Drifting on Torsen Limited Slip Differential / Quaife ATB
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- Опубліковано 6 чер 2017
- A day at the skidpad for drifting practice in the BMW 135i with a Helical Gear LSD! Main focus was to practice proper transitioning with smooth weight shifts and linking drift sequences. Here are my best 3 continuous drift combinations of the day. The Quaife's Automatic Torque Biasing works pretty decent!
Drifts were done on a worn out staggered setup of 235-front / 265-rear Hankook RS3 tires. Great tires for going sideways. They don't heat up too quickly and last longer than expected but not the tire to have if you like seeing lots of smoke!
A short "Hollywood" edit based on these footages here: • Practicing the Art of ...
Thanks to:
-SpeedSF for organizing a great day at the skidpad.
-Lin for trailing behind as close as possible in his Miata and recording that exterior footage.
-Joe for the iPhone footage of that second exterior shot.
Cameras:
GoPro HERO 5 Black - Helmet
GoPro HERO 4 Black - Mid-Cabin
GoPro HERO 4 Silver - Rear Exterior
GoPro HERO 3+ Black - Pedals - Авто та транспорт
GAAAAH!!! Looks like so much fun!!
POTATOJET WYD HERE
The footwork I had to see, awesome video!
Thanks for your veiws in steering and foot work...i saw some good skills
👊👊🙏
That's what i was looking for before deciding to buy it. SOLD!😂
😁
Now I know what my next mod will be
😄
Nice drifting!
Thanks Pere!
How does it feel ? I know a 25% LSD. this was awesome in my 328i 🙈 any difference to atb?
Super smooth, hard to tell when it engages, almost too smooth. It works in the background and does so very well. It’s an ATB.
Nice driving! Any issues with spinning the inside wheel with this type of diff?
Thx! None at all - power is distributed to the wheel that needs it seamlessly.
Does the Torsen LSD wear out more one tire then the other? I have drifted few cars with Clutch LSD but never Torsen. Thanks
No, tire wear seems even. I do make sure the car is always good with a balanced wheel alignment and even tire pressures. I sometimes use a pyrometer to ensure temperatures are even across the tread and tire set. When doing drift events that is more clockwise or counterclockwise, more tire wear on one side is within expectations.
what diff do you use? Because gear diff is welded in the manual 135I
Found a bolted diff from a junkyard. Early 335i’s from before sometime in 2007 had bolted diffs.
The welded diff can also be converted into a bolted one with proper machine work (but I think there are only very places that do this).
how reliable is the torsen? considering a built miata wich has the torsen and i dont want to much hassle
As reliable as can be! Probably can’t ask for more reliability out of diff that’s driven hard on the track and at drift events :)
its that the stock diff or an lsd?
Quaife
So are Torsens like Quaife or blackline any good for drifting? Heard much about they’re a lot less responsive than clutch lsd. But I’m searching for something that mixes up the daily and drifter… drifting on wet roads with not much power (like 200hp or so) and not necessarily high speeds… rather low speeds… does the torsen work out for me?
Is it worth it going from an stock open diff to an torsen differential?
🤔 I’d check your car forum or local Indy shop with experience in motorsports. I’d probably go clutch lsd for a lower powered car. The torsen naturally adds some understeer (stability) and can make it hard to maintain an oversteer condition or a drift.
The open diff has to go if you like to drift or do any performance driving
@@Milkywave thx for the answer. but im afraid there no clutch type differentials for my car (E60).
Only found torsen diffs :/
Ah bummer. The torsen will still give you a lot more control (and fun) than the stock open diff. Fortunately, you can compensate with modifications in suspension, chassis geometry, reverse staggered tires (smaller rear), getting good at clutch kicking, etc, to get your car more drift capable.
After writing all that, I checked diffsonline.com - I think they make great diffs for BMWs (used by a lot of top club racers) they make clutch diffs for the E60!
diffsonline.com/collections/5-series
@@Milkywave thanks for your help and time buddy, appreciate it !
Do you like the quaife diff ?
I like it :) It engages super smooth and can’t beat the low maintenance. I strongly considered changing to a clutch based diff with more lock but then I asked myself why change a good thing? It’s been serving me well on the track, for drifting, autox, and in low traction / wet conditions on the street.
Thinking about this diff for my 370z. How is it for drifting? I would rather not get a superlock or weld as I want the drive ability with less chatter
It’s very good for drifting. I love how it is so smooth and silent which makes it great for the street. I strongly considered upgrading to the OSG, but learned this diff is more than sufficient unless you want maximum control over your drifts (and hold extreme angles) and/or are building a dedicated drift car.
Check out my bro doing some serious drifts here: ua-cam.com/video/GX9L5C3Ry3U/v-deo.html He’s using the same diff :)
@@Milkywave how long have you had it? Has it caused you any problems?
Since 2015. No issues. It starting weeping oil from one of the axle seals after a few years of drifting and numerous racetrack events. It still ran fine though. The leak was so minor I was able to postpone replacing the seal for a couple more years.
@@Milkywave I don’t drift that much but I probably would want to after this diff haha. Do you remember what bushings and seals you purchased along with it? It shouldn’t have leaked
The seals were factory BMW originals that came with the diff pumpkin housing, which was from a junkyard. If you replace with new OE seals at install, you should be fine. The bushings were originals from my car and reused.
People usually say that this style LSD (Torsen/Quaife/Helical) can make the rear end unpredictable in drift when compared to a clutch plate style diff. You seem to manage just fine though, is it still progressive and communicative enough when sliding for something that is so effective for track driving?
+Kunle Fadare Yes, it’s still very predictable and communicative in slides or drifts. People who are very comfortable with clutch based diffs may feel the Torsen as less predictable because of its more progressive behavior - almost too smooth as it reacts to the driver’s throttle inputs. There might be a perceived delay in the car’s intended yaw angle but only because the Torsen is very smoothly transferring power between the wheels.
The clutch diff can lock up and transfer power more suddenly, and allow the driver to achieve the desired rotation more quickly as well as fine tune the yaw angle more instantly - why drifters usually prefer this diff. Extreme drift angles are easier to maintain.
Not the easiest to explain, but hopefully it makes sense!
Milkywave thanks for the detailed response, I really appreciate it.
I have a 2016 230i and for the most part It’s amazing. It’s my daily so the suspension is a happy compromise but the diff is easily the weak link. Even in the dry in tight turns a wheel will spin and then TC kills everything let alone the wet. I have no idea how bmw get away with it in the straight 6 turbo cars, especially when they could just get economies of scale by going direct to the supplier and fitting it as an oem part.
In any case, this sounds like the perfect solution, thanks again 👍🏾
+Kunle Fadare It sure is a shame BMW does not equip this outside of their ///M cars, but my guess is they think this will “protect” the sales of their ///M lineup.
Consider the Wavetrac over the Quaife if you are set on the Torsen. This would be my choice if I were to go back as it has the additional feature of still working with zero load on one wheel. For me this rarely occurs if ever, but still nice to have. The Wavetrac is also proving to be very reliable and durable in countless cars.
Milkywave thanks for the sound advice, the wavetrac diffs are a little harder to get hold of over here but they remain the same price so it’s the one to get. Cheers.
+Kunle Fadare Where are you?
haha a bit ragged but did the job. were you getting much inside wheel spin?
I think so. That day, the car was on a very staggered setup (235/265) with not enough front camber, so the front was pushing a lot and constantly losing grip mid-drift, often wanting to go into a 4 tire slide lol.
I plan to post a few new drifting videos this month, with a less staggered setup that helps quite a bit. More front camber now (-3.1) and also new suspension setup which has made drifting easier and much more fun. The Quaife works even better now :)
@@Milkywave what shocks and springs are you running now? I just put Bilstein B8s and Intrax springs on my car, corners much flatter now, although before the lean flagged when the car would loose traction, now it is a bit more of a surprise! ;-) So do you have multiple sets of wheels then and did you adjust the camber yourself or did you get a wheel alignment done at a garage for that?
@@fabiandee8178 MCS singles with 60mm Swift springs 8kg/14kg. There was occasional coil bind with the previous Ohlins setup (in the front), but that's a thing of the past now. Spring rates are a little stiffer than before, but ride quality has somehow improved. Body control and handling performance is on another level. I do have multiple sets of wheels, and I do alignments myself now.
What is your camber/castor setup?
Camber at -2.4 with Vorshlag camber plates. Castor maxed out at 7.3.
What did you have to do to get that high castor? Do you know if -3 camber is enough for force feedback?
The camber plates helped achieve that. I haven’t tried -3 camber yet, but there’s plenty of feel in the steering wheel at -2.4. Make sure to swap the front arms for the 1M/M3 ones for best feedback.
Ahh... Alright, I was thinking steering kit and longer/stronger arms from what I heard from the internets. I am trying to get it right on my E39 540i, I have the plates, but unsure doing that high of a castor is gonna be a problem, might try +5 with -3/-4 camber. Thanks for the information!
What final drive did you go with 3.08 or 3.46? Btw, I came across this comment on a BMW Forum, is this right that the entire final drive unit must be replaced on a 135i and the costs are close to 4000 £ ?
"All 135i manuals and late model 335i manuals come from BMW with a welded ring gear. The solution is to replace the entire final drive unit with a Quaife final drive, which is built from a brand new BMW final drive($2000) and Quaife($1450), plus seals, gasket, and labor."
I went with 3.08. Yes, the entire pumpkin must be replaced. My shop found a low mileage bolted one from a junkyard so my cost was around $3k fully installed with core swap.
ua-cam.com/video/XhoEHnSYFPs/v-deo.html cheaper solution for that