In Nashville in the 90s, the cbs affiliate had 3rd Rd PGA tour golf preëmpted by several different preachers that bought time. On Saturday afternoons. It drove me crazy.
Thats a pretty big oversight in this analysis of this preemption. There comes a point where the affiliate stands to gain more from selling the time slot directly to an entity (church or infomercial) vs selling advertising slots for the network programming (NFL 85). I'm surprised the affiliates weren't required to air the pregame show as a stipulation for also airing NFL games, like a package deal. I guess it all depends on what the church was paying the affiliate for that time. I'd guess that the pregame show ad slots would be more valuable, but you'd have to know what the church was paying. That's the reason why a lot of those church shows and infomercials tend to be early weekend mornings- the time is a lot cheaper to purchase.
As a native of Kansas and a fan of both the Kansas City Chiefs and the Kansas Jayhawks, this is quite possibly the single most interesting video you have ever produced.
I remember the coach’s show when I was a kid - in my case, it was Arkansas and Lou Holtz. Speaking for myself that was FAR more important than any NFL pregame show.
Coach's shows were big deals back when only a few games were on TV. It was in many cases your only chance to see actual game footage of your team. By 1985 they were kind of past their prime.
@@pronkb000 Ohio State's football program still has a coach's show on both TV _and_ radio. In some markets, the radio coach's show has been known to air on tape-delayed status.
I'm wondering how in the world KSNW managed to avoid getting slammed by NBC for preempting not only NFL '85 but also Meet the Press. I wonder if some of those were local church shows (since I recognized the nationally televised TV preacher names)
@@MarloSoBalJr At this point in _Meet The Press'_ run, it aired at noon ET Sundays, right before _NFL '8x/_ _NFL Live_ at 12:30 ET during the fall. It didn't expand to a 60-minute offering until 1991. I can remember WKYC airing _Meet The Press_ on delay in the afternoon once when it didn't have a late NFL game.
@@drewzuhosky6826If you look at the NYC TV listings from 1985 in TV Guide Metro NYC edition, channel 4 had “Meet The Press” at noon, and “NFL ‘85” at 12:30PM Eastern Time, and WNBC-TV did had a happy ending. No preemptions at all.
This unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian will remind everyone you made a video about how a Chiefs-Chargers game that year saw its ending preempted by “60 Minutes”.
I feel like he did another video about a station pre-empting pregame coverage, but I can’t remember when or where. Maybe I’m getting it confused with the multiple videos about stations refusing to air entire games.
I remember when WFLA-8, the NBC affiliate in the Tampa Bay area would bump the 12:30 NFL pregame show from its 1975 debut until about 1983 or '84 for football highlight reels, either from the Univ. of Florida or NFL Films.
Yeah I'd imagine a show starring a Kansas HC that isn't with Mangino or Leipold has to be insightful. "Coach, after the 72-3 loss to Oklahoma, how are you going to bounce back against Nebraska, who were leading KU 42-7 at halftime last year?"
I don't know which is worse, the blowout losses to Oklahoma and Nebraska, or they played Vandy, Indiana State and Eastern Illinois in that same season.
I remember growing up as a kid in the 80s. On Sunday before the NFL pre game shows it was either fishing shows or religious shows. And one of them was a fire and brimstone show called The World of Tomorrow and scared me with their montage countdown of nuclear annihilation. But hey, up next Brent Musburger, here on NFL on CBSSSSSSSSS.
I remember as a kid back in the 80’s arguing with my parents we should skip church and just stay home and watch the religious shows. I wanted to watch the NFL pregame shows and instead we were sitting in church. It sucked.
@@Digiidude Not only that, out of all of the religious programming were on Sunday mornings, one of them was “Davey & Goliath”, a series of stop motion animated religious shorts which was made by Art Clokey, the same guy who did “Gumby”, and it was produced for the Lutheran Church in America during the 1960’s and 1970’s, and it does have religious themes.
Having family in the Wichita area during that time period, I completely understand the hours and hours of televangelists but am stunned by coach's show. That area was an oversized bulge on the Bible Belt but leaned nearly 50\25\25 towards OU, KU, & K-State respectfully. Maybe even heavier that that towards OU
Kansas is heavily in the Bible Belt. I would not be surprised if the owner of the station was A) highly religious, and B) an alum of the University of Kansas, and a big donor to both the church of his choice, and to the university. Living in Phoenix at that time, I had to put up with station ID's for KOOL-10, Channel 10 (the CBS affiliate then, now KTSP, owned by none other than Rupert Murdoch), that ALWAYS included this sentence: "Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord." (To which I always replied, "Thank God, I'm an Athiest." ;) )
Well, at least WSVN in Miami still airs Fox’s pregame show instead of a noon newscast on Sundays. Could you imagine how viewers would be furious if WSVN aired an hour of news, rather than Fox’s pregame show.
Which network's NFL pregame show one watches on Sundays usually depends on which network is televising the game you want to watch, especially if it's your local team. As an example, if your local hometown team is playing a Sunday afternoon game on CBS, you'd watch "The NFL Today"; whereas if your local team was playing a Sunday afternoon game on Fox, you'd be likely to watch "Fox NFL Sunday".
When it comes to Ahmad Rashad, in addition to the NFL, he was also a sideline reporter for the NBA On NBC during its run (1990-2002) & covered the Olympics from 1988-2000. In fact he was the one to interview Ben Johnson after he set that 9.79 time in the 100m at the 1988 Summer Olympics which was later thrown out after Johnson had tested positive for PED's. Now as it relates to NFL 85 not being shown, it is very similar to what ITV did in the early 2000's with the Premier League across the UK in which instead of previewing the day's matches, they showed highlights from the lower leagues of English soccer from the previous day (the EFL Championship all the way down to the National League which features semi pro clubs) before hand simply because they had the exclusive broadcast rights to those leagues. Like with this, ITV had the option of showing these highlights late at night like they had done during the 1990's but simply chose not because they did not want to move around their other programming. Fans of the Premier League had to pay for satellite dishes in order to get any pre-match analysis from Sky Sports. This angered the Premier League so much that after the 2002-2003 season, ITV lost the broadcast rights & Sky Sports became the exclusive broadcaster of the league in the UK until 2020 when Amazon & BT Sport got the rights to select matches per season.
@@AvaZinn He was also the original host of NBA Inside Stuff. Ahmad Rashad even once filled in for Marv Albert as host of NBC's Major League Baseball pre-game show "An Inside Look" during the 1987 season (on April 25, 1987 to be precise).
Just wanted to mention a slight correction At 4:25 you mention that the football fans in Kansas City couldn't watch "NFL'85". Kansas City fans weren't affected as WDAF their NBC affiliate aired "NFL'85"
Reagan era = check Bible Belt = check I wish I could say I'm surprised by a station in Kansas in 1985 showing hours upon hours of "religious programming" instead of airing an NFL pre-game show. Sadly this seems about par for the course given the time and place.
There are those who would say that President and time & place are far superior to the buffoon in the White House now and the crazy world we live in today.
A similar fate like this would happen again, but it was unrelated to the NFL. According to Wikipedia, a TV station in Tallahassee, Florida got pulled from Comcast cable systems in 2001 because they were airing home shopping instead of UPN programs on the slot, but I don't know if the XFL was affected.
I could understand KSNW not broadcasting an NFL pregame show on a one time only basis if the pregame show was pre-empted for live coverage of a special news event that ended at 1 P.M. Eastern time.
KSN is a conglomerate of about a half dozen Kansas TV stations that includes the Wichita affiliate. Did this happen in other parts of Kansas as well? I think all of them are part of NBC.
Correct - KSNW 3 is the flagship station of the Kansas State Network. The other stations - KSNC 2 in Great Bend, KS, KSNK 8 in Oberlin, Kansas-McCook, NE, and KSNG 11 in Garden City - are simulcasters of KSNW. (There's also a low-power station, KSNL in Salina, that only joined the network in 2008.)
WJW Fox 8 in Cleveland, Ohio has pre-empted the first hour of Fox NFL Sunday for years. During football season they air their in-house Browns show. Outside of football season it's a half hour of local news and a real estate show.
Although it is not football related, WJW, when it was a CBS affiliate, refused to air NCAA basketball games during the regular season in, if memory serves me correctly, the 1982-83 season. They did air the tournament. This was one of the reasons that I encouraged the family to get cable, since at the time, it also carried CBS affiliate WBNS from Columbus, so that I could watch the games.
Its a different sport, but there were multiple times where the 1st hour of the 12:30pm/11:30am NBA on ABC games would get cut off for televangelism (For Whosoever Will Ministries) on my local ABC station
hey dude i want to give some advice because ive found myself not watching as much of your content anymore. You really gotta shorten these into Shorts or something. theres 0 reason this should be a 15 minute video and a grand majority of the info provided has nothing to do with the incident, it really just reads like padding the video length far beyond any reasonable expectation. This is me trying to give constructive feedback, not being a troll or a hater. good luck in the future
Eh I’ll give him a pass on this one. He’s setting the scene and context. It’s a lot worse when he rattles off detailed stats of teams he’s covering in videos that have to do with off the field drama
And for those of you have not know, Lowell Lundstrom was an evangelist, and also a country/gospel singer of the 1950’s and 1960’s as part of Lundstroms where they put out a series of country/gospel albums during that time. And hosted his own religious show. But sadly, he passed away in 2012.
WNBC-TV (channel 4) did aired the NFL pregame show back in 1985, and it wasn’t the problem, because it was on the east coast. They already finished up many of the Public Affairs talk shows during the morning. At 10:30AM, channel 4 ran “Visiones”, a magazine show, 11AM was “First Estate” was a religious show, 11:30AM was “News 4orum”, 12PM was “Meet The Press”, and finally at 12:30PM, channel 4 ran “NFL ‘85” which was a pregame show. NYC was lucky that WNBC-TV never preempted the whole thing, and just go straight to “NFL ‘85” and they’ll be safe.
It's my understanding that network O&Os, like WNBC, are required to show what the network is showing. These stations cannot preempt network programming since they are owned by the networks.
@@raymondhopwood9393s! But this is what I’m talking about, an NBC affiliate did aired on Sunday afternoons like “Meet The Press” and “NFL ‘85” pregame show on WNBC-TV. But in Wichita, KA, another NBC affiliate did aired whenever they want it to preempted the “NFL ‘85” pregame and “Meet The Press”, and that was KSNW-TV. As for WNBC-TV, it was a win-win to air a pregame show called “NFL ‘85” with Bob Costas which was after “Meet The Press”.
@@raymondhopwood9393 Indeed-- if WCBS Channel 2 of NYC didn't have The NFL Today at 12:30 w/Brent, Irv, et al., CBS management would be up in arms and deservedly so, because WCBS is the O&O of the Big Apple, and the Big Apple is also where CBS Sports facilities were (in the CBS Broadcast Center, Studio 43).
From the Sunday morning schedule mentioned in this clip, it appears that KNSW probably didn't clear the long-running NBC political panel show "Meet The Press", which although premiering in 1947, has been broadcast on Sunday mornings since 1965.
Yes! An NBC station in Wichita, KA hasn’t aired “Meet The Press” since 1965, and all they have is nothing but religious programming from 7AM until 11AM. Over in NYC, WNBC-TV ran some religious stuff and public affairs on Sunday mornings, plus “Meet The Press” and a pregame show called “NFL ‘85” which came on after “Meet The Press”. They might give channel 4 in NYC a pat on the back, since they aired two of their network programming along with a pregame show, they did the right thing, but not in Wichita.
This got me thinking... I wish local markets could air their own pregame shows instead of the national pregame show. For example, WJZ or WBFF could air a Ravens-themed pregame show instead of showing the NFL Today or Fox NFL Sunday depending on the network assigned to the game. This would allow fans of the local team to get a hyper-focused pregame show for their team instead of having to listen to talk about all the other games and all the other teams.
Funny you should say that, because there was a different controversy involving a Kansas City station in 1991 where they did something like that. More on that later this offseason...
@@ScambaiterX Same thing. WBAL would air a special Ravens pregame show at 7:30. Since they're also the radio home of the Ravens, they could even simulcast the radio pregame show to the TV channel.
The FOX and CBS affiliates here in the Tampa Bay Area used to have Sunday pregame shows devoted to the Buccaneers, but those didn't air in the 2022-23 season.
WNBC-TV (channel 4) in New York City did aired the “NFL ‘85” pregame show at 12:30PM right after “Meet The Press”, and channel 4 did the right thing to air network programming rather than preempting for another program, and channel 4 had a happy ending.
Or when Sunday Morning with Charles Kuralt had to be on WKRN Channel 2 in Nashville (meaning that the ABC station in Music City had a temporary CBS affiliation because WTVF Channel 5 had religious stuff when Sunday Morning would normally be on [9 A.M. to 10:30 A.M., the slot it still has today]).
Addendum to that: found out through seeing some old TV Guides from Louisiana that I got at an antique store in Daphne (was staying with my sister down there) that Sunday Morning wasn't on any of the CBS stations in that Louisiana edition; it was all religious shows, all the way, on every CBS station [not even WWL Channel 4 in the Big Easy was immune]).
All they had to do was put the Jayhawks program on either the Independent or ABC station in Wichita or if it had to be on the NBC station there just air it later on the same day. That way both sides would win.
That's a ton of religious shows for a network affiliate! I'm not sure that even WFTS-TV, which was independent back then and aired religious programming under its original owner, devoted this much time to such programming in the morning. As for the Wichita DMA, it may not be KU's primary DMA (Kansas City area), but the Jayhawks are popular throughout Kansas. With that said, the Chiefs and Cowboys are popular there and that 11:30 a.m. CT timeslot on Sundays should've been devoted to the NFL. KSNW's program director was a hack!
@@Digiidude I forgot to mention that WFTS-TV is here in the Tampa Bay Area, which is south of the Bible Belt. My apologies for not mentioning that. As for KSNW, part of Kansas is in the Bible Belt, but that's a lot of religious programming for a network affiliate. I would understand if, say, KSAS-TV, did that due to it signing on as an indy in '85, but the reasoning that KSNW's PD gave made no sense given that many viewers did complain about "NFL '85" being preempted so often.
@@drewzuhosky6826Here in New York City, WNBC-TV (channel 4) did aired “Meet The Press” and “NFL ‘85” pregame show which was on the east coast. An NBC affiliate did pretty well without being forced to preempt everything. Sunday mornings in NYC had a slew of religious and public affairs programming.
Wouldn’t have bothered me in the least because I never watch pregame shows. The mindless blather that passes for analysis drives me nuts, so I don’t turn the television on until time for kickoff.
WPSD in Paducah, Ky., showed a church service instead on NFL Live. That was frustrating because you want to see Bob Costas and his crew talking football games instead of hearing a preacher talking about Jesus. The only time they made an exception was during the playoffs.
I thought this was going to be about when NBC moved the pre-game show into the same studio where they taped Letterman and decided to try to utilize a studio audience. Yes, really. That may not have been 1985, though, and I'm too lazy/indifferent to look up the exact year.
You make it sound like removing 1 religious show wouldn't upset viewers or that religious viewers watch all 8 shows. There are 8 different audiences there. Also as mentioned by other commentators those religious shows are paid for.
Four damn hours of evangelical Christianity on one local station alone when you’re audience is at church. That’s what’s the matter with Kansas. Nah, that’s a bit harsh: the jayhawk state wasn’t the only place in America that programmed that way.
I’m usually a fan of JaguarGator, but in this instance, he completely flips his rant midway from “the Mike Gottfried Show ridiculously aired during the NFL ‘85 broadcast time slot in Wichita” to “there were too many church programs on in Kansas on Sunday morning in 1985” (and many who are commenting on this thread have bought into that and some used it as a chance to spew their anti-religious bias) when one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. I don’t understand why he’s so fixated on Sunday morning TV in those days. KSNW could have also picked out the following time slots to show Mike Gottfried’s show: 1. Before or after the NFL game (on non-doubleheader weeks) 2. On Saturday before or after the KU game. 3. On Sunday night after the local news. 4. At 4:00 am in the morning for all I care (no offense to all you viewers of Ag Day.) Why didn’t JaguarGator point out those? Also, KSNW wasn’t/isn’t the primary affiliate in KC. It was WDAF then and KSHB now. So, this whole thing was limited to the Wichita TV market, probably one of the smaller TV markets in the U.S.
I should’ve clarified better on that. Option 1 was out, because you want a weekly show like that to be in a consistent time Option 2 was out, because Gottfried had to be in the studio to talk about the plays, and the show physically couldn’t air on Saturdays Option 3 was out because of national NBC programming I suppose option 4 was possible, but considering that Kansas State’s show aired at 11, to do that in the wee hours of the morning would lead to complaints
@@OfficialJaguarGator9ut in New York City, WNBC-TV (channel 4) which is another NBC affiliate did the right thing to air “NFL ‘85” pregame show at 12:30PM which was on the East Coast, and it was right after “Meet The Press” at 12PM. But in Wichita, KA, they did not carried “Meet The Press”. “NFL ‘85” was a pregame show did carried on channel 4 in New York City as an NBC station. Many New Yorkers wants to see the New York Jets Vs. The New England Patriots game that are showing depending in your area which was at 4PM according to the schedule during the “NFL ‘85” pregame show on WNBC-TV in NYC.
How many times.are you gonna keep mentioning this? This is the third time since I started scrolling through the comments that I've seen this same post from you .
@@chrisp679 So what? I was replying to 3 separate comments. It just so happens that the answer to each was the same. Why are you so hot and bothered and worried about it?
I've seen shows like this even more recently. Fox Sports Ohio had shows for Ohio State and Cincinnati football. But they aired on weekdays and never took priority over LIVE SPORTS (i.e. if the Indians or Reds had a day game they wouldn't show it until a different time). If you have to show that on Sunday you could show it after the Chiefs game (or before if they had a late game).
They can't say their hands were fully tied. But I can make an argument in their favor. Church shows are paid programming. And the station makes good money relative to the cost. All they need to do is put in a tape and receive boatloads of money from the churches. They don't need to sell ads or anything. Just need a technician at station in case a technical issue happens (which you have to have regardless) So in that regard 7-11 is off the table. No you have two major college football programs in your state. Kansas and Kansas State. Both have a coaches highlight show. Airing them is goodwill win for the relationship between them and the schools especially if they air college football, and is their two local teams. But the problem is, you only have 11 til 12 available to air 2 half hour programs. Can't do one before the game and one after. What if the game goes long? Or the one before gets shown favoritism because of the time slot. And you definitely can't show one but not the other. I definitely don't need to explain that one to a college football fan. So they chose to preempt NFL 85. They might have gotten more revenue from NFL 85 than the Kansas show comparing the two side by side. But factoring in all factors, they may have made a better fiscal decision on the aggregate. One final thing to mention. Pregame shows are used to sell the games to the fans. Do you think the games ratings would go down because there was no pregame show? You said it yourself. They are in the Kansas city market. So if you wanted to watch Kansas city, you were gonna watch them regardless of a pre-show.
Yeah. Strange. Kansas and Kansas State were bad back then. Wichita State still had a team back then. If they were going to preempt the NFL '85 then why not show highlights of Wichita State games if they had them? Maybe they didn't. Otherwise makes no sense at all!!!
I'm betting all those church shows were paid programming and that's why this station spent Sunday nights airing those. Anything to turn a buck. I always found those pre-game shows to be personality-driven shit shows, period. Who cares about the opinion of these former players and coaches? Even now, I don't watch any of them. I don't even turn the TV on until a minute or two before game time. Being "sassy" or "brassy" doesn't add anything to the game-time experience. I don't blame the KNSW PD for doing what he did. I bet that Kansas coach's show had crap ratings as would the network show. No one cares.
Points you didn’t make: 1. The NFL in 1985 didn’t quite turn the screws on its junior partners, like network affiliates, like they can and will now. Pete Rozelle was a great commissioner in his time but looks like a relic and an amateur now, because he didn’t always take advantage of the league’s position. (Which admittedly was less back then than now) 2. The majority of folks in Kansas in 1985 probably WANTED televangelists on at least one station all morning, every Sunday. 3. The Chiefs were terrible in those days, their fan base was 10% of what it is now. 4. As many have pointed out, the affiliate made money on those shows. Yes, probably more lucrative than what the NFL could offer at the time. Your videos are ok Jag but sometimes I see a cultural and generational dissonance. “The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there.” 2023 is a loooooong way away from the 70s and 80s and I am not sure you always get that.
In Rozelle's defense affiliates totally ran roughshod over their parent networks for years with all the defiance of a five-year old (what you gonna do about it?!). JG could probably do a vid on the CBS/ABC affiliate swap in '76 (Spokane) that affected quite a number of sports and started with KXLY airing the then-new Good Morning America despite being a CBS affiliate, that led to KREM pre-empting a bunch of ABC shows (including the debuting Monday Night Baseball) before the switch after the Montreal Games. In that case, it's on the networks (not the NFL) to get their affiliates in line. Rozelle was long gone by the time that started happening.
Televangelists BUY the time on local TV stations to air their shows. Yes, these are the original infomercials.
As long as those programs paid up front prior to airing.
In Nashville in the 90s, the cbs affiliate had 3rd Rd PGA tour golf preëmpted by several different preachers that bought time. On Saturday afternoons. It drove me crazy.
JaguarGator9, you might have given me an idea for my #INNewsCenter called “Dumb (Broadcasting) Decisions”
Thats a pretty big oversight in this analysis of this preemption. There comes a point where the affiliate stands to gain more from selling the time slot directly to an entity (church or infomercial) vs selling advertising slots for the network programming (NFL 85). I'm surprised the affiliates weren't required to air the pregame show as a stipulation for also airing NFL games, like a package deal. I guess it all depends on what the church was paying the affiliate for that time. I'd guess that the pregame show ad slots would be more valuable, but you'd have to know what the church was paying. That's the reason why a lot of those church shows and infomercials tend to be early weekend mornings- the time is a lot cheaper to purchase.
Sadly, most church programming usually has weird and incorrect theology. Televangelists usually promoted a prosperity gospel and not a biblical one.
Did this NBC even show Meet the Press?
Good question: Doesn’t sound like it. Would that have been before Russert?
@@DanStrayer Russert joined in 1991
@@DanStrayer Marvin Kalb moderated the program at this stage.
So, this is a controversy involving a non-O&O NBC affiliate instead of NBC Network itself.
Love how you can go on the rant and its so totally justified.
As a native of Kansas and a fan of both the Kansas City Chiefs and the Kansas Jayhawks, this is quite possibly the single most interesting video you have ever produced.
I remember the coach’s show when I was a kid - in my case, it was Arkansas and Lou Holtz. Speaking for myself that was FAR more important than any NFL pregame show.
Coach's shows were big deals back when only a few games were on TV. It was in many cases your only chance to see actual game footage of your team. By 1985 they were kind of past their prime.
@@pronkb000 Ohio State's football program still has a coach's show on both TV _and_ radio. In some markets, the radio coach's show has been known to air on tape-delayed status.
In Boston, WBZ preempted NFL ‘79 for a Patriots themed program. Needless to say, though, that Westinghouse owned ‘BZ at the time.
I'm wondering how in the world KSNW managed to avoid getting slammed by NBC for preempting not only NFL '85 but also Meet the Press.
I wonder if some of those were local church shows (since I recognized the nationally televised TV preacher names)
...unless they aired _Meet The Press_ on delay later on in the afternoon or that night.
@@drewzuhosky6826WNBC-TV (channel 4) did aired “Meet The Press” at noon and then straight to “NFL ‘85” at 12:30PM. That was in New York City.
@@drewzuhosky6826 Nah, NBC wasn't having that. Meet press @ 11 am; NFL pregame show @ 12 pm... Do whatever you want from 1 am - 10:30 am
@@MarloSoBalJr At this point in _Meet The Press'_ run, it aired at noon ET Sundays, right before _NFL '8x/_ _NFL Live_ at 12:30 ET during the fall. It didn't expand to a 60-minute offering until 1991. I can remember WKYC airing _Meet The Press_ on delay in the afternoon once when it didn't have a late NFL game.
@@drewzuhosky6826If you look at the NYC TV listings from 1985 in TV Guide Metro NYC edition, channel 4 had “Meet The Press” at noon, and “NFL ‘85” at 12:30PM Eastern Time, and WNBC-TV did had a happy ending. No preemptions at all.
This unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian will remind everyone you made a video about how a Chiefs-Chargers game that year saw its ending preempted by “60 Minutes”.
I feel like he did another video about a station pre-empting pregame coverage, but I can’t remember when or where.
Maybe I’m getting it confused with the multiple videos about stations refusing to air entire games.
Damn, Ahmad Rashad was already in the booth by 1985? I AM old.
He joined NBC in 1983 upon retiring from the Vikings.
@@ricknibert6417And he also did stuff on the NBA in the 90s!
Rashad was also a sideline reporter during games.
He proposed to his now ex-wife Phylicia during halftime of the thanksgiving game that season.
I remember when WFLA-8, the NBC affiliate in the Tampa Bay area would bump the 12:30 NFL pregame show from its 1975 debut until about 1983 or '84 for football highlight reels, either from the Univ. of Florida or NFL Films.
Yeah I'd imagine a show starring a Kansas HC that isn't with Mangino or Leipold has to be insightful. "Coach, after the 72-3 loss to Oklahoma, how are you going to bounce back against Nebraska, who were leading KU 42-7 at halftime last year?"
I'm being harsh to KU, as they only lost 48-6 and 56-6 to Oklahoma and Nebraska respectively in 1985
I don't know which is worse, the blowout losses to Oklahoma and Nebraska, or they played Vandy, Indiana State and Eastern Illinois in that same season.
Nailed it
@@mkepioneet - In 1984, KU upset the then-#2 ranked Sooners in Lawrence.
I'd imagine the one where he chewed out Raimond Pendleton in 2007 was semi must see TV
"Coach, does Pendleton taste like chicken?"
I remember growing up as a kid in the 80s. On Sunday before the NFL pre game shows it was either fishing shows or religious shows. And one of them was a fire and brimstone show called The World of Tomorrow and scared me with their montage countdown of nuclear annihilation. But hey, up next Brent Musburger, here on NFL on CBSSSSSSSSS.
I remember as a kid back in the 80’s arguing with my parents we should skip church and just stay home and watch the religious shows. I wanted to watch the NFL pregame shows and instead we were sitting in church. It sucked.
Yeah, Sunday morning programming in the early 80s was all televangelists untill the pregame saved us from the boredom
@@Digiidude Not only that, out of all of the religious programming were on Sunday mornings, one of them was “Davey & Goliath”, a series of stop motion animated religious shorts which was made by Art Clokey, the same guy who did “Gumby”, and it was produced for the Lutheran Church in America during the 1960’s and 1970’s, and it does have religious themes.
Having family in the Wichita area during that time period, I completely understand the hours and hours of televangelists but am stunned by coach's show. That area was an oversized bulge on the Bible Belt but leaned nearly 50\25\25 towards OU, KU, & K-State respectfully.
Maybe even heavier that that towards OU
Kansas is heavily in the Bible Belt. I would not be surprised if the owner of the station was A) highly religious, and B) an alum of the University of Kansas, and a big donor to both the church of his choice, and to the university. Living in Phoenix at that time, I had to put up with station ID's for KOOL-10, Channel 10 (the CBS affiliate then, now KTSP, owned by none other than Rupert Murdoch), that ALWAYS included this sentence: "Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord." (To which I always replied, "Thank God, I'm an Athiest." ;) )
Hold on. “Thank god I’m an atheist”
I got questions
Well, at least WSVN in Miami still airs Fox’s pregame show instead of a noon newscast on Sundays. Could you imagine how viewers would be furious if WSVN aired an hour of news, rather than Fox’s pregame show.
Hey JG9, are we going to get vintage Dumb Decisions during the off-season?
Which network's NFL pregame show one watches on Sundays usually depends on which network is televising the game you want to watch, especially if it's your local team.
As an example, if your local hometown team is playing a Sunday afternoon game on CBS, you'd watch "The NFL Today"; whereas if your local team was playing a Sunday afternoon game on Fox, you'd be likely to watch "Fox NFL Sunday".
When it comes to Ahmad Rashad, in addition to the NFL, he was also a sideline reporter for the NBA On NBC during its run (1990-2002) & covered the Olympics from 1988-2000. In fact he was the one to interview Ben Johnson after he set that 9.79 time in the 100m at the 1988 Summer Olympics which was later thrown out after Johnson had tested positive for PED's.
Now as it relates to NFL 85 not being shown, it is very similar to what ITV did in the early 2000's with the Premier League across the UK in which instead of previewing the day's matches, they showed highlights from the lower leagues of English soccer from the previous day (the EFL Championship all the way down to the National League which features semi pro clubs) before hand simply because they had the exclusive broadcast rights to those leagues. Like with this, ITV had the option of showing these highlights late at night like they had done during the 1990's but simply chose not because they did not want to move around their other programming. Fans of the Premier League had to pay for satellite dishes in order to get any pre-match analysis from Sky Sports. This angered the Premier League so much that after the 2002-2003 season, ITV lost the broadcast rights & Sky Sports became the exclusive broadcaster of the league in the UK until 2020 when Amazon & BT Sport got the rights to select matches per season.
Not to mention hosting Cesars Challenge in 1994
@@AvaZinn He was also the original host of NBA Inside Stuff. Ahmad Rashad even once filled in for Marv Albert as host of NBC's Major League Baseball pre-game show "An Inside Look" during the 1987 season (on April 25, 1987 to be precise).
@@TMC1982Part2 Yep.
When Phil Simms was at NBC, he once was a sideline reporter for an NBA telecast.
"The CHIEFS?!... Pfft, sounds like a MISSOURI problem"
-Wichita, Kansas NBC-affiliate 🗿
KSNW wanted to make sure everybody got their prayer in damn 8 consecutive church programs
except the Catholics and Jewish
Just wanted to mention a slight correction
At 4:25 you mention that the football fans in Kansas City couldn't watch "NFL'85".
Kansas City fans weren't affected as WDAF their NBC affiliate aired "NFL'85"
WNBC-TV (channel 4) in New York City did aired “NFL ‘85” at 12:30PM ET and thankfully, an NBC affiliate in the city doesn’t want to preempt anything.
Reagan era = check
Bible Belt = check
I wish I could say I'm surprised by a station in Kansas in 1985 showing hours upon hours of "religious programming" instead of airing an NFL pre-game show. Sadly this seems about par for the course given the time and place.
You can go to hell
It is and was
There are those who would say that President and time & place are far superior to the buffoon in the White House now and the crazy world we live in today.
Oh boy my favorite: Network Blunders😊
I know which channel I would have not watched in 1985, on Sunday mornings, had I lived in Wichita.
A similar fate like this would happen again, but it was unrelated to the NFL. According to Wikipedia, a TV station in Tallahassee, Florida got pulled from Comcast cable systems in 2001 because they were airing home shopping instead of UPN programs on the slot, but I don't know if the XFL was affected.
I could understand KSNW not broadcasting an NFL pregame show on a one time only basis if the pregame show was pre-empted for live coverage of a special news event that ended at 1 P.M. Eastern time.
I remember Mike Godfried doing the color on ESPN college prime time
He and Ron Franklin were the best! Shame that Ron Franklin got fired from ESPN and never worked again.
That where I know him from more than his coaching career.
KSN is a conglomerate of about a half dozen Kansas TV stations that includes the Wichita affiliate. Did this happen in other parts of Kansas as well? I think all of them are part of NBC.
Correct - KSNW 3 is the flagship station of the Kansas State Network. The other stations - KSNC 2 in Great Bend, KS, KSNK 8 in Oberlin, Kansas-McCook, NE, and KSNG 11 in Garden City - are simulcasters of KSNW. (There's also a low-power station, KSNL in Salina, that only joined the network in 2008.)
@@brycelandon6387 At least in McCook they can watch the Grand Island-Lincoln NBC affiliate.
Did anyone actually want an in depth analysis of Kansas football games in 1985?
WJW Fox 8 in Cleveland, Ohio has pre-empted the first hour of Fox NFL Sunday for years. During football season they air their in-house Browns show. Outside of football season it's a half hour of local news and a real estate show.
With Andre Knott fulfilling one of his six jobs as the host.
Although it is not football related, WJW, when it was a CBS affiliate, refused to air NCAA basketball games during the regular season in, if memory serves me correctly, the 1982-83 season. They did air the tournament. This was one of the reasons that I encouraged the family to get cable, since at the time, it also carried CBS affiliate WBNS from Columbus, so that I could watch the games.
Its a different sport, but there were multiple times where the 1st hour of the 12:30pm/11:30am NBA on ABC games would get cut off for televangelism (For Whosoever Will Ministries) on my local ABC station
hey dude i want to give some advice because ive found myself not watching as much of your content anymore. You really gotta shorten these into Shorts or something. theres 0 reason this should be a 15 minute video and a grand majority of the info provided has nothing to do with the incident, it really just reads like padding the video length far beyond any reasonable expectation.
This is me trying to give constructive feedback, not being a troll or a hater. good luck in the future
I agree 100%! I like JG but his rants go way too long.
He does shorts of some of these videos too, so these are the more detailed versions
Eh I’ll give him a pass on this one. He’s setting the scene and context. It’s a lot worse when he rattles off detailed stats of teams he’s covering in videos that have to do with off the field drama
@@cancerstinks1 understandable
It is very likely the religious programming paid the station to air the shows. So those time slots were out.
Where I live some church shows start at 6 am and run til the news shows start at 9 or 930.
And for those of you have not know, Lowell Lundstrom was an evangelist, and also a country/gospel singer of the 1950’s and 1960’s as part of Lundstroms where they put out a series of country/gospel albums during that time. And hosted his own religious show. But sadly, he passed away in 2012.
The good news was that NFL fans in Wichita didn't have to worry in 1986 because Gottfried took the head coaching job at Pitt.
Pitt still hasn't recovered from that!
I want to know why ads continue to unpause themself when I pause them
WNBC-TV (channel 4) did aired the NFL pregame show back in 1985, and it wasn’t the problem, because it was on the east coast. They already finished up many of the Public Affairs talk shows during the morning. At 10:30AM, channel 4 ran “Visiones”, a magazine show, 11AM was “First Estate” was a religious show, 11:30AM was “News 4orum”, 12PM was “Meet The Press”, and finally at 12:30PM, channel 4 ran “NFL ‘85” which was a pregame show. NYC was lucky that WNBC-TV never preempted the whole thing, and just go straight to “NFL ‘85” and they’ll be safe.
Someone else from Colorado
It's my understanding that network O&Os, like WNBC, are required to show what the network is showing. These stations cannot preempt network programming since they are owned by the networks.
@@raymondhopwood9393s! But this is what I’m talking about, an NBC affiliate did aired on Sunday afternoons like “Meet The Press” and “NFL ‘85” pregame show on WNBC-TV. But in Wichita, KA, another NBC affiliate did aired whenever they want it to preempted the “NFL ‘85” pregame and “Meet The Press”, and that was KSNW-TV. As for WNBC-TV, it was a win-win to air a pregame show called “NFL ‘85” with Bob Costas which was after “Meet The Press”.
@@raymondhopwood9393 Indeed-- if WCBS Channel 2 of NYC didn't have The NFL Today at 12:30 w/Brent, Irv, et al., CBS management would be up in arms and deservedly so, because WCBS is the O&O of the Big Apple, and the Big Apple is also where CBS Sports facilities were (in the CBS Broadcast Center, Studio 43).
did any station in Wichita carry the OU and OSU coaches shows back then?
From the Sunday morning schedule mentioned in this clip, it appears that KNSW probably didn't clear the long-running NBC political panel show "Meet The Press", which although premiering in 1947, has been broadcast on Sunday mornings since 1965.
Yes! An NBC station in Wichita, KA hasn’t aired “Meet The Press” since 1965, and all they have is nothing but religious programming from 7AM until 11AM. Over in NYC, WNBC-TV ran some religious stuff and public affairs on Sunday mornings, plus “Meet The Press” and a pregame show called “NFL ‘85” which came on after “Meet The Press”. They might give channel 4 in NYC a pat on the back, since they aired two of their network programming along with a pregame show, they did the right thing, but not in Wichita.
10:39 You missed a part there make "a lot" of money on the show but one dollar is a one dollar profit then airing a show you can't sell commercials on
Why Pre games shows are horrible to watch they don’t tell you anything but their opinions on who’s going to win and most of the time their wrong
Don't forget all the Broncos fans in western Kansas who are stuck watching the Wichita affiliates
all 5 of them
The CBS station in Beaumont,Texas also show Church programming before showing CBS NFL Today's in progress since 1998
When does the NBC Sunday night movie air????
It's not about the NBC Network.. local station made this decision.
Ahhh, nostalgia. Grew up on the Pat Jones show. And yes, growing up in the Bible belt means Sunday morning televangelist marathons haha
That opening is very unrealistic for me. I rarely watch the talking heads.
Hello, Local commercials make more money for the station. Than network or most syndicated shows
In Central Timezone, something of an old west feel with early games starting at noon.
this station aired the Kstate and kU bball coaches shows on Saturday in the 80s
Why wasn't KU's show not shown after the late news (10 p.m.)?
or 4AM?
That’s too much Jeebus!
This got me thinking...
I wish local markets could air their own pregame shows instead of the national pregame show. For example, WJZ or WBFF could air a Ravens-themed pregame show instead of showing the NFL Today or Fox NFL Sunday depending on the network assigned to the game. This would allow fans of the local team to get a hyper-focused pregame show for their team instead of having to listen to talk about all the other games and all the other teams.
Funny you should say that, because there was a different controversy involving a Kansas City station in 1991 where they did something like that. More on that later this offseason...
What if the game was to air on NBC for "Sunday Night Football"? How would "Football Night In America" be pre-empted?
@@ScambaiterX Same thing. WBAL would air a special Ravens pregame show at 7:30. Since they're also the radio home of the Ravens, they could even simulcast the radio pregame show to the TV channel.
The FOX and CBS affiliates here in the Tampa Bay Area used to have Sunday pregame shows devoted to the Buccaneers, but those didn't air in the 2022-23 season.
WNBC-TV (channel 4) in New York City did aired the “NFL ‘85” pregame show at 12:30PM right after “Meet The Press”, and channel 4 did the right thing to air network programming rather than preempting for another program, and channel 4 had a happy ending.
Im watching this over a year after it was uploaded. Im pleased that God didnt strike you down complaining about too much church programming.
Or you could live in Memphis, where you've NEVER seen the Sunday CBS pregame show because the local affiliate has ALWAYS shown religious programming.
Or when Sunday Morning with Charles Kuralt had to be on WKRN Channel 2 in Nashville (meaning that the ABC station in Music City had a temporary CBS affiliation because WTVF Channel 5 had religious stuff when Sunday Morning would normally be on [9 A.M. to 10:30 A.M., the slot it still has today]).
Addendum to that: found out through seeing some old TV Guides from Louisiana that I got at an antique store in Daphne (was staying with my sister down there) that Sunday Morning wasn't on any of the CBS stations in that Louisiana edition; it was all religious shows, all the way, on every CBS station [not even WWL Channel 4 in the Big Easy was immune]).
I can completely understand why they showed the KU highlights as there we ZERO KC Chiefs fans back in 1985. Yep, the Chiefs really sucked back then.
i want to know is this the same Larry King, CNN's reporter, being on the NFL pregame show?
All they had to do was put the Jayhawks program on either the Independent or ABC station in Wichita or if it had to be on the NBC station there just air it later on the same day. That way both sides would win.
I recall Sunday were typically church programming until noon.
That's a ton of religious shows for a network affiliate! I'm not sure that even WFTS-TV, which was independent back then and aired religious programming under its original owner, devoted this much time to such programming in the morning. As for the Wichita DMA, it may not be KU's primary DMA (Kansas City area), but the Jayhawks are popular throughout Kansas. With that said, the Chiefs and Cowboys are popular there and that 11:30 a.m. CT timeslot on Sundays should've been devoted to the NFL. KSNW's program director was a hack!
That was the default Bible Belt broadcasting in the 80s...
@@Digiidude I forgot to mention that WFTS-TV is here in the Tampa Bay Area, which is south of the Bible Belt. My apologies for not mentioning that. As for KSNW, part of Kansas is in the Bible Belt, but that's a lot of religious programming for a network affiliate. I would understand if, say, KSAS-TV, did that due to it signing on as an indy in '85, but the reasoning that KSNW's PD gave made no sense given that many viewers did complain about "NFL '85" being preempted so often.
NBC should also be ticked off that the affiliate in Wichita also preempted "Meet the Press" as well
Especially since _Meet the Press_ came on right before _NFL '8x/_ _NFL Live._
@@drewzuhosky6826Here in New York City, WNBC-TV (channel 4) did aired “Meet The Press” and “NFL ‘85” pregame show which was on the east coast. An NBC affiliate did pretty well without being forced to preempt everything. Sunday mornings in NYC had a slew of religious and public affairs programming.
Wouldn’t have bothered me in the least because I never watch pregame shows. The mindless blather that passes for analysis drives me nuts, so I don’t turn the television on until time for kickoff.
MONROE LOUISIANA -EL Dorado Arkansas never had A Problem with NFL 85 Luckily they did not get preempted!
WPSD in Paducah, Ky., showed a church service instead on NFL Live. That was frustrating because you want to see Bob Costas and his crew talking football games instead of hearing a preacher talking about Jesus. The only time they made an exception was during the playoffs.
8 straight televangelist shows, followed by KU football highlights, is worse than spiking the ball into the groin...uh, ground...on every single play.
I thought this was going to be about when NBC moved the pre-game show into the same studio where they taped Letterman and decided to try to utilize a studio audience. Yes, really. That may not have been 1985, though, and I'm too lazy/indifferent to look up the exact year.
That vid is coming sometime soon. I remember that with the live audience and that was a disaster
You make it sound like removing 1 religious show wouldn't upset viewers or that religious viewers watch all 8 shows. There are 8 different audiences there. Also as mentioned by other commentators those religious shows are paid for.
9:01 And they pay to be on the station too.
Four damn hours of evangelical Christianity on one local station alone when you’re audience is at church. That’s what’s the matter with Kansas. Nah, that’s a bit harsh: the jayhawk state wasn’t the only place in America that programmed that way.
Just to let you know, your voice glitches out at around 11:12 to 11:18, and again at 11:34.
I’m usually a fan of JaguarGator, but in this instance, he completely flips his rant midway from “the Mike Gottfried Show ridiculously aired during the NFL ‘85 broadcast time slot in Wichita” to “there were too many church programs on in Kansas on Sunday morning in 1985” (and many who are commenting on this thread have bought into that and some used it as a chance to spew their anti-religious bias) when one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. I don’t understand why he’s so fixated on Sunday morning TV in those days. KSNW could have also picked out the following time slots to show Mike Gottfried’s show:
1. Before or after the NFL game (on non-doubleheader weeks)
2. On Saturday before or after the KU game.
3. On Sunday night after the local news.
4. At 4:00 am in the morning for all I care (no offense to all you viewers of Ag Day.)
Why didn’t JaguarGator point out those?
Also, KSNW wasn’t/isn’t the primary affiliate in KC. It was WDAF then and KSHB now. So, this whole thing was limited to the Wichita TV market, probably one of the smaller TV markets in the U.S.
I should’ve clarified better on that.
Option 1 was out, because you want a weekly show like that to be in a consistent time
Option 2 was out, because Gottfried had to be in the studio to talk about the plays, and the show physically couldn’t air on Saturdays
Option 3 was out because of national NBC programming
I suppose option 4 was possible, but considering that Kansas State’s show aired at 11, to do that in the wee hours of the morning would lead to complaints
@@OfficialJaguarGator9ut in New York City, WNBC-TV (channel 4) which is another NBC affiliate did the right thing to air “NFL ‘85” pregame show at 12:30PM which was on the East Coast, and it was right after “Meet The Press” at 12PM. But in Wichita, KA, they did not carried “Meet The Press”.
“NFL ‘85” was a pregame show did carried on channel 4 in New York City as an NBC station. Many New Yorkers wants to see the New York Jets Vs. The New England Patriots game that are showing depending in your area which was at 4PM according to the schedule during the “NFL ‘85” pregame show on WNBC-TV in NYC.
How many times.are you gonna keep mentioning this? This is the third time since I started scrolling through the comments that I've seen this same post from you .
@@chrisp679 So what? I was replying to 3 separate comments. It just so happens that the answer to each was the same. Why are you so hot and bothered and worried about it?
Are you MTN? Because that's who I was talking to.
I've seen shows like this even more recently. Fox Sports Ohio had shows for Ohio State and Cincinnati football. But they aired on weekdays and never took priority over LIVE SPORTS (i.e. if the Indians or Reds had a day game they wouldn't show it until a different time). If you have to show that on Sunday you could show it after the Chiefs game (or before if they had a late game).
4:01 It wasn't Larry King it was Pete Axhelm
Never mind but Pete Axhelm was a regular too
A prayer service on a Sunday is a bad thing? You'd think a jags fan especially would get praying on Sundays! (All love JG9)
IKR?-Tim Tebow
Are people really that interested in pregame shows? I always see them as filler for people that turn on the TV a little early.
They can't say their hands were fully tied. But I can make an argument in their favor. Church shows are paid programming. And the station makes good money relative to the cost. All they need to do is put in a tape and receive boatloads of money from the churches. They don't need to sell ads or anything. Just need a technician at station in case a technical issue happens (which you have to have regardless)
So in that regard 7-11 is off the table. No you have two major college football programs in your state. Kansas and Kansas State. Both have a coaches highlight show. Airing them is goodwill win for the relationship between them and the schools especially if they air college football, and is their two local teams. But the problem is, you only have 11 til 12 available to air 2 half hour programs. Can't do one before the game and one after. What if the game goes long? Or the one before gets shown favoritism because of the time slot. And you definitely can't show one but not the other. I definitely don't need to explain that one to a college football fan.
So they chose to preempt NFL 85. They might have gotten more revenue from NFL 85 than the Kansas show comparing the two side by side. But factoring in all factors, they may have made a better fiscal decision on the aggregate.
One final thing to mention. Pregame shows are used to sell the games to the fans. Do you think the games ratings would go down because there was no pregame show? You said it yourself. They are in the Kansas city market. So if you wanted to watch Kansas city, you were gonna watch them regardless of a pre-show.
all they needed was some intern putting in tapes on Sunday morning
Yeah. Strange. Kansas and Kansas State were bad back then. Wichita State still had a team back then. If they were going to preempt the NFL '85 then why not show highlights of Wichita State games if they had them? Maybe they didn't. Otherwise makes no sense at all!!!
What’s going on with his voice in the 11:15 mark lmao
Incidentally, Gottfried is German for God's Peace. So that would make 4.5 hours of religious programming?
lol That's a lot of church
I'm betting all those church shows were paid programming and that's why this station spent Sunday nights airing those. Anything to turn a buck. I always found those pre-game shows to be personality-driven shit shows, period. Who cares about the opinion of these former players and coaches? Even now, I don't watch any of them. I don't even turn the TV on until a minute or two before game time. Being "sassy" or "brassy" doesn't add anything to the game-time experience. I don't blame the KNSW PD for doing what he did. I bet that Kansas coach's show had crap ratings as would the network show. No one cares.
Points you didn’t make:
1. The NFL in 1985 didn’t quite turn the screws on its junior partners, like network affiliates, like they can and will now. Pete Rozelle was a great commissioner in his time but looks like a relic and an amateur now, because he didn’t always take advantage of the league’s position. (Which admittedly was less back then than now)
2. The majority of folks in Kansas in 1985 probably WANTED televangelists on at least one station all morning, every Sunday.
3. The Chiefs were terrible in those days, their fan base was 10% of what it is now.
4. As many have pointed out, the affiliate made money on those shows. Yes, probably more lucrative than what the NFL could offer at the time.
Your videos are ok Jag but sometimes I see a cultural and generational dissonance. “The past is a foreign country, they do things differently there.” 2023 is a loooooong way away from the 70s and 80s and I am not sure you always get that.
KState and kU football was also terrible in those days
In Rozelle's defense affiliates totally ran roughshod over their parent networks for years with all the defiance of a five-year old (what you gonna do about it?!). JG could probably do a vid on the CBS/ABC affiliate swap in '76 (Spokane) that affected quite a number of sports and started with KXLY airing the then-new Good Morning America despite being a CBS affiliate, that led to KREM pre-empting a bunch of ABC shows (including the debuting Monday Night Baseball) before the switch after the Montreal Games.
In that case, it's on the networks (not the NFL) to get their affiliates in line. Rozelle was long gone by the time that started happening.
Kansas football 😂
Ha!! The nutz.
Hahaha acting normal or punching myself in the nose. 😅