Miller makes a similar device for fall protection, albeit for much larger single twisted strand ropes. One should practice how to ascend rope without the use of prussics (ie foot loop) because you might stop just out of reach of any handholds or footholds and you can't descend on these devices. That's what happened to me when I took a protected fall working on a roof when the roof bracket gave way. The big problem I encountered was due to the fact that OSHA-mandated industrial fall protection is a full body harness with a D-ring connection on the back to minimize back injury when the fall is arrested. But it leaves you hanging as helpless as a kitten being picked up by the scruff of its neck in its mother's mouth. It takes extraordinary strength and agility to reach that rope in such a configuration and ascend enough to take the load off of the shunt device so you can descend with a foot loop. It's orders of magnitude easier when the rope is in front of you, but still not something you'll enjoy learning for the first time after a slip is arrested in a tough spot to climb out of.
Yes absolutely. This I one of the reasons I have changed my system to use an ascender on one side of a fixed rope and a grigri on the other. The grigri must manually have slack taken in, but allows you to lower WAY more easily. Glad you had that safety equipment on your roof fall. Best wishes!
Thanks for writing! I haven't been able to go climbing in quite a while - with a move and career change. I'm hoping this spring I'll be able to carve out some weekends to make it back out to the crag. Best wishes for you as well on your journey!
Ive been using a shunt and a grigri. The drag is an issue but only on the lower sections until the rope weight is enough to feed. Also if your hands are unavailable, a free foot with a quick wrap around the rope, then leg extension will help it feed it as well. one issue im running into is localized rope chafing. since the rope is not moving, any wear points on rocks will not be distributed along the length of the rope. As for shut failure modes, besides grabbing the device prior to falling, I would like to hear what they are. Ive heard falling upside down can do it if the trailing rope gets looped over the release. As @jmy106 points out, the biggest issue is releasing it once your weight is on it. I make a few wraps around my foot and stand on it (or prusik) to load the alternate device, release the shunt and then descend with the grigri.
Street Wise Combatives, thank you. I hope to put some more videos together this spring. The weather has been pretty bad this year so far and I haven't been able to get out to Jackson Falls. Hopefully soon!!!
The company who makes the gear shed using(petzl) strongly advised against using a shunt for soloing. A shunt is not designed to hold the force of a fall, can cut your rope, and will jam up on overhangs. Check out their websites section of tr soloing if you want to learn how to do it properly.
I can see how that setup with a static rope works, but i’m wondering how you get over a section where theres not many/ any holds? You could traverse being belayed but this setup would limit you to the ropes line right?
This system requires a vertical or slightly slabby wall. And you would need to be able to bring your body up the wall by the wall. A different system or modification would be needed to ascend past a "no holds" area. I have used a prussik with a sling for my foot in this type of situation. It isn't easy to transition between ascending and belaying in this type of setup.
People tend to worry a lot about almost any device you use for solo climbing. Almost no devices are specified for that use and every video has mantra "not specified for that" repeated multiple times. I must agree that with impovising can increase risks, especially it it is done with too little knowledge. I use a setup with similar base. One non-toothed device like SOB or microcender with a toothed backup. SOB/microcender/shunt and similar deviced do not lock when you fall head first. I really want something that does in addition to those. I tend to avoid grabs that can be locked open like micro traxion. I'd hate to see it lock open due to rope or terrain drag. No matter if Petzl recommends it or not. Anything that can lock open is not safe enough for me. I've had one device lock open once, cannot remember which exact device it was though. For top roping there are no huge fall factors and I don't fear ropes tearing apart with toothed devices. However, when you go for bottom roping or expect possible large falls it gets tricky. Toothed devices can tear the rope and many non-toothed ones don't grab an upside down fall. I'm yet to make an opinion on my optinum for that situation, probably something like grigri with backup knots is a safe bet (with all the hassle of taking out backup knots when advancing and feeding problems unless you modify it and so on).
@aRacHa YaH I find it improbable that ascension would slip. However, I can see the rope getting out of the device if there is no carabiner in the top hole. Some kind of tangling could perhaps happen even with the top carabiner but unprobably. However, being a toothed device is has it's problems. It rips the rope mantle at about 4kN or so. Not that good for falling, unless top-roping with fall factor of about 0 and no slack in line. That's quite different than Shunt which will not even try to lock when upside down. Single rope can also slip out of shunt totally. I find it unsafe even feet down unless it has two ropes in it. (single sided load bends the device and rope slips totally out of it). It depends a lot about how you climb. When top roping, I see no problems with toothed devices with a rope that has no large slack (even with static ropes!), especially if you have a backup rope with another device. For lead climbing solo, I'd not use toothed devices unless they are only a backup to a non-toothed device. Some like prussik backups. I hate them, because they need to be tended well to grab. If a prussik gets undressed when rubbing to somewhere while climbing it may not catch. Finally, everyone needs his/her own research and risk assesment, based on what kind of climbing it is and how much risk seems tolerable. Hope this helps. If you want good safety, some videos about professional industrial climbing can help. They train often to always have a backup and so on. Not always easy like in tree climbing.
Have you considered just using a dogbone for your backup extender? then you can clip your chest harness directly into the Carabiner for the SOB on both sides of it to keep it oriented properly and from sideloading.
Thanks, good idea. I did think about it, but couldn't figure out how to keep it from cross loading and becoming really piled up with metal carabiners. Could you send a picture of the system you're talking about?
It would've been good to see you take a few falls on this system to demonstrate, afterall that's what this setup is designed to arrest. Even though your TR falls would be small and insignificant, I'm not convinced that your chest harness won't take up some of the load in a fall, and that would not be good!
Sorry, for some reason youtube doesn't always notify me of comments. You cant really actually "fall" in the same sense that you think of it with regular climbing. Because you are constantly moving the ascenders up and the way ropes are, there is almost never slack in the system. I'm not super happy with this chest harness system, I'm sure there are better ones. It doesn't take any weight though. And I personally don't want a sling around my neck, which is what some people do. So this or a variation on it is what I do. Thanks for commenting, and sorry again for the late reply.
Eeeh... One question, I use the shunt on two ropes with the rope just goint through the ancor in the top. If you use the same setup, your backup device is kind of useless, because your ropes are not fixed. If you tie your rope, than it's kind of useless to use two ropes in the shunt... I hope you're safe, have a good climb! ;)
I just use a shunt my itself and for long ropes I use a single rope. I can't see why that won't hold. The main issue I have is trying to get my weight off it when I'm hanging. if you climb with loads of kit it makes the whole thing feel pointless as you can't do hard routes...
Can you please make a video that shows how to do that chest harness knot? How long is that sling? If I have two single rope devices, do you think I should put one device per rope? Finally, how do you weight the double strands? Do you weight them together or separately? Thanks for the video, your demonstrations are nice and to the point.
Hi, thanks for commenting and good questions. First of all, here is the video of the chest harness. ua-cam.com/video/4zf0WsO9qu0/v-deo.html Secondly about single rope devices, I've done it both ways but prefer to put one device on each side of the rope. At the bottom, I tie a figure 8 on a bite and attach all my gear to it. I takes a little playing with to get right, because if the knot is too high it will make the rope too tight. If it is too low the rope will be too loose. Thanks again!! Hope this helps. Have fun and stay safe!!
Lisa Luedtke so the height of the counter weight actually affects the amount of pull it gives? Should the counter weight be as close to the ground as possible, but not touching the ground?
Hi Lisa, Love your videos!!! Question: For this method since the SOB only holds one rope, would there need to be a knot like a figure 8 on bite in the anchor so that the rope is fixed? Thanks
Great question. Yes, that is correct. The rope is fixed in the center. I often fix the one side at the bottom and leave the other side loose for rappelling or the grigri. Some of my other videos describe this system.
I'm concerned about the backup only being attached to one rope. It seems like this could cause the whole system to fail. If it was weighted before your shunt it could pull the rope right through your shunt and anchor.
I understand your concern. That would be true if the anchor was set up like a traditional top rope (where the rope can freely slide through the anchor). The set up I'm using here is fixed, however, so the rope can't pull through. There's a figure eight tied in the middle and fixed to the anchor. Does that make sense? Essentially the one rope becomes two independent sides. Thanks for writing! :)
the real problem here is that if that top device fails (unlikely but you know, redundancy) then it will weight the top of the shunt and hold it open. would be safer to have the shunt on top and this other one below, seeing as the shunt cant hold open the other device if the shunt fails. the primary device really needs to be the one on top, as otherwise you would only be attached to the back up by the chest harness.
Lisa, can you help me understand your top rope anchor set up? Are you tying the two figure eights on a bight to the rope ends and then dropping the middle, or tying the two figure eight bights to the middle and dropping the rope ends to the bottom of the climb? I've never seen this done before.
Stephen Sinksen, I tied two figure eights in the middle of the rope and dropped the ends. I did that so that both sides of the rope are independently secured. I think this is extra redundancy, since I can't really see how the knot could break or get sawed through, especially here in this senario. But, someone suggested it in a previous video comment, and I gave it a try in this video. It's also nice peace of mind knowing the anchor is really redundant and secure.
Hi Lisa. I just went out to try this and it worked great. Question tho: how do you rap down after since the rope is weighted? I can't tell in the video but do you have only one strand weighted?
Hi Phil, that's a great point. If both ropes are weighted, it is pretty much impossible to rappel. If it's just a heavy backpack you could pick up the backpack to feed it through the atc, but that's exhausting and slow. Sometimes, I'll "leapfrog" down (where I don't take off the ascndered and alternate disengaging and sliding down the devices.) Somtimes I only weight one rope and leave the other one free (then I'll switch devices at the top and come down with the atc). Lately I've been using the grigri and camp ascender to ascend and come down (grigri on the loose side and camp ascender on fixed side). That's been my favorite system so far. Hope that's helpful!
Stephen Sinksen, the one I have is an imitation of the CAMP ascender. I would go with that instead of the imitation. You can buy it on Amazon, backcountry, moosejaw, etc. Here's the link to Amazon: www.amazon.com/Camp-USA-Lift-Ascender/dp/B002IALCWK
Hi there, I see several security problems in this video. The Shunt is NOT recommended for self-belaying, it can fail in several scenarios, the Shunt is primary a backup device to replace the Prusik. It is not recommended to have a backup device on the same rope over the Shunt, it can slide down and block the Shunt so cause a failure. Stay safe.
Hi, thanks for commenting! I post this and my other videos to share what I'm doing and to gain advice from others. When I first was looking into this kind of climbing it was very hard to find any information. As far as I know there are NO devices made specifically to tr solo. The other kind of ascender must be moved manually with your hand. I climb this way because I want the freedom to climb without having to stop and move my device. If you have a favorite ascender device that can slide with you, please share. :)
Hi again, the non plus ultra device for climbing on a top rope is and stay the classic jumar aka Petzl Ascension with backup a second one on a second rope. It is heavy, big and bulky, but is on the market for like 50 years now and there is a lot of experience with it, from the climbing garden to the Mount Everest. The idea to make it smaller and lighter lead to some products like Petzl Micro Traxion, the idea behind stay the same. This is actualy the ascender, that is recommended an many places for top rope solo climbing, but it have to be backup-ed always on a second rope. You can find more information here: www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Setting-up-a-self-belay-system-on-two-ropes-with-two-ascenders
thanks! Those are both great devices. I've never used the ascension but I don't think it can be used hands-free. I considered the micro-traxion. I read some reviews that the teeth on it can damage the rope after repeated use. That's primarily why I went with flat camming devices. I know it's not the same as using 2 ropes but I do have the anchor using two figure eights on a bite. Also it's on a sport climb, so it's not as dangerous for something cutting the rope as trad.
The rope damage is always a main factor but u have to distinguish two cases. It can be said that break devices always damage the rope if you go over the limit. There are two kind of devices - such with micro-teeth like the ascension or micro traxion and such with jamming the rope. The first sort of devices claim more the sheath, the second will cut the rope through when u overload your system and is still better to damage only the sheath instead to fall. The best combination is also to use one device with teeths like the traxion and one with jamming on the other rope string like your China-copy of the Camp Lift. As main rules can be said: -never climb over the ascender to avoid dynamic falls -do not use long ropes to bind your ascender, try to keep it near to you, one carabiner is enough -use rope with bigger sheath quota and diameter over 10,5 mm -use always a true backup system on a second string of the rope -replace your rope in short intervals
Since the dawn of mountaineering the prusik has been used for self belaying. Use the shunt like a prusik in conjunction with other devices and you're fine.
Rudy Chavira, if you are referring to the chest harness, here is the video I put together explaining it. Best wishes. ua-cam.com/video/4zf0WsO9qu0/v-deo.html
Sorry that is a terrible system you would be safer just having the shunt held up and use a mailion not a screw gate. If you feel you need to back up the shun it needs to be on a seperatet rope otherwise it is pointless
I run laps on a local 30 meter high drip all winter long simply using one long static line- tied off top and bottom - and then a simple prusik knot [made from spectra cord ] around the rope and attached to my harness with a locker- ---- people need to learn how to tie knots - not just a simple figure eight - could have saved herself a bunch of money - and to be honest, I would trust a prusik before I would trust some of those soloist devices which are known not to catch inverted falls - also a shunt should never be used for that purpose! here is a new product that works well - I do not know this guy or am I getting anything for this plug- just a great idea for solo climbers ua-cam.com/video/Z-xjqI1WOY8/v-deo.html
badnews, thanks for sharing. I've heard a lot of positive feedback about the prusik. I've personally never done mountaineering or ice climbing and so haven't been around peers who could teach me that. It's worth learning though, like you said. I appreciate the feedback! Best wishes.
A prusik is NOT satisfactory to catch a fall! Read the story posted by bearbreeder towards the bottom of the page: www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/111893354/prusik-backup-for-toprope-solo A two ascender system is a bomb-proof setup, and ascenders will catch you if you fall inverted (unless you somehow manage to fall up). If you are trusting your life to a one or two prusiks I strongly advise you to switch to a more reliable system before your next top rope solo!
@@col8179 The rope would need to be fixed to the anchor in order for the backup to work. If the rope is just fed through the anchor or wrapped around a tree like it would be in a counterbalanced rappel, then you could have problems. If the Shunt were to somehow fail, then you'd only be weighting one of the two strands of rope and the system would fail.
Very helpful, I was looking something for my safety line when climbing the mast on my boat. Many thanks.
Thank you so much , I’ve been looking for instruction on this exact set up. You don’t know how happy your very informative video made me. Thank you
I'm glad. :) Be safe and be sure to test your system.
Wow , thank you so much again and again. It’s so exciting to find your videos. Perfect, concise, extremely informative and again you keep me alive.
No problem, I'm glad you're enjoying my videos. Keep yourself safe, though... ;)
Excellent... I use the Shunt Top Roping too. and I also have two of those SOB ascenders.. !
Miller makes a similar device for fall protection, albeit for much larger single twisted strand ropes. One should practice how to ascend rope without the use of prussics (ie foot loop) because you might stop just out of reach of any handholds or footholds and you can't descend on these devices. That's what happened to me when I took a protected fall working on a roof when the roof bracket gave way. The big problem I encountered was due to the fact that OSHA-mandated industrial fall protection is a full body harness with a D-ring connection on the back to minimize back injury when the fall is arrested. But it leaves you hanging as helpless as a kitten being picked up by the scruff of its neck in its mother's mouth. It takes extraordinary strength and agility to reach that rope in such a configuration and ascend enough to take the load off of the shunt device so you can descend with a foot loop. It's orders of magnitude easier when the rope is in front of you, but still not something you'll enjoy learning for the first time after a slip is arrested in a tough spot to climb out of.
Yes absolutely. This I one of the reasons I have changed my system to use an ascender on one side of a fixed rope and a grigri on the other. The grigri must manually have slack taken in, but allows you to lower WAY more easily.
Glad you had that safety equipment on your roof fall. Best wishes!
Simple and beautiful video, the setup is super logical and effective, congrats sister/ i hope you're still climbing
Thanks for writing! I haven't been able to go climbing in quite a while - with a move and career change. I'm hoping this spring I'll be able to carve out some weekends to make it back out to the crag. Best wishes for you as well on your journey!
@@lisahisownfamily thank you/ I'm glad for u come back, i think is a passion, im sure you're happy doing it/ hug's 🐈
Ive been using a shunt and a grigri. The drag is an issue but only on the lower sections until the rope weight is enough to feed. Also if your hands are unavailable, a free foot with a quick wrap around the rope, then leg extension will help it feed it as well. one issue im running into is localized rope chafing. since the rope is not moving, any wear points on rocks will not be distributed along the length of the rope.
As for shut failure modes, besides grabbing the device prior to falling, I would like to hear what they are. Ive heard falling upside down can do it if the trailing rope gets looped over the release. As @jmy106 points out, the biggest issue is releasing it once your weight is on it. I make a few wraps around my foot and stand on it (or prusik) to load the alternate device, release the shunt and then descend with the grigri.
Awesome set up... Great video...I'm going to give this method a try this summer in Rummy NH. Ps I enjoy all your videos... keep them coming...
Street Wise Combatives, thank you. I hope to put some more videos together this spring. The weather has been pretty bad this year so far and I haven't been able to get out to Jackson Falls. Hopefully soon!!!
The company who makes the gear shed using(petzl) strongly advised against using a shunt for soloing. A shunt is not designed to hold the force of a fall, can cut your rope, and will jam up on overhangs. Check out their websites section of tr soloing if you want to learn how to do it properly.
Perfekt video, I like very much thanks Lisa !
I can see how that setup with a static rope works, but i’m wondering how you get over a section where theres not many/ any holds? You could traverse being belayed but this setup would limit you to the ropes line right?
This system requires a vertical or slightly slabby wall. And you would need to be able to bring your body up the wall by the wall. A different system or modification would be needed to ascend past a "no holds" area. I have used a prussik with a sling for my foot in this type of situation. It isn't easy to transition between ascending and belaying in this type of setup.
People tend to worry a lot about almost any device you use for solo climbing. Almost no devices are specified for that use and every video has mantra "not specified for that" repeated multiple times. I must agree that with impovising can increase risks, especially it it is done with too little knowledge.
I use a setup with similar base. One non-toothed device like SOB or microcender with a toothed backup. SOB/microcender/shunt and similar deviced do not lock when you fall head first. I really want something that does in addition to those.
I tend to avoid grabs that can be locked open like micro traxion. I'd hate to see it lock open due to rope or terrain drag. No matter if Petzl recommends it or not. Anything that can lock open is not safe enough for me. I've had one device lock open once, cannot remember which exact device it was though.
For top roping there are no huge fall factors and I don't fear ropes tearing apart with toothed devices. However, when you go for bottom roping or expect possible large falls it gets tricky. Toothed devices can tear the rope and many non-toothed ones don't grab an upside down fall. I'm yet to make an opinion on my optinum for that situation, probably something like grigri with backup knots is a safe bet (with all the hassle of taking out backup knots when advancing and feeding problems unless you modify it and so on).
Thank you for posting!
@aRacHa YaH I find it improbable that ascension would slip. However, I can see the rope getting out of the device if there is no carabiner in the top hole. Some kind of tangling could perhaps happen even with the top carabiner but unprobably. However, being a toothed device is has it's problems. It rips the rope mantle at about 4kN or so. Not that good for falling, unless top-roping with fall factor of about 0 and no slack in line.
That's quite different than Shunt which will not even try to lock when upside down. Single rope can also slip out of shunt totally. I find it unsafe even feet down unless it has two ropes in it. (single sided load bends the device and rope slips totally out of it).
It depends a lot about how you climb. When top roping, I see no problems with toothed devices with a rope that has no large slack (even with static ropes!), especially if you have a backup rope with another device. For lead climbing solo, I'd not use toothed devices unless they are only a backup to a non-toothed device.
Some like prussik backups. I hate them, because they need to be tended well to grab. If a prussik gets undressed when rubbing to somewhere while climbing it may not catch.
Finally, everyone needs his/her own research and risk assesment, based on what kind of climbing it is and how much risk seems tolerable. Hope this helps.
If you want good safety, some videos about professional industrial climbing can help. They train often to always have a backup and so on. Not always easy like in tree climbing.
@aRacHa YaH No lube, it attracts dirt and moisture in the winter.
Have you considered just using a dogbone for your backup extender? then you can clip your chest harness directly into the Carabiner for the SOB on both sides of it to keep it oriented properly and from sideloading.
Thanks, good idea. I did think about it, but couldn't figure out how to keep it from cross loading and becoming really piled up with metal carabiners. Could you send a picture of the system you're talking about?
Lisa Luedtke if you'd like you can check out my CAMP lift setup in my videos. I'm currently driving so I can't get to my gear at the moment.
Thanks! You have a lot of videos! Could you point me towards the one you're referring to?
drive.google.com/file/d/0B7XQUTJhj5tKbHJHWTZVRVM4V1E/view?usp=drivesdk
okay, I see what you mean. I'll try something like that out. That looks helpful!
It would've been good to see you take a few falls on this system to demonstrate, afterall that's what this setup is designed to arrest.
Even though your TR falls would be small and insignificant, I'm not convinced that your chest harness won't take up some of the load in a fall, and that would not be good!
Sorry, for some reason youtube doesn't always notify me of comments. You cant really actually "fall" in the same sense that you think of it with regular climbing. Because you are constantly moving the ascenders up and the way ropes are, there is almost never slack in the system. I'm not super happy with this chest harness system, I'm sure there are better ones. It doesn't take any weight though. And I personally don't want a sling around my neck, which is what some people do. So this or a variation on it is what I do. Thanks for commenting, and sorry again for the late reply.
very effective and helpfull video, thanks!
Eeeh... One question, I use the shunt on two ropes with the rope just goint through the ancor in the top. If you use the same setup, your backup device is kind of useless, because your ropes are not fixed. If you tie your rope, than it's kind of useless to use two ropes in the shunt... I hope you're safe, have a good climb! ;)
I just use a shunt my itself and for long ropes I use a single rope. I can't see why that won't hold. The main issue I have is trying to get my weight off it when I'm hanging. if you climb with loads of kit it makes the whole thing feel pointless as you can't do hard routes...
There was a LOT of drag with this system.
I just feel like sometimes in climbing you need to be a bit risky to get the job done! I like your video btw. I think it's bomber safe
Thanks very much!! :)
Ya same here i use shunt alone at times on stuff im comfortable with. Its never let me down ha
Can you please make a video that shows how to do that chest harness knot? How long is that sling?
If I have two single rope devices, do you think I should put one device per rope?
Finally, how do you weight the double strands? Do you weight them together or separately?
Thanks for the video, your demonstrations are nice and to the point.
Hi, thanks for commenting and good questions. First of all, here is the video of the chest harness. ua-cam.com/video/4zf0WsO9qu0/v-deo.html
Secondly about single rope devices, I've done it both ways but prefer to put one device on each side of the rope. At the bottom, I tie a figure 8 on a bite and attach all my gear to it. I takes a little playing with to get right, because if the knot is too high it will make the rope too tight. If it is too low the rope will be too loose. Thanks again!! Hope this helps. Have fun and stay safe!!
Lisa Luedtke so the height of the counter weight actually affects the amount of pull it gives?
Should the counter weight be as close to the ground as possible, but not touching the ground?
I loved everything about your videos until now. Your rope looks similar to a Copperhead ;)
thanks, lol
Hi Lisa,
Love your videos!!!
Question: For this method since the SOB only holds one rope, would there need to be a knot like a figure 8 on bite in the anchor so that the rope is fixed?
Thanks
Great question. Yes, that is correct. The rope is fixed in the center. I often fix the one side at the bottom and leave the other side loose for rappelling or the grigri. Some of my other videos describe this system.
I'm concerned about the backup only being attached to one rope. It seems like this could cause the whole system to fail. If it was weighted before your shunt it could pull the rope right through your shunt and anchor.
I understand your concern. That would be true if the anchor was set up like a traditional top rope (where the rope can freely slide through the anchor). The set up I'm using here is fixed, however, so the rope can't pull through. There's a figure eight tied in the middle and fixed to the anchor. Does that make sense? Essentially the one rope becomes two independent sides.
Thanks for writing! :)
@@lisahisownfamily that totally makes sense. Thanks for sharing.
the real problem here is that if that top device fails (unlikely but you know, redundancy) then it will weight the top of the shunt and hold it open. would be safer to have the shunt on top and this other one below, seeing as the shunt cant hold open the other device if the shunt fails. the primary device really needs to be the one on top, as otherwise you would only be attached to the back up by the chest harness.
@@asdeuchars1 Aggreed.. Shunt above..
Lisa, can you help me understand your top rope anchor set up?
Are you tying the two figure eights on a bight to the rope ends and then dropping the middle, or tying the two figure eight bights to the middle and dropping the rope ends to the bottom of the climb?
I've never seen this done before.
Stephen Sinksen, I tied two figure eights in the middle of the rope and dropped the ends. I did that so that both sides of the rope are independently secured. I think this is extra redundancy, since I can't really see how the knot could break or get sawed through, especially here in this senario. But, someone suggested it in a previous video comment, and I gave it a try in this video. It's also nice peace of mind knowing the anchor is really redundant and secure.
Lisa Luedtke,
Thanks again for your very helpful response. Can't wait to try it out.
Stephen Sinksen, sure thing!!
Stephen Sinksen, sure thing. Have fun and be safe!
@@lisahisownfamily You could also do that with a Stone Knot.
Hi Lisa. I just went out to try this and it worked great. Question tho: how do you rap down after since the rope is weighted? I can't tell in the video but do you have only one strand weighted?
Hi Phil, that's a great point. If both ropes are weighted, it is pretty much impossible to rappel. If it's just a heavy backpack you could pick up the backpack to feed it through the atc, but that's exhausting and slow. Sometimes, I'll "leapfrog" down (where I don't take off the ascndered and alternate disengaging and sliding down the devices.) Somtimes I only weight one rope and leave the other one free (then I'll switch devices at the top and come down with the atc). Lately I've been using the grigri and camp ascender to ascend and come down (grigri on the loose side and camp ascender on fixed side). That's been my favorite system so far. Hope that's helpful!
excellent. thank you! but then I guess you'll have to pull in slack as your climb with the grigri on the loose side?
That was good info
Who makes the SOB backup device you use and where can I buy one?
Stephen Sinksen, the one I have is an imitation of the CAMP ascender. I would go with that instead of the imitation. You can buy it on Amazon, backcountry, moosejaw, etc. Here's the link to Amazon: www.amazon.com/Camp-USA-Lift-Ascender/dp/B002IALCWK
Hi there,
I see several security problems in this video. The Shunt is NOT recommended for self-belaying, it can fail in several scenarios, the Shunt is primary a backup device to replace the Prusik. It is not recommended to have a backup device on the same rope over the Shunt, it can slide down and block the Shunt so cause a failure. Stay safe.
Hi, thanks for commenting! I post this and my other videos to share what I'm doing and to gain advice from others. When I first was looking into this kind of climbing it was very hard to find any information. As far as I know there are NO devices made specifically to tr solo. The other kind of ascender must be moved manually with your hand. I climb this way because I want the freedom to climb without having to stop and move my device. If you have a favorite ascender device that can slide with you, please share. :)
Hi again, the non plus ultra device for climbing on a top rope is and stay the classic jumar aka Petzl Ascension with backup a second one on a second rope. It is heavy, big and bulky, but is on the market for like 50 years now and there is a lot of experience with it, from the climbing garden to the Mount Everest. The idea to make it smaller and lighter lead to some products like Petzl Micro Traxion, the idea behind stay the same. This is actualy the ascender, that is recommended an many places for top rope solo climbing, but it have to be backup-ed always on a second rope. You can find more information here: www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Setting-up-a-self-belay-system-on-two-ropes-with-two-ascenders
thanks! Those are both great devices. I've never used the ascension but I don't think it can be used hands-free. I considered the micro-traxion. I read some reviews that the teeth on it can damage the rope after repeated use. That's primarily why I went with flat camming devices. I know it's not the same as using 2 ropes but I do have the anchor using two figure eights on a bite. Also it's on a sport climb, so it's not as dangerous for something cutting the rope as trad.
The rope damage is always a main factor but u have to distinguish two cases. It can be said that break devices always damage the rope if you go over the limit. There are two kind of devices - such with micro-teeth like the ascension or micro traxion and such with jamming the rope. The first sort of devices claim more the sheath, the second will cut the rope through when u overload your system and is still better to damage only the sheath instead to fall. The best combination is also to use one device with teeths like the traxion and one with jamming on the other rope string like your China-copy of the Camp Lift.
As main rules can be said:
-never climb over the ascender to avoid dynamic falls
-do not use long ropes to bind your ascender, try to keep it near to you, one carabiner is enough
-use rope with bigger sheath quota and diameter over 10,5 mm
-use always a true backup system on a second string of the rope
-replace your rope in short intervals
Since the dawn of mountaineering the prusik has been used for self belaying. Use the shunt like a prusik in conjunction with other devices and you're fine.
I'd like to see how you tied harness ?.
Rudy Chavira, if you are referring to the chest harness, here is the video I put together explaining it. Best wishes. ua-cam.com/video/4zf0WsO9qu0/v-deo.html
Lisa Luedtke thanks Lisa got it.
No problem!
That was good info awesome
Love it
Thanks!
The shunt has a known failure mode possible when using for self belay. To whoever reads this PLEASE DO NOT USE THE SHUNT FOR TOPROPE SOLO!
Sorry that is a terrible system you would be safer just having the shunt held up and use a mailion not a screw gate. If you feel you need to back up the shun it needs to be on a seperatet rope otherwise it is pointless
I run laps on a local 30 meter high drip all winter long simply using one long static line- tied off top and bottom - and then a simple prusik knot [made from spectra cord ] around the rope and attached to my harness with a locker- ---- people need to learn how to tie knots - not just a simple figure eight - could have saved herself a bunch of money - and to be honest, I would trust a prusik before I would trust some of those soloist devices which are known not to catch inverted falls - also a shunt should never be used for that purpose! here is a new product that works well - I do not know this guy or am I getting anything for this plug- just a great idea for solo climbers ua-cam.com/video/Z-xjqI1WOY8/v-deo.html
badnews, thanks for sharing. I've heard a lot of positive feedback about the prusik. I've personally never done mountaineering or ice climbing and so haven't been around peers who could teach me that. It's worth learning though, like you said. I appreciate the feedback! Best wishes.
A prusik is NOT satisfactory to catch a fall! Read the story posted by bearbreeder towards the bottom of the page: www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/111893354/prusik-backup-for-toprope-solo
A two ascender system is a bomb-proof setup, and ascenders will catch you if you fall inverted (unless you somehow manage to fall up). If you are trusting your life to a one or two prusiks I strongly advise you to switch to a more reliable system before your next top rope solo!
Is not free solo climbing!
This is an extremely dangerous system. if the primary device fails, it will cause the secondary device to fail. Look elsewhere for TR solo advice.
Lane Eardink please elaborate
@@col8179 The rope would need to be fixed to the anchor in order for the backup to work. If the rope is just fed through the anchor or wrapped around a tree like it would be in a counterbalanced rappel, then you could have problems. If the Shunt were to somehow fail, then you'd only be weighting one of the two strands of rope and the system would fail.
@@briancarlcain14 The author stated further up-thread that each rope is independently tied off at the anchor with a Fig8. So it's safe IMO.
Podobnie się wspinam jak Ty, też na petzl shunt ;)