There are currently no SuperChargers in Manatoba, Sakatchawan or most of Northern Ontario. That's a distance of 3000 km (yes thousand) from Sudbury to Calgary with no Superchargers. Also, in Ontario, there is a huge void west of Ottawa, north of the 401 (on highways 7 an 17).
I have owned a Kia e Nero for about 3 months,and the car is great. We live in Truro Cornwall and we recently drove it to Gloucester to see our son. Getting there was fine & while there we explored the Cotswolds all on the same charge . But the the problems started when we returned to Cornwall. We called in at Gloucester services for a rapid charge top up to get us home whilst we had a meal. How stupid & naive we were to put our trust in Ecotricity electric highway. The CCS rapid charger was out of action so instead of 40-50 mins, we spent 2hrs there on the slow pump charging enough to get us to the next service station for another recharge. That one did work, but we had to call in at Cornwall Services for a "splash n dash" to get us home as we were about 5 miles short on the GOM. BAD news 2 pumps were there but both were out of action! So in the end we had to call the AA to get us low loaded home at 3.15 in the morning! A journey that normally takes us 3 hrs took us 7. I do hope Dale Vince sees this and your blog and shame him into doing something about it. I did complain to Ecotricity about this debacle and had the cost of the recharges refunded but they need to put a massive reinvestment back into Electric highway to bring them up to date.
I emailed EcoT back in 2016 about the state of their chargers and was told that they were about to be updated (ha ha). They went downhill when they removed the ability to use their RFID card. They app was never and still isn't reliable. Mind you have you ever tried to use Polar Instant. You can tell that Polar want you to use their subscription model. Which is no good for casual users. What is needed beyond a reliable infrastructure is pay by card at the charger. Yes it is time the monopoly was removed. It should have happened a couple of years ago. I don't understand why BP and Shell don't install chargers in their forecourts, or is that covered by the monopoly? We're a single car couple (retired) and have driven electric since late 2015. We find that if you plan with plans A, B and C then you can get around the country without too much hassle. We have done 14700 miles in a 22 kWh Zoe in 2 years and 18300 miles in 18 months in current Zoe 41 kWh. One of the upsides with Zoe at EcoT sites is that she can drink 22 kW at the AC posts and at 13 locations there are extra smaller posts that are 22 kW and free to use (Check out Charnock Richard and Oxford Wheatley). I would recommend an EV to anyone who has the time to plan ahead and doesn't need to rush, but as you say that shouldn't be the case. Until EV are as easy to as an ICE, recognisable signs for directions to the chargers and a mode of use that flows across all networks, it just ain't gonna happen. Just been to Intu Derby and tried to follow the signs in the car park to the (2 and 2) chargers and the signs ran out before I found them.
Thank you for this very honest video. Something that I've been saying for a year or 2 to people. EV's are expensive initially and the network just isn't there at the moment! Now, 2nd hand EV's are in the price range of most people but only those that can charge at home and do short journeys or are prepared for a lengthy wait every 100 miles to charge! I live in North Wales, can't charge at home, can only have 1 car for everything and can't afford much! Public chargers in North Wales are few and Rapids are far between, so without long range (expensive) EV's, we are confined to shorter journeys. I could charge in my local town, but why would I want to go shopping for 4 hours every week or so? And if I drive to the coast - 70 miles away for a day trip, would I be able to get a charge at my destination or at a rapid on the way back? If not, I'm stuffed! Added to this, up here, it's rather hilly everywhere and gets very cold in the winter, so limits the available range! Even the large amounts of rain mean driving on low resistance tyres can be sketchy! I desperately want an EV, for the lack of fuel costs and to "save" the environment! But until long range EV's come down in price and the network improves drastically, the only EV's I can consider are Plug-ins, driven mostly in EV mode, but only the Outlander can rapid charge (too big and 4x4!), so will have to block up a 7kw charger and face the shame! But these cars are at least £12k, so can't afford even these! So will have to get a normal hybrid, then in 2 to 3 tears, a Plugin, then followed by a half price Kona in a further 5 years! Electric driving is a long way off for me!
Hi thanks for your blog, I’ve got a Kia ENiro on order from my employer, I’m very interested in the performance of the charging network and as someone who will be doing a fair few miles I’m concerned about this situation but also not surprised. Let’s face it our motorway service stations are at best a disgrace, overpriced, out of date offerings basically they all look a little tired. Let’s hope they get things moving and get other suppliers the opportunity to provide an alternative service. I like your informative videos please keep up the good work all the best Jon
I bought an I-pace which I charge at home 99% of the time which is a good thing as the one time I drove to the lake district and back app 270 miles each way using ecotricity was an absolute nightmare. One out of twelve CCs worked and it took 14 hours to get back home. Ecotricity are aware of the problems with newer cars and Jag in particular. They should be given a time limit and if they do not put it right be stripped of their franchise Polar saved the day and worked as they should. I think the only ev I would buy if I had to do 200+ miles a day isa Tesla is a pity as the Jag is fantastic in every way
Of course I am a masochist, I have been married 42 years On a serious note I was commenting on my experience, but it seems your comment was based on nasty jealousness, you must be a Corbin supporter
Chin up Ryan, things can only get better and of course they will. My issue is still with the availability of local chargers for folk without off road parking. I have read that up to one third of car owners have to park on the street and that proportion could increase with more and more flats being developed in heavily populated areas. How can we reach out to these guys when the urban charging infrastructure is relatively sparse? In my case we have one rapid charging point about a mile way and a number of AC points dotted around. We would look to use the latter for simply topping up. My local council took over a year to respond to my request for a charging point on our street. When they replied they wanted to check if I was still interested in one! I am sure we will get there but it can test test your patience at times. Keep up the good work fella 👍🏼
I feel very much the same. I live in Texas and the charging infrastructure in my state is very disappointing. I drive a BMW i3 and getting from Amarillo to Austin is quite a struggle. Now if I had a Tesla that can get over 200 miles per charge the issue would be less. But insurance for the Tesla in Texas is rather expensive so not really in my budget. Hopefully as Electrify America expands in my area we will have more options to charge, but they are really the only reliable option I have for fast charging in most journeys. Fortunately most of my traveling is to and from work so I charge at home. Great video as always, I appreciate your view on all the wide range of subjects you take on for us.
Here in Australia we are 10 years behind England regarding a charger network. For me it's charge at home, or at only a few locations. My Leaf is only for commuting, that's all I could ever expect of it. If I need a road trip car I swap car keys with my wife, and everyone is happy. I'd love my EV to replace our ICE car, but there is no proper network here for that. I'm pretty certain I should have bought a hybrid, and I might just trade the leaf in if I can get a good deal with a used car dealer who does trade-ins. I spoke to a Camry hybrid owner a couple of nights ago, his car is silent, totally EV up to 40 kph, after which the petrol engine seamlessly switches in, and the battery gets recharged then. Sure, it still uses petrol, and I wan't to stay away from that, but he's getting 980 klms PER tank. That's pretty amazing, so he has a range of 980 ks, around 600 miles.
Here in Scotland we have charge place Scotland and it’s brilliant have been to England twice in the Leaf been let down both times lucky the campsite I was Staying at let me charge 16 bloody hours
EcoTricity has had more than enough time to follow up on their promises. They cannot afford the upgrades and putting up their prices is driving even more revenue to other providers already. Currently, the consumer is losing out as they have to plan around EcoTricity not working and the services themselves are losing revenue as EV drivers are diverting off to other locations to charge. I heard a rumour that a new service station in Leeds will ONLY have Ionity. Not sure how that's got around the Monopoly but I hope that's true.
I couldn't agree with you more, after owning an i3, also since 2015. It's great that Ecotricity did what they did, but having a CCS car, my experience has often been one of great frustration over the last 4 years. Ecotricity/Electric Highway have THE prime locations on the UK motorway network. It's well past the time when they should have at least replaced their old chargers (let alone added more units). Some locations still don't have any CCS at all, even though I was told they were addressing that 3 years ago. 2020 is going to be a big year for new EV releases, so it's even more important there is an extensive and reliable infrastructure to support the increase in new owners.
Just brought a used 30kwh leaf ( my first Ev) I currently don't have off street parking so have been using polar ( charge master) my second charge was a disaster ( local park and ride all chargers were down) but charge master helped me locate working chargers nearby, I'm yet to do a long distance drive but I'm aware it's a case of planning and very much compromise. At the moment it's for the brave/adventurous. There should be competition , this keeps prices down and hopefully makes those chargers more reliable as a consequence ( if your not performing you'll just go out of buisness).
Couldn’t agree more, I came back from Plymouth this week and needed a top up to get home, ecotricity not working at one station, had to push the envelope and got to another service station on the M5 hoping the charger worked. Fortunately it was, Dale vince has a lot to answer for, why do the authorities not allow an alternative supplier such as instavolt be allowed to install an alternative. I went to Kent recently from the Midlands and the only instavolt charger in the area worked perfectly, I even bumped into an instavolt engineer doing a maintenance call on the site to make sure they were working, I’ve never seen an ecotricity engineer ever. I don’t mind paying a bit more to instavolt as I know that without fail their chargers will be working!
Telford in the Westmidlands, not a single public charge at local town center and council haven't installed any. Supermarkets are leading the way. Shame on you #Telford
We got an all electric Ioniq 3 yrs ago and it is a terrific car to drive. We regularly make a 250 mile journey from Kent to see relatives and have got used to careful route planning beforehand. I loved Ecotricity then and - because of the lower rate at charging stations - got our domestic supply from them too. But as EVs have become more common we have had some real problems. There are not enough 50+ kWh CCS chargers. Though there may be 2 together, you can't use one if its pair charge point is occupied - and often they are out of order. And Ecotricity only seem to answer calls 9-5 weekdays. Hopeless on Sundays or Bank Holidays. So we recently switched our domestic electricity supplier to another, cheaper equally green provider and began to look at alternative EV chargers on route which were more reliable, did not have the faff of having an APP, and were in many cases cheaper. Also my wife now makes regular journeys on her own to Leicester (170 miles to visit her parents in a nursing home) and she hates the need for APPs. It can be pretty scary for a person alone if the APP isn't working, the charger is ICED or there simply aren't enough of them when you're too low to get home.This is particularly unpleasant when it is raining. She cannot put the cable in one handed, or hold an umbrella while getting out her phone and security pin etc. (Why don't they have weather protection?) So now we look for supermarkets, public car parks, hotels etc close to our route which have CCS which accept contactless cards. Although often we have to divert a few miles it is worth it. (After all, when we get to our destination, we sometimes pay more for parking than we do for the fuel , and that is simply a card or coin deal. If you've got the money, pay and go like ICE drivers do!!! ) But I disagree with the very good video re charge point inadequacy on one main point. ALL charge points should be 50 kWh minimum. I only use public chargers when I am trying to get somewhere. Obvious I know, but we charge up 90% of times at home. Who wants to leave their car all night on a 7Kwh charger? We don't want to go to a supermarket charger to find that it is occupied by a family who have gone out shopping for the day. No idea when it will be free. Usually these low energy chargers are just lip service by Local authorities and others pretending to be 'green'.
The peak District is the most visited national park in the UK only second to mount Fuji in visitations. However don't bother going in a ev as the charge network is appalling.
Wrote my first comment before I got to the end of your video - sorry! You asked if Ecotricity should be given more time to sort themselves out or not. Definitely NOT. I now don't use motorway services which is lost revenue to the site operator because I can't be bothered to see if Ecotricity is working or has been upgraded yet (very unlikely). They are the most appalling advert for NOT buying an EV, unless it's a Leaf. They have been making excuses for over a year, so no, they've used up my patience and that of many others. Give the contract to a more modern operator who has the financial clout to do the job professionally. There should be multiple banks of chargers, not 1 or 2. 8 or 10 at least. Who queues for petrol or diesel? Maybe 3 or 4 minutes for the pump to clear, but 30-40 minutes? I don't think so! It should all look so much different but the end of 2020, given the plans of the competitors bit that seems a long way off. That's why I bought a Kona so I could do 95% of charging at home, with the long range making this a reality.
Ecotricity lost my custom when they began charging for the time you were connected rather than per kilowatt - it's illegal to do that to a domestic consumer but the legislation pre-dates mass produced electric vehicles and so they exploited the loophole - I don't want to be a customer of a company that has such little regard for those that need to use it.
They were forced to change from charging per 30 minutes to so much per kilowatt after the intervention of the Office of Fair Trading but then they added a “Connection Charge” on top. I haven’t used them for years as a result - I believe that they currently charge 35p per kWh, I understand that they need to recoup the original costs of setting up the network but Podpoint have installed two new rapid chargers in my area and they only charge 23p per kWh! Clearly Ecotricity either has an unsustainable commercial model or it is profiteering - whichever is the case, it is not surprising that very few use their network - it is cheaper to burn petrol!
Cgarging by time on a rapid is a good thing, as it discourages ill-informed people hogging chargers while only drawing a few kW to get the last 20% of charge, which would be no faster than an AC charger.
I'm shocked but not surprised at your video comment. And I'm 1,000% with you on this opinion. Even though I rarely use Rapid chargers (lucky me huh?). But having just last week come to CCS I'm now living in fear of the Ecotricity experience. And it really should not be that way at all. Who fears pulling in to a petrol station, that the pumps won't work on their car? So with a CCS cart I now strategize to not even bother with service stations that do not have other networks present. But its not advice that those I speak with about EV are willing to accept. And so EV remains in the Motorway doldrums. At least until the Ecotricity stranglehold can be broken or they up their game significantly.
As a newbie to EV ownership, I have not had to rely to much on the rapid charger network. I have used the 'fast' free charger in Marlands car park, Southampton. which didn't seem to give as much charge as expected for my Leaf whilst shopping for 3 hours, so I used the Ecotricity Rownhams rapid charger successfully to make sure i got back to East Sussex on a very rainy day, I found out that despite having more than 30 miles on the GoM extra I made it home with only 8 miles extra, big lesson learnt on very wet roads and how much drag it causes. Yes Ecotricity have the monopoly with service station chargers, will there be an option to bring in other companies? I doubt it as there isn't a choice of different companies for fossil fuels, hence why services charge so much more. However I do notice though if you make a small diversion off the motorways then there is a choice of other companies you can use to charge your car as well as other fossil stations to buy cheaper fuel. For instance, while I travel around in a company van for work I notice 2 BP garages opposite each other on a major A road and their fuel prices are at least 6p higher than average per litre. A small detour still roughly travelling in the right direction will save that 6p per litre. I guess it all depends if you are on a mission to get somewhere. Personally I'd like to think I would plan to leave a lot earlier and maybe stop somewhere where hopefully there's a nice town you can visit before or after you've rapid charged for decent pub food and also to let the battery cool down, bloody rapid-gate.. Edit: Not saying you didn't leave enough time to make it home for your daughters birthday.. Just me planning my next trip to Hereford
That model is completely anti-competitive, I'm amazed there hasn't been class action lawsuits yet or even thought of, but even other charging providers taking them on in the courts. The entire motorway service stations need to be open to all not one provider. Freedom of choice. You have so many choices and where I live currently there is only 2 rapid chargers, one 70km and the other over 200km away from where I live, with only one with a 7kW backup there is more in planning but most of them will be single chargers but at least no lock in contracts for one provider every site multiple providers could setup. Totally agree on model though rapid/fast chargers really need to be on major through ways not in city centres necessarily. Places where you are there a while 22kW or 7kW chargers are needed as you stated. Love your channel every since I subscribed many moons ago now. Keep up the honesty what I like to see. :)
I am an ecotricity customer so I get the cheaper rate. As yet I have been quite satisfied with the service, although most of my charging is done at home. My reason for using ecotricity is that they only use renewable energy. I would give them time to upgrade their charging stations because it is difficult making a profit in the early stages and I'd want to see the cost / expenditure / investment and return paperwork before making a judgement. Competition would be healthy, but it has to be on a level playing field. I have had considerably more trouble trying to use PodPoint, Polar and other suppliers. Chargeplace being a reliable exception on the few times I have used it.
Now it’s 2020. When was this recorded? I got an EV few days ago, and your video is spot on! The Govt needs to urgently allow all companies to compete. Another useful thing to know is that Elderly or others with cardiac Pace maker and rhythm problems have to be careful! Found in their manual! Never thought about it.
Inverclyde only 2 ageing rapid chargers have been out of order for over 20 days now, I reported them as soon as I found out to the charging operators. Don’t have home for my leaf so reliant on public chargers. If only I lived in Dundee where the council are more encouraging of different companies like own free EV hubs plus Fastned coming there soon too 😢 Good video 👍🏻
Subscribed because I have a Honda e on order. The range is not great, but neither is my normal usage (I’m retired) and also use my TREK ebike for many local journeys. However I am very interested in a) Reliability of Rapid Charger network and b) Growth of Network/no.s of charge points, esp. CCS. Our local Morrisons in Wincanton recently added 4 bays with GeniePoint chargers. Great. Today 3 were in use when I arrived. So it seems demand is already as great as supply. 2 BEV & 1 PHEV
2 Ecotricity Rapid chargers at Birchanger services on M11, the only rapids within 100 square miles and near a major airport!! One of the Ecotricity chargers is on free vend almost all of the time and is in constant use by cab drivers.I have seen screaming arguments at this site with EV drivers. The other rapid is always broken and very unreliable, it's just totally crap!! I hate going to these services to top up now, and breathe a sigh of relief if there is a charger free, which is getting rarer by the day, an absolute joke!!
I’m very lucky that my only ‘out of range’ long journey in my Zoe has Milton Keynes on route. Just off the M1 is the excellent facility at MK Coachway - 10 polar rapids and some ionity units. Only ever seen one other person charging at the same time. More of these type of facilities are needed ASAP.
I have a 7kW (Zappi) charger at home and my wife has a 7kW charger at work and for us with a 140(w) to 160(s) ranged e-Golf that satisfies 95%+ of our charging needs. When we do longer drives I have used Ecotricity motorway chargers but as you point out they can not be relied on so we always plan an alternative which usually involves a short diversion from our route. I think that you are right that it is now time to open up the Service station chargers to other companies but I don't think these deficiencies should stop you recommending a move to an EV as they are not insurmountable problems with a little planning ahead.
Ryan . Good discussion. In the 4 years I have had an EV . There has been massive improvement . However . EH have not kept pace and now the woeful inadequacy of their monopoly is become transparent and I think is now holding back adoption. There are also areas of the UK still vastly underdeveloped . 1. Thing that is welcome is the broadening amount of chargers taking contactless . Also the recent roaming deal between nextcharge Shell/newmotion ionity intavolt engenie meant I can now use my new motion fob to access with ease instead of messing with multiple apps ..
I agree entirely; I could not recommend an EV to my elderly neighbours due to public chargers being unreliable. DfT and BEIS need to modernise the Regulation of Motorway Services to require at least 12 DC chargers from 3 competing companies which meet a minimum specification. The minimum charging speed should be reviewed at least annually. The regulations should require a minimum reliability in order to qualify as a supplier.
It is unfortunate for competition that Ecotricity have a monopoly. However, if we look back to 2011 there was probably not a lot of people who thought EVs would catch on so they grabbed the monopoly and we are where we are. As a Leaf owner I’ve never had a problem with Ecotricity. Of course Nissan were instrumental in the Electric Highway being installed so Leafs work fine. Maybe if the manufacturers putting CCS in their vehicles want reliable motorway charging then they should work with Ecotricity and maybe contribute to the cost of the network. The Tesla Superchargers are a brilliant network paid for by the manufacturer.
You are spot on again Ryan. I’ve been driving my EV for over 2 years to date and the infrastructure has got better and is more available. I’d like to see more slow chargers (7kw) at public areas (cinemas, shopping) Motorway service stations I have previously relied out for comfort breaks. Now with the lack of availability and reliability of Electric a Highway service stations are not getting my business as I go elsewhere. Shame as I started my EV transition like you. BP Chargemaster will get there soon. Hoping Wales gets more rapid chargers in central parts like Snowdonia.
Good video, thanks, stopped at fleet services on the m3 a few weeks ago and noted that ecotricity were in the process of installing 15 new stations, I wasn’t buying an EV then, but I’m about to put a deposit down now. Fully agree that systems need to be better and more numerous. How many people are contacting companies like supermarkets to install a few. The more attention we bring the quicker I hope the situation improves. Keep up the good vids
Completely agree with all you said. There is hope that petrol station forecourts at service areas will install chargers. I can only recommend an EV as a second car to friends and family. My Soul is only 30kwh, I don't have the flexibility to search out chargers if my chosen one is broken. Also if there is a queue for a charger it extends my journey significantly
This! Just had to give a bad review to the UK infrastructure, and unfortunately, Ecotricity, during the recent national survey, I have leaf as a second car, and on the odd occasions I’ve had to do motorway miles, I’ve encountered broken infrastructure, no phone signal, so can’t use the app, or tethered to a particular network that you have to apply for a RFID tag for. I feel your pain. I’d love to know what Ecotricity is really up to. I don’t believe it’s just complacency.
Frustrating thing for me is people not using the charging notification apps, like Plugshare....so many times I've gone to my main local rapid point and its in use by another car who hasn't bothered to check in. Every time I look at Plugshare I'm pretty much the only person updating on it. Another big problem is those that are installed at a car park that has parking fees associated too. Sure....this was fine back when the charging was free....but now those free days are over, with the high charging price on top of a high parking fee, it can work out more than being in an ICE. My last moan.....car parks with parking eyes that have short maximum stays......all great in theory...til you have to queue to get to a charger, when then may have no time to actually charge!!! It needs an overhaul
I guess I'm lucky that I'm in Scotland so we have hardly any ecotricity units to worry about. Yesterday I did 260 miles driving to Aberdeen and back. Used chargeplace Scotland and engenie chargers and had not a single issue
I aspire to have dc fast non-proprietary charging stations with 5 charge points each within 2 miles of each other where I live. Its not happening! More like public charge point austerity deprivation in a desert with an occasional charge point oasis here and there. According to PlugShare, a dealership put one public 24-KW DC fast charging css station between two service bay doors . But.... After hours entry may be complicated. It looks as if you can enter 24/7 from eastbound 20th Street, using the dealership's second entrance (which is just BEFORE the Evergreen/Safeway/Staples driveway!) and following signs to the Service Department. You may also be able to enter from northbound 136th Place (traversing the Caspian Restaurant parking lot and entering through an unmarked driveway at the southwest end of the dealership). No problem on a dark rainy night.
Not negative at all. Your take on things seems accurate. I drive a PHEV so public charging is not a necessity and I have no experience of Ecotricity. Priority From my perspective goes to EV’s. However I must say that when I got the PHEV 3 years ago it was with a view to transitioning to an EV.However my experience of public charging has caused me to think again. I agree - the infrastructure is fragile and customer support severely limited. More often than not the chargers I have tried have not worked. This is particularly true here in the North East and CYC dependence and I understand they were once something of a pioneer in EV facilities. Many of the units have been in a state of disrepair for months. Northumberland has taken some steps to replace existing units with Polar, PodPoint and Hubsta now featuring. However there are currently not enough of them either in this region or in other parts of the UK
Yes it is rubbish, here is an example... Chargeplace Scotland fanfaye on Facebook. They installed one charger in a station. ONE! We need rows of them even now. Most rapids are installed in busy sports centres and council premises or opposite takeaways. Guess what... always generally ICE'd.
Here in Portland OR, US the public charging is sadly short of needs, I regularly see out of service chargers. I completely agree that one or two chargers at a location is not enough, 4 should be a minimum, but 8+ ala Tesla is better. Yes, L2 at shops and restaurants, L3 on main roads, but also L1 at workplaces, park and rides, airports, stadiums, movie theaters, museums etc. Price is a problem too, free stations exist, but are rarer and often taken, and if you do the math almost all pay chargers here cost MORE PER MILE THAN GAS. Sometimes up to 4x. I'm happy to pay a reasonable rate for juice, but reasonable must be less than fossil fuel, by law if necessary.
At home I pay 1/6th the cost per mile than gas using time of use electricity. I also use a plugin hybrid averaging 75% electric to avoid the range anxiety issue. If I do run out of juice I can still get home without drama and more fuel efficiently than in an all gas version.
I’m a fan of your films Ryan and admire your positivity. I think this is your best post yet. The infrastructure is the thing that prevents me from going EV. I’ve got as far as a hybrid, and my replacement car is probably going to be another one, because the charging infrastructure isn’t happening quickly enough. I live in Cornwall and have sons at university in two different parts of the country. If we have to travel to go see either I don’t want to be setting out spreadsheets planning charge points en route to then find they don’t work. I did St Austell to Bath and back in one evening (very late return I grant you) in my hybrid yesterday with one top up. I could not have contemplated the same journey in an EV, becaus I would have had to book the next day off work “just in case” I couldn’t get a charge on the way home. Incidentally, we stopped on the M5 on the way up and initially I saw a Leaf and an I 3 at two Ecotricity charge points. The I 3 trying two points that weren’t working before having to wait for the Leaf to finish to get a charge. It’s not happening quickly enough. Keep up the great work BTW.
andy bliss thank you very much and it sounds as if you have the right car at the moment. Unless you have £40k to spend on an EV which can cover 250+ miles on a charge you need to rely on the infrastructure. Arguably its there but unfortunately many chargers are unreliable. Thankfully there seems to be a big push at the moment and new ones are popping up all over the place 😁👍
Until full service charging networks are well established, PHEV s that extend their range are a great concept. The Outlander, Volt, and a couple others. Anything with a small engine to recharge you as you drive, and when you park in a place that doesn't have a good charger.
It’s time the electric highway, either sorted their charging infrastructure or loose their monopoly. It’s not good enough for them to sit on their laurels.. I believe electric highway are holding back the uptake of EVs. and should never have been given the monopoly of all the UK motorways, Indeed it tantamount to restrictive practice as there is no alternative and that’s not good for competition. I don’t suppose it will get me anywhere but I will take this up will my local conservative MP, As I too drive an EV, a Kona, and I’ve had problems charging at the electric highway, in fact there rubbish.
Great video on a thorny topic - well said that man Take a look at Norway - streets ahead of the UK - as usual. In the USA there is a program being rolled out where Gas Stations are installing Chargers (Wawa - and Circle K {Shell} to name a few) What the Government needs to do, is deregulate instead of happily dishing out monopolies. Then and only then will only the best providers survive. The EV market is here to stay - there will be more and more Cars using the infrastructure. What also needs to be standardised is the Plugs / Chargers - why not once and for all have a unified standard - blow me - there isn't even an agreed standard for Mobile phone chargers - let alone Car plugs-ins - now there's a debate!!!
I agree, there needs to be improvements - everywhere. But - do you remember how thrilled many of us were to be able to make a call or send text messages from a flip phone? Or take and share pictures on a Blackberry? Now, if it isn't ultra-fast, ultra-sleek, user-intuitive and pretty much figured out automatically for us at a touch of our fingerprint - we won't accept it. But that's not a criticism, it's an observation of human nature. And in reality, our desire for bigger-better-faster-more has helped drive innovation. As for Ecotricity, (and here in Canada, companies like ChargePoint, Flo, and Sun Country), they should take a long, detailed look at BlackBerry...and be reminded of what happened to the biggest smartphone company in the world when they didn't invest and innovate as fast as Apple, Samsung, and Huawei.
When you own a monopoly then you can offer crap service. When you have to compete you are kept on your toes.
Tell that to remainers lol
@@shoelessjoe428 Dutch model for gas stations is to auction off the consessions for motorway gas stations to the highest bidder for a 5 or 10 year period, and set strict requirements for what services are to be offered.
Fail to meet and exceed that, you're not allowed to bid on a renewal.
And that's for each location separate.
Never understood why then for EV chargers they gave a nationwide monopoly to a single provider. Unless of course that provider (FastNed) has strong political connections...
@@jwenting From the customer's point of view its not really the big highway service area sites that are critical for success with a charging network. Those are just going to happen, because they can make money, and its easy to have chargers from multiple networks at those locations. What matters more for success from the customer's point of view is having actual working chargers in more remote spots, and that's where charging support is really weak right now. You might only have one charger in a large area, there's a good chance it will be broken, and the web sites which try to track that kind of thing are weak. If you want to scan for which chargers are functional and not busy at this moment, before heading to they only one you can find in range of your remaining charge, good luck when you get there.
Gas stations are entirely interchangeable. Few people consistently buy from the same chain. Chargers are conceptually interchangeable, but right now they are not. You need an account with each provider, or the experience at the charger is expensive, painful or both. Gas stations almost always have fuel. When diesel cars were rare in the UK, there were lots of diesel vans and trucks. So, every service station had diesel, and the diesel car market could easily grow. You often had to fill your expensive diesel Mercedes in a spot that looked like something from a Mad Max movie, but there were plenty of them around. Chargers are thinly spread, break a lot, and maintenance is weak. I can't see this changing much until electric cars are commonplace.
@@coppice2778 nice theory, but as long as governments grant monopolies to single providers to provide fast charging networks along the motorways, and don't provide those companies incentives to actually build the charging stations (and often don't even grant the construction permits...) it's not going to happen.
That's the situation in several countries right now, including the Netherlands where I live.
Single company has a monopoly, government announces bit plan to have fast chargers every 50km by 2025, but they're not setting aside the roadside land to build the charging stations (most of which would have to be repurposed from existing highway stops in a crowded country like the Netherlands, or confiscated from farmers or industrial estates along the highways).
So progress towards that goal has ground to a halt with less than a quarter of the needed infrastructure built, and what's there isn't upgraded to keep up with changing technology (most of it is still 50KW for example, though some new stations offer 150KW on part of their chargers). Most locations that are constructed also only have 2-3 CCS chargers, plus 1-2 AC chargers...
And as there's no competition, there's no incentive to improve.
Absolutley! Any monopoly is inveriably bad news for customer. You only have to think back to the old days of B.T and their "wonderful" service.
In the nine months since owning my Jaguar IPace I've only needed to charge on a motorway twice and both times Ecotricity charge points weren't working. The company only provide 50kw of charging and these are unreliable. In my opinion their monopoly position should be taken away from them immediately and opened up to competition. Shame on you Ecotricity.
Yep someone like tesla who know what they're doing
Ecotricity are a disgrace and an embarrassment to the EV industry. Unless you are considering a Tesla, or only using your EV locally..... Don't bother. The EV revolution in the UK is a JOKE, just like Brexit and every other government hair-brained scheme which are designed to get votes and bolster the ego's of politicians.
An example locally, is that there are NO government funded charging stations. There is only ONE charging station located at an hotel, meanwhile our local council planning committee has just deliberated over, and granted permission for Sainbsburys to demolish a perfectly good building to build a £multimillion new one, incorporating a large petrol station ( fossil fuels only), NO hint of any commitment at all to the government's pledge of phasing out ICE vehicles and promoting the escalation of EV's. the biggest joke of the councils decision to permit this development is that there are already 2 large petrol stations ( BP & Tesco) within 50 yards.....CRAZY! I sent an email to our local MP Damien Moore and to the local council planning dept for comment, to date, after 6 months, I have yet to receive any response from either.
BTW, I own an EV.
David doesn’t matter if you think the government grants are good enough they are available but it’s down to local councils to apply for and make use of them.
Not a fan of ecotricty at all. Waste of space and time, what is the point of a fuel station if it's hit or miss if it's working or not. The attitude of staff when called was a bad experience and all they were interested in was trying to get me on their expensive supply company. This is said from experience with needing them to charge our Leaf on a longer journey. The Tesla network.. yes the cars are out of most normal people purse but the network is the way forward. Enjoy your channel. Keep it up.
@knowledge share That's all well and good, but when your nearest Superchargers are a two hour round trip away from the city in which you live (unless you travel late at night), plus charging time, they're about as useful as soup in a basket.
Best EV video I have seen in a long time, I've experienced all the issues you highlighted.
Electric Highway update or move over.
One type of charger would help
I now totally avoid Ecotricity’s EH. Had several bad experiences with them and my Kona. Dale Vince should be told he has lost the monopoly ASAP and let multiple other networks into each Service area on our motorways.
Several points on this video that would require its own video.
Let me tell you a story about my wife's parents in the '80s.
They bought a new car and they always traveled from their home to their grandparents.
The previous car, they knew, required a stop at a certain point (the last gas station on the road) otherwise they wouldn't make it. With the new car, they just didn't know and at the first try, they agreed to keep going and see what would happen. Of course, they couldn't make it, they almost reached the border of the city. My father in law had to get a ride to the city, buy gas, bring it back and drive to the city's gas station. They learned how much they could push the car, where they need to stop and how much the trip would cost.
I believe people would do the same with EV's. They would test it, stretch it out, figure how to be on the safe side and then, rely on the charging stations. If the station can't charge, it would be the same as my in-laws stopping at the last gas station and not having fuel. They would have to improvise.
We will hear a lot of stories like yours and my in-laws. We will learn and demand better services.
Right now EV owners are just like the first Model T owners, nowhere to fuel, had to think where to put gas... Everyone was laughing at them until they were the majority and fuel was everywhere, to the point you could pick and choose to whom your money would go. They were then the pioneers.
Patience my friend, you are part of an EVolution in humanity. The next generation will tell stories about us and imagine how hard it was. We are suffering now to give them a better place. We are the pioneers.
Congrats to your daughter. Cheers.
Bruges Manioracci thank you and in one story you have summed up this video. Funny how we can find the answers to the future in the past 😁👍
@@EVOpinion Look at the Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894, and a visionary called Henry Ford.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_horse_manure_crisis_of_1894
See any similarities with where we are today?
@Bruges Manioracci Valid view but that's not the point here really. The question is basically "are electric vehicles ready for mainstream?"
2019 is a far cry from the Model T era (true pioneers). The electricity grid has been around for donkeys' years. It isn't "new technology". The fact is that the current [sic] infrastructure is simply not good enough for people who will want to do longer trips. Here in Aus it's abysmal, at least for the time being. Within city limits there is absolutely no problem, of course.
Tesla is in a better state since they have a fair headstart and kudos to them. But this rush to push EVs to market is too much too early. Just my opinion. 👍
Taking a petrol can to get a few litres so you can make it to the petrol station is all very well, but it's not a viable option for a flat EV, is it?
@@nsw72 That was the point I was making, that in the days of the Model T Ford, fuel was an issue as they didn't have the extensive infrastructure that we have today, and charging stations are at the same stage of early deployment.
There should be a regulator and compensation scheme overseeing these networks
Agreed. This is what happens when governments leave the service providers to make their own rules.
In theory there is, CMA and OFGEM
Why use a regulator and more tax money when competition will do the job twice as well?
@@jasonlittle6542 long term when agree. Short term it doesn't seem to be working.
I live in the westernmost part of France (Finistere), between where I live and St. Malo is about 219 km. In that journey I pass 200 charging stations within 1 km of my route. Every department in Brittany has installed two charging points in nearly every town. E.G in my town, pop 3,500 there are two charging points of 22kwh. The difference is that in the UK, they leave it to the market, which in many sectors does not deliver. Infrastructure needs to be centrally planned, which is why in the UK the govmnt established the national grid and the postal service as well as the telephone service. Even now, they are having to intervene with public cash to ensure universal broadband. In my little town, I have 18 mbs, which is about to be upgraded. The problem, like so many others in the UK, stem from the UK (well England really) going down the path following St Margaret of the Church of Thatcherology. A path that has inexorably led to the idiocy of Brexit.
Tony Powell, well described.
It also makes me think, why in the video it is been talked about a world that is UK and America. Please have a look to your close partners, the other countries in Europe. They do come up with a lot of intelligent solutions. Why not get some more information from here?
Spot on! But then you hear Labour voters claiming that they "can't vote Corbyn because he is weak etc." - bollocks I say, if I could, I would vote Corbyn - best man out there. Funny also that having lived here as Austrian since 2002, worked and paid taxes throughout, I am only allowed to vote in local elections. I've got 2 kids who were born and go to school here yet I can't vote national...
Ruediger Preiss, why should you not vote? Because you have had additional experience as someone who also lived abroad? Then there is something wrong with the electoral system in UK. I have also heard that as a UK Citizen you are not allowed to vote if you have lived abroad for a couple of years. I wonder why this is the way it is? It gives people with more experience less to say. Ok, this was completely Off Topic, sorry 😐
The prices are too high at some of the chargers, and only having one in a place is nuts. Where would we be if each petrol station only had one pump?
ed h the air quality would be greatly improved. The city centre would be quieter.
There would be more rapid charger and 7kw points all over the place, just as in Norway.
ed h more a lack of investment by councils and companies.
If they build them people will come
I have no issues paying a higher price for convenience but I expect them to be available and working.
@@SirHackaL0t. why should councils put in charging points? councils dont put in fuel stations
J L They put in roads, kerbs, traffic lights, so why not chargers? They do own the roads and pavements.
It just shows how dated Ecotricity is. In 2011 CCS was relatively new, and few EVs about so Dale Vince didn't install it. He has now moved on to other interests and lost interest in the electric highway. It is time for Ecotricity to go, if necessary the issue needs to be forced to get other companies in. The service stations can't be happy losing revenue everyone an EV driver has to go elsewhere. I am looking to stretch myself financially to get a longer range EV to avoid having to use public rapids. Once Ecotricity goes, access to service station customers will be a viable business model for companies to install viable charging infrastructure. I have seen comments from EV owners going back to ICE due to Ecotricity!
I hope a company like Podpoint take it over - they’re installing new rapid chargers and only charging 23p per kWh so their commercial model clearly works - oh, their chargers are more reliable too!
Very honest video from somebody who is an advocate of EVs. I sometimes think we need to go back to basics. What sort of network do we need that can, exactly, replicate the refueling of an ICE car. We are light years away from that. The goodwill towards EVs is there but people will not compromise. They don't want apps (whose bloody idea was that anyway) they want contactless or apple pay (or the android equivalent). They want to be certain, absolutely certain, that they can get a charge anytime anyplace. It might need the government to intervene as the market is failing here.
It’s about time the government steps in with a nice legislation to break this monopoly
The government are the ones who grant the monopoly...
Same in the Netherlands where FastNed have a monopoly and as a result don't care about installing any more charging stations than they already have except at a snail's pace, and most of those only have 2 50KW rapid chargers and 2 AC chargers.
Exactly. You are about to have the opportunity to vote. Choose the party which promises to sort out charging.
EH Give them a three month warning to upgrade these old chargers if they so no then they have defaulted on the contract of supply then open each motorway site to any other suppliers with a warning if they consistently fail it is take them out and give another the chance to replace the position. By the way a few weeks ago I did a 445 mile road trip to the south west of england and used the EH chargers all the way down M4 & M5 all worked fine and that was having worked out an option charge point if any had failed to work. This trip was in a 24kWh Leaf it was a lot of fun and no stress.
I got stranded because of Ecotricity chargers not working (30kWh leaf)
In what way is ANY Nissan 'a lot of fun'?
@@willswomble7274 Nissan gtr looks fun. Or what about a 350z.
And off to count you go, they put in the capital and want and will get the return most likely by forcing a buy out or settlement
The CPS network in scotland is also patchy re reliability on Rapids, they blame comms (02 etc) they blame CPS back office systems , or its the manufacturers fault on the unit , or its the local council not taking out a maintance contract with the manufacturer of the rapid , everyone 'pass's the buck ' and round and round it goes !
We're leaning on CPS and Transport for Scotland, to address these issues ASAP !
When i take my leaf south from orkney , i shouldn't be crossing my fingers that a rapid works , or breath a sigh of relief that i get a charge , it's 2019 ! Since 2011 evs have been on the road , in 8 years we still have a network that's not 100% reliable !
Great video , you make good points , that IS holding folk back from getting into evs who want to do longer trips.
Let's look at Norway , 60% of all new car registered are EVs , their networks must be better otherwise we wouldnt see such a great take up !
Rant over !!
As an owner of a Tesla Model 3 in Florida, I have made two cross-country trips this year, once to the US west coast and later to Utah and return, driving nearly 20K miles total. The Tesla charging network is extremely good, well-spaced and reliable. There are regions where Tesla should install additional Supercharger stations, such as in southwestern Colorado, but since I was able to access (free) L2 chargers, there were no problems making the trip. I use ABetterRoutePlanner.com to preplan my trip and let the car confirm each leg of the route.
For future EV buyers who cannot afford a new Tesla, I would urge them to consider a good used Tesla rather than giving up and wasting more money on an ICE vehicle.
Ecotricity need to be given a deadline or they are out. I applaud them for initially pushing us forward to this point but sadly I don't believe they have the resource or backing to take it to the next step.
I can see there possibly being another option and you touched on it in your video Ryan. An existing infrastructure that is already built and already has the highest standard of chargers. Tesla, bare with me.
They have been very open to the possibility of other car companies using their network but so far, none have taken them up. With government backing we could:
1. insist the manufacturing standard of CCS is used, which most vehicles seem to be going over to anyway.
2. force other car companies to do a deal with Tesla as a proviso to having the privilege of selling their cars to this country.
What do you think, too draconian?
You're absolutely spot-on. It was the lack of chargers in our area (an East Midland city), coupled with no obvious way of charging at home, which stopped us from buying a new EV last time we needed to replace our car. Public charging is beginning to improve here, but CCS chargers are still scarce, and our local authority seems to think that 7 kW chargers are fast, and are therefore a good option. Councillors often don't seem to live in the real world.
There's almost no point in having 7kW, sometimes even 3kW chargers, and then having a 2 hour maximum stay limit, or a high parking fee for long stay parking, in a car park. But that’s what happens, all too often.
I would give them 6 moths to a year to demonstrate that they are significantly improving their Network, in recognition of their initial investment, and if this doesn't happen then their monopoly should be ended and the sites opened up to other operators.........
Long Term Monopolies are no good for consumers as history shows and with such a fundamentally important service to the widespread adoption of EV's across the country I feel the Monopoly should be ended within 2 years maximum irrespective...........we dont buy diesel or petrol from one supplier on Motorways and the same has to happen with energy supplies for EV's
What a fantastic to-the-point video. I've owned my Leaf for 18 months now, and with all my journeys being a 35 mile round commute with charging at home, its an ideal car for me. This week, I needed to do a much longer trip from Southampton to Blackpool and the Ecotricity chargers around and north of Birmingham were all showing issues on Zapmap. To be safe, I did the trip in an ICE car. Shame on Ecotricity for their monopoly and poor service; the sooner they step back and allow competitors to put rapids in the motorway service stations the better. As a side note... go one further and bin all the Apps and go to contactless debit card payments! Thank you for the video EV Opinion, it's very much appreciated!
Excellent honest review as always.👍🏼
I could not agree more with you. I do not believe Ecotricity have the means to put in the required number of motorway chargers and so service stations should be opened up to other providers. I avoid any apps (other than Ecotricity) and just love contactless payment fast chargers like; Shell, Instavolt, Polar Instant / BP. They have to be the way to go. Would love to see a bank of fast chargers from different providers at every service station. To move forward it has to be; reliable, available and simple. Thanks for a great UA-cam channel.
I have had a Tesla for 4 years, I live in France. Initially there were very few chargers but tesla had recognized they would have to make the investment, which they did. The French government required the electricity company to install chargers in every village and town. Which they did. For a year I went round looking for these chargers trying to be the first to use them. Great fun, but for my tesla, completely useless, why pay for a very slow charge when I could use free tesla chargers. Then I drove to Sweden and back, about 5000 miles, just to see what problems I might have. Absolutely no problems all the way. The point I would make is Tesla made a huge investment in infrastructure, no other manufacturer has made a similar investment yet. Tesla even offered to make their network available to any other manufacture if they would make a similar investment. No one took them up on the offer. It was all, how do we destroy Tesla. They used different connectors and charging systems just to try and slow down Tesla. My reaction to your problem is to be very unkind and say, serves you right for choosing a Kona, but I know that’s wrong of me. But you see how inter company rivalry just has the effect of slowing us all down. For example, why does each charging network need their own credit card or phone app? What’s wrong with using my MasterCard or Visa, one day that will no doubt be possible, but generally in Europe not yet. Meanwhile Tesla moves ahead of every one. I have told Elon that I will drive from France to his factory in shanghai along the Silk Road as soon as he installs all the chargers along the way. His reply, .....soon!
You have summed up perfectly the main barrier to adoption of EV's. Too many apps, too many broken/unreliable charging stations. Why can't they just all agree to use contactless payment? Its a total mess. Tesla is the company who have this sorted out, which is why owning a Tesla is such an easy choice. I have a Model 3 so while I don't have free supercharging, for the occasional use I make of the network, it works flawlessly and is just charged to my account. I can charge at home and at work, but imagine living in a big city where you don't have your own charger, and you have to depend on a public charger? What a nightmare scenario that would be! Great video, and you have hit the nail on the head!
As a new EV owner I am surprised how poor the public charging network currently is. If the UK Government is serious about going green in the not so distant future then a lot has to be done very soon. EV great for local runaround, but long distance driving is where the problems are found. Tesla are showing the way, but we can't all afford one of them, nor should we have to in order to get a satisfactory experience.
I read that BP are rolling out chargers at service stations where they already have a forecourt
Well done for raising awareness of this problem. If the next government is serious about reducing the UK’s carbon emissions, it needs to step in and fund the charging infrastructure. Great video as always. 👍
I was about to buy an MG ZS EV. I looked at the WLTP range with a Combined mileage of 163 miles. This car would have suited me, BUT I halted the plan because of the poor infrastructure on the east coast of Yorkshire. Until resorts massively increase the number of charging options, then people with electric cars are not going to visit them. I bought another ICE car with the hope that the infrastructure will be much better in 2 years time. Your video just confirmed that, for now, my decision to hold off was correct. I really enjoy your videos. Thank you for them.
Wales is a dead zone to Ev's. Sad because it used to have many visits from but not any more.
I’m sorry that EVs don’t work for you yet but the positive thing is the future does look bright 😁👍
I agree the infrastructure is not in place yet. That is why I have decided to keep my plug in hybrid a few more years. I only charge at home and all my local journeys are on electric and revert to petrol on long journeys. I think it is the best of both worlds at the moment.
More like 120-130 miles, pretty crap really....
I was going to buy a BMW i3 been iffing and butting for a year just about but I am not going to bother, live in Doncaster area South Yorkshire and public charging is dire in Doncaster it's a big area I'm 12 mile from Doncaster centre and near me upto Doncaster centre where I drive there are maybe 6 places to charge half being slow ones and everyone I go to these places I look and nearly always iced. Not enough charging stations at all hell our shopping centre does not even have any at all lol
I'm getting a new A-class instead more bang for my buck also and that is going against a used i3 lol
Totally agree with this. It’s only going to get worse as more EVs on the road will lead to charger congestion. You’re right we need 6 chargers in banks on trunk roads that we can be reasonably sure of. Tesla were very astute in their charger network rollout. My next car will be a PHEV or a Tesla - the stress level of a pure EV is just not worth it!
I approach longer journeys in my 22kWh Zoe as an adventure, just like motoring in the Edwardian era. I an very familiar with the characteristics of my car, and I always have backup plans for en-route charging. Arriving at my destination, with enough charge to live for another day, is a victory:-). When I change to a longer range EV, I think it will just feel too easy.
This does mean that I keep a keen eye on where the chargers are on my routes. What I notice, looking at the apps for the various individual networks, is that there are various chargers on networks like Shell Recharge and Polar springing up that are not listed on Zap Map and PlugShare yet. So it pays to check those as well, in case you are missing some useful options.
I do agree that many of the EH chargers are ageing, not maintained properly, and some of their replacements are questionable - just look at Oxford service if you want an example of that. And their CCS chargining is woeful. Their rubbish CCS is one key reason why I would not consider buying a CCS car like the Ionic instead of the Zoe last year. EH should not have a monopoly on the motorway services network any more.
Tim Schneider I’m so the same thank god it’s rare enough to still be fun
And that's why I drive a Tesla Model 3. I have enough range to not require public charging. I use destination chargers only for the novelty, plus they are free and I get a good parking spot. When on longer trips I use superchargers which are in good locations, easy to use, always work, and value for money. If I had a Nissan LEAF I'd only charge it at home and use as a second car for school runs and local shopping.
You are on point with this one. Similar problems exist in the US. Our Tesla model S travels like a hamp. Went MD to FL and regularly drew down to 2 or 5 percent (so we could charge faster upon arrival) went flawlessly. That was our third 1600+ mile round trip to FL. 2013 model S 85
What on Earth is a 'hamp'?
Very worrying!...I am coming to the UK in my e-Niro next month. I thought the Ionity networks were going on the motorway services over there.. They seem to be getting on to the autoroute service stations over here in France, although up until recently most Rapid DC chargers were a km or 2 off the main autoroutes. I wondered if Total and other oil companies had been keeping them off but I saw a row of 5 new Ionity chargers on the A10 north of Tours a few months back so things are improving.. Do ‘Electric Highway’ really have a monopoly on UK service stations? The UK is supposed to be an exemplar of free market competition while in France we have ‘le dirigisme’..Sorry, bit of a political dig there...I am amazed at how every little community in rural France seem to have a 7.2kw charger, there are some near us in the Poitou Charente in villages of 200 people!...The Rapid charge situation could be improved a lot though and it is a big country so long trips need a bit of planning. To be fair we have had no problem getting on to 50Kw DC chargers on trips to Switzerland and Brittany, never found one broken so far but did find one that being commissioned and was free..it had AC and DC options but the DC wasn’t working. Charged at Bordeaux airport for free on 7.2kw while picking someone up from there..they have 20 EV spaces!...Most French towns have a few FOC charging places in pay car parks, have used them in Poitiers and Niort. Thanks for raising this issue, someone please give Ecotricity a kicking..I was a customer and a big fan of Mr. Vince back in the 1990s when his customer service for domestic power was great..now the reputation is terrible and he needs some feedback.
I live in Littleton, Colorado, USA (Denver Suburbs).
After moving back to CO from living in a more rural setting that wouldn't support much of an EV lifestyle outside of Teslas; I decided to get an EV after much research on available public plug-ins, costs of vehicle, operating one, etc. Your videos helped me get to here, so I'm very much appreciative of your content … thank you! I opted for a Leaf, and have been loving it. Best car I've ever owned so far.
Our network out here, while fairly reliable at first (it's only been 5 months!) has seemed to dwindle in its reliability. My closest one hasn't absolutely worked for the better part of two months. The second closest, and one of the newer ones, I pulled up to yesterday and it was completely shot. Someone broke one of them and was out of order, and the other seemed to be on but not working. Another close-by source's plug doesn't even work with my car, so it's out for me.
One of the more frustrating things, as you mentioned, was this info wasn't readily available to me before heading to these locations. And even if I wanted to find out this info, the number of apps I have to go through is a bit silly and is a redundancy ICE drivers don't have to deal with.
Luckily enough I work from, and can charge at home and don't have to worry about commutes. I've only ever taken my Leaf on trips in the metro area where I know I can charge at the location or at a destination if it's long enough.
Again, thank you for the great content, I really enjoy watching your videos!
IMHO I think you are correct about Ecotricity. They should be applauded for the first leg of the venture however as you say they have had a monopoly since 2012. At most services they installed two chargers ( I know some were only one but bare with me) since then nothing. I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect them to add to the existing chargers at let's say 1 new charger every 2 years. If that had happened then most service areas would have had 5 or 6 chargers on each site, enough for an overlap for faults/out of action especially as unlike the other providers they only operate in the service areas ( I think) . I know it is an expensive capital expenditure to do this but we hear almost daily of how much money the Government has pledged to help the infrastructure. If Ecotricity cannot access this money they should be shouting from the rooftops about broken promises. End of rant.
This was exactly my point around 7 months ago when i found that Ecotricity "ccs fix" didnt work. With our Kona being our only car in the family and me having to regularly drive 500 miles to my Dads i learnt something very quickly, use ZapMap and highlight all ccs chargers except Ecotricity. Like you have said we were promised new chargers and faster chargers by Dale Vince at the first Q&A at fully charge few years ago enough is enough now. Like you i agree that time is up for them, all networks should be able to install at services but it would be very useful if regardless of the charger or tariff they all just worked from contactless payment.
I was an early adopter back in 2013 and had 2 x Nissan Leafs, after a spirited investment from Nissan and Ecotricity the Investment in the EH stopped, Dale Vince basically land grabbed access to all of the MSA across the country, he only let Tesla in there because they paid a huge sum for access at selected service areas, the chargers that they used were in comparison to others poor quality and suffered from many faults and issues, they are better but are still very unreliable.
Dale Vince and his company might look like they spurned the adoption of electric cars in the UK however they are now holding it back, I understand in many ways why they are reluctant to invest so heavily as its a very tricky business to make money in, the chargers are very expensive, they are expensive to install and maintain and they are abused and mis used very often, also people dont want to pay much more than their domestic rate for the electricity they provide.
Government should do a lot more to support the installation and maintenance of these sites and then maybe we will see some change, I am getting a Tesla Model 3 next year, I did consider other manufacturer's but most decent car options have moved over to CCS I am not confident about any other car with CCS than a Tesla Model 3 because of the supercharger network, your new electric car experience can go from great to really bad very quickly if you rely on the electric highway for long journeys, particularly if your car is CCS.
If I were the government I would give Dale Vince a deadline, hes very keen in taking everyone to court to get his way, its about time someone did that with him and kicked him out of the Motorway Service Areas.
Thank you for this - it’s what I’ve been thinking for a while: EVs are great and I want one, BUT, the charger situation for non Tesla owners is not fit for purpose. I can’t persuade my wife that we should get an EV as our only car until the charging situation is at least as good as the Tesla setup. As more EVs become available this is only going to get worse surely. I know you can charge at home and wake up with a 'full tank' but if you are having a holiday touring around the UK, which we like to do, we do not want to be stressing about chargers not working or not being available. Petrol stations are so ubiquitous that it’s never an issue to find one and even if all pumps are in use you know it will only be a few minutes before someone will leave.
It’s a catch 22 isn’t - EVs won’t become more popular until the charging network is fit for purpose; and who is going to invest in chargers unless there are enough EVs to make it economically viable. The genius of Tesla is that they saw this and put in the charging network first thus breaking the circle - it took a lot of money of course!
So unless we can afford a Tesla (unlikely) I’m afraid an EV is not for me until there’s a dramatic improvement in the charging network and/or battery range and/or charging speeds. I’m sure the oil companies are very happy with this situation!
I’ll keep watching your channel of course, as I know I will get good unbiased information here.
One of the things we do when considering our holiday is to look for places with a charge point(s) you can use whilst staying there. It can be quite a trial but they do exist and we have had the last 3 years holiday at B&B's and cottages with charging available. We also consider the journey and plan any charging necessary around natural and meal stops so in actuality the charging takes as long as it takes to plug in. We are a one car couple.
I have also found that hotels and B&B owners on the whole are really accommodating. I normally call in advance and make sure it’s ok.
@@EVOpinion Hi, I mean hotels, B&B, cottages and holiday parks that have charging facilities that they advertise, not somewhere where I can use the 'Granny Cable'. Although that can also come in handy.
@@manwithcorsae7738 most people can not or should not be arsed or have to piss about with that. And that is the issue, also not everyone likes to meticulously plan a touring holiday
@@marklola12 Then most people will miss out on the fantastic drive in a quiet, easy and extremely inexpensive car.
Hi Ryan. Thanks for posting what’s a really important message. In brief answer to your questions (as a Kona owner myself): (1) Ecotricity either needs to urgently upgrade their infrastructure or other providers need to given the opportunity to install chargers in our motoway service stations (their CCS connectors are notoriously unreliable with the Kona (keep tripping out) and so simply can’t be relied on); (2) whether it’s a good idea to buy an EV depends on where you live as there is such a geographical variability in the current distribution of rapid chargers (related presumably to levels of EV ownership) - should be fine if you live in the SE for example where there are abundant chargers and providers but you’d struggle if you bought a second hand Leaf for example and travelled extensively around parts of the NW where they’re thin on the ground.
I never suggest electric cars to those who can't charge at home or work.
Unfortunately the supercharger experience isn’t great either. Stoped for my first supercharger experience on Sunday. Should have been 150kw & a 15 minute stop but the charge varied between 32kw and 53kw which resulted in queues and a 1 hour stop. Wife has now ruled out any long trips in the Tesla.
Just reflecting further on the points made in the video. One thing that seems to happen is that you get clusters of chargers. In Warrington there is an out of town shopping centre called Gemini. 2 chargers at M&S and another 4 at IKEA next door. Also a few main dealers have them along with leisure centres and the like. Then there are the charge point deserts. This shows how we need a strategic approach with a focus on dealing with the "deserts" being a priority.
I couldn't agree more with your comments. We purchased a Leaf in 2014 and for the first few years everything was great. Unfortunately the number of chargers on the motorway never kept pace with the growing number of electric vehicles. The final straw came for us last Christmas when we tried to charge at services on the M62. There was already a car charging and another one waiting on both the outward and return journeys adding at least 2 hours to our traveling time. We have since swapped the Leaf for a diesel Mercedes which does at least 50 miles to the gallon. I have however also swapped my works pick up for the Nissan van which I can charge up overnight. So as you rightly say if you do regular journeys where you need to charge an electric car might not be for you.
Cannot understand why Ecotricity haven't updated their hardware to work with ALL cars that use CCS. I'd use them (and pay for the privilege) rather than seek out alternatives like Polar, Instavolt and Pod Point (plus GeniePoint and Engenie). Competition is key here. as Stephen Bird suggests, 2 providers in competition would be a good start.
I popped into a Bannatynes gym today to charge my Kona. Could have got home on the charge I had, but it was an excuse to stop and use the cafe - I'm not a member but they are happy to let you use the cafe whilst charging. Turns out, it's 2 minutes from the M42 motorway. Easy to get to when you know where it is but not as convenient for many drivers as pulling into a service area and plugging in.
Lee Smart and I guess that’s why they keep the monopoly. If another company fitted new chargers next to Ecotricity ones nobody would use them!
I think a large part is they simply don’t have the money. If you look over the history I believe they got a massive amount of cash from the government initially, since then they have done the bare minimum of maintenance and upgrading.
That particular instavolt was ideal after returning from Birmingham Airport heading South, didn’t even bother thinking about ecotricity.
Totally agree with your comments, but I would go further. All public chargers should have a common payment system (ideally a card system) so that I/we don't have to look for chargers that have the App, card, or payment system that I/we are a familiar with. Secondly, there just aren't enough chargers in most locations you might drive through or visit. For example there are only two chargers in Harlow Essex, none in Waltham Abbey Essex, none in Bishops Stortford Essex. My three examples are busy towns with plenty of parking places, so why are there no charge points?
I charge at home, which is fine for the places I visit, but if I had to drive out side the range of my car, I would straightaway have the worry of finding a charging point that is working & excepts my payment system.
Polar (ChargePoint) is worse than ever since BP (the oil company, the one who makes a packet from carbon spewers) bought it. The sin is double because if they were well maintained it would be great (they aren't) but worse is the apps don't get updated so you can drive off route to get to one to find (as you did) it's faulty.
I agree Polar has got worse since BP took over. I felt like a ping pong ball recently on journey to South Devon on M5 , with Polar and Ecotricity chargers not available to charge my ZE40Q90. Only one Polar between Bristol and Exeter's Racecourse and it was shutdown for Renovation of Harvester. Ecotricity has lots of single Rapids along this part of route and Sedgemoor still not working despite arriving after engineers just finishing servicing the unit? The plug end at Bridgewater's only rapid worked despite half shield around pins missing.
Well thanks for the depressing news, I've just signed a lease on my first EV a new Ioniq 38kWh! Hopefully I will be able to do the vast majority of charging at home but it would be nice to have a reliable fast charging network for the occasional longer trip.
There are definitely a lot of instances where the wrong type of chargers are being installed in the wrong type of places. Really annoying.
And yes, Ecotricity are still blocking the most obvious place for rapid chargers and they aren’t expanding their network fast enough or really at all it seems like. I do use them myself and they tend to work well for me but I’m on type 2 and don’t have CCS which is where the problems tend to be.
In my opinion formed from long experience, Ecotricity are not the company with the right business commitment to run our core backbone charging network. For what it’s worth, Instavolt are without doubt the kind of company that can deliver a first class service and experience to the ever growing number of EV owners in the U.K. The problem here is politics and bureaucracy within local and National planning committees across this country are hindering Instavolt in their pursuit of prime sites. If I were a conspiracy theorist I would have to say some of this political BS is funded by the carbon exploration industry.
See my comment in Stephen Bird’s reply at the top of the page. Instavolt are not necessarily the answer!
I'm truly sorry to hear your frustration and Ecotricity not keeping up when they were a leader, there is so much information, new cars and competition now and if they cannot met or exceed what is becoming standard then they deserve to loose their monopoly because they are FAILING the Public. I hope someone send your video to the CEO of the company on twitter, and wherever they can see it. It's not rocket science ( now even those are better and do things they never did before) and since EV's are the future, they have no excuse.
I agree with everything you said. Q1: Ecotricity should lose their monopoly ASAP. Q2: Recommend EVs? If you only do local journeys and can charge at home then yes, otherwise, in the UK, probably no. My main problem is ICEing. It's time for the government to get a grip and sort it out. No one else can. Is the situation better in Scotland?
I am lucky, I own a Tesla and the charging infrastructure is always brilliant. It is never an issue for me to travel long distances in Canada. However, it is good to see what other people have to go through.
Have you thought about getting an interview with Dale Vince owner of Ecotricity and see how he responds to this criticism?
That really depends where in Canada you live. There are currently no SuperChargers in Manatoba, Sakatchawan or most of Northern Ontario. That's a distance of 3000 km (yes thousand) from Sudbury to Calgary with no Superchargers. Also, in Ontario, there is a huge void west of Ottawa, north of the 401 (on highways 7 an 17).
I have owned a Kia e Nero for about 3 months,and the car is great. We live in Truro Cornwall and we recently drove it to Gloucester to see our son. Getting there was fine & while there we explored the Cotswolds all on the same charge .
But the the problems started when we returned to Cornwall. We called in at Gloucester services for a rapid charge top up to get us home whilst we had a meal. How stupid & naive we were to put our trust in Ecotricity electric highway. The CCS rapid charger was out of action so instead of 40-50 mins, we spent 2hrs there on the slow pump charging enough to get us to the next service station for another recharge. That one did work, but we had to call in at Cornwall Services for a "splash n dash" to get us home as we were about 5 miles short on the GOM. BAD news 2 pumps were there but both were out of action! So in the end we had to call the AA to get us low loaded home at 3.15 in the morning! A journey that normally takes us 3 hrs took us 7.
I do hope Dale Vince sees this and your blog and shame him into doing something about it. I did complain to Ecotricity about this debacle and had the cost of the recharges refunded but they need to put a massive reinvestment back into Electric highway to bring them up to date.
I emailed EcoT back in 2016 about the state of their chargers and was told that they were about to be updated (ha ha). They went downhill when they removed the ability to use their RFID card. They app was never and still isn't reliable. Mind you have you ever tried to use Polar Instant. You can tell that Polar want you to use their subscription model. Which is no good for casual users. What is needed beyond a reliable infrastructure is pay by card at the charger. Yes it is time the monopoly was removed. It should have happened a couple of years ago. I don't understand why BP and Shell don't install chargers in their forecourts, or is that covered by the monopoly?
We're a single car couple (retired) and have driven electric since late 2015. We find that if you plan with plans A, B and C then you can get around the country without too much hassle. We have done 14700 miles in a 22 kWh Zoe in 2 years and 18300 miles in 18 months in current Zoe 41 kWh. One of the upsides with Zoe at EcoT sites is that she can drink 22 kW at the AC posts and at 13 locations there are extra smaller posts that are 22 kW and free to use (Check out Charnock Richard and Oxford Wheatley). I would recommend an EV to anyone who has the time to plan ahead and doesn't need to rush, but as you say that shouldn't be the case. Until EV are as easy to as an ICE, recognisable signs for directions to the chargers and a mode of use that flows across all networks, it just ain't gonna happen. Just been to Intu Derby and tried to follow the signs in the car park to the (2 and 2) chargers and the signs ran out before I found them.
Thank you for this very honest video. Something that I've been saying for a year or 2 to people. EV's are expensive initially and the network just isn't there at the moment!
Now, 2nd hand EV's are in the price range of most people but only those that can charge at home and do short journeys or are prepared for a lengthy wait every 100 miles to charge!
I live in North Wales, can't charge at home, can only have 1 car for everything and can't afford much! Public chargers in North Wales are few and Rapids are far between, so without long range (expensive) EV's, we are confined to shorter journeys. I could charge in my local town, but why would I want to go shopping for 4 hours every week or so? And if I drive to the coast - 70 miles away for a day trip, would I be able to get a charge at my destination or at a rapid on the way back? If not, I'm stuffed!
Added to this, up here, it's rather hilly everywhere and gets very cold in the winter, so limits the available range! Even the large amounts of rain mean driving on low resistance tyres can be sketchy!
I desperately want an EV, for the lack of fuel costs and to "save" the environment! But until long range EV's come down in price and the network improves drastically, the only EV's I can consider are Plug-ins, driven mostly in EV mode, but only the Outlander can rapid charge (too big and 4x4!), so will have to block up a 7kw charger and face the shame!
But these cars are at least £12k, so can't afford even these! So will have to get a normal hybrid, then in 2 to 3 tears, a Plugin, then followed by a half price Kona in a further 5 years!
Electric driving is a long way off for me!
Hi thanks for your blog, I’ve got a Kia ENiro on order from my employer, I’m very interested in the performance of the charging network and as someone who will be doing a fair few miles I’m concerned about this situation but also not surprised. Let’s face it our motorway service stations are at best a disgrace, overpriced, out of date offerings basically they all look a little tired. Let’s hope they get things moving and get other suppliers the opportunity to provide an alternative service. I like your informative videos please keep up the good work all the best Jon
I bought an I-pace which I charge at home 99% of the time which is a good thing as the one time I drove to the lake district and back app 270 miles each way using ecotricity was an absolute nightmare. One out of twelve CCs worked and it took 14 hours to get back home. Ecotricity are aware of the problems with newer cars and Jag in particular. They should be given a time limit and if they do not put it right be stripped of their franchise
Polar saved the day and worked as they should. I think the only ev I would buy if I had to do 200+ miles a day isa Tesla is a pity as the Jag is fantastic in every way
But how much was your vehicle to buy? Are you a masochist - 14 hours and how many rows/ how much high blood pressure with your passenger to get home?
Of course I am a masochist, I have been married 42 years
On a serious note I was commenting on my experience, but it seems your comment was based on nasty jealousness, you must be a Corbin supporter
The Netherlands is well sorted
Chin up Ryan, things can only get better and of course they will. My issue is still with the availability of local chargers for folk without off road parking. I have read that up to one third of car owners have to park on the street and that proportion could increase with more and more flats being developed in heavily populated areas. How can we reach out to these guys when the urban charging infrastructure is relatively sparse? In my case we have one rapid charging point about a mile way and a number of AC points dotted around. We would look to use the latter for simply topping up. My local council took over a year to respond to my request for a charging point on our street. When they replied they wanted to check if I was still interested in one! I am sure we will get there but it can test test your patience at times. Keep up the good work fella 👍🏼
I feel very much the same. I live in Texas and the charging infrastructure in my state is very disappointing. I drive a BMW i3 and getting from Amarillo to Austin is quite a struggle. Now if I had a Tesla that can get over 200 miles per charge the issue would be less. But insurance for the Tesla in Texas is rather expensive so not really in my budget. Hopefully as Electrify America expands in my area we will have more options to charge, but they are really the only reliable option I have for fast charging in most journeys. Fortunately most of my traveling is to and from work so I charge at home.
Great video as always, I appreciate your view on all the wide range of subjects you take on for us.
Here in Australia we are 10 years behind England regarding a charger network. For me it's charge at home, or at only a few locations. My Leaf is only for commuting, that's all I could ever expect of it. If I need a road trip car I swap car keys with my wife, and everyone is happy. I'd love my EV to replace our ICE car, but there is no proper network here for that. I'm pretty certain I should have bought a hybrid, and I might just trade the leaf in if I can get a good deal with a used car dealer who does trade-ins. I spoke to a Camry hybrid owner a couple of nights ago, his car is silent, totally EV up to 40 kph, after which the petrol engine seamlessly switches in, and the battery gets recharged then. Sure, it still uses petrol, and I wan't to stay away from that, but he's getting 980 klms PER tank. That's pretty amazing, so he has a range of 980 ks, around 600 miles.
Here in Scotland we have charge place Scotland and it’s brilliant have been to England twice in the Leaf been let down both times lucky the campsite I was Staying at let me charge 16 bloody hours
EcoTricity has had more than enough time to follow up on their promises. They cannot afford the upgrades and putting up their prices is driving even more revenue to other providers already. Currently, the consumer is losing out as they have to plan around EcoTricity not working and the services themselves are losing revenue as EV drivers are diverting off to other locations to charge. I heard a rumour that a new service station in Leeds will ONLY have Ionity. Not sure how that's got around the Monopoly but I hope that's true.
I have seen Ionity at M20 J8 so they are getting on to motorway services.
I couldn't agree with you more, after owning an i3, also since 2015. It's great that Ecotricity did what they did, but having a CCS car, my experience has often been one of great frustration over the last 4 years. Ecotricity/Electric Highway have THE prime locations on the UK motorway network. It's well past the time when they should have at least replaced their old chargers (let alone added more units). Some locations still don't have any CCS at all, even though I was told they were addressing that 3 years ago. 2020 is going to be a big year for new EV releases, so it's even more important there is an extensive and reliable infrastructure to support the increase in new owners.
Just brought a used 30kwh leaf ( my first Ev) I currently don't have off street parking so have been using polar ( charge master) my second charge was a disaster ( local park and ride all chargers were down) but charge master helped me locate working chargers nearby, I'm yet to do a long distance drive but I'm aware it's a case of planning and very much compromise.
At the moment it's for the brave/adventurous.
There should be competition , this keeps prices down and hopefully makes those chargers more reliable as a consequence ( if your not performing you'll just go out of buisness).
Couldn’t agree more, I came back from Plymouth this week and needed a top up to get home, ecotricity not working at one station, had to push the envelope and got to another service station on the M5 hoping the charger worked. Fortunately it was, Dale vince has a lot to answer for,
why do the authorities not allow an alternative supplier such as instavolt be allowed to install an alternative.
I went to Kent recently from the Midlands and the only instavolt charger in the area worked perfectly, I even bumped into an instavolt engineer doing a maintenance call on the site to make sure they were working, I’ve never seen an ecotricity engineer ever.
I don’t mind paying a bit more to instavolt as I know that without fail their chargers will be working!
Ps Kona owner, so great range but some journeys I still need a top up.
Telford in the Westmidlands, not a single public charge at local town center and council haven't installed any. Supermarkets are leading the way. Shame on you #Telford
We got an all electric Ioniq 3 yrs ago and it is a terrific car to drive. We regularly make a 250 mile journey from Kent to see relatives and have got used to careful route planning beforehand. I loved Ecotricity then and - because of the lower rate at charging stations - got our domestic supply from them too. But as EVs have become more common we have had some real problems. There are not enough 50+ kWh CCS chargers. Though there may be 2 together, you can't use one if its pair charge point is occupied - and often they are out of order. And Ecotricity only seem to answer calls 9-5 weekdays. Hopeless on Sundays or Bank Holidays.
So we recently switched our domestic electricity supplier to another, cheaper equally green provider and began to look at alternative EV chargers on route which were more reliable, did not have the faff of having an APP, and were in many cases cheaper. Also my wife now makes regular journeys on her own to Leicester (170 miles to visit her parents in a nursing home) and she hates the need for APPs. It can be pretty scary for a person alone if the APP isn't working, the charger is ICED or there simply aren't enough of them when you're too low to get home.This is particularly unpleasant when it is raining. She cannot put the cable in one handed, or hold an umbrella while getting out her phone and security pin etc. (Why don't they have weather protection?)
So now we look for supermarkets, public car parks, hotels etc close to our route which have CCS which accept contactless cards. Although often we have to divert a few miles it is worth it. (After all, when we get to our destination, we sometimes pay more for parking than we do for the fuel , and that is simply a card or coin deal. If you've got the money, pay and go like ICE drivers do!!! )
But I disagree with the very good video re charge point inadequacy on one main point. ALL charge points should be 50 kWh minimum. I only use public chargers when I am trying to get somewhere. Obvious I know, but we charge up 90% of times at home. Who wants to leave their car all night on a 7Kwh charger? We don't want to go to a supermarket charger to find that it is occupied by a family who have gone out shopping for the day. No idea when it will be free. Usually these low energy chargers are just lip service by Local authorities and others pretending to be 'green'.
The peak District is the most visited national park in the UK only second to mount Fuji in visitations.
However don't bother going in a ev as the charge network is appalling.
Wrote my first comment before I got to the end of your video - sorry! You asked if Ecotricity should be given more time to sort themselves out or not. Definitely NOT. I now don't use motorway services which is lost revenue to the site operator because I can't be bothered to see if Ecotricity is working or has been upgraded yet (very unlikely). They are the most appalling advert for NOT buying an EV, unless it's a Leaf. They have been making excuses for over a year, so no, they've used up my patience and that of many others. Give the contract to a more modern operator who has the financial clout to do the job professionally. There should be multiple banks of chargers, not 1 or 2. 8 or 10 at least. Who queues for petrol or diesel? Maybe 3 or 4 minutes for the pump to clear, but 30-40 minutes? I don't think so!
It should all look so much different but the end of 2020, given the plans of the competitors bit that seems a long way off. That's why I bought a Kona so I could do 95% of charging at home, with the long range making this a reality.
Ecotricity lost my custom when they began charging for the time you were connected rather than per kilowatt - it's illegal to do that to a domestic consumer but the legislation pre-dates mass produced electric vehicles and so they exploited the loophole - I don't want to be a customer of a company that has such little regard for those that need to use it.
Tesla Tike I agree there’s a time limit but surely charging is per kWh?
They were forced to change from charging per 30 minutes to so much per kilowatt after the intervention of the Office of Fair Trading but then they added a “Connection Charge” on top. I haven’t used them for years as a result - I believe that they currently charge 35p per kWh, I understand that they need to recoup the original costs of setting up the network but Podpoint have installed two new rapid chargers in my area and they only charge 23p per kWh! Clearly Ecotricity either has an unsustainable commercial model or it is profiteering - whichever is the case, it is not surprising that very few use their network - it is cheaper to burn petrol!
Cgarging by time on a rapid is a good thing, as it discourages ill-informed people hogging chargers while only drawing a few kW to get the last 20% of charge, which would be no faster than an AC charger.
Agreed the monopoly is not working
I'm shocked but not surprised at your video comment. And I'm 1,000% with you on this opinion. Even though I rarely use Rapid chargers (lucky me huh?). But having just last week come to CCS I'm now living in fear of the Ecotricity experience. And it really should not be that way at all. Who fears pulling in to a petrol station, that the pumps won't work on their car?
So with a CCS cart I now strategize to not even bother with service stations that do not have other networks present. But its not advice that those I speak with about EV are willing to accept. And so EV remains in the Motorway doldrums. At least until the Ecotricity stranglehold can be broken or they up their game significantly.
As a newbie to EV ownership, I have not had to rely to much on the rapid charger network. I have used the 'fast' free charger in Marlands car park, Southampton. which didn't seem to give as much charge as expected for my Leaf whilst shopping for 3 hours, so I used the Ecotricity Rownhams rapid charger successfully to make sure i got back to East Sussex on a very rainy day, I found out that despite having more than 30 miles on the GoM extra I made it home with only 8 miles extra, big lesson learnt on very wet roads and how much drag it causes.
Yes Ecotricity have the monopoly with service station chargers, will there be an option to bring in other companies? I doubt it as there isn't a choice of different companies for fossil fuels, hence why services charge so much more.
However I do notice though if you make a small diversion off the motorways then there is a choice of other companies you can use to charge your car as well as other fossil stations to buy cheaper fuel. For instance, while I travel around in a company van for work I notice 2 BP garages opposite each other on a major A road and their fuel prices are at least 6p higher than average per litre. A small detour still roughly travelling in the right direction will save that 6p per litre.
I guess it all depends if you are on a mission to get somewhere. Personally I'd like to think I would plan to leave a lot earlier and maybe stop somewhere where hopefully there's a nice town you can visit before or after you've rapid charged for decent pub food and also to let the battery cool down, bloody rapid-gate..
Edit: Not saying you didn't leave enough time to make it home for your daughters birthday.. Just me planning my next trip to Hereford
That model is completely anti-competitive, I'm amazed there hasn't been class action lawsuits yet or even thought of, but even other charging providers taking them on in the courts. The entire motorway service stations need to be open to all not one provider. Freedom of choice. You have so many choices and where I live currently there is only 2 rapid chargers, one 70km and the other over 200km away from where I live, with only one with a 7kW backup there is more in planning but most of them will be single chargers but at least no lock in contracts for one provider every site multiple providers could setup. Totally agree on model though rapid/fast chargers really need to be on major through ways not in city centres necessarily. Places where you are there a while 22kW or 7kW chargers are needed as you stated. Love your channel every since I subscribed many moons ago now. Keep up the honesty what I like to see. :)
I am an ecotricity customer so I get the cheaper rate. As yet I have been quite satisfied with the service, although most of my charging is done at home. My reason for using ecotricity is that they only use renewable energy. I would give them time to upgrade their charging stations because it is difficult making a profit in the early stages and I'd want to see the cost / expenditure / investment and return paperwork before making a judgement. Competition would be healthy, but it has to be on a level playing field. I have had considerably more trouble trying to use PodPoint, Polar and other suppliers. Chargeplace being a reliable exception on the few times I have used it.
Now it’s 2020. When was this recorded? I got an EV few days ago, and your video is spot on! The Govt needs to urgently allow all companies to compete. Another useful thing to know is that Elderly or others with cardiac Pace maker and rhythm problems have to be careful! Found in their manual! Never thought about it.
Inverclyde only 2 ageing rapid chargers have been out of order for over 20 days now, I reported them as soon as I found out to the charging operators. Don’t have home for my leaf so reliant on public chargers. If only I lived in Dundee where the council are more encouraging of different companies like own free EV hubs plus Fastned coming there soon too 😢 Good video 👍🏻
Subscribed because I have a Honda e on order. The range is not great, but neither is my normal usage (I’m retired) and also use my TREK ebike for many local journeys. However I am very interested in a) Reliability of Rapid Charger network and b) Growth of Network/no.s of charge points, esp. CCS. Our local Morrisons in Wincanton recently added 4 bays with GeniePoint chargers. Great. Today 3 were in use when I arrived. So it seems demand is already as great as supply. 2 BEV & 1 PHEV
Another excellent video - completely agree with every word!
2 Ecotricity Rapid chargers at Birchanger services on M11, the only rapids within 100 square miles and near a major airport!! One of the Ecotricity chargers is on free vend almost all of the time and is in constant use by cab drivers.I have seen screaming arguments at this site with EV drivers. The other rapid is always broken and very unreliable, it's just totally crap!! I hate going to these services to top up now, and breathe a sigh of relief if there is a charger free, which is getting rarer by the day, an absolute joke!!
Thanks for being so honest about EVs. You have talked me out of buying one.
I’m very lucky that my only ‘out of range’ long journey in my Zoe has Milton Keynes on route. Just off the M1 is the excellent facility at MK Coachway - 10 polar rapids and some ionity units. Only ever seen one other person charging at the same time. More of these type of facilities are needed ASAP.
I have a 7kW (Zappi) charger at home and my wife has a 7kW charger at work and for us with a 140(w) to 160(s) ranged e-Golf that satisfies 95%+ of our charging needs. When we do longer drives I have used Ecotricity motorway chargers but as you point out they can not be relied on so we always plan an alternative which usually involves a short diversion from our route. I think that you are right that it is now time to open up the Service station chargers to other companies but I don't think these deficiencies should stop you recommending a move to an EV as they are not insurmountable problems with a little planning ahead.
Ryan . Good discussion. In the 4 years I have had an EV . There has been massive improvement . However .
EH have not kept pace and now the woeful inadequacy of their monopoly is become transparent and I think is now holding back adoption. There are also areas of the UK still vastly underdeveloped .
1. Thing that is welcome is the broadening amount of chargers taking contactless . Also the recent roaming deal between nextcharge Shell/newmotion ionity intavolt engenie meant I can now use my new motion fob to access with ease instead of messing with multiple apps ..
I agree entirely; I could not recommend an EV to my elderly neighbours due to public chargers being unreliable. DfT and BEIS need to modernise the Regulation of Motorway Services to require at least 12 DC chargers from 3 competing companies which meet a minimum specification. The minimum charging speed should be reviewed at least annually. The regulations should require a minimum reliability in order to qualify as a supplier.
It is unfortunate for competition that Ecotricity have a monopoly. However, if we look back to 2011 there was probably not a lot of people who thought EVs would catch on so they grabbed the monopoly and we are where we are. As a Leaf owner I’ve never had a problem with Ecotricity. Of course Nissan were instrumental in the Electric Highway being installed so Leafs work fine. Maybe if the manufacturers putting CCS in their vehicles want reliable motorway charging then they should work with Ecotricity and maybe contribute to the cost of the network. The Tesla Superchargers are a brilliant network paid for by the manufacturer.
You are spot on again Ryan. I’ve been driving my EV for over 2 years to date and the infrastructure has got better and is more available. I’d like to see more slow chargers (7kw) at public areas (cinemas, shopping) Motorway service stations I have previously relied out for comfort breaks. Now with the lack of availability and reliability of Electric a Highway service stations are not getting my business as I go elsewhere. Shame as I started my EV transition like you. BP Chargemaster will get there soon. Hoping Wales gets more rapid chargers in central parts like Snowdonia.
Good video, thanks, stopped at fleet services on the m3 a few weeks ago and noted that ecotricity were in the process of installing 15 new stations, I wasn’t buying an EV then, but I’m about to put a deposit down now. Fully agree that systems need to be better and more numerous. How many people are contacting companies like supermarkets to install a few. The more attention we bring the quicker I hope the situation improves. Keep up the good vids
Completely agree with all you said. There is hope that petrol station forecourts at service areas will install chargers. I can only recommend an EV as a second car to friends and family. My Soul is only 30kwh, I don't have the flexibility to search out chargers if my chosen one is broken. Also if there is a queue for a charger it extends my journey significantly
This! Just had to give a bad review to the UK infrastructure, and unfortunately, Ecotricity, during the recent national survey, I have leaf as a second car, and on the odd occasions I’ve had to do motorway miles, I’ve encountered broken infrastructure, no phone signal, so can’t use the app, or tethered to a particular network that you have to apply for a RFID tag for. I feel your pain. I’d love to know what Ecotricity is really up to. I don’t believe it’s just complacency.
Frustrating thing for me is people not using the charging notification apps, like Plugshare....so many times I've gone to my main local rapid point and its in use by another car who hasn't bothered to check in. Every time I look at Plugshare I'm pretty much the only person updating on it. Another big problem is those that are installed at a car park that has parking fees associated too. Sure....this was fine back when the charging was free....but now those free days are over, with the high charging price on top of a high parking fee, it can work out more than being in an ICE. My last moan.....car parks with parking eyes that have short maximum stays......all great in theory...til you have to queue to get to a charger, when then may have no time to actually charge!!! It needs an overhaul
I guess I'm lucky that I'm in Scotland so we have hardly any ecotricity units to worry about. Yesterday I did 260 miles driving to Aberdeen and back. Used chargeplace Scotland and engenie chargers and had not a single issue
@Richard Wood sounds like the problem may be ccs rather than any one network
I aspire to have dc fast non-proprietary charging stations with 5 charge points each within 2 miles of each other where I live. Its not happening! More like public charge point austerity deprivation in a desert with an occasional charge point oasis here and there.
According to PlugShare, a dealership put one public 24-KW DC fast charging css station between two service bay doors .
But.... After hours entry may be complicated. It looks as if you can enter 24/7 from eastbound 20th Street, using the dealership's second entrance (which is just BEFORE the Evergreen/Safeway/Staples driveway!) and following signs to the Service Department. You may also be able to enter from northbound 136th Place (traversing the Caspian Restaurant parking lot and entering through an unmarked driveway at the southwest end of the dealership). No problem on a dark rainy night.
Nice to see an honest opinion, most EV videos are so dismissive of any negative points.
Not negative at all. Your take on things seems accurate. I drive a PHEV so public charging is not a necessity and I have no experience of Ecotricity. Priority From my perspective goes to EV’s. However I must say that when I got the PHEV 3 years ago it was with a view to transitioning to an EV.However my experience of public charging has caused me to think again. I agree - the infrastructure is fragile and customer support severely limited. More often than not the chargers I have tried have not worked. This is particularly true here in the North East and CYC dependence and I understand they were once something of a pioneer in EV facilities. Many of the units have been in a state of disrepair for months. Northumberland has taken some steps to replace existing units with Polar, PodPoint and Hubsta now featuring. However there are currently not enough of them either in this region or in other parts of the UK
Yes it is rubbish, here is an example... Chargeplace Scotland fanfaye on Facebook. They installed one charger in a station. ONE! We need rows of them even now. Most rapids are installed in busy sports centres and council premises or opposite takeaways. Guess what... always generally ICE'd.
Here in Portland OR, US the public charging is sadly short of needs, I regularly see out of service chargers. I completely agree that one or two chargers at a location is not enough, 4 should be a minimum, but 8+ ala Tesla is better. Yes, L2 at shops and restaurants, L3 on main roads, but also L1 at workplaces, park and rides, airports, stadiums, movie theaters, museums etc. Price is a problem too, free stations exist, but are rarer and often taken, and if you do the math almost all pay chargers here cost MORE PER MILE THAN GAS. Sometimes up to 4x. I'm happy to pay a reasonable rate for juice, but reasonable must be less than fossil fuel, by law if necessary.
At home I pay 1/6th the cost per mile than gas using time of use electricity. I also use a plugin hybrid averaging 75% electric to avoid the range anxiety issue. If I do run out of juice I can still get home without drama and more fuel efficiently than in an all gas version.
I’m a fan of your films Ryan and admire your positivity. I think this is your best post yet. The infrastructure is the thing that prevents me from going EV. I’ve got as far as a hybrid, and my replacement car is probably going to be another one, because the charging infrastructure isn’t happening quickly enough. I live in Cornwall and have sons at university in two different parts of the country. If we have to travel to go see either I don’t want to be setting out spreadsheets planning charge points en route to then find they don’t work. I did St Austell to Bath and back in one evening (very late return I grant you) in my hybrid yesterday with one top up. I could not have contemplated the same journey in an EV, becaus I would have had to book the next day off work “just in case” I couldn’t get a charge on the way home.
Incidentally, we stopped on the M5 on the way up and initially I saw a Leaf and an I 3 at two Ecotricity charge points. The I 3 trying two points that weren’t working before having to wait for the Leaf to finish to get a charge. It’s not happening quickly enough.
Keep up the great work BTW.
andy bliss thank you very much and it sounds as if you have the right car at the moment. Unless you have £40k to spend on an EV which can cover 250+ miles on a charge you need to rely on the infrastructure. Arguably its there but unfortunately many chargers are unreliable. Thankfully there seems to be a big push at the moment and new ones are popping up all over the place 😁👍
Until full service charging networks are well established, PHEV s that extend their range are a great concept. The Outlander, Volt, and a couple others. Anything with a small engine to recharge you as you drive, and when you park in a place that doesn't have a good charger.
It’s time the electric highway, either sorted their charging infrastructure or loose their monopoly. It’s not good enough for them to sit on their laurels.. I believe electric highway are holding back the uptake of EVs. and should never have been given the monopoly of all the UK motorways, Indeed it tantamount to restrictive practice as there is no alternative and that’s not good for competition.
I don’t suppose it will get me anywhere but I will take this up will my local conservative MP, As I too drive an EV, a Kona, and I’ve had problems charging at the electric highway, in fact there rubbish.
Great video on a thorny topic - well said that man
Take a look at Norway - streets ahead of the UK - as usual.
In the USA there is a program being rolled out where Gas Stations are installing Chargers (Wawa - and Circle K {Shell} to name a few)
What the Government needs to do, is deregulate instead of happily dishing out monopolies.
Then and only then will only the best providers survive.
The EV market is here to stay - there will be more and more Cars using the infrastructure.
What also needs to be standardised is the Plugs / Chargers - why not once and for all have a unified standard - blow me - there isn't even an agreed standard for Mobile phone chargers - let alone Car plugs-ins - now there's a debate!!!
I agree, there needs to be improvements - everywhere.
But - do you remember how thrilled many of us were to be able to make a call or send text messages from a flip phone? Or take and share pictures on a Blackberry? Now, if it isn't ultra-fast, ultra-sleek, user-intuitive and pretty much figured out automatically for us at a touch of our fingerprint - we won't accept it. But that's not a criticism, it's an observation of human nature. And in reality, our desire for bigger-better-faster-more has helped drive innovation.
As for Ecotricity, (and here in Canada, companies like ChargePoint, Flo, and Sun Country), they should take a long, detailed look at BlackBerry...and be reminded of what happened to the biggest smartphone company in the world when they didn't invest and innovate as fast as Apple, Samsung, and Huawei.