Quick Correction: Grima did want Eowyn’s hand in marriage as will be later revealed in a future chapter. Although the scene in the movie is fabricated, it is there to represent this later point. Thanks to all who noticed this! 🫡 Teamwork makes the dreamwork.
One geographic continuty error that happens in the movie is in the famous (and memed) "They're taking the hobbits to Isengard" scene, Legolas says "The Uruks turn north-east." before his mentioned line. This is wrong as from where they are located, in the Eastemnet, not too far from Parth Galen and the Falls of Rauros, Isengard is actually south-west, NOT north-east.
It's kind of baffling that they'd include that line at all, since they're heading west, meaning the Uruk-hai would either have turned to the northwest if not simply just northward. The only way they would be turning east is if they ran right past Isengard and then made a u-turn for some reason.
@@MrJakeypakey To slightly play devil's advocate they would potentially have to go south-west to cross the fords of Isen and then turn directly north to get to Isengard. So a sharp turn isn't completely out of the question. But obviously we'd have to see them cross the river first so it still makes no sense.
@eddyd63 But still they have to go west and not east even if they crossed River Isen. It's only north and south that have been switched around AKA latitude, the longitude remains the same.
It is actually confirmed in the book that Wormtongue was after Eowyn. It is mentioned by Gandalf when he and the three companions confront Wormtongue and help Theoden.
Gríma did want Eowyn's hand in marriage, that's why he got into Saruman's service i the first place, though this is confirmed later after Théoden is healed from Saurman's inflence and he gives Wormtongue to either ride with him to war to prove his loyaltiy or to go back to his master Saruman. This is also the scene where Eomer's line "What was his promised prize, Gríma? When all the men are dead you get a part of the treasure?", though I forgot who says it in the book but it could be Aragorn, Théoden or Gandalf who says it.
Jackson is often on a hiding to nothing with the scenes in these movies. Purists critique him for removing scenes without thinking that the movies would end up being 9 hours long each. There was also criticism that the movies were too long. I feel he had to make intelligent compromises and he did well all things considered.
Having read the books at least 2 and maybe 3 times by the times the movies came out, I think he did the best he could with an impossibly long "script". He did the opposite with the Hobbit, stretching MAYBE 2 movies into 3. All In all I am not bitter, he did the best to give us Tolkein as he saw it.
No issue with taking stuff out, as film makers do that with adaptations all the time. Where I take issue with Jackson is when he then proceeds to add in about an hour of unneccessary filler, and when he also changes beloved characters for no reason whatsoever. It would be like if, in Shawshank Redemption, Darabont added 35 minutes of extra material unrelated to the original story, and made Andy Dufresne into an arrogant @$$hole to boot.
Some points here: First, I agree the condensed chase is good, and the areal landscape shots with the glorious fellowship theme music open up the whole movie in an awesome way, at the same time introducing the three characters into the Two Towers. Second, Eomer is hard done by both in terms of plot and screen time. A shame he was cut from all the Edoras and Helms Deep scenes. Third, in terms of location, the landscape of Rohan was supposed to be flat, not beautifully newzealandish.
As far as the flat plains go, I noticed that as well. Not sure why I didn’t mention it. Probably cause I actually like the New Zealand scenery anyway, so no complaints here. 😂
One important thing that was left out at the beginning, was that Aragorn says in the books that tracking these Uruk-Hai should not have been as difficult as it was proving to be. The trio realizes that Saruman is lending some sorcery to aid the Uruk-Hai in their speed and hindering the pursuers by producing a "weariness that is in the heart, and not the limb".
I assumed that a group of Rohan's men headed for Helm's Deep came by after the children rode off and took the mom with them. Remember, there were already a large number of people at Helm's Deep when the group from Edoras got there.
This makes sense! Especially in book format… I guess what I get hung up on for the film is that as the children are riding away they look back and the village is pretty much being burned down and plundered at that moment. So unless the Rohirrim showed up literally right when the scene cuts away, I don’t think they would have gotten there in time. Perhaps some of the villagers snuck off or hid in time and weren’t found. 👀
@@factorfantasyweekly Perhaps the reunion of mother and children could've also been a visual representation of Helm's Deep being a (or the only) place of hope and refuge against Isengard? "Even if there's not much hope, hope isn't completely gone" kind of thing.
@@factorfantasyweekly I always understood the scene as expressing that the women of Rohan are fighters, too, and many have shields and swords to use - which is certainly mentioned in the book. So the mother was almost certainly not alone, or defenceless, at that point. The destruction of the village probably means there was a fight in which some of those staying to defend it were slain, but others would have escaped the slaughter and found their way to Helm's Deep after fighting a rearguard action. We're shown a snippet of one of the survivors, rather than one who fell, because that is the style of storytelling common in Hollywood movies.
Gríma very much had his eye on Éowyn in the book as well. From Chapter 6: The King of the Golden Hall: “'Nay, Éomer, you do not fully understand the mind of Master Wormtongue,’ said Gandalf, turning his piercing glance upon him. ‘He is bold and cunning. Even now he plays a game with peril and wins a throw. Hours of my precious time he has wasted already. Down, snake!’ he said suddenly in a terrible voice. ‘Down on your belly! How long is it since Saruman bought you? What was the promised price? When all the men were dead, you were to pick your share of the treasure, and take the woman you desire? Too long have you watched her under your eyelids and haunted her steps.’ Éomer grasped his sword. ‘That I knew already,’ he muttered. ‘For that reason I would have slain him before, forgetting the law of the hall. But there are other reasons.’ He stepped forward, but Gandalf stayed him with his hand. ‘Éowyn is safe now,’ he said. ‘But you, Wormtongue, you have done what you could for your true master. Some reward you have earned at least. Yet Saruman is apt to overlook his bargains. I should advise you to go quickly and remind him, lest he forget your faithful service.'"
You've got me hooked on this journey with you, man. Great job. Your videos are edited and put together very well! Hope to see this channel continue to rise in the fantasy scene!
There might be one timeline change in PJ's The Two Towers. Aragorn tells Eowyn that he is 87 years old. Either: A) The Three Hunters encounter Gandalf the White and reach Edoras before the beginning of March (March 1st being Aragorn's birthday) or B) Peter Jackson has outright changed Aragorn's age, making him 86 years old when he meets Frodo in Bree. Come to think of it, this is really a timeline change either way, isn't it?
Aragorn would have turned 87 in 3018 when the "Great Years" began. Then he turned 88 the next year on the day he met Gandalf the White. So Jackson probably figured out that he was 87 when the movie began and didn't take into account that a new year had started, especially since the new year began during their stay in Rivendell, which Jackson sped up for the movie.
A marathon is 26 miles. Aragorn and Legolas managing to run over 5 marathons during a three day period is... understandable, given the power of elves. But Gimli? Surprised he didn't drop dead halfway through the first day, especially with all that armor.
While the kids that is sent away by their mom when the Wildmen and Uruks attack Westfold, are made up for the movie (as well as their mom), the boy and the mom's names does come from the books. The boy is named Éothain, which is one of Eomer's men who is surrounding Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli in the upcoming chapters, while the mom is named Morwen (though her name isn't mentioned in the movie, she is listed in the credits, like with Lurtz), who was Théoden's mother (there's also another Morwen in The First Age, mentioned in The Silmarillion).
@@factorfantasyweekly Only half-good. Éothain is a Rohirric name but Morwen is not, Théoden's mother was from Gondor. Rohirric commoners picking names of foreign-born royalty is highly unlikely.
I'm not too worried upset that Peter Jackson did the hunt across Rohan the way he did it. However, I thought I should let you know you were mistaken about Grima's interest in Eowyn being made up. In the chapter "The King of the Golden Hall," Gandalf says to Grima, "How long is it since Saruman bought you? What was the promised price? When all the men were dead, you were to pick your share of the treasure, and take the woman you desire? Too long have you watched her under your eyelids and haunted her steps." Eomer then states he was ready to slay Grima for his interest in the princess, the Marshal's sister.
I agree, the entire hunt would have not worked in the movie, just like the scenes of Sam & Frodo in the Emyn Muil would have been unnecessary and too drawn for a film adaption.
The one major complaint that I have about PJ's version is that he removed relationship development between Eomer and Theoden. I love that part from the book where Theoden says something like "I'm going to call you my son from now on". And I'm pretty sure that this is right after he released him from the jail. (Unfortunately my mother don't want to give me my books back, so I can't check that myself). And also that scene when he signals that Eomer will be his heir to the throne. Just how loyal Eomer was to both Rohan and Theoden when he wasn't under the influence of Saruman and wormtongue and didn't held any grudges towards Theoden for locking him up in jail... Well, at least PJ kept his relationship with Eowyn in the films.
Loving these, thank you! I’m rereading the book and so confused as to why I’m seeing Saruman confronted in the Two Towers sectionby Gandalf when I’m sure it was from ROTK in the film? And he doesn’t die by Wormtongue 😮
@MissGelly, in both the film and the book, he does get killed by Wormtongue but the locations are different. I won't spoil the book version too much but the context is about the same, Saruman abuses him and something in Wormtongue snaps, he attacks Saruman.
Cutting the chase was definitely the right choice, though I would have preferred if the cuts showed the passage of time more (but that is a constant issue with the trilogy). Removing Pippin's agency is a much worse offense, and other changes and unnecessary additions begin to pile up. The two children are just cheap, clichéd, saccharine plot device. It's 125 miles from Isen to Edoras, a message of such importance would require a tough courier with great stamina to ever hope to reach the place at a time when it would still be relevant. Those children needed to go to Edoras so that Éowyn could be mothering them (because that's what the highest-ranking women at court totally do) and later provide that implausible, tear-jerking reunion. Also, Théodred: book Théodred is Éomer's senior by over a decade, a man grown and an accomplished warrior, not a kid barely out of his teens. This is probably not an important change but I don't understand why they didn't cast someone more age-fitting. In connection with the overdone change to Théoden's exterior, it looked especially jarring.
I didn’t like most of the changes here. Cutting down the length of the description of the chase is one thing but the key events both from Merry and Pipin’s perspective and those of Aragorn et al could have been shown by dropping the pointlessly confusing depiction of Saruman building up an army in days which in the story is of stage and takes years (the rebuilding of Isengard is complete when Gandalf arrives the previous summer). The only thing we really need, and are missing, is the clash between the orc scouts and the Eastfold scouts as part of the Merry/Pippin sequence. If Jackson really wanted to show something going on in Rohan then it should have been Eomer receiving his scouts report and a clash with Theoden/Wormtounge over his plan to respond to the orcs. All we need of the death of Theodred is a mention in a conversation. The power dynamics between Theoden/Eomer/Wormtounge needed far more subtle and creative handling in a way that such a limited director as Jackson just can’t handle even though his actors could.
I didn’t like most of the changes here. Cutting down the length of the description of the chase is one thing but the key events both from Merry and Pipin’s perspective and those of Aragorn et al could have been shown by dropping the pointlessly confusing depiction of Saruman building up an army in days which in the story is of stage and takes years (the rebuilding of Isengard is complete when Gandalf arrives the previous summer). The only thing we really need, and are missing, is the clash between the orc scouts and the Eastfold scouts as part of the Merry/Pippin sequence. If Jackson really wanted to show something going on in Rohan then it should have been Eomer receiving his scouts report and a clash with Theoden/Wormtounge over his plan to respond to the orcs. All we need of the death of Theodred is a mention in a conversation. The power dynamics between Theoden/Eomer/Wormtounge needed far more subtle and creative handling in a way that such a limited director as Jackson just can’t handle even though his actors could.
No changes were an improvement. Needed through budget constraints but diminishing none the less. The movies were decent given the context but in no way a match for the books.
the actors for legolas, aragorn and gimli were also wounded during shooting, viggo with his broken toe after punting an orcs head (the one we see in the film is when he breaks his foot), orlando with cracked ribs after he fell off a horse and the scale double for gimli had a dislocated knee so its understandable why there were a lot less shots of the chase
I will never get Audible because of what Amazon currently is doing to the Rings of Power. But, with that said, great content. Been watching every episode with great enjoyment.
Yea Peter Jackson and his team did a great job for what they had to do. Cutting down such an awesome story to a manageable screen time must have been nearly impossible!
It is weird. The Rohirrim are said in the books not to keep written histories, but preserve their past in song. I suppose they could have picked up some system of written law from Gondor over the years, but it is unlikely.
Little to none. Having Éomer jailed like in the books and then, say, secretly released by Éowyn and accompanied by his faithful to exile would have made more sense. It would also give Éowyn something in-character to do, instead of mothering the two kids and cooking terrible dinners.
Most of the changes are pretty understandable. A lot of people seem to get pretty upset over everything they did to faramir. For me though the change that bothered me the most was denethor. Hes so much more interesting, cunning and complex a character. In the movies he's reduced down to some crazy dude from the start.
thank you for this vid! i was THRILLED that Jackson decided to flesh out Saruman's story and make him a major character. I also loved Gimli giving a bit of comic relief. The story is dark and depressing and dreary ( in a good to watch read way hahaha!) but i really loved having Gimli lighten up the mood in the movie, but still being a strong fighter and warrior.
having scenes from the villains point of view is a movie thing. A good portion of literature is from one character's perspective, meaning you don't get to see the villains point of view. exceptions are like the opening of "goblet of fire" where Harry is seeing a vision from Nagisa's point of view. I believe it is both necessary to add these scenes when you adapt a book to a movie and a valuable skill for a writer/director. In the books they had chapters where Gandalf told Frodo what happened while he was away and in the movies those stories were accompanied by footage of what he was talking about. but why have so much of the story only occur in flashbacks after it is done. Why not just remove the flashback and show it in real time as it was happening.
"Almost no forms of literature has chapters from the villains point of view" This is not true at all. There are many, many books which describe what villains are doing, or even give insight to what they are thinking. It is very common in thrillers and detective stories (not 'whodunit' type of stories but modern crime novels often describe the criminal's point of view). I haven't read much fantasy since I was a child, but even then I remember many fantasy novels with villain POV, such as Artemis Fowl and Redwall novels. You mentioned Harry Potter, even that series has more than one scene like that: the 5th book has many dreams/visions where Harry sees Voldemort's mind, and in the 6th or 7th book there's a straight up scene (not a dream etc, Harry isn't present) where Voldemort and his minions are discussing. Definitely not a movie only thing
I've read plenty of novels over the years which switch to a villain's point of view for some sections (not sure whether those were entire chapters or not, though). It's also extremely common to switch to the villain's point of view for a while in comic books, which are still a form of literature.
Quick Correction: Grima did want Eowyn’s hand in marriage as will be later revealed in a future chapter. Although the scene in the movie is fabricated, it is there to represent this later point. Thanks to all who noticed this! 🫡 Teamwork makes the dreamwork.
One geographic continuty error that happens in the movie is in the famous (and memed) "They're taking the hobbits to Isengard" scene, Legolas says "The Uruks turn north-east." before his mentioned line. This is wrong as from where they are located, in the Eastemnet, not too far from Parth Galen and the Falls of Rauros, Isengard is actually south-west, NOT north-east.
It's kind of baffling that they'd include that line at all, since they're heading west, meaning the Uruk-hai would either have turned to the northwest if not simply just northward. The only way they would be turning east is if they ran right past Isengard and then made a u-turn for some reason.
@@MrJakeypakey To slightly play devil's advocate they would potentially have to go south-west to cross the fords of Isen and then turn directly north to get to Isengard. So a sharp turn isn't completely out of the question. But obviously we'd have to see them cross the river first so it still makes no sense.
In which case it becomes inexplicable that they end up on the outskirts of Fangorn ;)
@eddyd63 But still they have to go west and not east even if they crossed River Isen. It's only north and south that have been switched around AKA latitude, the longitude remains the same.
@@MrJakeypakey @mevb Yer it doesn't work in reality, I don't even get why that error occurred
It is actually confirmed in the book that Wormtongue was after Eowyn. It is mentioned by Gandalf when he and the three companions confront Wormtongue and help Theoden.
Thanks for pointing this out!
Gríma did want Eowyn's hand in marriage, that's why he got into Saruman's service i the first place, though this is confirmed later after Théoden is healed from Saurman's inflence and he gives Wormtongue to either ride with him to war to prove his loyaltiy or to go back to his master Saruman. This is also the scene where Eomer's line "What was his promised prize, Gríma? When all the men are dead you get a part of the treasure?", though I forgot who says it in the book but it could be Aragorn, Théoden or Gandalf who says it.
If anyone is interested, after they release the Hunt For Gollum they will release its immediate sequel The Hunt For Farmer Maggot's Lost Carrots.
A better idea would be the hunt for Bill the Pony.
Both please
Jackson is often on a hiding to nothing with the scenes in these movies. Purists critique him for removing scenes without thinking that the movies would end up being 9 hours long each. There was also criticism that the movies were too long. I feel he had to make intelligent compromises and he did well all things considered.
Having read the books at least 2 and maybe 3 times by the times the movies came out, I think he did the best he could with an impossibly long "script". He did the opposite with the Hobbit, stretching MAYBE 2 movies into 3. All In all I am not bitter, he did the best to give us Tolkein as he saw it.
@@gregmason2434 I can't agree more
No issue with taking stuff out, as film makers do that with adaptations all the time. Where I take issue with Jackson is when he then proceeds to add in about an hour of unneccessary filler, and when he also changes beloved characters for no reason whatsoever. It would be like if, in Shawshank Redemption, Darabont added 35 minutes of extra material unrelated to the original story, and made Andy Dufresne into an arrogant @$$hole to boot.
They removed 90% of it probably because Viggo broke his foot kicking a helm.
Some points here:
First, I agree the condensed chase is good, and the areal landscape shots with the glorious fellowship theme music open up the whole movie in an awesome way, at the same time introducing the three characters into the Two Towers.
Second, Eomer is hard done by both in terms of plot and screen time. A shame he was cut from all the Edoras and Helms Deep scenes.
Third, in terms of location, the landscape of Rohan was supposed to be flat, not beautifully newzealandish.
As far as the flat plains go, I noticed that as well. Not sure why I didn’t mention it. Probably cause I actually like the New Zealand scenery anyway, so no complaints here. 😂
One important thing that was left out at the beginning, was that Aragorn says in the books that tracking these Uruk-Hai should not have been as difficult as it was proving to be. The trio realizes that Saruman is lending some sorcery to aid the Uruk-Hai in their speed and hindering the pursuers by producing a "weariness that is in the heart, and not the limb".
Wonderful Informative videos on Lord of the rings. Keep it up🙏
Thanks for watching!
I assumed that a group of Rohan's men headed for Helm's Deep came by after the children rode off and took the mom with them. Remember, there were already a large number of people at Helm's Deep when the group from Edoras got there.
This makes sense! Especially in book format… I guess what I get hung up on for the film is that as the children are riding away they look back and the village is pretty much being burned down and plundered at that moment. So unless the Rohirrim showed up literally right when the scene cuts away, I don’t think they would have gotten there in time. Perhaps some of the villagers snuck off or hid in time and weren’t found. 👀
@@factorfantasyweekly Perhaps the reunion of mother and children could've also been a visual representation of Helm's Deep being a (or the only) place of hope and refuge against Isengard? "Even if there's not much hope, hope isn't completely gone" kind of thing.
Wasn't there a mention in the additional "making of" material on the dvds that there was an incident involved with the blazing village.
@@factorfantasyweekly I always understood the scene as expressing that the women of Rohan are fighters, too, and many have shields and swords to use - which is certainly mentioned in the book. So the mother was almost certainly not alone, or defenceless, at that point. The destruction of the village probably means there was a fight in which some of those staying to defend it were slain, but others would have escaped the slaughter and found their way to Helm's Deep after fighting a rearguard action. We're shown a snippet of one of the survivors, rather than one who fell, because that is the style of storytelling common in Hollywood movies.
Gríma very much had his eye on Éowyn in the book as well. From Chapter 6: The King of the Golden Hall:
“'Nay, Éomer, you do not fully understand the mind of Master Wormtongue,’ said Gandalf, turning his piercing glance upon him. ‘He is bold and cunning. Even now he plays a game with peril and wins a throw. Hours of my precious time he has wasted already. Down, snake!’ he said suddenly in a terrible voice. ‘Down on your belly! How long is it since Saruman bought you? What was the promised price? When all the men were dead, you were to pick your share of the treasure, and take the woman you desire? Too long have you watched her under your eyelids and haunted her steps.’
Éomer grasped his sword. ‘That I knew already,’ he muttered. ‘For that reason I would have slain him before, forgetting the law of the hall. But there are other reasons.’ He stepped forward, but Gandalf stayed him with his hand.
‘Éowyn is safe now,’ he said. ‘But you, Wormtongue, you have done what you could for your true master. Some reward you have earned at least. Yet Saruman is apt to overlook his bargains. I should advise you to go quickly and remind him, lest he forget your faithful service.'"
Karl Urban played Eomer Perfectly.
You've got me hooked on this journey with you, man.
Great job. Your videos are edited and put together very well! Hope to see this channel continue to rise in the fantasy scene!
Thanks for your support! Welcome aboard. 🫡
There might be one timeline change in PJ's The Two Towers. Aragorn tells Eowyn that he is 87 years old. Either: A) The Three Hunters encounter Gandalf the White and reach Edoras before the beginning of March (March 1st being Aragorn's birthday) or B) Peter Jackson has outright changed Aragorn's age, making him 86 years old when he meets Frodo in Bree. Come to think of it, this is really a timeline change either way, isn't it?
Aragorn would have turned 87 in 3018 when the "Great Years" began. Then he turned 88 the next year on the day he met Gandalf the White. So Jackson probably figured out that he was 87 when the movie began and didn't take into account that a new year had started, especially since the new year began during their stay in Rivendell, which Jackson sped up for the movie.
@@Agatha-s4h Technically, the Fellowship had already departed from Rivendell (on 25 December) when the new year began.
So what I get out of it is…
They’re taking the Hobbits to Isengard.
Your videos are very well produced! Stylish and subtle.
And the details you go into are great 👍🏻
Thanks. Next episode please.
Thanks for supporting! There’s plenty to binge if you’re new to the series 👀 check out the playlist.
A marathon is 26 miles. Aragorn and Legolas managing to run over 5 marathons during a three day period is... understandable, given the power of elves. But Gimli? Surprised he didn't drop dead halfway through the first day, especially with all that armor.
Yea I’m not sure how he survived. 😂
Dwarves are very resilient. Aulë made them like this to endure Melkor's attacks.
While the kids that is sent away by their mom when the Wildmen and Uruks attack Westfold, are made up for the movie (as well as their mom), the boy and the mom's names does come from the books. The boy is named Éothain, which is one of Eomer's men who is surrounding Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli in the upcoming chapters, while the mom is named Morwen (though her name isn't mentioned in the movie, she is listed in the credits, like with Lurtz), who was Théoden's mother (there's also another Morwen in The First Age, mentioned in The Silmarillion).
Well that’s good they at least used authentic names!
@@factorfantasyweekly Only half-good. Éothain is a Rohirric name but Morwen is not, Théoden's mother was from Gondor. Rohirric commoners picking names of foreign-born royalty is highly unlikely.
The best Trilly ever!!!
very based video
I'm not too worried upset that Peter Jackson did the hunt across Rohan the way he did it. However, I thought I should let you know you were mistaken about Grima's interest in Eowyn being made up. In the chapter "The King of the Golden Hall," Gandalf says to Grima, "How long is it since Saruman bought you? What was the promised price? When all the men were dead, you were to pick your share of the treasure, and take the woman you desire? Too long have you watched her under your eyelids and haunted her steps." Eomer then states he was ready to slay Grima for his interest in the princess, the Marshal's sister.
I agree, the entire hunt would have not worked in the movie, just like the scenes of Sam & Frodo in the Emyn Muil would have been unnecessary and too drawn for a film adaption.
The one major complaint that I have about PJ's version is that he removed relationship development between Eomer and Theoden. I love that part from the book where Theoden says something like "I'm going to call you my son from now on". And I'm pretty sure that this is right after he released him from the jail. (Unfortunately my mother don't want to give me my books back, so I can't check that myself). And also that scene when he signals that Eomer will be his heir to the throne. Just how loyal Eomer was to both Rohan and Theoden when he wasn't under the influence of Saruman and wormtongue and didn't held any grudges towards Theoden for locking him up in jail... Well, at least PJ kept his relationship with Eowyn in the films.
Loving these, thank you! I’m rereading the book and so confused as to why I’m seeing Saruman confronted in the Two Towers sectionby Gandalf when I’m sure it was from ROTK in the film? And he doesn’t die by Wormtongue 😮
Oh yea… once we get to that part there’s gonna be a LOT to unpack. 😂 Thanks for watching!
@@factorfantasyweekly I was about to comment on that whole kerfuffle, but if you're covering it in a future vid I'll say no more.
Oh yea, we’re going scene by scene through ALL the movies! 👀 So we’ll get there.
@MissGelly, in both the film and the book, he does get killed by Wormtongue but the locations are different. I won't spoil the book version too much but the context is about the same, Saruman abuses him and something in Wormtongue snaps, he attacks Saruman.
Cutting the chase was definitely the right choice, though I would have preferred if the cuts showed the passage of time more (but that is a constant issue with the trilogy). Removing Pippin's agency is a much worse offense, and other changes and unnecessary additions begin to pile up. The two children are just cheap, clichéd, saccharine plot device. It's 125 miles from Isen to Edoras, a message of such importance would require a tough courier with great stamina to ever hope to reach the place at a time when it would still be relevant. Those children needed to go to Edoras so that Éowyn could be mothering them (because that's what the highest-ranking women at court totally do) and later provide that implausible, tear-jerking reunion.
Also, Théodred: book Théodred is Éomer's senior by over a decade, a man grown and an accomplished warrior, not a kid barely out of his teens. This is probably not an important change but I don't understand why they didn't cast someone more age-fitting. In connection with the overdone change to Théoden's exterior, it looked especially jarring.
I didn’t like most of the changes here. Cutting down the length of the description of the chase is one thing but the key events both from Merry and Pipin’s perspective and those of Aragorn et al could have been shown by dropping the pointlessly confusing depiction of Saruman building up an army in days which in the story is of stage and takes years (the rebuilding of Isengard is complete when Gandalf arrives the previous summer). The only thing we really need, and are missing, is the clash between the orc scouts and the Eastfold scouts as part of the Merry/Pippin sequence. If Jackson really wanted to show something going on in Rohan then it should have been Eomer receiving his scouts report and a clash with Theoden/Wormtounge over his plan to respond to the orcs. All we need of the death of Theodred is a mention in a conversation. The power dynamics between Theoden/Eomer/Wormtounge needed far more subtle and creative handling in a way that such a limited director as Jackson just can’t handle even though his actors could.
I didn’t like most of the changes here. Cutting down the length of the description of the chase is one thing but the key events both from Merry and Pipin’s perspective and those of Aragorn et al could have been shown by dropping the pointlessly confusing depiction of Saruman building up an army in days which in the story is of stage and takes years (the rebuilding of Isengard is complete when Gandalf arrives the previous summer). The only thing we really need, and are missing, is the clash between the orc scouts and the Eastfold scouts as part of the Merry/Pippin sequence. If Jackson really wanted to show something going on in Rohan then it should have been Eomer receiving his scouts report and a clash with Theoden/Wormtounge over his plan to respond to the orcs. All we need of the death of Theodred is a mention in a conversation. The power dynamics between Theoden/Eomer/Wormtounge needed far more subtle and creative handling in a way that such a limited director as Jackson just can’t handle even though his actors could.
No changes were an improvement. Needed through budget constraints but diminishing none the less. The movies were decent given the context but in no way a match for the books.
the actors for legolas, aragorn and gimli were also wounded during shooting, viggo with his broken toe after punting an orcs head (the one we see in the film is when he breaks his foot), orlando with cracked ribs after he fell off a horse and the scale double for gimli had a dislocated knee so its understandable why there were a lot less shots of the chase
finally caught up, don't know what to do with myself now..
About the kids, the little girl says the brother isn’t to ride the big horse. Implying there are other horses they can ride.
I think they had the paded the movie so they show you what they describe in the book but actually show you what happen
How do you pronounce Éomer again?
"Dave"
AY-oh-mer
Homer
I learn a lot from these videos 😊
Nothing is better than Tolkiens story
Which version of the film are you comparing? The theatrical release or one of the extended editions?
Extended only! The extended editions are the only right way to do it. 👀 They’re pretty much the only ones available to watch nowadays.
8:35 NOOOOOO MY PRECIOUS!!
I will never get Audible because of what Amazon currently is doing to the Rings of Power. But, with that said, great content. Been watching every episode with great enjoyment.
11:38 Uhm... Yes.
Based!!!
Its crazy how much has to change in these movie adaptations! It is probably really difficult to do so!
Yea Peter Jackson and his team did a great job for what they had to do. Cutting down such an awesome story to a manageable screen time must have been nearly impossible!
@@factorfantasyweekly true!
Grima holding the signed warrant is an odd moment - how much of a paper based beurocracy are the Rohirrim expected to have, exactly???
It is weird. The Rohirrim are said in the books not to keep written histories, but preserve their past in song. I suppose they could have picked up some system of written law from Gondor over the years, but it is unlikely.
@@LordVulcanus747 I suspect it was just there as visual shorthand, with little more thought put into it
Interesting point… 😂 never thought of it
Little to none. Having Éomer jailed like in the books and then, say, secretly released by Éowyn and accompanied by his faithful to exile would have made more sense. It would also give Éowyn something in-character to do, instead of mothering the two kids and cooking terrible dinners.
@LordVulcanus747 now I want to see a version where Grima has to sing the banishment to solidify it.
You changed the title and thumbnail already, or did a video disappear from my feed before I opened it?
I usually test a few different versions in the first few hours to see what resonates best!
@@factorfantasyweekly O.k., I admit to being a bit worried I missed something.
Most of the changes are pretty understandable. A lot of people seem to get pretty upset over everything they did to faramir. For me though the change that bothered me the most was denethor. Hes so much more interesting, cunning and complex a character. In the movies he's reduced down to some crazy dude from the start.
Gimli was turned from poetic philosopher to comedy relief. If all the races the dwarfs were never done well by Jackson
these videos are dope
Thanks for watching!
This channel is dope. I forgot how much I loved these films. Really need to see the extended additions.
The extended editions are a must! 🙏🏼
It is the only way to watch the movies. You'll never go back!
thank you for this vid! i was THRILLED that Jackson decided to flesh out Saruman's story and make him a major character. I also loved Gimli giving a bit of comic relief. The story is dark and depressing and dreary ( in a good to watch read way hahaha!) but i really loved having Gimli lighten up the mood in the movie, but still being a strong fighter and warrior.
Getting to see more of the great Christopher Lee was incredible!
Made him a major character, only to kill him off in a totally unceremonious fashion before the end of the story.
having scenes from the villains point of view is a movie thing. A good portion of literature is from one character's perspective, meaning you don't get to see the villains point of view.
exceptions are like the opening of "goblet of fire" where Harry is seeing a vision from Nagisa's point of view.
I believe it is both necessary to add these scenes when you adapt a book to a movie and a valuable skill for a writer/director. In the books they had chapters where Gandalf told Frodo what happened while he was away and in the movies those stories were accompanied by footage of what he was talking about. but why have so much of the story only occur in flashbacks after it is done. Why not just remove the flashback and show it in real time as it was happening.
Agreed! A lot of these scenes are necessary to fill the viewer in on details we wouldn’t otherwise have. It avoids confusion later on.
"Almost no forms of literature has chapters from the villains point of view" This is not true at all. There are many, many books which describe what villains are doing, or even give insight to what they are thinking. It is very common in thrillers and detective stories (not 'whodunit' type of stories but modern crime novels often describe the criminal's point of view). I haven't read much fantasy since I was a child, but even then I remember many fantasy novels with villain POV, such as Artemis Fowl and Redwall novels. You mentioned Harry Potter, even that series has more than one scene like that: the 5th book has many dreams/visions where Harry sees Voldemort's mind, and in the 6th or 7th book there's a straight up scene (not a dream etc, Harry isn't present) where Voldemort and his minions are discussing. Definitely not a movie only thing
I've read plenty of novels over the years which switch to a villain's point of view for some sections (not sure whether those were entire chapters or not, though). It's also extremely common to switch to the villain's point of view for a while in comic books, which are still a form of literature.
Thank you for spreading Tolkien's lore. As great as the movies are... the lore is way much better. Totally.
Peter Jackson was there to make a movie. He did a great job. And in this house, he's a hero, end of story!