Destruction time, and a investigation into what is inside. I don't know if its tin, or zinc or another alloy. I will only know this later when I do a full chemical test.
I know this is a OLD Video, And I can assure you that it was 100% FAKE. I wish I could roll back the time, and show you the methods I used. I broke this down with chemicals, at first I thought it could be tungsten, but HCL ate it away. I wish I shown the heat test, and the gravity test. sadly it was not to come. I have since and STILL have some fakes that I have sent out to friends marked FAKE. for testing. Why fake a 1oz piece of silver? at the time AG spiked, as it has recently, so be careful.
@@Mr383chevyboy good morning Chris, no the real bar is/was real. I melted it down. See the more up to date fake reviews to help spot anything suspicious. I appreciate you stopping by.
That is amazing someone took the care to make that. Makes no sense to me but the minds of thieves are always a wonder eh. Thanks for showing us this process fella !
I know, but thick silver plating. It's insane! Most had thin layers. But you would be surprised if you knew that almost every bar , coin , and round have been faked. Even found in banks the FED etc.
Nope ! As I had made shot from the 10 oz bar they, SilverGoldBull reneged on their guarantee. I ended up taking a loss on it. The last time I have used them. I did a video the day I discovered it after making the shot.
I’ve been seeing some that don’t have the serial number on the bar at all. Just on the assay card. Did pamp used to make them without the number on the bar at one point?? Or are they fake too?? I see several on eBay even now.
Email me a picture if the front, back and thickness. If you have one with a serial number put it aside by side. I can help you that way. jonrms2000@yahoo.co.uk
Hi Jonrms, Great video. I just received my very first Silver PAMP bar and I am curious if you recommend opening the packaging it comes in? Does it some how devalue the silver in any way? I'm not exactly worried it's a fake since I got it from APMEX, but I'm curious where you bought the fake?
That one was bought from fleabay ages ago. I mean YEARS!!!! but I would suggest you do NOT open it. KEEP your receipt and that shows as a second proof. I have plenty if these ( Real ones) but Pamp and many others were faked soo much it fooled ALOT of people. Even under a XRF you would get a false reading. Now better machines and ways of testing ensures you can almost guarantee any PM.
Thanks for the insight. I didn't realize fake bars was such a problem. I don't see myself buying from any place that isn't official anyway so hopefully I'll never run into any fakes. I will follow your advice to leave the bar in its protective certificate. I will admit I was really tempted since this is my first ever investment. When you say PM do you mean premium? I've been watching a few videos on gold and silver and they always mention "high premium" when buying PAMP bars. I know higher premiums means more costly, but people constantly complain you wont be able to get those premiums back. I am assuming because those people remove the bars from their certificates?
@@Decimation1030 No PM= Precious metals. Premium bullion is often referred to when it is very expensive to buy over the SPOT price. Pamp bars are a mid premium bar. High premium as an example is the Black bull of Clarence from the Queens Beasts collection.
is buying from APMEX a 99.9 percent guarantee the silver is legit? have you ever heard of someone getting a fake from JM Bullion or APMEX or anyone else?
@@xxterribleone1899xx I second your question. I think I will only ever buy from the big dealers or very reputable local shops who have the capability to test in shop. Buying a fake would feel rotten.
Good eye! This is just one reason I avoid slabbed/packaged PM. Besides not being a “Collector” Stacker, wrapping up silver and gold is a popular way of attempting to shield fakes. You are clearly very careful, and that’s good. Love the slide! I should pick one up. 👌🏼
This bar was bought years ago in Fleabay when fakes were everywhere and were fooling dealers. Now even the basic stacker can spot the problem and know what is a fake.
Over the years ( decades) of collecting and stacking, I have limited my sealed bars or coins. It is scary how fast the fakers are now. It wasn't long ago I shown the Perth mint kangaroo bars next to a fake. Well I had about 10 fakes and a real bar. It is scary but now because my channel and PLENTY of others are showing them. So more people are alerted.
Yes they turned out to be nickle with a unknown metal as well inside a heavy plated silver. The camera didn't pick it up. But the obvious thing was the serial number. Pamp ALWAYS puts a letter first.
@@m.l.3902 sorry, I could see there was a metal difference but it was not showing up. It was like a condensed powder. Hard to describe. But it was tested after and was not genuine. Sorry I didn't make the point about the serial number clearer.
Because it is about purity. The Karat used by jewellers is showing how impure your gold and silver are. 999 or 9999 are the purest foe any bullion. Platinum is .995 at its purist state. Your breaking down the metal into molecules and are able to know if any other metal or impurities are present
Good observation, on the faje it did say 1 troy oz. But the genuine just said 1oz. The Messure of ounces is important. A troy oz weights more than a normal oz.
It's not, this bar was broken down chemically and the inside was a tungsten like powder mess! It had a good silver plating. See Backyard Bullion's channel to see what it should look like. He did a video a day ago about big bars. And you will clearly see the difference
I sent it in for a chemical test after it was flaking and powder like in my hands. I have been working with silver for years as ace bullion and never has powder come out of silver if cut
Bud, I put this in a HCL solution, the silver dissolved but there was another metal in the mix that didn't. I have been testing fakes for years now. This is a very old video but it was one of the real FAKES! Google fake pamp and you can clearly find ALOT out there. See here www.fakebullion.com/index.php/component/k2/item/41-pamp-suisse-fortuna-1-ounce-silver-bar-in-assay-card-gen-3
It may just be me but I've yet 2get a fake out of 1,000tozs and years of acquiring silver, I've talked 2 people that has but what I pay close attention to is the thickness, I know exactly what I'm buying and it would be hard to fool me
When I first started buying, I never knew, my previous purchases were through main dealers and they are Vaulted. But in a private scale I just bought. Later I decided to view, and check my stock. I ran into 3 to 5 max. Bit I then actively searched for fakes and did a special on that
I've been doing this since the early 2000's and have seen many fakes. All my fakes came from local coin shops though and never from online guys. I've had fake pandas, ASE, SML, silvertowne, sunshine mint, highland mint, Scottsdale, golden state mint, and fake Engelhard. Each time though I caught the fake at home and went back to the shop and either got a replacement or money back. Now a days though shops have various none destructive testers but still some are getting by.
No, I bought it ALONG time ago. At the time I recieved it I knew it was wrong. I contacted the police and I got my money back. It was a eBay purchase and having done a acid test at the time in front of them they were happy too. They didn't want the bar. So I was able to keep it. I have been moving stuff in and out of safes and found it marked FAKE. I remembered the story and thought I would destroy it and show it off. Now it's in my workshop awaiting refining. I will determine all metals involved.
@@AgDUK I completely agree. I know it's only 1oz ( supposed to be ) but that can add up quickly. This was during the height of fakes, I bet people still have these in their safes not knowing
It's too late to do that, but it was only just over with packaging. It failed the acid test. Then weighed it failed that out of its package. I will refine it and find out what metals are present when I do.
This was a old video, and the bars were at least 4 years old as Pamp now have a veriscan system. Look at the comments, but this was genuinely fake. If your in doubt and purchased it from Apnex, speak to them. Hopefully they put a serial number on your invoice. Things have gone past dealers before but if purchased recently chances are it's genuine. But ANY doubts go straight back to the supplier👍👍
I don't know what the heck you have there, metal wise, but the Schwerter's test didn't come back red, not at all. It ain't silver. It's definitely an amazingly convincing fake, especially considering the packaging. Lacking an XRF, perhaps a specific grav test would furnish a clue, but I'd be very curious as to an XRF result.
@@AceBullion Surprising. A difficult metal to work with, very tough, very high melt temp. How to get it into a form with such detail as a PAMP bar? I think it can be sintered (compressed from powder) but even then it's not easy to get serialized bars. Do you happen to know if add'l fake bars had *different serial nos?* As you say, it's surprising to see that much effort go into faking silver.
You made several comments on here and as this was a early video exposing fakes, which this was make no mistake! 1 comment is more than sufficient which I replied to. Look at my more recent fakes. I deal in Silver daily, its my job! Larger bars never had a letter on the Serial number. I wish you could have seen it but clearly unconvinced you can take my word or not. I have shown plenty of replicas and fakes. Even faje PGCS graded !!! 🙄🙄🙄
You just destroyed a perfectly fine Pamp bar. The silver Pamp bars go as follows: oldest Lady Fortuna have no assay or serial number, next oldest have assay & serial number with no letter preceding the number and finally the newer bars have the the letter in front. You can read this on Pamp website. Also look at the signature on assay it will correspond with the the time period in which the bar was made. Take care.
Thank you, it was along time ago, I do have some known fakes so I will dedicate that video for you. PS the fakes I have atm are magnetic so it's a dead giveaway
How do counterfeiters get away with making fakes? You'd think the chain of custody of most high value bullion would be known. It seems like people would only buy from reputable dealers, and that reputable dealers would test all bullion they buy from independent sellers. If anyone was caught trying to sell fakes, they would be questioned by police about where they aquired the bullion themselves. It's hard for me to fathom that people get away with this without someone turning them in to authorities relatively quickly. I guess they must change names and addresses frequently.
There are many ways to go about it. I do not want to give anything away for crooks to use. But plenty of easy ways to hide it sadly. I hear 1 over and over. 🤬 look at some of the latest fakes. I have done a few videos on them. Even Gold Sovereigns. And yes they fool experts!
@@AceBullion Thanks for responding and also for not giving away any tricks that might help crooks. Now that you say it, I can imagine how they might be able to trick the standard tests. That's scary, especially with gold. I'll look for some of your more recent videos about fakes - I just found your channel today.
@Brushstroke ohh thank you. 😊 I hope you enjoy the channel. I review coins every Monday, Wednesday, & Friday. And I occasionally do a livestream for the forum like today. But livestreams are rare now. I have to make lots of shiny silver goodies 😊. Check out the Precious metal forum www.thepreciousmetalforum.com it is 100% FREE with no payments or special treatment to anyone. A family environment
@@AceBullion Awesome, thanks for the hearty welcome and recommendation to the forum! The stacking/collecting community seems like a relatively open, friendly, and non-judgmental community, at least compared to the toy collecting "community" which is often great, but also strangely snarky and mean at times.
@@AceBullion i wish pamp would make their silver veriscan as well! I buy their gold alot just for that reason it makes life so much easier and you know its legit.
@@tylerfortin4937 I too wish the same thing. A few companies tried it but it seems to not be popular. WHY? It bugs me. My silver that I pour is hallmarked, straight forward easy way to tell and full legal protection. Where hallmarks do not exist, we rely upon the reputation of the company. But Pamp do not seem to chase legal action. 😕
@@AceBullion yes sir well when in doubt i have access to a sigma at my local pawn shop I’ll occasionally bring samples in to be tested so far everything has been good. 🤞 im also a card and guitar collector so im very good at spotting fake items! Its a good skill to have.
it is expecially if you're just starting off. Nothing is safe from being faked. Google something you think is safe and I am almost sure there has been a fake made of it.
Only one I have without the letter first is pamp lady fortuna 50 gram. So I looked at it on apmex sight and it also does not have a letter first. So from my research lady fortuna 50gram In assay does not have a letter first.
My first silver bar I got it from jm bullion I think it's fake Theres no letter at the beginning of the numbers on the back It says 999 not 999.0 Also the bottom of the bar The special marking is not at the bottom It's like the last 2 lines are reversed Don't know what to do
Someone is on the local Facebook site trying to sell generic looking .999 gold bars for $15 each. And people are actually messaging him saying they want to buy it all. lol. It looks like a bunch of Chinese fakes.
I am happy to, I melt down bars anyway, so I have no reservations in replicating this. I can always use them for my poured Bullion. www.acebullion.co.uk
Thank you for your comment, it was destroyed and proven to be fake by my assay office. I have a host of fakes in a collection and some can fool experts.
This was a OLD video that I wish I was able to show more of what I know NOW in that. And if thus scares you I suggest looking at some of my recent videos that I produced. I had a Fake week. Yes it actually was a week all about fake Gold Silver and well you will have to watch. 👍👍
Thos video was made along time ago, and was a fake. I submit all my bullion to be assayed at Edinburgh assay office. This was analysed and was tungsten
MMM interesting I sometimes test my silver and the only thing that I have found is that the Acid does get weaker after a long period of time.. I do hate fakes and the people that make then ,Yes Hate is a harsh word but it ruins a great hobby and the penalties if found guilty, from what ever Country they came from should be much harsher..
Yes I too Hate the people making these. This was bought along time ago in good faith but I knew at the time it was fake. I notified the police and showed them a fresh acid test. I got a crime number and my money back. But I kept it, the police didn't want it. The acid is a bit old but it still failed the test. It was a light blue purple colour. I tested the acid after on a piece of silver I know is real and it's a blood red.
Glad to hear that.I save every cent ,outside all my living expenses to buy a round and I feel Gutted if I get ripped off..I will say most people are honest..All the best,Bradley..
@@parkhillmedia I believe you mean Reputable Dealers, because a Mint clearly won't be selling fakes. Yes, reputable dealers if you are in the UK I can name a few. But anywhere else someone can help. This was bought online, from EBay most likely. It was many years ago and I did get my money back. But EBay has Reputable companies such as Apmex , Bullion by Post, etc I hope this helps
A old video, but genuinely a fake. Infact I will be buying some fake gold and silver carded versions that came out recently. 🤬 Only to show how good the fakes have improved
@@AceBullion s he should have tested using 18K acid if it turns a battle ship gray then it's find silver if it turned purple that means it's not pure silver
As I was the one making this video. And it was the first fake that I cut open. I wish I would have done things differently back then. Now it's much harder and the Acid test is useless.
@@AceBullion on silver always use acid for 18K gold most effective test will turn silver that's .999 battle ship gray and more bluer for sterling silver
I have both of these PAMP bars, a very recent one and a much older one, which had the serial number just as in the first bar did. It passed the magnet test and the acid test, and tarnishes quite deep if you dont post-treat the metal after gently cleaning and drying. They are just an older version, if you look with a loupe into the etched serial numbers you will se it is silver. And just like at 3:30, you can see how deep the silver is.. it is a real bar. Your just ruining it :'[
Hi sadly it is a real bar. The acid you used is old. You can tell when you squeezed it out of the acid bottle. You should have tested that acid on another bar at the same time.
Looks real to me. Who would go to the trouble of faking a one ounce bar that goes into a certified card. Makes no sense. You just ruined a nice PAMP bar. It was probably just an older bar with different font. You ruined it, it's real!
1oz silver bars are faked more than you know, Google it! I have been doing this for a very long time, I was made aware of these fakes by a dealer. I can't remember the destruction test results but it was NOT 999 silver. But did have silver in it.
@@AceBullion , Yes, one ounce bars are faked. But mostly the ones that are not in a certified package. That's too much trouble to go through for just one ounce of silver worth less than 20.00. Doesn't make sense. Regular loose one ounce bars I can see, not PAMP.
Silver Gobbler it’s cheaper to fake smaller bars more profitable to the scammers. And if it’s not 999 silver it’s fake so he kinda didn’t ruin are bar he done a favor by destroying it to show you people who clearly think it’s real .
That assyer didn't have a letter before the bar no's its just an older bar I buy from the refinery and I have many that don't have letters assayer syseuel bars usually don't have a letter the reason they make fakes is in some countries £30 is a months wages that's a good sallery £30 even if he sells one but I guess they flood the market and ppl will have fake bars sitting for years and if caught they will say I'm sorry send it back n refund u like a ponsi scheme
I know this is a OLD Video, And I can assure you that it was 100% FAKE. I wish I could roll back the time, and show you the methods I used. I broke this down with chemicals, at first I thought it could be tungsten, but HCL ate it away. I wish I shown the heat test, and the gravity test. sadly it was not to come. I have since and STILL have some fakes that I have sent out to friends marked FAKE. for testing. Why fake a 1oz piece of silver? at the time AG spiked, as it has recently, so be careful.
Make another doing the same test on a real bar
Ya the bar u say is real look fake especially the series number bet up be surprised when it's fake too
@@Mr383chevyboy good morning Chris, no the real bar is/was real. I melted it down. See the more up to date fake reviews to help spot anything suspicious. I appreciate you stopping by.
@@AceBullion why melt a lady fortuna
@@GamblinDan this was fake, 100% FAKE!! I didn't melt it ... my assay would have failed
That is amazing someone took the care to make that. Makes no sense to me but the minds of thieves are always a wonder eh. Thanks for showing us this process fella !
I know, but thick silver plating. It's insane! Most had thin layers. But you would be surprised if you knew that almost every bar , coin , and round have been faked. Even found in banks the FED etc.
I hear ya. I got a copper contaminated OPM bar earlier on this year. A sigma showed it as 90 % silver.
@@TomokosEnterprize dang bud. Did you get your money back??
Nope ! As I had made shot from the 10 oz bar they, SilverGoldBull reneged on their guarantee. I ended up taking a loss on it. The last time I have used them. I did a video the day I discovered it after making the shot.
@@TomokosEnterprize put a link in here bud. I want to see it. That is horrible news and not cheap. Especially as you spent even more making shot
Does the purpley blue mean its pregnant : )
LOL it means it failed LOL but it did make a line so who knows lol
jonrms that bar is real !!!
sir you are correct I digress
I agree. It was a real bar
I’ve been seeing some that don’t have the serial number on the bar at all. Just on the assay card. Did pamp used to make them without the number on the bar at one point?? Or are they fake too?? I see several on eBay even now.
Email me a picture if the front, back and thickness. If you have one with a serial number put it aside by side. I can help you that way. jonrms2000@yahoo.co.uk
Yes, 7 types (that I know of) were made....
Hi Jonrms, Great video. I just received my very first Silver PAMP bar and I am curious if you recommend opening the packaging it comes in? Does it some how devalue the silver in any way? I'm not exactly worried it's a fake since I got it from APMEX, but I'm curious where you bought the fake?
That one was bought from fleabay ages ago. I mean YEARS!!!! but I would suggest you do NOT open it. KEEP your receipt and that shows as a second proof. I have plenty if these ( Real ones) but Pamp and many others were faked soo much it fooled ALOT of people. Even under a XRF you would get a false reading. Now better machines and ways of testing ensures you can almost guarantee any PM.
Thanks for the insight. I didn't realize fake bars was such a problem. I don't see myself buying from any place that isn't official anyway so hopefully I'll never run into any fakes.
I will follow your advice to leave the bar in its protective certificate. I will admit I was really tempted since this is my first ever investment. When you say PM do you mean premium? I've been watching a few videos on gold and silver and they always mention "high premium" when buying PAMP bars. I know higher premiums means more costly, but people constantly complain you wont be able to get those premiums back. I am assuming because those people remove the bars from their certificates?
@@Decimation1030 No PM= Precious metals. Premium bullion is often referred to when it is very expensive to buy over the SPOT price. Pamp bars are a mid premium bar. High premium as an example is the Black bull of Clarence from the Queens Beasts collection.
is buying from APMEX a 99.9 percent guarantee the silver is legit? have you ever heard of someone getting a fake from JM Bullion or APMEX or anyone else?
@@xxterribleone1899xx I second your question. I think I will only ever buy from the big dealers or very reputable local shops who have the capability to test in shop. Buying a fake would feel rotten.
Good eye! This is just one reason I avoid slabbed/packaged PM. Besides not being a “Collector” Stacker, wrapping up silver and gold is a popular way of attempting to shield fakes. You are clearly very careful, and that’s good.
Love the slide! I should pick one up. 👌🏼
Thanks, the acid should have turned blood red not purple which I failed to mention
Great video! 👍🏼 safe future stacking. Where did you get this bar? I may have missed this.
This bar was bought years ago in Fleabay when fakes were everywhere and were fooling dealers. Now even the basic stacker can spot the problem and know what is a fake.
This is why I don't buy bars. Coins are much easier to verify.
Over the years ( decades) of collecting and stacking, I have limited my sealed bars or coins. It is scary how fast the fakers are now. It wasn't long ago I shown the Perth mint kangaroo bars next to a fake. Well I had about 10 fakes and a real bar. It is scary but now because my channel and PLENTY of others are showing them. So more people are alerted.
That isn't convincing evidence. is there more?
Yes they turned out to be nickle with a unknown metal as well inside a heavy plated silver. The camera didn't pick it up. But the obvious thing was the serial number. Pamp ALWAYS puts a letter first.
jonrms Ok thanks. Keep up the good work
@@m.l.3902 sorry, I could see there was a metal difference but it was not showing up. It was like a condensed powder. Hard to describe. But it was tested after and was not genuine. Sorry I didn't make the point about the serial number clearer.
Keeping on running them playlists...thanks Buddy
No thank you Joe, and really thank you, and your family
Does anyone know if it’s true pamp always uses a letter first?? I see some of the 50 gram bars without a letter?? Even on the apmex sight.
Why isin't silver graded by Karat?
Because it is about purity. The Karat used by jewellers is showing how impure your gold and silver are. 999 or 9999 are the purest foe any bullion. Platinum is .995 at its purist state. Your breaking down the metal into molecules and are able to know if any other metal or impurities are present
I'm not convinced. Thank you for your time spent putting this together though
It was a tin alloy. I no longer have this but a few things I know, Pamp bars are one.
do u mean all should have letters in serial numbee?
Yes. Platinum and Gold are a exception. There are Some OLD bars that dont.. but Pamp changed them
The specific gravity test is the absolute best way. should be about 10.4 specific gravity.
I know i wish i did it at the time. But it was chemically destroyed to prove my theory. It was was about 50% silver but the rest was a few metals
Does the "type" "ONE TROY OUNCE" and "1 OUNCE" make both bars different in design, size of lady fortuna, and the serial number format?....
Good observation, on the faje it did say 1 troy oz. But the genuine just said 1oz. The Messure of ounces is important. A troy oz weights more than a normal oz.
all your test showed a result of it being silver jonrms ????
It's not, this bar was broken down chemically and the inside was a tungsten like powder mess! It had a good silver plating. See Backyard Bullion's channel to see what it should look like. He did a video a day ago about big bars. And you will clearly see the difference
@@AceBullion in deed
sir you are correct I digress
sir you are correct I digress
Great video on what to do if you think something is fake. Thanks for sharing. ATB & GL Always
As mentioned there is the gravity test, but I neglected to mention it in my video.
Thank you for your support and watching
How did it turn out was it fake?
I sent it in for a chemical test after it was flaking and powder like in my hands. I have been working with silver for years as ace bullion and never has powder come out of silver if cut
Bro I think your bar is real ?????
Bud, I put this in a HCL solution, the silver dissolved but there was another metal in the mix that didn't. I have been testing fakes for years now. This is a very old video but it was one of the real FAKES! Google fake pamp and you can clearly find ALOT out there. See here www.fakebullion.com/index.php/component/k2/item/41-pamp-suisse-fortuna-1-ounce-silver-bar-in-assay-card-gen-3
@@AceBullion sir you are correct I digress
sir you are correct I digress
It may just be me but I've yet 2get a fake out of 1,000tozs and years of acquiring silver, I've talked 2 people that has but what I pay close attention to is the thickness, I know exactly what I'm buying and it would be hard to fool me
When I first started buying, I never knew, my previous purchases were through main dealers and they are Vaulted. But in a private scale I just bought. Later I decided to view, and check my stock. I ran into 3 to 5 max. Bit I then actively searched for fakes and did a special on that
I've been doing this since the early 2000's and have seen many fakes. All my fakes came from local coin shops though and never from online guys. I've had fake pandas, ASE, SML, silvertowne, sunshine mint, highland mint, Scottsdale, golden state mint, and fake Engelhard.
Each time though I caught the fake at home and went back to the shop and either got a replacement or money back. Now a days though shops have various none destructive testers but still some are getting by.
Did you buy that one knowing that it was a fake ? Or did you get it in a job lot ? Which ever way I hope you got your money back
No, I bought it ALONG time ago. At the time I recieved it I knew it was wrong. I contacted the police and I got my money back. It was a eBay purchase and having done a acid test at the time in front of them they were happy too. They didn't want the bar. So I was able to keep it. I have been moving stuff in and out of safes and found it marked FAKE. I remembered the story and thought I would destroy it and show it off. Now it's in my workshop awaiting refining. I will determine all metals involved.
jonrms sounds like a good plan and glad it was all sorted in the end that's why I'm very careful where and who I buy from 👍
@@AgDUK I completely agree. I know it's only 1oz ( supposed to be ) but that can add up quickly. This was during the height of fakes, I bet people still have these in their safes not knowing
is it soft like pure silver ?
Yes and no. I suspect it's nickel
That’s because they are buying the real thing, then keeping the sliver. Then they replace fake silver on the same package.
No, they do make the packaging as well. It is close to the original, but after handing thousands of them easily identified now.
Interesting video, maybe a specific gravity test could help.
It's too late to do that, but it was only just over with packaging. It failed the acid test. Then weighed it failed that out of its package. I will refine it and find out what metals are present when I do.
@@AceBullion did you ever figure out what type of metal(s) they used to create the fake bullion ?
@@AceBullion that sucks bad. I can not stand theiving ass cheaters
I have 3 types of 2.5 gram silver fortunas I bought from APMEX a few months apart. The front is the same but slight differences on the back.
This was a old video, and the bars were at least 4 years old as Pamp now have a veriscan system. Look at the comments, but this was genuinely fake. If your in doubt and purchased it from Apnex, speak to them. Hopefully they put a serial number on your invoice. Things have gone past dealers before but if purchased recently chances are it's genuine. But ANY doubts go straight back to the supplier👍👍
I don't know what the heck you have there, metal wise, but the Schwerter's test didn't come back red, not at all. It ain't silver. It's definitely an amazingly convincing fake, especially considering the packaging. Lacking an XRF, perhaps a specific grav test would furnish a clue, but I'd be very curious as to an XRF result.
Tungsten. Silver plated
@@AceBullion Surprising. A difficult metal to work with, very tough, very high melt temp. How to get it into a form with such detail as a PAMP bar? I think it can be sintered (compressed from powder) but even then it's not easy to get serialized bars. Do you happen to know if add'l fake bars had *different serial nos?* As you say, it's surprising to see that much effort go into faking silver.
Cant u weigh it without the packaging?
No. This is an extremely old video of one of many fakes I have undercovered. Stay tuned next week for something VERY scary and fake
Letters were used before the sn only after 2003 or so. I guess you never saw the several types made that never had serial numbers
You made several comments on here and as this was a early video exposing fakes, which this was make no mistake! 1 comment is more than sufficient which I replied to. Look at my more recent fakes. I deal in Silver daily, its my job! Larger bars never had a letter on the Serial number. I wish you could have seen it but clearly unconvinced you can take my word or not. I have shown plenty of replicas and fakes. Even faje PGCS graded !!! 🙄🙄🙄
Another give away was the "999", there was no point like the real one ".999" or ".9999"
Hadn't spotted that 👍👍👍🍺🍺🍺
You just destroyed a perfectly fine Pamp bar. The silver Pamp bars go as follows: oldest Lady Fortuna have no assay or serial number, next oldest have assay & serial number with no letter preceding the number and finally the newer bars have the the letter in front. You can read this on Pamp website. Also look at the signature on assay it will correspond with the the time period in which the bar was made. Take care.
It was a tin alloy. I tested it along time ago
really no letter in front?i bought one could be old without letter and im a bit suspicious even if i bought it from bullion store
You should have used a torch on it and if it turned pure red its silver until it liquifies.
Thank you, it was along time ago, I do have some known fakes so I will dedicate that video for you. PS the fakes I have atm are magnetic so it's a dead giveaway
If u get a fake online don't send it back to them cause they will just rip off someone else
Absolutely right!
How do counterfeiters get away with making fakes? You'd think the chain of custody of most high value bullion would be known. It seems like people would only buy from reputable dealers, and that reputable dealers would test all bullion they buy from independent sellers. If anyone was caught trying to sell fakes, they would be questioned by police about where they aquired the bullion themselves. It's hard for me to fathom that people get away with this without someone turning them in to authorities relatively quickly. I guess they must change names and addresses frequently.
There are many ways to go about it. I do not want to give anything away for crooks to use. But plenty of easy ways to hide it sadly. I hear 1 over and over. 🤬 look at some of the latest fakes. I have done a few videos on them. Even Gold Sovereigns. And yes they fool experts!
@@AceBullion Thanks for responding and also for not giving away any tricks that might help crooks. Now that you say it, I can imagine how they might be able to trick the standard tests. That's scary, especially with gold. I'll look for some of your more recent videos about fakes - I just found your channel today.
@Brushstroke ohh thank you. 😊 I hope you enjoy the channel. I review coins every Monday, Wednesday, & Friday. And I occasionally do a livestream for the forum like today. But livestreams are rare now. I have to make lots of shiny silver goodies 😊. Check out the Precious metal forum www.thepreciousmetalforum.com it is 100% FREE with no payments or special treatment to anyone. A family environment
@@AceBullion Awesome, thanks for the hearty welcome and recommendation to the forum! The stacking/collecting community seems like a relatively open, friendly, and non-judgmental community, at least compared to the toy collecting "community" which is often great, but also strangely snarky and mean at times.
never good to see but thanks for showing and informing us
Thank you for watching,
You can just tell by the quality that shit is fake as hell! Pamps quality is outstanding and very consistent if your unsure its most likely fake!
Absolutely. This video is a bit old now but your spot on. Recently the fakes are even scarier
@@AceBullion i wish pamp would make their silver veriscan as well! I buy their gold alot just for that reason it makes life so much easier and you know its legit.
@@tylerfortin4937 I too wish the same thing. A few companies tried it but it seems to not be popular. WHY? It bugs me. My silver that I pour is hallmarked, straight forward easy way to tell and full legal protection. Where hallmarks do not exist, we rely upon the reputation of the company. But Pamp do not seem to chase legal action. 😕
@@AceBullion yes sir well when in doubt i have access to a sigma at my local pawn shop I’ll occasionally bring samples in to be tested so far everything has been good. 🤞 im also a card and guitar collector so im very good at spotting fake items! Its a good skill to have.
@@tylerfortin4937 on cards absolutely. The age old tricks. Guitars ??? Never thought about fakes with these. But yep. 🙏
Scary!!
it is expecially if you're just starting off. Nothing is safe from being faked. Google something you think is safe and I am almost sure there has been a fake made of it.
Only one I have without the letter first is pamp lady fortuna 50 gram. So I looked at it on apmex sight and it also does not have a letter first. So from my research lady fortuna 50gram In assay does not have a letter first.
I don't think on the larger bars they all have assays. But always be careful!!! Apmex won't sell fakes!!! But on 1oz bars bewarned. PS this was 1 ozt
My first silver bar
I got it from jm bullion
I think it's fake
Theres no letter at the beginning of the numbers on the back
It says 999 not 999.0
Also the bottom of the bar
The special marking is not at the bottom
It's like the last 2 lines are reversed
Don't know what to do
Of you want, as this is a extremely old post, when you are available to do so send it yo me and I will go through it with a fine tooth comb.
@@AceBullion how can I send it to you
Thank you
@@truckersparadise7801 email me jonrms2000@yahoo.co.uk I will give you easy details. Its not difficult nor hard to follow, and not expensive either
this video scares the shit out of me
Sorry but the fakes have evolved since this video.
I just bought a 5oz pamp suisse bar today and it doesn't have a letter in front and it has a low serial number, was this like the first batches ?
I would like to see the front, rear and size. Do you have a normal 5oz pamp bar to compare it to?
Someone is on the local Facebook site trying to sell generic looking .999 gold bars for $15 each.
And people are actually messaging him saying they want to buy it all. lol. It looks like a bunch of Chinese fakes.
Yep sadly my dealer had these tested. Fakes
Make another doing the same test on a real bar
I am happy to, I melt down bars anyway, so I have no reservations in replicating this. I can always use them for my poured Bullion. www.acebullion.co.uk
@@AceBullion thanks I'll be waiting for the video
@@inhawaii4941 👍👍👍
Why why why
Lots of fakes about
The design of the lady on the fake bar looks really bad compared to the real one. Maybe thats enough of a give away?
👍👍👍 Side by side next time I find one this bad, realistic.
Think you are wrong
Thank you for your comment, it was destroyed and proven to be fake by my assay office. I have a host of fakes in a collection and some can fool experts.
There are 7 known types of Fortuna in 1 oz. Older types are larger, just as here.
I'm terrified to buy now
This was a OLD video that I wish I was able to show more of what I know NOW in that. And if thus scares you I suggest looking at some of my recent videos that I produced. I had a Fake week. Yes it actually was a week all about fake Gold Silver and well you will have to watch. 👍👍
I think you are wanting it to be fake. That one looks legit.
Thos video was made along time ago, and was a fake. I submit all my bullion to be assayed at Edinburgh assay office. This was analysed and was tungsten
Where did you buy the fake one from so I know to stay away from
It's along time ago, sorry I have no idea
MMM interesting I sometimes test my silver and the only thing that I have found is that the Acid does get weaker after a long period of time.. I do hate fakes and the people that make then ,Yes Hate is a harsh word but it ruins a great hobby and the penalties if found guilty, from what ever Country they came from should be much harsher..
Yes I too Hate the people making these. This was bought along time ago in good faith but I knew at the time it was fake. I notified the police and showed them a fresh acid test. I got a crime number and my money back. But I kept it, the police didn't want it. The acid is a bit old but it still failed the test. It was a light blue purple colour. I tested the acid after on a piece of silver I know is real and it's a blood red.
Glad to hear that.I save every cent ,outside all my living expenses to buy a round and I feel Gutted if I get ripped off..I will say most people are honest..All the best,Bradley..
@@THEDRAGONBOOSTER8 Thank you for your support Bradley
So John, this doesn't happen if you buy direct from reputable mints correct? Why would you buy from anywhere else? What was this an ebay?
@@parkhillmedia I believe you mean Reputable Dealers, because a Mint clearly won't be selling fakes. Yes, reputable dealers if you are in the UK I can name a few. But anywhere else someone can help. This was bought online, from EBay most likely. It was many years ago and I did get my money back. But EBay has Reputable companies such as Apmex , Bullion by Post, etc I hope this helps
lol how shite the serial number is on the fake bar, the numbers are like a row in an old graveyard
Lol
I believe that bar was Real it was a Early PAMP bar.
It wasn't. It was tungsten amongst other alloys. It was confirmed later. See my recent fakes!!!
@@AceBullion ok. i will check.
Always buy direct from suisse gold limited .com the refinery' in Switzerland who post to all over the civilised world don't buy from eBay or Amazon
This is a blast from the past, lol but yes.
hm
A old video, but genuinely a fake. Infact I will be buying some fake gold and silver carded versions that came out recently. 🤬 Only to show how good the fakes have improved
Thickness thickness thickness is key look out for it
Goes for gold too
Absolutely, but this is 100% genuine and came from the Royal mint to the Silver Trader and to me.
Whoops wrong video!!! See some of my NEWER fake videos! Thicknesses doesn't mean anything. Same diameter etc
you have just ruined a silver bar, congrats
Thank you for your comment, but no I did not. This was a very early video I made but I can assure you it was 100% fake.
Not fake
Sorry but this was a Fake
@@AceBullion s
he should have tested using 18K acid if it turns a battle ship gray then it's find silver if it turned purple that means it's not pure silver
As I was the one making this video. And it was the first fake that I cut open. I wish I would have done things differently back then. Now it's much harder and the Acid test is useless.
@@AceBullion on silver always use acid for 18K gold most effective test will turn silver that's .999 battle ship gray and more bluer for sterling silver
@@apr194828 no need, check out this link I made. I did a entire Fake week. It was rather scary. ua-cam.com/video/FVUc5AT47lo/v-deo.html
First! 👌🏼
Someone took time to fake 1oz silver when it was 16$ common man!
Yes and it's still being done. I have a box of fakes.
Wow you mean even in certificate package, it can be fake? That’s not possible!
Sarcasm
I know, lol. There have been plenty of fakes since I first made this. Some good some horrible. My videos have also improved
You could have done a specific gravity test. Unless you're a flat-earther that is.
Yes I could have, and I could have done ALOT of other tests, this is ancient!!!
👍
I have both of these PAMP bars, a very recent one and a much older one, which had the serial number just as in the first bar did. It passed the magnet test and the acid test, and tarnishes quite deep if you dont post-treat the metal after gently cleaning and drying. They are just an older version, if you look with a loupe into the etched serial numbers you will se it is silver. And just like at 3:30, you can see how deep the silver is.. it is a real bar. Your just ruining it :'[
No it was fake. It was tungsten filles. It was confirmed by a chemical destruction assay.
Hi sadly it is a real bar. The acid you used is old. You can tell when you squeezed it out of the acid bottle. You should have tested that acid on another bar at the same time.
@@anonymousanon9084 read the above reply. It was assayed by a chemical destruction test.
@@AceBullion You have the assay report though? That's crazy someone would go to such lengths.. what was it, 69% silver?? 🧐
It was years ago but it had Silver, tungsten, nickel and I think some iron.
Looks real to me. Who would go to the trouble of faking a one ounce bar that goes into a certified card. Makes no sense. You just ruined a nice PAMP bar. It was probably just an older bar with different font. You ruined it, it's real!
1oz silver bars are faked more than you know, Google it! I have been doing this for a very long time, I was made aware of these fakes by a dealer. I can't remember the destruction test results but it was NOT 999 silver. But did have silver in it.
@@AceBullion , Yes, one ounce bars are faked. But mostly the ones that are not in a certified package. That's too much trouble to go through for just one ounce of silver worth less than 20.00. Doesn't make sense. Regular loose one ounce bars I can see, not PAMP.
@@abruegger007 I can send you links to buy these,
Silver Gobbler it’s cheaper to fake smaller bars more profitable to the scammers. And if it’s not 999 silver it’s fake so he kinda didn’t ruin are bar he done a favor by destroying it to show you people who clearly think it’s real .
I agree he sure was a lunatic, I think he needs a doctor!!!
Stop buying from china 😂
🤣🤣🤣
That assyer didn't have a letter before the bar no's its just an older bar I buy from the refinery and I have many that don't have letters assayer syseuel bars usually don't have a letter the reason they make fakes is in some countries £30 is a months wages that's a good sallery £30 even if he sells one but I guess they flood the market and ppl will have fake bars sitting for years and if caught they will say I'm sorry send it back n refund u like a ponsi scheme