Even now, I can hear the orcs from the LOTR movie shouting: "Grond! Grond! Grond!" ...and I can see Gandalf who looks terrified at the enormous battering ram
That's why I disliked the scene in the movie. Gandalf is a damn maia and has seen so many worse things in his time. He might look tired, or weary or even worried, but terrified is just too much.
@@andreiaurariu8931 That's the point. It should not have frightened him. He faced down a Balrog already. He used to have personal audience with Nienna (a full Vala), which would be terrifying, and came out of it with wisdom. The most he should be is worried for the humans that would die that day, but he should not feel fear. It's like that other scene where the Witch-King breaks his staff despite having no such capability.
@@Count.Saruman fair enough, but to be honest, I did like a little bit to see Gandalf scared xd ...keeps the tension in the air and makes you to see what's coming next..I did not read the books, but maybe one day I will do. Overall, LOTR and The Hobbit trilogies are my favourite above other movies
Interesting how Sauron chose a wolf motif for his own vision of Grond, considering that Sauron was the maker of the Werewolves in the First Age, even possessing the ability at one time to transform into a large wolf.
technically Morgoth was the one that came up with Werewolves, but Sauron was the one that actually brought them to fruition, and Werewolves followed their true master (Sauron) on to the end of the 3rd age.
I thinks the Wolf theme of Grond symbolizes the Great Wolf Carcharoth, who bit the hand of Beren holding a Silmaril. Due to Carcharoth’s evil nature the Silmaril burned him from his insides, driving him mad with pain.
Yes, and it actually achieved something, despite appearances. So traumatised and injured was Morgoth (both from Fingolfin's attacks and that of Thorondor) that he never again came out to fight anyone until the host of the Valar came, unroofed his citadel and found him cowering in the bottom-most pits. Imagine if Morgoth had won without any cost to himself? He might have taken to the battlefield more, to the ruin of the Eldar.
I've been thinking. I've been thinking about the possible scenario of the what if numenor used its full resources to conquer me. Phase one if forces are not already complete. Immediate naval blockade of Lindon. Landing troops in the old site of Lond daer. To make camps between what would've been THARBAD to down to the mouth of the river. To 'siege' eriador and the elves, middle men and faithful numenorians living in the area. At same time id construct the equivalents of isengard and helms deep till in their relevant places to prevent flank attacks by greenwood and lorien. Phase two Immediately gather my colonies at umbar and to the south and my client states to muster a large force of arms to march north and pacify the area known as gondor to fight the faithful there. Using my fleet to provide naval support and eventually reinforcements from numenor to destroy and capture the faithful ports.. Phase three. March north and fight lorien. Essentially to destroy the forest to prevent places to hide. These are the forces of king amdir. Any survivors might flee to greenwood, imladris and if they are friendly to the dwarves which I'm not sure about, khazad dum. Then in a reverse of the last alliance March from north to south, id go to south to north for the passes leading to imladris to attack the flank. While that goes on, my forces south of eriador will after receiving steady reinforcements, would march north across the river. Split into three prongs. Phase four One prong will head to Lindon proper to pin down reinforcements, while supplied by the fleet. The center prong with cleanse the area which would've become arnor to wipe out the elves, and faithful and enslave the middle men. The right flank would join up with the army that secured, (gondor and Rohan and lorien) and attack the rear of any elven forces and survivors who fled to imladris. Once Elrond and any force is gone, both armies to join the middle prong to reform and join the left prong holding down Lindon. Phase four. Full scale assault on the borders of Lindon to the Grey havens. Long bloody campaign since escape is impossible thanks to my numenorian fleet. Then besiege the havens and assault it on one flank and a second flank like a d day style landing with reinforcements from the south and additional from numenor. Phase five The Eldar are gone, the faithful are gone. Spend a few years resupply and securing everything west of the anduin river. When time is right go full force including a repeat of lorien on a grandeur scale on the kingdom of greenwood and the realms of men to the east. I don't know if the dwarves can be conquered or if all halls and Dwarven kingdom's can be taken. Maybe the ones in the blue mountains and iron hills. Unlikely khazad dum and erebor. Maybe the gray mountains? Any thoughts or comment's would be welcomed 😊👍
Absolutely. The visuals Tolkien painted of him riding alone into Angband, eyes ablaze, was just remarkable. One of my favorite stories from the Silmarillion. It was truly Epic.
I could see how the original mace Grond could have been reforged into parts of Grond, the battering ram. For example, they could have used the iron to band the wood or to form the wolf's head. Such iron would likely have had tremendous power just from being associated with Morgoth and would have greatly enhanced any enchantments by the Witch-King. That is, if it did survive into the Third Age to be claimed by him.
But how could Sauron get access to Grond remains? The orcs would have to dive in the see with some scuba diving technology to find Grond and get it out from the sunken ruins of Angband.
@@morgothfromangband6082 A lot was done in the wars of the Witch-King that's not mention so it's possible with his sorcery that he corrupted or influenced a sea monster to recover pieces, think about the Watcher of the Water near the entrance of Moria, it seemed to be only after Frodo, as Gandalf said, "There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of the world."
It seems to me more likely that it would be, at least in part, of the Warhammer of Morgoth than it being of entirely new smelt. Tolkien tended to change the names of items as they reforged but not to rename something else, that is entirely different, the same name. Grond The Wolf’s Head and Grond The Warhammer therefore are not entirely different after all. Sauron would have remembered the power imbued within his master’s mace that brought down Fingolfin and spent a tremendous amount of resources to retrieve it. No doubt he had the time and would have known it’s whereabouts within his own realm of influence. I’d like to think that task would have been appointed unto the Witch-King to raise it. Regardless, it doesn’t seem like Tolkien to be that lazy and simply recycle the name Grond and more likely that he definitely knew how to reward the reader with the awesome deep lore within his own epic.
I receny watched Return of the King on 4k with mighty audio system. Man, when orcs shouted GROND, it was so epic and terrifying to see and hear!! Nerd this is once again great and interesting video!
My fan theory is that Grond II was forged at Mount Doom; Rings of Power & Third Age, IIRC, mentions that Sauron used the fires of Mount Doom in his sorceries and forgings, but the only item we know for certain was forged there was the One Ring. Grond II is a good candidate for another, even if not explicitly stated.
3:24 This whole reading has got to be one of my favorite passages in Return of the King. The Arm of Sauron in its full strength and terror! Very well done!
I personally love the idea the the mace and the battering ram are the same. I think it makes Morgoth seem that much more powerful and terrifying and shows just how much more intense the first age was. Even if it’s not as likely of a theory, it’s my favorite 🙂
There's a point where you have to accept that if the text explicitly tells us where it came from, and that it was only named after the original, it's a different weapon. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if the original Grond was even more powerful. I would almost be surprised if it *wasn't,* even. The First Age was something else. Battles that literally shook and reshaped the world itself, and Grond as Morgoth's own weapon would have likely been one of the most powerful artifacts around even there.
Awesome! Iain McKellens protral of Gandalfs out of place fear in the movies may indicate he was one of the few who understood the significance of it . Names had power like Eärendil
Fantastic episode. I absolutely love how metal Tolkien's writing can be and the passages in this video were perfect examples. On an unrelated note, I've been wondering more with each video how large your Tolkien Art folder is.
I don’t think Sauron or Morgoth would use the Sindarin names for things. It’s likely that neither used the word “grond” to describe their own respective items. Sauron likely used black speech words (in the third age) and Morgoth possibly used a form Quenya or “Melkian” or Valarin.
@@ryancruz1876 Sauron was very skilled in both Elven Languages, as shown by his time in Eregion and the writing on the rings. He had no qualms with appropriating elvish script and names (Annatar). Black Speech was mostly made as a device for his servants to speak, not himself. As for Melkian, it is- like Aulëan and Oromëan- a primitive form of Valarin that Tolkien eventually abandoned as an idea. Going on from this, Morgoth may not have called his hammer Grond, but Sauron might have been aware that the elves called it that, and renamed his battering ram 'Grond' to evoke the same fear and terror as the name is historically significant.
Well, Grond was a masterpiece of Orcish craftsmanship, metallurgy, engineering and even dark magic. Its dark steel was of the finest quality, lovingly shaped into the form of a menacing wolf, and on it were spells of ruin. It was like a beloved mascot of their whole army and military culture. Damn right they were proud of it!
I wish Grond the ram was actually Grond the hammer, too big to be used without Morgoth, so they build a giant cradle to carry it out of Beleriand and take it to Mordor.
I think Pengoloth would’ve named Morgoth’s hammer “grond”, while Frodo, who undoubtedly read Pengolath’s accounts of the elder days, possibly named Sauron’s battering ram after Morgoth’s hammer.
@@Manco65 There are centuries of time between the War of Wrath and the War of the Ring, plenty enough for Sauron to recover those metal fragments, one way or another
This was a very minor part of the video, but at 6:08 I love the art work depicting Shadowfax standing over and striking fear into the mount of the Witch King
about to comment how I have never heard of 'Gond' until I looked at it again with 48 hours no sleep and realized there was an R in there....regardless...Love your videos...as someone who is a relatively 'new' tolkien fan....(decided to read all his possible works when I heard the movies where being made) even though tolkien has been in my family since the very beginning and heard about it all my life...I love hearing in depth analysis and break down of the lore. Your videos have answered a lot of questions I have had. Well done indeed.
Thank you for this!! I’m a newer fan, I started reading Tolkien 5 months ago... so far I’ve finished lotr, the hobbit, the children of Hurin, Beren and luthien, and the silmarillion... now I’m looking for more! But your videos are very helpful.
High King Fingolfin is one of my absolute favorite characters of the Legendarium, but whenever I think about him and his duel with Morgoth all I can wonder is WHAT IN THE HELL WAS HE THINKING?! Fingolfin may have been one of the best warriors in the history of Middle Earth or even in the history of all of Arda, but Morgoth was essentially a god. Fingolfin had to know that he had no chance of winning that battle, none at all. So why did he do it?!? I do, however, love the fact that he permanently crippled Morgoth with Ringil, the very same sword that Morgoth himself had helped him forge back in Valinor! I have to laugh at the thought of Morgoth cursing himself for ever teaching Fingolfin how to forge swords while he limped around Angband, agony stabbing through his crippled foot with every step he took. Not only was Morgoth/Melkor completely unable to get Fingolfin to attack Feanor with Ringil, but then Fingolfin turned around and used Ringil on him instead! That is almost poetic.
Morgoth's defeat was like a death by a thousand cuts, and Fingolfin dealt not just one but seven to the Black Foe. In addition, he put fear and respect for his people into Morgoth and humiliated him in front of his lieutenants. This in turn inspired the Elder and Edain to further heroism and keep fighting against overwhelming odds. When one falls, another takes his place, and so on, and so on, until the final cut of Morgoth's defeat. It was suicide for the High King, but he was a great leader who was prepared to inspire all heroes after himself through the sacrifice. Truly epic.
I wonder where you get ideas for amazing videos like this, Nerd of the Rings. It's good to know more about Grond. Well, it's good to know more about anything of Arda.
Hey, NoTR... I just wanted to tell you that the captions looked spot-on this week. I'm sure it will be greatly appreciated by many. As always, I LOVE your channel. Thanks!!! PS - I had to order the Washington fleece blanket from Lord of The Maps! It's totally cool! Thanks for the discount code!
I wish they had kept the Witch Kings sorcery in the films, it gives him such a more direct presence in the battle But I guess I understand what P.J kept him in the air in the films, it would be kind of weird to see the Witch King on a horse and then moments later in the air on a Fell Beast
First thing I saw when I woke up is a new video from Nerd of the Rings. Today's going to be a good day lol But seriously I know it takes time to research and edit and everything else that you have to do to keep making great videos. Thank you!!
I'm pretty nerdy, but before I found this channel, I'd never seen lord of the rings and only read the hobbit. Because I know nothing about it and your voice is beautiful, it's been an amazing channel to fall asleep to lol. But now I've seen the movies because of you and can appreciate your videos to the fullest. Anyways thank you!
There is so much material which can be filmed i hope we have some productions. Keep up the good work and I love your sketches!! Thank you for the effort you put in it.
Would be an interesting sight to have a mace the size of a giant battering ram pulled by trolls hurling towards you by a single figure. Talk about a headache lol. Great video Matt!
Oooh, that's interesting. I think there's a line in the books where Gandalf said it would have been him, Gimli, Frodo, Sam, and maybe one other going past Gondor.
@@peterk7428 The line you're looking for is in "The Breaking of the Fellowship" - Aragorn is discussing what to be done at Parth Galen, and he mentions Sam, "who could not bear it otherwise; Gimli; and myself."
The homage to his masters weapon was likely to strike fear into the elves and awe into the orcs, foretelling how mighty this war machine was that it’s named after the weapon of choice of essentially the devil.
I think it’s cool that the battering ram Grond takes 3 blows to breach the gate of Minis Tirith, and it also take 3 strikes from Melkor with his war hammer to defeat Fingolfin. As a wise man once said, “it’s like poetry, sort of, they rhyme.”
We used to have everyone chant Grond when sieging in ESO. Also, gardening in Minis Tirith is hell, that damn catwalk casts everything in shadow for half the day.
I thought it was made to be a sort of mix between weapon and effigy to Carcharoth, the hound of Angband. However, I honestly think that it's made of a similar ore. Sauron was a master smith.
GROND! GROND! GROND! Animated or live action version It’s strength brings no shame Be it the weapon of Morgoth or the Battering Ram of Sauron’s forces I will forever chant his name GROND! GROND!! GROND!!!
When I first watched the movies I thought Grond wasn't in the book. It just seemed to "out of place" , like the worms in "The Hobbit" movies. Then I read the book and I couldn't believe Grond was actually in it.
Thank you for this video. I had forgotten the terror of Grond's assault on Minas Tirith. It was Tolkien's astonishing painting of a picture of carnage, chaos and terror. The point of darknest night during the assault on Gondor.
“And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.”
Even if its not orginal Grond it would quite fit Morgoth. Its size matches his in description of fight with Fingolfin. A fact that splits fire from point would be fitting aswell because why not? It was breaking ground making fireish bruises, do I remember right?
The use of Ground, in the siege of Minas Tirith, is proof that Sauron knew how to "manufacture" some kind of gunpowder to blow up the City gate. Saruman must also make use of some "bomb to collapse the walls of Helm's deep. All this is in contrast to Gandalf's "recreational and fun" use of using the same substance to make fireworks. In early versions in the History of Middle Earth: "The teaching of Sauron has led to the invention of ships of metal that traverse the seas without sails, but which are hideous in the eyes of those who have not abandoned or forgotten Tol-eressea; to the building of grim fortresses and unlovely towers; and to missiles that pass with a noise like thunder to strike their targets many miles away.” (-History of Middle-earth 5, The Númenórean chapters, Chapter IV)" It may even be figurative language, but "and to missiles that pass with a noise like thunder to strike their targets many miles away." Rockets? Many miles away? And: "The Atalanteans fall, and rebel. They make a temple toThu-Morgoth.They build an armament and assail the shores of the Gods with thunder."
It would be Sauron of Sauron to take Grond after Morgoth's duel and stashed it away and reforged it into a siege ram. But I side with the ram being named after the mace. Yet again, it wouldn't surprise me if it was the mace reforged
Is this even possible? I mean... look at the one ring. It can't be desktop outside mount doom. Wouldn't it be possibly to be similar with grond? It was melkors mace, thr mace of the most powerful of the valar. Proper one of the most 🔋 being's that eher walked on earth. I actual can't image that it can be just melting
I would hazard a guess that, after the battle of Minas Tirith, Grond lay abandoned near the gates of the city. There may have been an intention to destroy it and salvage the metal, but that would have been delayed until after the war was completely over. There were more immediate actions needed to distract Sauron from Frodo's quest. Being formed by sorcery, Grond would have disintegrated along with all of Sauron's workings when the ring was destroyed.
I agree with your assessment and it was not the original Grond. I think the few orcs and balrog barely made it out of Beleriand they would have only had memories of the previous ages. No way they would have had the change to haul off a weapon like that. Especially if Morgoth used in his fight with Tulkas. So my guess either buried with Angand or destroyed by the Valar's army.
Crossover rules demand that the Black Captain's chanting in a forgotten, evil language before the gates of Minas Tirith be one and the same as the chanting voice in the blood arena of the Sardaukar from Denis Villeneuve's _Dune._
Such awesome lore here, thanks as always! I suspect the Mace of Morgoth/Grond/Hammer of the Underworld probably would have been on the same level of build quality as the One Ring, and is definitely in artifact/legendary status.
Great Video, nice edit and music and great reading! One thing that realy bugs me tho: Beleriand is way oversized on the map you used at 7:09. It's bad in itself that this map even exists, but even more so that a channel of your size uses it. (P.S. Ironicly this happens in a video where "map" is the theme of your sponsor... :P)
I fully get that Morgoth near the end was CONSIDERABLY weaker than Melkor of old, but I sometimes wonder if he was actually aware of how much; why was he afraid? Why did he think a "mere" elf, even a mighty king of the Noldor, could harm his celestial form? Honestly, this is something that I frequently whine about, with Tolkien's works; his beyond mortal beings can be harmed by mundane weapons. And I know, Ringil is hardly "mundane"; if it were D&D, it would be a magical weapon, and bypass DR, too, but it's strange how often Tolkien didn't force his characters to think their way out of conflict. They could still just clobber even the most ascendant angel, and hurt him; his "divine" flesh wasn't hard as dragon scales, nor did he just make kit from one, and cheat. Sauron is similar. I can accept that the Wizards were mortal; enmantled in the bodies of Men, but Sauron should have been more durable. Barring that, maybe the Great craftsman should have forged for himself armor beyond mortal skill, that could protect him, or wear the Ring inside a gauntlet, to keeping out of sight. I'm whining for no reason, I know, and these Dark Lords were always intended to eventually fall, after wrecking their evil, but it just feels weird that beings who maybe were never intended to be harmed could still get injured, be maimed, and despite their advanced status, be felled by the heroes of Illuvatar's children.
I could be mistaken but I think it is only the physical representations of their beings that can be harmed. Fingolfin killing Morgoth would be impossible in the same way that Wormtongue killing Saruman at the end of the RotK was impossible. His essence still exists, even if it lacks a physical form.
@@HarriboFTW To rhw best of my knowledge, you are correct; only his "avatar" could be injured, but that even his physical self was vulnerable, and also permanently damaged, still gets me. He could have made himself of living steel, or whatever hide dragons bounced weapons off with, or reshaped himself in a way to repair his injury, or conceal it elsewhere, instead of permanently limping.
Would love to see a video on the new updates regarding the Amazon Rings of Power series. Interestingly, they have started adding descriptions (Character's name and Actor) to the character posters they had released on their Insta page.
I think the most interesting thing about naming the second Grond after the first is it shows a collective orc memory of the first age. That's a long time to remember!
NOTR I got an interesting theory question, What if the Nazguls and Witch King were good? What if Celebrimbor made the 9 rings of power and made the nazguls good and serving him instead, and then Celebrimbor tells them to serve Gondor. How or what would it turn for the history of middle earth be if that had happened? Could Gondor defeat Sauron with the nazguls on their side? Would they be able to ride the great Eagles like fellbeasts? And would they assist Frodo to get to Mordor?
I'm not NOTR, but I think I can answer this. Under those circumstances, the 9 would essentially be a continuation of the 3 elven ones, as those are known to have been forged without Sauron's influence from the start. Even so, the One Ring did have the power to control them and their wearers when wearing his. When Sauron put the One Ring on for the first time, the elven lords felt his presence/control immediately, so they took them off and didn't put them back on until Sauron's body was destroyed, because they knew that even they'd succumb in the end. It would have been the same for the 9 rings for mortal men, albeit with a shorter reaction period allowed for the men, because men are notably weaker in mind than the other races, at least when it comes to resisting corruption. And as per my first point, even if Sauron hadn't made them himself, their natures as Rings of Power makes them and their bearers ultimately beholden to him anyway. It might have taken longer, but the corrupting nature of power in itself (independent of any dark intentions), plus the lack of mental fortitude on the part of humans, plus the actual dark intentions of Sauron and the fact that he is the master of all the rings even if he doesn't make them personally, adds up to equal nine ghostly slaves for Sauron in the end.
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Also...
GROND!!
GROND!
GROND!!!
GROND
_GROND!!!_
*GROND*
Fantasy writers: A battering ram!
Tolkien: First, we need to go back and explore thousands of years of lore.
@@mercharris5266 books man books.
@@mercharris5266 It's called a library. And he worked at a university with a huge one. Try it someday?
@@KuK137 chill
@@KuK137 it's called not sounding like a dick, try it someday!
@@KuK137 "Look at me, an intellectual! I read books so im better than you! Huzzah!"
Even now, I can hear the orcs from the LOTR movie shouting: "Grond! Grond! Grond!" ...and I can see Gandalf who looks terrified at the enormous battering ram
I love the LOTR movies, but the Grond scene in the Rankin and Bass animation is my favorite.
ua-cam.com/video/vqehyo9KYCk/v-deo.html
That's why I disliked the scene in the movie. Gandalf is a damn maia and has seen so many worse things in his time. He might look tired, or weary or even worried, but terrified is just too much.
@@Count.Saruman true, but his face can't change the fact that he kinda seems frightened for what was about to come
@@andreiaurariu8931 That's the point. It should not have frightened him. He faced down a Balrog already. He used to have personal audience with Nienna (a full Vala), which would be terrifying, and came out of it with wisdom. The most he should be is worried for the humans that would die that day, but he should not feel fear. It's like that other scene where the Witch-King breaks his staff despite having no such capability.
@@Count.Saruman fair enough, but to be honest, I did like a little bit to see Gandalf scared xd ...keeps the tension in the air and makes you to see what's coming next..I did not read the books, but maybe one day I will do. Overall, LOTR and The Hobbit trilogies are my favourite above other movies
Orc Lieutenant, “But nothing could break it!”
Orc Commander, “Hold my Grond.”
"😈Bring out the wolf's head!" Pure badassary!
@@valentinkambushev4968 I’m definitely glad they added that moment in the extended version
Orc Lieutenant:" okay, I'll hold your Grond. What are you going to use, instead?"
Was there not a meme not long past, where if someone stated that a thing could not be done, the reply was "Grond will breach it..."
@@seregrian5675 the "hold my beer" of middle earth/tolkien fandom
Interesting how Sauron chose a wolf motif for his own vision of Grond, considering that Sauron was the maker of the Werewolves in the First Age, even possessing the ability at one time to transform into a large wolf.
technically Morgoth was the one that came up with Werewolves, but Sauron was the one that actually brought them to fruition, and Werewolves followed their true master (Sauron) on to the end of the 3rd age.
ya untill Huan the Hound of Valinor bitched him so bad.
I thinks the Wolf theme of Grond symbolizes the Great Wolf Carcharoth, who bit the hand of Beren holding a Silmaril. Due to Carcharoth’s evil nature the Silmaril burned him from his insides, driving him mad with pain.
Even more interesting that he got his butt kicked by Huan in wolf form
@@17Watman interesting take indeed
Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth will never not be epic, even if tragic and doomed
Yes, and it actually achieved something, despite appearances. So traumatised and injured was Morgoth (both from Fingolfin's attacks and that of Thorondor) that he never again came out to fight anyone until the host of the Valar came, unroofed his citadel and found him cowering in the bottom-most pits. Imagine if Morgoth had won without any cost to himself? He might have taken to the battlefield more, to the ruin of the Eldar.
it would be really cool to see in live action
I've been thinking.
I've been thinking about the possible scenario of the what if numenor used its full resources to conquer me.
Phase one if forces are not already complete.
Immediate naval blockade of Lindon.
Landing troops in the old site of Lond daer. To make camps between what would've been THARBAD to down to the mouth of the river.
To 'siege' eriador and the elves, middle men and faithful numenorians living in the area.
At same time id construct the equivalents of isengard and helms deep till in their relevant places to prevent flank attacks by greenwood and lorien.
Phase two
Immediately gather my colonies at umbar and to the south and my client states to muster a large force of arms to march north and pacify the area known as gondor to fight the faithful there. Using my fleet to provide naval support and eventually reinforcements from numenor to destroy and capture the faithful ports..
Phase three.
March north and fight lorien.
Essentially to destroy the forest to prevent places to hide.
These are the forces of king amdir.
Any survivors might flee to greenwood, imladris and if they are friendly to the dwarves which I'm not sure about, khazad dum.
Then in a reverse of the last alliance March from north to south, id go to south to north for the passes leading to imladris to attack the flank. While that goes on, my forces south of eriador will after receiving steady reinforcements, would march north across the river.
Split into three prongs.
Phase four
One prong will head to Lindon proper to pin down reinforcements, while supplied by the fleet. The center prong with cleanse the area which would've become arnor to wipe out the elves, and faithful and enslave the middle men.
The right flank would join up with the army that secured, (gondor and Rohan and lorien) and attack the rear of any elven forces and survivors who fled to imladris.
Once Elrond and any force is gone, both armies to join the middle prong to reform and join the left prong holding down Lindon.
Phase four.
Full scale assault on the borders of Lindon to the Grey havens.
Long bloody campaign since escape is impossible thanks to my numenorian fleet.
Then besiege the havens and assault it on one flank and a second flank like a d day style landing with reinforcements from the south and additional from numenor.
Phase five
The Eldar are gone, the faithful are gone.
Spend a few years resupply and securing everything west of the anduin river.
When time is right go full force including a repeat of lorien on a grandeur scale on the kingdom of greenwood and the realms of men to the east.
I don't know if the dwarves can be conquered or if all halls and Dwarven kingdom's can be taken.
Maybe the ones in the blue mountains and iron hills.
Unlikely khazad dum and erebor.
Maybe the gray mountains?
Any thoughts or comment's would be welcomed 😊👍
He failed.
Absolutely. The visuals Tolkien painted of him riding alone into Angband, eyes ablaze, was just remarkable. One of my favorite stories from the Silmarillion. It was truly Epic.
I could see how the original mace Grond could have been reforged into parts of Grond, the battering ram. For example, they could have used the iron to band the wood or to form the wolf's head. Such iron would likely have had tremendous power just from being associated with Morgoth and would have greatly enhanced any enchantments by the Witch-King. That is, if it did survive into the Third Age to be claimed by him.
But how could Sauron get access to Grond remains? The orcs would have to dive in the see with some scuba diving technology to find Grond and get it out from the sunken ruins of Angband.
@@morgothfromangband6082 A lot was done in the wars of the Witch-King that's not mention so it's possible with his sorcery that he corrupted or influenced a sea monster to recover pieces, think about the Watcher of the Water near the entrance of Moria, it seemed to be only after Frodo, as Gandalf said, "There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of the world."
It seems to me more likely that it would be, at least in part, of the Warhammer of Morgoth than it being of entirely new smelt. Tolkien tended to change the names of items as they reforged but not to rename something else, that is entirely different, the same name. Grond The Wolf’s Head and Grond The Warhammer therefore are not entirely different after all. Sauron would have remembered the power imbued within his master’s mace that brought down Fingolfin and spent a tremendous amount of resources to retrieve it. No doubt he had the time and would have known it’s whereabouts within his own realm of influence. I’d like to think that task would have been appointed unto the Witch-King to raise it. Regardless, it doesn’t seem like Tolkien to be that lazy and simply recycle the name Grond and more likely that he definitely knew how to reward the reader with the awesome deep lore within his own epic.
I receny watched Return of the King on 4k with mighty audio system. Man, when orcs shouted GROND, it was so epic and terrifying to see and hear!!
Nerd this is once again great and interesting video!
Looks like I've got my viewing sorted for tonight! :) I don't think I've done ROTK on my new home theater setup yet!
It is told that Grond (battering ram) had been induced with "spells of ruin".
One of my favorite lines ever, and I loved the image of it in the movie
Probably depleted uranium... 😉
Lies
But the spells are from the witch king
@@bretthowell5592 No, I believe JayJay is telling the truth
My fan theory is that Grond II was forged at Mount Doom; Rings of Power & Third Age, IIRC, mentions that Sauron used the fires of Mount Doom in his sorceries and forgings, but the only item we know for certain was forged there was the One Ring. Grond II is a good candidate for another, even if not explicitly stated.
Now I know why the orcs were chanting Grond thank you for summing this up, also your story telling is great, keep up the good work !
3:24 This whole reading has got to be one of my favorite passages in Return of the King. The Arm of Sauron in its full strength and terror! Very well done!
I personally love the idea the the mace and the battering ram are the same. I think it makes Morgoth seem that much more powerful and terrifying and shows just how much more intense the first age was. Even if it’s not as likely of a theory, it’s my favorite 🙂
There's a point where you have to accept that if the text explicitly tells us where it came from, and that it was only named after the original, it's a different weapon. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if the original Grond was even more powerful. I would almost be surprised if it *wasn't,* even. The First Age was something else. Battles that literally shook and reshaped the world itself, and Grond as Morgoth's own weapon would have likely been one of the most powerful artifacts around even there.
Awesome! Iain McKellens protral of Gandalfs out of place fear in the movies may indicate he was one of the few who understood the significance of it . Names had power like Eärendil
Fantastic episode. I absolutely love how metal Tolkien's writing can be and the passages in this video were perfect examples. On an unrelated note, I've been wondering more with each video how large your Tolkien Art folder is.
It's possible the two Gronds are the same, but it's more likely Sauron named his ram Grond in homage to his former master.
More like out of Sauron's own arrogance, who imagined himself by that point being as great or greater than his old master.
I don’t think Sauron or Morgoth would use the Sindarin names for things. It’s likely that neither used the word “grond” to describe their own respective items. Sauron likely used black speech words (in the third age) and Morgoth possibly used a form Quenya or “Melkian” or Valarin.
@@ryancruz1876 Sauron was very skilled in both Elven Languages, as shown by his time in Eregion and the writing on the rings. He had no qualms with appropriating elvish script and names (Annatar). Black Speech was mostly made as a device for his servants to speak, not himself. As for Melkian, it is- like Aulëan and Oromëan- a primitive form of Valarin that Tolkien eventually abandoned as an idea.
Going on from this, Morgoth may not have called his hammer Grond, but Sauron might have been aware that the elves called it that, and renamed his battering ram 'Grond' to evoke the same fear and terror as the name is historically significant.
Always loved the orcs reaction to grond. So wholesome to see them happy that they're going to murder the city's inhabitants
grond.. grond..GROND.. GROND
Delicious manflesh 😊
Well, Grond was a masterpiece of Orcish craftsmanship, metallurgy, engineering and even dark magic.
Its dark steel was of the finest quality, lovingly shaped into the form of a menacing wolf, and on it were spells of ruin.
It was like a beloved mascot of their whole army and military culture. Damn right they were proud of it!
I wish Grond the ram was actually Grond the hammer, too big to be used without Morgoth, so they build a giant cradle to carry it out of Beleriand and take it to Mordor.
That would be epic and show how great of a power Grond is!
That would have been cool as Hell!
There's a 3rd option:
Sauron smelted down and reforged Grond into the battering ram we hear and see in the trilogy.
@Panda Angry What if Sauron ordered it?
@Panda Angry yes but this way they could get some very powerful use out of it. Even Morgoth would probably be ok with that.
I have a feeling Morgoths Grond was destroyed during the war of Wrath and the one Sauron has was named after his former masters weapon.
I think Pengoloth would’ve named Morgoth’s hammer “grond”, while Frodo, who undoubtedly read Pengolath’s accounts of the elder days, possibly named Sauron’s battering ram after Morgoth’s hammer.
Could certain metal pieces of Morgoth’s Grond be recovered and reincorporated into Sauron’s Grond?
@@mechadoggy I guess that could be a possibility too
@@mechadoggy that might be very problematic as most of those lands would be under stone rubble underneath either ice or ice cold sea water.
@@Manco65 There are centuries of time between the War of Wrath and the War of the Ring, plenty enough for Sauron to recover those metal fragments, one way or another
This was a very minor part of the video, but at 6:08 I love the art work depicting Shadowfax standing over and striking fear into the mount of the Witch King
More like Witch King horse shows a respect to Shadowfax. You know Shadowfaxs is King of all horses
about to comment how I have never heard of 'Gond' until I looked at it again with 48 hours no sleep and realized there was an R in there....regardless...Love your videos...as someone who is a relatively 'new' tolkien fan....(decided to read all his possible works when I heard the movies where being made) even though tolkien has been in my family since the very beginning and heard about it all my life...I love hearing in depth analysis and break down of the lore. Your videos have answered a lot of questions I have had. Well done indeed.
Thank you for this!! I’m a newer fan, I started reading Tolkien 5 months ago... so far I’ve finished lotr, the hobbit, the children of Hurin, Beren and luthien, and the silmarillion... now I’m looking for more! But your videos are very helpful.
The Hobbit also comes highly recommended.
High King Fingolfin is one of my absolute favorite characters of the Legendarium, but whenever I think about him and his duel with Morgoth all I can wonder is WHAT IN THE HELL WAS HE THINKING?! Fingolfin may have been one of the best warriors in the history of Middle Earth or even in the history of all of Arda, but Morgoth was essentially a god. Fingolfin had to know that he had no chance of winning that battle, none at all. So why did he do it?!?
I do, however, love the fact that he permanently crippled Morgoth with Ringil, the very same sword that Morgoth himself had helped him forge back in Valinor! I have to laugh at the thought of Morgoth cursing himself for ever teaching Fingolfin how to forge swords while he limped around Angband, agony stabbing through his crippled foot with every step he took. Not only was Morgoth/Melkor completely unable to get Fingolfin to attack Feanor with Ringil, but then Fingolfin turned around and used Ringil on him instead! That is almost poetic.
Morgoth's defeat was like a death by a thousand cuts, and Fingolfin dealt not just one but seven to the Black Foe. In addition, he put fear and respect for his people into Morgoth and humiliated him in front of his lieutenants. This in turn inspired the Elder and Edain to further heroism and keep fighting against overwhelming odds. When one falls, another takes his place, and so on, and so on, until the final cut of Morgoth's defeat. It was suicide for the High King, but he was a great leader who was prepared to inspire all heroes after himself through the sacrifice. Truly epic.
Videos always coming in clutch
Another amazing video. That battering ram was awesome in the movie.
I loved your sponsor and just bought. A map for my dad’s birthday! Thanks for the coupon!
GROND!!! GROND!!! GROND!!!
GROND!!! GROND!!! GROND!!!
GROND!!! GROND!!! GROND!!!
Grond!
Grond! Grond! Grond!
🐺 🔥
🌑🌑
GROND!!
@@sirpepeofhousekek6741 GROND!!
Yeah those orcs yelling GROND GROND GROND!!
Still gives me chills
I wonder where you get ideas for amazing videos like this, Nerd of the Rings. It's good to know more about Grond. Well, it's good to know more about anything of Arda.
Hey, NoTR... I just wanted to tell you that the captions looked spot-on this week. I'm sure it will be greatly appreciated by many. As always, I LOVE your channel. Thanks!!!
PS - I had to order the Washington fleece blanket from Lord of The Maps! It's totally cool! Thanks for the discount code!
I wish they had kept the Witch Kings sorcery in the films, it gives him such a more direct presence in the battle
But I guess I understand what P.J kept him in the air in the films, it would be kind of weird to see the Witch King on a horse and then moments later in the air on a Fell Beast
First thing I saw when I woke up is a new video from Nerd of the Rings. Today's going to be a good day lol
But seriously I know it takes time to research and edit and everything else that you have to do to keep making great videos. Thank you!!
Thanks so much! I really appreciate it.
I applaud your elocution directly from the SIlmarillion, and the quotes from the lore!
I'm pretty nerdy, but before I found this channel, I'd never seen lord of the rings and only read the hobbit. Because I know nothing about it and your voice is beautiful, it's been an amazing channel to fall asleep to lol. But now I've seen the movies because of you and can appreciate your videos to the fullest. Anyways thank you!
There is so much material which can be filmed i hope we have some productions. Keep up the good work and I love your sketches!! Thank you for the effort you put in it.
Grond! Grond! Grond!
GROND! GROND! GROND!
GROND! GROND! GROND!
@@SwagbitoUchiha GROND! GROND! GROND!
Grond!
GROND
Those maps look good.
Would be an interesting sight to have a mace the size of a giant battering ram pulled by trolls hurling towards you by a single figure. Talk about a headache lol. Great video Matt!
Thanks for this video! I love when content is made about Morgoth!
*G R O N D*
I actually just began swinging a 25lbs mace for exercise myself! I think I know what to name it now! Thanks Nerd! 🤓
Bro. You have the greatest LOTR content on the internet. Well done.
Awesome video grond is my favorite weapon for the bad guys
Would like to see a video talking about what if the fellowship didn't break
Oooh, that's interesting. I think there's a line in the books where Gandalf said it would have been him, Gimli, Frodo, Sam, and maybe one other going past Gondor.
@@peterk7428 The line you're looking for is in "The Breaking of the Fellowship" - Aragorn is discussing what to be done at Parth Galen, and he mentions Sam, "who could not bear it otherwise; Gimli; and myself."
@@peterk7428 I'm rereading the fellowship and that question came to my mind randomly
Yeah I’m curious to see what order they would be corrupted in…. and their reasons why!
The homage to his masters weapon was likely to strike fear into the elves and awe into the orcs, foretelling how mighty this war machine was that it’s named after the weapon of choice of essentially the devil.
I really like the idea of sauron keeping his masters war hammer and using it finally when he needs it, one more reminder of what is to come.
I think it’s cool that the battering ram Grond takes 3 blows to breach the gate of Minis Tirith, and it also take 3 strikes from Melkor with his war hammer to defeat Fingolfin. As a wise man once said, “it’s like poetry, sort of, they rhyme.”
We used to have everyone chant Grond when sieging in ESO.
Also, gardening in Minis Tirith is hell, that damn catwalk casts everything in shadow for half the day.
I thought it was made to be a sort of mix between weapon and effigy to Carcharoth, the hound of Angband. However, I honestly think that it's made of a similar ore. Sauron was a master smith.
So I just found the nerdiest LOTR site that I was looking for. Happy that this exists!
Awesome Video as always my friend!
We can always imagine that the forging of Grond in Mordor was a reforging of the old Grond. But it doesn't really fit the canon.
Man I love this channel. 🤌
Grond was literally always my favorite
GROND! GROND! GROND!
Animated or live action version
It’s strength brings no shame
Be it the weapon of Morgoth or the Battering Ram of Sauron’s forces
I will forever chant his name
GROND! GROND!! GROND!!!
GROND
@@ianholdfast GROND
When I first watched the movies I thought Grond wasn't in the book. It just seemed to "out of place" , like the worms in "The Hobbit" movies. Then I read the book and I couldn't believe Grond was actually in it.
"Grond crawled on." - Great stuff!
@@NerdoftheRings
Sounds like the tanks of World War One to me.
If Tolkien ever saw them in action, they might have made a huge impression on him.
Thank you for this video. I had forgotten the terror of Grond's assault on Minas Tirith. It was Tolkien's astonishing painting of a picture of carnage, chaos and terror. The point of darknest night during the assault on Gondor.
Such an amazing channel
GROND
“And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.”
Love you work man! Can I ask you something?
Totally.
Man, I remember when Grond came up in the ROTK novel. It's the perfect name for what it is
Even if its not orginal Grond it would quite fit Morgoth. Its size matches his in description of fight with Fingolfin. A fact that splits fire from point would be fitting aswell because why not? It was breaking ground making fireish bruises, do I remember right?
Bring up the wolfs head!
Grond! Grond! Grond!
GROND!
Grond!
Grond!
all in all, Grond, Morgoth's mace is way more badass ! at least for me ❤️
Lord of Maps is dope. I got one of my state of New Mexico and it is everything I had hoped it would be. Highly recommend.
I got my sister a Lord of Maps Connecticut map... I think I like it just as much as she did.
Another great video! Thank you!
GROND GROND GROND!!! 😂
Grond!
The use of Ground, in the siege of Minas Tirith, is proof that Sauron knew how to "manufacture" some kind of gunpowder to blow up the City gate.
Saruman must also make use of some "bomb to collapse the walls of Helm's deep.
All this is in contrast to Gandalf's "recreational and fun" use of using the same substance to make fireworks.
In early versions in the History of Middle Earth:
"The teaching of Sauron has led to the invention of ships of metal that traverse the seas without sails, but which are hideous in the eyes of those who have not abandoned or forgotten Tol-eressea; to the building of grim fortresses and unlovely towers; and to missiles that pass with a noise like thunder to strike their targets many miles away.” (-History of Middle-earth 5, The Númenórean chapters, Chapter IV)"
It may even be figurative language, but "and to missiles that pass with a noise like thunder to strike their targets many miles away." Rockets? Many miles away?
And:
"The Atalanteans fall, and rebel. They make a temple toThu-Morgoth.They build an armament and assail the shores of the Gods with thunder."
It would be Sauron of Sauron to take Grond after Morgoth's duel and stashed it away and reforged it into a siege ram. But I side with the ram being named after the mace. Yet again, it wouldn't surprise me if it was the mace reforged
Is this even possible? I mean... look at the one ring. It can't be desktop outside mount doom. Wouldn't it be possibly to be similar with grond? It was melkors mace, thr mace of the most powerful of the valar. Proper one of the most 🔋 being's that eher walked on earth. I actual can't image that it can be just melting
I would hazard a guess that, after the battle of Minas Tirith, Grond lay abandoned near the gates of the city. There may have been an intention to destroy it and salvage the metal, but that would have been delayed until after the war was completely over. There were more immediate actions needed to distract Sauron from Frodo's quest. Being formed by sorcery, Grond would have disintegrated along with all of Sauron's workings when the ring was destroyed.
I agree with your assessment and it was not the original Grond. I think the few orcs and balrog barely made it out of Beleriand they would have only had memories of the previous ages. No way they would have had the change to haul off a weapon like that. Especially if Morgoth used in his fight with Tulkas. So my guess either buried with Angand or destroyed by the Valar's army.
This was epic as hell
You have an amazing voice. Watching these videos is like reading chapters upon chapters. 🤘😠🤘
Crossover rules demand that the Black Captain's chanting in a forgotten, evil language before the gates of Minas Tirith be one and the same as the chanting voice in the blood arena of the Sardaukar from Denis Villeneuve's _Dune._
Such awesome lore here, thanks as always! I suspect the Mace of Morgoth/Grond/Hammer of the Underworld probably would have been on the same level of build quality as the One Ring, and is definitely in artifact/legendary status.
Jackson's battle at the Pellenor Fields would be even greater if they filmed scenes with Grond exactly how they were depicted in the book.
"and Debbie" ....I love that😁
Great Video, nice edit and music and great reading!
One thing that realy bugs me tho: Beleriand is way oversized on the map you used at 7:09.
It's bad in itself that this map even exists, but even more so that a channel of your size uses it.
(P.S. Ironicly this happens in a video where "map" is the theme of your sponsor... :P)
I fully get that Morgoth near the end was CONSIDERABLY weaker than Melkor of old, but I sometimes wonder if he was actually aware of how much; why was he afraid? Why did he think a "mere" elf, even a mighty king of the Noldor, could harm his celestial form? Honestly, this is something that I frequently whine about, with Tolkien's works; his beyond mortal beings can be harmed by mundane weapons. And I know, Ringil is hardly "mundane"; if it were D&D, it would be a magical weapon, and bypass DR, too, but it's strange how often Tolkien didn't force his characters to think their way out of conflict. They could still just clobber even the most ascendant angel, and hurt him; his "divine" flesh wasn't hard as dragon scales, nor did he just make kit from one, and cheat. Sauron is similar. I can accept that the Wizards were mortal; enmantled in the bodies of Men, but Sauron should have been more durable. Barring that, maybe the Great craftsman should have forged for himself armor beyond mortal skill, that could protect him, or wear the Ring inside a gauntlet, to keeping out of sight.
I'm whining for no reason, I know, and these Dark Lords were always intended to eventually fall, after wrecking their evil, but it just feels weird that beings who maybe were never intended to be harmed could still get injured, be maimed, and despite their advanced status, be felled by the heroes of Illuvatar's children.
I could be mistaken but I think it is only the physical representations of their beings that can be harmed. Fingolfin killing Morgoth would be impossible in the same way that Wormtongue killing Saruman at the end of the RotK was impossible. His essence still exists, even if it lacks a physical form.
@@HarriboFTW To rhw best of my knowledge, you are correct; only his "avatar" could be injured, but that even his physical self was vulnerable, and also permanently damaged, still gets me. He could have made himself of living steel, or whatever hide dragons bounced weapons off with, or reshaped himself in a way to repair his injury, or conceal it elsewhere, instead of permanently limping.
The Norse gods were also quite physically vulnerable. And Tolkien was heavily inspired by Norse mythology.
Would love to see a video on the new updates regarding the Amazon Rings of Power series. Interestingly, they have started adding descriptions (Character's name and Actor) to the character posters they had released on their Insta page.
I never knew this history! So cool dude, thank you
I think the most interesting thing about naming the second Grond after the first is it shows a collective orc memory of the first age. That's a long time to remember!
GROND! GROND! GROND! GROND!
i would love an episode about the biology of middlearth!
Yooo whats the name of the song thats played, when you narrate Grond breaking the gate
GROND
GROND
"You guys are saying to wrong, it's Grond!!"
I hope there would be a list of notable strongest elves or characters in the nerd of the rings video.
Grond: "What is my purpose?"
Sauron: "You open doors"
Grond: "Oh my god..."
Perhaps you will talk about "ancients texts, poems or songs" in middle earth in some video and try explain them.
As Dutch person the title took me off guard for a moment lol, Grond in Dutch is ground/dirt ground XD
NOTR I got an interesting theory question, What if the Nazguls and Witch King were good? What if Celebrimbor made the 9 rings of power and made the nazguls good and serving him instead, and then Celebrimbor tells them to serve Gondor. How or what would it turn for the history of middle earth be if that had happened? Could Gondor defeat Sauron with the nazguls on their side? Would they be able to ride the great Eagles like fellbeasts? And would they assist Frodo to get to Mordor?
I'm not NOTR, but I think I can answer this. Under those circumstances, the 9 would essentially be a continuation of the 3 elven ones, as those are known to have been forged without Sauron's influence from the start. Even so, the One Ring did have the power to control them and their wearers when wearing his. When Sauron put the One Ring on for the first time, the elven lords felt his presence/control immediately, so they took them off and didn't put them back on until Sauron's body was destroyed, because they knew that even they'd succumb in the end.
It would have been the same for the 9 rings for mortal men, albeit with a shorter reaction period allowed for the men, because men are notably weaker in mind than the other races, at least when it comes to resisting corruption. And as per my first point, even if Sauron hadn't made them himself, their natures as Rings of Power makes them and their bearers ultimately beholden to him anyway. It might have taken longer, but the corrupting nature of power in itself (independent of any dark intentions), plus the lack of mental fortitude on the part of humans, plus the actual dark intentions of Sauron and the fact that he is the master of all the rings even if he doesn't make them personally, adds up to equal nine ghostly slaves for Sauron in the end.
"What about Grond?"
"What about Grond?"
"Gosh! Finally!"
Tolkien saw fit to pull out all the rhetorical stops on this scene. Positively King James Bible vibes here.
I love movie version of Grond (battering ram), it looks so badass
Not gonna lie. The name “Grond” sounds like a Vtuber chat pet. I’ve been absorbing all your videos recently, thank you!
"Bring up the wolf's head."
It was the same mace... I love Tolkien's stories!!!