Vecoma who?I hope you know this is the table only for Premier ride fans!!! Imagine there was battles in between fans of manufactures sort of like how magic mountain fanboy, and Seater point fanboy had arguments
Weird how Vekoma used to be the company who made rougher and lower quality rides and B&M were the premium manufacturers, and now it seems they’ve switched places
Vekoma's business acumen has always been elite. They were known for their rough coasters because those were the ones(SLCs/Boomerangs)that sold. Despite the poor ride quality parks still bought them, likely in part because they had great customer service due to their ability to easily and cheaply replace parts in their standardized designs. Those type of rides initially boost attendance regardless of how comfortable they are. They've actually been designing very smooth, heartlined coasters for quite some time though...Millennium and the Rock and Roller Coasters are great examples and they were built in the 90s
Parks bought them because they were cheap and available. Six Flags didn’t really care what they were putting in during the 90s and 2000s. That’s why there are so many off the shelf clones at Six Flags parks. They just needed something new every year. B&M used to be very limited how many coasters they could build in a season. But Vekoma has really stepped up their design and manufacturing. With B&M, who knows what happened?
The family coasters always where one of the best in the world. Now you might not know it because the family inverts from vekoma in the US ussualally suck to high heaven, almost none do in europe where i'm from. And thats also true for al vekoma's not so thrill rides. (yeah the SLC can suck in europe to, we probable have the two worst ones that are still operating).
I’ve actually heard that the problem with modern B&Ms isn’t the company themselves and instead the subcontractors that manufacture the wheel bogeys. B&M does not build their own wheel assemblies, and the theory goes that they expanded their tolerances. Engineering tolerances are a big part of why older B&Ms are so smooth, but they’re also why B&Ms are traditionally super expensive additions. And post-pandemic, parks are looking for the cheapest investments, and so to compete, the subcontractor increased their tolerances. This keeps costs down but also introduces more variables into the motion of the bogeys, hence the rattle.
@@CoasterStudios Ryan the Ridemechanic goes into detail about this theory on his youtube channel and it is very deep into how ride parts and coaches work in general as well. So if you are interested, look it up. His videos are great as a former ride mechanic, building ride parts out of cardboard.
Maybe on to something there. I notice the roughness is way worse on Penguin Trek, but it's not the whole ride. It seems like some of the tighter turns are very rough and rattly which makes me wonder if it is a wheel assembly problem that is only noticeable in the tighter sections of track.
That may be a part of it, however while observing testing footage of Rapterra it also looks like the track is quite literally crooked. While there are no super recent high thrill additions which were made by B&M in Europe or Asia (for comparison) I think that the B&M track manufacturing plant in the US may have something to do with the ride quality.
Nah I thought so too but he starts moving before it cuts away lol. Sometimes you just gotta experience it with your eyes closed - it's an entirely different experience.
My biggest complaint is 1 train. I was worried about the rattle because some people kept bringing it up, but I honestly thought it was pretty smooth. I think it's a great addition for the family.
Good review. I was also disappointed in the roughness (although Penguin Trek was far worse). I had no idea it was suppose to have audio. It annoys me when a park does things half-baked - I feel like they could have put a little more though into it and made a stupendous family ride but they rushed it out and cut corners, which isn’t in line with the rest of the park’s amazing rides.
Swing launches are fine and actually quite rare. The amount of trains is determined by the buyer and if there is space for it. The manufacturer doesn't get the final say in that.
Yuuuup. Such is the life of our cursed park. But on the other hand... all of Valleyfair's other coasters are old and janky as well, so we probably won't notice lmao.
It truly is unfortunate what’s happening with B&M. While I like iron menace, I cannot deny that the ride is extremely shaky. I haven’t ridden penguin trek or Phoenix rising yet, but if all the new B&M products have been shaky, it worries me about the future of their products. Truly upsetting. I really hope they can fix the issues their rides are having.
Old B&Ms typically ran in the $20-$30 million dollar range. Hell, Orion, a smaller giga than Fury, was MORE expensive despite being smaller. And in a post-pandemic economy, no regional park wants to spend that much money. So the theory is that one of B&M’s subcontractors lessened their tolerances to lower costs, but this change ended up introducing extra variables that contribute to the vibration.
Honestly, I always forget this coaster exists it kind of reminds me of that alien species from Doctor Who called the silence. If you look directly at the coaster, it is beautiful and fun to watch, but as soon as you look away, you immediately forget about it
This was my 7yr old daughters first coaster and we're lucky she loves it. Only having 1 train is ridiculous, I'm not even sure there's a good excuse for this
The first problem I found on the passholder preview day was the time it spent in the station. I counted about 3 - 5 minutes each time within the station, and no, that wasn't just because it was a brand new ride with "unknown technology" or whatever. That overhead lap-bar restraint doesn't take 5 minutes for everybody to get situated properly. It spends more time in the station then it actually does in its exactly 1 minute long layout. Although this is a great addition and somewhat improvement of this area of the park, I do see a future issue where there's only 1 train with these slow operations. I actually went back not to long ago and the operations were slightly increased in efficiency, but it was still long.
I wonder if they've changed their tolerances in certain areas of engineering. Almost every new b&m I've ridden has a little bit of a shimmy/shake/ rattle
I was recently at Dollywood and they have a great little family coaster in Dragonflier. It is a very fun ride with great near miss elements. But it has very long lines for a short ride because it also only has one train. I am sure that having a shorter and simpler coaster using one train saves money and space requirements but waiting in 45 minute to hour long lines with kids really hurts the park experience. Dragonflier would be perfection with a longer brake run to allow two train operations. Big Bear Mountain is another great family coaster. Vekoma is making some very nice family rides that everyone can enjoy.
Weird how that works, isn't it? How easily our brains are duped/fooled. Our brains are so adapt at picking out patterns, that sometimes, they pick out patterns that don't even exist.
in my opinion i think its great for the space that they had to work with and i like it more than penguin trek despite it being way shorter. there really is some nice whip in some spots and i think its really fun. its worth noting that this ride i believe has different trains than the ones in china like i think those don't have a lapbar and also don't have onboard audio so that could be why this ride has a rattle and i'm assuming those don't
I haven’t been on Phoenix Rising, but I did go on Sand Serpent. This looks like a great successor to the old wild mouse, and I’m excited to go in a few months.
Gotta be honest I rode Scorpion my last trip to BGT and outside of Cheetah Hunt is was by far the longest wait I had in the park. So this is not a problem that is unique to Phoenix Rising.
Im hoping that WoRev is great. I am one of those people that loved BBW. I am worried after hearing about this ride and especially after seeing Rapterra bounce down the launch track.
ONE TRAIN?! What were they thinking?! B&M shouldn't have let that happen. B&M has really fallen from excellence. Nobody knows what happened?! When Mako came out they were still on point. Make is super smooth, or was in 2016-2017.
Busch Gardens Williamsburg is my home park as well and since I am finally being stationed back in Va Beach this year, I really am excited for a BBW revival, but I hope its not this "boring".
If this is the future of B&M then Six Flags Great Adventure might as well have just kept Green Lantern and ordered a sit-down conversion with a new theme and some renovation. Who would've even known the difference? Rather just get a dive too if it's going to be a rough wing launch (we'll see about Rapterra).
Vekoma figured it out two decades ago. Even Walibi Holland can keep the onboard audio mostly running on their boomerang. Mind you, that's a boomerang with stupidly much shake and stupidly high random force spikes.
I've been on Pheonix Rising multiple times now and have also been on more than 100 other roller coasters. The points made in this video are spot on. I was very disappointed in the lack of smoothness and it's a shame there is only one train.
@SkyrushFanboy wow I've talked to so many ppl that would say we r nuts. Both are great but kumba is more intense and that roar is majestic. Plus how it wraps into the environment
So what was the last actually smooth B&M? I freaking loved my rides on Emperor over in San Diego. And for what it’s worth, Pipeline’s not horrible in this department. But there’s literally no excuse for rides like Phoenix Rising, Penguin Trek or Iron Menace to be as rattly as they are.
Great video. Totally agree about the queue and lack of a second train. I skipped it on a weekend visit since the ride was always a minimum 45 minute wait. That can’t be good on a busy, hot day. Weekday visit had no wait so tried it a few times. I thought it was a solid ride, super fun, looks great, has a cool lighting package and the ride experience with custom possibilities to me make it almost a replacement for Arrow suspendeds so looking forward to what they do in Williamsburg. I didn’t notice any vibrations or roughness last month-Certainly nothing that took away from the ride experience. Maybe because I’m used to shaky B&Ms, this was not really noticeable (all hypers with the staggered seating, Batman at Six Flags New England and the OG loopers like Kumba and Dragon Khan). There was nothing on the screens and no music on the trains-I really had no idea those were supposed to be part of the ride so maybe they don’t use the effects on slow days or turned them off completely already? A bummer either way. Hopefully kinks are worked out for Williamsburg. It was a fun ride but agree that the new Vekomas seem more fun and the new Intamin suspended family coasters, like DrageKongen, are much more fun in comparison.
This doesn't bode well for BBW: wolfs revenge I hope they can iron out the issues with Phoenix Rising and learn from it operations wise although BBW 2 should have multiple trains with the multiple block zones. Nice review Taylor. Rough brand new B&M go figure 🤦🏻♂️
Regarding the queue--this is Florida and I was surprised that it was uncovered and in the sun. They put a few fabric shades over it, but much of the time you're standing in the sun, which can be intense. I can't think of any other coaster at BGT whose queue isn't covered.
Pheonix is shakey but it doesn't ruin the ride for me, I love it. On the other hand, the shake on Penguin Trek does indeed ruin that ride for me, so I hear ya! Unfortunately, I can't be excited about any new B&M's for now...
As someone who's first coaster was Montu, I agree. I am glad to be rid of that terrible mouse coaster, but I also despise mouse coasters in general for their rough sharp turns and jerking manner. I think Tigris (RIP Tidal Wave) and Phoenix Rising were both coasters that could have been given a bit more attention and fit the park a little better but I still enjoy going and will ride most rides depending on the wait time.
When I rode it the dispatch times were about 2 minutes per train which felt like FOREVER for such a small number of riders. But a fair number of smaller kids needed help getting into the seat so I guess I understand. But slow dispatch and one train ops are going to kill this thing. I didn't notice the roughness, but it was a warm day and I was in the front row. It was nothing compared to the back row of Penguin Trek! Holy cow PT feels so janky for a brand new B&M! The 30 year old B&Ms at BGT and SWO feel smoother!
I think the roughness might come from the extended headroom - I think the high-intensity inverts sit closer to the track and so wouldn't sway as much, leading to less roughness
This is a bit random but this reminded me of emperor at SWSD. It opened in 2022, and was glass smooth back then, even in the back. Like I could probably serve dinner on there if there weren’t 3 inversions. Now it’s rattly as hell, especially in the back row. Bad maintenance and poor aging, but it times out with the new “bad” B&M’s so it’s just fueling the fire
@D4stroyedNope. Iron menace was a mess. Nemesis Reborn. It was literally their perfect model and most built and it was just a retrack. Still rattley as hell, and keep in mind the original nemesis had no rattle. Rapterra can literally be seen to be bouncy on the STRAIGHT launch track. As far as im aware both iron menace, nemesis and rapterra are high thrill.
Having ridden Penguin Trek several times now, it’s got a rattle also that’s very noticeable. Almost sounds like something hasn’t been tightened. But it’s on every train on that one. You can feel it on the ride also. I dunno what’s going on with B&M. I dunno if they changed something to cut on costs or a new design/style but something has changed and not for the better. They know how to make world class rides and I hope they do make more in the future
Hey Taylor, I will be looking forward for a review of the new Big Bad Wolf next year. By the way, I remember you saying in an old video that you rode the original Wolf before it closed. Will you review that coaster?
great question. I only actually rode Big Bad Wolf once, and I was pretty young so I don't remember as many details as I do with other coasters. That, along with the fact that I have no footage to show of it means there will not be a review for the original Big Bad Wolf
I agree, I’ve been on pheonix rising about 6-7 times at this point & it’s pretty discouraging how shaky it is. It’d be a lot better had it been buttery smooth. I feel like the plastic at the top has a lot to do with that annoying rattle as well.
The two times I rode it, I was near the middle, so I didn't notice a shake or anything like that. One of the complaints I have is that it feels like there was supposed to be a shade structure over one area of the queue.
Is it possible it’s not so much a B&M design issue but a Clermont Steel build quality issue? Funny how that facility has always kinda flown under the radar.
Speaking of Phoenix, that Mattel park has been leaving track pieces out when it's 115 degrees, I feel like that thing is going to be incredibly rough when they open it
The going theory is a part that B&M source from an external manufacturer might have changed a tolerance slightly. Unfortunately even just a millimeter difference can amplify shake. I hope they figure it out.
Personally when I rode it I enjoyed it and didn't really notice any shake or rattle. The on board audio was also working fine when I was there. I enjoyed it a lot but still definitely wouldn't wait longer than like 20 minutes for it lol.
I felt the shakiness when I rode it the beginning of December I enjoyed but I was like is this really a B&M because of the shaking but it’s still a great ride and yes I wish they did have a second train
I rode Phoenix Rising over the Summer and was underwhelmed as well. You hit some valid points in your commentary, but the main thing that stood out was how "accessible" the coaster was. Its placement was not well planned with its station behind a short queue. The ride itself did nothing for me, but then again, it's a family coaster, so you could say that my thrill expectations were not high to begin with.
I wonder if catering to families (by many manufacturers, not just B&M) led B&M to decide that they could cut costs since they were building smaller cheaper rides. Maybe the impetus to build such high quality coasters went down because they weren't trying to build standout rides but more easily cloned rides for a less discriminating audience. But that's basically looking at the Vekoma model from the 80s and 90s and applying it to family coasters and thinking "that's the ticket."
I think a lot of people have to keep in mind that although b and m designs the coasters, there’s a lot of parts, including the track, that someone else makes. If one of those companies starts lacking in quality, well so is b and m, even if it has nothing to do with them. So it might just be a matter of them finding a different company to make parts for them, and that could fix these issues
I feel like what happened is B&M is trying to cut costs, they likely removed the vibration dampeners for some reason, I wouldn't make that move personally, but I feel like that's gotta be the reason. I've heard multiple people say the same thing, it's gotta be that and other factors too.
It’s because no park would ever buy an older B&M today: not in a post-pandemic economy where cheaper investments are a must for regional parks. And the going theory is that a subcontractor for the company adjusted their engineering tolerances to save costs, but ultimately is introducing additional variables that cause vibration.
I think the layout and forces of it are wonderful and it’s still really fun, especially being pulled over the lift in the back, but wow that rattle on any more intense model would be downright awful. I think it’s probably the weakest coaster in the park (not including Grover cause I’ve never gotten around to riding it) but I’ll still ride it whenever possible regardless. It is probably the second best theming for a coaster in the park though which also helps elevate the overall experience, the station was really neat to watch while in line.
ALSO, the “breakdowns” aren’t actually your typical breakdowns, it’s people (usually kids) wandering too close to the lift hill opening in the station and triggering an automatic shutdown. It happened in line and since we were next up for the back row we talked with the ride opp back there and he explained it pretty clearly. It’s just that the exit isn’t super clear to a kid who’s probably not paying attention to what happens once people get off or people talking to their groups so they trip the system and they need maintenance to come reset it. He also told us that without that they get 20+ dispatches an hour pretty easily, sometimes doubling the capacity. So really just clearer instructions, more signs & such would really help get this things line down and keep it up for longer periods of time.
Most normal weekdays lines are no more than 30 minutes and most of them are near walk on but during major holidays such as right now in between Christmas and New Year’s I have seen wait times become 10 times longer than even the Disney and Universal parks. Today the wait times on half of the park’s at attractions at BGT were reported at over 3 hours while Disney and Universal had insanely long lines, but most of them were about 90 minutes-2.5 hours at most mainly because of their amazing capacity and operations, despite those parks getting 4 times busier than BGT. Obviously the rides at BGT that had over a 3 hour wait were Chetah Hunt because it is always been the most popular attraction there, Iron Gwazi because the operations on that are horrendous, this and Tigris because they can only run one train.
It looks like they are feeding off of the Williamsburg location. Alpinegiest is a hanging coaster and the big bad wolf that they use to have was also a hanging coaster, but looks like from this video that they both faired better than this new coaster.
The worst part is the queue is not only small but limited shade. This isnt bad in the fall/winter but I rode it in the summer and it was brutal waiting in the sun for close to an hour with no shade in sight.
Here's a big issue as well.. If Busch Gardens was thinking about building a Giga using B&M, I'm sure that this made them reconsider... hopefully. I'd love an Intamin, Mack, or Vekoma.
I don’t know what happened with B&M. Iron Menace and several others all suffer from roughness that shouldn’t be the case for a brand new ride. People have reported that Nemesis now runs rough where prior to the rebuild wasn’t the case. Hope these issues can resolved.
People complain about the 1 train, sure it sucks but in total from each dispatch, it is about 3 minutes which is equivalent to 1 dispatch on Iron Gwazi.
The new owners of Busch gardens just isn’t doing it. While I love Iron Gwazi, it has a very low ride dispatch…then they build things like Cobras Curse, Tigris, and now Phoenix Rising and all of them have lower capacity. Oh yeah…and then they close Scorpion. I’ve also got to talk about these new B&Ms….dont love the rattle…don’t love the seats. The seats in Phoenix Rising are very tight and uncomfortable. I felt like I was riding in a Premier train. Penguin Trek isn’t much better.
Jump over to Williamsburg and they got the most average wooden coaster after not being able too forever. Replaced an excellent dark ride with an indoor coaster with awful capacity that barely does anything. But at least they are protective of their Arrow classic? Hope they never do that idiotic "drachen spire" thing either.
@@oneandonlysound99I wasn’t thrilled with Invadr or the new Darkoaster. I preferred the old Curse of Darkastle dark ride. Really wish they’d sell these parks off to someone who truly cares.
The reason older b&ms are smoothe is because the original founders where with the company and after they left a new group of people took over which then changed the way the company operates and builds coaster
We go to BGT most years, in fact we are visiting next week. We went in August and were going to ride but it broke down and didnt have enough interest to circle back to it. We will try to ride it when we go again, and this review was helpful. BGT as a year around park should not have an attraction that can only run one train, it makes no sense. In the slower months running one train can make sense, but not summer, fall, holidays, etc. Saying that, its an improvement over a cloned wild mouse that looked out of place at a park like BGT. I also continue to wonder why B & M aren't smooth the past several years. Are they cutting corners to compete with Vekoma and others in the family market? Are they too busy? BGT should have put in a Gravity Group woodie for a smooth family friendly attaction. They do need family rides, and a big bear mountain ride would be a nice fit here too. Good idea, not executed well though from the looks and sounds of it.
on the gravity group part - that would have actually been worse since the florida climate would have wiped out the track (looking at Gwazi and how that went down)
@@dracherongames9528 fair point. But sea world did put a GCI in San Antonio recently, not a cold climate. A steel coaster probably would be a better match.
The breakdowns are a result of riders walking behind the last car and forces an estop. Ride attendants have complained that people get off the ride and get on their phone and walk behind the last car and set off the estop.
@@CoasterStudiosYep. They said maintenance has to reset the ride and they could be anywhere in the park at the time hence why some downtimes are longer than others.
The single train might have been a conscious decision so that the train doesn't stop anywhere other than the station under normal operation. Younger kids might get scared if the train stops anywhere else, so being able to say "we'll be coming right back here" allays some of those fears.
I think BGT needs a Giga (of course) and something like Bear Mountain in Dollywood. A very long multi-launch family coaster. After that their line-up would be pretty much perfect.
@@scataplaft I meant that Cheetah Hunt is basically BGT's equivalent to Big Bear Mountain. Even though Cheetah Hunt does invert, it's still totally a family coaster.
@@bassjasinski seemed like to me they figured it out a bit on Rapterra. Launch looks weird but other than that Rapterra looks glass smooth through the whole layout.
Should've gotten a Vekoma.
Mr. Vekoma has entered the chat
Never thought we’d be talking about how a park should’ve gotten a vekoma and not a b&m
🤣🤣🤣
Vecoma who?I hope you know this is the table only for Premier ride fans!!! Imagine there was battles in between fans of manufactures sort of like how magic mountain fanboy, and Seater point fanboy had arguments
Should have gotten a new Vekoma flyer model.
Weird how Vekoma used to be the company who made rougher and lower quality rides and B&M were the premium manufacturers, and now it seems they’ve switched places
indeed
oh, how the tables have turned
Vekoma's business acumen has always been elite. They were known for their rough coasters because those were the ones(SLCs/Boomerangs)that sold. Despite the poor ride quality parks still bought them, likely in part because they had great customer service due to their ability to easily and cheaply replace parts in their standardized designs. Those type of rides initially boost attendance regardless of how comfortable they are. They've actually been designing very smooth, heartlined coasters for quite some time though...Millennium and the Rock and Roller Coasters are great examples and they were built in the 90s
Parks bought them because they were cheap and available. Six Flags didn’t really care what they were putting in during the 90s and 2000s. That’s why there are so many off the shelf clones at Six Flags parks. They just needed something new every year. B&M used to be very limited how many coasters they could build in a season. But Vekoma has really stepped up their design and manufacturing. With B&M, who knows what happened?
The family coasters always where one of the best in the world. Now you might not know it because the family inverts from vekoma in the US ussualally suck to high heaven, almost none do in europe where i'm from. And thats also true for al vekoma's not so thrill rides. (yeah the SLC can suck in europe to, we probable have the two worst ones that are still operating).
my how the mighty have fallen. when did we EVER think that we would be preferring a Vekoma over a B&M?
B&M needs to watch this review and take a hard look at themselves
I’ll always take an SLC over this 😂
i started getting ideas after i saw this
ua-cam.com/users/shorts8eXomtVF4Gc
I’ve actually heard that the problem with modern B&Ms isn’t the company themselves and instead the subcontractors that manufacture the wheel bogeys. B&M does not build their own wheel assemblies, and the theory goes that they expanded their tolerances. Engineering tolerances are a big part of why older B&Ms are so smooth, but they’re also why B&Ms are traditionally super expensive additions. And post-pandemic, parks are looking for the cheapest investments, and so to compete, the subcontractor increased their tolerances. This keeps costs down but also introduces more variables into the motion of the bogeys, hence the rattle.
a solid theory!
That still makes it B&M's fault if they started using crappier suppliers.
@@CoasterStudios Ryan the Ridemechanic goes into detail about this theory on his youtube channel and it is very deep into how ride parts and coaches work in general as well. So if you are interested, look it up. His videos are great as a former ride mechanic, building ride parts out of cardboard.
Maybe on to something there. I notice the roughness is way worse on Penguin Trek, but it's not the whole ride. It seems like some of the tighter turns are very rough and rattly which makes me wonder if it is a wheel assembly problem that is only noticeable in the tighter sections of track.
That may be a part of it, however while observing testing footage of Rapterra it also looks like the track is quite literally crooked. While there are no super recent high thrill additions which were made by B&M in Europe or Asia (for comparison) I think that the B&M track manufacturing plant in the US may have something to do with the ride quality.
Imagine you 10 years ago reacting to this video, specifically the quote “I really just got off this thing wishing it was a Vekoma…”.
crazy how times have changed
LOL that's so true
@@CoasterStudiosWe need another coaster parody with Mr. Vekoma’s redemption arc
"Should've built a Vekoma" - Coaster Parody has gon full circle lol
The guy at 7:37 was passed out! 😭
The ride is not that bad! 😮😅😂
Nah I thought so too but he starts moving before it cuts away lol. Sometimes you just gotta experience it with your eyes closed - it's an entirely different experience.
I thought bored at first 😂
@@crayder1100 that was him regaining consciousness just before the clip cuts. He was 100% passed out 🤣🤣
He was definitely trolling
My biggest complaint is 1 train. I was worried about the rattle because some people kept bringing it up, but I honestly thought it was pretty smooth. I think it's a great addition for the family.
Good review. I was also disappointed in the roughness (although Penguin Trek was far worse). I had no idea it was suppose to have audio. It annoys me when a park does things half-baked - I feel like they could have put a little more though into it and made a stupendous family ride but they rushed it out and cut corners, which isn’t in line with the rest of the park’s amazing rides.
I’ve done two of them in China and they rode 100% smooth
dang, that just makes me more sad lol.
dear coaster manufacturers, end the single train and swing launch era soon pleaseeeeeee
Outside of Intamin I don't care too much for them. Top Thrill 2 is so awkward.
@@lastone032085 The old TTD had 6 trains. How many does TT2 have?
not happening lol
It’s to save money. Not because they actually prefer this.
Swing launches are fine and actually quite rare. The amount of trains is determined by the buyer and if there is space for it. The manufacturer doesn't get the final say in that.
Valleyfair fans: We want an B&M invert!
Six Flags, probably: Here you go!
-_-
Yeah . . . with how newer B&Ms have been lately, I’d much rather have a Vekoma STC like Na Fienna Force at Valleyfair. -__-
Yuuuup. Such is the life of our cursed park.
But on the other hand... all of Valleyfair's other coasters are old and janky as well, so we probably won't notice lmao.
I can see the static scrim hanging over those malfunctioning LED screens like it already happened
It truly is unfortunate what’s happening with B&M. While I like iron menace, I cannot deny that the ride is extremely shaky. I haven’t ridden penguin trek or Phoenix rising yet, but if all the new B&M products have been shaky, it worries me about the future of their products. Truly upsetting. I really hope they can fix the issues their rides are having.
Penguin trek is shaky took especially in the back rows after the second launch
The tagline needs amending from Should've got a B&M to should've got a Vekoma.
Crazy how they've switched places almost.
Can confirm that the prototypes in China are VERY smooth. Something must’ve been happening at B&M with all their new rides having smoothness issues.
Old B&Ms typically ran in the $20-$30 million dollar range. Hell, Orion, a smaller giga than Fury, was MORE expensive despite being smaller. And in a post-pandemic economy, no regional park wants to spend that much money. So the theory is that one of B&M’s subcontractors lessened their tolerances to lower costs, but this change ended up introducing extra variables that contribute to the vibration.
I think it's funny how an almost 30 year old coaster at the same park is smoother.
Honestly, I always forget this coaster exists it kind of reminds me of that alien species from Doctor Who called the silence. If you look directly at the coaster, it is beautiful and fun to watch, but as soon as you look away, you immediately forget about it
This was my 7yr old daughters first coaster and we're lucky she loves it.
Only having 1 train is ridiculous, I'm not even sure there's a good excuse for this
11:10 not taylor wanting to ask kids if they could feel the rattle 😂😂
The first problem I found on the passholder preview day was the time it spent in the station. I counted about 3 - 5 minutes each time within the station, and no, that wasn't just because it was a brand new ride with "unknown technology" or whatever. That overhead lap-bar restraint doesn't take 5 minutes for everybody to get situated properly. It spends more time in the station then it actually does in its exactly 1 minute long layout. Although this is a great addition and somewhat improvement of this area of the park, I do see a future issue where there's only 1 train with these slow operations. I actually went back not to long ago and the operations were slightly increased in efficiency, but it was still long.
I wonder if they've changed their tolerances in certain areas of engineering. Almost every new b&m I've ridden has a little bit of a shimmy/shake/ rattle
I was recently at Dollywood and they have a great little family coaster in Dragonflier. It is a very fun ride with great near miss elements. But it has very long lines for a short ride because it also only has one train. I am sure that having a shorter and simpler coaster using one train saves money and space requirements but waiting in 45 minute to hour long lines with kids really hurts the park experience. Dragonflier would be perfection with a longer brake run to allow two train operations. Big Bear Mountain is another great family coaster. Vekoma is making some very nice family rides that everyone can enjoy.
I definitely read "Best B&M Invert" for the title instead of the actual title😂😂😂😂
Weird how that works, isn't it? How easily our brains are duped/fooled. Our brains are so adapt at picking out patterns, that sometimes, they pick out patterns that don't even exist.
We’ve gone from should’ve gotten a B&M to we should’ve gotten a Vekoma. B&M needs to stop cheapening out and get it together
7:36 kid is dead 😂
Visually, this ride looks STUNNING! Busch Gardens have really dressed it up perfectly!
in my opinion i think its great for the space that they had to work with and i like it more than penguin trek despite it being way shorter. there really is some nice whip in some spots and i think its really fun. its worth noting that this ride i believe has different trains than the ones in china like i think those don't have a lapbar and also don't have onboard audio so that could be why this ride has a rattle and i'm assuming those don't
B and m and Vekoma have switched in quality
The look on my face when you said it was one train only; what a miss for the park.
Taylor! Do you think Kumba will open up soon? Any insider info? Planning a trip end of January.
how long has it been closed?
we haven't heard anything regarding its reopening, sorry :(
Hopefully it reopens soon because they had just gotten it a whole new logo and everything which was not there when I went in July
I haven’t been on Phoenix Rising, but I did go on Sand Serpent. This looks like a great successor to the old wild mouse, and I’m excited to go in a few months.
Gotta be honest I rode Scorpion my last trip to BGT and outside of Cheetah Hunt is was by far the longest wait I had in the park. So this is not a problem that is unique to Phoenix Rising.
Im hoping that WoRev is great. I am one of those people that loved BBW. I am worried after hearing about this ride and especially after seeing Rapterra bounce down the launch track.
ONE TRAIN?! What were they thinking?! B&M shouldn't have let that happen. B&M has really fallen from excellence. Nobody knows what happened?! When Mako came out they were still on point. Make is super smooth, or was in 2016-2017.
It’s still incredibly smooth I rode it in July
Thanks for covering this! Pumped for the one at BG Williamsburg to open (our home park)
My thoughts exactly on The Wolf’s revenge!😮 edited to say I hope wolfs revenge will have at least 2 trains hope 3.
Busch Gardens Williamsburg is my home park as well and since I am finally being stationed back in Va Beach this year, I really am excited for a BBW revival, but I hope its not this "boring".
If this is the future of B&M then Six Flags Great Adventure might as well have just kept Green Lantern and ordered a sit-down conversion with a new theme and some renovation. Who would've even known the difference? Rather just get a dive too if it's going to be a rough wing launch (we'll see about Rapterra).
I also can’t believe we still don’t have the tech to have on board audio be reliable.
Vekoma figured it out two decades ago. Even Walibi Holland can keep the onboard audio mostly running on their boomerang. Mind you, that's a boomerang with stupidly much shake and stupidly high random force spikes.
I've been on Pheonix Rising multiple times now and have also been on more than 100 other roller coasters. The points made in this video are spot on. I was very disappointed in the lack of smoothness and it's a shame there is only one train.
Kumba..kicks ass. Am I the only 1 that likes it better than M to?
I much prefer kumba to montu
@SkyrushFanboy wow I've talked to so many ppl that would say we r nuts. Both are great but kumba is more intense and that roar is majestic. Plus how it wraps into the environment
So what was the last actually smooth B&M? I freaking loved my rides on Emperor over in San Diego. And for what it’s worth, Pipeline’s not horrible in this department. But there’s literally no excuse for rides like Phoenix Rising, Penguin Trek or Iron Menace to be as rattly as they are.
I'd argue Candymonium was the last glass smooth B&M built
The ones built for 2020. Everything has gone down hill since then (and not just theme parks, humanity in general is on a downward slope)
Great video. Totally agree about the queue and lack of a second train. I skipped it on a weekend visit since the ride was always a minimum 45 minute wait. That can’t be good on a busy, hot day. Weekday visit had no wait so tried it a few times. I thought it was a solid ride, super fun, looks great, has a cool lighting package and the ride experience with custom possibilities to me make it almost a replacement for Arrow suspendeds so looking forward to what they do in Williamsburg. I didn’t notice any vibrations or roughness last month-Certainly nothing that took away from the ride experience. Maybe because I’m used to shaky B&Ms, this was not really noticeable (all hypers with the staggered seating, Batman at Six Flags New England and the OG loopers like Kumba and Dragon Khan).
There was nothing on the screens and no music on the trains-I really had no idea those were supposed to be part of the ride so maybe they don’t use the effects on slow days or turned them off completely already? A bummer either way.
Hopefully kinks are worked out for Williamsburg. It was a fun ride but agree that the new Vekomas seem more fun and the new Intamin suspended family coasters, like DrageKongen, are much more fun in comparison.
I was just there this past weekend, and the screens were working.
This doesn't bode well for BBW: wolfs revenge I hope they can iron out the issues with Phoenix Rising and learn from it operations wise although BBW 2 should have multiple trains with the multiple block zones. Nice review Taylor. Rough brand new B&M go figure 🤦🏻♂️
Big bad wolf 2 will have 2 trains.
I hope they fix these issues for wolf's revenge!!!
Regarding the queue--this is Florida and I was surprised that it was uncovered and in the sun. They put a few fabric shades over it, but much of the time you're standing in the sun, which can be intense. I can't think of any other coaster at BGT whose queue isn't covered.
Pheonix is shakey but it doesn't ruin the ride for me, I love it. On the other hand, the shake on Penguin Trek does indeed ruin that ride for me, so I hear ya! Unfortunately, I can't be excited about any new B&M's for now...
When I first rode Phoenix Rising around a week after opening, I found the ride to run very smoothly, but my recent rides on it were not smooth at all.
It will be interesting to see how the new Big Bad Wolf coaster for Busch Gardens Williamsburg will compare to this.
As someone who's first coaster was Montu, I agree. I am glad to be rid of that terrible mouse coaster, but I also despise mouse coasters in general for their rough sharp turns and jerking manner. I think Tigris (RIP Tidal Wave) and Phoenix Rising were both coasters that could have been given a bit more attention and fit the park a little better but I still enjoy going and will ride most rides depending on the wait time.
When I rode it the dispatch times were about 2 minutes per train which felt like FOREVER for such a small number of riders. But a fair number of smaller kids needed help getting into the seat so I guess I understand. But slow dispatch and one train ops are going to kill this thing. I didn't notice the roughness, but it was a warm day and I was in the front row. It was nothing compared to the back row of Penguin Trek! Holy cow PT feels so janky for a brand new B&M! The 30 year old B&Ms at BGT and SWO feel smoother!
I think the roughness might come from the extended headroom - I think the high-intensity inverts sit closer to the track and so wouldn't sway as much, leading to less roughness
This is a bit random but this reminded me of emperor at SWSD. It opened in 2022, and was glass smooth back then, even in the back. Like I could probably serve dinner on there if there weren’t 3 inversions. Now it’s rattly as hell, especially in the back row. Bad maintenance and poor aging, but it times out with the new “bad” B&M’s so it’s just fueling the fire
Makes sense because bgw is adding one just like it
B&M has officially fallen off, unreliable and rough. I wouldn’t be shocked if we see a bunch of less of less of them in the future.
B&M definitely isn't unreliable, but that new rattle is despicable.
“A bunch of less” I’m gonna start using that
We said that about Vekoma…
Also this is new for B&M they know what they’re doing with high thrill rides
@D4stroyedNope. Iron menace was a mess. Nemesis Reborn. It was literally their perfect model and most built and it was just a retrack. Still rattley as hell, and keep in mind the original nemesis had no rattle. Rapterra can literally be seen to be bouncy on the STRAIGHT launch track. As far as im aware both iron menace, nemesis and rapterra are high thrill.
One if your best reviews in a while. Shame b&m is making less quality rides.
Having ridden Penguin Trek several times now, it’s got a rattle also that’s very noticeable. Almost sounds like something hasn’t been tightened. But it’s on every train on that one. You can feel it on the ride also.
I dunno what’s going on with B&M. I dunno if they changed something to cut on costs or a new design/style but something has changed and not for the better. They know how to make world class rides and I hope they do make more in the future
The old Wild Mouse was not ugly and it was an interesting ride experience. Take that back! 😡
Hey Taylor, I will be looking forward for a review of the new Big Bad Wolf next year.
By the way, I remember you saying in an old video that you rode the original Wolf before it closed. Will you review that coaster?
great question. I only actually rode Big Bad Wolf once, and I was pretty young so I don't remember as many details as I do with other coasters. That, along with the fact that I have no footage to show of it means there will not be a review for the original Big Bad Wolf
@ No worries. Thank you for the explanation.
I mean those led screens are on multiple rides. Velocicoaster is an hour away
I looooooove VelociCoaster it’s so good. Fav Intamin and fav coaster I’ve ridden… current coaster count is 97 or smth
Yea idk why they didn’t add another train. That park gets very crowded on weekends especially summer & Christmas time
I agree, I’ve been on pheonix rising about 6-7 times at this point & it’s pretty discouraging how shaky it is. It’d be a lot better had it been buttery smooth. I feel like the plastic at the top has a lot to do with that annoying rattle as well.
The two times I rode it, I was near the middle, so I didn't notice a shake or anything like that. One of the complaints I have is that it feels like there was supposed to be a shade structure over one area of the queue.
Is it possible it’s not so much a B&M design issue but a Clermont Steel build quality issue? Funny how that facility has always kinda flown under the radar.
Be cool if B&M could make these lapbar trains for the adult Inverted coasters
Speaking of Phoenix, that Mattel park has been leaving track pieces out when it's 115 degrees, I feel like that thing is going to be incredibly rough when they open it
The going theory is a part that B&M source from an external manufacturer might have changed a tolerance slightly. Unfortunately even just a millimeter difference can amplify shake. I hope they figure it out.
So for the rattle, is it the track work being off or is it the wheel design?
Personally when I rode it I enjoyed it and didn't really notice any shake or rattle. The on board audio was also working fine when I was there. I enjoyed it a lot but still definitely wouldn't wait longer than like 20 minutes for it lol.
I felt the shakiness when I rode it the beginning of December I enjoyed but I was like is this really a B&M because of the shaking but it’s still a great ride and yes I wish they did have a second train
Who would have thought that a coaster from B&M would be shakier than Vekoma which is now making a coaster with a glass-smooth experience XD
waiting for more coaster parodys
I rode Phoenix Rising over the Summer and was underwhelmed as well. You hit some valid points in your commentary, but the main thing that stood out was how "accessible" the coaster was. Its placement was not well planned with its station behind a short queue. The ride itself did nothing for me, but then again, it's a family coaster, so you could say that my thrill expectations were not high to begin with.
7:37, was the rider on the left asleep?!
I wonder if catering to families (by many manufacturers, not just B&M) led B&M to decide that they could cut costs since they were building smaller cheaper rides. Maybe the impetus to build such high quality coasters went down because they weren't trying to build standout rides but more easily cloned rides for a less discriminating audience. But that's basically looking at the Vekoma model from the 80s and 90s and applying it to family coasters and thinking "that's the ticket."
I think a lot of people have to keep in mind that although b and m designs the coasters, there’s a lot of parts, including the track, that someone else makes. If one of those companies starts lacking in quality, well so is b and m, even if it has nothing to do with them. So it might just be a matter of them finding a different company to make parts for them, and that could fix these issues
Dude man passed out at 7:37 🤣
I feel like what happened is B&M is trying to cut costs, they likely removed the vibration dampeners for some reason, I wouldn't make that move personally, but I feel like that's gotta be the reason. I've heard multiple people say the same thing, it's gotta be that and other factors too.
It’s because no park would ever buy an older B&M today: not in a post-pandemic economy where cheaper investments are a must for regional parks. And the going theory is that a subcontractor for the company adjusted their engineering tolerances to save costs, but ultimately is introducing additional variables that cause vibration.
I think the layout and forces of it are wonderful and it’s still really fun, especially being pulled over the lift in the back, but wow that rattle on any more intense model would be downright awful. I think it’s probably the weakest coaster in the park (not including Grover cause I’ve never gotten around to riding it) but I’ll still ride it whenever possible regardless. It is probably the second best theming for a coaster in the park though which also helps elevate the overall experience, the station was really neat to watch while in line.
ALSO, the “breakdowns” aren’t actually your typical breakdowns, it’s people (usually kids) wandering too close to the lift hill opening in the station and triggering an automatic shutdown. It happened in line and since we were next up for the back row we talked with the ride opp back there and he explained it pretty clearly. It’s just that the exit isn’t super clear to a kid who’s probably not paying attention to what happens once people get off or people talking to their groups so they trip the system and they need maintenance to come reset it. He also told us that without that they get 20+ dispatches an hour pretty easily, sometimes doubling the capacity. So really just clearer instructions, more signs & such would really help get this things line down and keep it up for longer periods of time.
Vekoma is the new B&M, and B&M is the old Vekoma.
Exactly what I'd say, would love a new age Vekoma Suspended Thrill coaster to replace Kong at Six Flags Discovery Kingdom.
@zacharyyamashita8554 Exactly my point
Most normal weekdays lines are no more than 30 minutes and most of them are near walk on but during major holidays such as right now in between Christmas and New Year’s I have seen wait times become 10 times longer than even the Disney and Universal parks. Today the wait times on half of the park’s at attractions at BGT were reported at over 3 hours while Disney and Universal had insanely long lines, but most of them were about 90 minutes-2.5 hours at most mainly because of their amazing capacity and operations, despite those parks getting 4 times busier than BGT. Obviously the rides at BGT that had over a 3 hour wait were Chetah Hunt because it is always been the most popular attraction there, Iron Gwazi because the operations on that are horrendous, this and Tigris because they can only run one train.
It looks like they are feeding off of the Williamsburg location. Alpinegiest is a hanging coaster and the big bad wolf that they use to have was also a hanging coaster, but looks like from this video that they both faired better than this new coaster.
The worst part is the queue is not only small but limited shade. This isnt bad in the fall/winter but I rode it in the summer and it was brutal waiting in the sun for close to an hour with no shade in sight.
Somehow, the 2-seater Giovanola Inverted Coaster returned.
Road this pass September dueing hollow scream It's way better then the wild Moses that was their so it's a good add for the park
Here's a big issue as well.. If Busch Gardens was thinking about building a Giga using B&M, I'm sure that this made them reconsider... hopefully. I'd love an Intamin, Mack, or Vekoma.
I don’t know what happened with B&M. Iron Menace and several others all suffer from roughness that shouldn’t be the case for a brand new ride. People have reported that Nemesis now runs rough where prior to the rebuild wasn’t the case. Hope these issues can resolved.
The 1 train is a killer, we were there over the holidays and the wait time was awful.
When I pull up to a park and see a B&M track my mind translates it to “smooth ride ahead”. Maybe not so on their newer coasters sadly.
3:50 actually there is a screen in manta at sw sand deigo
that is a projection, not a screen
People complain about the 1 train, sure it sucks but in total from each dispatch, it is about 3 minutes which is equivalent to 1 dispatch on Iron Gwazi.
Rapterra looks glass smooth besides the launch.
Should definitely have 2 trains. Happy to have it over Cheetah Chase though.
Good I’m heading there this summer!
The new owners of Busch gardens just isn’t doing it. While I love Iron Gwazi, it has a very low ride dispatch…then they build things like Cobras Curse, Tigris, and now Phoenix Rising and all of them have lower capacity.
Oh yeah…and then they close Scorpion.
I’ve also got to talk about these new B&Ms….dont love the rattle…don’t love the seats. The seats in Phoenix Rising are very tight and uncomfortable. I felt like I was riding in a Premier train. Penguin Trek isn’t much better.
Jump over to Williamsburg and they got the most average wooden coaster after not being able too forever. Replaced an excellent dark ride with an indoor coaster with awful capacity that barely does anything. But at least they are protective of their Arrow classic? Hope they never do that idiotic "drachen spire" thing either.
@@oneandonlysound99I wasn’t thrilled with Invadr or the new Darkoaster. I preferred the old Curse of Darkastle dark ride.
Really wish they’d sell these parks off to someone who truly cares.
The reason older b&ms are smoothe is because the original founders where with the company and after they left a new group of people took over which then changed the way the company operates and builds coaster
We go to BGT most years, in fact we are visiting next week. We went in August and were going to ride but it broke down and didnt have enough interest to circle back to it. We will try to ride it when we go again, and this review was helpful. BGT as a year around park should not have an attraction that can only run one train, it makes no sense. In the slower months running one train can make sense, but not summer, fall, holidays, etc. Saying that, its an improvement over a cloned wild mouse that looked out of place at a park like BGT. I also continue to wonder why B & M aren't smooth the past several years. Are they cutting corners to compete with Vekoma and others in the family market? Are they too busy? BGT should have put in a Gravity Group woodie for a smooth family friendly attaction. They do need family rides, and a big bear mountain ride would be a nice fit here too. Good idea, not executed well though from the looks and sounds of it.
on the gravity group part - that would have actually been worse since the florida climate would have wiped out the track (looking at Gwazi and how that went down)
@@dracherongames9528 fair point. But sea world did put a GCI in San Antonio recently, not a cold climate. A steel coaster probably would be a better match.
@@alex33952 yeah, though San Antonio is much drier than florida
B&M rattle is the new new lmao. Good rating, very fair. I think people need to speak poorly about B&M, they just don't seem to care.
The breakdowns are a result of riders walking behind the last car and forces an estop. Ride attendants have complained that people get off the ride and get on their phone and walk behind the last car and set off the estop.
Oh interesting! Didn’t know that!
@@CoasterStudiosYep. They said maintenance has to reset the ride and they could be anywhere in the park at the time hence why some downtimes are longer than others.
@@codypet2110 dang thats crazy
The single train might have been a conscious decision so that the train doesn't stop anywhere other than the station under normal operation. Younger kids might get scared if the train stops anywhere else, so being able to say "we'll be coming right back here" allays some of those fears.
I think BGT needs a Giga (of course) and something like Bear Mountain in Dollywood. A very long multi-launch family coaster. After that their line-up would be pretty much perfect.
Big Bear Mountain is basically a less extreme Cheetah Hunt
@Southeastern_Thrills exactly! The park needs that for families. Something with no inversions. Some people don't ride it because of that.
@@scataplaft I meant that Cheetah Hunt is basically BGT's equivalent to Big Bear Mountain. Even though Cheetah Hunt does invert, it's still totally a family coaster.
Imagine the rattle on a 300’ B&M these days 😂 Parks would have to offer free mouth guards to protect visitor’s teeth while riding 😂
@@bassjasinski seemed like to me they figured it out a bit on Rapterra. Launch looks weird but other than that Rapterra looks glass smooth through the whole layout.