As an amateur photog that has gotten lucky enough to sell a few prints, I thought I knew a few things. This video makes me feel like 15 years ago when I discovered that pop-up flashes were bad. Your ability to shift through the stops amazes me, honestly.
Great video. I tried pushing Gold 200 one time (rated 1600 iso and +3 push), I shot some scenes at night with it. I messed up the metering so most didn't turn out but the one shot that did turned out incredible. The gariny, kinda crappy shadows work well at night and gives good texture to a photo. It was of a motel I stayed at so there was some bright lights, different colors and a dark parking lot/sky. I'd definitely be interested to see how a similar experiment from you would turn out!
I love the 90XL as my walk around- the 72XL is also amazing- I got the last 180mm mount Linhof had - great lens depending on your subject matter. I also have a 6x24 but it is by Fotoman- has 90XL and is crazy good- but I don’t love the viewfinder. It has a simpler construction but built like a tank- the viewfinder is usable but pales in comparison to the Linhof BUT also cost a lot less. I got my body and lens cone on eBay and purchased a 90XL used for it- 3 shots per 120 roll. In many ways, except for the viewfinder, it is more reliable than the Linhof due to the basic film advance.
Robbie Maynard pushed Gold 200 in 120 to 6400 for nighttime photography. It actually had very good results. I definitely can see it not working in daylight though
Yeah I saw that video-- issue is it was not an actual film speed test as without placing your shadow value you have no idea what the true film response is- a standard meter will just average the scene SO the shadows may well have been placed on a zone 4 or 5 and with push development would still fall around 2 or 3 which fits my testing--
@@FIGITALREVOLUTION I've pushed Lomo 800 to 3200, no problem other than a slight yellow cast. I had to get useful shutter speeds for Pentax 6x7 and 500mm F/5.6.
Thx for the reminder why there is nothing I miss about film…and I graduated 1980 with a commercial degree! Film has tremendous carry over to Digital applications…but film had SO many limitations in comparison.
No- I also have a commercial degree from RIT -- film is just different - there are a lot of limitations with digital as well-- just depends on your working needs.
Yes and no- EV values are always the same BUT in deep darkness stuff just falls off fast as everyone knows - this is why I was conservative on my suggested EI range
Hi, great video! In regards to gold 200 being pushed to 400 or 800, are you rating it in camera at those speeds or at box speed and pushing it 1-2 stops?
What’s the curved bit of metal that lets you stack a light meter on top of the voigtlander rangefinder on the accessory shoe? I can’t tell if that’s an official thing voigtlander sold back in the day or if it’s some diy hack. Cool either way (and I want one).
I actually had it machined for me- Holds a light meter on the top and Voigtlander rangefinder down below with a cold shoe below that- I use it on a lot of my cameras as I got tired of having to reach for both- this way it keeps my camera compact
@@FIGITALREVOLUTION Smart. If I'm using a zone-focus, meterless camera (which is to say, if I'm really having fun!) I tend to either use the rangefinder and sunny-16/iphone meter, or I use my Keks meter and zone focus. Love how you've solved both.
What do you think about the AGO rotary processor that constantly monitors temperature and increases processing time based on drop in temperature? I have one but haven't used it yet. When I was hand developing C41 I found that time increases were less likely to increase grain and color shifts than temperature increases. Since the AGO has no water bath like the JOBO it depends upon the computer to determine the processing time increase. Currently I still hand develop C41 and kept all the "jars" in a temperature controlled water bath.
Should be ok- consistency is the key- the water bath in the JOBO is really great-- the AGO compensation reminds me of a Zone VI product for prints from years ago.
it isn't reccomended to develop c41 at any other temperature than 38 celsius because the 3 color layers develop at different rates at different temperatures, this causes color shifts of course a lot can be corrected in post, especially if you mainly digitize film, but it is still important to keep in mind that kodak specifies such a specific temperature for a reason.
@@BZK-. Very good point. I guess I was extrapolating some from my B&W processing. I've have experience with C41 but, I'll confess, that I was religious in keeping the temperatures and time direct on during the processing. Ergo, my question about the AGO as trades temperatures against time. I appreciate your insight as you have lots more experience in color development. !!!!
It’s definitely not perfection 😁- I looked at a ruler before I went dark- measured what I thought it would be and just cut the film- not perfect but close enough.
Correct me if im wrong please but your method was: Rate ever shot at iso 200. And f32. Keep changing SS in order to keep everything exposed correctly??? Then the magic happens in development??
If you meter for say 200 EI and set the fstop to 5.6 and the meter says 1/60th then exposing at 1/30 is one stop over - two stops over would be 1/15 at again the f5.6-- under would be the example in reverse- My development time was for the box speed so give you a good idea of how far you can go over and under and still have a usable negative.
So I mis spoke in the video- yeah the 617 is 4 frames- so when I cut the film to process the 1 stop push was the 200, 800 and 1600 -- The 2 stop push was 3200 and a slice of a second 3200- I did shoot a second roll and did the 1600-6400 again so thank you for keeping me on my toes- too many cameras 😂
When you take portra 400 and shoot/rate it at iso 100 in your camera (so technically every shot is overexposed according to box speed). Do you develop as a 400 film or do you develop as a 100 speed film?
Over exposing chromogenic film is just fine- Portra 400 is very forgiving- down to even EI 25- just process normal C41 and it will be spot on-- gets a bit warmer in color at 3+ stops over-- only Push the film, increase developemnt time for Portra 400 at speeds beyond 1000- solid at 2 stop push to 3200
If you want a lot more info here is the link to the 4 part series I did on this film in 2010- this is part 4 the conclusion-- figitalrevolution.com/2010/11/23/new-kodak-portra-400-review-part-4-conclusion/
I tested it and it sounded fine on my studio system but everyone as their own preference’s-- new video going live at 11am EST-- more Fomapan 400 testing with now D76- and there is still music in the background 😂
@@FIGITALREVOLUTION been looking to buy one. not sure on the lens (72mm/ 90mm or 110 ) do you have any other lenses/recommendations? also can you help me apparently David imel ( works for MKBHD ) has a Linhof that dose 6x24 ??? do you know anything about it ? ( can't find anything online ) he has one clip about it in his threads where he shows it, and it looks like a beast.
I love the 90XL as my walk around- the 72XL is also amazing- I got the last 180mm mount Linhof had - great lens depending on your subject matter. I also have a 6x24 but it is by Fotoman- has 90XL and is crazy good- but I don’t love the viewfinder. It has a simpler construction but built like a tank- the viewfinder is usable but pales in comparison to the Linhof BUT also cost a lot less. I got my body and lens cone on eBay and purchased a 90XL used for it- 3 shots per 120 roll. In many ways, except for the viewfinder, it is more reliable than the Linhof due to the basic film advance.
La pellicule fait 200 i s o, quand on la laisse beaucoup plus longtemps dans le révélateur, seuls le contraste et le grain viennent la pellicule reste toujours à 200 i s o. Pour certains films fabriqués pour cela, on a de bons résultats avec des couleurs légèrement moins saturées. Un film photo, à toujours une légère dominante d'une certaine couleur, et s'il est périmé la dominante sera d'une autre couleur ( on le voit surtout dans les ombres ) J'ai eu fait aussi comme vous des films poussés, j'en ai retiré une grande leçon, ne jamais pousser le film que quand cela est nécessaire, que le film accepte les écarts de luminosité. Un film 25 i s o en noir et blanc développé normalement ça ira bien, si poussé vous allez droit à la catastrophe , avec un film 1000 i s o, vous aurez plus de souplesse au développement. Pour la couleur, c'est l'inverse, la pellicule 25 i s o, vous aurez plus de facilité pour le développement, qu'avec une 1000 i s o.
A film does only have one true speed which is box speed and calculated by the manufacturer--‘however you can indeed push a film and it does more than just increase grain and contrast- it can move the tonal range and allow for a higher iso but not all film benefit from this flexibility- for example Ferrania P30 does not push very well but films like Portra 400 pushes quite nice to 3200+ with ease. My tests are very conservative on the push I outlined and will work with great success when done as I outlined.
Beautiful camera and estate. Thanks for the test. How would that translate to 35mm in your opinion? Obviously the grain will be different but how about colors and latitude?
As an amateur photog that has gotten lucky enough to sell a few prints, I thought I knew a few things. This video makes me feel like 15 years ago when I discovered that pop-up flashes were bad. Your ability to shift through the stops amazes me, honestly.
Great video. I tried pushing Gold 200 one time (rated 1600 iso and +3 push), I shot some scenes at night with it. I messed up the metering so most didn't turn out but the one shot that did turned out incredible. The gariny, kinda crappy shadows work well at night and gives good texture to a photo. It was of a motel I stayed at so there was some bright lights, different colors and a dark parking lot/sky. I'd definitely be interested to see how a similar experiment from you would turn out!
I’ve been shooting for about 8 years now and found this to be such a wonderful and educational video! Totally subbed and liked the vid!
great video, thanks for making it
You are most welcome!
Great job! I shared a link to thisn our FB panoramic film group.
Thank you!
I love the 90XL as my walk around- the 72XL is also amazing- I got the last 180mm mount Linhof had - great lens depending on your subject matter. I also have a 6x24 but it is by Fotoman- has 90XL and is crazy good- but I don’t love the viewfinder. It has a simpler construction but built like a tank- the viewfinder is usable but pales in comparison to the Linhof BUT also cost a lot less. I got my body and lens cone on eBay and purchased a 90XL used for it- 3 shots per 120 roll. In many ways, except for the viewfinder, it is more reliable than the Linhof due to the basic film advance.
Like you I really liked the look of the box speed push developed by 1 stop. The look actually surprised me.
Yes! Definately a must try for me as well!
Man I wish I'd known this for the past few Thanksgivings. Great info. Thank you!
Robbie Maynard pushed Gold 200 in 120 to 6400 for nighttime photography. It actually had very good results. I definitely can see it not working in daylight though
Yeah I saw that video-- issue is it was not an actual film speed test as without placing your shadow value you have no idea what the true film response is- a standard meter will just average the scene SO the shadows may well
have been placed on a zone 4 or 5 and with push development would still fall around 2 or 3 which fits my testing--
@@FIGITALREVOLUTION I've pushed Lomo 800 to 3200, no problem other than a slight yellow cast. I had to get useful shutter speeds for Pentax 6x7 and 500mm F/5.6.
Yep- the 800 is of course two stops faster so makes sense--
Thx for the reminder why there is nothing I miss about film…and I graduated 1980 with a commercial degree! Film has tremendous carry over to Digital applications…but film had SO many limitations in comparison.
No- I also have a commercial degree from
RIT -- film is just different - there are a lot of limitations with digital as well-- just depends on your working needs.
Great video as always
Thank you!
nice video but you can not get 6 shots on Linhof 617 with 120 film, I do have one and it is not possible, on Linhof 612 you would get 6 shots
Yep- I mis spoke- happens- my 6x24 is 3, 6x17 is 4 and the 6x12 is 6- thanks for keeping me on my toes 😁
Nice video. Normally it works very differently when you do push in light condition and dark condition.
Yes and no- EV values are always the same BUT in deep darkness stuff just falls off fast as everyone knows - this is why I was conservative on my suggested EI range
absolutely glorious camera, and absolutely glorious price that is 😭
Very nice indeed. And good to know 👍.
Hi, great video! In regards to gold 200 being pushed to 400 or 800, are you rating it in camera at those speeds or at box speed and pushing it 1-2 stops?
Rating it in camera and then pushing-
Thanks for the response!
You're wearing a t shirt from the Locke bar!? thats crazy that my local
My daughter’s boyfriend’s extended family I believe owns the bar- we were there last spring- great place!
What’s the curved bit of metal that lets you stack a light meter on top of the voigtlander rangefinder on the accessory shoe? I can’t tell if that’s an official thing voigtlander sold back in the day or if it’s some diy hack. Cool either way (and I want one).
I actually had it machined for me-
Holds a light meter on the top and Voigtlander rangefinder down below with a cold shoe below that- I use it on a lot of my cameras as I got tired of having to reach for both- this way it keeps my camera compact
@@FIGITALREVOLUTION Smart. If I'm using a zone-focus, meterless camera (which is to say, if I'm really having fun!) I tend to either use the rangefinder and sunny-16/iphone meter, or I use my Keks meter and zone focus. Love how you've solved both.
What do you think about the AGO rotary processor that constantly monitors temperature and increases processing time based on drop in temperature? I have one but haven't used it yet. When I was hand developing C41 I found that time increases were less likely to increase grain and color shifts than temperature increases. Since the AGO has no water bath like the JOBO it depends upon the computer to determine the processing time increase. Currently I still hand develop C41 and kept all the "jars" in a temperature controlled water bath.
Should be ok- consistency is the key- the water bath in the JOBO is really great-- the AGO compensation reminds me of a Zone VI product for prints from years ago.
@@FIGITALREVOLUTION Thanks! I guess I will give it a try. Yes the JOBO is really great. Unfortunately, can't afford one at this time.
it isn't reccomended to develop c41 at any other temperature than 38 celsius because the 3 color layers develop at different rates at different temperatures, this causes color shifts
of course a lot can be corrected in post, especially if you mainly digitize film, but it is still important to keep in mind that kodak specifies such a specific temperature for a reason.
I’ve had mine since 1993 😂
@@BZK-. Very good point. I guess I was extrapolating some from my B&W processing. I've have experience with C41 but, I'll confess, that I was religious in keeping the temperatures and time direct on during the processing. Ergo, my question about the AGO as trades temperatures against time. I appreciate your insight as you have lots more experience in color development. !!!!
i clicked for the camera and by the gods i was not disappointed
Thank you!!!
How did you measure the film to separate the two parts before putting them on the reels?
It’s definitely not perfection 😁- I looked at a ruler before I went dark- measured what I thought it would be and just cut the film- not perfect but close enough.
Correct me if im wrong please but your method was:
Rate ever shot at iso 200. And f32.
Keep changing SS in order to keep everything exposed correctly???
Then the magic happens in development??
If you meter for say 200 EI and set the fstop to 5.6 and the meter says 1/60th then exposing at 1/30 is one stop over - two stops over would be 1/15 at again the f5.6-- under would be the example in reverse- My development time was for the box speed so give you a good idea of how far you can go over and under and still have a usable negative.
Steve, I’m just curious how you managed to shoot more than 4 shots ie 6 shots of a 120 roll film in your Linhof 6x17? Or did you use 2 x 120 rolls?
So I mis spoke in the video- yeah the 617 is 4 frames- so when I cut the film to process the 1 stop push was the 200, 800 and 1600 --
The 2 stop push was 3200 and a slice of a second 3200- I did shoot a second roll and did the 1600-6400 again so thank you for keeping me on my toes- too many cameras 😂
Thanks for clarifying this. I thought your Linhof 6x17 had a way of getting 6 frames from a 120 roll film 😅
It would be amazing to have 220 Film again and that would not be very complicated to make happen but suspect that market is just too small--
When you take portra 400 and shoot/rate it at iso 100 in your camera (so technically every shot is overexposed according to box speed). Do you develop as a 400 film or do you develop as a 100 speed film?
Over exposing chromogenic film is just fine- Portra 400 is very forgiving- down to even EI 25- just process normal C41 and it will be spot on-- gets a bit warmer in color at 3+ stops over-- only Push the film, increase developemnt time for Portra 400 at speeds beyond 1000- solid at 2 stop push to 3200
If you want a lot more info here is the link to the 4 part series I did on this film in 2010- this is part 4 the conclusion--
figitalrevolution.com/2010/11/23/new-kodak-portra-400-review-part-4-conclusion/
@@FIGITALREVOLUTION thank you!!!
Could you point me to the video where you explain zones lol😅😅.. this man is smart lol 🤓
Actually yes I can- the Zone System “Steve System” in 10 minutes or less….
Zone System In 10 Minutes or Less
ua-cam.com/video/g0FfuHe-0Es/v-deo.html
Electrical tape is the best for cuts!
I’m always partial to Gaffers Tape 😂
How did you manage to develop the same film at two speed?
Cut in half and shot a second roll off camera
What camera is that?
Linhof 617s III
Great video but almost unwatchable due to the music volume. Cutting it by another 6-9db would have done wonders.
Noted!
Check your speakers/headphones, I agree the video as a whole was kinda quiet but the music was just fine imo
I tested it and it sounded fine on my studio system but everyone as their own preference’s-- new video going live at 11am EST-- more Fomapan 400 testing with now D76- and there is still music in the background 😂
Do you pre-soak this in water..:?
No
that linhof 617 tho 👀
Fun camera 😁
@@FIGITALREVOLUTION been looking to buy one. not sure on the lens (72mm/ 90mm or 110 ) do you have any other lenses/recommendations?
also can you help me apparently David imel ( works for MKBHD ) has a Linhof that dose 6x24 ??? do you know anything about it ? ( can't find anything online )
he has one clip about it in his threads where he shows it, and it looks like a beast.
I love the 90XL as my walk around- the 72XL is also amazing- I got the last 180mm mount Linhof had - great lens depending on your subject matter. I also have a 6x24 but it is by Fotoman- has 90XL and is crazy good- but I don’t love the viewfinder. It has a simpler construction but built like a tank- the viewfinder is usable but pales in comparison to the Linhof BUT also cost a lot less. I got my body and lens cone on eBay and purchased a 90XL used for it- 3 shots per 120 roll. In many ways, except for the viewfinder, it is more reliable than the Linhof due to the basic film advance.
You get 6 120film shots on a 617sIII？😮😮😮How？
No-- see comments above for clarification 😂
Did I missed something? first you pushed the film one stop and then two stops, but it's the same film so all of it is push to 2 stops isn't it?
I cut the film in the darkroom and ran two separate runs
La pellicule fait 200 i s o, quand on la laisse beaucoup plus longtemps dans le révélateur, seuls le contraste et le grain viennent la pellicule reste toujours à 200 i s o. Pour certains films fabriqués pour cela, on a de bons résultats avec des couleurs légèrement moins saturées.
Un film photo, à toujours une légère dominante d'une certaine couleur, et s'il est périmé la dominante sera d'une autre couleur ( on le voit surtout dans les ombres ) J'ai eu fait aussi comme vous des films poussés, j'en ai retiré une grande leçon, ne jamais pousser le film que quand cela est nécessaire, que le film accepte les écarts de luminosité. Un film 25 i s o en noir et blanc développé normalement ça ira bien, si poussé vous allez droit à la catastrophe , avec un film 1000 i s o, vous aurez plus de souplesse au développement. Pour la couleur, c'est l'inverse, la pellicule 25 i s o, vous aurez plus de facilité pour le développement, qu'avec une 1000 i s o.
A film does only have one true speed which is box speed and calculated by the manufacturer--‘however you can indeed push a film and it does more than just increase grain and contrast- it can move the tonal range and allow for a higher iso but not all film benefit from this flexibility- for example Ferrania P30 does not push very well but films like Portra 400 pushes quite nice to 3200+ with ease. My tests are very conservative on the push I outlined and will work with great success when done as I outlined.
lens flare
I love flare!
You should have preflashed the film.
Maybe but that would be a different variable so a different test.
Beautiful camera and estate. Thanks for the test.
How would that translate to 35mm in your opinion? Obviously the grain will be different but how about colors and latitude?
The color and latitude will be the same as the same stock- grain yes will be bigger but would be beautiful.