Given all the bootleg stuff that you have found so far....I would go ahead and pull the motor out because there's no telling what else has been done to the lower end.... In my opinion just pull it and start all over
Who knows how much damage the oozing sillycon has done to oil galleries and the lubrication system in general. From the looks of the valves and piston tops I believe he has an oil burner on his hands. Rings, bore and Valve guides. Need a good truck cam to haul that '64... it's a boat. I'm reliving a 55 year old nightmare from when I was 16.
Agree .. If they muffed the lifters that bad.. Did they do better on the bottom end? Doesn't have to be true.. They coulda gotten a shortblock from a machine shop. Would still be good to blue print the bottom.
@@orionfixr7713 You don't need lead. Hardened seats help but the most important thing is to run the fuel octane you car needs. Leaded or unleaded 100 octane is 100 octane. If you need 93 and you run 87 this will happen. The lower octane fuel creates detonation as well as raise the combustion temperatures. With the higher temps the exhaust valve starts welding itself to the seat. These micro-welds are broken every time the valve lifts off of the seat taking apart of the seat with it. Run the correct octane and make sure your timing is right because detonation kills all engines. This is why you have to check your dynamic compression ratio and make sure your engine will be ok with the fuel you have available. Most octane boosters and lead additives are snake oil. So it's hard to even begin pointing someone in the right direction for those.
@@number3665 Thanks ! I have a '60 T-Bird with a 352 and it seems to run great on 93 octane and no additives but I was afraid I was screwing up the valves with no lead .
Craig, I work in auto machine shop, the fe heads are bad to do that. Seats are worn out and valves are pulled up into head and will stand open when rocker arm is torqued down. Looks like it needs a full set of exhaust seats.The heads you reworked are not going to last long.The one with the stuck valve is galled to valve guide. The fe engine is a exspensive engine to build correctly. Because you have a lot invested in just the heads. I hope the best for you
After lapping your valves, take some brake clean and spray it on top of the intake and exhaust valves, and look on the combustion side, to see if it's leaking around the face of the valve. With the heads off like that, you can take a known good flat file and run it over the combustion and intake side to see if it's warped...
At 9:05, with your rocker arm assemblies removed, and all of the valves are up, or in the closed position, I would have liked to have seen you do a cylinder leakage test. And now that the valves are closed, you can put compressed air into the cylinders, and listen at the carburetor and tailpipe, and tell if it's the intake or an exhaust valve problem, before getting in too deep. Also have a radiator pressure tester attached to the radiator, and see if the pressure rises once you inject compressed air, this will tell you if it's a head gasket. Listening at the PVC, and hearing the woosh of air, will tell you if the rings are broken or frozen. You can do this on a static engine *BEFORE* you buy it. I just want the young guns to see this, to help them diagnose.
Joe Schlotthauer I have used that method for 40 years to check engines. Best method ever. I have ended many a car purchase by friends and customers after finding problems doing that.
Id be taking that motor out and checking it. The level of butchery on the valve train is epic. And my mind is on all that metal thats missing from the cam and lifters. ( bearings would be toast) I would also up grade to a small roller cam. With zink slowly dissapearing from even classic oils. A bit of future proofing
If you've had this many problems with the top end, I can't imagine what you're going to find with the lower end. It just stands to reason. I would say pull the block right now and pull the pan. Don't wait till you have it all back together. "That" would be a mistake on you.
Yup....she be tired!! Sunken valves, dead cam...not a good combo, but very common on the old engines. I have 3 sets of early 289 heads that look just like it. Glad you got it figured out! Never know what you'll find when you open one up!
Oh,they knew exactly what they were doing,I've seen it done over and over before,build a POS out of scrap and sell it off as a freshly rebuilt engine,it's an old scam.
Why it's very important to have valve springs set up to correct pressures and heights. My 428cj had one side literally driving the other side because of different valve spring pressures and heights.
Not bashin you, but don't say you rebuilt those heads. Rebuilding the heads include valve guides, valve seats, valve seals, grinding and finishing valves, decking the head surface, and of course new parts if necessary. I think "refreshed" or "freshened up" is better, and of course being honest about everything that's been done. That's how you ended up with a "rebuilt" motor that's mostly junk, because someone said it was a built or rebuilt motor. Only the person who worked on it/ owns it knows what has been done. Main point is that if it's not new or machined and done 100% it's not rebuilt. Again not bashin you, a lot of people do the same thing. Sometimes people take advantage of words to sell something and it's not the whole or real story and people who don't know any better get screwed over because the classic they bought had a "rebuilt" motor. Also on a side note I refreshed recently a sbc 350. new gaskets everywhere except head gaskets. All seals everywhere new valve covers, timing cover, oil pan, rear main, oil pump, intake, carb, distributor, water pump.... basically everything you can do without getting into the internals, other than the oil pump and timing chain set, that was just for peace of mind, as it's a good motor it just needed fresh seals and some love. But even that's not a "rebuilt" motor, no machining work or anything like that. Just to make it functional and last as long as possible on a budget getting a project going. So definitely not bashing you because I freshen up stuff as well, I'm not made of money either and have to get creative every now and then. Just be honest is the main thing I suppose.
You are spot on. However, I did much the same thing when I first started turning wrenches. It was the classic case of unconscious incompetence; I didn't know what I didn't know. The funny thing is that most of the time things worked fairly well.
I had my LS3 refreshed last year. All new bearings, seals, rings, Melling HV oil pump, gaskets, cylinder liners honed, lifters, new cam, valve seals, springs and hardware, timing chain and upper gear, heads milled .015 - I am still reluctant to call it rebuilt as the crank and pistons were untouched and reused, the bores were lightly honed, and the valve guides and seats were left alone. Would you consider this refreshed or rebuilt?
InFiD3ViL That's VERY close to rebuilt, in my opinion I would say rebuilt would have to include new pistons, wrist pins and have the cylinders bored and honed. Most of the time cranks only need to be polished and rods usually are okay, and this is all going on the basis that it's a good running healthy motor that's just tired and wore out. And again it's just another case of if you ever sold it, just be honest and tell them what you did and didn't do. But one of the big things for me is a media blast or hot tanking of the heads and block and rods, main caps ect. And an extremely good wash, this is a VERY crucial step in what I would consider "rebuilt" as rebuilt basically means "new". Very important as there are many oil and coolant passages and pockets and cracks where gunk and grime can and WILL build up.
My take on your engine, the missed matched lifters were a big part of your problem, the force that was applied to your cam when the rocker arm assembly was tightened down, was putting a lot of pressure on the cam lobes with the longer lifters. Check the pushrods closely before using them again look at the tips for damage. I would replace the pushrods if it was my engine. The valley pan is fine that's how they are made. if you go with a flat tappet cam make sure to break it in correctly with oil that contains zinc.
Just stumbled upon your videos. My first car was a black over red '64 Galaxy 500, 390, 3 on the tree. Needless to say, your videos really caught my attention! Love your passion for the Gals! I'm looking forward to your further adventures, on these builds. Good luck!
Something to actually watch during quarantine and its an interesting video? That's awesome, always happy to drop by and watch your videos. Always something interesting
The lifter mismatch was definitely the problem. A hydraulic cam, regardless whether it has shaft mount rockers, single stud rockers or even bridged rockers..... the lifters are what adjust the lash. Valve stem height at rest is irrelevant. But if those lifters have different internal dimensions, and are bottoming and forcing the valves to hang open.... that's the issue.
Cleaned & painted doesn't make a rebuilt piece! Then again, after seeing the steering linkage SLOP, the unmachined heads will fit right in. Maybe if you spray enough of the sponsored product into the engine 5:52 that may give it another lease on life. Something to ponder ACE, where did all the camshaft metal go that left the lobes & lifters? The Galaxy deserves better than a half ass engine recondition.
I do not want to make you cry, but you probably will, when FE engines were built, gas contained copious amounts of lead, even in the peoples republic, so FORD just ground the exhaust seats straight into the cast iron, I do not know if FE engines had the seats flame hardened afterwards. Because of the present day gas, without lead, cast iron seats can not stand up to the heat and you saw the result, badly recessed seats, the heads you cleaned and ground the valves on, did NOT seem to have insert seats either, so the same thing will happen again, SOON. Unfortunately you need to have actual hardened seats installed, at some additional cost. SORRY
Yea, I agree with the other guy. There is no trusting anything in the bottom end after the stuff you found in the top. You might as well pull it all down, new rings, bearings, clean everything, inspect, hone, weigh and balance your own assembly. I'll bet rings are installed wrong and torque specs are wrong. You might as well make it and engine you can trust. With a nice fresh top end on an engine like that one, its going to take out any weak link in the bottom end in short order. You don't want to have done all that work to wipe a crank bearing or put a rod through the block. I use to see it all the time. No doubt this was some high school kids or novice first time build in its past with little money. Which was ok because we all start somewhere. But now it's your mess to do proper surgery on, and so far your doing a good job! You're going to have to decide how much money and where you want to put it. You might be going back for guides, but I get the sense you are doing the critical problems for now just to get her running.
While I applaud your effort at "rebuilding" the heads, what you did was not a rebuild. It was a pretty good backyard cleaning and repair but it was not a true "valve job"
All the metal from the cam and lifters is throughout the entire engine. If you don't take out block and clean it all out it's going to wipe out all the bearings, oil pump, and the replaced cam and lifters. Been there and done that.
Yes. It's important to note there is a specification for "deck height" as I recall the term. The valve stem height is to be at a certain dimension to fit in the valve lifters internal operating range. When the lifters pump up, the lifters hold the range needed yet allow the valves to seat. If somehow the valve stems are too high or too low, operation will not be as intended, might hardly work at all. Edit: this would be a must when the valve seats are reground and/or the same with the valves themselves.
The 390 in my 70 F-250 was a beast. You said this was a newly rebuilt engine? I'd never go back to this engine builder. Just a FYI Edelbrock makes a really nice set of heads for the f.e. motor.
I love your videos man, keep up the good work. Idk if it’s just me but your vids always give me like a traditional hotrodding sorta vibe. Ya know, just a young dude and some buddies making something cool outta what he has and what he can afford with common tools and a driveway. The way it oughta be.
Not uncommon to see sunk exhaust valves in the early heads. They didn't have hardened seats back then. Valves sink, raises the valve height, and being a non adjustable shaft rocker, collapses the lifter plunger. In turn, the lifter doesn't rotate anymore, applies too much load on the cam lobe and wipes it. Then, the genius decides to install taller lifters, wiping the lobes even more, while hanging the valves open, hence no compression. Only thing new on that engine is the red silicone from removing the intake to put those taller lifters in. The different lifter could have been done by mistake, but they definitely knew there was an issue.
That engine was built by a moron previously!Good work on your part.Look forward to see it running.Better check the sump for loose parts knocking around in there!
My buddy and I restored a 64 bard find Galaxie in high school in the 80's. We did this with a teenager's budget and tools. I now feel like Tony Stark. Thank you. lol
Not hard to believe as those engines are up around 60 years old now . As they got older the maintenance probably dropped off and got driven till they quit .
I also am a kid from the 60's and I loved the them. I had a 352 in a 64 ragtop and a 390 in a 68 Torino GT. Both of them were virtually indestructible. And believe me when I say I pushed them both very hard. That Torino could sit in one spot and burn the rear tires off! Those were the days!
@@dougbrown9861; Yeah , I was there too . What I remember is tight wheel wells and skinny tires = No bite and no launch ! Had a '62 T-Bird 390 in a '61 Galaxie and my girl ( my wife for 43 years!! ) had a '63 T-Bird with a 390 . And to prove there's no fool like an old fool , we bought a '60 T-bird ( my wife's dream car ) with a 352 a couple of years ago . Gon'na take some effort to get that one ship shape . Every time we get one thing fixed something else is wonky ! HAHAHA ! So goes it . Some things never change !
Craig, I don't know if this helps but I know it seems like you cant catch a break with these cars, but I really enjoy watching your video's! 30 mins isn't too long for me. I can't wait for the next one! Thank you!
If you just put the heads and other engine parts on the grownd there be back to iron ore in about 40 years from now the best thing that can be done for old Ford parts
My uncle would have said the engine sucked a valve. Could be it didn't have hardened valved seats. I was told you basically have to have hardened valve seats to run unleaded fuel.
I have a similar problem going on with what you had. I need to run a compression test, but the passenger side of my engine runs super rough, but the driver side doesn't. I got a 79 f250 with a 400
If it was cheap and easy, everyone would be doing it. I can't believe someone would actualy put different size lifters in an engine. My wife saw that as a problem and she doesn't know engines at all. At least you are knowledgable enough to realize that as a problem, too bad the moron who put them in the engine didn't. Good luck. I would check the cam bearings while you are at it.
That wiped out camshaft will cause your engine performance problems big time..... putting new lifters on a old cam, will wipe the cam out super quick... wonder if that was done, seeing the lifters were all not the same. Did it pop threw the carburetor all the time? Thats what wiped out cam symptoms are. The valve seat issue was from the lack of lead on the soft seats. The "FE" engine valve seats are hard to replace with hard ones, because there is not a lot of casting to work with. I completely overhauled the 352 4V in my 66 Galaxie, that I have been restoring on my channel. I even had the heads rebuild to handle lead free gas. Glad to see you get your old Galaxie going again. Cant wait to see both of them finished.
1 second ago First time watching. Had the pleasure of T-Boning a Galaxie with an Impala years ago and that's what attracted me! Weird eh? Did you buy this 'rebuilt' motor from a rebuild shop? What a mess in there! Hope it does not go deeper. Nice clean up by you and your team! You just need a bigger hammer.
I had a guy do this on a water pump, put a long bolt into the wall of the old 6 cly & give it a dip & ran for a little while & locked up on Ice cold night on Jan 10, my daughter was born just before midnight & this died about 2:00 am on the way home 8 miles away from any help. had to buy a new engine & the guy went to a junkyard & bought old engine & painted it made the valves tight & had no power & top speed was 40 mph, I took it on a long hill & got it to 45 mph & put it in low & blow that SOB up & told that dam guy where it was & go get that dam thing & fix it. He fixed it & then left the wires loose on sidewall & at night wire's pulled into the steering wheel & all the lights & engine died, after all the wires were hooked back up, you had to hit the breaks to kill the engine after key was turn off, Not one bit happy with this guy.
Remember that place in the steering with the slop? It's a valve that has to move, so the pressure is directed right or left. It may be worn, but it has to move. I see you make some mistakes, but that's okay. You will learn a lot. I had a 64 Galaxie 50 years ago. I drove it and worked on it for 17 years. I wish I still had it. I made a lot of mistakes too. Be careful who you take advice from. Many mistakes I made were because I listened to the wrong people. Maybe find a part time job in an alignment shop, brake shop, or machine shop. Those are the places I learned the most.
I had a 69 pontiac Catalina that had a bad timing chain and nylon gears. As I got more into it, I discovered the heads were damaged as well as the camshaft also. Back in the 1980's, I got into rebuilding the top ends of the 1970's Mustang 2's. I could pick them up dirt cheap and every one had the same issue. Lack of oil to the top end destroyed the camshaft. I was the only one that was doing that type of work and everyone I knew had a Mustang 2 they wanted fixed. Every weekend I had a different color car in my garage, all Ford,all Stang2. My neighbor thought I had a chameleon car. I finally stopped fixing those and moved to the 90's Mustangs. Then I discovered the Maverick and that was it for Mustang. I found a now love in the Maverick and again, had a yard full of those. By far the BEST Ford ever made in my book. Now I wouldnt get caught buying a Ford. I only buy Subaru or Honda.
And then there was the time in 1973 that I drove my cousin to the airport in DSM. This was a similar Galaxie from about 1964. I was along because he did not trust the car. His girlfriend and I started back to Ames, but did those brakes ever feel mushy! We soon coasted through a red light because there were no brakes! Added some brake fluid, drove it home cautiously and parked it!
Rebuild the 352 to a hi po 352, more compression, solid lifter cam, 4 barrel holley. Like the 352's were prior to 63. Most fe engines ive come across have a couple bad cam lobes, slopped timing chains, those single row timing chains in those fe's when ran hard would jump all the time and usually bent a couple valves with it.
That blows ....I have a rebuilt 390 in my 69 F 250 there leaker motors , also the valve train is noisy the rockers make a shiky shiky shiky shiky sound I had misfires l did a comp check as well I suspected some flat cam lobes but surprisingly I had 150 all across the board and they were dead on 150 1 was 149 . I will say with a 390 though it will run Hot and like crap on ported vacuum I have a old Holly on mine like yours no full manifold port I tapped into the rear were I had my power brake hose and ran it off full manifold vacum that 390 wants more timing at idle than intial I set it at 8 intial and full manifold vacum ran like a totally different motor ....
Who the hell built this motor??? After seeing the lifters I would've pulled the whole damn thing out and replaced EVERYTHING: bearings, rods, pistons, you name it... After all, who the F knows whats in there? Bearings for a honda civic? Maybe. Piston rings for a mitsubishi montegro? Possibly....
I must have found that guy's brother. Bought a junker for $50 cause of the 427 lo-riser alum. intake.Inside found mismatched lifters like yours and 352 rods and pistons and 390's.FT crank,with a FT timing cover.Well,I got some adjustable rockers and a killer intake for $50.
It would be helpful to know what engine you're working on (289/352/390). I'm confused: you finish the "head rebuild" then pan to an engine with only the valve covers off AND say you're going to remove the heads. Two engines....two cars? AH...two motors!
Do you really trust the bottom end after what you discovered on the top end? I know i wouldn't. You may want to consider pulling it out and double checking it. It will be more work but it will also be more good content. Knowing you went through it completely and properly will also have its benefits. Either way good luck. i'm looking foward to sseing you continue to make progress on this project.
goldsilverandiamonds Craig it is nearly unanimous by this peanut gallery that you are expending to much energy on this roadkill. Back your truck up to the door and heave the 500 lbs of scrap in the bed haul it away. Someone made a suggestion to buy a reman motor with guarantee, I agree 100%. Wipe the grease off the good parts. Install your bling manifold and hit the road and have fun. You will be time and money ahead. Cruising time is here🤩😝. BTW you will need to take the slop out of the steering 🤙
Stumbled across your channel. I miss my 64 galaxy500 XL. Mine was even white, with padded dash and swing away steering column. Great car, look forward to more videos.
OMG, so many things going wrong! First you did not rebuild the heads, you cleaned them up. Didn't lap the valves, check installed height ,spring press etc. Second, be careful putting in a used cam, all components HAVE to be kept in place. Third, I wouldn't do anything more until the bottom end is checked. The previous hacks may have blessed it also. Good luck.
My initial thought was that there were old heads that had never been rebuilt, and that the exhaust valves sank in to the seats from a lack of lead additive in the gasoline. However, that would only hold true if ALL of the exhaust valves had sunk. You're right. Someone inexperienced worked on those heads and cut the seats too deep, then most likely got help from some old school car guy who knew enough to install shorter lifters to hide the bad head work. Given this, I'd error on the side of caution, pull the engine, and inspect the bottom end for any other shoddy work.
Beating the valves out of the guides instead of dressing the burrs first?!!! If it didn't need guides before, it does now.
Given all the bootleg stuff that you have found so far....I would go ahead and pull the motor out because there's no telling what else has been done to the lower end.... In my opinion just pull it and start all over
Who knows how much damage the oozing sillycon has done to oil galleries and the lubrication system in general. From the looks of the valves and piston tops I believe he has an oil burner on his hands. Rings, bore and Valve guides. Need a good truck cam to haul that '64... it's a boat. I'm reliving a 55 year old nightmare from when I was 16.
Don't risk it. Pull it. Fix it properly or swap your other motor in.
Chuck Haynes jj7
Just rebuild the entire engine.
Why mess around doing a half ass job, do it right.
Agree .. If they muffed the lifters that bad.. Did they do better on the bottom end? Doesn't have to be true.. They coulda gotten a shortblock from a machine shop. Would still be good to blue print the bottom.
Junk it
Old engine running unleaded fuel wears the valve seats out
Deffinatly need to yank it. That metal went throughout that engine. Time for total rebuild. Been there with my 390 in my 61 tbird
First that happens when you dont have hardened valve seats and run unleaded fuel its sunken seats. And yes the cam is flat need zinc in the oil
I think you pretty much summed it up. Had pick up with a 360 that sucked the valves in the head like that.
Is there an additive that can take the place of the lead ? I remember Instead o'Lead but never had to use it .
The best thing to do is to put hardened valve seats in your heads but if you can't do that you can get LED substitute and run that
@@orionfixr7713 You don't need lead. Hardened seats help but the most important thing is to run the fuel octane you car needs. Leaded or unleaded 100 octane is 100 octane. If you need 93 and you run 87 this will happen. The lower octane fuel creates detonation as well as raise the combustion temperatures. With the higher temps the exhaust valve starts welding itself to the seat. These micro-welds are broken every time the valve lifts off of the seat taking apart of the seat with it. Run the correct octane and make sure your timing is right because detonation kills all engines. This is why you have to check your dynamic compression ratio and make sure your engine will be ok with the fuel you have available. Most octane boosters and lead additives are snake oil. So it's hard to even begin pointing someone in the right direction for those.
@@number3665 Thanks ! I have a '60 T-Bird with a 352 and it seems to run great on 93 octane and no additives but I was afraid I was screwing up the valves with no lead .
Craig, I work in auto machine shop, the fe heads are bad to do that. Seats are worn out and valves are pulled up into head and will stand open when rocker arm is torqued down. Looks like it needs a full set of exhaust seats.The heads you reworked are not going to last long.The one with the stuck valve is galled to valve guide. The fe engine is a exspensive engine to build correctly. Because you have a lot invested in just the heads. I hope the best for you
After lapping your valves, take some brake clean and spray it on top of the intake and exhaust valves, and look on the combustion side, to see if it's leaking around the face of the valve.
With the heads off like that, you can take a known good flat file and run it over the combustion and intake side to see if it's warped...
This gives me flashbacks of when my camshaft disintegrated after the first rebuild. Still gives heart palpitations! Keep up the good work!
Always a sign of a quality rebuild, a shit tin of red silicone. Bet the oil pump pickup is virtually blocked by red gunge.
Definitely rtv abuse lol
@@michaelstrafello8025 At least its high temp, lol
At 9:05, with your rocker arm assemblies removed, and all of the valves are up, or in the closed position, I would have liked to have seen you do a cylinder leakage test. And now that the valves are closed, you can put compressed air into the cylinders, and listen at the carburetor and tailpipe, and tell if it's the intake or an exhaust valve problem, before getting in too deep. Also have a radiator pressure tester attached to the radiator, and see if the pressure rises once you inject compressed air, this will tell you if it's a head gasket. Listening at the PVC, and hearing the woosh of air, will tell you if the rings are broken or frozen. You can do this on a static engine *BEFORE* you buy it. I just want the young guns to see this, to help them diagnose.
good to know.!!!!
@@stephenmanion3418
I'm a retired Ford, Lincoln, Mercury technician...
Joe Schlotthauer I have used that method for 40 years to check engines. Best method ever. I have ended many a car purchase by friends and customers after finding problems doing that.
Id be taking that motor out and checking it. The level of butchery on the valve train is epic. And my mind is on all that metal thats missing from the cam and lifters. ( bearings would be toast) I would also up grade to a small roller cam. With zink slowly dissapearing from even classic oils. A bit of future proofing
Another weak part on these old FE's in the pencil distributor to oil pump drive, upgrade that over the old stock piece.
If you've had this many problems with the top end, I can't imagine what you're going to find with the lower end. It just stands to reason. I would say pull the block right now and pull the pan. Don't wait till you have it all back together. "That" would be a mistake on you.
Yup....she be tired!! Sunken valves, dead cam...not a good combo, but very common on the old engines. I have 3 sets of early 289 heads that look just like it. Glad you got it figured out! Never know what you'll find when you open one up!
Looks like who ever built that engine didn't know what they were doing
Oh,they knew exactly what they were doing,I've seen it done over and over before,build a POS out of scrap and sell it off as a freshly rebuilt engine,it's an old scam.
Jim Earnest
Exactly
This was supposed to be a freshly rebuilt engine? Not by anyone who had a clue as to what he was doing!
I agree. Probably a shadetree mechanic who "thought" he knew what he was doing lol
Ha slap some new gaskets bearings and some paint .... Rebuilt motor....junk...
@@nealpurdy1202 and a whole tube or two of rtv
Thrown together to sell quick
Starter sounds like it's on its last gasp!
You're bringing back a ton of old memories for this old 60's hot rodder!
When you put the cam from the 401 you needed to make sure the lifters went back on the same lobe they were on in the 401.
When your starter sings and sounds like a Yoko Ono album ya got some serious shit going on under the hood...
Sorry ass work on this engine, pull the whole thing out, start over from oil pan up
Why it's very important to have valve springs set up to correct pressures and heights. My 428cj had one side literally driving the other side because of different valve spring pressures and heights.
Not bashin you, but don't say you rebuilt those heads. Rebuilding the heads include valve guides, valve seats, valve seals, grinding and finishing valves, decking the head surface, and of course new parts if necessary.
I think "refreshed" or "freshened up" is better, and of course being honest about everything that's been done. That's how you ended up with a "rebuilt" motor that's mostly junk, because someone said it was a built or rebuilt motor. Only the person who worked on it/ owns it knows what has been done.
Main point is that if it's not new or machined and done 100% it's not rebuilt. Again not bashin you, a lot of people do the same thing. Sometimes people take advantage of words to sell something and it's not the whole or real story and people who don't know any better get screwed over because the classic they bought had a "rebuilt" motor.
Also on a side note I refreshed recently a sbc 350. new gaskets everywhere except head gaskets. All seals everywhere new valve covers, timing cover, oil pan, rear main, oil pump, intake, carb, distributor, water pump.... basically everything you can do without getting into the internals, other than the oil pump and timing chain set, that was just for peace of mind, as it's a good motor it just needed fresh seals and some love. But even that's not a "rebuilt" motor, no machining work or anything like that. Just to make it functional and last as long as possible on a budget getting a project going.
So definitely not bashing you because I freshen up stuff as well, I'm not made of money either and have to get creative every now and then. Just be honest is the main thing I suppose.
You are spot on. However, I did much the same thing when I first started turning wrenches. It was the classic case of unconscious incompetence; I didn't know what I didn't know. The funny thing is that most of the time things worked fairly well.
pretty good bash
so rebuilding an engine requires blueprinting, boring, line honing, rod resizing, block washing, magnafluxing, etc? NO.
I had my LS3 refreshed last year. All new bearings, seals, rings, Melling HV oil pump, gaskets, cylinder liners honed, lifters, new cam, valve seals, springs and hardware, timing chain and upper gear, heads milled .015 - I am still reluctant to call it rebuilt as the crank and pistons were untouched and reused, the bores were lightly honed, and the valve guides and seats were left alone. Would you consider this refreshed or rebuilt?
InFiD3ViL That's VERY close to rebuilt, in my opinion I would say rebuilt would have to include new pistons, wrist pins and have the cylinders bored and honed. Most of the time cranks only need to be polished and rods usually are okay, and this is all going on the basis that it's a good running healthy motor that's just tired and wore out. And again it's just another case of if you ever sold it, just be honest and tell them what you did and didn't do.
But one of the big things for me is a media blast or hot tanking of the heads and block and rods, main caps ect. And an extremely good wash, this is a VERY crucial step in what I would consider "rebuilt" as rebuilt basically means "new". Very important as there are many oil and coolant passages and pockets and cracks where gunk and grime can and WILL build up.
28:00 Jesus, that lifter is so dished you could eat soup out of it!
I believe I'd tear it the rest of the way down after seeing the crap they did to the top end.
do a liquid test before installing
My take on your engine, the missed matched lifters were a big part of your problem, the force that was applied to your cam when the rocker arm assembly was tightened down, was putting a lot of pressure on the cam lobes with the longer lifters. Check the pushrods closely before using them again look at the tips for damage. I would replace the pushrods if it was my engine. The valley pan is fine that's how they are made. if you go with a flat tappet cam make sure to break it in correctly with oil that contains zinc.
Just stumbled upon your videos.
My first car was a black over red '64 Galaxy 500, 390, 3 on the tree. Needless to say, your videos really caught my attention! Love your passion for the Gals! I'm looking forward to your further adventures, on these builds. Good luck!
Something to actually watch during quarantine and its an interesting video? That's awesome, always happy to drop by and watch your videos. Always something interesting
Let's go something to watch on youtube
If they same five year old rebuilt the bottom end, i would be afraid....i would be very afraid!!
You certainly have no luck bud!
Why assemble without a valve job. Install stellite seats. Correct stem height. You don't know nothing
No way I put that engine back together without new rods and mains and ring.
Whoever done that was an idiot no way I would trust there work.
The lifter mismatch was definitely the problem. A hydraulic cam, regardless whether it has shaft mount rockers, single stud rockers or even bridged rockers..... the lifters are what adjust the lash. Valve stem height at rest is irrelevant. But if those lifters have different internal dimensions, and are bottoming and forcing the valves to hang open.... that's the issue.
Cleaned & painted doesn't make a rebuilt piece!
Then again, after seeing the steering linkage SLOP, the unmachined heads will fit right in.
Maybe if you spray enough of the sponsored product into the engine 5:52 that may give it another lease on life.
Something to ponder ACE, where did all the camshaft metal go that left the lobes & lifters?
The Galaxy deserves better than a half ass engine recondition.
I do not want to make you cry, but you probably will, when FE engines were built, gas contained copious amounts of lead, even in the peoples republic, so FORD just ground the exhaust seats straight into the cast iron, I do not know if FE engines had the seats flame hardened afterwards. Because of the present day gas, without lead, cast iron seats can not stand up to the heat and you saw the result, badly recessed seats, the heads you cleaned and ground the valves on, did NOT seem to have insert seats either, so the same thing will happen again, SOON. Unfortunately you need to have actual hardened seats installed, at some additional cost. SORRY
Wow! an ad with content! I was about to skip your Ad and in the end I learned something, like when to use that stuff.
18:16 enough silicone to seal Noah's ark...
Ok class can you say NFG, ol'boy that told you that he rebuilt that, was looking for a sucker
Yea, I agree with the other guy. There is no trusting anything in the bottom end after the stuff you found in the top. You might as well pull it all down, new rings, bearings, clean everything, inspect, hone, weigh and balance your own assembly. I'll bet rings are installed wrong and torque specs are wrong. You might as well make it and engine you can trust. With a nice fresh top end on an engine like that one, its going to take out any weak link in the bottom end in short order. You don't want to have done all that work to wipe a crank bearing or put a rod through the block. I use to see it all the time. No doubt this was some high school kids or novice first time build in its past with little money. Which was ok because we all start somewhere. But now it's your mess to do proper surgery on, and so far your doing a good job! You're going to have to decide how much money and where you want to put it. You might be going back for guides, but I get the sense you are doing the critical problems for now just to get her running.
non-hardened exhaust valve seats. Used with leaded fuel pre-1975. No good today. Fix for many dollars or replace with modern units.
While I applaud your effort at "rebuilding" the heads, what you did was not a rebuild. It was a pretty good backyard cleaning and repair but it was not a true "valve job"
Hardend seats damn spell check
All the metal from the cam and lifters is throughout the entire engine. If you don't take out block and clean it all out it's going to wipe out all the bearings, oil pump, and the replaced cam and lifters. Been there and done that.
I must’ve missed the “rebuild” part. No valve guide work, no seat work, no valve guide seals, no rebuild. Disassembled and reassembled...yeah
Would have loved to see how bad that stuck valve galled the guide......hackery at best.
Yes. It's important to note there is a specification for "deck height" as I recall the term. The valve stem height is to be at a certain dimension to fit in the valve lifters internal operating range. When the lifters pump up, the lifters hold the range needed yet allow the valves to seat. If somehow the valve stems are too high or too low, operation will not be as intended, might hardly work at all. Edit: this would be a must when the valve seats are reground and/or the same with the valves themselves.
Rebuilt like the former owner rebuilt the engine. Terms get tossed around incorrectly all the time.
The stock cast iron FE intake is about 80 ibs.
And if I remember right, an aluminum manifold is about 50 lbs. less.
It's half of the heads. The rocker cover bolts to the top of the manifold.
The 390 in my 70 F-250 was a beast. You said this was a newly rebuilt engine? I'd never go back to this engine builder. Just a FYI Edelbrock makes a really nice set of heads for the f.e. motor.
Trick Flow makes REALLY nice heads for the FE.
@@azdesertrat6969 Blue Thunder makes REALLY NICE heads for the FE.- Fucking Expensive! LOL
I love your videos man, keep up the good work. Idk if it’s just me but your vids always give me like a traditional hotrodding sorta vibe. Ya know, just a young dude and some buddies making something cool outta what he has and what he can afford with common tools and a driveway. The way it oughta be.
Heads were not designed for unleaded fuel. Need to add Zinc to the oil for the camshaft.
The gas we run today caused that u need to put gardens seats in ur new heads or you'll ruin them they'll recess to
Not uncommon to see sunk exhaust valves in the early heads. They didn't have hardened seats back then. Valves sink, raises the valve height, and being a non adjustable shaft rocker, collapses the lifter plunger. In turn, the lifter doesn't rotate anymore, applies too much load on the cam lobe and wipes it. Then, the genius decides to install taller lifters, wiping the lobes even more, while hanging the valves open, hence no compression.
Only thing new on that engine is the red silicone from removing the intake to put those taller lifters in. The different lifter could have been done by mistake, but they definitely knew there was an issue.
That engine was built by a moron previously!Good work on your part.Look forward to see it running.Better check the sump for loose parts knocking around in there!
I suggest you put in some hardened valve seats. If you don't I see valve recession in your future.
My buddy and I restored a 64 bard find Galaxie in high school in the 80's. We did this with a teenager's budget and tools. I now feel like Tony Stark. Thank you. lol
good job on the failure analysis, i enjoyed this. keep up the good work!
No valve Job ?
No grinding the valves , seats ?
No new valve guides ?
Every 352/390 I’ve ever pulled apart has had 3-5 problems. Cracked heads, junk lifters, bent pushrods, worn out lifters, bent valves.
Not hard to believe as those engines are up around 60 years old now . As they got older the maintenance probably dropped off and got driven till they quit .
i had a good handful of F,E engines and all of them were good solid motors
sounds like the people in your area are idiots.
your oil pickup screen is now clogged or restricted with chunks of RTV.
Interesting finds in there. Never seen lifters mashed into an engine like that before. Insane.
As a kid of the 60s, I remember you loved these engines or you hated them!! The small blocks had a good reputation!
I also am a kid from the 60's and I loved the them. I had a 352 in a 64 ragtop and a 390 in a 68 Torino GT. Both of them were virtually indestructible. And believe me when I say I pushed them both very hard. That Torino could sit in one spot and burn the rear tires off! Those were the days!
@@dougbrown9861; Yeah , I was there too . What I remember is tight wheel wells and skinny tires = No bite and no launch ! Had a '62 T-Bird 390 in a '61 Galaxie and my girl ( my wife for 43 years!! ) had a '63 T-Bird with a 390 . And to prove there's no fool like an old fool , we bought a '60 T-bird ( my wife's dream car ) with a 352 a couple of years ago . Gon'na take some effort to get that one ship shape . Every time we get one thing fixed something else is wonky ! HAHAHA ! So goes it . Some things never change !
Looks like my Galaxies 390 orange rtv for DAYS even around the pcv valve and the carb gaskets
@@orionfixr7713 it's a Ford!! Lol
You need to make it a 435 cid . And 10.2-1 comp. .
Great video, So glad my 390 in my F100 doesn't have any major problems. I would not want to deal with all this.
What kind of cam are you going to put back in the 410?
Craig, I don't know if this helps but I know it seems like you cant catch a break with these cars, but I really enjoy watching your video's! 30 mins isn't too long for me. I can't wait for the next one! Thank you!
Haha yeah these cars hate me. But I'm glad you're enjoying it!
When you buy junk this happens.
@@rickallen6378 Two cars with what were supposed to be rebuilt engines are junk?
If you just put the heads and other engine parts on the grownd there be back to iron ore in about 40 years from now the best thing that can be done for old Ford parts
My uncle would have said the engine sucked a valve. Could be it didn't have hardened valved seats. I was told you basically have to have hardened valve seats to run unleaded fuel.
I have a similar problem going on with what you had. I need to run a compression test, but the passenger side of my engine runs super rough, but the driver side doesn't. I got a 79 f250 with a 400
you have to open the throttle for a compression check..
I jokingly said, the first time I heard it run, that it was running on 5 cylinders...
I remember that. Good call. Or......lucky? 😜
I had a 64 galaxy 390 with broke ring on cyl 3!
If it was cheap and easy, everyone would be doing it. I can't believe someone would actualy put different size lifters in an engine. My wife saw that as a problem and she doesn't know engines at all. At least you are knowledgable enough to realize that as a problem, too bad the moron who put them in the engine didn't. Good luck. I would check the cam bearings while you are at it.
Yup...I would yank the old FE and go through it.
That wiped out camshaft will cause your engine performance problems big time..... putting new lifters on a old cam, will wipe the cam out super quick... wonder if that was done, seeing the lifters were all not the same. Did it pop threw the carburetor all the time? Thats what wiped out cam symptoms are. The valve seat issue was from the lack of lead on the soft seats. The "FE" engine valve seats are hard to replace with hard ones, because there is not a lot of casting to work with. I completely overhauled the 352 4V in my 66 Galaxie, that I have been restoring on my channel. I even had the heads rebuild to handle lead free gas. Glad to see you get your old Galaxie going again. Cant wait to see both of them finished.
The vale pan is not cut that’s what they were like from factory, also the Exhaust valves are sunk because they do not have hardened seats
1 second ago
First time watching. Had the pleasure of T-Boning a Galaxie with an Impala years ago and that's what attracted me! Weird eh? Did you buy this 'rebuilt' motor from a rebuild shop? What a mess in there! Hope it does not go deeper. Nice clean up by you and your team! You just need a bigger hammer.
Apparently I have missed a few (a lot) of videos. Do you still have the red Galaxie as well or just this white one now?
I like the longer videos
Good video although I would have sent the heads out. Great work
I had a guy do this on a water pump, put a long bolt into the wall of the old 6 cly & give it a dip & ran for a little while & locked up on Ice cold night on Jan 10, my daughter was born just before midnight & this died about 2:00 am on the way home 8 miles away from any help. had to buy a new engine & the guy went to a junkyard & bought old engine & painted it made the valves tight & had no power & top speed was 40 mph, I took it on a long hill & got it to 45 mph & put it in low & blow that SOB up & told that dam guy where it was & go get that dam thing & fix it. He fixed it & then left the wires loose on sidewall & at night wire's pulled into the steering wheel & all the lights & engine died, after all the wires were hooked back up, you had to hit the breaks to kill the engine after key was turn off, Not one bit happy with this guy.
A backyard butcher put that engine together,WOW,I have been building engines over 39 years ,what a mess
I wonder what the bottom end looks like ?
You've inspired me Craig... I bought a 62 Ford f100 unibody... all original... my wife says Thanks alot ;)
I had to have hardened seats put in my heads. Because all the exhaust seats started to pound out of the head because of no lead in the gas nowa days.
Remember that place in the steering with the slop? It's a valve that has to move, so the pressure is directed right or left. It may be worn, but it has to move. I see you make some mistakes, but that's okay. You will learn a lot. I had a 64 Galaxie 50 years ago. I drove it and worked on it for 17 years. I wish I still had it. I made a lot of mistakes too. Be careful who you take advice from. Many mistakes I made were because I listened to the wrong people. Maybe find a part time job in an alignment shop, brake shop, or machine shop. Those are the places I learned the most.
I had a 69 pontiac Catalina that had a bad timing chain and nylon gears. As I got more into it, I discovered the heads were damaged as well as the camshaft also. Back in the 1980's, I got into rebuilding the top ends of the 1970's Mustang 2's. I could pick them up dirt cheap and every one had the same issue. Lack of oil to the top end destroyed the camshaft. I was the only one that was doing that type of work and everyone I knew had a Mustang 2 they wanted fixed. Every weekend I had a different color car in my garage, all Ford,all Stang2. My neighbor thought I had a chameleon car. I finally stopped fixing those and moved to the 90's Mustangs. Then I discovered the Maverick and that was it for Mustang. I found a now love in the Maverick and again, had a yard full of those. By far the BEST Ford ever made in my book. Now I wouldnt get caught buying a Ford. I only buy Subaru or Honda.
And then there was the time in 1973 that I drove my cousin to the airport in DSM. This was a similar Galaxie from about 1964. I was along because he did not trust the car. His girlfriend and I started back to Ames, but did those brakes ever feel mushy! We soon coasted through a red light because there were no brakes! Added some brake fluid, drove it home cautiously and parked it!
Rebuild the 352 to a hi po 352, more compression, solid lifter cam, 4 barrel holley. Like the 352's were prior to 63. Most fe engines ive come across have a couple bad cam lobes, slopped timing chains, those single row timing chains in those fe's when ran hard would jump all the time and usually bent a couple valves with it.
Why don’t you make some videos about your motorcycle please!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
That blows ....I have a rebuilt 390 in my 69 F 250 there leaker motors , also the valve train is noisy the rockers make a shiky shiky shiky shiky sound I had misfires l did a comp check as well I suspected some flat cam lobes but surprisingly I had 150 all across the board and they were dead on 150 1 was 149 .
I will say with a 390 though it will run Hot and like crap on ported vacuum I have a old Holly on mine like yours no full manifold port I tapped into the rear were I had my power brake hose and ran it off full manifold vacum that 390 wants more timing at idle than intial I set it at 8 intial and full manifold vacum ran like a totally different motor ....
Check out the intake manifold fit on the head.....wrong intake gaskets cowbow!
4 mins in and i saying blown head gasket...or crack!
I know EXACTLY what caused those valves to stick. You guys ran OLD gas from that TANK didn't YOU???????
Who the hell built this motor???
After seeing the lifters I would've pulled the whole damn thing out and replaced EVERYTHING: bearings, rods, pistons, you name it...
After all, who the F knows whats in there?
Bearings for a honda civic? Maybe.
Piston rings for a mitsubishi montegro? Possibly....
Wow. Plus 1 for not saying 'what's up guys?' -- might watch another now
Watching more of the video...
MAN. What crackhead built this engine?!?
I must have found that guy's brother. Bought a junker for $50 cause of the 427 lo-riser alum. intake.Inside found mismatched lifters like yours and 352 rods and pistons and 390's.FT crank,with a FT timing cover.Well,I got some adjustable rockers and a killer intake for $50.
It would be helpful to know what engine you're working on (289/352/390). I'm confused: you finish the "head rebuild" then pan to an engine with only the valve covers off AND say you're going to remove the heads. Two engines....two cars? AH...two motors!
Do you really trust the bottom end after what you discovered on the top end? I know i wouldn't. You may want to consider pulling it out and double checking it. It will be more work but it will also be more good content. Knowing you went through it completely and properly will also have its benefits. Either way good luck. i'm looking foward to sseing you continue to make progress on this project.
goldsilverandiamonds
Craig it is nearly unanimous by this peanut gallery that you are expending to much energy on this roadkill. Back your truck up to the door and heave the 500 lbs of scrap in the bed haul it away. Someone made a suggestion to buy a reman motor with guarantee, I agree 100%. Wipe the grease off the good parts. Install your bling manifold and hit the road and have fun. You will be time and money ahead. Cruising time is here🤩😝. BTW you will need to take the slop out of the steering 🤙
@@mikemcmorrow6646 and will have no troubleshooting or problem solving skills.
Man I can't wait to build my 428 stroker for my 67 fastback.
Stumbled across your channel. I miss my 64 galaxy500 XL. Mine was even white, with padded dash and swing away steering column. Great car, look forward to more videos.
OMG, so many things going wrong! First you did not rebuild the heads, you cleaned them up. Didn't lap the valves, check installed height ,spring press etc. Second, be careful putting in a used cam, all components HAVE to be kept in place. Third, I wouldn't do anything more until the bottom end is checked. The previous hacks may have blessed it also. Good luck.
My initial thought was that there were old heads that had never been rebuilt, and that the exhaust valves sank in to the seats from a lack of lead additive in the gasoline. However, that would only hold true if ALL of the exhaust valves had sunk. You're right. Someone inexperienced worked on those heads and cut the seats too deep, then most likely got help from some old school car guy who knew enough to install shorter lifters to hide the bad head work. Given this, I'd error on the side of caution, pull the engine, and inspect the bottom end for any other shoddy work.