The fascinating thing about this, is the fact the UN has consistently gone against the wishes of the Mayotte population to remain a part of france. So much for supporting self determination.
Eh.... the situation is similar to the Donbas in Ukraine. If you populate an area with colonists, then those colonists vote to remain, does that really count? The answer is no. No it doesn't.
@@jeffmorris5802 that ain't the question in Dombass. The rebels always where Russian funded and where originally indipendentist not pro joining Russia. The Dombass separatist could have rebeled for thousend different reasons if Russia wanted It to be so.
@@jeffmorris5802 But they aren't colonists. At least not 90%. From what I remember, Mayotte used to be the political center of the Comoros under French rule. This meant, that the population had more power and a closer connection to France than the people on the other islands, leading them to reject independence. Donbas is a very different story and it is actually unclear if a majority of the people of the Donbas actually ever supported becoming a part of Russia.
Self-determination is one of UN's values but so is territorial integrity. It's not like any arbitrary region has the right to self-determination just because a majority of the population there want it. A single family can't demand that their house and lot becomes a sovereign country even if they all agree on that. So what kind of regions of populations do have a right to self-determination? Solve that problem decisively and you'll be deserving of the Nobel Peace Prize.
I'm more pro self determination than forced integration of previous colonial possessions into new countries. Mayotte in my opinion obviously wants to be part of France, they should not be forced to join another country at this point.
This video got crazier by the minute. Learning about the UN pressure going directly against the wishes of Mayotte's population, the Comoros government's crazy declarations about Mayotte (and the 270,000 inhabitants living there) being theirs and then finally the waves of illegal immigrants (which imo sounds exactly like what Belarus did to Poland/Germany a couple of years ago) has me shaking my head. It takes a lot and I mean A LOT to make France sound like the good guy in colonialism related matter, but I have to hand it to the Comoros government and the UN. They went above and beyond the call of duty and actually made France and even Le Pen look like the knights in shining armor lmao.
Considering that the majority of the island's population is black, African, and Muslim, what cultural, ethnic, or religious ties could there be between the island and France?
You should wonder who got the right to vote, who was awarded the French nationality. Half of the population is Comorian and some of them is living in Mayotte since decades. They don't have the right to vote.
Always interesting to see foreigners talk about the french overseas territories. Most people tend to forget that WE WANT to remain part of france (I'm from Reunion Island btw). Most Mahorais are coming to my island because comorians are turning Mayotte into a shithole with gangs dismembering people with machetes. Mayotte CHOSE multiple times to remain part of France, they are the department that votes the most for the Rassemblement National. The Mahorais take being called a comorian as an INSULT, they don't have to pay for the comoros being an awful place to live.
I think I made all this VERY clear in the video. And while France’s actions are in fact contrary to general principles of international law, I deliberately highlighted the complex moral and political questions at play.
@@Robespierre-lI well the reasons to be part of france are many and i can't speak on behalf of all the islands so i will try to give explanations as to why my island (Reunion) wanted to stay french. First of all there were no native on the island, no one lived there before french mutineers and later pirates called the island home. Then when we became a colony most of the land was bought by rich french aristocrats who set up plantations and brought slaves and workers from all the colonies (India, Africa, Indochina, China, the Caribeans etc) so the island don't really have an entity prior to colonization. We are pretty patriotic here, most people goes to the army (half of my class in college ended up enlisting for exemple), we love france, we are the ones who voices the most our concerns to the direction the country is heading, this can be seen during every presidential elections. also there's the fact that we couldn't survive without france, we are a tiny little island in the middle of nowhere without ressources (we were a plantation colony, nothing more) the island is too small to sustain the population with food, for exemple during WW2 there was a famine here due to lack of food coming from france, and back then the population was small, nowadays we are almost a million.
The problems we face here today have more to do with the complete incompetence of the government to deal with anything, Macron don't even listen to the people living 5km from him so he won't listen to people living more than 11000km from his fucking palace. We basically have the same problems that metropolitan france face, its just 5 times worse because the government doesn't care about anything. truth is we love france more than it loves us, more than it love itself in fact. As for the other islands and Guyane i think they have similar reasons but i won't speak for them
Independent Comorians are very proud of their national identity, even though many young people come to work in France like the inhabitants of Mayotte. They are offended if they are referred to as Mahorais, and consider themselves freer. Unfortunately, no one wants to invest in the Comorian islands because of the political instability, which has no remedy. The African Union is gradually gaining a strong foothold on the three islands, and is calling for Mayotte to be reintegrated, but I don't know if that's going to be an improvement.
The people of Mayotte have voted routinely to be part of France, so I don't see the argument for transferring them to the poorer and less developed Comoros. It just doesn't make much sense to me. If the people wanted to join the Comoros, they should, but clearly, they dont (Ps I'm irish)
Well, that last bit was a bit of a kicker! :-) But of course Ireland is another very good example of this problem. What happens when you have decolonisation running up against the self-determination of a particular group that wants to stay a part of the colonial state. In this case, it’s a little different as the Mahorais are largely indigenous, rather than French settlers. It’s rather an interesting, and far from straightforward, discussion.
@Prof James Ker-Lindsay true. I'm not particularly pro irish unification as my view is that any unification should see a super majority (60%+). Otherwise, we would see issues in the long run. (Thanks for the heart)
Who is the person who is voting to be part of colonial power French they do this proganda Long time when Djibouti take their freedom they said we want to join Somalia but French they make fake voting and said they said we want to be a country that time French Frist goal was that Djibouti join Ethiopia but in Djibouti they don't want to be under colonial agian
While Northern Ireland and Mayotte decided not to be part of a new nation, Malaysia did expel Singapore, it's richest, most developed territory from the federation in 1960s against the wishes of many Singaporean citizens and politicians then.
Thanks. I actually made a video on that topic ua-cam.com/video/8PJ9JTod9X0/v-deo.html It was a fascinating, and indeed unique, case in modern international relations.
How exactly did Ireland vote for independence and northern Ireland to remain with the UK? I ask because I don't know. What was the referendum and did it win in every town in Ireland and lose in every town of northern Ireland?
@@FOLIPE Initially the UK government wanted to make the whole of Ireland a "free state" with a home parliament (later independent). This was done due to armed rebellion in Ireland against British rule. However, yes, the majority in *Northern* Ireland at the time were both very pro-UK and very anti-Catholic (Dominant religion of the South). Domestic militias formed to resist any Southern rule. To avert the risk of civil war, the UK kept Northern Ireland, hoping to reunify it again later under a new arrangement. Of course, 100 years later, we're still here! 😂
@@FOLIPE They didn't really. The UK unilaterally partitioned Ireland. Violence and boycotted votes (where half the community didn't participate) kept the status quo, until the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) was finally signed in 1998. This was approved via an all-island referendum, and states that NI is entitled to a further referendum to unify with the South, if it seems likely that a majority would vote in favour. The GFA is the main reason NI still exists today, and is also the tool to decide it's future. It is backed by the UN, EU, Ireland, UK and USA. So if you want a "vote" to point to, that's probably it. 1998.
This fascinating and important story has received surprisingly little international attention. But while most coverage has focused on the immigration issue, there’s been surprisingly little said about the broader issues of the partition of the Comoros, which has led to this crisis. But it does raise some important questions about self-determination in colonial situations. So, should France have held on to Mayotte? And should it continue to do so? As ever, I look forward to your thoughts and comments below.
Subjugation, exploitation and perhaps humiliation certainly could be part of the colonial experience but of course all of these adjectives also describe the experience of all peoples under domestic/native rule. Also, previous to colonization most if not all of these territories were vastly less developed at every level and his is obvious given what has happened post colonization.
I would say France would hold on to Mayotte so long as the people there express their wish to stay as part of France. Personally, I see Mayotte same as Somme or the department of France I live in. It is unfortunate the UN saw it as blocking self determination till Mayotte voted to become part of France, even though the people of the island did exactly that, exercise their choice to retain their links to France. On that note, I am also against this operation which I see is largely for political optics and trying to pull back the voters of the Rassemblement national to the mainstream (I do not see an RN voter suddenly turn symathetic to Darmanin thanks to this, and I understand that his party is genuinely worried of a Le Pen presidency come next election since Macron is ineligible). There has to be an improved asylum process in Mayotte which gives possibillity of acquiring the papers (which under current circumstances in Mayotte is difficult to regularise).
I don’t understand why anyone from any body (African union/ United Nations) would force mayotte to join Comoros if it’s contrary to their material interest/ right to self determination. It’s completely illogical
What if we conducted referendums in various European territories on mainland Europe to explore the possibility of changing countries? For example, could certain parts of Estonia or Ukraine potentially become part of Russia through this process? While my answer is a firm "No" to this idea, it is intriguing to observe that formal Western colonial powers currently find such actions acceptable.
You should wonder who got the right to vote, who was awarded the French nationality. Half of the population is Comorian and some of them is living in Mayotte since decades. They don't have the right to vote.
Thanks, as always, for laying out this topic in such a balanced academic fashion. Awesome content! It seems the people of Mayotte indicated their desire to remain as part of France. Despite international bodies to enforce their concept of a "geographical political construct," the people of Mayotte chose the pathway they wanted to follow & remained part of France. In an effort to maintain the rule of law, France has exercised it sovereign right to territorial integrity by starting to remove migrates who are, in fact, in France illegally. As a political entity, France governs itself as it chooses. Laws are and should be the foundation to an orderly society. Without laws, anarchy results. Despite the unfortunate optics of this situation in Mayotte, France is moving to maintain stability of its society by enforcement of French laws in removing people who, by their own initiative, entered Mayotte illegally. The optics are bad, but if enforcement is not established, a worse situation will develop. Politics is a difficult Art, but France, through its own democratic processes, is attempting to conduct the Art of politics. Thank you again for the outstanding content you provide. Your efforts help to inform & educate such a vast number of people is appreciated. 👍
@@theobanse1494 They weren't a part of France though, so it is about becoming french. And what about Oran and Algiers who didn't want autonomy inside algeria? These ones WERE a part of France. Also why did mainland France vote count in the 1961 referendum but not the vote of other comoro islands in the Mayotte case? At the time Mayotte WAS surely Comoros. The hypocrisy is endless
Thanks. Yes and no. It’s really interesting to read the reactions to this video. As I mentioned, there is a long-standing principle that colonial territories shouldn’t be partitioned. And many people would instinctively condemn France for doing it. But this case perhaps pushes people to think a little bit harder about it all. It isn’t as clearcut as it seems. We often think that there must be some sort of strategic reason for these sorts of partition decisions. But I’m sure France would rather not have this problem at all. In that sense, there are some interesting parallels with Northern Ireland.
@@JamesKerLindsay They'd rather not have this problem as I'd rather have my cake after eating it, but not eat it is not something I would ever consider. All would be done if they had followed the full results of the referendum done in the whole islands back then. Instead here we are now...
@@JamesKerLindsay "yes and no". not to you to say, you are incompetent. saying the partition of islands is the root of poverty in comoros is a blatant lie.
@@JamesKerLindsaybut the question is did france take the whole area as a whole or did france take disparate kingdoms and made into a whole? If they were separate before then the comoros cannot claim territorial integrity when there was no united comoros at the onset.
A few things to add : 1.There has never been a political unity of the Comorian islands before the creation of the Comoros by France. It is propaganda of the Comorian government to say that the Comoros archipelago has always been a united whole. Like explained in the video, the sultans of these islands were at war with each other. An ethnolinguistic unity does not necessarily lead to political unity. 2.At the time of the independence referendum, the French president at the time, Valéry Giscard d’Estaing, was in favour of the unity of the Comoros and did not want to separate the archipelago. It was the people of Mayotte who managed to convince the French parliament to take the result of the referendum island by island and thus keep the French presence in Mayotte. 3. Never in the history of France has a people been consulted so much on its belonging to France, Mayotte was French before Nice and Savoy.
Thanks so much for the extra details. Interestingly, a point I didn’t mention was that France in fact vetoed a UN Security Council resolution asking it to call of the Mayotte referendum. (The UK and USA abstained.) It was one of the few occasions where France has used its veto. Even today, it stands out for only using int in extreme cases. In fact, it hasn’t used it in quarter of a century!
@@JamesKerLindsay Of course! Concerning Operation Wambushu, it was requested by the Mahorais themselves, hence their massive support, whereas the left in France is opposed to it. The situation has been tense for a long time, the violence has been anchored on the island for far too long and the Mahorais have been calling for help for years. Today we are at a point of no return, if the people of Mayotte do not see their security and their living conditions improve in the coming months, they will take the law into their hands. And this is a real risk. It's been years since the population of Mayotte took matters into their own hands by destroying the illegal housing with the (unofficial) support of the authorities. Operation Wambushu is also being used by the government to turn the page on the highly unpopular pension reform and to launch a new unpopular reform on immigration at the national level. There are also real geopolitical stakes behind Wambushu for France's position in the Indo-Pacific. China and Russia are watching what is happening. If France does not weigh face with the Comoros who instrumentalize immigration, the image of France in Africa will be impacted once again.
@Irvine khulekani The thing is, if you want to live in France, you move to France. You can't make a neighborhood poll and then annex your town to France. That's not how it works
This crisis really sheds light on the complex and over unjustly oversimplified history of colonialism. Self-determination, colonial and post-colonial exploitation, and corruption combine to create a very complicate global issue. I really appreciate this video's in-depth look.
The French have put an end to Arab-Muslim slavery on our island of lagoons. France protected us from the Malagasy razias and protected us from the Comorian brothers who killed us. France gave us shoes and allowed us to have beautiful houses by replacing them with our old houses made of earth. This is why France will always be at home in Mayotte! France has all the recognition of the Mahorais. Long live France ! 🇨🇵
@@tosmodragoon France so desperate to feed on Africa When Sékou Touré of Guinea decided in 1958 to get out of french colonial empire, and opted for the country independence, the french colonial elite in Paris got so furious, and in a historic act of fury the french administration in Guinea destroyed everything in the country which represented what they called the benefits from french colonization. Three thousand French leh the country, taking all their property and destroying anything that which could not be moved: schools, nurseries, public administration buildings were crumbled; cars, books, medicine, research institute instruments, tractors were crushed and sabotaged; horses, cows in the farms were killed, and food in warehouses were burned or poisoned. The purpose of this outrageous act was to send a clear message to all other colonies that the consequences for rejecting France would be very high. Slowly fear spread through the african elite, and none aher the Guinea events ever found the courage to follow the example of Sékou Touré, whose slogan was ”We prefer freedom in poverty to opulence in slavery.” Sylvanus Olympio, the first president of the Republic of Togo, a tiny country in west Africa, found a middle ground solution with the French. He didn’t want his country to continue to be a french dominion, therefore he refused to sign the colonisation continuation pact De Gaulle proposed, but agree to pay an annual debt to France for the so called benefits Togo got from french colonization. It was the only conditions for the French not to destroy the country before leaving. However, the amount estimated by France was so big that the reimbursement of the so called ”colonial debt” was close to 40% of the country budget in 1963. The financial situation of the newly independent Togo was very unstable, so in order to get out the situation, Olympio decided to get out the french colonial money FCFA (the franc for french african colonies), and issue the country own currency. On January 13, 1963, three days aher he started printing his country own currency, a squad of illiterate soldiers backed by France killed the first elected president of newly independent Africa. Olympio was killed by an ex French Foreign Legionnaire army sergeant called Etienne Gnassingbe who supposedly received a bounty of $612 from the local French embassy for the hit man job. Olympio’s dream was to build an independent and self-sufficient and self-reliant country. But the French didn’t like the idea. On June 30, 1962, Modiba Keita, the first president of the Republic of Mali, decided to withdraw from the french colonial currency FCFA which was imposed on 12 newly independent African countries. For the Malian president, who was leaning more to a socialist economy, it was clear that colonisation continuation pact with France was a trap, a burden for the country development. On November 19, 1968, like, Olympio, Keita will be the victim of a coup carried out by another ex French Foreign legionnaire, the Lieutenant Moussa Traoré. In fact during that turbulent period of African fighting to liberate themselves from European colonization, France would repeatedly use many ex Foreign legionnaires to carry out coups against elected presidents: • - On January 1st, 1966, Jean-Bédel Bokassa, an ex french foreign legionnaire, carried a coup against David Dacko, the first President of the Central African Republic. • - On January 3, 1966, Maurice Yaméogo, the first President of the Republic of Upper Volta, now called Burkina Faso, was victim of a coup carried by Aboubacar Sangoulé Lamizana, an ex French legionnaire who fought with french troops in Indonesia and Algeria against these countries independence. • - on 26 October 1972, Mathieu Kérékou who was a security guard to President Hubert Maga, the first President of the Republic of Benin, carried a coup against the president, aher he attended French military schools from 1968 to 1970. In fact, during the last 50 years, a total of 67 coups happened in 26 countries in Africa, 16 of those countries are french ex-colonies, which means 61% of the coups happened in Francophone Africa.
Self-determination as a principal, seems quite holow if, when the choice you don't like comes to pass. There are continues calls for "self-determination" until another choice is made.
Finally someone sees it, just like democracy it sounds good in theory but is very different in reality, if you have an population of morons you get a idiocracy or mob rule.
In 2014 when Mayotte was made outer region of EU, the European Council unanimously recognized Mayotte as part of France. UN may have voted resolutions in the 90’s against it but EU countries position is de facto different.
What an interesting subject. I had no idea about any of this. The Prof certainly shines a spotlight on a lot of important events that receive minimal “mainstream media” coverage.
@Mira Moche I kind of suppose that the media can state that not covering these sorts of issues is not the same as hiding it. We both know it is. Thanks for your comment by the way. I am more used to receiving trolling insults than considered replies.
Salutations depuis Mayotte Océan Indien Le combat pour Mayotte française n'a jamais été éthnique mais politique, souvent non violent mixte et égalitaire contre la bourgeoisie comorienne commerçante et esclavagiste, plus éduquée parfois de nationalité française Ce combat a été mené principalement par les femmes sur le terrain, les chatouilleuses de Mayotte dont Zaina Mdere , ces femmes et ces hommes qui ont lutté étaient originaires des autres îles aussi mais ils avaient en commun la famine spoliation de terres , la pauvreté et la discrimination. Cette bourgeoisie comorienne n'a jamais été tendre avec le petit peuple travailleur d'où qu'ils viennent dans l'archipel L'île de Mohéli continue d'être stigmatisée encore aujourd'hui par la discrimination faite par la caste politique consanguine comorienne il faut noté bien avant l'indépendance les dirigeants politiques mahorais milités pour un rapprochement entre Mayotte et Mohéli qui étaient les plus pauvres On pourrait distingué ces iles par organisation d'origine à Mayotte et Mohéli il existe une société matrilocale et parfois matrilinéaire ethniquement ils sont proches des malgaches de la côte ouest les Sakalava, en Grande Comore c'est aussi matrilocale ethniquement proche des tanzaniens , à l'île d'Anjouan il existe une ascendance avec Oman et l'Hadramaout il y a une société patriarcale et patrilineaire Mise à part c'est différences la base et bantoue, l'écart de développement existant déjà à l'époque de l'indépendance les Comores indépendantes avaient un PIB 5 fois plus haut que celui de Mayotte et c'est là bas que le peu de mahorais aller encore pour terminer leur études. Ce que peut être les gens pourraient vouloir savoir c'est que la caste des notables de grande Comore et la bourgeoisie de Anjouan ont collaboré comme fonctionnaire de l'état colonial Ils ont milités auprès du petit peuple pour l'indépendance tout en gardant eux même la nationalité française Les mahorais ont senti qu'il n' y aurait que peu de viabilité commune se sont retirés car c'était revenir sous le joug des anciens maîtres Pour ceux qui comprennent Le vote pour le RN/FN a été un message ciblé contre le gouvernement de Macron par les natifs,ils ont démontré qu'ils étaient encore chez eux, on ne peut continuer à les violentés et à spolier leurs terres impunément sans qu'il y ait de réponses alors qu'il existe un état de droit. Le ministre Darmanin ému ou non a donné à priori une réponse aux mahorais qui en tant que contribuables ont droit à la sécurité. Comme leurs aînés les mahorais ont été capables d'engeance politique Aujourd'hui l'intérêt pour un archipel uni politiquement ne sert que les intérêts des dirigeants politiques comoriens corrompus qui appauvrissent leur pays sans oublier qu'ils continuent de mener double jeu ils sont tous binationaux ou ont travaillé en tant que fonctionnaire ou militaire dans l'état français Les Comores indépendantes et les Comores francaise en tournant le dos à ces féodaux arriérés et en s'unissant pour prendre l'opportunité d'un monde qui change pourront développer la zone La place centrale que tient l'archipel dans l'océan Indien un aéroport International en Grande Comore deux ports en eaux profondes à Anjouan et à Mayotte,une diaspora mondiale éduquée polyglotte et avec des contacts ayant tout les moyens de devenir à l'exemple du Kenya du Rwanda un des prochains hub africain à l'image de Singapour Désolé de la longueur et de langue non maitrisée Bien à vous Merci
Thank you so much for the extremely helpful comment. I really appreciated it. Unfortunately, there was a lot that I couldn't explain in the video, including the important role played by women in the MPM. So, thank you for explaining this. The situation in Mayotte is so interesting and important. I hope that I was able to provide an overview of a complex situation that many in the English-speaking world have never heard about.
The situation is grotesque on many counts, but one of the most ludicrous aspects of it all is that, were France to release Mayotte to the Comore, the Comoreans would lose their only hope of improvement as it would only take a few year for Mayotte to regress back to Comore economical situation. Another ludicrous aspect is that by crowding the "luckier" island, Comorean have already significantly worsened Mayotte economics and social life thereby defying their original purpose.
Great video as usual professor. Its interesting to consider the amount of exclusive economic zones in nations like France and Portugal have from overseas territories. Keep up the good work.
Peur de retourner sous les joug d'anciens maîtres, discrimination famine pauvreté à l'époque le PIB des Comores étaient 5 fois celui de Mayotte L'île de Mayotte et de Mohéli sont matrilocaux : spoliation des terres des notables et bourgeois comorien plus éduqués qui militaient pour l'indépendance tout en gardant la nationalité française La caste dominante n'a jamais été tendre avec le petit peuple travailleur comorien d'où qu'il vienne dans l'archipel , la société patriarcale d'instauration omanaise et Hadramaout était patriarcale et féodale, cela continue aujourd'hui d'où certains bloquages aujourd'hui Le mode peu decentralisé ne fonctionne pas Il faut noté que la constitution changé il ya peu permettait une présidence tour à tour de chaque pour l'union fédérale Quand ce fut le tour de Mayotte,tant de manigances ont fait qu'aucun candidats de Mayotte car il y en a eu quand même n'a été accepté,le tour est allé à une autre île Les politiciens voudraient que les comoriens non francais arrivent à Mayotte acquérir des papiers pour ensuite pouvoir aller en France continentale mais ne souhaitent la présidence des mahorais chez eux, ils refusent tout simplement, donc à vous de vous faire votre avis
Great question. It seems like the French influence was rather greater there. It had been under French rule longer (though not significantly), and the capital had been based there. It is also probable that there was a higher French settler population.
Ah, the right to self-determination! Simultaneous, one of the most abused and most ignored principles of international law. For Mayotte, the problem really boils down to this decision: What do you value more, the expressed will of the people or historical territorial claims?
Great video James, thanks for your perspective. Weighing in as French person here; I see Darmanin doing this largely to please the metropolitan French electorate, with the pull of the nationalist votes towards the far-right, an act in Mayotte is seen as an action taken against 'illegal immigration'. In addition to Comoros, Mayotte's own local leadership is against summary expulsions and I am worried about the increasingly hardline positions the ministry is taking under Darmanin, be it in Mayotte or Metropolitan France - when it came to handling the recent protests.
Thank you so much, Anirudh. I have to also thank you for kindly suggesting the idea in the first place. This has had no coverage at all in the Anglophone media! It has been completely missed. And, as always, I appreciate your extra perspective on this. It is interesting to hear that this has a domestic political component. I was actually struck by his much it echoes the small boats issue here in the U.K. It seems a lot if politicians are trying to make a name off the misery and desperation of migrants these days. Sad times. But, as you saw, I also thought it would be interesting to use this topic to highlight sone of the moral and political problems with the concept of self-determination in the process of decolonisation. It’s not perhaps quite as clear cut and straightforward as it might often seem. Again, my sincerest thanks for the really great suggestion!
@@JamesKerLindsay Good morning :) Thanks for the kind words and I am glad that I could be of helfp. I have been following the recent small boats rhetoric too and has disgusting rhetoric (got more information on it since I follow English football and the Gary Lineker saga that followed). Sad times indeed. It is true that self-determination is not that straightforward and a case in point of hasty decolonisation I see is that of Suriname - where no public opinion was sought.
Look to me that France is damned either way 1. Retain Mayotte and deal with a refugee crisis plus anti-colonial criticism 2. Withdraw and see Comoros in a war with Mayotte, again for which France will be criticised Ironically if the whole archipelago had remained a French colony then all of the people there would probably be having a far better standard of living and have no need to risk their lives as economic refugees
Just grant all the migrants French citizenship. After that they'd have the right to migrate to Europe and not just to Metropolitan France but to any EU member.
@@seneca983 no. absolutely not. 30% of the 0-4 year old french population is now from african immigration, it destruct the social system of france, it's enough.
This touches on so much - irregular migration, the states from which the migrants came not accepting their citizens back as they have no documents, locals turning to the far right, a group of islands which both wants to be 1 country and 2 countries and who gets to decide. There's enough material for a whole series of videos here.
Prof. Ker-Lindsay is doing such a great service in terms of news analysis, more academics need to be like him and really speak about their research to the lay person.
Thank you so much! I would love to see more academics do this. But it is difficult. It is very time consuming, and there is a steep learning curve. Also, and sadly, many are put off as they don’t want to face the abuse that can come with it. But I do certainly hope that others would give it a go. In fact, I learn so much from the channel. Lots of my ideas have evolved from discussions with viewers. And I’ve had so many great suggestions and tips for topics. Indeed, this one was a suggestion from a channel member.
Hey Professor. I found the term i was looking for to describe my position. "Egalitarian Self Determination." Or "Absolute Self Determination". Do you have any thoughts on this concept? Do you know anyone who currently advocates for it. Seems like Ghandi, Mandela, Woodrow Wilson, and others did but they are not around anymore. I view Absolute self determination supersedes territorial integrity. International law disagrees. So im looking for notable intellectuals advocating for this.
Thanks, Drew. There was time when the idea of a general principle of self-determination was seen in more vegetal terms than today. But while a nice idea, it was completely impractical. Ethnic groups don’t fall into neat areas. They often overlap. How do we decide which group gets what territory. And do we condone forced population transfers. And then there is the question of which groups qualify? When is a group too small for self-determination? We actually cover this in the book global.oup.com/academic/product/secession-and-state-creation-9780190494049?cc=cy&lang=en
@@JamesKerLindsay I would argue we have current boundaries that can be used as a baseline. However I look at them more organically, moldable and ever changing. Here in America we have 50 state. In my state of Pennsylvania we have 67 individual counties. We could allow Pennsylvanians to vote in a referendum on union or independence from America. If hypothetically it was successful I would argue Pennsylvania would have the right to reapply back to America if it wanted. Similar to how I would argue UK could reapply back to the EU in terms of customs union. If Pennsylvania elected to leave and not rejoin America. I would argue the 67 individual counties could vote in their own referendum on independence from Pennsylvania or maintain their union. I do believe city state is the lowest level I personally would advocate (Rome, Singapore, Monaco) for but we do have Amish communities here and it would be hard for me to argue their community should not have that right. I would absolutely not be in favor of any forced removal. People would have the option to immigrate/move to another area if they so wished as I believe in international free travel and not locking your citizens inside because you suck as a leader lol (Cough DPRK Cough). From my understanding egalitarian self determination recognizes the inherent value of human rights, equality, and inclusivity. It goes beyond merely allowing for self determination based on ethnic, national, or religious grounds. I would not tie it to religion, ethnic make up, culture, etc. It could be a completely random group if they are centrally located and universal suffrage vote for it in a democratic credible way. While I understand the practicality of it could/would be a mess and we can joke about it. However I believe this view is the most justified position one could have if were being fair to everyone. I did buy your book already.
Thanks, Drew - on all counts! :-) I can see the argument on territorial grounds. However, the US is a rather special case. In most places, the decision would inevitably be centred on ethno-national criteria. And it is also worth worth remembering that states don’t like to give up territory, for a variety of reasons. This could be on economic grounds. It could also be from a fear that if one area goes then others will follow. And I’m not sure that this would be good for international peace and stability. Can you imagine a UN made up of 1000 or 10,000 members? The international system would become dangerously chaotic.
@@JamesKerLindsay For sure. I'm ok with it being based on ethno-national criteria. South Korea and Japan basically are. Its not how I would build a state but I understand that mindset. I understand it would basically shatter global boundaries overnight if adopted. I really don't like this mindset countries have of "You are part of us no matter how you feel" to every part of their country. Does it really come down to might makes right + multilateral military alliances + we establish world order (ex UNSC) On the UN. The size is not my concern. Organization are organizations and they will find a way to operate. It's the structure and ability for a few countries from UK, Russia and us Americans and others to dictate world order in the UN that I don't find egalitarian. How about no permanent members.
Very good video on the subject. It is good to see some objectivity, usually, when english speaking media or youtube channel talks about Mayotte, they forgot to mention that the people there voted repeatedly to stay French. Thanks And "fun" fact, Mayotte's maternity is the biggest in France, a lot of the migrant are pregnant woman who came to give birth in France.
The same within french Guyana, brazilian women give birth here so their progeny would benefit from good social medical care, although they are not particularly fond of France...
@@FOLIPE Why you're not trying to do without molesting or massacre the native forest natives inhabitants then on your side ? One stupid assumption against another...
I got to say this situation reminds me of Hong Kong in the 1960s everyone was protesting that Hong Kong should be returned to the Chinese and then in the 2020s everyone was protesting and holding the British flag saying please liberate us from the Chinese
I don't think people in HK were ever enthusiastic about China. The 1997 handover actually caused a major flight of people as they were afraid the CCP would impose strict censorship on the next day. They didn't do it then, but surely are now.
Wait so let me get this straight the people from Comoros want to go to Mayotte because its richer than their islands because its under French control but at the same time want the island to be owned by them? Wouldn't that make the island poorer under their control and the people who wanted to leave to the French controlled island probably would want to go elsewhere to migrate?
@@randomguy6152 Why would France support an ex colony which does nothing for them and have actually demanded land that doesn't even want to go to them to begin with?
@@randomguy6152 That makes 0 sense. Why would France who hypothetically could lose their island to Comoros invest into their country for their own tourism? They wouldn't. In fact they'd likely pull all investments from that region since its one of the least tourist visited areas in the world. Let the island fall into poverty under their new African rulers and see how they like it.
French Guyana wanting to become part of France is a blessing for Space Exploration: The European Space Agency (ESA) launches their rockets in Korou, French Guyana because it is closer to the equator and space rockets launch better near the equator because it takes advantage of the Earth's faster spin at the equator. It's a win-win situation for ESA, Cayenne and the whole world. We get great Space Exploration, while F Guyana gets paid.
@@JamesKerLindsay It really is. I wonder how the FN is planning to return the favor to Mayotte if they get elected. After all, it would be quite expensive for France to enforce immigration laws in such a far off territory.
If the Island has voted repeatedly to remain part of France I don't see how it's the place of outsiders like the UN to tell them what to do Once you opt for independence you are responsible for your own development Can't have it both ways on one hand be independent and on the other expect French territory to take your migrants
Exactly. The funniest the comorians leave their island to go live in France when they had the opportunity. A lot of them are french and ask Mayotte to be a part of Comoria country whereas they live in France currently.
Fascinating video! I love how you always find interesting but little-talked about topics. As always, a morally murky situation. The plight of poverty stricken Comorans is pitiful, but I still don't think this is enough to justify violating Mahorais sovereignty and their desire for cultural preservation. It is the fault of the Comoran government that they are so poor, they have failed their citizens, so the impetus is on them to provide, not for France to play nice with illegal migration.
@@abaibrahim6709 You keep pasting that comment everywhere as if it actually offered some interesting viewpoint. It doesn't. What the hell does it even have to do with the topic?
This is actually the one time, I can't blame a colonial power. not to mention the fact that its the choice of The Mayotte's, they are economically well off than the Comoros islands. So much so, that ,it seems even the Comorians flee their own country. The interesting part is, What is the Comoros government proposing ? give us back Mayotte and let us be poor together? imagine that!!😏 First improve the lives of people you are governing before having any territorial ambitions. What makes more sense here is if Comoros people want the Mayotte life so much they should hold a referendum to join Mayotte.
It really is an interesting case, isn’t it!? I can see both dudes of the argument. And it is impossible for anyone reasonable to be absolutist on this. I suspect that the side that really most unhappy about it all is in fact France.
Yes Comorians leave their country to live in France. Their are more comorians in Marseille than in the capital of Comoros. In Mayotte, a teacher without experience earn 2900 euros/mouth against 50euros/mouth in Comoros.
0:21 different cultures. Western countries that try to clamp down on illegal immigrants are routinely accused of violating the human rights of the illegals. We don’t hear about such rights in other continents like Asia and Africa when countries take strong actions to protect their borders.
Couldn't help being reminded of Australia's half -arsed Christmas Island solution to illegal immigration. Truthfully Im not sure there is a 'good' solution to these problems while there is such wealth disparity on the planet. Such an interesting and thoughtful video as always professor, thank you.
The solution is that rich countries have the right to deny immigrants if they choose. People who try immigrate illegally should be treated as invaders, and dealt with via lethal force.
Thanks so much, Luke. Yes, there are all sorts of interesting parallels with other cases. I was reminded of the appalling discussion here in the UK at the moment about small boats crossing the Channel.
@@slimdiddyd Excuse me, but it aren't only 'rich countries' that don't allow immigrants. As a matter of fact, many Asian countries do-rich or poor. In many Asian countries immigrants cannot own property, even after a 30-year residency. Foreigners have few rights and can be kicked out at any time.
@@slimdiddyd In that case most US citizens should be kicked out of North America and back to England where they belong, many Brits who have invaded parts of Europe by buying holiday homes and deciding to stay should return to good old England as soon as possible. It's a double standard you are holding.
The Comoros president really said that Mayotte should become part of his country when hundreds of thousands from his country are leaving to Mayotte SMH
La population de Mayotte à fait son choix, je pense que ce choix doit être respecter. On ne peut pas forcer la population à rejoindre un Etat qu'il ne souhaite pas. C'est à l'ONU de comprendre !
Yes, but there is also the principle that colonial territories should not be partitioned. But I accept that it is not as straightforward as either side of the debate presents it.
I'd never heard of Mayotte before, so thank you for this. Unlike the Chagos Archipelago situation, where almost everyone agrees that the Chagossians have right on their side, I have sympathies with all sides of this dispute. They all have valid, understandable points of view. How on earth will it be resolved.
Thank you so much, Margaret. It is such a little-known situation. But you are absolutely correct. It is a fascinating case precisely because it forces us to confront a complex ambiguity about decolonisation and self-determination. We are used to believing that when it comes to decolonisation things are very straightforward. But this does raise some really difficult and uncomfortable questions. And, like you, I have very little idea how it can be resolved. I suspect it won't. Comoros will continue to claim it (knowing that the inhabitants don't want to be part of the country), and France will continue to claim it (but may well regret it).
Maybe if the Comoros govt stop using Mayotte as an easy excuse to distract ppl from its own political and economical issues, then things would have been less complicated for Comoros, Metropolitan France and Mayotte relations. There's no point for Comoros to be bitter towards Mayotte and Metropolitan France, when so many opportunities to develop and stabilise Comoros since 1974 have been sidelined by their own politicians because they prioritize unproductive cronyism instead.
Solutions that are based on humans not being humans are not solutions. Of course Comoros would be aggrieved and this would cause tensions with them. Just as it's obvious the difference between a sponsored bit of France and a poor africa country would cause migration issues with bad integration since it's far from mainland France. It's all really not rocket science, but sure, if people became angels it'd not be a problem. If only...
The French have put an end to Arab-Muslim slavery on our island of lagoons. France protected us from the Malagasy razias and protected us from the Comorian brothers who killed us. France gave us shoes and allowed us to have beautiful houses by replacing them with our old houses made of earth. This is why France will always be at home in Mayotte! France has all the recognition of the Mahorais. Long live France ! 🇨🇵
Well if the island gets back into Comoros, they will get poverty rates that the original inhabitants would want to migrate to France. And that's a bigger problem...
Its not colonial partition which is the issue. Its just the fact that places that are still under french control are a lot better than they would be under indigenous control. Thats why people are moving. while I understand it to an extent because they didn't want former colonies dissintegrating. I find it funny how places have the right to self determination from some overseas powers but don't have the right to self determination from other places over seas.
Of course the colonial partition is the issue. France colonized then divided the lands, subsidizing the bits it chose to keep. Of course they are doing relatively better off than the lands colonized and then thrown away
@@FOLIPE its the population of mayotte who choose to stay french, not france who choose to keep mayotte. and for your information comoros were a protectorat, not a colony, and they have the same level of wealth than other africans countrys, it's mayotte who is a lot wealthier because they are french and benefit from the french social system. and another information, the only comoros unity who ever exist was a french administration creation at the moment of independance mayotte was the poorest island, and it was the other islands who were the wealthiest. stop talking about sh*t you don't know like you don't know it's france who abolish arabe slavetrade in comoros
@kleijnee There's no but there. Most of Africa is a colonial creation. This is EXACTLY the situation this rule was created to avoid. France partitioned the colony of Comoros which existed before the referendum. That is an absolute irrefutable fact. It is absolutely Frances's responsibility it took a part of the territory of the colony of Comoros and detached it from the rest due to the local result being different from the rest of the colony, which it didn't do for example in algeria
@@FOLIPEcomoros is a colonioal creation. You want to deconize? Fine.. return it to the way it was before colonization - 4 different sultanates. Conprende?
The French have put an end to Arab-Muslim slavery on our island of lagoons. France protected us from the Malagasy razias and protected us from the Comorian brothers who killed us. France gave us shoes and allowed us to have beautiful houses by replacing them with our old houses made of earth. This is why France will always be at home in Mayotte! France has all the recognition of the Mahorais. Long live France ! 🇨🇵
Yes, very dissimilar to Northen Ireland. In NI, the people who voted to remain in the UK were descendant of british settlers sent them to colonize Ireland. In Mayotte, there were very few french settler and the people who voted to remains in France were the native people.
@@Bb13190 Who voted in northern Ireland? And why weren't the French in Oran and Algiers given a chance to remain in France without Algerian autonomy if the 1961 referendum lost there?
Finally back to business as usual, will be taking a look at your last few videos over the next few days; thank you for highlighting this issue! It has gotten relatively little play outside of France-based media outlets. I think in this case the situation on the ground, both in Comoros and Mayotte, as well as the other nearby French possessions, speaks for itself pretty clearly in this case. To me, this is yet another example of where this anti-Western sentiment has crept further and further into international institutions (some of it cheered on by factions in the West). In this case, the series of inflammatory actions (or lack thereof) by the Comoros government are ignored by such institutions (especially of course the African Union as you noted), while the wishes of the inhabitants of Mayotte, which had been an independent island previous to its combination by the French into a typical “supercolony” with the other Comoros islands. Although the case overall is clearly far more morally ambiguous, I feel much the same way about is the international community has ignored the actions (or lack thereof) of the Mauritius government over the last five decades towards the Chagos population, who live in abject squalor, compared to the level of criticism focused on Britain and America for their own unsavory actions decades ago. I feel we need to be very careful in this new Cold War setting about not letting anti-Western forces set the narrative and gain a propaganda edge; we need to speak clearly when the situation dictates we do so. Even on Ukraine, you’ve rarely heard Western leaders say that the goal in Ukraine is expulsion of all Russian troops and the restoration of pre-2014 borders. This lack of Western pushback, and even accedence at times, has allowed, for example: - the World Health Organization (and it’s Beijing-backed chief secretary) to spread Beijing’s propaganda on an official WHO platform - the UN Committee on Decolonization to come under the influence of anti-Western powers and enact unenforceable rulings for propaganda purposes - there are of course a host of other examples Well I’ve gone on too long already so I’ll end it there, but thank you for bringing an unbiased view to a situation that is immensely complex yet has been twisted by some, including international institutions, to fit an anti-Western narrative - your channel is such a great public resource for exactly this reason. Can’t wait to watch your other recent videos, cheers!
Thanks as ever LocalLt. I would look agree. I don’t believe in making false equivalences in the name of balance. I’m getting this a lot on my latest video on Moldova and Gagauzia. I will happily criticise Western wrongdoing when appropriate. But I’m not going to start playing the ‘they’re as bad as each other’ narrative. That said, we do need to make sure that we question Western actions when and where appropriate. But as this video showed, even in supposedly clear cut cases of colonialism, there are interesting moral and political ambiguities at play.
@@JamesKerLindsay Oh yes I very much appreciate your neutrality on these videos - I think that’s the reason I find the reporting quoting the African Union’s take on the Mayotte crisis (particularly by many American news sources, some of which slapped anti-Western headlines on an Associated Press story that was actually fairly benign) to be so frustrating and concerning.
While I would say that partitioning a territory that is being decolonised is wrong in general (Northern Ireland and Ceuta & Melilla were just scummy cases of gerrymandering), I think this case is special. I think that since it is a geographically distinct, relatively large part of the territory, with almost unanimous support for remaining with France, an exception should be made here.
Ceuta and Melilla weren't colonies, unlike this case. This case to me is the worst because of how arbitrary it is. They couldn't and wouldn't apply this nonsense in Ireland or Algeria because imagine the Holy Roman Empire level of borders if each city or town got to chose it's own afilliation. The fact that you are separating an archipelago instead of an island makes it less worse, perhaps, in practical ways, but the fundamental principle is the same, and in practical terms you see how well its working for them
@@JohnSmith-sl2qc It is a part of the same archipelago and it was a part of the colony of Comoros at the time of the referendum, which happened in ALL of Comoros. That's all there is to it, really. The rest is people trying to spin half truths
Mayotte wasn't colonized by France. It was bough before the colonisation to the Comore. After the referendum mayotte choose to remain link to France. Nothing to do with colonisation there. The problem is with the comore. They wanted to be free from France.. but then choose to send their population in Mayotte because of economic problems.
Their will to remain french should be respected by everyone, the Comoros government not even wanting back their own citizens is messed up, I wouldn't blame the Comoros citizens if they ever wanted to join France in exchange for a stable politic and better living standard😟
It was already tried. In 1997, 2 of the 3 islands that make up the Union of the Comoros seceded from the country. The islands of Anjouan and Mohéli declared independence and Anjouan even held an independence referrendum with around 99% in favor. After declaring independence, Anjouan requested to rejoin France. France refused. Those two islands ended up being reclaimed as part of the Comoros and they remain part of the Union of the Comoros to this day.
@JamesKerLindsay How about in the sense that nothing is going to change in the foreseeable future. My sister lives there and already one of her students has disappeared. She was a nice girl and very popular by all accounts but the place is bursting at the seams. It's about the same size as Arran in Scotland but with a population of over a quarter million rather than 5-6,000 The locals are very happy with their EU freedoms, French education and health care. Even if they have something that can't be treated on the island they get flown to Reunion. Also women get much better treatment than in the rest of the archipelago and many campaigned during the referendum. There's a mural of their leader at the airport.
Part of the issue is individuals acting as smugglers are bringing the people to mayotte. Well, if you want something to not be done, you have to make it undesirable. I would return amy caught migrant boat to the nearest island then confiscate the boat. Further tho people only take extreme action to leave home if home is hell. Maybe an international aid regimen organized by france would help slow the tide.
I know we think of colonization and imperialism is strictly a European thing but we need to also understand that it persisted as well in East Asia through the Japanese and through the Mediterranean and Africa by the Ottomans and those issues in those areas are still persistent despite being under a different colonizer It's just european-style colonization was the last form of colonization to persist and be destroyed. And both the legacy and remnants of that continue to rise from the grave
Nobody is talking about all colonialism or colonization in the history of the world. But of this one case in Mayotte where it was France who not only colonized the area but ended messing up the decolonization too
@@zebulonreynaud919 Of course it was a colony and who cares if france abolished this or that slave trade. It's not the matter at hand. The matter is how France divided Comoros and this caused problems to Comoros and to France since then and into the foreseeable future
@@FOLIPE hahaha, france never divided comoros, comoros was never united. and the problem of comoros is it's not french anymore, or it would be as wealthy at mayotte.
@@zebulonreynaud919 Of course it divided Comoros. Comoros was one single colonial territory, how can you claim it was never united? It was united under french colonial rule. What you are saying makes as much sense as pretending the earth is flat.
They want to remain part of France that’s the wise decision I come from an island surrounded by French regions but yet my island is independent and that independence isn’t worth anything just languishing in poverty. These islands aren’t worth wild nations it’s better to be part of a more developed nations! They wise to remain French!!!
Let me guess. Dominica? The only island country I can think of surrounded by France to the north and south. I thought Dominica was developing a lot within the past few years.
This is one of the most puzzling things to me. Any former colony. Be it France's or any other. The colonist are ordered to return the colony to the population. Fair enough. The population has observed what it takes to be successful for hundreds of years. The population is all for having their freedom. They are very happy the colonists are leaving. The colonists leave. The population waste no time in dismantling the system that worked for centuries. Shortly there after chaos ensues. The population doesn't quite grasp where they went wrong. So what do they do? They flee to their former oppressors/colonists. One sees this time and time again. The only former colony I can think of that has made the transition with any success is Canada. Like I said it puzzles me.
Unlike Russia, France protects its citizens regardless of skin color or religion. Russian army flatten all the block houses from separatist regions. I am curious if the people from Donbas will vote for Russia again.
I feel like this whole situation and living standard difference between all the Comoros islands is evidence that sometimes colonization was beneficial.
The fascinating thing about this, is the fact the UN has consistently gone against the wishes of the Mayotte population to remain a part of france. So much for supporting self determination.
Eh.... the situation is similar to the Donbas in Ukraine. If you populate an area with colonists, then those colonists vote to remain, does that really count? The answer is no. No it doesn't.
@@jeffmorris5802 that ain't the question in Dombass.
The rebels always where Russian funded and where originally indipendentist not pro joining Russia.
The Dombass separatist could have rebeled for thousend different reasons if Russia wanted It to be so.
@@jeffmorris5802 But they aren't colonists. At least not 90%. From what I remember, Mayotte used to be the political center of the Comoros under French rule. This meant, that the population had more power and a closer connection to France than the people on the other islands, leading them to reject independence.
Donbas is a very different story and it is actually unclear if a majority of the people of the Donbas actually ever supported becoming a part of Russia.
Self-determination is one of UN's values but so is territorial integrity. It's not like any arbitrary region has the right to self-determination just because a majority of the population there want it. A single family can't demand that their house and lot becomes a sovereign country even if they all agree on that. So what kind of regions of populations do have a right to self-determination? Solve that problem decisively and you'll be deserving of the Nobel Peace Prize.
@@seneca983 I think that what makes this case special, is that the region is not arbitrary but as an island has a clear natural boundary.
I'm more pro self determination than forced integration of previous colonial possessions into new countries. Mayotte in my opinion obviously wants to be part of France, they should not be forced to join another country at this point.
This video got crazier by the minute. Learning about the UN pressure going directly against the wishes of Mayotte's population, the Comoros government's crazy declarations about Mayotte (and the 270,000 inhabitants living there) being theirs and then finally the waves of illegal immigrants (which imo sounds exactly like what Belarus did to Poland/Germany a couple of years ago) has me shaking my head. It takes a lot and I mean A LOT to make France sound like the good guy in colonialism related matter, but I have to hand it to the Comoros government and the UN. They went above and beyond the call of duty and actually made France and even Le Pen look like the knights in shining armor lmao.
Considering that the majority of the island's population is black, African, and Muslim, what cultural, ethnic, or religious ties could there be between the island and France?
@@abaibrahim6709There are a lot of people in France who are considered black but still identify with French culture
Forced to join another...shittier country. Just like the Falklands and Argentina
You should wonder who got the right to vote, who was awarded the French nationality. Half of the population is Comorian and some of them is living in Mayotte since decades. They don't have the right to vote.
Always interesting to see foreigners talk about the french overseas territories. Most people tend to forget that WE WANT to remain part of france (I'm from Reunion Island btw). Most Mahorais are coming to my island because comorians are turning Mayotte into a shithole with gangs dismembering people with machetes. Mayotte CHOSE multiple times to remain part of France, they are the department that votes the most for the Rassemblement National. The Mahorais take being called a comorian as an INSULT, they don't have to pay for the comoros being an awful place to live.
I think I made all this VERY clear in the video. And while France’s actions are in fact contrary to general principles of international law, I deliberately highlighted the complex moral and political questions at play.
@@Robespierre-lI well the reasons to be part of france are many and i can't speak on behalf of all the islands so i will try to give explanations as to why my island (Reunion) wanted to stay french. First of all there were no native on the island, no one lived there before french mutineers and later pirates called the island home. Then when we became a colony most of the land was bought by rich french aristocrats who set up plantations and brought slaves and workers from all the colonies (India, Africa, Indochina, China, the Caribeans etc) so the island don't really have an entity prior to colonization. We are pretty patriotic here, most people goes to the army (half of my class in college ended up enlisting for exemple), we love france, we are the ones who voices the most our concerns to the direction the country is heading, this can be seen during every presidential elections. also there's the fact that we couldn't survive without france, we are a tiny little island in the middle of nowhere without ressources (we were a plantation colony, nothing more) the island is too small to sustain the population with food, for exemple during WW2 there was a famine here due to lack of food coming from france, and back then the population was small, nowadays we are almost a million.
The problems we face here today have more to do with the complete incompetence of the government to deal with anything, Macron don't even listen to the people living 5km from him so he won't listen to people living more than 11000km from his fucking palace. We basically have the same problems that metropolitan france face, its just 5 times worse because the government doesn't care about anything. truth is we love france more than it loves us, more than it love itself in fact. As for the other islands and Guyane i think they have similar reasons but i won't speak for them
Lets also forget Mayotte is filled French colonists that control most of the administrative roles there.
Independent Comorians are very proud of their national identity, even though many young people come to work in France like the inhabitants of Mayotte. They are offended if they are referred to as Mahorais, and consider themselves freer. Unfortunately, no one wants to invest in the Comorian islands because of the political instability, which has no remedy. The African Union is gradually gaining a strong foothold on the three islands, and is calling for Mayotte to be reintegrated, but I don't know if that's going to be an improvement.
The people of Mayotte have voted routinely to be part of France, so I don't see the argument for transferring them to the poorer and less developed Comoros. It just doesn't make much sense to me.
If the people wanted to join the Comoros, they should, but clearly, they dont
(Ps I'm irish)
Well, that last bit was a bit of a kicker! :-)
But of course Ireland is another very good example of this problem. What happens when you have decolonisation running up against the self-determination of a particular group that wants to stay a part of the colonial state. In this case, it’s a little different as the Mahorais are largely indigenous, rather than French settlers. It’s rather an interesting, and far from straightforward, discussion.
@Prof James Ker-Lindsay true. I'm not particularly pro irish unification as my view is that any unification should see a super majority (60%+). Otherwise, we would see issues in the long run.
(Thanks for the heart)
Who is the person who is voting to be part of colonial power
French they do this proganda
Long time when Djibouti take their freedom they said we want to join Somalia
but French they make fake voting and said they said we want to be a country
that time French Frist goal was that Djibouti join Ethiopia but in Djibouti they don't want to be under colonial agian
Mental slavery my guy
@@alexanderkowal5710 Oh dear.
The fact that Comoros didn't want their own people back says a lot about how desperate things are in Comoros. What a depressing situation.
yet they also want to claim Mayotte as their own territory so they can make it as poor and desperate
While Northern Ireland and Mayotte decided not to be part of a new nation, Malaysia did expel Singapore, it's richest, most developed territory from the federation in 1960s against the wishes of many Singaporean citizens and politicians then.
Thanks. I actually made a video on that topic ua-cam.com/video/8PJ9JTod9X0/v-deo.html It was a fascinating, and indeed unique, case in modern international relations.
How exactly did Ireland vote for independence and northern Ireland to remain with the UK? I ask because I don't know. What was the referendum and did it win in every town in Ireland and lose in every town of northern Ireland?
@@FOLIPE Initially the UK government wanted to make the whole of Ireland a "free state" with a home parliament (later independent). This was done due to armed rebellion in Ireland against British rule.
However, yes, the majority in *Northern* Ireland at the time were both very pro-UK and very anti-Catholic (Dominant religion of the South). Domestic militias formed to resist any Southern rule. To avert the risk of civil war, the UK kept Northern Ireland, hoping to reunify it again later under a new arrangement.
Of course, 100 years later, we're still here! 😂
@@UNSKIALzPSN But when did they vote on it
@@FOLIPE They didn't really. The UK unilaterally partitioned Ireland.
Violence and boycotted votes (where half the community didn't participate) kept the status quo, until the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) was finally signed in 1998. This was approved via an all-island referendum, and states that NI is entitled to a further referendum to unify with the South, if it seems likely that a majority would vote in favour.
The GFA is the main reason NI still exists today, and is also the tool to decide it's future. It is backed by the UN, EU, Ireland, UK and USA. So if you want a "vote" to point to, that's probably it. 1998.
This fascinating and important story has received surprisingly little international attention. But while most coverage has focused on the immigration issue, there’s been surprisingly little said about the broader issues of the partition of the Comoros, which has led to this crisis. But it does raise some important questions about self-determination in colonial situations. So, should France have held on to Mayotte? And should it continue to do so? As ever, I look forward to your thoughts and comments below.
How about Sudan?
Is this the same guy who accuses Italians of inhumane treatment of approximately 50000 illegal immigrants in just the first months of 2023?
Mahorais choose to stay in France. Taking the local point of view, Comore is the colonial power in Mayotte, not France ...
Subjugation, exploitation and perhaps humiliation certainly could be part of the colonial experience but of course all of these adjectives also describe the experience of all peoples under domestic/native rule. Also, previous to colonization most if not all of these territories were vastly less developed at every level and his is obvious given what has happened post colonization.
I would say France would hold on to Mayotte so long as the people there express their wish to stay as part of France. Personally, I see Mayotte same as Somme or the department of France I live in. It is unfortunate the UN saw it as blocking self determination till Mayotte voted to become part of France, even though the people of the island did exactly that, exercise their choice to retain their links to France. On that note, I am also against this operation which I see is largely for political optics and trying to pull back the voters of the Rassemblement national to the mainstream (I do not see an RN voter suddenly turn symathetic to Darmanin thanks to this, and I understand that his party is genuinely worried of a Le Pen presidency come next election since Macron is ineligible). There has to be an improved asylum process in Mayotte which gives possibillity of acquiring the papers (which under current circumstances in Mayotte is difficult to regularise).
I don’t understand why anyone from any body (African union/ United Nations) would force mayotte to join Comoros if it’s contrary to their material interest/ right to self determination. It’s completely illogical
What if we conducted referendums in various European territories on mainland Europe to explore the possibility of changing countries? For example, could certain parts of Estonia or Ukraine potentially become part of Russia through this process? While my answer is a firm "No" to this idea, it is intriguing to observe that formal Western colonial powers currently find such actions acceptable.
Because of territorial integrity.
You should wonder who got the right to vote, who was awarded the French nationality. Half of the population is Comorian and some of them is living in Mayotte since decades. They don't have the right to vote.
@@tienouchouOf course they are illegal immigrants.
Why exactly should illegal immigrants have the right to vote?
@@abaibrahim6709 Copy paste pasta Somali???
The moment you realize that Frances largest neighbour is Brazil, not Germany
🤢🤮
Haha! Blimey. When you put it that way!
And how long will it take for you to realize that even Spain is bigger than Germany?
Actually, if you consider land area and maritime borders, France's biggest neighbor is Canada.
@@glassman1533 what he meant by largest neighbour was the longest land border.
France share his longest land border with Brazil.
Thanks, as always, for laying out this topic in such a balanced academic fashion. Awesome content!
It seems the people of Mayotte indicated their desire to remain as part of France. Despite international bodies to enforce their concept of a "geographical political construct," the people of Mayotte chose the pathway they wanted to follow & remained part of France.
In an effort to maintain the rule of law, France has exercised it sovereign right to territorial integrity by starting to remove migrates who are, in fact, in France illegally.
As a political entity, France governs itself as it chooses. Laws are and should be the foundation to an orderly society. Without laws, anarchy results. Despite the unfortunate optics of this situation in Mayotte, France is moving to maintain stability of its society by enforcement of French laws in removing people who, by their own initiative, entered Mayotte illegally. The optics are bad, but if enforcement is not established, a worse situation will develop. Politics is a difficult Art, but France, through its own democratic processes, is attempting to conduct the Art of politics. Thank you again for the outstanding content you provide. Your efforts help to inform & educate such a vast number of people is appreciated.
👍
What if a neighborhood of France indicated it's desire to belong to another country?
@@FOLIPE it's not about becoming French, it's about staying French
@@theobanse1494 They weren't a part of France though, so it is about becoming french. And what about Oran and Algiers who didn't want autonomy inside algeria? These ones WERE a part of France. Also why did mainland France vote count in the 1961 referendum but not the vote of other comoro islands in the Mayotte case? At the time Mayotte WAS surely Comoros.
The hypocrisy is endless
If Mayotte wants to be part of France, let it be part of France. Like that should literally be the end of the conversation.
Thanks. Yes and no. It’s really interesting to read the reactions to this video. As I mentioned, there is a long-standing principle that colonial territories shouldn’t be partitioned. And many people would instinctively condemn France for doing it. But this case perhaps pushes people to think a little bit harder about it all. It isn’t as clearcut as it seems. We often think that there must be some sort of strategic reason for these sorts of partition decisions. But I’m sure France would rather not have this problem at all. In that sense, there are some interesting parallels with Northern Ireland.
@@JamesKerLindsay They'd rather not have this problem as I'd rather have my cake after eating it, but not eat it is not something I would ever consider. All would be done if they had followed the full results of the referendum done in the whole islands back then. Instead here we are now...
@@JamesKerLindsay "yes and no". not to you to say, you are incompetent. saying the partition of islands is the root of poverty in comoros is a blatant lie.
@@JamesKerLindsaybut the question is did france take the whole area as a whole or did france take disparate kingdoms and made into a whole? If they were separate before then the comoros cannot claim territorial integrity when there was no united comoros at the onset.
A few things to add :
1.There has never been a political unity of the Comorian islands before the creation of the Comoros by France. It is propaganda of the Comorian government to say that the Comoros archipelago has always been a united whole. Like explained in the video, the sultans of these islands were at war with each other. An ethnolinguistic unity does not necessarily lead to political unity.
2.At the time of the independence referendum, the French president at the time, Valéry Giscard d’Estaing, was in favour of the unity of the Comoros and did not want to separate the archipelago. It was the people of Mayotte who managed to convince the French parliament to take the result of the referendum island by island and thus keep the French presence in Mayotte.
3. Never in the history of France has a people been consulted so much on its belonging to France, Mayotte was French before Nice and Savoy.
Thanks so much for the extra details. Interestingly, a point I didn’t mention was that France in fact vetoed a UN Security Council resolution asking it to call of the Mayotte referendum. (The UK and USA abstained.) It was one of the few occasions where France has used its veto. Even today, it stands out for only using int in extreme cases. In fact, it hasn’t used it in quarter of a century!
Not the first time the french parliament committed an illegal mistake in Africa
@@JamesKerLindsay Of course! Concerning Operation Wambushu, it was requested by the Mahorais themselves, hence their massive support, whereas the left in France is opposed to it. The situation has been tense for a long time, the violence has been anchored on the island for far too long and the Mahorais have been calling for help for years. Today we are at a point of no return, if the people of Mayotte do not see their security and their living conditions improve in the coming months, they will take the law into their hands. And this is a real risk. It's been years since the population of Mayotte took matters into their own hands by destroying the illegal housing with the (unofficial) support of the authorities.
Operation Wambushu is also being used by the government to turn the page on the highly unpopular pension reform and to launch a new unpopular reform on immigration at the national level.
There are also real geopolitical stakes behind Wambushu for France's position in the Indo-Pacific. China and Russia are watching what is happening. If France does not weigh face with the Comoros who instrumentalize immigration, the image of France in Africa will be impacted once again.
@Irvine khulekani The thing is, if you want to live in France, you move to France. You can't make a neighborhood poll and then annex your town to France. That's not how it works
@irvinekhulekaniif they had different sultans then how can they be one country? Or even be united? Lol..
This crisis really sheds light on the complex and over unjustly oversimplified history of colonialism. Self-determination, colonial and post-colonial exploitation, and corruption combine to create a very complicate global issue. I really appreciate this video's in-depth look.
The French have put an end to Arab-Muslim slavery on our island of lagoons. France protected us from the Malagasy razias and protected us from the Comorian brothers who killed us. France gave us shoes and allowed us to have beautiful houses by replacing them with our old houses made of earth. This is why France will always be at home in Mayotte! France has all the recognition of the Mahorais. Long live France ! 🇨🇵
@@tosmodragoon
France so desperate to feed on Africa
When Sékou Touré of Guinea decided in 1958 to get out of french colonial empire, and opted for the country independence, the french colonial elite in Paris got so furious, and in a historic act of fury the french administration in Guinea destroyed everything in the country which represented what they called the benefits from french colonization.
Three thousand French leh the country, taking all their property and destroying anything that which could not be moved: schools, nurseries, public administration buildings were crumbled; cars, books, medicine, research institute instruments, tractors were crushed and sabotaged; horses, cows in the farms were killed, and food in warehouses were burned or poisoned.
The purpose of this outrageous act was to send a clear message to all other colonies that the consequences for rejecting France would be very high.
Slowly fear spread through the african elite, and none aher the Guinea events ever found the courage to follow the example of Sékou Touré, whose slogan was ”We prefer freedom in poverty to opulence in slavery.”
Sylvanus Olympio, the first president of the Republic of Togo, a tiny country in west Africa, found a middle ground solution with the French.
He didn’t want his country to continue to be a french dominion, therefore he refused to sign the colonisation continuation pact De Gaulle proposed, but agree to pay an annual debt to France for the so called benefits Togo got from french colonization.
It was the only conditions for the French not to destroy the country before leaving. However, the amount estimated by France was so big that the reimbursement of the so called ”colonial debt” was close to 40% of the country budget in 1963.
The financial situation of the newly independent Togo was very unstable, so in order to get out the situation, Olympio decided to get out the french colonial money FCFA (the franc for french african colonies), and issue the country own currency.
On January 13, 1963, three days aher he started printing his country own currency, a squad of illiterate soldiers backed by France killed the first elected president of newly independent Africa. Olympio was killed by an ex French Foreign Legionnaire army sergeant called Etienne Gnassingbe who supposedly received a bounty of $612 from the local French embassy for the hit man job.
Olympio’s dream was to build an independent and self-sufficient and self-reliant country. But the French didn’t like the idea.
On June 30, 1962, Modiba Keita, the first president of the Republic of Mali, decided to withdraw from the french colonial currency FCFA which was imposed on 12 newly independent African countries. For the Malian president, who was leaning more to a socialist economy, it was clear that colonisation continuation pact with France was a trap, a burden for the country development.
On November 19, 1968, like, Olympio, Keita will be the victim of a coup carried out by another ex French Foreign legionnaire, the Lieutenant Moussa Traoré.
In fact during that turbulent period of African fighting to liberate themselves from European colonization, France would repeatedly use many ex Foreign legionnaires to carry out coups against elected presidents:
• - On January 1st, 1966, Jean-Bédel Bokassa, an ex french foreign legionnaire, carried a coup against David Dacko, the first President of the Central African Republic.
• - On January 3, 1966, Maurice Yaméogo, the first President of the Republic of Upper Volta, now called Burkina Faso, was victim of a coup carried by Aboubacar Sangoulé Lamizana, an ex French legionnaire who fought with french troops in Indonesia and Algeria against these countries independence.
• - on 26 October 1972, Mathieu Kérékou who was a security guard to President Hubert Maga, the first President of the Republic of Benin, carried a coup against the president, aher he attended French military schools from 1968 to 1970.
In fact, during the last 50 years, a total of 67 coups happened in 26 countries in Africa, 16 of those countries are french ex-colonies, which means 61% of the coups happened in Francophone Africa.
@@tosmodragoon
What about BOB DENARD ??
Self-determination as a principal, seems quite holow if, when the choice you don't like comes to pass. There are continues calls for "self-determination" until another choice is made.
Finally someone sees it, just like democracy it sounds good in theory but is very different in reality, if you have an population of morons you get a idiocracy or mob rule.
In 2014 when Mayotte was made outer region of EU, the European Council unanimously recognized Mayotte as part of France. UN may have voted resolutions in the 90’s against it but EU countries position is de facto different.
You always find the most interesting and unknown issues, thanks for the videos!
What an interesting subject. I had no idea about any of this. The Prof certainly shines a spotlight on a lot of important events that receive minimal “mainstream media” coverage.
Thanks so much, Peter. It is surprising just how little this has been covered. I could find next to nothing in the Anglophone media.
@Mira Moche I kind of suppose that the media can state that not covering these sorts of issues is not the same as hiding it. We both know it is. Thanks for your comment by the way. I am more used to receiving trolling insults than considered replies.
I mean, the people of Mayotte want to remain a part of France, they should remain a part of France.
Salutations depuis Mayotte Océan Indien
Le combat pour Mayotte française n'a jamais été éthnique mais politique, souvent non violent mixte et égalitaire contre la bourgeoisie comorienne commerçante et esclavagiste, plus éduquée parfois de nationalité française
Ce combat a été mené principalement par les femmes sur le terrain, les chatouilleuses de Mayotte dont Zaina Mdere , ces femmes et ces hommes qui ont lutté étaient originaires des autres îles aussi mais ils avaient en commun la famine spoliation de terres , la pauvreté et la discrimination.
Cette bourgeoisie comorienne n'a jamais été tendre avec le petit peuple travailleur d'où qu'ils viennent dans l'archipel
L'île de Mohéli continue d'être stigmatisée encore aujourd'hui par la discrimination faite par la caste politique consanguine comorienne il faut noté bien avant l'indépendance les dirigeants politiques mahorais milités pour un rapprochement entre Mayotte et Mohéli qui étaient les plus pauvres
On pourrait distingué ces iles par organisation d'origine à Mayotte et Mohéli il existe une société matrilocale et parfois matrilinéaire ethniquement ils sont proches des malgaches de la côte ouest les Sakalava, en Grande Comore c'est aussi matrilocale ethniquement proche des tanzaniens , à l'île d'Anjouan il existe une ascendance avec Oman et l'Hadramaout il y a une société patriarcale et patrilineaire
Mise à part c'est différences la base et bantoue, l'écart de développement existant déjà à l'époque de l'indépendance les Comores indépendantes avaient un PIB 5 fois plus haut que celui de Mayotte et c'est là bas que le peu de mahorais aller encore pour terminer leur études.
Ce que peut être les gens pourraient vouloir savoir c'est que la caste des notables de grande Comore et la bourgeoisie de Anjouan ont collaboré comme fonctionnaire de l'état colonial
Ils ont milités auprès du petit peuple pour l'indépendance tout en gardant eux même la nationalité française
Les mahorais ont senti qu'il n' y aurait que peu de viabilité commune se sont retirés car c'était revenir sous le joug des anciens maîtres
Pour ceux qui comprennent
Le vote pour le RN/FN a été un message ciblé contre le gouvernement de Macron par les natifs,ils ont démontré qu'ils étaient encore chez eux, on ne peut continuer à les violentés et à spolier leurs terres impunément sans qu'il y ait de réponses alors qu'il existe un état de droit.
Le ministre Darmanin ému ou non a donné à priori une réponse aux mahorais qui en tant que contribuables ont droit à la sécurité.
Comme leurs aînés les mahorais ont été capables d'engeance politique
Aujourd'hui l'intérêt pour un archipel uni politiquement ne sert que les intérêts des dirigeants politiques comoriens corrompus qui appauvrissent leur pays sans oublier qu'ils continuent de mener double jeu ils sont tous binationaux ou ont travaillé en tant que fonctionnaire ou militaire dans l'état français
Les Comores indépendantes et les Comores francaise en tournant le dos à ces féodaux arriérés et en s'unissant pour prendre l'opportunité d'un monde qui change pourront développer la zone
La place centrale que tient l'archipel dans l'océan Indien un aéroport International en Grande Comore deux ports en eaux profondes à Anjouan et à Mayotte,une diaspora mondiale éduquée polyglotte et avec des contacts ayant tout les moyens de devenir à l'exemple du Kenya du Rwanda un des prochains hub africain à l'image de Singapour
Désolé de la longueur et de langue non maitrisée
Bien à vous
Merci
Thank you so much for the extremely helpful comment. I really appreciated it. Unfortunately, there was a lot that I couldn't explain in the video, including the important role played by women in the MPM. So, thank you for explaining this. The situation in Mayotte is so interesting and important. I hope that I was able to provide an overview of a complex situation that many in the English-speaking world have never heard about.
The situation is grotesque on many counts, but one of the most ludicrous aspects of it all is that, were France to release Mayotte to the Comore, the Comoreans would lose their only hope of improvement as it would only take a few year for Mayotte to regress back to Comore economical situation.
Another ludicrous aspect is that by crowding the "luckier" island, Comorean have already significantly worsened Mayotte economics and social life thereby defying their original purpose.
Great video as usual professor. Its interesting to consider the amount of exclusive economic zones in nations like France and Portugal have from overseas territories. Keep up the good work.
Great video Professor, thanks for bringing up a topic that many would not have heard of
UN/AU: "You have the right to self-determination - as long as you choose the path we predetermined for you!"
Thanks!
Thank you so much! That was very kind of you and really appreciated. Very best regards, James
Why was there such a massive disparity between the opinion of the other Comoros islands and Mayotte in regards to independence?
Peur de retourner sous les joug d'anciens maîtres, discrimination famine pauvreté à l'époque le PIB des Comores étaient 5 fois celui de Mayotte
L'île de Mayotte et de Mohéli sont matrilocaux : spoliation des terres des notables et bourgeois comorien plus éduqués qui militaient pour l'indépendance tout en gardant la nationalité française
La caste dominante n'a jamais été tendre avec le petit peuple travailleur comorien d'où qu'il vienne dans l'archipel , la société patriarcale d'instauration omanaise et Hadramaout était patriarcale et féodale, cela continue aujourd'hui d'où certains bloquages aujourd'hui
Le mode peu decentralisé ne fonctionne pas
Il faut noté que la constitution changé il ya peu permettait une présidence tour à tour de chaque pour l'union fédérale
Quand ce fut le tour de Mayotte,tant de manigances ont fait qu'aucun candidats de Mayotte car il y en a eu quand même n'a été accepté,le tour est allé à une autre île
Les politiciens voudraient que les comoriens non francais arrivent à Mayotte acquérir des papiers pour ensuite pouvoir aller en France continentale mais ne souhaitent la présidence des mahorais chez eux, ils refusent tout simplement, donc à vous de vous faire votre avis
L'esclavage interafricain a été aboli en 1841 à Mayotte
Et environ 40 ans plus tard au Comores en 1912😢
Great question. It seems like the French influence was rather greater there. It had been under French rule longer (though not significantly), and the capital had been based there. It is also probable that there was a higher French settler population.
Money. The tribal leaders got money from the French authorities to influence the population to support French control.
VIVE LA FRANCE 🇨🇵 🇨🇵 🇨🇵 From a french of Mayotte !
Ah, the right to self-determination!
Simultaneous, one of the most abused and most ignored principles of international law.
For Mayotte, the problem really boils down to this decision: What do you value more, the expressed will of the people or historical territorial claims?
Historical territorial claims that are non-sense as France owned Mayotte decades before the Comores.
Mayotte voted to remain.
@@pierren___ Exactly.
And the Union of the Comoros has historical territorial claims.
@@AGS363 ? No since its not democratic. France should annex Comores.
You can't arbitrarily divide colonies like that when you give them independence. Imagine if they did it too Algeria, what a mess.
Thanks Prof 👍🏻👍🏻
I mean the people expressed their wishes in a free and fair vote and that deserves to be expected. So much for self-determination
Another revetting video about something getting little exposure elsewhere. Thank you.
Great video James, thanks for your perspective. Weighing in as French person here; I see Darmanin doing this largely to please the metropolitan French electorate, with the pull of the nationalist votes towards the far-right, an act in Mayotte is seen as an action taken against 'illegal immigration'. In addition to Comoros, Mayotte's own local leadership is against summary expulsions and I am worried about the increasingly hardline positions the ministry is taking under Darmanin, be it in Mayotte or Metropolitan France - when it came to handling the recent protests.
Thank you so much, Anirudh. I have to also thank you for kindly suggesting the idea in the first place. This has had no coverage at all in the Anglophone media! It has been completely missed.
And, as always, I appreciate your extra perspective on this. It is interesting to hear that this has a domestic political component. I was actually struck by his much it echoes the small boats issue here in the U.K. It seems a lot if politicians are trying to make a name off the misery and desperation of migrants these days. Sad times.
But, as you saw, I also thought it would be interesting to use this topic to highlight sone of the moral and political problems with the concept of self-determination in the process of decolonisation. It’s not perhaps quite as clear cut and straightforward as it might often seem.
Again, my sincerest thanks for the really great suggestion!
@@JamesKerLindsay Good morning :) Thanks for the kind words and I am glad that I could be of helfp.
I have been following the recent small boats rhetoric too and has disgusting rhetoric (got more information on it since I follow English football and the Gary Lineker saga that followed). Sad times indeed.
It is true that self-determination is not that straightforward and a case in point of hasty decolonisation I see is that of Suriname - where no public opinion was sought.
@@anirudhparthasarathy3387 Thanks, Anirudh. Yes, as I was working on it I kept thinking about the appalling situation in the U.K.
I never heard about Mayotte until now. Thank you.
Thanks. Yes, it's an unusual one. It is remarkably little known, even compared to the other French overseas territories.
As always, thank you for addressing these issues that otherwise get little or no attention in the US.
Thanks a lot, Dan. It's so interesting to try to cover these little-known issues.
Writing an essay about this topic. This was interesting. Thank you 💥
Great. I hope it helped. :-)
@@JamesKerLindsay it did thank you. Geography abd history are important and you gave us a comprehensive background in such a short time. Thanks 🌸
Ask to mahorais if it's a colonial power. They are french and nothing can change it.
fascinating!! thanks for this!!!!
Many thanks, Greg. Really appreciated.
Look to me that France is damned either way
1. Retain Mayotte and deal with a refugee crisis plus anti-colonial criticism
2. Withdraw and see Comoros in a war with Mayotte, again for which France will be criticised
Ironically if the whole archipelago had remained a French colony then all of the people there would probably be having a far better standard of living and have no need to risk their lives as economic refugees
We have to annex it all
Just grant all the migrants French citizenship. After that they'd have the right to migrate to Europe and not just to Metropolitan France but to any EU member.
The colonialism is a good thing.
Their mistake was in the begining when they colonized it, then again when they divided it. Now it's the consequences of their past mistakes
@@seneca983 no. absolutely not. 30% of the 0-4 year old french population is now from african immigration, it destruct the social system of france, it's enough.
Fantastic overview, professor.
Thank you so much!
Muslim island supporting Far right in France this must be mind blwing 😂😂😂
Muslims aren't far left nor right so 😂
Beaucoup de frzncais sont musulmans et viennent d'ex colonies. Quel est le probleme ? ,
This touches on so much - irregular migration, the states from which the migrants came not accepting their citizens back as they have no documents, locals turning to the far right, a group of islands which both wants to be 1 country and 2 countries and who gets to decide. There's enough material for a whole series of videos here.
Since a wall cannot be built around Mayotte, maybe a moat?
Regarding India and Pakistan, people seem to forget the Pakistan Movement, Jinnah most famously, insisted on division.
Mahorais live better than comoros or madgascar. Free school, europeans pasports...as an african, i support their union with france.
Prof. Ker-Lindsay is doing such a great service in terms of news analysis, more academics need to be like him and really speak about their research to the lay person.
Thank you so much! I would love to see more academics do this. But it is difficult. It is very time consuming, and there is a steep learning curve. Also, and sadly, many are put off as they don’t want to face the abuse that can come with it. But I do certainly hope that others would give it a go. In fact, I learn so much from the channel. Lots of my ideas have evolved from discussions with viewers. And I’ve had so many great suggestions and tips for topics. Indeed, this one was a suggestion from a channel member.
Hey Professor. I found the term i was looking for to describe my position. "Egalitarian Self Determination." Or "Absolute Self Determination". Do you have any thoughts on this concept? Do you know anyone who currently advocates for it. Seems like Ghandi, Mandela, Woodrow Wilson, and others did but they are not around anymore. I view Absolute self determination supersedes territorial integrity. International law disagrees. So im looking for notable intellectuals advocating for this.
Thanks, Drew. There was time when the idea of a general principle of self-determination was seen in more vegetal terms than today. But while a nice idea, it was completely impractical. Ethnic groups don’t fall into neat areas. They often overlap. How do we decide which group gets what territory. And do we condone forced population transfers. And then there is the question of which groups qualify? When is a group too small for self-determination? We actually cover this in the book global.oup.com/academic/product/secession-and-state-creation-9780190494049?cc=cy&lang=en
@@JamesKerLindsay I would argue we have current boundaries that can be used as a baseline. However I look at them more organically, moldable and ever changing. Here in America we have 50 state. In my state of Pennsylvania we have 67 individual counties. We could allow Pennsylvanians to vote in a referendum on union or independence from America. If hypothetically it was successful I would argue Pennsylvania would have the right to reapply back to America if it wanted. Similar to how I would argue UK could reapply back to the EU in terms of customs union. If Pennsylvania elected to leave and not rejoin America. I would argue the 67 individual counties could vote in their own referendum on independence from Pennsylvania or maintain their union. I do believe city state is the lowest level I personally would advocate (Rome, Singapore, Monaco) for but we do have Amish communities here and it would be hard for me to argue their community should not have that right. I would absolutely not be in favor of any forced removal. People would have the option to immigrate/move to another area if they so wished as I believe in international free travel and not locking your citizens inside because you suck as a leader lol (Cough DPRK Cough). From my understanding egalitarian self determination recognizes the inherent value of human rights, equality, and inclusivity. It goes beyond merely allowing for self determination based on ethnic, national, or religious grounds. I would not tie it to religion, ethnic make up, culture, etc. It could be a completely random group if they are centrally located and universal suffrage vote for it in a democratic credible way. While I understand the practicality of it could/would be a mess and we can joke about it. However I believe this view is the most justified position one could have if were being fair to everyone. I did buy your book already.
Thanks, Drew - on all counts! :-) I can see the argument on territorial grounds. However, the US is a rather special case. In most places, the decision would inevitably be centred on ethno-national criteria. And it is also worth worth remembering that states don’t like to give up territory, for a variety of reasons. This could be on economic grounds. It could also be from a fear that if one area goes then others will follow. And I’m not sure that this would be good for international peace and stability. Can you imagine a UN made up of 1000 or 10,000 members? The international system would become dangerously chaotic.
@@JamesKerLindsay For sure. I'm ok with it being based on ethno-national criteria. South Korea and Japan basically are. Its not how I would build a state but I understand that mindset. I understand it would basically shatter global boundaries overnight if adopted. I really don't like this mindset countries have of "You are part of us no matter how you feel" to every part of their country. Does it really come down to might makes right + multilateral military alliances + we establish world order (ex UNSC) On the UN. The size is not my concern. Organization are organizations and they will find a way to operate. It's the structure and ability for a few countries from UK, Russia and us Americans and others to dictate world order in the UN that I don't find egalitarian. How about no permanent members.
Keep going Sir. Your videos are very interesting and informatib.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate the kind support.
Comoros GDP $1,600 vs Mayotte $10,000, with the possibility to move to France and work everywhere in the EU? Off course they want to stay French.
Very good video on the subject. It is good to see some objectivity, usually, when english speaking media or youtube channel talks about Mayotte, they forgot to mention that the people there voted repeatedly to stay French. Thanks
And "fun" fact, Mayotte's maternity is the biggest in France, a lot of the migrant are pregnant woman who came to give birth in France.
The same within french Guyana, brazilian women give birth here so their progeny would benefit from good social medical care, although they are not particularly fond of France...
@@vermicelledecheval5219 did you ever try decolonize? No? Ah
@@FOLIPE Why you're not trying to do without molesting or massacre the native forest natives inhabitants then on your side ? One stupid assumption against another...
I got to say this situation reminds me of Hong Kong in the 1960s everyone was protesting that Hong Kong should be returned to the Chinese and then in the 2020s everyone was protesting and holding the British flag saying please liberate us from the Chinese
Meanwhile in the UK bits and peaces also protest and seem to want out. Also in Spain and in Ukraine it caused a war. Funny, that.
I don't think people in HK were ever enthusiastic about China. The 1997 handover actually caused a major flight of people as they were afraid the CCP would impose strict censorship on the next day.
They didn't do it then, but surely are now.
The difference is that HK inhabitants did not get to vote on the territory's future.
Turkey has more than 8 million assylum seekers from Syria and we don't know what to do with them.
France have more than 30% of the 0-4 year old population who is from african immigration, it's 25 000 000 peoples, it's enough !
integrate them like the millions of Turks who moved to western europe
@@mou6854 What about moving them to Europe?
Wait so let me get this straight the people from Comoros want to go to Mayotte because its richer than their islands because its under French control but at the same time want the island to be owned by them? Wouldn't that make the island poorer under their control and the people who wanted to leave to the French controlled island probably would want to go elsewhere to migrate?
no it means France can support the island more making it a massive tourist location and favourable vacation place for French
@@randomguy6152 Why would France support an ex colony which does nothing for them and have actually demanded land that doesn't even want to go to them to begin with?
@@scarletcrusade77 the colony can be good for tourism which is very profitable if France invest into them
@@randomguy6152 That makes 0 sense. Why would France who hypothetically could lose their island to Comoros invest into their country for their own tourism? They wouldn't. In fact they'd likely pull all investments from that region since its one of the least tourist visited areas in the world. Let the island fall into poverty under their new African rulers and see how they like it.
IT WOULD 100%
French Guyana wanting to become part of France is a blessing for Space Exploration:
The European Space Agency (ESA) launches their rockets in Korou, French Guyana because it is closer to the equator and space rockets launch better near the equator because it takes advantage of the Earth's faster spin at the equator. It's a win-win situation for ESA, Cayenne and the whole world. We get great Space Exploration, while F Guyana gets paid.
I’m so glad I’ve found your channel! Subscribed!
Thank you so much! And a very warm welcome. :-)
Very interesting that the Maorais have chosen the FN. I doubt that they would be welcomed in mainland France among their fellow voter base.
Indeed! You’re absolutely right. It is very interesting, isn’t it!?
@@JamesKerLindsay It really is. I wonder how the FN is planning to return the favor to Mayotte if they get elected. After all, it would be quite expensive for France to enforce immigration laws in such a far off territory.
If the Island has voted repeatedly to remain part of France I don't see how it's the place of outsiders like the UN to tell them what to do
Once you opt for independence you are responsible for your own development
Can't have it both ways on one hand be independent and on the other expect French territory to take your migrants
Exactly.
The funniest the comorians leave their island to go live in France when they had the opportunity. A lot of them are french and ask Mayotte to be a part of Comoria country whereas they live in France currently.
Fascinating video! I love how you always find interesting but little-talked about topics.
As always, a morally murky situation. The plight of poverty stricken Comorans is pitiful, but I still don't think this is enough to justify violating Mahorais sovereignty and their desire for cultural preservation. It is the fault of the Comoran government that they are so poor, they have failed their citizens, so the impetus is on them to provide, not for France to play nice with illegal migration.
@@abaibrahim6709 It is upto the people of that small African Island to decide if they want to join China or not.
@@abaibrahim6709 You keep pasting that comment everywhere as if it actually offered some interesting viewpoint. It doesn't. What the hell does it even have to do with the topic?
Interesting clip anyway. Keep up the good work.
Thank you very much! I will try.
Fantastic job!!!
Thank you so much!
I had no idea about any of this! You set the context perfectly and explained the issue well. Learned a lot. Subbed :)
Thanks so much! And a very warm welcome to the channel. :-)
This is actually the one time, I can't blame a colonial power. not to mention the fact that its the choice of The Mayotte's, they are economically well off than the Comoros islands. So much so, that ,it seems even the Comorians flee their own country.
The interesting part is, What is the Comoros government proposing ? give us back Mayotte and let us be poor together? imagine that!!😏 First improve the lives of people you are governing before having any territorial ambitions.
What makes more sense here is if Comoros people want the Mayotte life so much they should hold a referendum to join Mayotte.
It really is an interesting case, isn’t it!? I can see both dudes of the argument. And it is impossible for anyone reasonable to be absolutist on this. I suspect that the side that really most unhappy about it all is in fact France.
Yes Comorians leave their country to live in France. Their are more comorians in Marseille than in the capital of Comoros. In Mayotte, a teacher without experience earn 2900 euros/mouth against 50euros/mouth in Comoros.
0:21 different cultures. Western countries that try to clamp down on illegal immigrants are routinely accused of violating the human rights of the illegals. We don’t hear about such rights in other continents like Asia and Africa when countries take strong actions to protect their borders.
Rather than all those other islands raising themselves up it's easier to "bail"
Couldn't help being reminded of Australia's half -arsed Christmas Island solution to illegal immigration. Truthfully Im not sure there is a 'good' solution to these problems while there is such wealth disparity on the planet.
Such an interesting and thoughtful video as always professor, thank you.
The solution is that rich countries have the right to deny immigrants if they choose. People who try immigrate illegally should be treated as invaders, and dealt with via lethal force.
Thanks so much, Luke. Yes, there are all sorts of interesting parallels with other cases. I was reminded of the appalling discussion here in the UK at the moment about small boats crossing the Channel.
@@slimdiddyd They should definitely be returned to their country of origin.
@@slimdiddyd Excuse me, but it aren't only 'rich countries' that don't allow immigrants. As a matter of fact, many Asian countries do-rich or poor. In many Asian countries immigrants cannot own property, even after a 30-year residency. Foreigners have few rights and can be kicked out at any time.
@@slimdiddyd In that case most US citizens should be kicked out of North America and back to England where they belong, many Brits who have invaded parts of Europe by buying holiday homes and deciding to stay should return to good old England as soon as possible. It's a double standard you are holding.
honestly.... this is an amazing video... thank you
So, you see! You jumped in to make a comment about me without watching the whole thing. Let that be a lesson! :-)
Mayotte benefit being part of France, that is why people from Comoros is moving into mayotte
The Comoros president really said that Mayotte should become part of his country when hundreds of thousands from his country are leaving to Mayotte SMH
The comorian president is a liar
99.4% its a clear unity. The will of the people is the only thing that matters
La population de Mayotte à fait son choix, je pense que ce choix doit être respecter. On ne peut pas forcer la population à rejoindre un Etat qu'il ne souhaite pas. C'est à l'ONU de comprendre !
Yes, but there is also the principle that colonial territories should not be partitioned. But I accept that it is not as straightforward as either side of the debate presents it.
If they want to be part of France let them be a part of France it's not that complicated they have the right to decide the future of their island
I'd never heard of Mayotte before, so thank you for this. Unlike the Chagos Archipelago situation, where almost everyone agrees that the Chagossians have right on their side, I have sympathies with all sides of this dispute. They all have valid, understandable points of view. How on earth will it be resolved.
Thank you so much, Margaret. It is such a little-known situation. But you are absolutely correct. It is a fascinating case precisely because it forces us to confront a complex ambiguity about decolonisation and self-determination. We are used to believing that when it comes to decolonisation things are very straightforward. But this does raise some really difficult and uncomfortable questions. And, like you, I have very little idea how it can be resolved. I suspect it won't. Comoros will continue to claim it (knowing that the inhabitants don't want to be part of the country), and France will continue to claim it (but may well regret it).
It was resolved. The people of Mayotte chose to remain a part of France.
The Diego Garcia situation is also much oversimplified, although is obviously still far more morally ambiguous than Mayotte.
Maybe if the Comoros govt stop using Mayotte as an easy excuse to distract ppl from its own political and economical issues, then things would have been less complicated for Comoros, Metropolitan France and Mayotte relations. There's no point for Comoros to be bitter towards Mayotte and Metropolitan France, when so many opportunities to develop and stabilise Comoros since 1974 have been sidelined by their own politicians because they prioritize unproductive cronyism instead.
Solutions that are based on humans not being humans are not solutions. Of course Comoros would be aggrieved and this would cause tensions with them. Just as it's obvious the difference between a sponsored bit of France and a poor africa country would cause migration issues with bad integration since it's far from mainland France. It's all really not rocket science, but sure, if people became angels it'd not be a problem. If only...
The French have put an end to Arab-Muslim slavery on our island of lagoons. France protected us from the Malagasy razias and protected us from the Comorian brothers who killed us. France gave us shoes and allowed us to have beautiful houses by replacing them with our old houses made of earth. This is why France will always be at home in Mayotte! France has all the recognition of the Mahorais. Long live France ! 🇨🇵
Vive la France ❤️🇫🇷🇫🇷❤️
À nos frères mahorais !
Why should the issue of self determination be overruled by the issue of unity? What about the self determination of, for example, the Falkland Island?
Well if the island gets back into Comoros, they will get poverty rates that the original inhabitants would want to migrate to France.
And that's a bigger problem...
Give all to France
And some comorians are living in France and are french.
This is new to me. Thanks for sharing
Thanks, Max. There’s been surprisingly little on it in the English-language media. But Mayotte is certainly a fascinating territory, isn’t it?
Its not colonial partition which is the issue. Its just the fact that places that are still under french control are a lot better than they would be under indigenous control. Thats why people are moving.
while I understand it to an extent because they didn't want former colonies dissintegrating. I find it funny how places have the right to self determination from some overseas powers but don't have the right to self determination from other places over seas.
Of course the colonial partition is the issue. France colonized then divided the lands, subsidizing the bits it chose to keep. Of course they are doing relatively better off than the lands colonized and then thrown away
@@FOLIPE its the population of mayotte who choose to stay french, not france who choose to keep mayotte.
and for your information comoros were a protectorat, not a colony, and they have the same level of wealth than other africans countrys, it's mayotte who is a lot wealthier because they are french and benefit from the french social system.
and another information, the only comoros unity who ever exist was a french administration creation
at the moment of independance mayotte was the poorest island, and it was the other islands who were the wealthiest. stop talking about sh*t you don't know
like you don't know it's france who abolish arabe slavetrade in comoros
@kleijnee There's no but there. Most of Africa is a colonial creation. This is EXACTLY the situation this rule was created to avoid. France partitioned the colony of Comoros which existed before the referendum. That is an absolute irrefutable fact. It is absolutely Frances's responsibility it took a part of the territory of the colony of Comoros and detached it from the rest due to the local result being different from the rest of the colony, which it didn't do for example in algeria
@@FOLIPEcomoros is a colonioal creation. You want to deconize? Fine.. return it to the way it was before colonization - 4 different sultanates. Conprende?
The French have put an end to Arab-Muslim slavery on our island of lagoons. France protected us from the Malagasy razias and protected us from the Comorian brothers who killed us. France gave us shoes and allowed us to have beautiful houses by replacing them with our old houses made of earth. This is why France will always be at home in Mayotte! France has all the recognition of the Mahorais. Long live France ! 🇨🇵
Great video. Thanks. Pretty much all of it was news to me. Not dissimilar to Northern Ireland.
Yes, very dissimilar to Northen Ireland. In NI, the people who voted to remain in the UK were descendant of british settlers sent them to colonize Ireland.
In Mayotte, there were very few french settler and the people who voted to remains in France were the native people.
@@Bb13190 Who voted in northern Ireland? And why weren't the French in Oran and Algiers given a chance to remain in France without Algerian autonomy if the 1961 referendum lost there?
Finally back to business as usual, will be taking a look at your last few videos over the next few days; thank you for highlighting this issue! It has gotten relatively little play outside of France-based media outlets.
I think in this case the situation on the ground, both in Comoros and Mayotte, as well as the other nearby French possessions, speaks for itself pretty clearly in this case.
To me, this is yet another example of where this anti-Western sentiment has crept further and further into international institutions (some of it cheered on by factions in the West).
In this case, the series of inflammatory actions (or lack thereof) by the Comoros government are ignored by such institutions (especially of course the African Union as you noted), while the wishes of the inhabitants of Mayotte, which had been an independent island previous to its combination by the French into a typical “supercolony” with the other Comoros islands.
Although the case overall is clearly far more morally ambiguous, I feel much the same way about is the international community has ignored the actions (or lack thereof) of the Mauritius government over the last five decades towards the Chagos population, who live in abject squalor, compared to the level of criticism focused on Britain and America for their own unsavory actions decades ago.
I feel we need to be very careful in this new Cold War setting about not letting anti-Western forces set the narrative and gain a propaganda edge; we need to speak clearly when the situation dictates we do so. Even on Ukraine, you’ve rarely heard Western leaders say that the goal in Ukraine is expulsion of all Russian troops and the restoration of pre-2014 borders. This lack of Western pushback, and even accedence at times, has allowed, for example:
- the World Health Organization (and it’s Beijing-backed chief secretary) to spread Beijing’s propaganda on an official WHO platform
- the UN Committee on Decolonization to come under the influence of anti-Western powers and enact unenforceable rulings for propaganda purposes
- there are of course a host of other examples
Well I’ve gone on too long already so I’ll end it there, but thank you for bringing an unbiased view to a situation that is immensely complex yet has been twisted by some, including international institutions, to fit an anti-Western narrative - your channel is such a great public resource for exactly this reason.
Can’t wait to watch your other recent videos, cheers!
Thanks as ever LocalLt. I would look agree. I don’t believe in making false equivalences in the name of balance. I’m getting this a lot on my latest video on Moldova and Gagauzia. I will happily criticise Western wrongdoing when appropriate. But I’m not going to start playing the ‘they’re as bad as each other’ narrative. That said, we do need to make sure that we question Western actions when and where appropriate.
But as this video showed, even in supposedly clear cut cases of colonialism, there are interesting moral and political ambiguities at play.
@@JamesKerLindsay Oh yes I very much appreciate your neutrality on these videos - I think that’s the reason I find the reporting quoting the African Union’s take on the Mayotte crisis (particularly by many American news sources, some of which slapped anti-Western headlines on an Associated Press story that was actually fairly benign) to be so frustrating and concerning.
The islanders chose to be a part of France due to economic/political incentives.
While I would say that partitioning a territory that is being decolonised is wrong in general (Northern Ireland and Ceuta & Melilla were just scummy cases of gerrymandering), I think this case is special. I think that since it is a geographically distinct, relatively large part of the territory, with almost unanimous support for remaining with France, an exception should be made here.
Ceuta and Melilla weren't colonies, unlike this case. This case to me is the worst because of how arbitrary it is. They couldn't and wouldn't apply this nonsense in Ireland or Algeria because imagine the Holy Roman Empire level of borders if each city or town got to chose it's own afilliation. The fact that you are separating an archipelago instead of an island makes it less worse, perhaps, in practical ways, but the fundamental principle is the same, and in practical terms you see how well its working for them
@F. OPE no it isn't. Mayotte is a geographically distinct island that became French even before the comoros existed
@@JohnSmith-sl2qc It is a part of the same archipelago and it was a part of the colony of Comoros at the time of the referendum, which happened in ALL of Comoros. That's all there is to it, really. The rest is people trying to spin half truths
@@FOLIPE So each and every Andaman island should be independent according to your logic
@@FOLIPE this is legit bait
Mayotte wasn't colonized by France. It was bough before the colonisation to the Comore. After the referendum mayotte choose to remain link to France. Nothing to do with colonisation there. The problem is with the comore. They wanted to be free from France.. but then choose to send their population in Mayotte because of economic problems.
No, by any understanding of the term, it was colonisation. And it has been clearly defined as much by the United Nations.
@@JamesKerLindsay The people in mayotte do not think the same. But i guess they do not matter when some people have something to say.
What is the ethnic make up of mayotte ?
Their will to remain french should be respected by everyone, the Comoros government not even wanting back their own citizens is messed up, I wouldn't blame the Comoros citizens if they ever wanted to join France in exchange for a stable politic and better living standard😟
It was already tried. In 1997, 2 of the 3 islands that make up the Union of the Comoros seceded from the country. The islands of Anjouan and Mohéli declared independence and Anjouan even held an independence referrendum with around 99% in favor. After declaring independence, Anjouan requested to rejoin France. France refused. Those two islands ended up being reclaimed as part of the Comoros and they remain part of the Union of the Comoros to this day.
very interesting
The Comorians have a claim to sovereignty over Mayotte like the Argentines have a claim over the Falklands.
That can be read in two very different ways. :-)
@JamesKerLindsay How about in the sense that nothing is going to change in the foreseeable future.
My sister lives there and already one of her students has disappeared. She was a nice girl and very popular by all accounts but the place is bursting at the seams. It's about the same size as Arran in Scotland but with a population of over a quarter million rather than 5-6,000
The locals are very happy with their EU freedoms, French education and health care. Even if they have something that can't be treated on the island they get flown to Reunion.
Also women get much better treatment than in the rest of the archipelago and many campaigned during the referendum. There's a mural of their leader at the airport.
As they said it better to be a pheonix tail then a chicken head.
They wanted independence but go back to French territory because of their country mismanagement
Part of the issue is individuals acting as smugglers are bringing the people to mayotte. Well, if you want something to not be done, you have to make it undesirable. I would return amy caught migrant boat to the nearest island then confiscate the boat. Further tho people only take extreme action to leave home if home is hell. Maybe an international aid regimen organized by france would help slow the tide.
Always fascinating
Thank you very much!
Thanks prof,👍
We in the United Kingdom could learn some valuable lessons in how to deal with illegal immigrants from this situation.
10:23 The National Front is now called "National Rally" (Rassemblement national).
I know we think of colonization and imperialism is strictly a European thing but we need to also understand that it persisted as well in East Asia through the Japanese and through the Mediterranean and Africa by the Ottomans and those issues in those areas are still persistent despite being under a different colonizer
It's just european-style colonization was the last form of colonization to persist and be destroyed. And both the legacy and remnants of that continue to rise from the grave
Nobody is talking about all colonialism or colonization in the history of the world. But of this one case in Mayotte where it was France who not only colonized the area but ended messing up the decolonization too
@@FOLIPE france abolished the arabe slavetrade in comoros, and mayotte was never a colony, it was buyed by france legaly.
@@zebulonreynaud919 Of course it was a colony and who cares if france abolished this or that slave trade. It's not the matter at hand. The matter is how France divided Comoros and this caused problems to Comoros and to France since then and into the foreseeable future
@@FOLIPE hahaha, france never divided comoros, comoros was never united. and the problem of comoros is it's not french anymore, or it would be as wealthy at mayotte.
@@zebulonreynaud919 Of course it divided Comoros. Comoros was one single colonial territory, how can you claim it was never united? It was united under french colonial rule. What you are saying makes as much sense as pretending the earth is flat.
What status does St Pierre and Miquelon have?
Collectivite d'Outre-Mer, i.e. fiscal autonomy unlike a Departement like Mayotte.
They want to remain part of France that’s the wise decision I come from an island surrounded by French regions but yet my island is independent and that independence isn’t worth anything just languishing in poverty. These islands aren’t worth wild nations it’s better to be part of a more developed nations! They wise to remain French!!!
Let me guess. Dominica? The only island country I can think of surrounded by France to the north and south. I thought Dominica was developing a lot within the past few years.
Why are there no Polish subtitles?
While Google Translate works, it does make mistakes.
This is one of the most puzzling things to me. Any former colony. Be it France's or any other. The colonist are ordered to return the colony to the population. Fair enough. The population has observed what it takes to be successful for hundreds of years. The population is all for having their freedom. They are very happy the colonists are leaving. The colonists leave. The population waste no time in dismantling the system that worked for centuries. Shortly there after chaos ensues. The population doesn't quite grasp where they went wrong. So what do they do? They flee to their former oppressors/colonists. One sees this time and time again. The only former colony I can think of that has made the transition with any success is Canada. Like I said it puzzles me.
We can fault France on many things but certainly not this
Fault France on what ?
This is Frances's fault. With some foresight they'd not be in trouble now. They decided to be there and the rest is a consequence of those choices.
@@pierren___ you are funny
@@FOLIPE its the Comores fault. They decided to be independant, now they are crying.
@@FOLIPE it's the france fault if the mayotte wealth level is close to france.
In comparison, some parts of Ukraine have voted to join Russia
Yea under guns and a illegally invasion not the greatest comparison
@@mou6854 Colonization is a legal invasion?
Unlike Russia, France protects its citizens regardless of skin color or religion. Russian army flatten all the block houses from separatist regions. I am curious if the people from Donbas will vote for Russia again.
I feel like this whole situation and living standard difference between all the Comoros islands is evidence that sometimes colonization was beneficial.