Unix System
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- Опубліковано 12 гру 2024
- A look at the many new versions of Unix and its challenge to DOS and OS/2.
Guests: Rick Davis, Frame Technology; Karen Lusardi, Sun Microsystem; Janet Dobbs, Hewlett Packard; Bill Jacobs, Apple; Karen Christian, Wiesel Lab; Doug Michels, SCOMichael Karels, UC Berkeley
Products/Demos: Sun 386i Unix Workstation; Sun; Write; Sun; Paint; Sun; Draw; Sun File Manager; Open Look; OSF/Motif; HP 9000 360 Unix Workstation; X Windows with A/UXSCO Xenix
Wow, an entire operating system and technical applications using less memory than one Chrome tab.
Yeah but then you can't use pornhub.
i mean a lot of old OSs could do that
@Steven Tsakiris ?
@@celebrate__ i mean you can write your own os or maybe try linux 0.11 it is eats ram lower than a vscode project!
@NSG650 thanks for the info but this wasn’t really relevant to me haha
My goodness, that woman from Sun Microsystems was ON her game! WHEW! She had ALL the answers, knew ALL the product, understood everything about all of it, appreciating every aspect and able to eloquently lay it all out quickly in laymen's terms - with a great speaking voice. Right to the point always. She came to a butter-knife fight with a B-52!
Looks like she does a lot of coke
@@ironmantooltime Well, this aired in 1989. Everyone was doing coke back then... so pretty standard really.
again breaking the myth that women were discriminated against in the 80's.
Most women who stay in tech are like this. They have faced such discrimination and second-guessing by men that they need to produce high quality watertight output just to compete evenly with such men who'll use any opportunity to drag them down.
@@JamieBainbridge you are just totally full of it.
30 years later I'm still running out of memory and I am doing the same tasks.
I had a blast with your comment... thanks very much Sir.
Underated comment.
Ha! How about delay on a text input. I mean come on, it has more circuits than there are people on the planet but the thing has to process which key I just pressed.
The Sun lady has such a beautiful voice!
She does indeed....
Yeah and UNIX was or is still great
Right!?
no, lol, are you on drugs?
I remember watching this on PBS in the 80's, now I'm watching it on my Linux computer at home. Fun watching early OLVWM and MOTIF both of which were used on Linux during the 90's. Not to mention the attack on Linux SCO would attempt.
if CDE was open source we maybe had a standardised desktop on linux from the start...
Same here watching on my Arch Linux XFCE4 PC. So happy that Linux is starting trying to do a new UNIX revolution.
I am of course doing my part by helping with Open-Source games and making Videos on my channel about Linux and how to get into it.
The SCO that put out Xenix was not the same SCO that attacked Linux in court. Basically, in 2001 SCO was facing bankruptcy and its Unix-related assets and trademarks were purchased by Caldera, a Linux repackager and Novell spin-off, which renamed itself The SCO Group. Then SCO Group was taken over by Darl McBride, who changed the business plan from "sell and support Unix+Linux" to "SUE EVERYBODY". It's a shame that SCO's good name was dragged through the mud, because the original team did a lot of fine work, starting in the late '70s, on porting AT&T Unix to microprocessor-based computers.
"Unix requires a lot of computing power" oh how have times have changed.
Now it requires 100x more power
@@SimonWoodburyForget Minix ran on 68000 at 8Mhz, 500 times slower than a iPhone. IOS is a Unix Like.
@@SimonWoodburyForget Any $50 smartphone is at least 10 times more powerful than a $20 million Cray supercomputer from the 80s.
There's even a unix in some HDMI cables for copy protection.
@@stephanesonneville Only if you are a gamer and require fancy graphical interfaces. Today, you can do anything with a rPi... if you take the time to learn how.
I’m in love with the Sun lady
That Sun lady is on Social Security and has great-grandkids.
Unix, my one and only love. I use a Mac these days, but the happiest days of my career were spent running Sun and SGI machines.
Mac OSX is UNIX based. You're still basically with your old love. lol
@@orbithesun1 Indeed. I know there is some controversy about that, but yes it's still Unix in my eyes.
@@adam872 What's the controversy? It was certified as Unix.
@@DanEllis I recall there being some hoo-ha from Unix purists in the early 2000's that OSX wasn't proper Unix. I never subscribed to that, but there you go.
Solaris and SunOS FTW
It's a Unix system...I know this!
lol I know that movie quote...
Somebody had to quote that movie.
Was that from Jurassic park somewhere? I heard that quote too at one point or was it linux. LOL. But you know what. Even though Motif at the time for Unix environment that was being shown in this video. Reminded me of the early days of when Linus Torvalds had the xwindows system for linux. It was crude back in the day. But it has been refined over the years when you compare it from way back then to todays environments.
Karl Entner GUIs in Linux are still clunky though. I don't like most of them much.
Filming In Portland to some of them I would agree with you on that. they use a lot of resources on the computers. I think exfe is the lighter one of the group. I might be spelling it wrong as well. That's why UNIX/Linux are great in text mode only for servers. Since there is no overhead for the graphics mode to be in there.
1989 was the year of Unix on the desktop.
UNIX was such an eloquent solution that it has barely changed almost 50 years later! I still use it daily and love it! Pipelining, redirection and being completely based on text is just amazing once you get over the user hostile command line interface.
It was basically perfection the day they made it to those who could understand it
On the surface it hasnt changed.
At its core it has changed pretty significantly.
Command history and editing, tab completion, copy and paste -- lots of improvements since the early days.
“What’s inside a computer?” “words and tubes” “ok text and pipes it is”
Other than quirky utility names, what made UNIX more difficult to use than CPM or DOS? You could always alias a conmand in the shell to customize your experience.
Nobody ever accused DEC VAX VMS or other command line systems of being difficult to use. Like all of the other mini computer and main frame operating systems.
I actually had a meeting-interview with Gary Kildall about five years before this video was recorded. His skepticism over UNIX was his undoing. The Santa Cruz operation up the coast was eating his lunch and I told him as much.
6:35 whoa whoa whoa _under_ $5000?! What a steal!
Thats why MS-DOS and cheap PC clones won...
Such an amazing episode!!! Already back in 89, Unix was already seen as old, fragmented and was extremely expensive, both in terms of the hardware needed and the software licenses.
Had not been for the GNU project, and Linux's adoption of the GPLv2, NT would be dominant today. I know many colleagues that explained how most of the industry received NT as the way forward, to clean up all the Unix mess and bring standarization.
GNU/Linux has effectively displaced NT on the server side and every other Unix, apart from BSDs and Illumos, the rest are all dead: IRIX, SunOS, Solaris (well, we have Illumos instead), XENIX, AIX, HP-UX.
it's horrifying to imagine a world dominated by proprietary software
@@shallex5744 My local city, regional and country governments all don't care at all, they use proprietary apps and services all the time. Services paid by public money should use public licenses.
Proprietary software has its advantages
Great video for retro-tech lovers. I can't take my eyes off of these computers and the graphical UIs :)
Notice the GUI looks like a Macintosh from the 80's? That's because Macintosh GUI was largely "borrowed" from XEROX who AT&T partnered with on this. People don't realize how innovative XEROX was with user friendly computer systems since they became synonymous with copy machines.
A/UX was a UNIX actually done by apple. Xerox Alto wasn't Unix based actually..
@@ignacioorona3458 Notice I said GUI not kernel
What a great snapshot in time, thanks for uploading.
Unix is in many ways easier to use than DOS and the BASIC interpreters which came with home micros, but it was originally intended for computer scientists and as such is seen as "advanced only".
Also I'd hardly call it "resource-hungry", it ran quite happily on a PDP-11, it would have been right at home on the 5150. I wonder how different the PC landscape would have been today had IBM licensed Unix or BSD alongside DOS
Considering the PDP-11 cost 10 times as much as the 5150, I'd call that significantly more resources.
@@stargazer7644 Yeh, and a 5150 cost 10x as much as your typical mid-range 2010 gaming rig, but you wouldn't try to play Crysis on one...
@@233kosta I'm not sure what comparing a 1982 5150 to a 1982 PDP-11 has to do with comparing it to a nearly 30 year newer 2010 gaming rig, but unless your 2010 gaming rig (whatever that is) was $150, it wasn't 10x less. I'm having trouble figuring out what your point is.
The Unix that ran on a PDP-11 had many limitations: primitive memory management (no shared libraries or shared memory), no threads, no GUI, no IPC (apart from unnamed pipes), no networking, maximum of 20 open files per process, no select/poll calls, to name but a few.
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 Of course it was limited. This was a 16 bit OS near the dawn of Unix in 1979. What do you expect? Unix version 7 (among several others) ran on the 16 bit PDP-11. It had a version of shared libraries and in addition to pipes it had the short lived mpx IPC system call. If you measure the power of your OS by whether it has a GUI or not, you need to go back to Windows.
Thank you for posting this it bring back great memories! I show this to my young folks so they can see what us "old folks" worked with Unix is great with a good window manager like Open Look and better Next step is good.
What do you think the modern day equivalent of Open Look is?
@@thelongslowgoodbye It is most likely Mac OS X or Linux Mint with xfe just my opinion.
Xenix for charging $5000 for their UNIX.
And the industry wonders why UNIX never took off back then.
That's why a guy called Linus Torvalds started making his own clone of Unix in 1991. Merely 2 years after this video was made.
Since then, Linux has exploded into all the corners of the computing market and nowadays drives most of what its spiritual parent drove before (business and academia).
tothatl the problem with lousex from the beginning was it was designed implemented and engineered for retards
Let me explain Unix is far superior at object oriented multiplexing. If you took 10 monkeys and sat them down at a terminal they’d basically come up with Linux in a day.
Linux has never been good at multi tasking as an example. Believe me I worked in a school library and was in charge of the Linux computers. Try getting a linux machine to run Mac paint good luck with that. When I tried installing it I got several error messages “this computer can only do one operation at a time. Error code 511”
“Please refer to your manual not enough memory error code 638”
One supposedly new advanced Linux machine actually started smoking on me.
The next day I came in early and took a sledge hammer and updated all the Linux systems lol
I went to Unix and haven’t looked back
@collj86 so then how does one get into unix nowadays lol
@@tothatl that's not accurate. Richard Stallman and the GNU project created a Unix clone starting in 1984, Linus Torvalds wrote a clone of the Minix kernel, which was then used for the GNU system in 1992 after he had liberated the source code and thus made it no longer proprietary as it was in 1991
let's not rewrite history here
Everyone uses unix-like systems today, Android, AWS, MacOS etc. This is because it wasn't "nasty" and "difficult", there is actually astonishing simplicity and elegance in it.
unix was ready for the internet and large corporate networks. Microsoft had to move mountains to get up to (with windows 2000). But ist won because it was evolution from early ibm machines an no one in the customer-businesses had to have the responsibility for a change of concept.
Also if you run Windows on Intel, the Intel Management Engine that connects to the internet and sends all your browsing history to the NSA without your permission is running a version of Minix.
@@fennecbesixdouze1794 Talk non-sense, crap.
Unless you're interacting with a shell prompt, you aren't using a unix-like system. You're using a graphical application running on a unix-like system.
@@fennecbesixdouze1794 And a very buggy version of Minix, too -- full of security holes.
"That nasty old operating system that everyone hates", wow that's so funny to hear, I literally can't think of a more beloved family of operating systems than Unix.
Probably novices hated it back in the day, UNIX runs the world these days if you count Linux as UNIX.
Read "The Unix Hater's Handbook" if you want to know the common complaints about Unix in the 80s. To them, it seemed very primitive compared to the operating systems they were used to, and the versions of Unix tools that came with the system often crashed or silently truncated lines, things like that (the GNU coreutils of today are more reliable than the stuff they had back then).
Gary Kildall keeps bitchin' about the price, LOL. Well, yes, Gary, your CP/M was awesome but in anotger category.
who knew unix will still be a dominating architecture
I''m glad a lot of that old stuff which was too slow, limited, and sometimes problematic are behind us. Today, for the end user computers and software have never been easier to use. And saves us a lot of work.
This is true. People today may not realize how awful these old systems were. Slow, buggy, and super expensive,
with alternatives few and far between.
I lived that history, and I have to tell you I never found that "old stuff" to be too slow, limited and problematic at the time. And I guarantee you a person 50 years from now will be saying exactly the same thing about whatever you think the best/fastest/easiest thing right now.
i'm sad that super fast computers have facilitated the population at large being 100 percent computer illiterate, and allowed the proliferation of the worst software ever made to become commonplace in our daily lives
Unix is very user friendly. It's just picky about who it's friends are. 🙂
BTW, I've been running Linux for over 20 years.
....gnus not unix
X11.3! Motif! Openstep! 486 on its way! This was the heyday, the most exciting time for home computing I feel. I enjoyed watching this episode more than porn - much more than I should. I've seen many computer chronicles episodes and so I don't understand how I've only just seen this now. It's funny how little some things have changed almost three decades later - now we have 2 million UNIX variants and 20 million desktops / window managers that run on £20 computers. If you replace Motif with GTK and OpenStep with Qt or macOS then a lot of the comments they make still apply almost 30 years later which is funny and sad too. X11 has at least another good 5 years in it I'd say.
I have two copies of Sun Solaris and have learned to use it some on my PC's at home. I stopped using it when the computers went down, but I plan to get them repaired and put them back in service.
Omg it's like a time travel to hear those processing values
These Black&white thing owns 96% of servers!! Damn good thing!!
Interesting to see the bit on how Apple tried to market A/UX. It's kind of like a proto virtual machine.
Putting cups with liquids near the keyboard??? 3:17
+Till the last breath people werent as behavioral retarded back then as we are so the risk was minimal to no existent...
@@kreuner11 It's a *Sun-2/50* workstation
What's a workstation compared to a regular PC box?
You can actually drag and drop files with this sun microsystem unix UI!
Great episode and a nice look at the flavors and power of Unix :) QC
good old unix
hey! im taking a unix/linux course in at college of san mateo right now!
Love Unix/Linux so much.
IT'S A UNIX SYSTEM!! 🤩
9:49 "Drag & Drop" ...what kind of sorcery is that?
thanks for telling us what year this video was made
Dang those interviews were aggressive
Now on any Apple product today.
It's funny, today more machines are running Unix-derived operative systems than any other type. Basically all smartphones, Apple's smart watches, almost all supercomputers, and a significant part of the cloud operations, all Macs and Chrome books, many of cars, and so on.
I'm pleasantly surprised to see multiple female product managers doing these demos.
@Pthwrden1 It matters to people who don't care about merit and want to see their tokens represented.
Why would you care? Are you implying women can't do the job?
@@AGoat1971 i think its more of them being happy because this video feels refreshing in a world where women are generally stereotyped to not care about technology.
Watching this in 2020, on a Unix Darwin System
Watching this in 2020, on a Unix 4.4-BSD-Lite2 BSD System 👽
2023... on OpenBSD 👾
CP/M left in the dust, in other words. Gary Kildall must have been drooling, since GEM would need another 200,000 man hours at least to develop some variant of *nix, as well as this level of *nix windowing performance.
RIP. Gary Kildall @1:45, computing pioneer, creator of CP/M, precursor to MS/DOS. Many believe Microsoft's fortune is founded on the theft of Gary Kildall's innovative OS. It included an early general purpose wireframe 3D graphics API. If you don't know who he is, look him up right now.
Thank you for posting this video :)
Imagine a dystopic world where youtube was launched in 1982 and every video started like this one
Wait, GUI interface in UNIX?
It's amazing that the CPU in my mobile phone blows the stuff in 1989 desktops into the weeds...
wow, mine beats supercomputers of that era and it's old ass i9300, You must love that Nokia 3310 of yours ;)
www.phonearena.com/news/A-modern-smartphone-or-a-vintage-supercomputer-which-is-more-powerful_id57149
+rochr4 Mine says "Atari 2600" on the back. Is that fast?
It would probably blow desktops from 1999 into the weeds too.
great, but for what purpose?
It's because a modern OS loads a LOT of stuff that have been perfected over the years. If you started building up the same libraries with an old OS you would have the same delayed load times, even worse.
Was Unix really considered hard to use back then?
You can see this is where it all changed.
Text too hard for you?
Ok, lets see if we can make something with pretty pictures for you.
If you follow the events all the way you end up talking to halfwits in comments on a video sharing website.
We should never have made computer use so easy, we unleashed every single village idiot into the world.
Viendo algo sobre UNIX desde un LINUX
Great video. Thank you.
HP-UX baby
"That nasty old operating system ..." Man, if only you saw Windows today... Positively decrepit.
hahahahhahahahahahaa
So many attempts at making Unix based OSes, and even by large companies.
Interesting that a lonely Linus Torvalds actually managed to make the one that saw large adoption.
MacOS is Unix-Like though
He was not alone, he was the primary one, but linux became what it is because of community.
That's what happens when you give your product away for free.
you're thinking of Richard Stallman and the GNU project who with years of hard work and many contributors, began creating a Unix-like system starting in 1984. Linus simply provided a kernel that was used in the GNU system in 1992
let's not rewrite history here
LMAO at the stuff at the end regarding the NSA and computerised elections.
We appear to have a serious problem on our hands...
Matthew Norris what serious problem?
I wonder how those "self destructing chips" worked lol sounds pretty dangerous. Wonder what they were actually used FOR; non-volatile flash memory didn't really hold anything useful yet. Can't imagine what they would do. Maybe they destroy everything around them? There would be no troubleshooting a failed unit!
Oh those early optical mice....
Its a trip watching this on a mobile computer small enough to hold in my hand (smart phone)
...that runs a *ix OS.
even crazier when you realize youre running *nix os on your phone
GUI 101, ladies and gentlemen. So nostalgic.
Before you close the video check out the news at the end
I see a pattern where they refer to insane prices as "under xxxx dollars". Today we refer to them as "over 9000".
Is the spinning ball of death on the macOS a bug?
What is the drawing program they are using on openwindows ?
The general public won't go for Unix. AT&T wants far too much money per seat for it to be cost-effective for the average DOS user. We'll just have to wait for some young upstart from Finland to write an open-source Unix clone for the 386. It won't be professional like GNU but it'll be free of Minix code.
3:23 And the Linux distro family tree is 10× as complex. And one could argue it has been 100× as successful.
IBM did it the right way in the 90's: AIX with a main server and X-Stations on the desktop. All at 10 Mbps ethernet thin-net.
Who's watching this on Linux or Unix or any other free and open source os?
Fedora GNU/Linux babey!!!
OSX.
Mint!
Ooooh multi tasking....
Why Apple didn't just switch to A/UX I will never understand. Why bother with Copland when A/UX was already a finished product?
+a4e69636b Indeed. Why bother with the Macintosh when the IIgs was already a finished product?
@@brandonlewis2599 IIgs was already better than the original Mac.
Thanks for the upload :)
This can't me 89? monitors look way newer
Amazing technology
Every time Unix is on this show, Kildall starts off with negativity.
because he's a Gates lackey.
Right up to the end of his life, Kildall was very bitter about the failure of CP/M and the fact that IBM chose Microsoft's DOS over his operating system. Bill Gates was a millionaire and Gary's busting his chops making TV shows about other people's success. Poor guy, he was so close but so far.
@@JamieBainbridge that has nothing to do with unix, cool story, kid.
The grand daddy of Linux : )
Nope, it's the grandMOTHER of Linux. Any 'nix OS is femaile, it's complex, keeps men up awake at night, is always right and does't feel like having to explain why something happened the way it did :)
Its funny how they think anyone is going to be able to do anything useful with that system without knowing the command line. Its questionable if anyone would be able to do that today with a modern linux gui and they think they are going to do it with THAT gui.
Leon Shaw they don't hide access to terminal, and in fact apples tech articles give commands that must be run at command line. So I don't think that's true anymore.
That is why its often refereed to the command line in guides, I can tell some type this and he gets exactly what I wanted, where as the gui I need to explain much more. When I support someone its the same.
I'd almost forgotten how wretched OpenLook was.
-jcr
I think it actually looks decent compared to Motif.
Talk about damning with faint praise!
RETRO ... Love it :-)
Tell me you're from the 80s without telling me you're from the 80s --> 6:34 "Under $5000" 😂
amazing
Those were days when they had many real UNIX systems,
Edward SB I miss those old suns.. the real power workstations that often doubled as servers in isps I worked at in the 90's.
“Real UNIX,” eh? How about, “real UNIX died with v7 and the introduction of ioctl”. You can call many things “real” or “not real” UNIX.
who cares anyway, real unix was proprietary garbage. the free systems we have today far surpass anything that unix ever was.
Hey Gary, Xenix ran on PC hardware for years.
Those price tags on the hardware back then, MAMA MIA!
My first PC compatible was a Tandy 1000 SX that I bought for $1100 in 1986 with 256k of RAM and one 360K floppy. For my second PC I spent over $3500 on a 386-20 in 1989. It had a 40 MB hard drive and a whopping fully loaded 4MB of RAM. If bought today, that would be about $8800 in inflation adjusted dollars.
20:08 Imagine having that level of serviceability on modern Apple products🤣
X11. WERE STILL USING THAT SHIT
That nasty old operating system hahaha
I miss when only us experts knew how to "do stuff on computers." Banyan Vines, BSD, even Novell Netware was at least left to those of us who knew what we were doing. Now... every kid can "do stuff".
Funny that he's talking about power needed for unix. But really, there are tight, efficient versions that are tiny and run on very low-power computers vs windows or Mac OS X.
she used "vaporware" at 10:50, wow, dont know they had the word back then
Vaporware has existed since the first software company made the very first product announcement.
"It can run DOS and UNIX at the same time."
"How much does this system cost?"
"Under $5000..."
😲😲😲😲😲😲
I mean, for the time
All modern smart phones run a modern unix with a fancy interface, they did get it right. eventually.
Not quite. They are based off Linux, which has nothing to do with Unix other than cosmetic look and feel.
@@oldtwinsna8347 linux has no cosmetic look and feel lmao, Linux is based on Posix standard, which is very heavily a derivative of unix
@@oldtwinsna8347 Linux is not POSIX compliant. But almost all the commercial Unix derivatives are. Heck, even some Windows versions were POSIX compliant. Linux is a derivative of Unix. It isn't just the 'look and feel' (which it certainly does have), it extends under the hood all the way down to how the kernel is architected. It is almost a complete copy of Unix, originally all the way to the command names and output formats, written with independent code. It has evolved since.
My MAC MINI is a high end computer with high end graphics system. For real...
And it's a Unix system, too
I am watching this on an Arch Linux laptop.
I think this Karen is the same woman who gave that famous presentation to Steve Jobs and his team at XEROX PARC.
Sharp has made a colour laptop. wow
What was the date this originally aired? 1985?
+Bruce Salem I saw 1989 at the very end
+Bruce Salem 4/18/89
Watching on Linux Mint Cinnamon 20...
It's amazing to look back at these stupid Unix companies who were too busy suing each other and extracting every cent out of their customers with proprietary vendor lock-in. If they'd opened their products then Linus wouldn't have bothered writing Linux, and Unix would be where Linux is today. RIP.
It reminds me a lot though of distro competition, not necessarily even the distro itself but distro components. People in linux argue x program does it better than y instead of coming together and making an all-around solution. Now we have like dozens of DEs or ways to set up your DE, dozens of compositors, dozens of attempts at solving problems that almost always miss the mark in some area or another.
who cares, the free Unix-like systems we have now are far superior to anything Unix ever was
what's the point in romanticizing proprietary Unix, or any version of Unix of old when we have wonderful systems today that far surpass them
linux is just a kernel that is unlikely to have been anywhere today on its own, or even exist at all without the GNU project creating the GNU system.
Wait is that a flat screen? At 2 minutes?
Hardly. That thing would give you a hernia moving it.
BFD
Berkley Software Distribution
Just like a job interview ...