The lecture raises an interesting point. There are two ways to access a work of art, one of them is by the detailed study of the history, influences and the period in which it was created, the other is the intuitive route, what does this say to me, stripped bare and looking at it in a contemporary way. That Ian Bostridge should choose the former is not surprising, given he is an historian. What this lecture, and incidentally his fascinating book does, is shine a light on the creation of a masterpiece and give us, the laymen, a foothold to build our understanding . I came to the Winterriese almost by accident. I worked as a merchant seaman, an engineer to be precise. I found the recording in a shop in Hong Kong and when I played it I found it intensely moving and somehow a commentary on my own life, that of a wanderer across the oceans, with all that implies. I do not speak German but somehow the music and the music of the words spoke to me in profound way. To say that I understood it fully would be a travesty, but understand I did. And surely that is what great art is about, it speaks a truth to us all within our personal experiences. I wonder if my experience of the piece would have been so sharp and poignant if I had followed the art historical route at that time. The truth is I did not need to, I was there! I am older now with a lifetime of experience and my return to the work through Ian Bostridge’s book and the recordings of both him and Fischer-Dieskau is a different affair, less raw and more considered, more intellectual, if you like. So there is a place for both. What I would also say with respect to the performer is that this process can follow exactly the same trajectory, it can be historical and research based or it can be intuitive. Neither holds the ascendency neither is the ‘right’ way, just different. And art both as a writer and as a performer is a creative process. Create - ‘cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes’. It is the truly great artists and performers who somehow do both.
Yes, why is it that the local yokel always feels compelled to speak for 10 minutes before we're allowed to hear the actual distinguished lecturer? They literally never have anything remotely interesting to say. It's pure ego...
Nice lecture. I also liked Ian Bostridge's book very much. I am bemused however at the comments attacking his singing - if you don't like his style, don't listen; but don't go claiming he isn't a good singer or a good artist. There are dozens of interpretations of Winterreise available, different voices, different artistic approaches... It's simply one of those transcendent works of art that can bear such a myriad of interpretations. Personally, Ian's Winterreise would not be my desert island go-to (that place goes to one of Fischer-Dieskau's versions), but I enjoyed it for all its idiosyncrasies. Boring it isn't. No doubt I'll continue to enjoy Winterreise in many, many different interpretations in the years to come.
As a dilettante, if I do say so myself, I think anyone who adds depth and richness to a dilettante's appreciation for a work of art has a gift. I've loved Winterreise since I heard it, as a teenager, on a Fischer-Diskau recording on DG more than 45 years ago, and now I know a little about what makes it beautiful to me, and I love it even more. If Bostridge's style is a bit mannered or audacious, it's still gorgeous ... to this dilletante's ear.
I went to Ian's performance at Eastman School of Music, February of 2018 and it changed my life. Life is a journey, and I'm a wanderer. "This is one of those songs that seem to have been going on forever at the very moment that they start. Repeated, moderately paced quavers trudge across the page and on through the song, restless, intertwined at first with a dispiriting descending figure broken by the stabs of accents which in Schubert's manuscript are stabs of pain. In that same manuscript, Schubert has given the song tempo marking "moderate, at a walking pace" -- and that walking motion, like a dying fall, is the touchstone of the whole work: a winter journey, moving from one place to another but, in a sense, privileging motion above all else, the need to get away, to be a wanderer in the nineteenth century's sense (the Wandering Jew, the Flying Dutchman), on the road in the twentieth century's (Jack Kerouac, Highway 61)."
This is an excellent talk. I'm looking forward to Ian Bostridge's Winterreise at the Library of Congress even though I'm not usually a fan of his. Don't think I'll be able to avoid buying his book either.
Thank you, watching from Spain, and totally agree that a humanities education is politically, actively being devalued. And it's culturally a shame, criminal even
1:17:27 - In his renditions of Schubert's song, Bostridge's pronunciation is almost flawless, but he really doesn't get "Werther" right. It's WER-ther, not wer-THER.
W.reise is a wonderful piece of art. I would like to hear it sung by a much younger voice than what one hears. usually (sort of pompous). Romantik was a very young movement - they were almost teen-agers
actually i like the winter reise sung by a deeper tenor/baritone voice, i picture the wandering men a little older/mature since he has this vast knowledge and i don't know they were about to marry and stuff, and how he laments about passed things. I love Dietrich Fischer-Diskaus versions!
This might be a stretch, but I have an interpretation in which the wanderer is already dead and is speaking to us as a ghost. He laments that he died before he could we'd hisnlove and that the daughter moved on and married a more wealthy man after his demise. Our journey is with him as a ghost haunting outside the house of his lover and retracing the journey upon which he died. Der Greise Kopf is him meditating on how he would have liked to have died old rather than young. Tauschubg, the will o' the wisp, could be the way in which he died. Led astray from the beaten path (Der Wegweiser) and ultimately to his untimely death. The peaceful rest that is denied by the Linden Tree and the Cemetary, speaks to this his ghostly state of limbo. The Leiermann at the end is a sort of ferryman figure who will take that wanderer to the afterlife, should he choose to go with him. There are holes in this (Die Krahe) why would a crow follow a ghost? But this could be a memory of his first journey, upon which he died. It's not the most sophisticated interpretation, but it's one I enjoy entertaining when listening to the song cycle.
James Frazier Not being a great singer he sings as he imagines a great lieder singer would sing and comes off artificial full of insights to bolster his limitations, he embalms the work instead of bringing it to life . .
Bitter & sour? This sounds like fiction. This person is simply & clearly expressing opinion, I read no bitterness into the comments at all. Perhaps you are being (unnecessarily?) defensive?
goddawful graduate student intellectual preening peacock for 20 minutes before we get to schubert, and then schubert through the filter of the over-written grad student's thesis, getting off his labored rounded sentences and check-list scholarly vocabulary and utterly pretentious footnotes and citations--(people in the hall actually sat through this...)--right now i'm at 31 minutes, waiting for gute nacht--ok, gute nacht was good--bad reverb and accompanist too loud, but that's sound issue with hall--so now i'm at 37 minutes and bostridge has returned to the lectern to talk grad student thesis-defense some more, and guys: i've heard enough--i mean, his recordings are out there, so if you want to hear him earnestly perform his thesis defense? be my guest--i'm outta here
The lecture raises an interesting point. There are two ways to access a work of art, one of them is by the detailed study of the history, influences and the period in which it was created, the other is the intuitive route, what does this say to me, stripped bare and looking at it in a contemporary way. That Ian Bostridge should choose the former is not surprising, given he is an historian. What this lecture, and incidentally his fascinating book does, is shine a light on the creation of a masterpiece and give us, the laymen, a foothold to build our understanding
.
I came to the Winterriese almost by accident. I worked as a merchant seaman, an engineer to be precise. I found the recording in a shop in Hong Kong and when I played it I found it intensely moving and somehow a commentary on my own life, that of a wanderer across the oceans, with all that implies. I do not speak German but somehow the music and the music of the words spoke to me in profound way. To say that I understood it fully would be a travesty, but understand I did. And surely that is what great art is about, it speaks a truth to us all within our personal experiences. I wonder if my experience of the piece would have been so sharp and poignant if I had followed the art historical route at that time. The truth is I did not need to, I was there!
I am older now with a lifetime of experience and my return to the work through Ian Bostridge’s book and the recordings of both him and Fischer-Dieskau is a different affair, less raw and more considered, more intellectual, if you like.
So there is a place for both. What I would also say with respect to the performer is that this process can follow exactly the same trajectory, it can be historical and research based or it can be intuitive. Neither holds the ascendency neither is the ‘right’ way, just different. And art both as a writer and as a performer is a creative process. Create - ‘cause to come into being, as something unique that would not naturally evolve or that is not made by ordinary processes’.
It is the truly great artists and performers who somehow do both.
Actual lecture begins at 8:15.
thanks for saving lifetime
Yes, why is it that the local yokel always feels compelled to speak for 10 minutes before we're allowed to hear the actual distinguished lecturer? They literally never have anything remotely interesting to say. It's pure ego...
Nice lecture. I also liked Ian Bostridge's book very much. I am bemused however at the comments attacking his singing - if you don't like his style, don't listen; but don't go claiming he isn't a good singer or a good artist. There are dozens of interpretations of Winterreise available, different voices, different artistic approaches... It's simply one of those transcendent works of art that can bear such a myriad of interpretations. Personally, Ian's Winterreise would not be my desert island go-to (that place goes to one of Fischer-Dieskau's versions), but I enjoyed it for all its idiosyncrasies. Boring it isn't. No doubt I'll continue to enjoy Winterreise in many, many different interpretations in the years to come.
You can say that again!
It is inspiring to have not only his exceptional singing voice, but his beautiful and clever mind speaking to us.
As a dilettante, if I do say so myself, I think anyone who adds depth and richness to a dilettante's appreciation for a work of art has a gift. I've loved Winterreise since I heard it, as a teenager, on a Fischer-Diskau recording on DG more than 45 years ago, and now I know a little about what makes it beautiful to me, and I love it even more. If Bostridge's style is a bit mannered or audacious, it's still gorgeous ... to this dilletante's ear.
This upload is a gift. Thank you very much.
I went to Ian's performance at Eastman School of Music, February of 2018 and it changed my life. Life is a journey, and I'm a wanderer. "This is one of those songs that seem to have been going on forever at the very moment that they start. Repeated, moderately paced quavers trudge across the page and on through the song, restless, intertwined at first with a dispiriting descending figure broken by the stabs of accents which in Schubert's manuscript are stabs of pain. In that same manuscript, Schubert has given the song tempo marking "moderate, at a walking pace" -- and that walking motion, like a dying fall, is the touchstone of the whole work: a winter journey, moving from one place to another but, in a sense, privileging motion above all else, the need to get away, to be a wanderer in the nineteenth century's sense (the Wandering Jew, the Flying Dutchman), on the road in the twentieth century's (Jack Kerouac, Highway 61)."
Skip introductions to 8 minutes 10 seconds for lecture. 8:10
Whow I noticed those in between song transitions almost right away! I feel so smart now :D
This was a wonderful, thought-provoking lecture.
Nicole Roberts
This is an excellent talk. I'm looking forward to Ian Bostridge's Winterreise at the Library of Congress even though I'm not usually a fan of his. Don't think I'll be able to avoid buying his book either.
Looking forward to hearing him sing in Vancouver tomorrow! :)
Thank you, watching from Spain, and totally agree that a humanities education is politically, actively being devalued. And it's culturally a shame, criminal even
1:17:27 - In his renditions of Schubert's song, Bostridge's pronunciation is almost flawless, but he really doesn't get "Werther" right. It's WER-ther, not wer-THER.
W.reise is a wonderful piece of art. I would like to hear it sung by a much younger voice than what one hears. usually (sort of pompous). Romantik was a very young movement - they were almost teen-agers
Listen to Jonas Kaufmann singing winterreise
I think you would be very pleased.
He sings like the Byronic hero
actually i like the winter reise sung by a deeper tenor/baritone voice, i picture the wandering men a little older/mature since he has this vast knowledge and i don't know they were about to marry and stuff, and how he laments about passed things. I love Dietrich Fischer-Diskaus versions!
+Oliver
Your opinion to Christa Ludwig's performance of Winterreise?
@@ungoliver listen to vickers, quasthoff, Hans hotte, prey, they sing it really good, especially Vickers
danke
23:20
This might be a stretch, but I have an interpretation in which the wanderer is already dead and is speaking to us as a ghost.
He laments that he died before he could we'd hisnlove and that the daughter moved on and married a more wealthy man after his demise.
Our journey is with him as a ghost haunting outside the house of his lover and retracing the journey upon which he died.
Der Greise Kopf is him meditating on how he would have liked to have died old rather than young.
Tauschubg, the will o' the wisp, could be the way in which he died. Led astray from the beaten path (Der Wegweiser) and ultimately to his untimely death.
The peaceful rest that is denied by the Linden Tree and the Cemetary, speaks to this his ghostly state of limbo.
The Leiermann at the end is a sort of ferryman figure who will take that wanderer to the afterlife, should he choose to go with him.
There are holes in this (Die Krahe) why would a crow follow a ghost? But this could be a memory of his first journey, upon which he died.
It's not the most sophisticated interpretation, but it's one I enjoy entertaining when listening to the song cycle.
32:11
1:00:46 - Couldn't he have been employed by the family as an apprentice, maybe her dad is a tailor or baker or something?
Oh God!
Tell us about your many talents and accomplishments, please. Petty and pedantic comments reveal more about you than about Ian Bostridge.
BRRRRR
STOP noise
Die Liebe liebt das Wandern. God made promiscuity.
Not necessarily. You can also take this as the cynical or resigned conclusion of the Ego in the «Winterreise» in view of what has happened to him.
H
Mildly interesting inasmuch a university setting can make it. Then he sings and
ruins everything .
what exactly do you dislike so much about his singing ?
James Frazier Not being a great singer he sings as he imagines a great lieder singer would sing and comes off artificial
full of insights to bolster his limitations, he embalms the work instead of bringing it to life .
.
Brandon Di Tieri As long as you believe he is of any worth is all that
matters .We have different standards ……...
Antek Milka Whow, really? How incredibly bitter and sour you are being... It's just a guy singing, and he has a beautiful singing voice.
Bitter & sour? This sounds like fiction. This person is simply & clearly expressing opinion, I read no bitterness into the comments at all. Perhaps you are being (unnecessarily?) defensive?
goddawful graduate student intellectual preening peacock for 20 minutes before we get to schubert, and then schubert through the filter of the over-written grad student's thesis, getting off his labored rounded sentences and check-list scholarly vocabulary and utterly pretentious footnotes and citations--(people in the hall actually sat through this...)--right now i'm at 31 minutes, waiting for gute nacht--ok, gute nacht was good--bad reverb and accompanist too loud, but that's sound issue with hall--so now i'm at 37 minutes and bostridge has returned to the lectern to talk grad student thesis-defense some more, and guys: i've heard enough--i mean, his recordings are out there, so if you want to hear him earnestly perform his thesis defense? be my guest--i'm outta here