Will eSports Ever Recover From This?
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- Опубліковано 15 січ 2024
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#gaming #games #twitch #overwatch - Ігри
the way they tried to grow that scene seemed so artificial, im not surprised it collapsed
It was so forced. They were determined to make it work wether ppl enjoyed it. Plus imo ow sucks as a spectator sport. Fun to play but not good to watch
I think Tasteless is right about the whole emulating real sports thing. For me, one of the biggest reasons I didn't want to watch OWL is because of the whole city based team league. It made it all feel so artificial, so forced and so ingenuine like a bunch of normie speculators were just moving into my hobby. One of the great things about esports compared to regular sports is that its a lot easier to follow a player rather than a team or brand. People rooted for individuals not brands or cities. Seeing X city play against Y city felt so lame and the sheer oversaturation of players made it difficult to follow the individual players. It was trying to turn esports into sports and I hate sports. I think most people felt the same way and that's why once the corporate money dried up there was no actual fanbase there to support it.
Yeah, esports has kinda always been a counter culture to sports. They missed that part
calling anyone a 'normie' burns my eyes
Ok, normie.@@akimbbo_upnext
The lesson here is that competition cannot be artificially created. Blizzard thought that calling their game a sport would make it so
without proper tournaments and rankings... leaderboard, rewards... without proper ranked functionality u cant have a pro scene. they can handpick their players but people are waking up to bs in sports and esports... if u do things right u dont even need to promote... people watch sports becasue they wanna see who is the best... all u ahve to do i organize community tournaments and have rankings/rewards. good social systems etc
If you allow people to create things, there would appear someome who would do it, form teams, create league etc. It just takes time and independent people... But blizzard didn't want to wait for it, and wanted to grab all profits for themself
I had 5k hours in Overwatch 1. I dropped the game permanently when the servers switched over to OW2. The main reason I dropped OW2 was due to how blizzard was handling Diablo 4 and Immortal. Despite what you said about Blizzard not being a monolith, I felt that the predatory economics and P2W culture that surrounded Diablo was unforgivable and would set a bad precedent that other Blizzard games would have to follow. I wasn't wrong. Now, you see people complaining about the outrageous prices that Blizzard is asking for cosmetic skins in OW and Diablo. The only way I felt I could protest was to simply not participate. Which makes me sad, because I legit loved OW. I legit miss it to this day.
I think the thing that always gets me with this is that if you look at all of the major sports leagues, they did not start as the NFL, MLB, Premier League, etc. They all started out as teams that organized into a league. The NFL was started by a bunch of professional teams in OH who decided to all play each other on a fixed schedule. The MLB was started by the combination of 2 separate baseball leagues, each of which being constructed by a bunch of professional teams who decided to play each other on a fixed schedule. The Premier League started from the already established English Football League, which was created back when teams decided to establish fixed schedules.
The only one you could argue that maybe broke this rule was the NBA, but even that started with the merger of a league that started by an organization of professional teams, and a league that was created from nothing only 2 years prior.
Basically, my point is that professional sports league either come about naturally, being the effort of professional teams to organize their schedules. Or they come about like the Overwatch league, do not last that long, and get merged into an already established professional league. No professional league has ever been able to maintain long term success if they were created to just be a professional league without any already established teams to support it. The only way they stick around is if an already established league buys them out.
NHL absorbed the WHA in the 1970s, to support your claim.
Was going to say the same thing. They tried to force how they wanted it to work before knowing if it would and adapting to what the game needed to succeed as an esport.
This is a basic problem with all corporate Epsorts. Tasteless sides with Blizzard against KeSPA a little harder than I'd like (although ofc he does know a ton more about the details than I do, n I think he's reacting against a 'bliz bad' no think) but the fact remains that the gold standard in esports growth is a model where intellectual property rights were ignored and a group that - with all it's faults - at least claimed to represent all stakeholders - players, map makers, tournaments organisers etc. - took charge over a group that only represents share holders.
To be as clear as I can, my position isn't that representing shareholders is evil. It's that only representing shareholders means shortsightedness and ignorance of details. IMO the next step for a strong esport scene is for a developer to give up the rights to their IP and (for like a 10 year contract) to an organisation that will be in charge of developing the scene and representing all stakeholders. Have a board where players/community are represented. Like a better - far more actually powerful - version of what SC2 is doing with it's balance council.
Although at the time I'm not sure Bliz was a limited company? Was it owned by vivendi at the time? Either way, principle remains, just it's an argument against only a different small group - developers - having outsized control of a league/events/scene.
exactly. Forced esports will never work. It has to grow organically.
We have a large number of people who have a large amount of money with the ability to massively influence big parts of society and yet, know actually very little about the product they control.
Ok, to whoever was coping in Tasteless' chat about OWL live events making money.
NO.
MonteCristo, you know, one of the inaugural casters for the OWL and one of the chief architects brought in by Nate Nanzer to help shape the league in the first place literally said the Homestands were NEVER PROFITABLE. The whole calculation that puts them to be , not even profitable, was working off hosting entire packed sports stadiums with 18,000 people attending. That shit was NEVER happening.
OWL couldn't even sell out seats in their their Burbank studios after year 1. There were NEVER going to fill entire stadiums.
Homestands were ALWAYS losing the orgs and the league TONS of money. Not having to host them during COVID literally extended the life of OWL by 2 years.
It's fine for finals or something but not so many games
It's bizarre to me that people legitimately thought that a game made and maintained by Blizzard in 2016 would be able to run as a successful esports title. Even if they bring out a game in a decent state, you can bet that they will destroy it, whether it's by inactivity or bad patches. I also really want to know what they were smoking with entire idea of the OWL. City based teams, home and away games... Yeah, that's what the average esports follower is really into. Genius!
And besides, I don't think even at this point have they learned that in order to have a game become an esports title, you need it to be a good, fun game that people want to to play competitively in the first place. You can't just say "Yo, this is the new Esport now!".
Ppl just wanted to play and have fun. Not watch a bad spectator game that was forced into being an esport
Blizzard still had a lot of goodwill at that point. They just finished Starcraft 2's final expansion. Overwatch itself was flying high. D3 was out but still. Warcraft 3 reforge didn't happen yet. The sexual harassment mess hadn't been discussed yet. And this is there creator of Starcraft and look at its esports scene (in 2016).
So yeah there was a lot of reason to believe Blizzard wouldn't screw everything up back then.
Also a lot of what we know about how esports scenes happen wasn't known to most in 2016. You saw Starcraft and SC2, saw how that picked up and figured the company used that knowledge to make it work better on OW.
A lot of knowledge of how companies work comes from the lessons of the 00s and 10s.
@@iandakariann I unfortunately can't agree with a lot of these assessments. Blizzard had already proved with SC2 that they can't be trusted to run their own show. They let WoL rot for like a year and a half because "oh well, Heart of the Swarm is, hopefully, gonna fix the issues with matchups like TvZ and PvZ anyway because of the new units!"
They saw the issues people had with Heart of the Swarm and saw a lot of the solutions different people had come up with. But because they were too stubborn and/or arrogant they went "Oh, nonono, we sorta agree on what the issues are but OUR solutions will be much better!".
They heard people crying out for some sort of support for the game, some people even wanted an in-game shop to come around for things like cosmetics and the likes. Yeah, they did that. Years and years after we had the huge rant on Inside the Game by Destiny that the hosts then made fun off (R.i.P. iNcontroL). And even then Blizzard only half-assed it.
WoW was in full-on Warlords of Draenor drought, Legion had just started to turn the opinions of people around again and in general, people weren't that high on it since Cata.
You also were years past Blizzard fucking up the SC2 esports infrastructure with the idea of the WCS format and its introduction to the scene.
And don't even get me started on how they handled Heroes of the Storm. Granted, that game was always going to have it rough, due to how big League and DotA were at the time (and obviously still are) but Heroes of the Storm was a mess as well.
Honestly, in my absolutely honest opinion, Starcraft 2 picked up in spite of Blizzard, not because of it. Companies like Justin.tv, Twitch, MLG, ESL, GomTV, the entire OG Star1 Korean infrastructure, and the personalities in and around the game did way more than Blizzard ever did.
@@AzelyaAurelion all of that happened within a few years on a company that's been seen as a golden child since the 90s. Yes, the outcry had already started but most gamers aren't going to forget decades of success. Go look at the Sports game and fps fans to see how much they can tolerate before they finally turn.
People who had dug deep into the rabbit hole saw the canaries but for most Blizzard was a company who had a few slip ups but can still pull out of it. So yeah, a lot of people still trusted them.
And let's be honest: a lot of people still do. Even after Diablo Immortal, D4 sold gangbusters. If Blizzard said they are going to release a StarCraft 3 this fall WITH it's own e sports League, despite what happened recently with SC2, despite the new rts games coming out, it'll be swarmed with people believing in them again. Or at least hoping it'll be back. Or perhaps Microsoft has already fixed them so it's ok.
@@iandakariannI'd just like to think that more people would look deeper into those sort of things but you are quite right with that last part too, which is sad.
But sure, I guess I am talking more about people who even more so than the average person should or could have known better. The fact that people like MonteCristo and DoA, for example, went like "Yeah, fuck Riot, btw, they are shady, don't pay commentators industry standards, come up with bad league and tournament formats, fuck up existing infrastructure seemingly on a whim, etc. pp." (a lot of their criticism regarding Riot was absolutely justified, ofc) and then turn around, sing Blizzard's praises and go balls deep for them was just too absurd for my personal liking.
To me, Esports peaked watching Tastosis cast SC2 on GomTV, Poopfeast420, the Day9 daily, State of the Game Podcast...
Something not mentioned here that I think is also important to reflect on is that Activision-Blizzard wrongly killed pro OW outside of the OWL well before the OWL was ready to begin play. And even if it had been ready, it was still such a wrong-headed move. It showed that Blizzard thought exclusivity was more important than the proliferation of its game, when the reality was completely the opposite.
They killed the game with their greed, I mean, Overwatch 2 is just proof of how ridiculously greedy they got, to release a sequel for a game that didn't need one, just for cash
Yeah people don't mention this much and almost think of OW esports as beginning with OWL but in fact the scene had a great start in 2016. The real dark ages happened throughout 2017 where they were C&Ding most of the tournament streams. A lot of that player pool went to other games like Fortnite(hot at the time) and never came back
Man, i have to say. I really liked the funny Tasteless from the SC2 casts. But serious Tasteless is also a pleasure to listen too. You have lots of knowledge about the industry and it shows! Keep it up!
2:15 As someone who kinda lost touch with DJWheat when he left casting SC2, it's nice to hear his nasally voice speaking truth to power lol. 4:22 There was so much content to watch at one point it was literally impossible to see it all. Even just the NASL was putting out so many VODs it was crazy. Good ol' iNcontroL doing a lot of those casts. Miss that guy.
Appreciating your longer-form content alongside your casts. Lovely mix overall, and it makes me enjoy your short, funnier stuff too. So cool!
What really killed OVerwatch as an Esport for me was the Time the OWL took to start. There were so many fun tournaments but blizzard stopped them all to build the OWL and than took 2 Years if i remamber correct where there where basically no Tournaments. In that time i fell completly off OW and forgot about it. Then when the OWL starts it was only at Night for me in Europe so i couldn't watch live and watching reruns just isn't the same. So at least for me the League died befor it even started and never got going again.
Spot on about the competitive viability of the game being untested. It's very similar to a MOBA but I think the qty of heroes (especially at launch) made the inclusion of a hero-ban system (which would help with meta-stagnation) a non-option
Even though fans, pros, and coaches actually asked to do this, Blizzard thought they knew better and just refused to listen. And we had very very long reign of GOATS meta, which was extremely boring to say the least. They actually believed that they could reach perfect balance, one of the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
2 years of mercy meta, 2 years of goats, 2 years of double shield
That entire balance team should have been blacklisted by the game industry with how bad they were
The city model is completely unnecessary for esports to be successful. The only advantage of the city-model is that a very small number of people make a shit-ton more money.
Keep up the React Content I love finding ways to support you. Huge fan for over a decade. Your a legend and your community/commentary is something we want and need!
Side note:
Dota 2 literally hired the original creator of Defender of The Aincents (IcyFrog) to be the lead developer based off his Wc3 mod
Nitpicking, but it's a specific version called Defense of the Ancients: All-Stars. There were multiple people involved in maintaining it over time, they eventually split off to make Heroes of Newerth and League of Legends. The guy that went to Valve is IceFrog.
for me the problem always was overwatch is a horrible esport to watch. There's clutter, there's a million colorful things blowing up on the screen at once, and the action is generally just a big charlie foxtrot. Compare this to a game like CS or even SC, which generally has more precise action that's very easy to read, that a skilled camera guy can hone in on, and the audience can watch and understand easily. To be successful an esport has to do more than attract people who play it, it has to attract people who've never touched the game in their life
Honestly think the only reason Overwatch league failed was the switch to UA-cam exclusively for awhile.
That killed gsl. Most things going to youtube lose a ton of audience.
Great video. Wonderful to hear your take on esports and really love the history you provide.
Really like your reactions. I mean, it's basically casting, now that I think about it. 🙂
I dont think the city-based model was necessarily the worst decision. The overall goal was to get as many live viewers as possible, which a city-based model can help. You can get more people to more live events, which will also increase merch sales.
Where I think they went wrong is they went too broad too quickly. Going instantly worldwide, especially if you're having a regular season/playoff model, was too much too fast. If they kept it regional with a worldwide playoff or tournament, they could have really exploded.
I think OWL was a very interesting experiment that people will look to for lessons on how to run competitive esports for some time.
It was figured out decades ago with Counter Strike. This comment section is wild, it's like no one has ever heard of it and thinks esports doesn't extend beyond Blizzard games.
@@premiumfruits3528 sure, I get that other esports exist, though I'm not super familiar with the CS scene. I'm saying OWL aimed to do some things that most esports scenes don't (city based teams, very frequent live events, seasonal play, etc) which didn't end up working, but it was an interesting and ambitious attempt.
@@sleeper1855 CS has frequent live events, majors bigger than anything OWL even got close to, and seasonal play, it doesn't do city based teams because that's completely asinine and I never understood why they thought that was a good idea, people cheer for their country because there are tier 1 teams from all over the world
Speaking of Blizzard being greedy. What's with the pricing of army skins in StarCraft 2. $50 for a low rez reskinned army is insane.
So random backroom info on the switch from twitch to youtube: the first contract between blizz/twitch had performance incentives built into the contract and they were generous because twitch had lower expectations for owl outside of premier events like the finals, like 5-10k concurrent for a regular season match. The problem came when OWL exceeded these numbers and started to hit those generous performance incentives. Twitch wasn't happy about this and when time came to renegotiate the contract twitch came around and said "you're not getting that kind of deal from us again, we lost a lot of money on that contract."
Meanwhile some people at youtube were trying to build out youtube gaming and saw OWL's numbers on twitch and thought it would be a good tentpole product to build around, and frankly probably heard about the pretty acrimonious negotiations between twitch and blizz. So they decided to send blizz an offer based partially on the idea that the audience was portable because OWL was advertised in-client and had a good conversion rate from client to twitch viewer.
In my opinion I think the problem was at twitch OWL was a big fish swimming in twitch's primary business segment, but at youtube they were a medium sized fish swimming in a new, experimental and non critical business segment, to stretch a very mixed metaphor. There were people working on exclusively OWL at twitch-- I dont think they got that treatment at youtube.
The video never talked about why youtube is bad as a platform for streaming esports. You can stream people chasing tornadoes on youtube so i dont see why esports should be bad?
Wow, a watch-along that actually adds valuable information to the original video!
For me the basic problem with esports is that it is based around games which arent around for tens or even hundreds of years like golf or football or ice hockey. The real world sports arent also dependant on one specific institution like EA or Activision for their survival. The popularity of a game might just drop so much over the time that basing a esports around it isnt really viable anymore. Also the big publishers arent doing esports for the love of sports but to advertise the games that they have to the wider public.As soon as that source of advertising becames too costly the esports scene will also probably wither away too.
I think the main problem with esports is that videogames lack longevity compared to actual sports. Football, basketball, baseball and hockey are all more than 100 years old, while most videogames die in a decade or two. Maintaining a stable fan base for a game is a lot more difficult when new ones come out every year to compete with it.
Nothing more blinding than an Overwatch match with fully stocked ults.
That was a great overview, I had seen a lot of this going down from afar but wasn't very into the scene as the league was rising.
you have successful teams FIRST then the league comes once the talent is there. you dont just create a league and then fill out teams. thats how every sports org has ever worked almost ever
I feel like Overwatch didn't make it as an e-sport because it's not viewable live. It's too fast to keep up, it's all over the place.. you either miss half of what's going on or you zoom out so much that it's all just unreadable because you only see the map with tiny heroes zooming around. You'd have to watch it in a slowmo replay where the important things are highlighted and zoomed in. The gameplay had a lot of competitive potential, it was skillbased, fast, fun.. but nothing for the fans.
Overwatch was an E-Sport? Somehow, I think e-sports will be fine.
slapping with that third strike background music! I really enjoyed the commentary
Okay so a few videos ago you pointed out the south koreans shut out blizzard but look who is gonna have esports team in the next five years. Blizz will have driven everything they manage into the ground.
I don't think Tasteless implied shutting out Blizzard was a mistake.
When I was scrolling through UA-cam I first read the title as "Will WiiSports Ever Recover From This?" 😂
the problem is its a video game and at the end of the day those are different than sports. People will stop losing interest in every professional video game eventually. Some last way longer than others, (SC1, LoL, DotA2), others will have smaller amounts of time in the spotlight (SC2 for example). Once the eyeballs leave, prize money dips and creates the behavioral sink.
literally all they had to do was copy valve. Throw money into small tournaments, put up a huge crowd funded prize pool for a yearly major. Easy money. But I guess Bobby had his eyes on another yacht
"At first, I thought it was going to be a logistical nightmare." Probably the best hesitation to have for any new big project.
I liked when some of the biggest tournaments, like MLG that you mentioned, had open brackets. It was possible to go from an unknown newcomer to a top 8 finish, or even better. That seems to be mostly gone now, and instead you have to win a bunch of smaller, almost irrelevant tournaments, to eventually make it to the real leagues... I thought open brackets were great and differentiated esports from sports, in a good way.
I always liked the city based teams concept as opposed to other esports.
It provided more through line and character. Geographic tensions and rivalries, storylines that players could swap in and out of as they rise or are traded.
Why would I care about Optic gaming or Cloud9 once the players change? City identity becomes something to ground the fandom.
On the current streaming scene, centering teams around cities seems to make little sense. There are no strong communities linked to cities that I know of.
But centering teams around big streamer *personalities* instead could work. It would be a bit volatile, since every other year a big streamer could flame out in some kind of scandal, so the league format would need to be able to adapt to that.
I said this in the first few months of OW: It's fun to play, but it's difficult to watch and follow. Eventually, the fun to play part stopped being true, and then it was doomed. If it were a good game, run by passionate game creators--and not by a greedy corporation, then it always had a chance. Unfortunately, it was neither a passion project, nor was it any good.
regarding too much output, at the height of sc2 until like 2016 or so there was a shitton going on that i could imagine being overwhelming for non fans. nasl, gsl, proleague, dreamhacks, esls, wcs/blizzcon, homestory cups and another dozen of one off events like lone star clash, ipl, mlg, red bull battle grounds
2:04 -- lol !! :D
22:12 the city-based model is DOA for esports. Traditional sports are coasting off of the fumes of actual local attachments going back a hundred years, back when people would have to go to games in person and root for the home team, and many of the players were local based. But it's a fiction, in today's globalized world there's no attachment of a player to a team or even a team to a city except for this harking back to a tradition. Add on the fact that nobody watches esports for what the player himself is doing, it's all about what the player accomplishes on screen, and you don't need to be in person to see that. the whole in-person aspect of esports is just for the camraderie of being with fellow fans and maybe seeing the player celebrities themselves. Nothing local about that.
I love how they talk about OW being a relatively new concept... and completely gloss over the fact TF2 had been a thing for over a decade at that point.
i feel that comparison between FGC (grassroots with corporate support) and most other esports (more often than not purely corporate) is often mentioned these days
the city model was great for merch btw
as someone who used to watch, season 1 was peak. Once goats started, the hero bridget (hard countered dps essentially iirc), all the extra teams, etc. as someone in the video mentioned it just didn't make sense to try and keep up with the league. Watching random teams you don't care about never die tank v tank with zero outplay killed viewership (at least for me personally). It also made it less fun to play so I just went back to other games. Say what you want about Riot, but at least they know when a balance change is needed and tend to act in a timely manner.
It is sad because I think the format of the game had huge potential. It essentially blended 2 genres (tactical shooters + mobas) so the overall reach and cross over was massive.
hell yea! love this type of content!
People love the 5v5 team concept.
The base idea was good.
Thank you for your insight tassels!
Money killed eSports, greed killed eSports
imo ow was a bad spectator sport compared to others And it was to forced and artificial. Alot of players loved playing but didnt care for the esport. They just wanted to be next league of legends
Overwatch was always too boring and too low skill ceiling. Also it’s hard to follow so it’s not fun to watch.
Exactly
I thought that implementing a city model into OWL was the most idiotic idea especially when almost all of the players aren’t even from those cities let alone live in those cities. It was like, what was the point in even having city teams if that was the case. 🤦♂️
Great video as always!
I was just going to go watch the original, but then I saw this video was about twice as long.
Good to see more videos like this. Ow2 biggest disappointment and joke in a long time. They didn't do jack for those years. It's basically just a few patches of content with a few reworks
esports have to happen naturally, not by a studio shoving it into the game.
Bad game, bad developers, bad management, bad company.
It is amusing seeing djwheat go from casting CGS to only have a repeat later with OWL 20 years later
tekken is also huge in korea
i feel like the games that fail in esport are the ones who are made with the idea that its going to be the next ''big one''
its like trying to make olympic swimming as nba or nfl - people just wont care cuz the sport is booring
broodwar and cs made esports massive cuz people joined in to watch of the game not the hype or marketing
and thats where the big developers fail - they think that they can reinvent the weel, but once the hype dies down, so the fanbase leaves unlike the games that has their own fanbase and then the marketing comes after
Don't forget Activision forced similar changes on Call of Duty but the league did not fail because the competitive CoD community formed organically in the MLG days. CoD was historically a 4v4 game and then it went to 5v5 because Activision said so then they reversed the decision like a year or two later same for being bundled in the move to UA-cam. They even still have the remnants of that awful city based model.
Overwatch just doesn't work as an eSport at all. It feels impossible to understand what's going on as a viewer because you have 12 players jumping frantically around and you either jump between tiny POV snapshots that show very little of the overall action, or see a zoomed out 3rd person perspective that loses the skill of the player. The eSports that succeed are ones that translate well to viewing like Starcraft, League, CS:GO, DOTA, Melee, etc, even if the games are more complex than Overwatch. It didn't help that Blizzard basically abandoned the game for years to work on a pitiful expansion.
the grass roots leages b4 owl were so fun to watch, i get y they wanted to control their esports scene but GD did they bumble the game. needed more balance patches more often. more maps put out faster, ect. jeff wanting the game to be more accessible juxopposed to blizzard wanting it to market it as an espot tore it appart. was such a culture force upon its release. it one of those times when blizz thought their shit couldn't stink and it ended up biting them in the ass. tbh the whole thing should have been more based on player feedback. its too bad such a great opportunity was pissed away
Any game that has balance issues will lose players. Balance is the biggest reason for players leaving games
I was really looking forward to project: Titan. Was playing WoW but prefer sci-fi to fantasy, starcraft to warcraft. The online chatter tried to some it up as 'World of starcraft'. I was so damn disappointed when overwatch was announced to be what it became.
Feels like Blizzard was always playing catch up in e-sports. SC2 was the biggest when it came out, but it lost steam over time, and eventually got BTFO by LoL, then DotA2 surpassed it, and Counter-Strike, and SC2 never caught up. Heroes of the Storm was only ever a distant third place in the MOBA scene, despite Blizzard pouring massive resources into that game. Then Overwatch came, and it was huge. And of course Blizzard couldn't manage Overwatch to keep it going, and it's crashing and burning now.
Samito sounds exactly like DJ Wheat.
As long as the game creators control the leagues they will always have a shelf life,
Still a lot of potential. I really hope that MIcrosoft sees this and fund the *RIGHT PEOPLE* to work on it to bring it back
Wonderful commentary
That dude Gauntletwizard trying to goad u into a question about whether you believe in UBI, "living wage", "players unions" at 13:58 but Tasteless just ignores his ass. W move Tassels. what a weirdie that dude is
It set esports back 20 years
its just not a good spectator sport game. how do you properly spectate a first person game with 10 different perspectives? the interest wasnt there because its just not that fun to watch
That imo is the biggest thing. Its terrible to watch compared to other games and alot of players didn't care about watch owl. It's just not a good spectator game and that always was a big problem. I didn't need to be an esport just forced into it
I strongly believe they went wrong from the moment the institutionalized Competitive play. They should have worked to support independent organisations for competitive Overwatch matches and build a strong infrastructure around that, orgs like Apex and so on. They made it totally unfeasable and uninteresting for major event organisers to try on Overwatch e-sport.
teams and franchises literally dont add anything to esports. there's no infrastructure needed, no overhead, it should just be grassroots. let people who are good at games play against other people who are also good. thats about it
i think the problem was the game, you cant just force a game to be viral or popular, fps games suck, its not just the patches or the meta, fps is just mostly camping
its the same problem with guns in real life, they are too powerful and have wayyyy too much range which makes fighting for fun impossible
Ngl an Overwatch MOBA sounds pretty fire
idk about the overwatch league,but as long as starcraft exists,there will be starcraft fans who make starcraft esports :)
Oh damn! Doa! Him and Monte Christo were the only casting duo I'd put along side Tasteosis. Where O WHERE is the footage of those 2 casting the SC2/BW hybrid proleague?? First time they ever cast together right?
OW2 was just released to add microtransactions, right? They couldn't sell heroes in OW1... or anything.
Esports and Sports are failling because they dont organize Tournaments and have actual rankings. They stage and handpick their players. even balance whole sports around em or esports like smite pro league. when u turn sports and content creation into a huge bussiens it losts its meaning. they sleep on most of their playerbase. 50-70%. International players, EU players, Arena palyers, console players... yet still call theirselv champions... lame
everything up to 3:20 is based way after the main problem.
BW and football existed as a games and people wanted to play them before someone thought to organize competitive play. Nobody, and by nobody I obviously don't literally mean nobody, but nobody compared to BW or football, wanted to play OW competitively. Even the game itself added the 6th player to make it more casual by protecting poorly performing players in the crowd (sic), (among other casual mechanics like the initial no hero limit).
Never in the history of games since Greece or Aztec empire has anyone been pushing as hard as blizzard to make everyone interested in playing with they ball they invented.
That's why it wasn't a disaster to see OWL crash to anyone who understood this, because disasters are unpredictable and this was completely predictable from the moment OW original release notes were published. It failed because the demand for the league and for the game was not real.
Easiest recovery OF ALL TIME.
holy fuck djweat has become an old man
OW Artosis didn't make \m/
was there ever any good viewership for overwatch?
And to think they gave up on Heroes of the Storm the way they did...
Overwatch failed because the game wasn't that good and people didn't stick with it.
Yeah, Starcraft isn't the most popular game out there, because of it's minimum skill requirement, and how hard it is to be 'good' at it, but games like that also have diehard fanbases that do not move on easily.
Even CS & League still have a long way to go before they've been around as long as Starcraft has between the BW & SC2's esports scenes.
I think it also had a lot to do with Blizzard being the people that put it out, and Activision buying them killing things like this as well. It seemed like AV didn't want to spend money sponsoring ESports the same way Blizzard did before it was 'merged'/bought, however you wanna say it.
Sidenote: I miss DoA & Monte so much from their days on Korean League of Legends & other games that I actually watched the streams of.
I remember that Megan Kelly interview. She was so thirsty for Jake.
I dont any games success or failure in the space makes any difference. If a new game comes out well suited to competition/viewership and there is a audience then there will be a need for events etc. Overwatch is a mediocre game and it's awful to watch so who cares.
A bunch of potential investors in all of esports were burned on investing into this, they will think twice before taking that risk again. It does effect all game's competitive scenes and potential
Activision-Blizzard is a dogwater company as far as competitive esports is concerned. Just greedy and moronic. They limited good and proven TO's from running events and thought they knew what they were doing. This isn't even to mention everywhere else they've dropped the ball.
As bad as Blizzard culture was, criminally and morally bad, it may have been good for an all female staff to be building the game. OW is a different type of shooter than a standard shooter where the character personalities aren’t really developed.
The copium from those who got interviewed in the Score video was a bit much. For anyone interested Richard Lewis published a lot more indepth info on all the failings of Blizzard. TheScore really did skim over it and it seems like tasteless is just going by public info and maybe talking to some of his blizzard buddies
Any of you guys actually follow Overwatch esports?
Wolf was casting it. One of the best.
Like the NFL huh?