For those not having seen the episode: Sheridan WANTED full authority because he knew some of the ships going between the systems of the different planets where pirates and military ships from other planets in the league.... And non of them would give him permission to solve it, since it would affect the worlds doing the shady stuff. So Sheridan deliberatly leaked that the White Star fleet, that was the toughest, badest MF ships in the galaxy, based on an ancient, extremly advanced civilazation (who no longer inhabited the galaxy) and under his personal command, where "on a secret" mission and he didn't tell anyone so that all the ambassadors started thinking that there was a new threat out there and that he did not wish them to know (so that only Sheridans worlds, like earth etc) would be protected by the white star fleet...... So the indirectly gave him full authority over their space and essentially got them all into joining his politcal alliance (essentially the Babylon 5 version of The Federation in Star Trek).
Yep, had Marcus take a couple of White Stars to a sector, blow up a couple of asteroids. Ivanova say nothing of importance happened in that sector and the doctor asking for more blood samples. He made the league come to him thinking they were in charge and not doing what he wanted in the first place.
He had the white stag fleet blow up Some asteroids. They do not do that so the other worlds panicked and wanted protection and to join after that. Sheridan got what he wanted.
I love how they just essentially made him their leader. He's got full military control, he can traverse all their territory *and* their fleets will accompany him or go as he deems appropriate.
@@m.h.6470, true. And irrelevant. The spaces within their individual systems' borders aren't big enough to be a concern; they're easily avoided through navigation. He'd just gotten permission to patrol all the surrounding space and act at will for all ships entering and leaving each system. He'd also kept himself free of internal squabbles within each system. And he did it without asking for any of it. It's entirely the League's instructions.
@@RogueDragon05 hahaha..they didnt just give up their homeworlds they gave every star system, every colony, every station every ship and they forced him to do it.
The interesting thing is, that this is also how dictators get to power. They think of a threat and make the people belief he is the only one capable of protecting them. While in this case his intentions are of course good. It's almost similar to how Palpatine got to power in Star Wars. He created a threat (separatists) so he could gain more and more power in the senate. It's pretty scary when you think about it,
Don't be ridiculous. This show was far from underrated. Why do so many people quote this cliche for programmes to which is clearly does not apply is a mystery to me!
@@straightbackdown Speaking as someone who watched B5 back in its original network tv run, and watched it be ignored by the press at the time, yes underrated fits.
One of the best episodes in the setting. Instead of forcing the fleet upon the League that would resist it because of their paranoia, he used that paranoia to get the League to insist on getting the fleet themselves... making it appear that it was their idea in the first place. Perfect use of reverse psychology. Well played Sheridan... well played indeed.
It kinda reminds me of how Chancellor Palpatine in Star Wars manipulated the Galactic Senate into giving him more executive powers thus making him look like they forced the authoritarian powers onto him and make him look less suspicious of being some sort of ambitious dictator.
As Lazarus Long said, "The most artful way to lie is to tell the truth, and maybe even all of it, but tell it in such a way that you convince your listener that you're lying."
Sheridan "I am tired of doing things the hard way. There's an easier way to convince them." Marcus "And how do we do that?" Sheridan "By not convincing them. Ha-ha!"
Sheridan has a brain that is twisty like a corkscrew and sharp like a razor. Seriously, half the time he's deadly direct (his military tactics, as commented on in A Call to Arms are basic and straightforward designed to maximize his advantages. Okay, and a lot of bombs) but politically he loves his smoke and mirrors. He plays the bluff cowboy, but you can't count the number of times that Ivanova, Garibaldi or Franklin just stare at him when he goes off on a tear.
@@saberstrike000 Interestingly enough, Sheridan was not one of accustomed to politics(which was excatly the reason why President Clark chose him to command Babylon 5) but he grew into it.
The beauty of this is how Sheriden played this as the "loser" of the exchange. He got everything he wanted and let them think they won. Too many people wouldn't allow themselves to be treated like this ("You're dismissed"), even after winning.
Despite being a Military man, Sheridan had the makings of a born politician, he understood, political leaders and representatives, better than most people, and how politicians will only do something when they believe it is in their best interests and that the best way to get them to do something is make them believe/think it was their idea.
@@HikaruXavier Yea though Sheriden said it himself he didn't have the patience of a politician and was more honest. Besides kids don't always have their parents traits/talents
This was one of my favorite little stories withing the larger, overall story. He got them to *WANT* what he wanted, and he allowed them to feel like they won something in getting it. Manipulative, sure, but it was needed, and he allowed them to feel like getting these ships was *THEIR* victory.
Diplomacy is all about manipulation of information and emotions. The people who think diplomacy is for wusses are likely the kind of people who are easily manipulated.
In Star Wars, how do you think Chancellor Palpatine was able to rack up so much power? Through deception and manipulation, he got the Senate paranoid so much during the Clone Wars.
The true art of manipulation is not to force someone to do what you want. It is to get the other side to give you what you want out of their own free will.
That's why I made sure to hit up an unofficial reunion convention a couple years back. Wanted to meet as many of them as I could before even more of them "go exploring". :)
I'm happy to have met a few of the main cast. Andreas Katsulas, Claudia Christian, hell, Peter Jurasik was in front of me checking into a convention's hotel, asked for the time, my head near exploded. Jerry Doyle....sigh, would have loved to have met him.
We will see them all again. Simply because, All life is transitory. A dream. We all come together in the same place at the end of time. If we don't see them again here, we will see them in a little while, in the place where no shadows fall.
Raven24 personally, I like when he convinces the media to go along with his story. "I can't do that, I won't report false stories". "You won't be. There really is nothing going on in the Maguffin sector".
Marcus: Remembers his own prophecy. “A collision will spell your doom.” “Oh well, who wants to live forever.” After the mission. “I’m alive! I’mma’liiiiive!”
well throughout the episode he had been having Ivanova and Garbaldi planting gossip of an invisible/cloaked enemy the Rangers were fighting. Even sortied a few White Stars to shoot at basically interstellar gases.
There is more to it. Up until this point the League was outright refusing to work together and denied the White Star fleet any access to help secure their territories. They had only done so before because of the threat of the Shadows (and to a lesser degree the Vorlons). So Sheridan manipulated them into thinking there was an invisible enemy that only White Star vessels could detect and the end result was having them demanding that Sheridan recognized them working together and the White Star fleet help secure their territories.
I love the symmetry here. Sheridan convinces the League of a lie by telling them the absolute truth (aside from ig Londo and stuff). Nothing happened in that particular sector. The Doctor needs emergency blood supply in cases of emergency. And the lie he convinced them of is an invisible enemy. The League then “convinces” Sheridan of the lie that they need to be protected from the invisible enemy by telling them the truth: that raiding parties and Drakh have begun incursions into League territory; which is exactly what Sheridan was trying to protect them from! Textbook military deception. Not so much on lying as it is presenting truths in a way that suggest a lie.
When in negotiations, make the other side think you're working from a position of weakness... all the while you're maneuvering them into what you want.
I think the best part (leading up to this) is when Sheridan is talking to Londo, telling him to keep denying anything happened, as it is the truth that nothing happened at all, lol, that scene was funny
God I love this show. Years ago I was able to buy all four seasons on DVD for an absurdly low price (~$20 a piece if memory serves) at the local Best Buy. Best day ever.
I remember this episode. Especially earlier when he figured out how to get the others to join. Sitting drinking something and the idea came to him after he left laughing Ivanava checked his drink .
This is one of my favourite moments in the show actually I have quite a lot of favourite moments from this show but it’s so well set up using there own negative traces to get what he wants.
This was a good episode. Sheridan was so frustrated at trying to convince the other races to "accept" help, then switched to a passive denial of services tactic so it appears to the be their idea to "demand" his assistance. The key was that "nothing" happened in some sector, which sowed the idea that "something" did and it was being covered up (the usual diplomatic distrust, everyone lies, thought process).
The League of Non-Aligned Worlds are notorious for being a quarrelsome bitchy bunch of big babies who rarely get anything done. Sheridan did some reverse psychology and manipulated them without even trying, it was easy!
Sheridan after meeting with the League (thinking to himself): Keep calm, keep a straight face, and just how many of them do you think I outsmarted just now? Also Sheridan after entering the elevator thinking no-one could hear him: YEEEEEEEEEESSSSS!
I loved this part. But you didn't show the lead up. Where they were all refusing to commit their forces, so he had the white stars shoot up a bunch of asteroids, to make it look like... Well you'd have to see it.
"Shoot some asteroids... and then come back." The best part is you can see the wheels spinning as Marcus - who's a pretty tricky customer himself - tries to figure out what Sheridan's up to, and fails.
JamaicanCastle Marcus was one of my favorite characters. I loved when he was in the hospital bed after getting his ass kicked by Naroon. and Marcus says, 'Next time you want a revelation, could you possibly find a way that isn't quite so uncomfortable."
This was one of the most brilliant pieces of writing. He had the whole thing plotted out and we were all led by the nose until just about this scene. It was BRILLIANT
@Eric Taylor, The best way to get someone to listen is to say nothing, the best way for someone to see is be blind and the best way to lead is to become become lost
Brilliant, he plants rumours and gossip then acts like he doesn't want to do the one thing he wants. They force him into doing the very thing they were vehemently opposed to at the start.
There will never be another show like Babylon 5 the story that makes you truly feel for each character a long lost art. For those who are still with us and those who have now gone on the great adventure to the outer rim thank you.
I know you say that but I am currently getting into Star Trek Deep Space 9 and this series here and… I want, no, I _need _more. Please! Just me something… Give me hope.
Sheridan actually said once(in shadow war-arc) that assemblying non-alingned worlds to a common cause was like trying to stack a bunch of marbles into a corner(granted, he found a way to convince them that time too)
"hectic day" i should think everyday is hectic with the workload he must have. even before the bigger troubles started he's the governor/administrator of a station with a quarter of a million people, head of the not-insubstantial military forces of the station, and ambassador of earth's affairs on the diplomatic scene of b5 which is its whole reason for existing. really seems like a lot of heap on a guy, it should really be split up between half a dozen officials of more senior rank than sheridan or sinclair. he's basically king of his own small nation
This is hilarious. A year ago I scoured the site for my Babylon 5 clips and most time left without. But now it's everywhere! Great show! Not bad for show that not even their parent company cared about kr supported!
The League of Non-aligned Worlds is a reference to the RL "Non Aligned Movement" that existed during the Cold War for countries that didn't want to ally with either NATO or the Warsaw Pact
I would call this a comedy episode, by B5 standards, and it was quite possibly one of my favourite B5 episodes, and my favourite comedy episode of any series.
sheridan using the wizards first rule : People are stupid. They believe things mainly because they either want them to be true or fear them to be true.
That was such a awesome scene. Those idiots gave Sheridan exactly what he wanted. He played them perfectly. What a great show. Babylon 5 is a glimpse into our future
My top 3 sci-fi series Doctor Who (63-20??), Blake's 7, Babylon 5, I grew up with DW, then Blake came along with the gorgeous Avon, not forgetting Villa. Finally B5 came along with great characters, stories and villains you can really dislike Bester and Mr Morden. RIP to all those who left us, you'll never be forgotten.
There were other factors - the White Stars were "on maneuvers" (blowing up asteroids) in that area, and Franklin had been told to ask them for more medical supplies "in case something comes up". But like all good paranoia gambits it was just enough to get them thinking about the worst that could happen, and get them to fill in the rest themselves.
After watching Babylon 5, I am not so excited about humans contacting aliens any more.We will remain the same shits and they would be just weird and that's that.
If we are "shits," and they are "weird," then some "weird shit" is going to go down and that I would love to see! Pardon the word play, I couldn't resist.
The chances are that within the same race, there are aliens who are shits and aliens who are great people. In order to achieve a technologically complex society, they will need to be able to cooperate, but to also be individual, and different from each other in nature. They may look quite different from each other, or similar (from our point of view), afterall, there is more genetic diversity in one chimpanze troop than within the entire human race. Bear in mind that there is also _Convergent Evolution,_ what works well in a given environment will work as well for an alien as it will for a human (hence the eye evolving numerous times on Earth), so aliens might not be quite so alien as we might imagine. However, if we don't find any other civilisation in the galaxy, by the time humans have colonised it (assuming we manage that, rather than destroying ourselves), which, even at the achievable velocity of 20% light speed, would only take a few million years, due to long term separation and, almost certainly, genetic manipulation, our species will be several different species, who may well look alien to each other. We would probably avoid the galactic core, due to heavier radiation there, and so, meeting on the far side, would definitely be the meeting of different species...
@@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 They want to destroy all non Ur-Quan sentience? I'm not surprised that their name is virtually an anagram of qu'ran, with just a "u" left over.
They played right into his hands. He got what he wanted with even asking. Now that is smart.He will have the papers ready in the afternoon, bull. He had the papers ready days ago.
Well...yes, he WILL have the papers ready by late afternoon. The fact that they are - even now - sitting in a drawer, in his desk, ready to be signed, is Totally Irrelevant - he is keeping his promise, yes siree! And are you going to blame him for taking the afternoon off? He DESERVES it!
There is nothing more satisfying in a negotiation than convincing someone to do something they were against from the start, whilst making them think it was their idea.
"See my not denying it doesn't make it true. Are you with me so far? So many things in the universe are, and so many aren't. If I tried to deny everything that isn't, we'd be here all day!"
Slick haired Brakiri bargain hard to be persuaded to join Alliance. Turn up, gorgeous looking ships are immediately vaporised by scary giant spiders without firing a shot. Again. Brakiri keep rocking the 90's hair at future conferences regardless of incredible failings. Meanwhile Drazi Purple win hard fought right to seating preference in space station Zocolo coffee shops over Greens.
"For those that have been concerned - nothing whatsoever happened today in sector 17. I repeat, nothing happened in sector 17!"
And Grey 17 is not missing. I repeat, Grey 17 is not missing.
fine you may have my ships now tell me !!!!WHATS HAPPENING IN SECTOR 17
Saberian Dream but am I missing anything by NOT saying “Grey 17 is missing” is missing?
It was actually Sector 83 by 9 by 12.
OMG. I know this is an old thread but yea. I remember that awesome scene. I laughed so hard.
For those not having seen the episode: Sheridan WANTED full authority because he knew some of the ships going between the systems of the different planets where pirates and military ships from other planets in the league.... And non of them would give him permission to solve it, since it would affect the worlds doing the shady stuff.
So Sheridan deliberatly leaked that the White Star fleet, that was the toughest, badest MF ships in the galaxy, based on an ancient, extremly advanced civilazation (who no longer inhabited the galaxy) and under his personal command, where "on a secret" mission and he didn't tell anyone so that all the ambassadors started thinking that there was a new threat out there and that he did not wish them to know (so that only Sheridans worlds, like earth etc) would be protected by the white star fleet...... So the indirectly gave him full authority over their space and essentially got them all into joining his politcal alliance (essentially the Babylon 5 version of The Federation in Star Trek).
Yep, had Marcus take a couple of White Stars to a sector, blow up a couple of asteroids. Ivanova say nothing of importance happened in that sector and the doctor asking for more blood samples.
He made the league come to him thinking they were in charge and not doing what he wanted in the first place.
"I'm going to convince them by not convincing them!" - Captain John Sheridan (Paraphrased)
He had the white stag fleet blow up
Some asteroids. They do not do that so the other worlds panicked and wanted protection and to join after that. Sheridan got what he wanted.
Star***
@@francinemg2822 he even had Ivanonva make a public announcement that... nothing happened.
ua-cam.com/video/vZt5_27mGcE/v-deo.html
I love how they just essentially made him their leader.
He's got full military control, he can traverse all their territory *and* their fleets will accompany him or go as he deems appropriate.
"Just don't give away the homeworld!" *G'Kar in "Born to the Purple"*
he(the white star fleet) can't traverse their territories freely - just their borders.
@@m.h.6470, true. And irrelevant. The spaces within their individual systems' borders aren't big enough to be a concern; they're easily avoided through navigation. He'd just gotten permission to patrol all the surrounding space and act at will for all ships entering and leaving each system. He'd also kept himself free of internal squabbles within each system. And he did it without asking for any of it. It's entirely the League's instructions.
@@RogueDragon05 hahaha..they didnt just give up their homeworlds they gave every star system, every colony, every station every ship and they forced him to do it.
The interesting thing is, that this is also how dictators get to power.
They think of a threat and make the people belief he is the only one capable of protecting them.
While in this case his intentions are of course good. It's almost similar to how Palpatine got to power in Star Wars.
He created a threat (separatists) so he could gain more and more power in the senate.
It's pretty scary when you think about it,
A criminally underrated science fiction series.
The 'Lord of the Rings' of space. Best Sci-Fi show ever. Planned from day one to run 5 years!
Don't be ridiculous. This show was far from underrated. Why do so many people quote this cliche for programmes to which is clearly does not apply is a mystery to me!
straightbackdown I never even knew this show existed most of my life. I'd say underrated is an applicable descriptor
@@straightbackdown Speaking as someone who watched B5 back in its original network tv run, and watched it be ignored by the press at the time, yes underrated fits.
Greatest Science Fiction series ever
One of the best episodes in the setting. Instead of forcing the fleet upon the League that would resist it because of their paranoia, he used that paranoia to get the League to insist on getting the fleet themselves... making it appear that it was their idea in the first place. Perfect use of reverse psychology.
Well played Sheridan... well played indeed.
@galx5199, What is even better than that is the League were patting themselves on the back over how they forced Sheridan's hand
Diplomacy is the art of letting the other person have it your way -- Daniele Vare
Yes, much harder to build trust, which they ultimately did manage with the ISA.
Sheridan's tactics were almost Vorlon in precision and equally as indecipherable.
It kinda reminds me of how Chancellor Palpatine in Star Wars manipulated the Galactic Senate into giving him more executive powers thus making him look like they forced the authoritarian powers onto him and make him look less suspicious of being some sort of ambitious dictator.
As Lazarus Long said, "The most artful way to lie is to tell the truth, and maybe even all of it, but tell it in such a way that you convince your listener that you're lying."
I've never heard that before but I love it!
Haven't heard that name in decades and I am 65, great character and stories. Methusalah's children.
Or as "Deep throat" on the X-files said: "The best way to sell a lie is to slip it between two truths."
@Ryan Hughes "Time Enough for Love"
@@maigretus1 Good god, I read that back in the 70's, and remember the name of Lazarus Long
Sheridan "I am tired of doing things the hard way. There's an easier way to convince them."
Marcus "And how do we do that?"
Sheridan "By not convincing them. Ha-ha!"
Sheridan : (hit the table)
Ivanova : (scream)
Sheridan:(walks out)
Ivanova: (Picks up Sheridan's cup and sniffs contents) Just checking.
True Bab5 fans :) I love it!
Sheridan has a brain that is twisty like a corkscrew and sharp like a razor. Seriously, half the time he's deadly direct (his military tactics, as commented on in A Call to Arms are basic and straightforward designed to maximize his advantages. Okay, and a lot of bombs) but politically he loves his smoke and mirrors. He plays the bluff cowboy, but you can't count the number of times that Ivanova, Garibaldi or Franklin just stare at him when he goes off on a tear.
@@saberstrike000 Interestingly enough, Sheridan was not one of accustomed to politics(which was excatly the reason why President Clark chose him to command Babylon 5) but he grew into it.
The beauty of this is how Sheriden played this as the "loser" of the exchange. He got everything he wanted and let them think they won. Too many people wouldn't allow themselves to be treated like this ("You're dismissed"), even after winning.
2:20 "Ha ha, I have successfully outsmarted you, Sheridan."
"I bow to your superior tactics."
Despite being a Military man, Sheridan had the makings of a born politician, he understood, political leaders and representatives, better than most people, and how politicians will only do something when they believe it is in their best interests and that the best way to get them to do something is make them believe/think it was their idea.
His father was a diplomat. Like father, like son...
@@HikaruXavier Yea though Sheriden said it himself he didn't have the patience of a politician and was more honest. Besides kids don't always have their parents traits/talents
Now you are quoting "Yes Minister"... :-)
@@gembommo Sorry not familiar with that show, before my time and in a different country
@@Lightingwarrior You should wathc it, it's a clasic.
This was one of my favorite little stories withing the larger, overall story. He got them to *WANT* what he wanted, and he allowed them to feel like they won something in getting it.
Manipulative, sure, but it was needed, and he allowed them to feel like getting these ships was *THEIR* victory.
Diplomacy is all about manipulation of information and emotions. The people who think diplomacy is for wusses are likely the kind of people who are easily manipulated.
"Humans are not thinking machines, they are feeling machines." Saying was about humans, but i'd imagine a sentient humanoid species would be similar
Getting people to do what is in their best intrest is more leadership than manipulation but I get what your point.
In Star Wars, how do you think Chancellor Palpatine was able to rack up so much power? Through deception and manipulation, he got the Senate paranoid so much during the Clone Wars.
Oh, I can go now?
Well, okay, I'll go...and laugh my ass off!
The true art of manipulation is not to force someone to do what you want.
It is to get the other side to give you what you want out of their own free will.
A pity Nations can not seem to learn this.
@@khankrum1 China is doing it...
Sun Tsu if memory serves me correctly...I used to teach a class on him at West Point.
@@khankrum1 We already have a lot of populist parties, and you think its not being done?
.. And feel good about it hehe
Best sci-fi series EVER! Shame a lot of the main characters have 'gone beyond the rim'!
That's why I made sure to hit up an unofficial reunion convention a couple years back. Wanted to meet as many of them as I could before even more of them "go exploring". :)
I'm happy to have met a few of the main cast. Andreas Katsulas, Claudia Christian, hell, Peter Jurasik was in front of me checking into a convention's hotel, asked for the time, my head near exploded. Jerry Doyle....sigh, would have loved to have met him.
A journey we must all take one day.
1 million years later
We will see them all again. Simply because, All life is transitory. A dream. We all come together in the same place at the end of time. If we don't see them again here, we will see them in a little while, in the place where no shadows fall.
The way that whole episode played out was brilliantly written and acted.
It was one of the early indicators that Sheridan had to potential to be an effective politician.
A true leader makes you do what they want, while making you think it was your idea from the beginning.
you forgot the best part, sheridan orders the white star fleet to attack asteroids, harmless asteroids
Raven24 personally, I like when he convinces the media to go along with his story. "I can't do that, I won't report false stories".
"You won't be. There really is nothing going on in the Maguffin sector".
They are evil, fanatical asteroids that hate us and our lifestyle and want to destroy us.
"Blow up a few rocks and then leave?" -Marcus, justifiably confused
nonsense... White stars dont just shoot at asteroids...
Marcus: Remembers his own prophecy. “A collision will spell your doom.”
“Oh well, who wants to live forever.”
After the mission. “I’m alive! I’mma’liiiiive!”
I didn't see it at first, but then I realized he just convinced them to help them for free instead of pleading for it.
well throughout the episode he had been having Ivanova and Garbaldi planting gossip of an invisible/cloaked enemy the Rangers were fighting. Even sortied a few White Stars to shoot at basically interstellar gases.
Today in Sector X nothing happened. I repeat, nothing has happened.
Actually Asteroid, basically space rocks :)
There is more to it. Up until this point the League was outright refusing to work together and denied the White Star fleet any access to help secure their territories. They had only done so before because of the threat of the Shadows (and to a lesser degree the Vorlons). So Sheridan manipulated them into thinking there was an invisible enemy that only White Star vessels could detect and the end result was having them demanding that Sheridan recognized them working together and the White Star fleet help secure their territories.
@@gerardfogarty1463 Hes playing Asteroids on real ships? I always wanted to do that when I was a kid..
I love the symmetry here. Sheridan convinces the League of a lie by telling them the absolute truth (aside from ig Londo and stuff). Nothing happened in that particular sector. The Doctor needs emergency blood supply in cases of emergency. And the lie he convinced them of is an invisible enemy. The League then “convinces” Sheridan of the lie that they need to be protected from the invisible enemy by telling them the truth: that raiding parties and Drakh have begun incursions into League territory; which is exactly what Sheridan was trying to protect them from!
Textbook military deception. Not so much on lying as it is presenting truths in a way that suggest a lie.
the reason it had to be done is because they refused to see the logic of having the rangers operate in their borders
@@toomanyaccounts Well he also wanted total authority to do so...
This show was very underrated and unappreciated. It had great plots and writers
@Sean Murphy, The show's creator wrote I believe all but maybe 10 episodes of the whole series
@@dragonson72 And Tony Dow (Wally from Leave it to Beaver) directed several episodes.
When in negotiations, make the other side think you're working from a position of weakness... all the while you're maneuvering them into what you want.
I think the best part (leading up to this) is when Sheridan is talking to Londo, telling him to keep denying anything happened, as it is the truth that nothing happened at all, lol, that scene was funny
Well, the scene where Londo was insulting the Drazi ambassador was enjoyable too, and I think it was especially for Londo.
"Oh, yes, the Maker has gifted us with great big eyes, and great big scanners, and great big... well, never mind that."
@@JamaicanCastle With the drazi gesturing "Yes, and 'great big' what?"
Looks like those Vorlon lessons paid off
God I love this show. Years ago I was able to buy all four seasons on DVD for an absurdly low price (~$20 a piece if memory serves) at the local Best Buy. Best day ever.
I’m pretty sure there’s 5 seasons.
@@scottstefanik6324 Yup, 5 seasons + movies. 6 sets overall.
I remember this episode. Especially earlier when he figured out how to get the others to join. Sitting drinking something and the idea came to him after he left laughing Ivanava checked his drink .
And the best part as he progressed his plan, he didn't even tell his inner circle about it.
This is one of my favourite moments in the show actually I have quite a lot of favourite moments from this show but it’s so well set up using there own negative traces to get what he wants.
wisdom of the Vorlon Kosh would be so proud!
"Never believe government rumours until it's been officially denied." - Jim Hacker
This was a good episode. Sheridan was so frustrated at trying to convince the other races to "accept" help, then switched to a passive denial of services tactic so it appears to the be their idea to "demand" his assistance. The key was that "nothing" happened in some sector, which sowed the idea that "something" did and it was being covered up (the usual diplomatic distrust, everyone lies, thought process).
Such a good episode. I remember watching and the whole time thinking "Sheridan's picked up a few tricks from Kosh's playbook." XD
Or Bugs Bunny? (Watching "Wabbit Season" with Garibaldi?)
Sheridan was such a great leader
Oh he was so much more than that....
Jason Wooster: Like a Stradavarias in the hands of a master.
"Got 'em!" -Sheridan, probably
Now that was an Herbal Essences "YES!"...
that Yes was EVERYTHING !
Always loved the black and silver uniform...Starwatch style.
They got played
For their own good, though.
Like a ukulele at an all night luau.
To quote Londo, "Like a puppet!!"
The League of Non-Aligned Worlds are notorious for being a quarrelsome bitchy bunch of big babies who rarely get anything done.
Sheridan did some reverse psychology and manipulated them without even trying, it was easy!
Never hustle a hustler
Sheridan ... Remembered as a 23rd century Sun Tzu
Sheridan after meeting with the League (thinking to himself): Keep calm, keep a straight face, and just how many of them do you think I outsmarted just now?
Also Sheridan after entering the elevator thinking no-one could hear him: YEEEEEEEEEESSSSS!
Sun Tzu would be proud of Sheridan.
He'd ask him to help write new chapters of the Art of War lol.
Diplomacy is the art of letting the other side have Your way
“Paint This Fence, Five Cents."
I loved this part. But you didn't show the lead up. Where they were all refusing to commit their forces, so he had the white stars shoot up a bunch of asteroids, to make it look like... Well you'd have to see it.
Shaddup! Those weren't asteroids, and they weren't shooting anything up. Didn't you hear Ivanovas newscast? Absolutely nothing happened!!!1!1!1 xD
"Shoot some asteroids... and then come back." The best part is you can see the wheels spinning as Marcus - who's a pretty tricky customer himself - tries to figure out what Sheridan's up to, and fails.
JamaicanCastle Marcus was one of my favorite characters. I loved when he was in the hospital bed after getting his ass kicked by Naroon. and Marcus says, 'Next time you want a revelation, could you possibly find a way that isn't quite so uncomfortable."
This was one of the most brilliant pieces of writing. He had the whole thing plotted out and we were all led by the nose until just about this scene. It was BRILLIANT
@Eric Taylor, The best way to get someone to listen is to say nothing, the best way for someone to see is be blind and the best way to lead is to become become lost
This show was so good that the cast was cursed to die young.
They say the candle that burns twice as bright burns twice as fast.
Never play Poker with this man.
I'd love to see a poker game between him and Will Riker.
@@Mark73 That would indeed be interesting...
@@Mark73 Add Sinclair while you're at it. Apparently he's a hell of a gambler.
Brilliant, he plants rumours and gossip then acts like he doesn't want to do the one thing he wants. They force him into doing the very thing they were vehemently opposed to at the start.
Diplomacy: the fine art of convincing your enemy that it’s in his best interest to slit his own throat
There will never be another show like Babylon 5 the story that makes you truly feel for each character a long lost art. For those who are still with us and those who have now gone on the great adventure to the outer rim thank you.
I know you say that but I am currently getting into Star Trek Deep Space 9 and this series here and… I want, no, I _need _more.
Please! Just me something… Give me hope.
I love the way they're all acting really political over an "invisible enemy" :D
We have spent the last twenty years of invisible enemy politics, whilst all the time losing our freedom
Sheridan actually said once(in shadow war-arc) that assemblying non-alingned worlds to a common cause was like trying to stack a bunch of marbles into a corner(granted, he found a way to convince them that time too)
That's easy, you just gotta tip the floor so they all roll toward the corner on their own.
@@darwinxavier3516 Which is exactly what Sheridan does.
They told him *snicker*
There were a lot of "Sheridan pulls a fast one" scenes and this was one of the better ones. Touched by Vorlons is probably the best IMO.
Ah the art of making people do what you want them to do whilst making them think it's all their idea
This is less Sheridan's smarts and more the age old maxim "intelligence has it's limits, stupidity is infinite."
"hectic day"
i should think everyday is hectic with the workload he must have. even before the bigger troubles started he's the governor/administrator of a station with a quarter of a million people, head of the not-insubstantial military forces of the station, and ambassador of earth's affairs on the diplomatic scene of b5 which is its whole reason for existing. really seems like a lot of heap on a guy, it should really be split up between half a dozen officials of more senior rank than sheridan or sinclair. he's basically king of his own small nation
Sheridan: YES
B5 crew: oh shit, move
I love how the green one ain't playin' with Sheridan. He's just barking out orders.
Green? Don't you mean... Purple?
He's not purple, *you're purple!*
He who takes green is green, he who takes purple is purple.
"YES!!"
~John Sheriden
Gawd I miss this show.
I remember the one guy responding with, “that is not that” to shridan, right after Sheridan said he could t do anything and that was that.
I loved the way the trolled the hell out of them. Talk about some serious statesmanship.
This is hilarious. A year ago I scoured the site for my Babylon 5 clips and most time left without. But now it's everywhere! Great show! Not bad for show that not even their parent company cared about kr supported!
League of Non-Aligned Worlds played themselves so hard.
Like the alien equivalent of a harp
But, the kicker is, they played themselves into a huge win. The benefits were enormous.
3:35 "The Captain got some those days again." "Yeah, let's go to work and pretend it never happend"^^
Pure pleasure to watch this scene. They beat their own game.😊
Has anyone thought that the "League" of Non-Aligned Worlds is an oxymoron: As a league, they would be aligned with each other!!
The League of Non-aligned Worlds is a reference to the RL "Non Aligned Movement" that existed during the Cold War for countries that didn't want to ally with either NATO or the Warsaw Pact
I would call this a comedy episode, by B5 standards, and it was quite possibly one of my favourite B5 episodes, and my favourite comedy episode of any series.
That is what I loved about B5. It had every aspect of life. Politics, religion, business, personal relationships. In short it was EPIC!
And did them all very well.
What I'm most impressed by is how he managed to keep a straight face the whole time.
sheridan using the wizards first rule : People are stupid. They believe things mainly because they either want them to be true or fear them to be true.
I love his deviousness!!!!! Genius!!!!
The fine art of diplomacy: getting the others to do what you want while they think they benefit.
That was such a awesome scene. Those idiots gave Sheridan exactly what he wanted. He played them perfectly. What a great show. Babylon 5 is a glimpse into our future
Course, in the end, the did learn to trust him, and that is why they demanded he be the president of the new Alliance later.
I loved this scene.
Oh no! Please don't toss me into the briar patch!
Dear Diary: The strangest thing happened today. I was bullied into getting what I want.
Now that this is on youtube. The league now knows exactly how Sheridan tricked them.
My top 3 sci-fi series Doctor Who (63-20??), Blake's 7, Babylon 5, I grew up with DW, then Blake came along with the gorgeous Avon, not forgetting Villa. Finally B5 came along with great characters, stories and villains you can really dislike Bester and Mr Morden. RIP to all those who left us, you'll never be forgotten.
And that YES yell waas icing on the cake.
One thing you can expect out of Sheridan is his great efficiency in using nukes ;) But he has brilliant non-violent strategies as well.
I loved this show
I like how the League of Non-Aligned Worlds just lose their heads just because there's a news saying there's nothing going on...
There were other factors - the White Stars were "on maneuvers" (blowing up asteroids) in that area, and Franklin had been told to ask them for more medical supplies "in case something comes up". But like all good paranoia gambits it was just enough to get them thinking about the worst that could happen, and get them to fill in the rest themselves.
After watching Babylon 5, I am not so excited about humans contacting aliens any more.We will remain the same shits and they would be just weird and that's that.
If we are "shits," and they are "weird," then some "weird shit" is going to go down and that I would love to see! Pardon the word play, I couldn't resist.
This time, there is no time traveling prophet velan, and the Minbari will wipe out human being. Its a good space run while it lasted, human.
The chances are that within the same race, there are aliens who are shits and aliens who are great people.
In order to achieve a technologically complex society, they will need to be able to cooperate, but to also be individual, and different from each other in nature.
They may look quite different from each other, or similar (from our point of view), afterall, there is more genetic diversity in one chimpanze troop than within the entire human race.
Bear in mind that there is also _Convergent Evolution,_ what works well in a given environment will work as well for an alien as it will for a human (hence the eye evolving numerous times on Earth), so aliens might not be quite so alien as we might imagine.
However, if we don't find any other civilisation in the galaxy, by the time humans have colonised it (assuming we manage that, rather than destroying ourselves), which, even at the achievable velocity of 20% light speed, would only take a few million years, due to long term separation and, almost certainly, genetic manipulation, our species will be several different species, who may well look alien to each other.
We would probably avoid the galactic core, due to heavier radiation there, and so, meeting on the far side, would definitely be the meeting of different species...
@@pineapplepenumbra Sounds like the Ur Quan and Kohr Ah.
@@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 They want to destroy all non Ur-Quan sentience? I'm not surprised that their name is virtually an anagram of qu'ran, with just a "u" left over.
Ghost Kosh: Ah, that's my boy.
This has *always* been one of my favorite scenes!!
They played right into his hands. He got what he wanted with even asking. Now that is smart.He will have the papers ready in the afternoon, bull. He had the papers ready days ago.
Well...yes, he WILL have the papers ready by late afternoon.
The fact that they are - even now - sitting in a drawer, in his desk, ready to be signed, is Totally Irrelevant - he is keeping his promise, yes siree!
And are you going to blame him for taking the afternoon off? He DESERVES it!
I just watched this episode. :) Watching the series again, in Season 5 now.
You have my condolances...
League ambassadors: we am der smartestest
Sheridan: dance little puppets, dance!
To quote another sci-fi franchise: “We are strong…”
Never even cracked a smile.
what's better than getting someone to agree with you
getting them to force you to do what you wanted to do in a way that benefits you
Always let them believe that they have won while you get what you want.
Always nice when you let others force you, to get your way. :)
There is nothing more satisfying in a negotiation than convincing someone to do something they were against from the start, whilst making them think it was their idea.
That depends on what you derive satisfaction from.
this is why you don't trust a politician willing to give you what you want .
They got played like puppets!!!
To borrow a line from another of my favorite series, "Pushing Daisies", "They got played like Booboo th' Fool!"
If you just listen to the audio then it sounds like Captain Sheridan is outsmarting a roomful of belligerent (and treacherous) klingons.
"See my not denying it doesn't make it true. Are you with me so far? So many things in the universe are, and so many aren't. If I tried to deny everything that isn't, we'd be here all day!"
Slick haired Brakiri bargain hard to be persuaded to join Alliance. Turn up, gorgeous looking ships are immediately vaporised by scary giant spiders without firing a shot. Again. Brakiri keep rocking the 90's hair at future conferences regardless of incredible failings.
Meanwhile Drazi Purple win hard fought right to seating preference in space station Zocolo coffee shops over Greens.
the best way to make someone do what you want is to steer them into thinking they came up with that idea themself ;) , classic!
That never get old...
3:08 - Please. He had those papers done and set up yesterday. 😂
when you trick them into forming the united federation of planets