Very interesting test. I thought about getting a future light jacket for snowboarding but decided otherwise. The main reason was the price and my doubts about the durability. I've had many different snowboard jackets over the years and they were all waterproof in most conditions. But the gore tex was always the most durable material. It's nearly impossible to destroy it in the snow regardless of the falls and the slithering. Other materials worn out pretty quickly.
Gore-tex actually has a plethora of different variations such as Paclite and Goretex-Pro. With in these variations, there are even more sub sects, like Paclite Plus and goretex pro has Most Rugged, most breathable and stretch technology. These are all 3 different types of fabric that can go into a single jackets construction. This is all on top of plain old goretex as well.
I think the point being made is that Goretex is basically e-PTFE membrane + additional fabrics and the additional fabrics are actually what account for the majority of the difference. E.g paclite is a 2.5L fabrication, traditional is 2L, Pro is 3L etc… While all futurelight is 3L. Though I’m sure GoreTex probably does vary it’s membranes also, they don’t really allude to this being the case.
Just been reading up on this like a geek so this is really useful, thanks. I think what would also help asa video test would be to try the same air experiment but instead of using air pressure try steam from a kettle with no pressure to see if it goes thru either ( on the thinking that there's no big air pressure inside your jacket pushing out air in the real world)? I fancied one of their tents but the first chap from Norway to leave feedback has panned it so I'm now really confused ! A
Andrew Park That’s a good point about the no pressure inside a normal jacket. Having tested both materials now, I can say that the Futurelight is indeed more breathable. I’ve got a review on the flight series jacket specifically if you wanna check it out.
jonaswtf if you don’t properly wash your gore tex products the DWR doesn’t repel water off the face fabric. Also, the pores of the gore tex get clogged with skin oils, lotion, sun screen, and so on, causing your jacket to not breathe and trapping your body moisture in the jacket making it feel as if water is getting in when it’s just your sweat
You never see anything from Toray Dermizax whether NX L2 or NX L3 or AX. Can you shed some light on Dermizax and how the technology works, and whether it performs well against Gore Pro and eVent? Thanks. Also, where di you shoot this video? It's gorgeous!
yeah you are right. they test it in this video and show how goretex does not allow air through, but will allow steam through meaning it is breathable while while being wind proof. ua-cam.com/video/BD-aAFaWerk/v-deo.html
eitamar hoshen I’m probably not going to make a full video on that but I put the fabric over a flexible bottle and then put the clear container over the material. I poured water through a hole in the top and then squeezed the flexible bottle.
You are wrong on gore Tex the have paclite which is the thinnest and is used for weight savings the have gore Tex active which is for athlete’s they have gore Tex pro which is not new but they updated it in 2021 where it’s WAYY more breathable and they have gore Tex 2 layer and gore Tex 3 layer and with each one of those the a np75 or a number like that which is how thick or how abrasive it can be or is among a bunch of other factors
I mention in the video that Gore-tex is Gore-tex. There are actually two versions: Pro and Active. The Goretex used in the video is Pro which is slightly thicker than the active. (3 vs 2 layers) Sorry for the error.
You say that then use the Norvan as an example - Norvan uses Gore-Tex Shakedry. Which is probably the only worthwhile comparison in terms of fabric. The Flight has the lowest HH of the range and highest breathability vs Gore Pro which has the highest HH and mid tier breathability for their range (Active and Shakedry being more breathable). It's a cool review but kind of apples to oranges - If you manage to get your hands on a shakedry jacket, I'd be interested.
@@jamesferguson8199 Right that's what I was trying to explain in my comment. This is great information thank you. And yes, I don't have any shakedry fabric. If I did the comparison would have been much better. Thank you!
Nuffers Gear That’s fair dude - I was just saying there are actually about 4 types of Gore-Tex water proof fabrics (rather than two) for reference However you’re right in that Active and ShakeDry are probably the only worthwhile comparisons for running. Also both Active and Pro are technically 3L (Active - ShakeDry is 2L) - Not trying to bust balls it just helps understanding fabric properties/performance, plus it’s confusing as all hell. Love the content, think I’m about convinced to pull the trigger on a Futurelight jacket anyway.
James Ferguson no worries I totally appreciate the information. I’ve heard before that the 2 layer Gore-Tex is actually less breathable because they have to amp it up to get the same waterproofing in just two layers. Have you ever heard this or is it total bogus?
Nuffers Gear Nuffers Gear - Don’t worry there is TL;DR: So Original/Standard Gore-Tex is 2 layer in the sense that the face fabric has a membrane backing (aka it will need have a drop liner - the mesh that protects the membrane) - In this example yes you sacrifice RET and MVTR for the sake of HH and durability of the membrane, also DWR performance is super important. The use of ‘layers’ rarely has on impact on the waterproofing as the membrane is always just the one layer. However having 3 or 2.5 layers does allow you to be more creative as the membrane has better protection. (By trying to simplify their range Gore-Tex have actually made this discussion much more difficult - They don’t distinguish between 2 and 2.5 layers anymore - e.g. paclite would traditionally be considered 2.5L). All that being said, Shakedry turned everything on its head by having a ‘more durable’ external membrane with a material backing - I don’t think anyone would argue that this is by some way the most breathable shell Gore have ever produced. The reason this has never been done is because membranes are inherently fragile (though shakedry is more durable than most) which in turn means you can’t use these jackets with a pack etc otherwise they will break. Also you have to worry about DWR performance generally as, as soon as your outer fabric ‘wets out’ you loose all breathability etc anyway. By eternalising the membrane you negate the need for DWR as the outer fabric is now hydrophobic/waterproof by nature. TL;DL Generally, yes, 2L performance is worse due to manufacturers having to find ways of making them more durable. However, Gore-Tex sacrificed durability for outright performance in Active ShakeDry making it overall the most breathable fabric they produce. Think RET/MVTR vs HH/Durability the more you attempt to achieve on one side the more you loose on the other (this is grossly oversimplified but generally acceptable).
Hi I'm Emanuele. I'm TNF passionate collector and I often test on field these garnments. I've red that goretex can reach 28000 mm about waterproof capability and 20000 g/m2/24 for the breathabililty (maybe about the top of its series). For FutureLight up to 15000 mm about waterproofness and 13000 g/m2/24 for breathability... maybe we are also at the start of the progression of this new material for TNF. Maybe the performance may grow in the future ... and overcome goretex. PS For the touring jackets is also important the softness and elasticity 🤘😉
I've read an interview with NF about Futureligt, and they mentioned "some compromise" on waterproofness compared to basic Gore-Tex 20,000mm, but an estimated breathability of "around 80,000". Make of that what you will.
Looking to get the exact jacket you compared here but keen to know how waterproof this futurelight is first in a heavy downpour- that's key for me! Also what was the fit like?
It’s basically identical, they only have one ‘thickness’ of membrane though. Also if I’m not mistaken the amount of stretch is different. I’m under the impression that Futurelight is the only one of this kind that incorporates stretchy seam tape.
@@exh8049 the interstellar is the only ascent shell I have tried but it was just at an outdoor show. In my part of the world Futurelight is much easier to get your hands on. Seems like a great option though and in theory the performance should be pretty similar despite the difference in price if you’re in the US.
TBH it was compared in the test to the some Gore-tex pants I have, but it's the same type of Gore-tex you can find on the Patagonia Pluma or PowSlayer Jackets. There's been some in depth conversations about types of Gore-tex and how they compare to Futurelight in the other comments. Lots of info!
Thanks for your assessment of the new jacket. Could you talk more about the waterproofness? Does it wet out? For example do you feel the cold more when soaking wet than when soaking wet in the stiffer GTX materials. Cheers for any thoughts.
Jakuchu Ito I’m going to do a full review on the jacket specifically. From my tests though I’d doesn’t wet out. I haven’t had it get wet and windy but I could see that getting colder. I’ll address that all in my full review.
normal goretex shouldn't be air permeable. i saw other testings there are no bubbles. you mentioned it is a gtx pro so I guess only the proshell with 3layers is air permeable
@@madintheattic are sure that's not only supposed to work for "steam" / warm moist air, i.e. what happens when you sweat? AFAIK that's also the reason why GoreTex jackets get less breathable when they get wet?
"Squoze"
Cool video though! Love the air experiment
Skyler VanDerwerken ah yes the ol’ grammar. Thanks for the correction!
This could have been like 3 minutes long. Guess it was posted in the great 10 minute mark era of UA-cam, considering the 10:00 length.
Very interesting test. I thought about getting a future light jacket for snowboarding but decided otherwise. The main reason was the price and my doubts about the durability.
I've had many different snowboard jackets over the years and they were all waterproof in most conditions. But the gore tex was always the most durable material. It's nearly impossible to destroy it in the snow regardless of the falls and the slithering. Other materials worn out pretty quickly.
Gore-tex actually has a plethora of different variations such as Paclite and Goretex-Pro. With in these variations, there are even more sub sects, like Paclite Plus and goretex pro has Most Rugged, most breathable and stretch technology. These are all 3 different types of fabric that can go into a single jackets construction. This is all on top of plain old goretex as well.
I think the point being made is that Goretex is basically e-PTFE membrane + additional fabrics and the additional fabrics are actually what account for the majority of the difference.
E.g paclite is a 2.5L fabrication, traditional is 2L, Pro is 3L etc… While all futurelight is 3L.
Though I’m sure GoreTex probably does vary it’s membranes also, they don’t really allude to this being the case.
Oh, what I would love a comparison Futurelight - Dermizax and Gore-tex - Dermizax done the same way.
You can breathe through the material if you want to quickly test breath-ability! Nice test
This was helpful and answered a lot of my questions! Thanks!!
Great Video ! What are the devices that you used to do the test ? Thanks
Just been reading up on this like a geek so this is really useful, thanks. I think what would also help asa video test would be to try the same air experiment but instead of using air pressure try steam from a kettle with no pressure to see if it goes thru either ( on the thinking that there's no big air pressure inside your jacket pushing out air in the real world)?
I fancied one of their tents but the first chap from Norway to leave feedback has panned it so I'm now really confused ! A
Andrew Park That’s a good point about the no pressure inside a normal jacket. Having tested both materials now, I can say that the Futurelight is indeed more breathable. I’ve got a review on the flight series jacket specifically if you wanna check it out.
Futurelight makes thinker or lighter versions by a technique called nano-spinning of the PU.
How do you know which version is the shoes ?
What's the hydrostatic head claimed for each jacket?
In my experience, gtx stops being waterproof after some use. That would be interesting to see with futurelight
It doesn’t, it’s just the DWR
@@MFSHECKS Then the waterproofness as less to do with the actual fabric, and more to do with the DWR being used?
jonaswtf if you don’t properly wash your gore tex products the DWR doesn’t repel water off the face fabric. Also, the pores of the gore tex get clogged with skin oils, lotion, sun screen, and so on, causing your jacket to not breathe and trapping your body moisture in the jacket making it feel as if water is getting in when it’s just your sweat
Every membrane degrades after a while, especially in shoes, because it's more friction there. I found Gore-tex to be especially flimsy.
GoreTex never looses it’s waterproofing unless it’s torn
You never see anything from Toray Dermizax whether NX L2 or NX L3 or AX. Can you shed some light on Dermizax and how the technology works, and whether it performs well against Gore Pro and eVent? Thanks. Also, where di you shoot this video? It's gorgeous!
Good video. But I love my Arcteryx Gore-Tex down insulated jacket !
Can MTB hey gore-tex is still awesome!
Worth noting that easier air permeability may mean a less windproof garment, however that's just a theory of mine, no actual experience!
yeah you are right. they test it in this video and show how goretex does not allow air through, but will allow steam through meaning it is breathable while while being wind proof.
ua-cam.com/video/BD-aAFaWerk/v-deo.html
really helpful video
Hi, can you please show and explain how you made the experiment?
eitamar hoshen I’m probably not going to make a full video on that but I put the fabric over a flexible bottle and then put the clear container over the material. I poured water through a hole in the top and then squeezed the flexible bottle.
You are wrong on gore Tex the have paclite which is the thinnest and is used for weight savings the have gore Tex active which is for athlete’s they have gore Tex pro which is not new but they updated it in 2021 where it’s WAYY more breathable and they have gore Tex 2 layer and gore Tex 3 layer and with each one of those the a np75 or a number like that which is how thick or how abrasive it can be or is among a bunch of other factors
What is the Gore-Tex quality in the North Face 1990 Retro Mountain Jacket?
I mention in the video that Gore-tex is Gore-tex. There are actually two versions: Pro and Active. The Goretex used in the video is Pro which is slightly thicker than the active. (3 vs 2 layers) Sorry for the error.
You say that then use the Norvan as an example - Norvan uses Gore-Tex Shakedry. Which is probably the only worthwhile comparison in terms of fabric.
The Flight has the lowest HH of the range and highest breathability vs Gore Pro which has the highest HH and mid tier breathability for their range (Active and Shakedry being more breathable).
It's a cool review but kind of apples to oranges - If you manage to get your hands on a shakedry jacket, I'd be interested.
@@jamesferguson8199 Right that's what I was trying to explain in my comment. This is great information thank you. And yes, I don't have any shakedry fabric. If I did the comparison would have been much better. Thank you!
Nuffers Gear That’s fair dude - I was just saying there are actually about 4 types of Gore-Tex water proof fabrics (rather than two) for reference However you’re right in that Active and ShakeDry are probably the only worthwhile comparisons for running.
Also both Active and Pro are technically 3L (Active - ShakeDry is 2L) - Not trying to bust balls it just helps understanding fabric properties/performance, plus it’s confusing as all hell.
Love the content, think I’m about convinced to pull the trigger on a Futurelight jacket anyway.
James Ferguson no worries I totally appreciate the information. I’ve heard before that the 2 layer Gore-Tex is actually less breathable because they have to amp it up to get the same waterproofing in just two layers. Have you ever heard this or is it total bogus?
Nuffers Gear Nuffers Gear - Don’t worry there is TL;DR:
So Original/Standard Gore-Tex is 2 layer in the sense that the face fabric has a membrane backing (aka it will need have a drop liner - the mesh that protects the membrane) - In this example yes you sacrifice RET and MVTR for the sake of HH and durability of the membrane, also DWR performance is super important.
The use of ‘layers’ rarely has on impact on the waterproofing as the membrane is always just the one layer. However having 3 or 2.5 layers does allow you to be more creative as the membrane has better protection.
(By trying to simplify their range Gore-Tex have actually made this discussion much more difficult - They don’t distinguish between 2 and 2.5 layers anymore - e.g. paclite would traditionally be considered 2.5L).
All that being said, Shakedry turned everything on its head by having a ‘more durable’ external membrane with a material backing - I don’t think anyone would argue that this is by some way the most breathable shell Gore have ever produced. The reason this has never been done is because membranes are inherently fragile (though shakedry is more durable than most) which in turn means you can’t use these jackets with a pack etc otherwise they will break. Also you have to worry about DWR performance generally as, as soon as your outer fabric ‘wets out’ you loose all breathability etc anyway. By eternalising the membrane you negate the need for DWR as the outer fabric is now hydrophobic/waterproof by nature.
TL;DL Generally, yes, 2L performance is worse due to manufacturers having to find ways of making them more durable. However, Gore-Tex sacrificed durability for outright performance in Active ShakeDry making it overall the most breathable fabric they produce.
Think RET/MVTR vs HH/Durability the more you attempt to achieve on one side the more you loose on the other (this is grossly oversimplified but generally acceptable).
I knew exactly where that was!I used to run there! Thanks for the info!
Haha that's awesome, go Utah!!!
Thank you!
I'm going to have to pick up a future Light jacket I recently picked up 3 Nike Gore-Tex jacket.
I bought the 1990 Mountain Jacket with Futurelight last light 🤩
hin0420 how does it feel compared with the gore?
I still have question in my mind ...why future light made by recycled fabric i definitely want wirgin fabric
Thank you for the test, it would be better if there are more test videos。
Hi I'm Emanuele. I'm TNF passionate collector and I often test on field these garnments. I've red that goretex can reach 28000 mm about waterproof capability and 20000 g/m2/24 for the breathabililty (maybe about the top of its series). For FutureLight up to 15000 mm about waterproofness and 13000 g/m2/24 for breathability... maybe we are also at the start of the progression of this new material for TNF. Maybe the performance may grow in the future ... and overcome goretex. PS For the touring jackets is also important the softness and elasticity 🤘😉
hi，28000 mm ， 20000 g/m2/24 is from gtx or gtx pro？？2L or 3L？？
I've read an interview with NF about Futureligt, and they mentioned "some compromise" on waterproofness compared to basic Gore-Tex 20,000mm, but an estimated breathability of "around 80,000". Make of that what you will.
Nice test, can you specify what type of goretex and what model the patagonia was ?
Looking to get the exact jacket you compared here but keen to know how waterproof this futurelight is first in a heavy downpour- that's key for me! Also what was the fit like?
k c I’ll have a full review of the jacket up in the next couple days here and I answer both of these questions. Stay tuned.
@@nuffersgear7315 nice look forward to it! Thanks for the effort really appreciate it!
Squoze lol!! I did like the review!
blair elander yeah yeah yeah I’m aware. Haha
durability ?
Hi, how does ascentshell membrane relate to future light?
It’s basically identical, they only have one ‘thickness’ of membrane though.
Also if I’m not mistaken the amount of stretch is different. I’m under the impression that Futurelight is the only one of this kind that incorporates stretchy seam tape.
@@jamesferguson8199 Ok, thank you for your answer ;) BTW Have you ever tested any ascentshell jacket? (for example from Outdoor Research)
@@exh8049 the interstellar is the only ascent shell I have tried but it was just at an outdoor show. In my part of the world Futurelight is much easier to get your hands on.
Seems like a great option though and in theory the performance should be pretty similar despite the difference in price if you’re in the US.
@@jamesferguson8199 Ok, thanks again!
my favourite bit was when you squoze the bottle
What is the goretex jacket you compared the north face future light too?
TBH it was compared in the test to the some Gore-tex pants I have, but it's the same type of Gore-tex you can find on the Patagonia Pluma or PowSlayer Jackets. There's been some in depth conversations about types of Gore-tex and how they compare to Futurelight in the other comments. Lots of info!
Did you... Did you just say "squoze?"
🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for your assessment of the new jacket.
Could you talk more about the waterproofness? Does it wet out? For example do you feel the cold more when soaking wet than when soaking wet in the stiffer GTX materials.
Cheers for any thoughts.
Jakuchu Ito I’m going to do a full review on the jacket specifically. From my tests though I’d doesn’t wet out. I haven’t had it get wet and windy but I could see that getting colder. I’ll address that all in my full review.
Great review, thanks. Please let me know if any of tested fabrics - Gore tex of Futureligh - leaked some during your test?
Kacper no both fabrics were very waterproof, no noticeable leaking.
What goretex type is it? Pro or normal. What denier
daan stam Pro. And as far as the denier goes I believe it’s 70. Futurelight denier varies from product to product.
Hi, have you ever tested how long the material will resist before water gets through?
squoze
Future light in boots is useless! It cannot cope with wet grass or plants it seems.
normal goretex shouldn't be air permeable. i saw other testings there are no bubbles. you mentioned it is a gtx pro so I guess only the proshell with 3layers is air permeable
he's "pushing" air from INSIDE. The jackets are windproof (and waterproof) : pushing air from inside it's supposed to show breathability (supposed to)
@@madintheattic are sure that's not only supposed to work for "steam" / warm moist air, i.e. what happens when you sweat? AFAIK that's also the reason why GoreTex jackets get less breathable when they get wet?
sqwOZE
GJ
Poor lighting in the room and poor sound quality as well.