Valve not immediately responding as fast as they did when SaveTF2 happened goes to show they know they can't pull the same PR speak twice. They can't go "We hear you!" again without doing anything because it won't work this time. If they had to say something, it'd have to coincide either with an update itself, a roadmap, or a hard date.
A friend once told me he doesn't exist.. and then said that those who doom post have no idea what the message really is. Tell them the message and tell them about what the bots are currently doing.
Not sure that quote really applies... Starship Troopers is a satire on how authoritarian regimes dehumanize a population to justify hyper-military action. #FixTF2 is simply a request that Valve to do the bare minimum and address the ongoing issues with the game, with no guarantee that they actually will (though that’s not a reason to avoid trying).
I mean, I prefer them working on new games than continually updating a 17 year old game, idk. I mean a bot cleanse would be nice, but for all intents and purposes the game is finished, and that's fine
Fun fact, fighting fire with fire is an actual firefighting technique called a counter fire. the idea is that you make a controlled burn that burns the potential fuel of a forest fire, stopping the large fire in its tracks. Now this version of the explanation makes no sense for bots vs bots, but that's where the saying comes from.
I've had a few comments about this today, and I'm genuinely happy that people are willing to explain - you learn something new every day! I appreciate it.
May I recommend bots that exist to counter-snipe other bots, leave players alone, and boot-kick only their own kind? Dunno how effective that would be in-game, but it's the closest I can imagine. Still, it's that or using bots to track and cut off/mass report other bots.
@@JacksonJinn actual bots do use something that basically a sensor that detects fellow bot hosters make a bot that reads that sensor and just counter snipes
Never back down! Never give up! Do not rest until we get some actual concrete results, not when we get a empty "we hear you" damage control promise, not when we get a statement from valve. Only when we have our demands met! Remember what you are fighting for!
@damsen978 it doesn't necessarily have to be anything more than that, just raising awareness and posting about in social media will put some pressure to valve to at least acknowledge it and do something about it, or if they don't people will potentially start having second thoughts about valve supporting any of their newer games when those get older if they are willing to let tf2 rot with the bot infestation for 6 years at this point. if the rumours of valve not bothering to do any regular housekeeping work by keeping hackers and bots at bay because they find it "tedious treadmill work" then im not holding out for any hope of longevity from deadlock when the launch momentum dies down, if it gets any by the looks of things.
They should really just say the truth; they can't fix this. This is NOT a problem of Valve "neglecting" the game (content updates are slowing down because anything they push out immeditely receives negative feedback), rather VAC being straight up bypassable. The petition shouldn't be about "fixing TF2" as that's a broad term, rather it should be about adding the early-stage-of-development vacnet into the game (however, not only is this unlikely, it may not work as well as expected due to vacnet only being used in a source 2 game, and running it on a different engine might cause issues that come with backporting). Just play community for the time being. Also, there's currently a VERY promising community server hosting project going on right now! It's being solodevved by kingo, and despite that, he's done a LOT of stuff to make it as similar to casual as possible: the intro with the doors works, the post-game map voting system works, even your casual badges show up in game! The queueing system is also pretty user-friendly, as it opens up an in-game browser page to let you set your queue settings (which includes map, gamemode, rng and other stuff I can't recall rn), and it automatically creates a server if all of them with those settings are full. It's still in development, but there's quite a lot of dev footage on kingo's discord server. It's called the matchmaker, and it's going to be the absolute best way to play TF2 when it releases (better than casual too). I can supply more information if there is demand.
Craziest part of all this to me is the people obsessing over the "economy" situation Shit's literal proof of why treating virtual items from a video game as a "financial investment" is a _bad_ idea But at least that point remains as to why valve killing the game isn't 100% bad, should that happen
Agreed,although I do think valve can't shut down tf2,because this little piece of knowledge you gave isn't knocked into the cs community yet,and shutting down tf2 will definetly make thos people realize this and tap out of buying,they with def realize that they don't own their items and valve does,and valve probably knows this because the game is still technically on life support after meet your match,the update valve gave up on
A hat I bought 9 years ago for 70 keys or so and it's now worth 500 keys ($1,000). If valve chose to kill the game I would be more sad about losing TF2 than I would be about losing that $1k, but not everyone's situation is the same
What makes you think that value of ANYTHING else is not virtual?) Heck, even the value of the land can drop overnight (or government can take it away from you, like it happened many times in history...)
Honestly, if we can't have TF2, then I say the bot hosters can't, either. Still, I'd rather have the game shut down after we did everything we could than sit back and let it happen.
Remember, last time they said something immediately it was "We hear you!" So I'd rather they take their time to actually fix this instead of a half-hearted tweet to pipe people down.
A half hearted tweet and a pos band-aid fix that actually only served to help the bots in the end by making people less capable of getting rid of them when they invade matches.
I mean telling Valve that “these bot hoster falsely claim on you behave a DMCA claim against the petition, Valve should be upset and getting the individual who did it in legal trouble.”
That and take action towards the bot hosters that currently spread CP links ingame through their bots. I am really wondering what may be happening at Valve's office for them to answer on nothing (while still showing that they acknowledged the situation with the whole github ticket situation)
@@zachsz9320 Is that actually true? The last time a story like that popped up it turned out to just be some fear mongering done by a single twitter user who may have been a diddler themselves.
as much as i like to think that, it would be a reason for valve to just recognize our calling for another reason, saying again “we heard you!” just to fix the DMCA problem and running away
@@h.w.4482 It's different when they own Steam and really don't NEED to make games anymore. They're a private company in charge of the biggest, most well-known game distribution platform (likely their biggest priority) and we're expecting change for a game they made 17 years ago when all the voice actors were alive, the devs worked on the game instead of maintaining it, and the casual mode probably functioned as it should (which I wouldn't know about, since I used the server browser more often). I loved TF2, but I don't know how effective this movement really is when they stopped putting in real effort to add content to the game after Jungle Inferno, which was 10 years after the game came out. We're coming up on another 10 years. It's not looking good.
Runing with Scissors (The team behind the Postal series) already joined the movement, so yeah the postal fandom joined the movement so it may still be trending an extra day or two with how active it is (mostly with memes about the postal dude asking for people to sign his petition)
Fighting fire with fire is not a term that is ment literally. You dont use fire on a fire to stop it but you can use fire to burn stuff and stop a already spreading large fire from spreading more. Fire fighter use it on wild fires. They set up a place and get a nice (controllable) burn line going and light it up and that fire will meet with the more dangerous fire and thus leave the larger more dangerious fire no fuel to burn forward. Therefore stopping it.
I had a friend in a call explaining this to me while I was in the final stages of finishing the video and if I wasnt pressed for time I probably would have at least worded what I was trying to say better, LOL. But, that's some crazy stuff, I had no idea about that before. Thanks for sharing!
I think the good reviews need to edit them so the Overwhelmingly positive reviews underneath the negative also hits Negative. let TF2 reach the same as Overwatch 2 to further display to Valve this WONT stand!
Even if Valve does respond, we shouldn't stop until the fully fix the game, so what happened last time won't happen again Edit: When I meant fully fix, I mean completely stomping the bit problem all together, and even then, we should fight for the heavy update.
Dakyser, surely you've watched Weezy's video on the subject. The Heavy Update was a grand dream, but life clearly has other plans. You'll find a lot of us just don't want the Heavy Update anymore. The whole goal of fixtf2 is for casual to be playable again and nothing more. Anything else is just like the first campaign.
@gacwav_ I'm still protesting for the main goal of #FixTF2, I just saying if we do get a response and action from Valve that fixes bots, after, the community should ask Valve to at least give us one last major content patch
Yep I seen them everywhere too. They're in both Singapore and Sydney so the hoster is probably from Western Aus (Western Aus is actually lower ping in Singapore than in Sydney fun fact).
5:35 kisak is active in valve github, always organizating and closing issues/duplicates etc, it's not exactly valve noticing, only him doing his job, except if he escalated tho
Yeah, from what I'm seeing now, it seemed initial confusion came from the actual ValveSoftware account showing up after kisak to lock the thread from receiving additional commentary, and that led everyone to assume that it was all specifically Valve that was interacting with it. Alas, that's how it goes sometimes. I appreciate everyone keeping me informed just as well. 🙏
9:20 Random context that doesn't really matter: you CAN fight fire with fire. The thing is, the only way to do that is to get ahead of the fire, light your own fire, and let it burn off all the fuel before the first fire gets there and thus putting it out. The problem with the analogy here is that fighting bots with our own bots would do the same thing as literally fighting fire with fire: it would destroy the game faster than the bots already are, so that is out of the question.
Part of me wants to believe they're stepping back and actually planning a response. Slim hope obviously, but it's probably the smartest way they COULD handle this since a corpo talk single post would only piss people off more this time
Valve is trying to kill this gem of a game with their neglect, but the TF2 community does NOT give it permission to die. Keep pushing that cart lads. Don’t stop until these bots are GONE. #FixTF2
judging by the sheer age of the game you've gotta at least be in your mid twenties if not thirties bro. grow tf up and let this game die so maybe your children can play team fortress 3 someday, damn
The analogy of fighting fire with fire refers to a legitimate technique for fighting wildfires, to have controlled burns at the perimeter that can be extinguished to limit the spread of the wildfire Anyway good vid, keep up the good fight!
I've seen so many people who are pessimistic about this situation, and I think that it undermines how far we've already come. I mean, we've got a lot going for us already, and this movement dies when we let it, just like with TF2 itself. We won't stop until we get something done, and we've gotten alot done already. Naysaying just dilutes all the morale we have going for us. Saying that it won't work, even if you want it to, may cause it to... not work. We have nothing to lose. Who cares what happens next if we can't control it. We can only control how hard we work for this.
Hmm yes, you have ruined the reputation of the game and have made a petition that has a very low chance of even being thought about. How far you've come.
@@ronaid-with-an-iValve ruined its reputation, all we’re doing is highlighting how bad they are at cyber security and maintaining live service games, indie company’s are better than them at this
@@ronaid-with-an-i Valve ruined the game's reputation long before the movement started. TF2 fans are just now rubbing the last two braincells they have together and realizing that they can actually respond in kind by negatively reviewing the game. You can't blame the community for ruining a game when the devs of said game have been neglecting the problems it's been having for several years now.
Valve employees are more perceptive then people give them credit for. I have a feeling that they are just seeing if this dies out before they have to make a comment on the matter.
I'll be honest, I don't know much about Fortresses, Team or otherwise, but the phrase "Fight fire with fire" is actually a thing. It's called "back-burn" and it's where they'll do a small controlled fire to strip a section of forest of any potential fuel to stop a larger fire from spreading.
As a relatively new player, TF2 is a game that everyone deserves to be able to play. This is one of if not the best fps and easily has one of the most recognizable cast of characters in not just the game, but anywhere else on the internet.
As someone who's experienced a similar and even successful protest (WOTC VS The entire TTRPG community) before, this is only the start. Keep up the energy, for months or years if needed, don't stop and don't spend money on Valve, until there are actual real results. I've been hearing chatter about the possibility of a lawsuit or similar issues with the law, this would be optimal for us. There is nothing more effective to get a company to do things then to vote with your wallets and threaten serious legal action (as in, by another company, or a criminal court or whatever). #FixTF2
It would be funny if they announced it like it was an in-universe issue. Like the MvM bots somehow infesting casual games and the mercs had to fight them off or something.
@@Varg69420 Quite frequently. Valve has a reputation for not really allowing any insight on operations in their company. They'll announce something, but they usually don't announce things unless they're nearing a stable release into the near future, stuff like Artifact and Half-Life: Alyx. Other than that? Nothing. They don't offer commentary on their plans for the future, they don't communicate with their audience, they don't even ask for feedback directly and if they do it's usually by some implemented feature in their games. They appear once in a blue moon, drop some project that they have been quietly working on, and then recede into silence.
The thing that absolutely sucks is silence is their strength and weakness. Sure, you get to keep everything under wraps until you’re comfortable enough to release it, but in situations like this you don’t know if they’re ignoring the problem or working overtime to fix it and just don’t want to admit it
9:24 I think the phrase references the controlled burning of land for example in the case of forest fires, where you burn down a small strip of forest to create a gap that the approaching forest fire can't cross because it doesn't have anything to burn. Overly simplified explanation but yea, I think that's what the saying is about. One might see it as "eye for an eye" but we already have that saying so why substitute it.
I've been playing this game for well over a decade by now and will do my part to make sure it stays afloat as long as someone is in the offices at Valve. Please keep up the good work as always all and keep sharing, talking, and don't let this conversation crumble, Valve needs to be held accountable and have this spotlight on their sloppy disgusting putrid side contrasting with their clean image.
commenting is good for the algorithm. thank you for talking about the item economy when nobody else will- because i think it's the only reason valve hasn't pulled the plug.
@@NicholasEzclapz I only heard good things about it, But sadly the reality is that the skill ceiling is too high to the point you cant get a kill even using the regular combos. Friendlies get kicked and yo cant have more than 3 of the same class.
Bots are programmed to NOT hit other bots but only shoot PLAYERS so if we make two bots a server one for each team give them much health and Programm then to ONLY shoot enemy bots and not players!
Thanks for the update. Despite playing almost exclusively single player games, TF2 has been one of my most beloved games since I started playing it way back in 2009. I never in my life thought I’d make a negative review for it, but here we are.
The people saying to fight fire with fire reminds me of Hamma from ATLA saying 'we have to fight these people whenever we can, wherever they are, with any means necessary'. Megascatterbomb is working with the police to get a case against them from what I can tell. The bot hosters have already headshot themselves when they made that bomb threat and got the police on his side by explaining the situation. Doeshotter was already arrested for having non-combine related 'civil protection' on their computer. If these hosters are so desperate for attention that they will commit crimes then I say give them that which their parents didn't and wait for the boys in blue to give 'em the silver bracelets. They can only run for so long.
This video has helped me keep up to date so much I can’t believe you’re not a million sub youtuber don’t worry man you’ll get there soon you have some of the best quality vids ever
Fighting fire with fire actually works, if you burn everything around a spreading fire there will be knowhere for it to spread, eargo fighting and deafting the fire. Also thanks for the info
Hey, tip for your thumbnails Avoid putting text in the bottom right corner, because the time of the video is displayed over your text, making it hard to read.
@@TonesMcGroans No worries! Nobody talks about it, but thumbnails are actually really tough to get right. And are almost more important than the actual content too.
@@loke3684 It just tends to look messy. People browsing UA-cam on average are typically using about .3% of their brain power, and that extra .01% to make out what it says might be enough to make them look away in fear of having to think.
After we succeed if we succeed or not The perpetrator needs to be held accountable of the damage he has done like swatting, DDOS and much more. How can we get the guy arrested for his crimes?
On the "fight fire with fire" analogy, firefighters do actually use controlled fires to put out wild fires. If you burn what the wild fire is moving toward before it can get there, once the fuel runs out, no more fire. You are right that it doesn't really apply here, though. More bots that only target other bots would just end up in lobbies full of nothing but bots headshotting each other. Not much fun for the real people that still want to play. I'm calling it now: Deadlock will be full of cheater bots on day one. We're already getting reports of cheater bots showing up in the beta testing, so...
You can fight fire with fire. It suffocates the fire and can be helped to move it away from more things to burn. Centralizing the fire. Though, similarly to the fire, if we were to fight "fire with fire", it would result in a centralization of the bots. So you're still right on that since. Bots can't just fizzle out like fire can. But yeah, fire v fire death matches are a thing. It's called back burning or back firing. (aka, the back burners name original probably. Idk. Don't quote me. I know more about fire then pyro. I'm not a furry.)
This is a Helldovers 2 reaction. We successfully made Sony stop in their tracks. We can make Valve listen. We need to make a point to make this a serious stand.
Considering everything that TF2 is, I think the only thing that would put any kind of visible dent in the bot issue is... Doing something with the item marketplace. Either by forcing that marketplace to exclusively use an internally circulated currency, or by shutting down said marketplace altogether.
(3:56) After seeing this I went to the store page of TF2, and seeing how many of the recent reviews were there, (41,880 negative as of typing this comment), it actually put tears in my eyes.
I have an idea but it might be dumb. So you have to complete a tutorial of all the classes to play online, this is tracked via an achievement. It means it would be difficult to program a bot to rocket jump correctly or double jump around a bend with a drop. Especially if there is a pool of tutorial maps it could pick from. At the very least would significantly reduce the amount of bots for a period as none would be able to complete the tutorial until programmed to, and when they manage that slightly alter the tutorial. I don`t know if this is easy to bypass or not but that is just my idea.
The phrase "fight fire with fire" is based on the fact that by adding more fire, you burn up the resources fueling that fire twice as fast and it'll put itself out. At least, that's what I was taught when I was a kid.
Valve not immediately responding as fast as they did when SaveTF2 happened goes to show they know they can't pull the same PR speak twice. They can't go "We hear you!" again without doing anything because it won't work this time. If they had to say something, it'd have to coincide either with an update itself, a roadmap, or a hard date.
Either that, or a "we're working on it" and dealing with getting chased until they ACTUALLY fix the issue
They have hacker problems across all games I am begining to lose hope that they have any kind of working solution
That or they just don't care and aren't gonna respond, which is what non-delusional people think.
They do not care about CS2. Do you really think they will do something with TF2?
@@hopelesssoul9363 No, but is there a chance? Yes, and we're willing to take what we can get considering we have nothing else to lose.
Remember, do NOT stop if they send a message, or post saying they'll do it, KEEP. GOING. We want action, not empty words.
#FixTF2 this shit
yeah just fick it
YEs, once they send a message, question them as to what they will be doing and when we will see results.
Don't get derailed when they add another map with muh cute animal either.
Even if we get updates we should not stop if the updates are too minor and don’t really do anything worthwhile like the ones after savetf2
They attempted to DMCA?
Whoever they are, I recite this famous quote from a certified bug crusher:
"It's afraid!"
A friend once told me he doesn't exist.. and then said that those who doom post have no idea what the message really is. Tell them the message and tell them about what the bots are currently doing.
also the hosters do show genuine fear of this working.
Yo, "Starship Trooper" reference?
bot hosters
Not sure that quote really applies... Starship Troopers is a satire on how authoritarian regimes dehumanize a population to justify hyper-military action. #FixTF2 is simply a request that Valve to do the bare minimum and address the ongoing issues with the game, with no guarantee that they actually will (though that’s not a reason to avoid trying).
Valve still believes they can ignore their customers like it's 2010. Their reputation is circling the drain fast.
Everyone knows that they dont work kn tf2 so tf you mean by drain?
I mean, I prefer them working on new games than continually updating a 17 year old game, idk. I mean a bot cleanse would be nice, but for all intents and purposes the game is finished, and that's fine
@@deddrz2549the problem it’s not a lack of updates but that they don’t maintain the game
Also 14:32
@@imienazwisko6150 its 17 years old, why should they?. Its a old game, no value to them or monetary gaine.
@@muggrootbeer its reputation gain
Fun fact, fighting fire with fire is an actual firefighting technique called a counter fire. the idea is that you make a controlled burn that burns the potential fuel of a forest fire, stopping the large fire in its tracks. Now this version of the explanation makes no sense for bots vs bots, but that's where the saying comes from.
I've had a few comments about this today, and I'm genuinely happy that people are willing to explain - you learn something new every day! I appreciate it.
May I recommend bots that exist to counter-snipe other bots, leave players alone, and boot-kick only their own kind? Dunno how effective that would be in-game, but it's the closest I can imagine. Still, it's that or using bots to track and cut off/mass report other bots.
make bots that only target bots BEGUN THE BOT WARS HAVE
@@JacksonJinn actual bots do use something that basically a sensor that detects fellow bot hosters make a bot that reads that sensor and just counter snipes
@nathanwaterser8218 What if after the bot doesn't detect anymore bots then they kick themselves out.
Never back down! Never give up!
Do not rest until we get some actual concrete results, not when we get a empty "we hear you" damage control promise, not when we get a statement from valve. Only when we have our demands met!
Remember what you are fighting for!
@damsen978 it doesn't necessarily have to be anything more than that, just raising awareness and posting about in social media will put some pressure to valve to at least acknowledge it and do something about it, or if they don't people will potentially start having second thoughts about valve supporting any of their newer games when those get older if they are willing to let tf2 rot with the bot infestation for 6 years at this point.
if the rumours of valve not bothering to do any regular housekeeping work by keeping hackers and bots at bay because they find it "tedious treadmill work" then im not holding out for any hope of longevity from deadlock when the launch momentum dies down, if it gets any by the looks of things.
Hoorah!
@@trainsandstuff1021no actually, it needs to be a lot more than that and you commenting stuff like this is why it will fail
#Fixtf2
They should really just say the truth; they can't fix this.
This is NOT a problem of Valve "neglecting" the game (content updates are slowing down because anything they push out immeditely receives negative feedback), rather VAC being straight up bypassable. The petition shouldn't be about "fixing TF2" as that's a broad term, rather it should be about adding the early-stage-of-development vacnet into the game (however, not only is this unlikely, it may not work as well as expected due to vacnet only being used in a source 2 game, and running it on a different engine might cause issues that come with backporting).
Just play community for the time being. Also, there's currently a VERY promising community server hosting project going on right now! It's being solodevved by kingo, and despite that, he's done a LOT of stuff to make it as similar to casual as possible: the intro with the doors works, the post-game map voting system works, even your casual badges show up in game! The queueing system is also pretty user-friendly, as it opens up an in-game browser page to let you set your queue settings (which includes map, gamemode, rng and other stuff I can't recall rn), and it automatically creates a server if all of them with those settings are full. It's still in development, but there's quite a lot of dev footage on kingo's discord server. It's called the matchmaker, and it's going to be the absolute best way to play TF2 when it releases (better than casual too). I can supply more information if there is demand.
Trying to use our own bots will just get *us* in trouble. The refs always see the second guy.
Craziest part of all this to me is the people obsessing over the "economy" situation
Shit's literal proof of why treating virtual items from a video game as a "financial investment" is a _bad_ idea
But at least that point remains as to why valve killing the game isn't 100% bad, should that happen
Agreed,although I do think valve can't shut down tf2,because this little piece of knowledge you gave isn't knocked into the cs community yet,and shutting down tf2 will definetly make thos people realize this and tap out of buying,they with def realize that they don't own their items and valve does,and valve probably knows this because the game is still technically on life support after meet your match,the update valve gave up on
A hat I bought 9 years ago for 70 keys or so and it's now worth 500 keys ($1,000). If valve chose to kill the game I would be more sad about losing TF2 than I would be about losing that $1k, but not everyone's situation is the same
My inventory's value is a sacrifice I'm willing to make for Valve fixing the game, also wouldn't it go to zero if the game croaked, anyway?
What makes you think that value of ANYTHING else is not virtual?)
Heck, even the value of the land can drop overnight (or government can take it away from you, like it happened many times in history...)
Honestly, if we can't have TF2, then I say the bot hosters can't, either. Still, I'd rather have the game shut down after we did everything we could than sit back and let it happen.
Remember, last time they said something immediately it was "We hear you!"
So I'd rather they take their time to actually fix this instead of a half-hearted tweet to pipe people down.
A half hearted tweet and a pos band-aid fix that actually only served to help the bots in the end by making people less capable of getting rid of them when they invade matches.
I mean telling Valve that “these bot hoster falsely claim on you behave a DMCA claim against the petition, Valve should be upset and getting the individual who did it in legal trouble.”
That and take action towards the bot hosters that currently spread CP links ingame through their bots. I am really wondering what may be happening at Valve's office for them to answer on nothing (while still showing that they acknowledged the situation with the whole github ticket situation)
@@zachsz9320 they're spamming fucking what
@@zachsz9320 Is that actually true? The last time a story like that popped up it turned out to just be some fear mongering done by a single twitter user who may have been a diddler themselves.
But you forgot that requires work. Which valve had shown they don’t like.
as much as i like to think that, it would be a reason for valve to just recognize our calling for another reason, saying again “we heard you!” just to fix the DMCA problem and running away
I think all we are going to end up doing is put an irreversible stain on Valve's name. Welp, let's make it as big as possible
everyone's going to forget this in like an year or less, and their sales won't be affected whatsoever
you don't think a company like EA being known today like they are for their massive blunders over the years has affected their sales at all?
@@h.w.4482 It's different when they own Steam and really don't NEED to make games anymore. They're a private company in charge of the biggest, most well-known game distribution platform (likely their biggest priority) and we're expecting change for a game they made 17 years ago when all the voice actors were alive, the devs worked on the game instead of maintaining it, and the casual mode probably functioned as it should (which I wouldn't know about, since I used the server browser more often). I loved TF2, but I don't know how effective this movement really is when they stopped putting in real effort to add content to the game after Jungle Inferno, which was 10 years after the game came out. We're coming up on another 10 years. It's not looking good.
@henrycgs why not try thinking nothing will change will result in no change
@@orwhynotrandom well, i'm not stopping anyone. so, have you guys had any success screaming at a wall for what, like 5 days now?
Runing with Scissors (The team behind the Postal series) already joined the movement, so yeah the postal fandom joined the movement so it may still be trending an extra day or two with how active it is (mostly with memes about the postal dude asking for people to sign his petition)
Hi there! Would you like to sign my petition?
Fighting fire with fire is not a term that is ment literally. You dont use fire on a fire to stop it but you can use fire to burn stuff and stop a already spreading large fire from spreading more.
Fire fighter use it on wild fires. They set up a place and get a nice (controllable) burn line going and light it up and that fire will meet with the more dangerous fire and thus leave the larger more dangerious fire no fuel to burn forward. Therefore stopping it.
I had a friend in a call explaining this to me while I was in the final stages of finishing the video and if I wasnt pressed for time I probably would have at least worded what I was trying to say better, LOL. But, that's some crazy stuff, I had no idea about that before. Thanks for sharing!
Friendly fire
Funny enough, this is called back-burning, giving a double-entendre to the Pyro's 'Backburner'.
We should ruin tf2 so the bots cant ruin it first!
@@mediumsizedmammal If TF2 ever gets shutdown because of this movement, at least it was US who brought the game down, not the bots.
Site works again, just checked and the artwork is all there
Awesome news!
broken again.
@@vyor8837 Weird, I refreshed the page and it still works for me. Region specific or client side problem maybe?
It’s back
I think most the art is there, just checked
I think the good reviews need to edit them so the Overwhelmingly positive reviews underneath the negative also hits Negative. let TF2 reach the same as Overwatch 2 to further display to Valve this WONT stand!
I just did this 👍-->👎
Even if Valve does respond, we shouldn't stop until the fully fix the game, so what happened last time won't happen again
Edit: When I meant fully fix, I mean completely stomping the bit problem all together, and even then, we should fight for the heavy update.
we just need casual playable again. I don't even want weapon fixes anymore.
LMAO no way someone still thinks we have a chance of getting new content in a 15 year old game over a DECADE of nothing. The delusion is crazy
Dakyser, surely you've watched Weezy's video on the subject. The Heavy Update was a grand dream, but life clearly has other plans. You'll find a lot of us just don't want the Heavy Update anymore. The whole goal of fixtf2 is for casual to be playable again and nothing more. Anything else is just like the first campaign.
@gacwav_ I'm still protesting for the main goal of #FixTF2, I just saying if we do get a response and action from Valve that fixes bots, after, the community should ask Valve to at least give us one last major content patch
@@Dakyser Just remember, Bots first, everything else later.
9:02 Australia has "Bonk bots" that flood servers as scouts and vote no on every vote so that bot infested servers can't kick humans so easily
Um, no
@@godlypumpkin8745BOINK!
Yep I seen them everywhere too. They're in both Singapore and Sydney so the hoster is probably from Western Aus (Western Aus is actually lower ping in Singapore than in Sydney fun fact).
5:35 kisak is active in valve github, always organizating and closing issues/duplicates etc, it's not exactly valve noticing, only him doing his job, except if he escalated tho
Yeah, from what I'm seeing now, it seemed initial confusion came from the actual ValveSoftware account showing up after kisak to lock the thread from receiving additional commentary, and that led everyone to assume that it was all specifically Valve that was interacting with it. Alas, that's how it goes sometimes. I appreciate everyone keeping me informed just as well. 🙏
9:20
Random context that doesn't really matter: you CAN fight fire with fire. The thing is, the only way to do that is to get ahead of the fire, light your own fire, and let it burn off all the fuel before the first fire gets there and thus putting it out. The problem with the analogy here is that fighting bots with our own bots would do the same thing as literally fighting fire with fire: it would destroy the game faster than the bots already are, so that is out of the question.
This specific video is getting me to consider making my own video on TF2 even more, so thank you
Part of me wants to believe they're stepping back and actually planning a response. Slim hope obviously, but it's probably the smartest way they COULD handle this since a corpo talk single post would only piss people off more this time
Valve is trying to kill this gem of a game with their neglect, but the TF2 community does NOT give it permission to die.
Keep pushing that cart lads. Don’t stop until these bots are GONE. #FixTF2
judging by the sheer age of the game you've gotta at least be in your mid twenties if not thirties bro. grow tf up and let this game die so maybe your children can play team fortress 3 someday, damn
@@skarletismercy3275 ikr. like this game is 17 pls move the hell on
*But it refused*
@@NotAGingerISwear you sure showed me with the wholesome undertale chungus dialogue
Great analogy
Just keep pushing #fixtf2 until something happens, never back down
Even Linus Media Group is covering this. Linus Tech Tips is on our side to #FixTF2
It's so cool that valve has allowed the entire game to turn into Mann VS Machine! I can't wait for the summer crate this year!!!
straight up had to wait 3 days for my confirmation email to sign the petition, never been happier to see an email 3 days late LOL
Thanks for providing news from the battleground! Such good content for that small amount of subscribes. Keep up and don't give up!
False copyright strikes is crazy, should get the strikers taken down legally
Speaking of Source games and false copyright strikes:
I'm gonna pour one out to the Nintendo GModders and SFM Creators.
We know that one's legit, though. There were multiple news articles pointing out the veracity of the claim.
With what happened to megascatterbomb, there is technically already an investigation against some of them.
The analogy of fighting fire with fire refers to a legitimate technique for fighting wildfires, to have controlled burns at the perimeter that can be extinguished to limit the spread of the wildfire
Anyway good vid, keep up the good fight!
I've seen so many people who are pessimistic about this situation, and I think that it undermines how far we've already come.
I mean, we've got a lot going for us already, and this movement dies when we let it, just like with TF2 itself. We won't stop until we get something done, and we've gotten alot done already. Naysaying just dilutes all the morale we have going for us. Saying that it won't work, even if you want it to, may cause it to... not work. We have nothing to lose. Who cares what happens next if we can't control it. We can only control how hard we work for this.
Hmm yes, you have ruined the reputation of the game and have made a petition that has a very low chance of even being thought about. How far you've come.
@@ronaid-with-an-iwe didn’t ruin the game’s reputation, the bots did
@@ronaid-with-an-iValve ruined its reputation, all we’re doing is highlighting how bad they are at cyber security and maintaining live service games, indie company’s are better than them at this
@@ronaid-with-an-i Valve ruined the game's reputation long before the movement started. TF2 fans are just now rubbing the last two braincells they have together and realizing that they can actually respond in kind by negatively reviewing the game. You can't blame the community for ruining a game when the devs of said game have been neglecting the problems it's been having for several years now.
6:32 pun on the kunai is rlly good
it really is, actually, LOL
Honestly, I use the spycicle only for making ice puns, and I think the statues are cool, so that spy has my respect
Valve employees are more perceptive then people give them credit for. I have a feeling that they are just seeing if this dies out before they have to make a comment on the matter.
When will they learn
That their actions have
CONSEQUENCES
Im pretty sure that Valve can get in legal trouble if they dont fix the CP spamming bots. So the fact that they havent been is.. questionable.
Probably because the authorities haven't even heard of the CP spamming yet.
bro, i think i was in your lobby like yesterday, you were totally owning me! i didnt know you had a youtube channel, totally subbing.
I'll be honest, I don't know much about Fortresses, Team or otherwise, but the phrase "Fight fire with fire" is actually a thing. It's called "back-burn" and it's where they'll do a small controlled fire to strip a section of forest of any potential fuel to stop a larger fire from spreading.
As a relatively new player, TF2 is a game that everyone deserves to be able to play. This is one of if not the best fps and easily has one of the most recognizable cast of characters in not just the game, but anywhere else on the internet.
Very well put! Thanks for making this.
As someone who's experienced a similar and even successful protest (WOTC VS The entire TTRPG community) before, this is only the start. Keep up the energy, for months or years if needed, don't stop and don't spend money on Valve, until there are actual real results.
I've been hearing chatter about the possibility of a lawsuit or similar issues with the law, this would be optimal for us. There is nothing more effective to get a company to do things then to vote with your wallets and threaten serious legal action (as in, by another company, or a criminal court or whatever).
#FixTF2
Deep in my heart I think valve are working on it with old valve fashion in silence
I hope😢
It would be funny if they announced it like it was an in-universe issue. Like the MvM bots somehow infesting casual games and the mercs had to fight them off or something.
since when was valve silent before all this
@@Varg69420 Quite frequently. Valve has a reputation for not really allowing any insight on operations in their company. They'll announce something, but they usually don't announce things unless they're nearing a stable release into the near future, stuff like Artifact and Half-Life: Alyx. Other than that? Nothing. They don't offer commentary on their plans for the future, they don't communicate with their audience, they don't even ask for feedback directly and if they do it's usually by some implemented feature in their games. They appear once in a blue moon, drop some project that they have been quietly working on, and then recede into silence.
The thing that absolutely sucks is silence is their strength and weakness. Sure, you get to keep everything under wraps until you’re comfortable enough to release it, but in situations like this you don’t know if they’re ignoring the problem or working overtime to fix it and just don’t want to admit it
Real world fire fighting does, in fact, use fire to fight fire. You burn away the fuel for a larger forest fire ahead of it to create a firebreak.
9:24 I think the phrase references the controlled burning of land for example in the case of forest fires, where you burn down a small strip of forest to create a gap that the approaching forest fire can't cross because it doesn't have anything to burn. Overly simplified explanation but yea, I think that's what the saying is about. One might see it as "eye for an eye" but we already have that saying so why substitute it.
I've been playing this game for well over a decade by now and will do my part to make sure it stays afloat as long as someone is in the offices at Valve. Please keep up the good work as always all and keep sharing, talking, and don't let this conversation crumble, Valve needs to be held accountable and have this spotlight on their sloppy disgusting putrid side contrasting with their clean image.
Good commentary, you have a good shot at this if you wanna keep this sorta thing up!
commenting is good for the algorithm.
thank you for talking about the item economy when nobody else will- because i think it's the only reason valve hasn't pulled the plug.
Wait until Mike Litoris hears about this
and his brother Mike Ondolences
And his uncle Mike Hunt
And his cousin Mike Rotch
And his grandfather Mike Ock
And his roommate, Mike Hoochie?
Or their grocer, Mike Rack?
Or their bus driver, Mike Lamydia?
Thanks for all of these updates on fixtf2!
Almost a quarter million signatures
nice editing, thanks for keeping people informed
ay thanks for these fix tf2 updates man, it really helps me stay up to date
Hey. I remember you from Uncletopia, I was talking about how I followed you on twitch.
I remember that day! Fun games. Howdy!
Uncletopia is utter cancer
@@TonesMcGroans Meowdy, this video blew up, congrats haha
@@NicholasEzclapz I only heard good things about it, But sadly the reality is that the skill ceiling is too high to the point you cant get a kill even using the regular combos. Friendlies get kicked and yo cant have more than 3 of the same class.
ankle dan is a very gud santa man
i hope they replace the images with poorly drawn ms paint jpegs
Well-thought-out and informative video. Really enjoyed the commentary, too. One can only hope Valve does the right thing...
I DID MY PART! I SIGNED THE PETITION!
Bots are programmed to NOT hit other bots but only shoot PLAYERS so if we make two bots a server one for each team give them much health and Programm then to ONLY shoot enemy bots and not players!
You'd also have to make them leave the server when all the bad bots are gone so they don't hog player slots.
This man solved the crisis right here
Someone needs to make a tf2 rage against the machine parody
the sonic cd ost is insanely good
Very much so. 🙏
5:04 That medigun name. Yikes.
Horrible, but funny
That is tame tf compared to that other blatantly r@cist/homophobic names lol
Continuing to hope, sure could use more of it.
Thanks for the update. Despite playing almost exclusively single player games, TF2 has been one of my most beloved games since I started playing it way back in 2009. I never in my life thought I’d make a negative review for it, but here we are.
#FixTF2 until Valve fixes the game, not until they tweet, not until there are updates, until there are no more bots.
The people saying to fight fire with fire reminds me of Hamma from ATLA saying 'we have to fight these people whenever we can, wherever they are, with any means necessary'. Megascatterbomb is working with the police to get a case against them from what I can tell. The bot hosters have already headshot themselves when they made that bomb threat and got the police on his side by explaining the situation. Doeshotter was already arrested for having non-combine related 'civil protection' on their computer. If these hosters are so desperate for attention that they will commit crimes then I say give them that which their parents didn't and wait for the boys in blue to give 'em the silver bracelets. They can only run for so long.
red jarate is real you just need to believe in it to get it
Taking TF2 offline would be like letting multiple pitbulls into a kindergarten
They'd get banned throughout working systems in other contemporary games real fast.
Sidenote: dude holy fuck that guy has a robo sanvich
This video has helped me keep up to date so much I can’t believe you’re not a million sub youtuber don’t worry man you’ll get there soon you have some of the best quality vids ever
Can't wait to see how this ends
Fighting fire with fire actually works, if you burn everything around a spreading fire there will be knowhere for it to spread, eargo fighting and deafting the fire. Also thanks for the info
whenever someone says theyre going to fight fire with fire theyre intentionally subverting another saying "you cant fight fire with fire"
Hey, tip for your thumbnails
Avoid putting text in the bottom right corner, because the time of the video is displayed over your text, making it hard to read.
Oh shoot, you are absolutely right. I had no idea - thanks for letting me know!
@@TonesMcGroans No worries! Nobody talks about it, but thumbnails are actually really tough to get right. And are almost more important than the actual content too.
i agree with you but also it’s only covering 2 letters of a 9 letter word
@@loke3684 It just tends to look messy. People browsing UA-cam on average are typically using about .3% of their brain power, and that extra .01% to make out what it says might be enough to make them look away in fear of having to think.
After we succeed if we succeed or not
The perpetrator needs to be held accountable of the damage he has done like swatting, DDOS and much more.
How can we get the guy arrested for his crimes?
This is good, gotta keep the updates going and not stop if possible
We have Megascatterbomb to blame for a big chunk of the bots
This situation gets a snowball effect
Remember, the words are only as strong if the action is still there
I enjoyed watching this I think you should keep posting tf2 content like gameplay and challenges I think you can make it big
"If you fight fire with fire, the world will go up in smoke"
9:33
Pyro
On the "fight fire with fire" analogy, firefighters do actually use controlled fires to put out wild fires. If you burn what the wild fire is moving toward before it can get there, once the fuel runs out, no more fire. You are right that it doesn't really apply here, though. More bots that only target other bots would just end up in lobbies full of nothing but bots headshotting each other. Not much fun for the real people that still want to play.
I'm calling it now: Deadlock will be full of cheater bots on day one. We're already getting reports of cheater bots showing up in the beta testing, so...
You can fight fire with fire. It suffocates the fire and can be helped to move it away from more things to burn. Centralizing the fire. Though, similarly to the fire, if we were to fight "fire with fire", it would result in a centralization of the bots. So you're still right on that since. Bots can't just fizzle out like fire can. But yeah, fire v fire death matches are a thing. It's called back burning or back firing. (aka, the back burners name original probably. Idk. Don't quote me. I know more about fire then pyro. I'm not a furry.)
Anybody told Valve about the CP spamming PDFile bots yet?
I even finally got around to uploading TF2 videos on my channel just to document the bot crisis
This is a Helldovers 2 reaction.
We successfully made Sony stop in their tracks. We can make Valve listen. We need to make a point to make this a serious stand.
"After nine years in development, hopefully it will be worth the wait."
Keep going save tf2!
13:59 completely off topic, but the way you killed this spy was brutal as shit.
Keep pushing boys
We will not give up
#Fixtf2
firefighters set fires that intersect with the main fire. it's called a controlled burn.
awesome music choice man
When I went to sign the petition, my email was already signed up, the voting has to have been going on longer than 3 days.
Never back down, never WHAT?
super underrated channel, I love your editing man #FixTF2
Considering everything that TF2 is, I think the only thing that would put any kind of visible dent in the bot issue is... Doing something with the item marketplace.
Either by forcing that marketplace to exclusively use an internally circulated currency, or by shutting down said marketplace altogether.
I’m chuckling at the bot hosters panicking out about fixtf2
actually if u add fire to fire eventually the fire burns out due to lack of oxygen
(3:56) After seeing this I went to the store page of TF2, and seeing how many of the recent reviews were there, (41,880 negative as of typing this comment), it actually put tears in my eyes.
Was doing this so close to Summer Games Fest the right move where there's a hundred other games being buzzed about over the weekend?
I have an idea but it might be dumb.
So you have to complete a tutorial of all the classes to play online, this is tracked via an achievement. It means it would be difficult to program a bot to rocket jump correctly or double jump around a bend with a drop.
Especially if there is a pool of tutorial maps it could pick from.
At the very least would significantly reduce the amount of bots for a period as none would be able to complete the tutorial until programmed to, and when they manage that slightly alter the tutorial.
I don`t know if this is easy to bypass or not but that is just my idea.
This is like Johnny Depp vs Amber Heard drama.
The phrase "fight fire with fire" is based on the fact that by adding more fire, you burn up the resources fueling that fire twice as fast and it'll put itself out. At least, that's what I was taught when I was a kid.