Should you slow down your fast Creality K1 or Bambu X1C Printer?
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- Опубліковано 8 гру 2023
- What? Make my fast printer SLOW? Why?
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I recently made a video pitting the Creality K1 against the Bambu X1C in a high-speed torture test showdown. We tried to reach the highest speeds we could with each printer in their stock forms. We were able to get as high as 450mm/s which wasn't too bad. We also raised the inner and outer wall speeds. The results weren't perfect, they weren't terrible either. But it raised the question of whether a fast printer designed to be run at high speeds could produce better results if we slow it down, or would there be other issues that come up if we do?
In this video, we we through far more tests to see if we could get the answer to that question, we even created our own speed test model along with the torture tests.
I've used the same Creality Hyper PLA as the previous video and dried it again thoroughly.
I hope you found this video helpful and interesting!
Another way to support this channel indirectly is through my affiliate links (where I receive a small commission). It helps me to continue to provide high-quality content videos. Thank you for your support!
NEW MIC (I bought this)
amzn.to/3vcMKAr - Rode Wireless ME mic (Saved me about 4+ hours/vid)
amzn.to/3NBFvZe - Mag clip (Super handy, but a little pricy)
BAMBU PRINTERS
shrsl.com/4aghz
CREALITY PRINTERS
shrsl.com/4aghy
CREALITY HYPER PLA
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#bambu
#3dprinting
#Creality - Навчання та стиль
Can you please make a video that goes over how to manually level the bed on the K1? Maybe something like a "tuneup" video? Tension belts, etc.
You can tuneup both the K1 and X1C then run this exact same test.
My K1 Max has an unusually high spot by the front door left corner. Because of that high spot, I can hear the bed rapidly going up and down to compensate, which makes a wavy print on that corner. 😔
The remaining 3 quadrants of the bed area are perfect, but I'm printing massive items. 😅
Hey, thank you! I really appreciate the support.
You and I must be thinking the same things because I have that exact video on my list. It's an issue I ran into with my K1 printer also, the bed was 1mm out of level. I took it apart and tried to re-level the bed 4 times, and I was not having good success, so I took a little different and simpler approach. I will move this video up on the list so you can expect to see something in 1-2 weeks.
Like you, my bed is still wavy, but mine is the opposite on the front right corner, it drops down. I have been thinking of ways to fix this. Can I ask about the typ bed temp your running? Do you have an example of a part that I could use for the video as well.
I am super stoked, I just received a new RODE wireless mic set which gives great sound quality... and I am finally able to get in front of the camera without looking like a full-on robot. I should be able to get up to 3 videos/wk soon.
Thanks again! Any video Ideas are welcome!
@AvocadoAtrocity I have an update for you, I have a solution which gets us really close, mine is now within 0.25mm highest to lowest, the bed itself is a bit warped, which accounts for nearly all of that difference. I began at 1.46mm out. I was able to reproduce the issue you were seeing as well with the leadscrews adjusting quite a lot to compensate for it. I'll have a video ready within a few days for you. If you'd like the solution sooner let me know and I can get it to you.
@@NeedItMakeIt Thanks for pushing on this issue. I'm going to print out these main door systems for a drop door system I engineered, so I can wait patiently. The fact that you got that much success is AWESOME!
I'm running whatever bed temps the K1 Max recommends for Creality Hyper PLA. Looks like 45 for the bed and 220 for the Hyper PLA.
I'm unsure if you have links enabled, but here is a link to how the bed looks out of the box:
i.imgur.com/fi8wxC8.png
The one corner is so bad, that the I can hear the bed go up and down whenever I print along that edge. I'm printing very large boxes with sliding doors. The prints literally take up almost the entire print area!
imgur.com/a/EVDjkyk
@@NeedItMakeItNot who you’re replying to but I can’t wait to see your video! I’m running into some sort of VFA/ghosting issue on my K1 max that’s been frustrating me. I notice there will be groups of layers that look completely fine, then groups of layers that show issues. Usually wavy patterns. I especially see it when printing square corners, the problem layers usually have a more rounded looking corner if that makes sense. I’ve tried tweaking bunch of things like acceleration, jerk, input shaping, etc. May try orca slicer again but it seemed to make the prints worse when I tried it initially. Anyway, sorry for the whole essay, just wanted to say I’m looking forward to your video.
@@Schermit I was supposed to be replying to Avocado, not sure what happened with there. Tech is changing so quickly it's hard to keep up with where to place the # or @ or @#%^ symbols....
I've had this same problem with my K1 when I first started printing with it, towards the upper layers I believe that it is a problem with a slight over-extrusion and the nozzle is rubbing while extruding, but I'll have to dig deeper on this one, there is very little documented on this. There is a possibility that it is a combo of problems, infill position on interior wall vs direction of travel of the nozzle while it's extruding and some over-extrusion. It could also be a speed/resonance issue, my part also had rounded corners, so that could indicate that we're travelling at higher speeds in these areas. Recently I printed some parts which had no signs of this, they were shown in my 'BROKEN?' video from last week. Those parts had rounded corners also. A bit strange, but I think we can get to the bottom of it. I will see what I can find out. Are you able to send me the file by chance? I'd like to test the part you're having problems with.
The video for bed level comes out today at 3:00pm EST, I hope that it helps some people with the same issues I was having.
These are called VFA (vertical line artifacts). I did extensive testing on what causes it. It came down the stepper drivers and the motors. Basically at slower speeds and torqy motors you will get these artifacts. There is no fix other than changing print speed. I have gone as far as to put smooth pulleys and teethless belts on one printer to find the issues. It is in most cases the motors steps. While not impossible, it can be caused by belts too but not on these machines. This is the reason why I still stick to Enders for prints that require slower printing in dark filaments to avoid heat streaks. Bed slingers still have their place as they do not suffer nears as much in VFA as these new high speed corexy printers.
Thank you for your insight
2 years ago, when I bought my very first 3d printer, I found your channel and you helped me solve problems with my Ender 3 V2. 2 years later and and your content has become even better. Keep up the good work man, beware of a burn out and be well. 🙏
WOW! Thank you so much!
I just started full-time into content creation, I decided to take the leap. It's a lot of work, but it's also a lot of fun and it is pretty rewarding. I have the time to test and research and make videos. I'm doing 2 med-length videos/wk not including shorts. I plan on making up to 5 videos/wk which will be a real push, but maybe I can get good enough for that.
Thanks for that advice, I have been down that path, and it took a lot longer to recover than I could have imagined.
Feel free to join me on Discord, I'll have the link on Patreon, or you can email me at needitmakeit@gmail.com, I'd love to have more people on the server to discuss ideas and solve problems etc.
Thanks again, I really appreciate it!
@@NeedItMakeIt I've joined your patreon right away but the discord link doesn't seem to work. :-) Btw your patreon is a real gold. So many interesting findings in the videos.
I've just release a videos to Patrons asking for some help, do you want to see more behind the scenes of what I'm working on, or should I focus on longer-form videos for YT?
Hi everyone, i think the best approach is to do a flow test with different temperature for eatch printer and choose the best for your filament (strength, appearance and behavior), then try to average the speed in your slicer.
In my case i use the flow limitation with the a spicific temprerature and i try to minimise higher or lower speeds (flow rate) during all my prints even if i change the layer hight or line width, that's my secret for getting better prints with max speed.
it's my first day in your channel and i love it, thanks
Hey, you might want to try de-essing your audio. Keep up the good work, I learned a lot from this video. I mainly keep my x1c silent at night, and in sport mode during waking hours.
I just received a Rode Wireless ME kit yesterday, it is so frustrating to end up with audio that still doesnt sound good even after spending hours on it. I will be making a video on it once I have a bit more of it under my belt because it can save people a TON of time, in the time it takes to edit Audio I could have made another short video, terrible that it took me so long to do this. But thank you for pointing this out, good audio is a big deal and I'm working towards getting the best audio I can for these videos so it's clean and not distracting.
Thanks for the support I really appreciate it!
You're the first person to say that they have different modes for different times of day, very interesting. I may have to try that out myself. Have you taken your printer to ludicrous at all?
I think the audio is good, just need to add a filter to the post-processing workflow.
I use ludicrous every now and then. I dont like using it because I think It puts unneeded stress on the machine. I've read about xy belts stretching and causing z banding. I haven't needed to adjust xy belts yet, but I print tolerance test prints monthly to confirm that the printer is still within specs and not my parts that need fixing.
The reason is more of a risk-reward analysis. I print big jobs overnight, so I get a 12-hour window. Most of my parts are
It's a shame I can't go back and adjust all of my audio, it's been a real burden, but we should have much better audio starting in this video coming up at least. I can't tell you how many filters, equalizers, compressors I've tried, I think what I'd need to do is export the adjusted audio as a whole and then import it in again and go through the noise cancellation again. I see that Davinci has release a new voice isolation feature in their newest version, it is only for the paid option though. I was just about to buy it but thought I should try the new mic first to try and get the problem solved at the source.
I was thinking about looking deeper in to the accel setting to see how the print quality changes with adjustments to the incremental acceleration adjustments. I see some of the newest printers have extremely high max accel, around 40K, that's going from ludicrous to INSANE I think. These printers are somewhere around 20K max, the slicer has them set quite a bit lower however.
I agree about the belts and added stresses, it's better to run it a little slower and have the longevity.
Which tests do you run for tolerances?
Ah, gotcha, that makes a lot of sense, print a bit slower when you want the confidence that it will turn out.
I run a modified version of the Tolerance Test by kvnper on MakerWorld, I recreated it in CAD to be half the height, smaller increments and to include 0.00mm and -0.025mm gap. I think the major wear components are the xy assembly and nozzle wear. I think all the other test prints are based on the filament and the solution for bad filament is to dry or buy new filament.@@NeedItMakeIt
Good test.
I was wondering this myself. Thx :)
Thanks! Having made so many slower prints on my old printers, I can see how people would still be in the mindset of slower is better. Printers these days are much more capable, we need to raise the bar! Which printers are you running?
@@NeedItMakeIt it's true. Running them at the 80% mark seems to be perfect. I think the older printers were all meant to run at slower speeds, but were essentially "overclocked" to run at more reasonable speeds, resulting in worse prints at higher speeds.
@@AvocadoAtrocity I have been checking out the FLSUN S1 printer and I cannot believe the speeds they're claiming they've reached with their Delta printers 1200mm/s with an accel of 40k. Hard to believe that in such a short time, they've changed so much. Remembering back to my abomination of the Anet A8 I started with years ago. These printers are going to run so fast that you won't see them moving. Don't reach in! This is great for us now, but I think that in a few years there will be better tech which solves a lot of the problems we see with this style of printing. We need something closer to injection molded parts if it's really going to be able to be used for industry.
question are you maxing the speed off the outer walls too? eg at default setting my flashforge 5m is 200 max outer wall speed. and 65% can we push this to 300 with no effect?
The VFAs at slow speeds are a well known issue on Bambu printers. And nobody ever found a solution, yet.
I've found a website talking about this for Voron printers and giving some advice on how to fix it, having seen it on the K1 and the X1C not to mention other prints I have made at slow speeds, I don't see any good reason to slow down your printer do you? I suppose that if you're running small parts and cooling is a problem they'll be run more slowly and could show these VFAs, not sure how often that's going to happen.
Probably won't be a solution because it is very likely hardware related. The motors themselves, pulleys, idlers, etc.
@@NeedItMakeIt you're right on small parts. I had this happen on small cubes for example. I just upped the speeds and upgraded to a high flow hotend, and I have zero issues since.
@@itsazuura Yeah seems best to keep the speeds up, and like you've done swap the hotend and you're golden, the CXY setup is limited by the hotend anyway. I suppose that the cooling is also a bit of a factor, but that's one that's pretty easy to adjust, open door, top off, or add a second AUX. I'm wondering if it would be possible to direct the AUX towards the nozzle better, but I suppose that would require a tie to the position of the head in the Y axis, which is possible, but probably more trouble than it's worth.
does it need a solution?
Good afternoon, I have been printing at my job using two, Markforged "Mark Two" using Onyx, and a Fortus 450 using ABS. They have been ok . I just purchased a X1 Carbon for myself.
I am looking at trying out some "SpiderFlex Matte Finish Flexible TPE 3D Printing Filament - Shore 40D / 90A " using the X1. I am going to use a 0.8mm tip and not run it through the AMS.
I have never really had the chance to test out various materials . Do you have any experience with this material? I am looking to make some nesting . and my potential customer requires Shore 70A. I have looked into this material and it says it can get to Shore 75A and I think this may work. Provided I can print it successfully.
I stumbled across your page and really like the content. And since you are in Ontario you are very relatable to me lol. Anyway hope alls good and if you have any insight , it would be very much appreciated. Thanks
Hey man, great video and I just subscribed! I recently got a K1 and looking to get the most out of my machine. Just wondering if you use creality print still on your K1 or if you've moved to a different slicer. Thanks!
Hey, thanks!
I wasn't too impressed with Creality Print, I rooted my K1 and I use Orca which works really well for me. It also works with my Bambu, I can easily switch back and fourth.. A little annoying that the buildplates keep changing sizes, but there's not much to do about that I think.
Let me know if you need to the links to root. Also if you do end up rooting, you'll end up getting access to Fluidd or Mainsail and that should let you get some good info about how level your bed is. I have a video on that one as well.
@@NeedItMakeIthello, is there any downside to rooting the printer?
@@NeedItMakeIt I own a K1 too and I want to root but Im a newbie
Figured I would ask. What is your opinion of the closed source nature of the Bambu?
In the past for me, user generated firmware always made big improvements to my Ender 3 V2. I am looking to upgrade now and it's either the X1C or the K1. But with the closed nature I am concerned for the longevity of the X1C.
Good question. From what I've seen, Bambu wants to be the leader, they're going to be going hard to develop what no other consumer printer company has done. Since they're pushing to innovate, I think they'll try to hang onto the closed setup they have for as long as they can as long as they're doing more than anyone else, they'll be in good shape. Personally I think we have a few years with Bambu before they too become too big and they offer too many options and bloat their company. There are some up and commers in the meantime that certainly have the speed advantage like FLSUN, but I don't have one YET and I need to test it to see whether it lives up to the hype.
Personally I'm happy with the performance of the X1C using Orca slicer, and at least we have the option to use an open slicer.
I'll be updating the firmware tonight, and we shall see if the motor noise really does have an impact on the overall sound levels and if the VFAs are also reduced. It looks like there are some other handy features they've added as well, like being able to setup your own custom filament on the printer.
I think yes to Bambu for now, but in the next couple of years, I think there will be some big changes. There will be a completely different way of 3d printing emerging for hobbyist and industry and it will be faster and more uniform in strength in all directions.
@@NeedItMakeIt OK, but I am liking that Creality too. Yes seems it needs some tweaking still but I am use to that with my old Ender 3. In your comparison seems you are using it more now. And it's on sale for $740. Quite a difference.
@@FinlessBobjust release open source firmware
Nice job! very clear. Where can I find the model test for speed for K1?
Thank you! I believe that one comes from Orca Slicer It's called the AutoDesk FDM Test.
Thank you, but I ment the one for velocy, that change speed changing layers@@NeedItMakeIt
Have you considered the kswis hot end for the k1 and the new e3d hot end for the bambo
It looks really good, I really want one but the price $$ ouch.. I think if I can get a bit more traction in YT I will start to spend a little more, this is high up on the list for sure. Made in USA as well right?
Thanks!
You're welcome! I have more coming.
I like to run my x1c at stock speeds. Never tried the boosted modes yet. E3D has a new nozzle for x1c. Supposedly 60% speed gain. I’d love to see that tested.
Sounds good, I'd like to get my hands on that Nozzle, Microswiss has one for the K1 series also, could be a good showdown between upgraded nozzles! I will add this to the list of videos. I'll reach out to the companies to see if they are willing to send me the hotends.
I have read that the VFA is in part due to the smooth idler pulleys and that if they are replaced with grooved pulleys, you reduce the VFA. Has anyone done that?
That makes a bit of sense, when the tooth interacts with the smooth pulley, it doesn't mesh and rather 'hits' the pulley upon entrance and exit. It's a good idea to test this somehow. The flexibility of the belt in that direction would probably mitigate any vibration caused by this in my mind. If it were something more rigid it might.
Wonderful
I would say the artifacting had more to deal with heat than speed on its own. The hot end lingers more on those sections which has an impact on the surface quality
Is there any plan (or even a chance) you could do a comparison of print qualities of the Snapmaker A350?
It seems no reviewer wants to touch it.
Yet it seems to be a very versatile, albeit expensive, multi function printer (3D print, Laser etch/cut and CNC) with a huge cubic foot build volume.
For me, it is what I need for my project. But is it really all that great?
I think they reached out to me a little while back. What I hesitate with is mixing machines into one. I suppose they're all CNC machines at heart, but each has their own requirements. CNC machining puts a lot of force on the components, so it will have to be made very robust, and it will likely be a very slow 3D printer if the components are made to handle the forces involved with Machining. Laser cutting and 3d printing would be more similar IMHO, forces are much less, especially laser of course. I wouldn't use a laser indoors even if I had it vented, even a little bit of that scent escaping is very potent, and can be bad to breathe in.
If something comes up, I can certainly see what we can do, my gut feeling is that they've mixed machines which are too far apart and so do not perform well enough in any category. A great concept, I just think that it is better to specialize in some cases.
A good example would be the Shopsmith combo tool, great idea, but not a good tool.
I could be wrong, I don't have one, so this is coming from my mind. I have about 25 years of experience CNC machining and a good amount 3d printing, a year or so Laser cutting, if that makes any difference at all.
You make good points, but I think Snapmaker has all that covered. CNC is not for metal, although some have cut thin soft aluminum with it. Wood will have a low force if the RPM is high and the tool advance is slow.
Laser etch/cut is behind a colored enclosure. SM also has a pretty good but expensive air filtration add-on.
My father had a Shopsmith over 65 years ago. He did some pretty impressive stuff with it.
And yes, your experience makes a big difference.
A video comparing layer adhesion versus speed on the bambu would be a good video. On default settings I've noticed parts are fairly fragile
Nice, that's a good one! Do you think the best method of this is the approach CNC kitchen takes, or is there a better way? I'm releasing a video tomorrow morning for impact resistance. The prints are remarkably durable, especially one piece that I fully expected to break off took all of my strength to try to break and I still could not break it off. I've had another experience with Silk PLA which had terrible adhesion, pieces were breaking off by blowing on it. I believe that silk needs to be printed at higher temps to avoid this, more testing required I think on that one!
Don´t forget to increase layer width e.g. 0.4mm nozzle --> 0.5mm/0.6mm layer width. You will get much better layer adhesion this way.
The 0.4mm width for 0.4mm nozzle is simply incorrect and can´t work form a physical point of view. You can´t extrude lines as wide as the nozzle opening this would mean you would extrude circles which don´t stick to the previous layer at all, that´might cause an issue with many inexperienced users as well.
Temps and speed are important (because they oppose each other) but squish is just as important.
@@sierraecho884 why doesn’t bambu do this as a default profile
@@jack91522 You will have to ask Bambu that.
@@jack91522 They do, apparently: with a 0.4mm nozzle, from 0.08 to 0.28mm Layer Height the default Line Width is 0.42 in Bambu's slicer.
I.e. the extruded width is many times the height.
I start watching this at x1.5 speed to slow down my print speed
Is your k1 rooted? Have you done seperate input shaping on x and y?😊
It is rooted Yes, I have only relied on the built-in shaping, I can look into this a bit more, do you have a walkthrough you'd recommend for it?
@@NeedItMakeIt ua-cam.com/video/s1Os-_35eRQ/v-deo.htmlsi=8Z7qVSEZo_t5tQGt
Bambu has mentioned somewhere that VFA is actually reduced at higher speeds and they recommend upping outer wall speeds in some cases. Wild eh
Apparently there has been a firmware update which applies the motor noise cancellation used on the AI to the X1 series of printers. It is also supposed to help with VFAs, I will have to do some testing to find out! Def seems to be eliminated at 150mm/s and up, but below that I can still see them.
I'm blown away at my Bambu Printer. I have only 100 hours of prints on it and
It prints flawlessly each time in sport mode. Have not run Ludacris mode yet.
No question that it's a nice printer, I think they did a good job. I can't figure out if the people that done like them are just mad that they bought other printers or maybe the have some legit problems. I literally took it out of the box removed the AMS and started printing within 15 minutes, no fussing around. As I started to use PETG again I did have some problems with Printer poop everywhere it should not be. I think it may be the quality of the PETG, since I only buy the inexpensive stuff. In any case, it's a great printer, I think Creality is catching up a bit with their printers though, there have been some updates and they are getting better results both firmware and hardware/parts, and there are some new players coming into the game with ULTRA-instinct Delta format printers.
@@NeedItMakeIt Same problem with bambu petg and petg-cf poops everywhere
@@stongench That's good to know, some people say that they don't have many problems, and others say they have it all of the time. I have to wonder what the connection is. Filament choice maybe?
This is only a visual test. What about deflection and strength (layer adhesion) and effects on strength with different filament types?
Sure, those are great ideas for a follow up video, I have some videos planned and I can certainly add your ideas in. I was thinking about also printing with a large nozzle, possibly 1mm, I'd likely replace the infill with an extra wall in the center along the length of the part. Do you think it would perform better or worse?
What keeps me from buying both high speed printers is the cost and the print volume. I need a 300 x300 by a z of 100 for what I'm doing. So I use a creality 3 Max neo. It's because they're cheaper. I have three machines and the combined cost is comparable to one fast machine.
The main thing is people need to realize is to buy what fit your needs. If the base of what you're printing is 254 mm and the machine is only 250 it's a major issue. Sure I could cut for a millimeters off but if that was the case I could get a bunch of creality standard neo and produce multiple parts at the same time. And if I have a part failure it's not a big issue. The downside is you really need to know what you're doing. I recently bought a used machine and the person changed out the bed to a PE! And original owner messed with the dual Z rods requiring me to fix the rods because there were no longer in the bearings on the overhead. It's not perfect but it now prints properly. You don't save any money by buying a used 3D printer. I went back to the glass bed and if I want to PEI but I use blue painters tape and attach it to the creality glass bed.
What is that scraper you made!
This is the only scraper I've made www.printables.com/model/360979-bambu-lab-scraper. It's not bad, but I plan on making a slightly more ergonomic version. Works well though!
What is the real max print speed of this printers? Acceleration and jerk settings?
Real max speed for the K1 is supposed to be 600mm/s for the Bambu it is rated for 500mm/s. Acceleration I believe for both printers is max 20K, but I see that in the slicer the accel settings are quite a bit lower. I'd like to see how upping the acceleration would impact the quality, pressure advance settings and ringing.
ua-cam.com/video/dpTO8f-657o/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared&t=40 Here is a video showing the general settings and results on the Bambu.
Thank you for the fastest response
@@dhanabalarumugam397 No problem! The video did a great job showing the differences, I'm actually pretty impressed, now I want to max out my acceleration settings to see how that impacts print quality. There are new printers coming out or that have already been released which have 40K accelerations, and 1200mm/s speeds, at that speed you won't see the print head moving, you'll just see a blur. It's getting to the point of being dangerous if you were to get too close while it's printing. Still very cool though
great video! but why do you upload videos with bad audio.? it is so hard to solve the problem....maybe some chapters are okay with voiceover.
For years I struggles with trying to get better audio, have a listen to any of my newer videos and that should tell you that the problem has been solved. I would spend hours and hours editing audio, the problem in the end was the device. I moved to the Rode Wireless ME and that was the end of that.
There is really bad high pitch noise in the sound of this video. It's near impossible to watch it on the headphones
swap to 0.9 motors, it will improve everything. i also swapped whole gantry and installed carbon rods on my k1 max. completly different level. no strange noises anymore, tolerances are crazy, it now can do 0.05 clearance. 0.2mm they use on stls are mostly to wobbly now :/
When I first received the K1, I sent them a message about the CF rods, they told me that it was best to leave them as-is. Are you able to tell me where to look for those rods and bushes? Sounds like a really nice bunch of upgrades!
Let it be known VFAs are a problem on the K1 series as well. Bambu seems to have it better worked out. I dont own a Bambu and I'm not part of their bot army but simply speaking from my frustrating experience with trying to "tune" it out of a K1 Max
Moreso on the K1 from my testing, but both similar issues between the K1 and X1C a slow speeds. The K1 seems to have very faint VFAs as speeds increase but they are incredibly difficult to see even with all of the lighting I've thrown at it. I should probably have tested PETG, I think it would have been a bit better. Next time...
I can't speak to the Bot army, what I can say is that I can whip a print out in 2 hours that would have taken 7-8 hours just 6 months ago, that and the quality is better, there is less blobbing and stringing and I can be far more confident that I can produce a part and ship it out. For me, these printers make a big difference. Everyone is going to use them for different reasons, printing gidgets and widgets and fidgets and such.
Do you have a brand of printer you'd get behind? Voron printers or another?
@@NeedItMakeIt I'm not the guy you replied to, but the only two other comparable mass-produced pre-assembled printers in the enclosed CoreXY format that I'm aware of are the Qidi 3-series and the Flashforge Adventurer 5M series. I have the Qidi X-Plus 3 with the upgraded tool head (Qidi have been steadily making improvements over time and the printers you buy today are different in a number of small ways to the ones from even 3-4 months ago), and the Creality K1.
The Flashforge 5M Pro is meant to print really well. It runs a locked down Klipper with bizarre restrictions on network printing. Print quality and speed are definitely in the same class as the BambuLab printers.
The Qidi X-Plus 3 (which costs around US$570 on sale with coupons, or ~$600 off-sale with coupons) is like a quasi-industrial grade CoreXY for consumers. Its big selling points, aside from the enclosed high-speed CoreXY format, is its chamber heater and 350C nozzle temps, allowing for easier printing of certain Nylon and PC blends. The upper end of its operational range could conceptually print PEKK, albeit slowly, but I've never attempted that.
There are a handful of other budget grade enclosed CoreXY printers from smaller manufacturers, but from what I've seen of them in various reviews, they are not quite in the same class as Creality, BambuLab, Qiditech, or Flashforge.
I don't think you'd see much difference on such a smooth print for speed tests. Emboss some text or a pattern. Speed eats details in sharp turns when having to slow down and speed up drastically.
That's why flow rate tests have nice and continuous curves, it doesn't get in the way of the flow rate.
I have plans on doing a follow up of a detailed print a few people wanted to see this as well. I have some ideas on how to do this while also creating a tower to make it easy to compare. Thanks for that info, it would be nice to see on a real print and I think I know how to do it.
@@NeedItMakeIt Different usecases have differents constraints and parameters. It's impossible to cover everything in 1 test.
Your video on warping covers that really well. looking forward to future tests!
Thanks for the great work.
@@Pumpkinwaffle Absolutely, we could spend all year testing each different scenario. I think this idea will cover most of what we want, at least to give a general sense, I can also do shorts which act as follow ups to the videos, I don't know if that's a good idea, but maybe it's worth a try.
For the warpage video I have a few ideas based on some feedback already, we may do a few quick follow ups to that one as well.
Hey, my pleasure! We'll keep it going, I'd like to get to 3 vids/wk every week, so we'll see if we can there.
I think there is a misunderstanding in general with all high speed printers. Yes, they are high speed but with what? PLA (some sort of special high speed pla) , what about ABS, Nylon, PC or even PETG , going +200mm/s ? Seems a waste to buy a high speed printer and not being able to use the full potential (aka speeds) with other filaments except PLA.
Absolutely, we're looking at something like 1/2 the speeds with PETG as PLA, and with ABS it seems like we're about 2/3rd the speed. There's a lot more to it than that, some brands are so far off from the general flow rates. I have a PETG I have been struggling with and it needs to be run on the K1 with 280 nozzle to get good results, and I'm running it at 13 flow, that's the temp range of PC, which is very strange. There are some new nozzle options which have come out, both for Bambu and for the Creality. If you want I can see if I can get my hands on some and perform some tests and maybe put out a video showing the differences from stock. I'm pretty sure anyone with a Voron has already done these things, but we don't all have Vorons, maybe it's worthwhile?
@@NeedItMakeIt Yes what are the best nozzle upgrades for the K1? Have one for 🎅🏻
@@marktaylor9616 LOL, you're hilarious. I have a few nozzles on the way for high-flow, I'd love to do some testing on this. I think our printers can go far faster if we do a swap. I will add this to the list of videos I have going. It looks like there is a beautiful... yet pricey upgrade from Micro-swiss, reviews look good so far, I think this is a good contender for a hotend swap, but we can also look at just the nozzles, that would be far cheaper!
Not sure I agree with the idea of the K1 having a better flow rate as you mention the volcano type hot end on the K1 the X1 seems to have just as long of a heat zone as the K1 just in a different format
All good, I'm happy to discuss with anyone; I really like to get another perspective to get a better overall understanding. There is a lot to know.
In these tests and others I have performed, the flow of the Bambu Hotend could not keep up, I believe it is more related to the material of the nozzle and the thermal conductivity of that material. The X1C runs the hardened steel which is quite a bit less thermally conductive than the nozzle that the Creality runs as stock. I suppose a better test would be to outfit the Bambu with the brass/copper alloy nozzle which would be on the P1 series printers, the X1 runs a stainless nozzle, which is not much better depending on how it's alloyed.
If there is some interest, I'd be more than happy to run some flow tests on each printer and post a video. I have another 2 printers coming and I can also add them in when they arrive.
E3D has released an expensive hotend upgrade for the Bambu, it looks really nice, but it is a little up there for the average person to justify. e3d-online.com/products/hf-obx-bambu
Yet he had to keep raising the temp of the Bambu hot end and with the K1 it wasn't necessary at all
Yet in your conclusion you didn't mention once that the Creality K1 didn't need to have it's hot end temperature raised at all, you just increased it a little just in case where as you HAD to raise the temp of the Bambu printers hot end over 40 degrees so it wouldn't fail. I'd call that a massive failure on the Bambu's part.
45 seconds in. I'm going to make a guess. I bet those printers produce ridiculously good quality prints slowed down just a little
You probably didn't use the regular speed pla for the slow speed. This is more interesting because with them you couldn't use high speed anyway. These filaments are still cheaper and more available
That's right, I used high speed PLA, though I've just about run out, and I think we need to stay using the standard PLA, it's far cheaper, and with a different nozzle/hotend design we can reach the higher speeds. I don't agree with paying 2X the price for the filament. I do have to say that the Creality High speed has very tight tolerances, it has produced some of the nicest prints I've ever made, but I'm paying for it... I can always do follow up testing if you guys would like something else tested or to make tests on certain filaments.
Im pretty sure that MANY users tend to use cheap filament. A test with cheap filament would be very userull.and appreciated. In my case i use sub 10€ filament, printed hundreds of kgs with those
@@BADGOY-45 Now that's a good idea. I've been printing with cheap for years as well with pretty good results, one supplier gave me trouble, but this is a great idea. What is your cheap brand of choice if you don't mind me asking?
@@NeedItMakeIt GST3D Europe (to not be confused with the american one that had many problems). Had minor issues with some spools like tangled filament or spools that needed to be dryed but other than that i printed a ton of figures and functional parts. If i have to be honest other than printing speed i could not see a difference from bambu filament
The "bumps" aka side wall inconsistencies on the bambu prints are awful. I've seen that on prints from older printers, but never on the Bambu. You said you thought it could be over extrusion. I suppose it could be, but I think it is more likely that you need to check your belt tension. Also, if you think the lidar is giving you bad settings for flow, I recommend running the built in manual tests on each different brand/color of filament in Orca slicer, then just saving those stats with the settings for each filament.
Its certainly worth looking into deeper, I've not adjusted belt tension at all, and It could help a little bit. I think that we do have a bit of over-extrusion, you can see it mainly on the top layer where it does not have a place for the filament so it creates little peaks, very small but still there. It's worth dialing in a little more. I like to use the features on the machine mainly because I do not use the same filament, I use all types and brands, sticking with one type and brand would be far easier to calibrate.
I've had prints with excellent results on the Bambu, I've had a print that turned out so well that it looked like it was resin printed.
I think that my methods of showing these parts in the videos may be a little extreme and they tend to highlight the problem areas more than what anyone would be used to seeing at home, so maybe I'll have to find a different method, something with some method of measuring maybe?
Interesting video thanks for wasting the filament for us! Now what about something with detail?? So a cat for instance with fur and eyes... its all well and good knowing speeds for flat cubes but many of us print detailed models and that would be much more relevant to know. Cheers
I get ya, the tower idea is best to compare levels against each other within one shot, separate prints make it very difficult, I could slice a model up with details like you suggest and then make it into a tower, so I think that can work alright. Can you add a link to a model you'd like to see?
Why is you bed adhesion so bad that you need to apply the glue and use the brim?
I do it to ensure a 100% chance of success on each print. My prints are always made very heavy, 6 walls 6 tops, 5 bottoms, 35% infill. the probability of warpage is far higher than a 2 wall 15% infill. There's no question that I could dial in some of the settings a bit more, but for the sake of a stick of glue and a little wash up time, it's far better to use it than to not. On the other side of things, I usually print PETG and adhesion can be too much that it ruins the buildplate, I use gluestick in that case as a way to separate the print without damaging the plate.
I'd like to test out some textured buildplates, however I keep everything on the printers as stock as possible for my videos.
Can you tell me how you go about not using glue stick and some of the kinds of prints you'd make which would not warp?
Sold as Sticky build plates but still need glue stick
I've had some success, but it's not 100% reliable on every part, the forces involved are up there, personally I'd like to be safe and not have to worry about my prints ever coming off during the print, that includes any corners coming away. I made a video on this subject a week or two ago, with heavy duty prints, you can't stop the warp, but you can at least keep the part adhered to the buildplate. I should issue a challenge to see who has the best methods. I'd would be really helpful to get to the bottom of adhesion once and for all, some materials are going to be tough to get good results with.
What do you have against using glue stick?
@@joeking433 One of the cheapest things you can buy, they last a long time, they work extremely well, I have no idea. I think that it's just one of those things, please fall into a group, and if you're not part of the group... well you are not worthy.
I suppose that if you print thin light duty parts, you may not need it, I've never been able to do that, the parts warp too much and need to be held down well.
@@NeedItMakeIt I usually don't need glue stick and all I basically print is PLA but occasionally I'll put some glue stick on it if certain parts are coming off. And it works well for the next 10 prints or so. I just don't see a problem with using something that works so well.
*PLEASE GOD FIX YOUR MIC*
There is an ear piercing high frequency noise every time you speak. Check frequency graph of you can't hear. Ty.
I appreciate the video but it's extremely hard to bear.
I hate to say it but all of these nerds that want fast printing don’t realize fast won’t = good.
I don't really think you hate to say that... So the question is: Is slower always going to be better than faster as far as results go? In this video I showed that too slow with these two printers results in VFAs but 'regular slow' gives good results. So is faster ever better than slower? I would imagine that it will be just as good with development in the areas that it struggles, like cooling, and layer adhesion, in some cases at incredibly high speeds extrusion rate keeping up and tolerances suffer a little bit at the max.
I had a conversation years ago with a fellow who said to me 'we've already improved everything as much as we can, there isn't any way you can do better'.... He was not only wrong, but that way of thinking is limiting yourself. I really depends on your goals, but if you want to be successful in whatever it is that you're doing, you need to find ways to improve. A fast print can be as good as a slow print, but it takes development to solve the problems, or take a different approach completely to avoid the problems completely, like this method. www.massivit3d.com/blog/why-gel-based-3d-printing-is-the-way-forward/ There is a better concept also, I'll try to track down that video link as well.
In the end, where are we going with all of this? In my case, I like to fix things, anything that breaks, or anything that I need I want to be able to design and print it, when I do, I want it to last. That's my goal. Everyone will have their own, but the ability to make something on-demand without having to buy it offshore is one of the driving factors for the demand, and our impatience drives the need-for-speed.
Why use glue stick? its so pointless. never had to use it.
Solid video ......f the tik tok gen we still need content like this
Thank you! I'm with you, I stay away from Tik Tok videos myself. I do make the occasional YT short, but they're supposed to be educational, and I always reach the 1 minute limit. It is very hard to fit everything into 1 minute and have it make sense. I try, but I don't know whether I succeed at that.
Thanks for the support I really appreciate it!