02:02 Columbia University BSL3 Manager position 02:31 ASV meeting registration available 02:53 UK SARS CoV 2 challenge study 48:17 would like to see vaccinated vs unvacc viral kinetics 52:03 no correlation between viral shedding and symptom score 52:23 U of Pennsylvania smell test 1:18:43 Koch Postulates Letters read on TWiV 863 Audio Timestamps by Jolene Thanks Weekly Picks 1:19:31 Dickson Webb team begins aligning telescope 1:22:41 Brianne Our Solar System in True Color Is Really Something Else 1:27:03 Rich When the International Space Station retires it will plunge into the ocean to die 1:31:02 Vincent Gateway Program and What One Really Expensive Means to US Train Travel Listener Picks 1:38:30 Jack Dr Becky and Pasta or composer 1:40:08 How to support TWiV
@@lesfaby8997 Thanks Les for the timestamps. Early on a couple of yrs ago I was timestamping Daniel Griffins video's when he touched on LC. Then, one night I timestamped a video when a cat walked into the frame behind Brianne. (Cat alert at 1441)! Someone needs to write me up. Bless
@@Fbarrett I look for MrOzzyCam's comment on every video to add my like. I do that out of respect for the huge number of hours MrOzzyCam has contributed to this channel as a moderator.
I welcome this challenge study. I really enjoyed the discussion but I am not sure I learned anything new from this study. In other words, it confirms what we already knew. That there is no infectious virus found in infection assays 10-14 days after infection. Not everyone gets infected at this dose. PCR and lateral flow tests are good tests throughout the two week infectious cycle. That viral shedding load is independent of symptoms. That PCR can remain positive long after you cease to be infectious (in some people). I think countries need to cease using PCR testing for travel and switch to lateral flow tests. The biggest risk, and one I wouldn't want to take, is losing my sense of smell. That is no small thing.
The word you were looking for Dixon, the correct word they use for the telescopes fine tuning is - Collimating. It should be ready by mid summer, i thought around May but Anton Petrov says it will be mid summer.
9:59 I feel that the prevalence of the virus makes the risks more justified. A large percentage of the 20-year olds I know have caught it at some point anyway, I've had it twice just from going to work. If some unknown aspect of my physiology made me more likely to die I'd rather find out in a hospital as part of a trail than at home by myself.
@@brendanmay9585They even told us it was a huge trial as they vaxxed millions. They want to give it to infants now> how can they do that trial with infants if they are afraid to be held responsible for 25 year olds who can give consent, and tell them what they are feeling??
@@davids1136 ?? What do you mean? The challenge trial TWiV is talking about was for unvaxed volunteers, being deliberately given Covid in order to study it more closely.
@@davids1136 maybe watch the video before commenting?! Most of this episode is about the UK based challenge trials. Meaning they intentionally infected people with SARS-CoV-2 to study what happens. Who is afraid to be liable for 25 yr olds? Not sure about where you are, but here as soon as the gov't recommends a vaccine, they hold liability.
Hi, I'm a statiatician and I've been enjoying this podcast throughout the pandemic. Grateful for scientific discussions. Always getting lots of information, glimpse of lives in bioscience, and sometimes good laughs. :) BTW, the current link to the show note points to 861 instead of 863.
Finally landed here from the Lex Fridman podcast, and wow. I'm thoroughly enjoying every bit of the podcast and love the synergy. Appreciate the attention to detail presented, the passion on display, and I look forward to staying tuned for the indefinite future.
You should check out Vincent's "Virology Live" video virology lessons. When the TWiVers get really technical, you'll better understand what they're talking about.
We are two years in now and I think that even though knowledge is still limited the risks are almost at the point where I would take the risk of a trial. I am too old for the trial that has been done here. I think that I will eventually get SARS-COV-2 because it is not going away. I hope that by the time I get it I will have access to antivirals from the local pharmacy. Every rocket launch into space carries risk but we still do it. The same with a challenge trial. Some people will fly that rocket and some people will take a challenge trial. What is more questionable is whether a trial with a serious outcome for a participant would damage our ability to defend ourselves against a future pandemic because of public distrust being amplified in science and medicine. This is a more difficult question that I do not know the answer to. I appreciate your opinion on the subject of challenge trials and think that it is a valid position to take. I can also see how others may take a different position. I support your continued stand on this matter. It is useful that the matter is shown to be debatable.
There are degrees of risk. There is no way I would risk a rocket launch, nor would I unnecessarily risk a "covid" infection unvaccinated. Now 3 weeks since my booster, I'm feeling more relaxed about it but I still wear a mask indoors in public places by choice.
I really like to listen to your video talks. This time I especially enjoyed the moments when you talked about astrophysics. It made me realize again that science knowledge in one area does not extend to another. There's a little more awareness that we will have biases everywhere - because we have awareness of the biases in our area of knowledge. But if we don't have to look something up our biases can last a very long time. Thank you very much!🖖🤗
The article's corresponding author Dr. Chris Chiu talks about the study on the BBC "Science In Action" Podcast, episode "Identifying a more infectious HIV variant" at 7:35 min mark.
On the ethics point at the beginning, if we believe -everyone's gonna get it- like we keep hearing, then getting it in this medically controlled environment seems like the logical choice and ethical action.
A paper presented at the Alzheimer’s Association International Conference (AAIC) 2021 on hospitalized mild to moderate COVID-19 patients two months after discharge showed cognitive decline in 56.2% of the patients. It correlates covid with persistent cognitive deficits, including the acceleration of Alzheimer’s disease pathology and symptoms. The whole issue of 'brain fog' is not understood and therefore presently untreatable. Getting covid without being vaccinated first is Russian roulette.
They are actually using a very distant star to focus the telescope mirrors. So distant that you can't see it with the naked eye. But the important thing about it that it's not a very large object, so it gives them a small dot from each mirror. When all the dots converge, they are done.
If (?)SARS COV2 better replicate at low tissue temperature,may be fever must not be decreased using antypiretics.? May be symptoms in the early stages of SARS COV2 infection must not be avoided?May be they are induced by interferon releasing? May be we must warm oxigen more,to avoid decrease temperature at respiratory tract.
Another masterclass in reasoned discussion. If you are short of time, skip to the the discussion conclusions at 1:13. E.g. “Symptom severity cannot be considered a surrogate for transmission risk in this disease.”
I appreciate your critical review of the paper. However It would be better to invite one of the researchers of the study to attend this podcast. I feel like it is a bit of unfair that the researchers of the study didn't have a chance to answer some of your comments.
@@peterginsburg2465 - that used to work, but the last 2 episodes were linked to prior episodes (maybe has something to do with watching from Canada?). I was able to go to the website and get the show notes from episode 863.
People in UK are going to get it anyway, no masking, everything back to normal, so it's safer for them. I'd go for it, only I wouldn't be picked because of my comorbidties. Where I live in British Isles, there is no access to monoclonals! So I'd welcome being part of the next study they do, as I'm going to catch it at some point and be stuck at home ill, with no access to anything!
Rach I completely agree with you....through work I have to travel all around the UK and the complete lack of respect for NPI/PPE use is deeply concerning. It was bad enough when masking/distancing rules were at their highest and gradually got worse over time. Now the only people I see masking or distancing are the elderly (good for them) and employees where their business mandates it......and the amount of people not bothering to wash their hands in public toilets is just frightening! I believe monoclonals are available in UK hospitals, along with antivirals, but are only stocked in those that have designated "covid wards"....so depending on where you live it could be hit-n-miss if you were suddenly in need. I've been infected twice (December 20 & April 21) both prior to vaccination - both times with fairly mild symptoms (surprising given my higher than average risk level), but the after affects, while not debilitating, are certainly noticeable & unwelcome every single day. Fingers crossed for you when the time comes, that you have a mild infection with no lasting after affects.
@@fifthoarsmanoftheacropolis4173 I live in the Isle of Man. We have a tiny hospital, and 12 icu beds! We have however done very well to vaccinate around 92% of our 86K population. We didn't have many lockdowns as we closed our borders like NZ did. But Omicron is spreading like wild fire now, but they are dropping masking! I'm in my 60's with kidney issues. Its scary. Definitely no monoclonals here I asked. I'd do a study as I'd feel in better hands than left til day 10 at home.... when it's all to late!!
@@rachcor1333 IoM is one of the few places I haven't been to in the UK.....previous opportunities have always coincided with the TT - so not ideal. 92% is really good & closing the borders was definitely the right choice for IoM. I imagine, like NZ, the death rate has been very low on the island. I think omicron ( or omicron 2) is spreading like wildwire everywhere now BECAUSE masking has been dropped.....quite apart from the physical benefits of masks I think they served as a visual reminder that there is still a pandemic going on, but without that reminder people seem to forget & revert to old behaviours. I've had several situations where I've had to tell people to back off in shop queues etc, because they're so close I an hear & feel them breathing down my neck. I completely agree that it would be better to get through this infection in a controlled environment & I wonder if that idea has been driving hospital admissions.....people realise theyre infected & panic, then call for an ambulance, when for most (around 70-80%) they will only have cold/flu like symptoms for a week & recover. Is the road racing back on this year? because that will be a big test, with whichever variant is circulating. Perhaps in you position it might be worth taking a couple of weeks' holiday on the mainland to lower your personal risk ??
@@fifthoarsmanoftheacropolis4173 Really good point, about that driving hospital admissions. They send an ambulance crew here and if your blood oxygen level is assessed to be ok, you are on your own again. Nothing offered at all. But because of TWiV and especially Daniel's clinical updates, I at least know what to ask for. I'm triple vaxed, so really hope my T cells do kick in. You are 100% correct TT will be the tester, unfortunately my partner and I are very much involved in the TT and therefore we cannot side step it. Which is why I think getting it beforehand, may be a good idea!!! Just seems if I survive it, I'll get another boost to my immunity. Is that a crazy way to think?? All restrictions will be gone prior to TT and vaccinated and unvaccinated are allowed here! So I really don't think I have much choice either way. So sooner, while our hospital is coping, may be better than in TT when our population doubles.
In the UK there may be little masking outside I agree. Indoors and in shops there is quite a lot of masking in the NE. Reckless people have and always been reckless. If we get another virus with a higher IFR then Darwinian selection will come into its own.
Smell test: Have to differentiate between sense of smell vs taste or activation of TRPV receptors with mint. Coffee, tobacco etc are used. In formal tests, rose, jasmine etc. Did they check stool?
I made up a Covid joke the other day that was greatly appreciated by my 12 year old grand. The next variant will affect your sense of hearing. Everyone infected will have the following symptoms: Wandering about shouting: Huh? What? Say again? Don’t talk to me from the next room Huh? What? Louder please? Say it again? Are you talking to me?
May be(?) at vaccinated, respiratory mucoseal temperature increase rapidly in contact with SARS COV2 antigens? May be not only neutralyzing antyspike antibody protect, but also rapid inflamation and increasingly temperature at mucoseal level?
@@tunneling-nanotubes at TWiV Nr 659 at min29 Christian Drosten indicate that low tissue temperature was needed to replicate SARS COV2 in different tissues in lab. High body temperature , theoreticaly, protect against SARS COV2 infection. May If we wear mask after infection ,nasal mucoseal temperature increased by that ,can, theoreticaly, decrease viral replication at that level? and may be anosmia did not occur? May be ,, mask wearing,, are not only preventive, but therapeutic?
Even cells was infected with SARS COV2, high mucoseal temperature ,theoreticaly, mitigate infection. Even some cells was infected,infection did not spread to others cells If local temperature are high, If(?) SARS COV2 better replicate at low tissue temperature.
If it's worth the risk to have everyone take the vaccine despite contraindications and other negative health outcomes, wouldn't it be worth the rest to run the experiment Dixon proposes about sitting uninfected people in a room with infected people? Also, has the government undertaken any serological studies to determine the actual death rate from covid-19?
The test can be considered amoral but truth is most people prior to vaccination who caught covid removed naturally... people get vaccinated now, but we don't know what would happen without the vaccine. I mean if these people agreed to this test then so be it.
I don’t understand why they are so concerned about infected young, healthy, vaccinated individuals under a controlled setting while also taking the stance that breakthrough cases in vaccinated people in uncontrolled settings are no big deal and not a reason to give boosters. If vaccines won’t protect against infection and most people will get infected this year, then why not do it in a controlled setting where scientific knowledge is gained and monoclonal antibodies can be given?
If that’s true, it certainly changes things. I didn’t hear any mention or discussion of vaccination status of the volunteers and assumed such trial would only be conducted amongst those at lowest risk, which would be those who are vaccinated.
Satellites Most human created Satellites are in low earth orbit The lower the orbit, the sooner it will fall That said…. The moon is essentially a Satellite And it is not coming down any time soon
The answer choice when confronted by "enrollers" for this kind of shenanigan is actually tripartite: YES, NO, and HELL NO. In the USA, our human studies committees would be getting out the torches and the pitchforks.
The issue is really that everyone will be exposed, especially this variant (Omicron BA.2) So choosing to be in a trial, where you are monitored, is probably the safest way to catch it!!
May be ,mask wearing also warm upper respiratory tract? and prevent decrease of mucoseal temperature. If(?) SARS COV2 better replicate in different tissues when You ,,cool the incubator down,(Christian Drosten indicate at TWiV Nr 659 at min29),,mask wearing,,also have terapeutic effect not only preventive by bloking FLUGGE drops. If(?)
That statement hinges on your understanding of GoF research.... Which definition of GoF are you using:- that used by the scientists with intimate knowledge of the subject?....or that used my MSM & social media bloggers that ceased their science education at high school ??
@@martyr84 Well.....by your definition, it would be a low risk/ low pathogen type of research & not with "live" virus. SARS CoV2 - MUST be worked on in BSL3 or BSL4 labs. FWIW (and I'm paraphrasing here) ANY type of research that involves deliberate changes at the molecular level is defined as GoF - regardless of whether those changes are beneficial or detrimental to the microbe involved. Without GoF it would be completely impossible to create any vaccine or antiviral.
A good start would be to know what you're talking about. The shifting sands of ‘gain-of-function’ research The mystery of COVID’s origins has reignited a contentious debate about potentially risky studies and the fuzzy terminology that describes them. Amber Dance Nature 27 October 2021 (Sorry, UA-cam deletes my messages with urls)
02:02 Columbia University BSL3 Manager position
02:31 ASV meeting registration available
02:53 UK SARS CoV 2 challenge study
48:17 would like to see vaccinated vs unvacc viral kinetics
52:03 no correlation between viral shedding and symptom score
52:23 U of Pennsylvania smell test
1:18:43 Koch Postulates
Letters read on TWiV 863
Audio Timestamps by Jolene Thanks
Weekly Picks
1:19:31 Dickson Webb team begins aligning telescope
1:22:41 Brianne Our Solar System in True Color Is Really Something Else
1:27:03 Rich When the International Space Station retires it will plunge into the ocean to die
1:31:02 Vincent Gateway Program and What One Really Expensive Means to US Train Travel
Listener Picks
1:38:30 Jack Dr Becky and Pasta or composer
1:40:08 How to support TWiV
I would welcome any additional timepoints you found interesting. Please press THUMBS UP to help others find timestamps.
Great work! Thank you.
Thank you so much for the timestamps.
@@lesfaby8997 Thanks Les for the timestamps. Early on a couple of yrs ago I was timestamping Daniel Griffins video's when he touched on LC.
Then, one night I timestamped a video when a cat walked into the frame behind Brianne. (Cat alert at 1441)! Someone needs to write me up. Bless
Delighted to be the listener pick of the week - thanks Jack!
Thanks Vincent and the TWiV team for another great episode!
Yes I agree, I can't miss any of them. Addicted lol
@@Fbarrett I look for MrOzzyCam's comment on every video to add my like. I do that out of respect for the huge number of hours MrOzzyCam has contributed to this channel as a moderator.
I welcome this challenge study. I really enjoyed the discussion but I am not sure I learned anything new from this study. In other words, it confirms what we already knew. That there is no infectious virus found in infection assays 10-14 days after infection. Not everyone gets infected at this dose. PCR and lateral flow tests are good tests throughout the two week infectious cycle. That viral shedding load is independent of symptoms. That PCR can remain positive long after you cease to be infectious (in some people). I think countries need to cease using PCR testing for travel and switch to lateral flow tests. The biggest risk, and one I wouldn't want to take, is losing my sense of smell. That is no small thing.
The word you were looking for Dixon, the correct word they use for the telescopes fine tuning is - Collimating.
It should be ready by mid summer, i thought around May but Anton Petrov says it will be mid summer.
I'm with Anton on this one!
I removed a comment with name calling. Personal insults do not add anything to the discussion. You are welcome to repost without the insults.
9:59 I feel that the prevalence of the virus makes the risks more justified. A large percentage of the 20-year olds I know have caught it at some point anyway, I've had it twice just from going to work. If some unknown aspect of my physiology made me more likely to die I'd rather find out in a hospital as part of a trail than at home by myself.
Absolutely
I hear you. If you are convinced, you're going to get it anyway, then why not under scientific conditions.
@@brendanmay9585They even told us it was a huge trial as they vaxxed millions. They want to give it to infants now> how can they do that trial with infants if they are afraid to be held responsible for 25 year olds who can give consent, and tell them what they are feeling??
@@davids1136 ??
What do you mean? The challenge trial TWiV is talking about was for unvaxed volunteers, being deliberately given Covid in order to study it more closely.
@@davids1136 maybe watch the video before commenting?!
Most of this episode is about the UK based challenge trials. Meaning they intentionally infected people with SARS-CoV-2 to study what happens.
Who is afraid to be liable for 25 yr olds? Not sure about where you are, but here as soon as the gov't recommends a vaccine, they hold liability.
Hi, I'm a statiatician and I've been enjoying this podcast throughout the pandemic. Grateful for scientific discussions. Always getting lots of information, glimpse of lives in bioscience, and sometimes good laughs. :) BTW, the current link to the show note points to 861 instead of 863.
Thank you for reporting this. I emailed Prof Vincent. The workaround for others is replacing "861" with "863" in the link.
Thanks, fixed.
Finally landed here from the Lex Fridman podcast, and wow. I'm thoroughly enjoying every bit of the podcast and love the synergy. Appreciate the attention to detail presented, the passion on display, and I look forward to staying tuned for the indefinite future.
You should check out Vincent's "Virology Live" video virology lessons. When the TWiVers get really technical, you'll better understand what they're talking about.
Welcome 🖐
This is the best place to be 💯😁
We are two years in now and I think that even though knowledge is still limited the risks are almost at the point where I would take the risk of a trial. I am too old for the trial that has been done here. I think that I will eventually get SARS-COV-2 because it is not going away. I hope that by the time I get it I will have access to antivirals from the local pharmacy. Every rocket launch into space carries risk but we still do it. The same with a challenge trial. Some people will fly that rocket and some people will take a challenge trial. What is more questionable is whether a trial with a serious outcome for a participant would damage our ability to defend ourselves against a future pandemic because of public distrust being amplified in science and medicine. This is a more difficult question that I do not know the answer to. I appreciate your opinion on the subject of challenge trials and think that it is a valid position to take. I can also see how others may take a different position. I support your continued stand on this matter. It is useful that the matter is shown to be debatable.
There are degrees of risk. There is no way I would risk a rocket launch, nor would I unnecessarily risk a "covid" infection unvaccinated. Now 3 weeks since my booster, I'm feeling more relaxed about it but I still wear a mask indoors in public places by choice.
Thanks TWiV! Much appreciated 🙏
I really like to listen to your video talks. This time I especially enjoyed the moments when you talked about astrophysics. It made me realize again that science knowledge in one area does not extend to another. There's a little more awareness that we will have biases everywhere - because we have awareness of the biases in our area of knowledge. But if we don't have to look something up our biases can last a very long time. Thank you very much!🖖🤗
The article's corresponding author Dr. Chris Chiu talks about the study on the BBC "Science In Action" Podcast, episode "Identifying a more infectious HIV variant" at 7:35 min mark.
On the ethics point at the beginning, if we believe -everyone's gonna get it- like we keep hearing, then getting it in this medically controlled environment seems like the logical choice and ethical action.
True, but not compared to getting it after being vaccinated
A paper presented at the Alzheimer’s Association International Conference (AAIC) 2021 on hospitalized mild to moderate COVID-19 patients two months after discharge showed cognitive decline in 56.2% of the patients. It correlates covid with persistent cognitive deficits, including the acceleration of Alzheimer’s disease pathology and symptoms. The whole issue of 'brain fog' is not understood and therefore presently untreatable. Getting covid without being vaccinated first is Russian roulette.
They are actually using a very distant star to focus the telescope mirrors. So distant that you can't see it with the naked eye. But the important thing about it that it's not a very large object, so it gives them a small dot from each mirror. When all the dots converge, they are done.
If (?)SARS COV2 better replicate at low tissue temperature,may be fever must not be decreased using antypiretics.?
May be symptoms in the early stages of SARS COV2 infection must not be avoided?May be they are induced by interferon releasing?
May be we must warm oxigen more,to avoid decrease temperature at respiratory tract.
I enjoyed this discussion. Thank you.
the link to show the current notes points to the last episode, please change the link. Great episode again, congrats guys!
👍👍👍👍👍Thanks to Jack for the great pick of Dr. Becky!!!❤❤❤❤❤She is Amazing!!!!🥰😚
I appreciate the team's knowledge regarding viruses. I have been able to educate people regarding the pandemic.
Another masterclass in reasoned discussion. If you are short of time, skip to the the discussion conclusions at 1:13. E.g. “Symptom severity cannot be considered a surrogate for transmission risk in this disease.”
I appreciate your critical review of the paper. However It would be better to invite one of the researchers of the study to attend this podcast. I feel like it is a bit of unfair that the researchers of the study didn't have a chance to answer some of your comments.
FYI there is no effective earth shadow from the sun at L-2, it is too far away. Webb is orbiting L-2 and not parked on L-2.
Is there any way to get a link to the articles from this episode? The show notes only give links to articles from previous episodes.
In the description, click on the "Our Podcasts." Then, "This Week in Virology." The links to papers will be under the video window.
@@peterginsburg2465 - that used to work, but the last 2 episodes were linked to prior episodes (maybe has something to do with watching from Canada?). I was able to go to the website and get the show notes from episode 863.
The link that ends with "861" needs to have its last digit changed to "3".
@@Madocon The link to the show notes are now fixed.
People in UK are going to get it anyway, no masking, everything back to normal, so it's safer for them. I'd go for it, only I wouldn't be picked because of my comorbidties. Where I live in British Isles, there is no access to monoclonals! So I'd welcome being part of the next study they do, as I'm going to catch it at some point and be stuck at home ill, with no access to anything!
Rach
I completely agree with you....through work I have to travel all around the UK and the complete lack of respect for NPI/PPE use is deeply concerning. It was bad enough when masking/distancing rules were at their highest and gradually got worse over time. Now the only people I see masking or distancing are the elderly (good for them) and employees where their business mandates it......and the amount of people not bothering to wash their hands in public toilets is just frightening!
I believe monoclonals are available in UK hospitals, along with antivirals, but are only stocked in those that have designated "covid wards"....so depending on where you live it could be hit-n-miss if you were suddenly in need.
I've been infected twice (December 20 & April 21) both prior to vaccination - both times with fairly mild symptoms (surprising given my higher than average risk level), but the after affects, while not debilitating, are certainly noticeable & unwelcome every single day.
Fingers crossed for you when the time comes, that you have a mild infection with no lasting after affects.
@@fifthoarsmanoftheacropolis4173
I live in the Isle of Man. We have a tiny hospital, and 12 icu beds! We have however done very well to vaccinate around 92% of our 86K population. We didn't have many lockdowns as we closed our borders like NZ did. But Omicron is spreading like wild fire now, but they are dropping masking!
I'm in my 60's with kidney issues.
Its scary. Definitely no monoclonals here I asked. I'd do a study as I'd feel in better hands than left til day 10 at home.... when it's all to late!!
@@rachcor1333 IoM is one of the few places I haven't been to in the UK.....previous opportunities have always coincided with the TT - so not ideal.
92% is really good & closing the borders was definitely the right choice for IoM. I imagine, like NZ, the death rate has been very low on the island.
I think omicron ( or omicron 2) is spreading like wildwire everywhere now BECAUSE masking has been dropped.....quite apart from the physical benefits of masks I think they served as a visual reminder that there is still a pandemic going on, but without that reminder people seem to forget & revert to old behaviours. I've had several situations where I've had to tell people to back off in shop queues etc, because they're so close I an hear & feel them breathing down my neck.
I completely agree that it would be better to get through this infection in a controlled environment & I wonder if that idea has been driving hospital admissions.....people realise theyre infected & panic, then call for an ambulance, when for most (around 70-80%) they will only have cold/flu like symptoms for a week & recover.
Is the road racing back on this year? because that will be a big test, with whichever variant is circulating. Perhaps in you position it might be worth taking a couple of weeks' holiday on the mainland to lower your personal risk ??
@@fifthoarsmanoftheacropolis4173
Really good point, about that driving hospital admissions. They send an ambulance crew here and if your blood oxygen level is assessed to be ok, you are on your own again. Nothing offered at all.
But because of TWiV and especially Daniel's clinical updates, I at least know what to ask for. I'm triple vaxed, so really hope my T cells do kick in.
You are 100% correct TT will be the tester, unfortunately my partner and I are very much involved in the TT and therefore we cannot side step it. Which is why I think getting it beforehand, may be a good idea!!! Just seems if I survive it, I'll get another boost to my immunity. Is that a crazy way to think?? All restrictions will be gone prior to TT and vaccinated and unvaccinated are allowed here! So I really don't think I have much choice either way. So sooner, while our hospital is coping, may be better than in TT when our population doubles.
In the UK there may be little masking outside I agree. Indoors and in shops there is quite a lot of masking in the NE. Reckless people have and always been reckless. If we get another virus with a higher IFR then Darwinian selection will come into its own.
The person in the challenge trial who develops long Covid or dies would also likely have a similar response from catching covid on their own.
So what happens when/if a subject develops long Covid complications in the challenge study?
All participants will be monitored for 12 months to watch for any long-term effects.
@@TonyFisherPuzzles Had they talked to patients with long covid with different degrees of severity?
Smell test: Have to differentiate between sense of smell vs taste or activation of TRPV receptors with mint. Coffee, tobacco etc are used. In formal tests, rose, jasmine etc.
Did they check stool?
I made up a Covid joke the other day that was greatly appreciated by my 12 year old grand.
The next variant will affect your sense of hearing. Everyone infected will have the following symptoms:
Wandering about shouting:
Huh?
What?
Say again?
Don’t talk to me from the next room
Huh? What?
Louder please?
Say it again?
Are you talking to me?
Dixon too funny "... I could have been a contender...." 😀
Ben Killingly does the challenge study, there's nomanitive determinism for you. And 36 participants - that would br French roulette. 🙂
Green around the gills, Vincent!
Try violet, beige, pink, mushroom...
May be(?) at vaccinated, respiratory mucoseal temperature increase rapidly in contact with SARS COV2 antigens?
May be not only neutralyzing antyspike antibody protect, but also rapid inflamation and increasingly temperature at mucoseal level?
@@tunneling-nanotubes at TWiV Nr 659 at min29 Christian Drosten indicate that low tissue temperature was needed to replicate SARS COV2 in different tissues in lab.
High body temperature , theoreticaly, protect against SARS COV2 infection.
May If we wear mask after infection ,nasal mucoseal temperature increased by that ,can, theoreticaly, decrease viral replication at that level? and may be anosmia did not occur?
May be ,, mask wearing,, are not only preventive, but therapeutic?
@@tunneling-nanotubes At TWiV Nr 659 at min29 Christian Drosten indicate low tissue temperature better to replicate SARS COV2
Even cells was infected with SARS COV2, high mucoseal temperature ,theoreticaly, mitigate infection.
Even some cells was infected,infection did not spread to others cells If local temperature are high, If(?) SARS COV2 better replicate at low tissue temperature.
At night body temperature decrease.
Theoreticaly, low vitD level decrease basal muscular tonus and capacity of thermogenesis especially at night
@@tunneling-nanotubes dispneea induced by exercise can decrease temperature at respiratory mucoseal level
@Dixon Venus is the brightest after the Sun and Moon not Jupiter
🐭Get a load of that Vincent character🐹
If it's worth the risk to have everyone take the vaccine despite contraindications and other negative health outcomes, wouldn't it be worth the rest to run the experiment Dixon proposes about sitting uninfected people in a room with infected people? Also, has the government undertaken any serological studies to determine the actual death rate from covid-19?
I would vote yes for study, but I'm just a phd student. I also want someone to.make a human chimp hybrid
A Hump or a Chiman?
The test can be considered amoral but truth is most people prior to vaccination who caught covid removed naturally... people get vaccinated now, but we don't know what would happen without the vaccine. I mean if these people agreed to this test then so be it.
I actually knew venus is white because when you see mars in the sky it is red, but when you see venus (which is very easy to see) it is white
Im so……excited to be one of the first to listen in 💝😎👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I don’t understand why they are so concerned about infected young, healthy, vaccinated individuals under a controlled setting while also taking the stance that breakthrough cases in vaccinated people in uncontrolled settings are no big deal and not a reason to give boosters. If vaccines won’t protect against infection and most people will get infected this year, then why not do it in a controlled setting where scientific knowledge is gained and monoclonal antibodies can be given?
If that’s true, it certainly changes things. I didn’t hear any mention or discussion of vaccination status of the volunteers and assumed such trial would only be conducted amongst those at lowest risk, which would be those who are vaccinated.
Dickson in fine form!
Satellites
Most human created Satellites are in low earth orbit
The lower the orbit, the sooner it will fall
That said…. The moon is essentially a Satellite
And it is not coming down any time soon
Interesting that it is much cheaper to experiment on humans than monkeys.
The answer choice when confronted by "enrollers" for this kind of shenanigan is actually tripartite: YES, NO, and HELL NO. In the USA, our human studies committees would be getting out the torches and the pitchforks.
The issue is really that everyone will be exposed, especially this variant (Omicron BA.2) So choosing to be in a trial, where you are monitored, is probably the safest way to catch it!!
I don't think that being unvaccinated and contracting Sars-CoV-2 is the safest way!
May be ,mask wearing also warm upper respiratory tract? and prevent decrease of mucoseal temperature.
If(?) SARS COV2 better replicate in different tissues when You ,,cool the incubator down,(Christian Drosten indicate at TWiV Nr 659 at min29),,mask wearing,,also have terapeutic effect not only preventive by bloking FLUGGE drops. If(?)
I am disgusted by this Challenge Study.
Medicine is full of disgusting things, but I share your view of this study. It seems ethically challenged.
Against challenge studies but totally for gain of function research?
This is peak hypocrisy, with all due respect.
That statement hinges on your understanding of GoF research....
Which definition of GoF are you using:- that used by the scientists with intimate knowledge of the subject?....or that used my MSM & social media bloggers that ceased their science education at high school ??
What do they entail exactly?
@@fifthoarsmanoftheacropolis4173 The BSL-2 approved Fauci coronavirus gain of function research.
@@martyr84 Well.....by your definition, it would be a low risk/ low pathogen type of research & not with "live" virus.
SARS CoV2 - MUST be worked on in BSL3 or BSL4 labs.
FWIW (and I'm paraphrasing here) ANY type of research that involves deliberate changes at the molecular level is defined as GoF - regardless of whether those changes are beneficial or detrimental to the microbe involved. Without GoF it would be completely impossible to create any vaccine or antiviral.
A good start would be to know what you're talking about.
The shifting sands of ‘gain-of-function’ research
The mystery of COVID’s origins has reignited a contentious debate about potentially risky studies and the fuzzy terminology that describes them.
Amber Dance
Nature
27 October 2021
(Sorry, UA-cam deletes my messages with urls)