Everything About the Dumbarton Rail Project Explained in 30 minutes
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2024
- The Bay Area's Dumbarton Rail Bridge is a railroad bridge located over the San Francisco Bay. If this railroad bridge is rebuilt, California High Speed Rail (CAHSR), Caltrain, ACE Rail (Altamont Corridor Express), and Amtrak's Capitol Corridor have the possibility of using this link. Join us to learn about the story of this historic piece of infrastructure.
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This is the only way I know that people are really interested in the topic. Plus it would mean a lot.
It would also mean a lot if you became a patron on either Patreon or UA-cam. I'm a struggling college student. It would definitely help ya boy out.
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Happy to help Banks! And thanks for letting me use my Patreon cameo benefit in this video discussing a bridge in my homeland. Hopefully you'll get other cameos soon. Cheers! --Morgan
Ultimately the blame rests w/ the state legislature. They don’t care enough for rail to have a unified statewide agency manage and fund rail, while they have provided the state w/ an agency which owns, maintains, and operates a statewide system of highways. 15 different rail agencies thru out the state while caltrans does highways. There’s always billions for a new bay bridge but nothing for rail, w/ that money having to come from inconsistent and patchy local sources. It starts from the top.
You can't spell Dumbarton without dumb!
Yup, rail funding in California is so divided when it really doesn’t need to be.
So the money involved has not been significant enough for state wide oversight until recently. We all benefited enormously from roads, but now we have to try something different. Also, because of limited funding we have not developed "experts" in this area.
Apparently you're not aware that CalTrans is broken up into two distinct departments, one dedicated to roadways and one dedicated to rail.
@@zaklex3165 yeah but caltrans owns, maintains, and operates every state route. Caltrain, metrolink, ACE, etc. are all Joint Powers Authorities w/ varying levels of control. Metrolink owns none of its land, they are either owned by freight companies or County Transportation Authorities while stations are owned by the same or by cities. The part between Fullerton and SD County is owned by OCTA, operated by Metrolink, and stations are owned by cities, for example, while the 5 and all its exits are owned and operated by Caltrans. That’s the point I’m trying to get at I know caltrans disperses funding to these specific agencies for rail but it’s scraps and not direct control of the infrastructure at all
With the amount of traffic across the San Mateo and the Dumbarton Bridge each day, this project always made sense, since I first heard it. Union City has a huge new transit center which would greatly benefit from a Caltrain link. There could be more development in the area.
Yup, there’s a lot of usable space for good TOD along the corridor!
The crazy thing is Facebook even at the time could’ve afforded these constructions, even more now as their market capitalization is 1.27tn$ 😅 with profit of like 15bn a year. But we all know the real reason this wasn’t built was local meddling
Yup 🤦🏾♂️
Link21, the major regional rail plan for the greater bay area, central valley and the California State Rail Plan it cites doesn't even include Dumbarton Rail on the map
I’ve seen it be included on some maps, then disappear on others 🤦🏾♂️ definitely shows the lack of political will for the project.
I always want futures Dumbarton Rail Corridor and I always love futures Dumbarton Rail Corridor.😮
Hello Osman Hossain. It's nice to see you throw support for other rail projects besides California HSR.
The legend himself
I do hope they bring back this rail line, Me and my grandfather used to walk on the Dumbarton line from the Redwood Junction all the way to Ravenswood.
Yes and yeah Caltrain Electrifications and California High-Speed Rail in California and I always love Caltrain Electrifications and California High-Speed Rail in California.😮
everytime you upload, i just know i'm about to ingest a lovely, well constructed, well paced, organic, handpicked, interesting, and inspiring piece of media.😭😭😭😭 great video once again
Thanks 🙏🏾 🥹
Great show. You nailed it. Tragic dealy.
Thanks Bob!🙏🏾😁
Yo! New Banks Rail just dropped! We WILL be watching!
it’s crazy because we always drop within a couple days of each other 😂
Watching your video in Dumbarton, Scotland.
Niccceeee
Yes and yeah of course futures Dumbarton Rail Corridor.😮
The way I intake rail news and developments from a completely different continent to my own with the same level of enthusiasm as those of my local community. Here's hoping the Dumbarton Rail Corridor chugga-chuggas once more.
That was the old Southern Pacific "Tracy Line". Went over Altamont Pass and connected Tracy to Bayshore Yard via Redwood City, This bridge was built in 1924. Before the Carquinez Bridge was built in 1930 passenger train cars were ferried across to Benicia, while freight trains went by either Martinez or Altamont Pass to Sacramento via Tracy.
Great info 👍🏾
No I do not like Hyperloop just High-Speed Rail in California.😢
More like hyper loopy
Great video, as always!
Thanks 🙏🏾 😁
Good summary. I think part of the problem is the fact the bridge’s location is on the periphery of three transit districts boundaries and three county limits. When it comes to priorities, policy makers will focus on their own core constituency rather than a project out of sight and out of voters minds. It will need state and federal political will to make Dumbarton Rail a reality.
Thing is, when the three sides (and more) work together on projects like this bridge to solve the common congestion, travel time, stress, and other issues of today's inter-county and interregional travel, which affects all of them, the increased business and revenue opportunities, productivity, quality of life, and other returns on investment and collaboration would help each of their bottom lines. I'm not well-versed in politics but that's my two sense.
Yeah, I wish the counties could work together in the slightest.
the fact that feasibility studies say "no build"...
Yeah and you have fools defending NEPA
Two words: Analysis Paralysis.
If 'studies' were trains, we'd have trains.
@@cathrynm The people who handle feasibility studies have a level of job security most of us can only dream of.
😂 everything about this thread is facts 💯
Done real well, explained clearly and to the point.
Thanks 🙏🏾 😁
California high speed rail could have fully replaced the ACE train and let the BART handle the connectivity to San Jose and Oakland with express service to SAN FRANCISCO
This line is full of old NIMBY’s. Good luck getting this reopened.
It *will* take a lot of political will.
26:30 I don’t remember sending you that news clip 😆
😂 oops
If Dumbarton /Redwood city has space for a third track (loading gauge of track/trains)... that is more than enough room for 1x1 metre square pillars to put another PAIR of Up and Down Railway lines 10m above the lower running tracks.
When elevated with the prestressed concrete struts slotting/joining on top centre of each pillar... the entire build can be very Standardised.
If the pillars are 10m above ground level (for adequate clearance for the low level tracks as well as any ... urgh Level Crossings!)... and the pillars are equally spaced along the route path, then the pillars, and the struts, and the OHLE, and the Signalling, and the Railway Tracks, oh and that cross over sections can be pre-made. The Uniform, Pre-made, can be delivered to site by the low level tracks, lifted to staging areas, and onto/into their perspective locations... all using GOOD Supply Chain 'Just in Time' Management.
A railway, especially a HSR/TGV/AGV etc... does not have to take up as much land as so many seem to think. Each envelope for each direction is less than the width of a US Interstate motorway lane. install pillars that consume land in the amount of 1x1sq Metre columns... with lengths being 50m to 75m (depending on quality of the struts)... and then slab with the tension springs already installed. Track laying becomes easy especially if use 750m to 1km lengths of rail. (less welding = stronger, longer lasting - more durable = less maintenance).
I see the railways in the states having to BUY larger tracts of land... when the railway only needs to LEASE for 999 years the 1sqm dots along their land. Agriculture etc can still occur unhindered.
There was a plan I saw to have a track elevated over the peninsula corridor ROW, so it’s not off the table
Amtrak California Zephyr and San Joaquin To San Francisco from East Bay via Dumbarton Bridge that Would be Great 👍
Good explainer! The fact this is train doesn’t exist yet just shows how massive a policy failure we have in Bay Area transportation. #onemorelane
Thanks Zafarali 🙏🏾😁
Yeah, it’s definitely seems to be a result of the mismatch policies of the different counties.
this is a no brainer. Also be nice to have a Caltrain service from San Jose to Oakland. Though the Bart extension and Amtrak currentley serve that, the silicon Valley extension of Bart is a while away and the amtrak service isn't that great. In addition an Oakland - San Jose line as well as the Dumbarton railcould also feed into a second transbay crossing relieving congestion off of BART. We could effectively turn Caltrain into BART 2.0 here. ACE should also become part of Caltrain
If ACE uses the bridge -- and it should, considering all the Palo Alto/Stanford trips -- I envision ACE becoming part of Caltrain in one way or another. Either a direct annex or perhaps joint operation and name/logo sharing with SJRRC. You'd have one service for multiple big markets, which would benefit the public in terms of a travel solution and user experience as well as Caltrain, SJRRC, and others financially.
I agree, Caltrain and ACE definitely need to consolidate. There might be some initial funding issues, but the merger would pay off in the long run.
I always want California High-Speed Rail in California and I always love California High-Speed Rail in California.😮
Yes and yeah of course Caltrain Electrifications and California High-Speed Rail in California.😮
it had a second fire in 2019 and i believe the last train was actually in the 80s not the 70s
Yup, on the Newark Slough bridge
@@banksrail I think they should already just demolish the current slough bridge and build the non moving bridge as it will save time and the money in the future i mean the fires must have already saved a lot of money for demolishing the timber parts
Letssss gooooo Cal train vid pretty epic
😁
The rail option was the best option
Creosote is literally made from the creosote bush. A moveable bridge can be built with remote and/or automated operations, leaving only the maintenance costs.
It should be remote especially since the bridge won’t be moved much.
Newark Mentioned
Happy Juneteenth
Happy Juneteenth
Happy JT
Happy JT
When Southern Pacific was running the commuter service between San Francisco and San Jose, during rush hour they would run trains on 3 minute headways. That's 20 trains an hour, one way, not including opposing traffic. You don't need 4 tracks to run 12 trains an hour. Chicago's Metra runs a similar schedule to SP's on the Chicago-Aurora triple track line, with some freight traffic mixed in for good measure. Someone's math doesn't add up on the peninsula.
The trains were shorter, and lighter in those days. Quicker accelerating and deceleration. Which made that possible. The longer trains today cant do that safely
such a great video, can't thank you enough!!
Glad you enjoyed it!😁👍🏾
there's also rumors of ferry services on that area.
the ones originating from Alviso (San Jose). so yeah, they need a higher bridge if this pushes thru.
Definitely then 💯
It is already possible to cross the existing Dumbarton Bridge by bicycle.
Great video... do all those mass transit characters dropped off by the bus at the start of your video going segments to speak on transit..? Would be cool/funny/different, especially if they had nitchs for what they spoke on.
Thanks 🙏🏾 😁
Those are my patrons, the $10 membership allows for members to have their characters animated and talk during the video.
Petit as in the truss has an anglicized pronunciation: "pet it" (like, when you see a cat, you pet it). It's not the French pronunciation for something small in the feminine form (petite).
Got it👍🏾
Awesome video!
Thanks!🙏🏾 😁
26:11 We need to go further than that and standardize all rail lines. We just need one or two rolling stock that can be configured to run on HSR, CalTrain, ACE, BART, and even Metro/LightRail etc. It's madness that separate, competing public rail agencies fight to protect their turf at the cost of dysfunctional and expensive services.
It not so much the rail agencies that are doing the fighting. It’s more of the counties that fund them
If Caltrain going electrified, you might do a under ground tunnel that goes under Dumbarton instead of brand new bridge. Its just an idea.
The studied that, but crossed it out due to financial and environmental concerns.
DRC is not going to be electrified because once it reaches fremont it goes into UP territory
If this gets built then the DB buses become useless and the transbay M can return as a full time service
The Dumbarton rail idea has four problems: 1) The $3 billion cost is just insane, 2) it competes with BART, which has expanded south from Fremont (first to Warm Springs, then to San Jose Berryessa, and now BART is "thumbs up" with going to downtown San Jose), 3) it competes with Caltrain, which has spent huge sums to electrify its line, and 4) it competes with CAHSR, which plans to spend incomparable sums of money to go from Gilroy to San Francisco.
It doesn’t compete, it compliments. The corridor doesn’t parallel any of these rail lines.
With this latest one, I feel like I'm watching the Project Farm of transportation history(this is a good thing).
😂 thanks 🙏🏾
Hey, Banks, I saw your comment on AF's video on congestion pricing. You're the NYer, what's your take? The IBX too.
My question is, what's the composition of vehicles going into Lower Manhattan? If most of these vehicles are delivery trucks. You're going to need to make exemptions of some sort out you'll just tank the local economy.
And what's your personal feel/view on the crime in NYC? I personally don't like to take transit here in SF because I don't feel safe. (And they're terribly slow) And this issue is hitting LA, all the major cities.
The quad tracking can't work vertically? Especially given the junction at CP Dumbarton needing vertical separation anyway. But I don't know, I'm not a rail engineer.
Upper level no problem
Well at RWC Station you'd want a common platform for services toward SF for ease of use purposes (i.e. passengers there could board any northbound (or westbound) train coming from SJ or the East Bay without having to determine which platform would have the sooner train at any given time). For a single-level quad-track, I'd say the station would be far enough away from CP Dumbarton for the "beginning" of a vertical separation to not interfere with the station. That said, I'd say two level quad-track could work as well, as long as each level has a dedicated direction.
There was actually a plan to have the train elevated over corridor, so it’s definitely plausible.
Why not build multiple layers of viaducts to grade separate and quadtrack the redwood city section?
There was a plan to have the Dumbarton corridor elevated over the peninsula corridor so it’s definitely plausible.
Here is also something to think about
The dumbarton road bridge is 40 years this year
If it were in need of replacement
You could build both bridges simultaneously cutting down on coast and having them be independent structures
This has the most probability
The bay bridge carquinez Benicia Martinez have all had major changes and replacements done
The dumbarton is on that list of major upgrade
There have trans bay bus services that have not been very popular
Compare that with ride share companies
Rail infrastructure it to expensive with have the funds in hand
Infrastructure-wise the road bridge is pretty young
This project is a no brainer. But since that describes the status of those that need to get it done. . . . But I live in Michigan where they can't even spell rail. So this project will get done long before any Michigan rail projects.
Waiting for someone else to pay for a local transit project is the mentality of most Californian projects, including Cal HSR.
If they had just rebuilt the damaged by fire side as double track for 200 million, it could have been in operation all these years and people would Know the actual benefits of double tracking the other side phase two then eventually replace bridge .
Now the studies have cost 200 million by now !
Yup, could’ve been built decades ago 🤦🏾♂️
I wish it would get built but I'm not holding my breath
These AI voices are such a distraction.
Hey, if anyone wants to voice act, they’re more than welcome to😂
It would be great if the old bridges were placed in a museum.
Would be nice to see in an engineering or architecture museum
Yes and yeah of course California High-Speed Rail in California.😮
Lower level upper level if you want to quad track
A couple of things, and I can say this because I live in the Bay Area and drive throughout the Bay Area.
Yes, drive. Our transit is a joke. The countries love to act like they're independent, none of the planners have been to Asia, none of the engineers have studied in Europe, and as usual, none of the politicians know Jack Sh1t.
For the Dumbarton Bridge that carries Highway 84, there is already a pedestrian/bike lane on the north side of the bridge, so the bikeway proposal from FB would mostly just need planning on the end of the bridge... Which might already exist but i haven't paid attention that far.
The traffic on that bridge during rush hour is absolutely lopsided, red towards FB during the morning and green going away and vice versa during the evening.
The bridge has 3+3 lanes but no shoulder. If you want to install a busway, BRT or not as I'm not a believer in BRT, you'll need to either expand/build a new bridge for the Busway... Expansion is possible seeing that this was done on the San Mateo Bridge. But if you build a busway bridge, you might as well build the train bridge...
The other busway option, which would be supremely unpopular, is to have a reversible 3+1+2 situation, sort of like what's being done on Golden Gate Bridge. The commute direction gains a bus lane, and you can charge carpool users if they want to use, and counter-commute loses a lane, but the impact is low due to lower traffic. Trucks and buses will need to stick to slow lane there. I don't know if the vehicle lanes are wide enough for the job either.
26:36 Correction: "And becoming more and more like an intercity rail passenger service rather than a joke"
Counties acting independent is one of the largest problems with transit in the Bay Area. There are wayyyy too many transit agencies in the region. It’s like 26+. That’s wild!
Yes 100%
💯
could the new bridge be built a beside th existing brindge i do not see how to polution fre taredown the existing bridge is any of the remaining bridge parts sound enogh to use as a look out onto the historick bridge,
That would be an interesting idea
Dungbarton
Oh. It COULD handle everything. But WILL IT? Doubtful. Too Many $$$$ required.
It's so nice to see minorities doing a great site !!
PLAN is a four letter word, but not a bad one. Except for government.
In theory it's a good idea
But your talking about at lest 1 billion dollars
That right of way is owned by one of the railroads
Half of it collapsed years ago
You would have to raise property taxes and increase fares
That's not possible right now
With the electrification of caltrain the bay area with have not a complete loop be the original vision will be there
The rights of way is owned by the public.
If we stop pouring the wealth of our nation on foreign wars, we could easily pay for this construction.
Multiple bond issues over the years passed with this project promised and never delivered because all of the money went to the expansion of BART down to San Jose, it is and always will be a shell game with the Metropolitan Transportation Commission and the generous transit unions that run BART and the money that they use to fill the pockets of the local Democratic Party Regime.
60 feet is more than enough for four tracks with the most common track spacing in the US, putting the outside tracks 40' apart measured at the centerlines of the two outside tracks. This spacing is similar to the most common spacing for passenger service in Europe where there are al kinds of government specifications and standards. It's good up to about 120-or-125mph, which is probably as fast as you'd want to go in such a built up and thickly peopled area and the Caltrain corridor. With grade crossings that speed is ridiculous even though they claim it's ok to go that fast on the Lincoln Corridor in IL. They spent a billion for nothing on that. You can still see where the 1-track line used to be two back about 100 years ago. The people involved in this stuff, and in CAHSR, are gangsters, garbage. i.e. it's deliberate, it's the rail cabal.I won't make any suggestions about the fire.
The US has a larger loading gauge, therefore the FRA requires wider standards. Remember, the trains need catenary supports as well, adding to the width needed.
@@banksrail Well they really don't require any standards, unless it's to manipulate a project so as to make it untenable. They do that a lot. The Northeast Corridor, for example, has a lot of 12.5' spacing (that makes the outside tracks 37.5' apart o.c.) That's all under catenary. The Notorious Frankford curve in Philly has that spacing. It's impossible for 85' cars to employ tilt technology in a situation like that. And in CT its worse - 12' spacing - from 1907 when the 4-track all-electric New Haven Railroad was extended to Stamford. This is from the days before 60' became the standard length for a while, then 85. The Avelia cars are about 70' long, to allow more freedom to tilt on these obsolete configs. (I think some problem with disabling the tilting, to allow running in these tight places like Frankford and Southern CT, is causing the delay. I know they've had funds programmed to broaden the CT part since before the pandemic, but nothing happens.) On the other hand though, in Penn Station NY, where they have 6 tangent tracks all adjacent and 12' apart, starting at the end of the tunnel (10th Ave.) that run up to the big propagation of tracks under 9th Avenue.(Interlocking A) the close spacing is for a reason, and allows trains to switch tracks with the least motion possible, to make it fast and smooth. That's not obsolete, though they desperately want to destroy it. It is physically impossible to serve more passengers or provide more train capacity in that two-block-wide space, with any but the existing config.
Theres no way this corridor can be restored,as it is new corridors are years off at best,then is the problem of running current services to coexist with Host Railroads!
Host Railroads wouldn’t be too much of a problem, but budgeting definitely is.
@banksrail ,Yup,not to go route of politics,but we're funding all these deadend highway projects,Homelessness projects and so on but can't even be bothered with rail,after all an encampment Fire could be what burned down that western span of the Dumbarton rail bridge!
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Thanks 🙏🏾 😁
Locals don’t want it and the assemblypersons and senators don’t want the hassle of fighting against angry neighbors.
It’s interesting I don’t think many locals even really know about the project, since it’s not really publicized.
All this fuss over one lousy railroad bridge. Rest of the world, they'd have just built the thing 25 years ago.
Yup 🤦🏾♂️
Hey Banks Rail, what'd you do, get a haircut or something?
🤫
That bridge is never going to happen. If it was, it would have been repaired and built already. It's better to abandon the bridge, let BART go around the bay and connect back in Millbrae. It isn't a "new" crossing either, it's an old abandoned crossing rebuilt.
I disagree in the sense that this bridge is never going to happen. I still think it should be both Standard gauge and BART technology. Not only standard gauge but also for BART trains as well.
Get gauge changing trains first
@@Alejandro-vn2sino need reroute ACE and increase service via this bridge.
Like a said before, the bridge would be great for intercity traffic, something that BART can’t fully offer.
Lol,it won't ever happen!
Even that said due to property,land acquisitions they also won't be able to triple/quad track the Peninsula mainline for increased Caltrain service/CAHSR,etc!
what's up with the avatar........
👀
I built that bathtub girderBridge@kaiserFabrication heavyDutyBay
🛤🚝🛤
How about you run for local congress. You are knowledgeable and you are smart. So please help fill congress state, local or federal with people like you that have a brain.
🤞🏾eventually. That’s why I’m trying to build up enough of a following so people in politics can’t ignore us.
If this gets built then the DB buses become useless and the transbay M can return as a full time service
Ironically operating funds for the DB rail are now being used for the DB Express. Since the pandemic the DB Corridor transit ridership has recovered faster than the Bay Bridge Corridor. It shows the corridor is still relevant for rail services.
Yeah they could just move back the funding for the DB Express back to the rail project.