Hey everyone! Been meaning to make this video for ages, but I wanted to wait till closer to the election as toll roads are an issue that will be on many people's minds when they head to the polls in late March. I know it'll be on my mind. I honestly still don't even know who I'm going to vote for! Anyways, I aimed to be as balanced as I could in this video. I've seen so many different perspectives on toll roads; from those who wish we'd all stop whining about toll roads as they are a very important part of our transport network, to those who think people deserve to be punished with tolls for driving instead of taking the train. It's a complex topic and I hope I approached it in a balanced way. As for Rowan...he's a friend of mine, and a mutual friend of ours submitted that response as a joke haha. I can confirm that he does not drive up and down the M4 in his Porsche to flex his wealth 🤣. (But he does love smoking imaginary ciggys, as you may see at 05:10...don't ask.)
Well look at the amount infrastructure projects completed and on the way over the past 12 years. Compared to the previous 15 or so years under labor. Anyone working or interested in infrastructure would find voting this year an easy choice, the incumbent government is the obvious choice.
I mentioned this channel to a friend that works in the PT sector and he said it was recommended to him by a colleague, so public transport employees are watching your channel and enjoying it. Well done.
@@kn6496 I also found it strange although not surprising for a young person that he actually either didn’t pick up on or total ignored that fact that Labor seemed to ‘qualify’ their payment to people ‘without a public transport optionI’m. Listen to what he says with if it’s correct means their going to limit it to certain areas where people don’t have trains; not everyone using the toll roads. I do get angry when people don’t listen and question what politicians say: to me it seemed obvious there’s was a get out clause in the promise.
It's insane. Have you heard about the "no competition" clauses in the private motorway contracts. If competeing public transport infrastructure is built then the government has to pay a penalty to the private company. Insane.
Ikr, it shows that they know that these toll roads will fail, congest and damage urban areas and inevitably be replaced by better, publicly-owned transit solutions, so they just make it absurdly expensive to even plan in the city. It shows that the urban growth ponzi scheme that we daily live with will never die, because either forty lawsuits or a single contract clause will be enough to topple any scheme that seeks to prevent private market intrusion in the most basic, tantamount to rights services of fucking housing and transit
I understand why they would have such clauses. If you spend billions or tens of billions of dollars to build a road, you are taking a huge risk. It wouldn't be fair if the government would notice that "oh, there seems to be demand" and then spend couple hundred million dollars to build some kind of rapid transit system right next to the motorway. This makes sence, if you want to have private companies invest in large infrastructure projects. But I don't think any government should be making these kinds of deals.
Ha! Hi dave, i see you have also found this little gem of a channel. Also didn't nsw gov sell off 49% of the grid to fund the m4 tunnel? Or am i remembering that wrong.
True. Plus as part of the so-called-upgrade of the Waringah Expressway, they are closing the Alfred St (North Sydney) exit. I know this because a few weeks ago, I was in a taxi and directed the driver to this exit but then was stopped by roadworks in Alfred St N & had a very long and confusing detour that included windy & narrow one-way streets. Next time, driver used Military Rd exit, then tramway lane to get to Falcon St.
Your commitment and dedication is something that cannot be understated. 24 minutes of pure information and entertainment is just brilliant. Well done to you.
The toll road situation in Sydney is way out of hand right now and the ever increasing toll prices have caused Parramatta Road, Canterbury Road, King Georges Road, Stoney Creek Road, Croydon Road, and Kingsgrove Road to be more and more congested as people try to avoid paying tolls along with the ever increasing truck traffic.
Before the tollways were built, these were the only roads anyone could use. The tollways have taken traffic off the old arterials, not added traffic to them.
Very true Master. To add all residential streets are busier due to motorists using these to by-pass congested arterial roads. It’s a joke and we as a society do not deserve to be treated like fools to be tolled into poverty. This country is so bad for getting to/from work where we pay taxes.
dont stop the videos mate. glad to have someone with a voice actually talking about these issues and breaking down how just unfair the whole system has really been. NSW deserves better
Hey Sharath - I feel that you missed an additional key point when talking about Transurban contracts, being that the Government guarantees "minimums" - as in, the minimum amount of cars using the toll roads. So if there are more cars on the road, that means more money for Transurban -- if the number of cars drop below the guaranteed minimum, the Government (i.e. the taxpayer) pays the difference. Which means either way, the taxpayers continue to pay a private company even when the community chooses to not use the toll road.
I live in Penrith and my work is in Tuggerah on the central coast. My journey consists of M4, M7, M2 and Northconnex tunnel there and back every day in my Ute that I need to carry my tools. It costs me over $100 return trip a day for fuel and tolls. That’s about $25,000 per year. When I hear about cash back schemes it’s like a joke.
@@kcobley I've got to agree. Home rental prices on the Central Coast are comparable to Penrith. Unless you have some really compelling reason to stay in Penrith, it's a no-brainer to save the money and the 3+ hours daily commute.
This explains why the transition to EVs is essential. For those with home solar panels and battery storage, the perpetual petrol bills are immediately eliminated. For a 2 car household, the savings for both petrol and ICE car maintenance is a staggering $50K over 10 years. For those who drive more and have larger households, the savings are even greater.
Thing that struck me about Sydney infastructure as an American was the use of public infastructure by private companies for profit. Tolls in many areas of the US (ex. ezpass) are for certain highways or for certain roads, and seem to be priced to help cover the cost of maintaining the infrastructure. You have some in cities like NYC that are a bit extortionate (ex. $20 USD to cross a bridge in NYC as you drive through the city), but generally speaking the money goes to the government. In Sydney, you have private groups that own tunnels! You even have the airports that own their own station on the rail line and set their own prices for the service. Never mind that they use public transport infrastructure, and that without this infrastructure they’d have no station to begin with 😂. Sydney needs to be better about making the infastructure owned by the state and tolled for maintenance/recover initial costs, not other shit. Seems like a huge oversight
For some reason, Sydney airport indeed has the privilege to add around $14 fee to this section of the rail line between the airport and the city. Add to this the normal train fare. So you have to pay in total $18.4 to commute from the airport to the city (4 stations). A 11 min long trip. Very few people take this train, as far as i'm aware. Everyone either takes that bus right outside the terminal, or their own car, or a taxi. It's such a waste. I don't know of any other city that does something as stupid. Besides, you can add those $4 you have to pay to rent that baggage trolley. That i've never seen either in any other airport, in Asia and in Europe.
There are a few places where private companies get the benefit. In Chicago, a private company has leased the Chicago Skyway, which goes from the Indiana Toll Road in the east to the Dan Ryan Expressway. They've hiked tolls without improving maintenance and pocket the profit. But I think because of that, a lot of local US governments have either opted to keep it all in house or set legal limits to what the private companies charge.
All road infrastructure in NSW is owned by the NSW Government, including all tollways. The Government contracts a company to provide credit, construct and maintain a tollway for a determined length of time and receives toll revenue in exchange for it. After the toll concession expires the Government takes over the operation of the road. There used to be tolls on the F3 and F6 Freeways (now called Pacific Motorway and Princes Motorway respectively) and once the loans for these were paid off the tolls were removed. Come to think of it, there was originally two tolls on the F3, one at Berowra and another at the bottom of Mt White. 10c each until the two sections were joined, then the Mt White toll plaza was removed and the toll at Berowra was doubled to 20c.
Motorways add traffic to local streets at the start and end of the journeys, often the traffic relief is only for a few years before the inducement fills those streets again. When they are putting in a motorway to provide relief they need to also make changes to those roads that the traffic is removed from, permanent parking to help local businesses, bus lanes, cycle paths, outdoor eating for businesses etc
Thank you for including me at 11:58! Awesome video Sharath! I find it ridiculous how expensive tolls are. If in the state election a new government wins hopefully we see a fall in prices. Its also quite confusing how they are also building heaps of train, metro and light rail lines as well so it just makes it more confusing for people. I don’t think the government is properly thinking about transportation. In my opinion I think they should completely scrap the idea for new motorways in order to reduce the amount of pollution by cars. Thank you again for this great video! 😄
By utilising bike/ebike and train your Marsden Park to Mascot becomes a 1 hour train and 2 x ~15min cycles which is a great bit of exercise. Same time as driving no tolls and many people are able to get some work done on the train. Can't do that in a car. Making it safe to cycle to and from train stations is much more cost-effective than funnelling money to Transurban.
I moved from Sydney to Melbourne around 2016 because even back then before our inflation problem Sydney was simply just unliveable. Melbourne is a world's apart difference especially for public transport with the exception of the Western suburbs which are lacking.
You haven't travelled much if you think Melbourne has good public transport - it's worse than Sydney in fact. When i visited Sydney it was much more seamless, mel didn't even have a link to the 24hr international airport.
@@smiddysmidton8313 The SkyBus in Melbourne which runs from Southern Cross to Tullamarine might not be a train but it runs 7 days a week, almost 24 hours/day. The fare costs about the same as Sydney's airport train. There are also local buses to the airport from Broadmeadows station.
Ever since they opened the M8, they tolled the M5 tunnel, which was previously not tolled (for as long as I remember anyways). Adding nearly $16 per day to my tolls. To get to work, I pay roughly $35 a round trip, with $10 back for the M5 cashback scheme. It's either that, making my trip around 45 to 50 minutes, compared to nearly 2 hrs on public transport, including wait times for trains and buses.
mate that blows my mind. Can i ask, what suburb you live in? im not from Sydney but why 2 hours? are there no good public transport options within walking distance?
And this wanna be labour leader wont commit to removing that toll because he knows he cant with out heavy compensation the the opperator. But then again i have a small parcel of sheares with transurban and doing nicely
@@amac2612 around Narellan, south west Sydney. About a 10 to 15 minute drive to the closest station, with a bus being 5 to 10 minutes longer. Trains run every half an hour or so (been a while since I've checked).
the ONLY way to protest the current situation is by making a collective effort to boycott those stupidly expensive roads. Not a personal reproach, but if for convenience, you still agree to pay these extortionate fees, you shouldn't complain. It's basically what they offer you : "you want convenience ? you want to save time ? well, that will cost you $35. (until the next price hike) You're not happy ? We have a monopoly, so get lost, and feel free to spend 2hrs waiting for that bus if you like"
@@amac2612The thing to realise about Sydney is that it has a population of over 5 million, that's more than the entire population of New Zealand. You will never service every resident with good public transport. There's too many people in too many different locations travelling to too many different destinations on a daily basis. Having said that, assuming you are commuting to one of the central business districts there is good public transport options if you are willing to move close to a rail line, of which there are many. But you can't have your cake and eat it too. Frankly if you want a good quality of life I would suggest leaving (or in your case never moving to) Sydney. The current trend of smaller and smaller housing for more and more money in denser and denser areas is never going to stop. Quality of life only gets worse in Sydney year over year.
The congestion on local roads running parallel to Motorways is more to do with induced demand rather than toll avoidance. That is why they narrowed Epping Road and created bus lanes as soon as the LCT opened. An even better example is the bus lane on lane 7 of the SHB. Despite the protests at the time, the Government did the right thing in installing the bus lane as soon as the SHT opened. If they hadn't, lane 7 would have become congested withing months.
Sydney government be like: Two motorways need connecting to reduce traffic on the local road *Connects two motorways with a toll road "Why is the local road still congested?"
when they built the M5 it was two lanes, then realised they needed 3, then eventually they needed 4 lanes lol So when they build the M7 they built two lanes. Its basic profiteering for multi corps to cash in on projects that are set up for re investments... Line em up
The real reason is induced demand. You get people moving to use the toll road but you also incourage new drivers to fill up the local roads again for more local trips.
Absolutely awesome stuff! When you said "crunch" in the beginning, I felt that! Thank you for these wonderfully made videos on our beloved city of Sydney.
There's a Daily Telegraph article online stating that the Falcon Street off ramps at North Sydney are the most expensive. $1.89 (would be more now) to travel 200m equates to $7.70 per KM. Cross City Tunnel is useful when coming into the city from the North West along Victoria Road and over the Anzac Bridge. You go through Darling Harbour and into the Cross City Tunnel and it takes you into the Eastern Distributor which is toll-free southbound. Much cheaper than using the M2 Lane Cove Tunnel and Harbour bridge.
Great video well researched. I have been in a toll lunch room talking about alternative routes. The government privatisation of everything has resulted in a lack of income.
I moved out of Sydney 10 years ago in my weekly commute I could easily avoid tolls. When I come back to see friends I'm repeatedly reminded of why I left. I now refer to Sydney as the city of transurban. Less and less of my social circle remain in Sydney as cost of living and the general feel of the city has been destroyed.
Sydney is super expensive but if you are lucky enough to afford to live close to friends and family in or near the city it is not bad. However, to do so you would probably need a 6 figure salary as a minimum and probably close to $150k/yr to be comfortable.
I think an important part of Minns’ proposal that not a lot of people talk about is that he would appoint the former chair of the ACCC to perform a structural review of Sydney’s Toll Roads, with the $60 cap being a temporary solution whilst the review is underway. That would probably lead to a lot more reform than it initially sounds.
cant support a $60 cap. thats only $10 more than the $50 cap on public transport. they should be incentivising public transport use, not making it cheaper for single occupant vehicles to clog the streets.
Or just buy the bloody roads back... 🙄 weak government let this happen. Weak government won't fix it... And they literally could just print the money to buy it 🦧
I love Govts talking about 'reviews'. They are meaningless unless they actually do something off the back of them. Govts of all persuasions have a bad habit of doing these to get headlines and 'be seen' to address a problem, but ultimately do very little about it.
As a truck operator who frequent the M7, I can tell you that the M7 congestions are at large caused by slow moving vehicles driven by clueless drivers. Doing 90kph in either the left or right lane for an extended period of time will build up traffic behind easily
On a side note (if you drive the F3/M1 at all) these idiot car drivers who sit in the middle lane on 80kph are so annoying/dangerous. Empty my 6.5t tare truck easily does 100 up most of those hills yet I'm not allowed to use lane 3. Come upon someone in lane 2 doing 80 while I'm doing 100 and I have nowhere to go. Why do they do this? No reason they can't use lane 1 and pop into lane 2 when they need to to get around slow truck. Or better yet just do 100 just like any modern car should be able to do even uphill. Then you get the idiots who can't keep a constant speed. You go to overtake and they speed up so you're stranded in lane 3 (talking about in my car now). You drop behind them and they slow down again. Seriously dude use your cruise control. Don't most modern cars have that? I have a stock standard 2004 Mit Magna and it has it.
Completely false. Traffic through-flow is higher when there is serious congestion if you have a lower speed limit because vehicles don't bunch up so much. Bunching up is what causes stop-start. THAT, not safety, is the reason roads with variable speed limits turn the limit down when they get really busy.
as someone that drives a trucks as part of my work the m7 and other such tolled roads i can say with confidence that most of the problems with the traffic is due to horrific planning and no planning for future development or improvement
to be fair, they did build the m7 to accommodate 3 lanes per side. the problem is, they should have just built all 3 from the get go since it will now cost an order of magnitude more to do the upgrade, not to mention the disruption.
@iris that is true but then there is the other problem of the traffic merge and right lane hoggers in which police fail to enforce. besides there being giant signs that state the law/ rule 🙄.......but who cares what i think im just a steering wheel attendee
This is why you can't involve private companies in transport networks. At the end of the day they are only going to whats profitable. The ability to move easily and affordibly around the city you live should be considered a human right.
His example (5:45) is a false dichotomy fallacy because it presents only two options, ignoring two other possible variables-moving closer to the job you have or getting a new job that is closer to where you live.
I drove up from Melbourne to Sydney for a friends wedding in June. I was astonished to see the Westlink M7 was just two lanes each way despite being a toll road. The equivalent road in Melbourne, Eastlink M3, is a minimum of three lanes each way from the Mullum Mullum Tunnel all the way to Frankston. Even the Western Ring Road is minimum three lanes each way from Plenty Road through to the Princes Freeway, with more than that for large stretches of the road. And the Western Ring Road is free to use.
Good video on a *very* important topic affecting the majority of Sydney residents. You covered most of the relevant points well, given the limited time available to do so. I've watched and liked several of your other videos, but this is the one that convinced me to subscribe. Thanks, please continue your good work.
Sydney has been neglected for years as the city road network for the most part has created brain aneurisms for common commuters, then alternatively they build a motor way to ease the stress. But more often than not it’s usually way too late and when the roadworks start it makes the situation so much worse, then is some cases we are forced onto motorways just to pay a heavy fee. It’s ridiculous
With a small population (relatively) the roads could not be built or ugraded (and they wern't) without the tollways. At least we don't have the penalty taxes on private vehicles that operate in the UK and Europe. Its also the reason we do not have "high speed rail" not enough population to make it sustainable.
Thanks. Take the M7, built with the capacity for three lanes each, but only fitted with two. I have heard they do this, to ensure that work will always be available. I do some work at Orchard Hills. From Liverpool, no M7 and M4, Camden Valley way, Bringelly and Northern Roads, now all dual carriage.
Hi, just want to say I love your channel and videos. Thanks for making the information digestible and entertaining. So nice to have a Sydney based channel.
I admire your research! New Zealand toll roads only charge $2.40 - $2.80. However public transport in Sydney is significantly cheaper than New Zealand. Retail & supermarket is more expensive in NZ, as is the higher GST and lower wages when compared to Australia. Good thing NZ citizens don't need a visa to move to Aussie.
Those who are old enough remember what it was like in the 1970's and 1980's when there were few tolls. What happened was that motorways took decades to build. It took 40 years to build the M4 on the drip feed budgets available at the time. Compare that to the M7 which was designed and built in 3 years. The benefit you left off was that whilst the government isn't spending money on "free" motorways, they have been able to put massive amounts into public transport. We would not have the upgrades to Sydney Trains and the Metros if we were still spending public money on expensive road projects.
It makes me laugh when tourists call Sydney beautiful. I bet most of them never leave the eastern suburbs where nowhere near half the city's population live
My first right hand drive was in Sydney in 1986. Haven't driven in Sydney in over 20 years. Too many toll roads then and now. I stay off toll roads which in Melbourne which have speed limit of 80 k. Tolls fund criminal orgs like Transurban that now wants to toll every road and street in Australia, and put tolls on pedestrians and bike riders.
Love these videos, great work! Now I'm from WA, where any mention of a toll road would end in a swift political death, I do love visiting Sydney though, gorgeous city. NSW really has had some god awful governments and public officials over the decades though with greed, nepotism and a healthy dose of corruption leading these types of messes. Transurban really does just have the whole state by the proverbial balls and the poor working class are paying the piper. Today's governments have their hands tied by the predecessors disastrous dealings and will continue no matter what both sides tell the public. Future governments really should be looking for ways to take back ownership of the roads.
Sounds like the solution is just to improve public transit. Small investments like queue jumping for busses, transit priority at lights, or bus lanes can vastly improve the quality of transit for low cost.
Hi. Enjoy your videos and I subscribe to your channel. To note, Transurban is a publicly listed company on the ASX. Owners are the shareholders. I wouldn’t say it’s a private company.
In Metro Manila and Cebu, the Philippines and its surrounding area, all Expressways are tolled. Only one expressway is tollfree, but it is from nowhere to nowhere and is expected to be eventually tolled as well. Three major companies operates and collect tolls, one that is a beer conglomerate, one is a conglomerate with investments in water, telecom and electricity of Manila and the last one with focus on real estate and both son and mother are Senators.
Thank you for your wonderful videos. One day, yourself, Peter Dibble, Road Guy Rob and Auto Shenanigans channel should do a livestream on the motor vehicle transport infrastructure. Awesome videos by you all. The Portland Highway by Peter Dibble should be a core seminar for Cities Skylines video game players with lectures supported by yourselves.
As a Melbournian, any toll we go on in Sydney costs a fortune in tolls. And I'm not interested in going the slow way when I'm there! It's not recouping the cost of roads, transurban is making billions of dollars profit. It's flat out robbery on top of paying taxes and registration on cars etc.
A polluting noisy activity like driving a car should be discouraged, just use publictransport. Highway Roads are only for trucks and exceptionnal transports. Lets keep high tolls. And yes, sometimes you need to move closer to work. Tolls should not just go to private companies but be reinvested in public transport. Tolls being disuasive, they do not need to be ‘fair’. Lets live around where our home is, using our own feet and bike.
Some private companies built & operates toll roads, eventually NSW will receive the toll roads without paying $1 for construction at the end of BOT. SYD Harbour Tunnel is an example, 30 years BOT is 1992-2022.
that image at 22:55 sums up not only sydney but australias apporach to public transportation. A train station surrounded by parking that people need to drive to. Not surrounded by mixed development, hopefully later on they infill it.
Marsden Park only has negative attributes. Expensive to buy, far from anywhere and devoid of local services. When you’re approaching 50,000 people while have the services of a small village = Marsden park.
It's insane how expensive Sydney transport is. I remember visiting last month and went one stop in the cbd on the train and it cost me more than a daily ticket in Perth 😳
Perth is a paradise in so many ways compared to Sydney and Melbourne. We are so lucky - low house prices and high wages and a lot less overcrowding and over-regulation.
@@person.X. I think my only real critique is all the car centric policies of the past which are now biting us on the arse a bit (It's a bit hard now to implement heavy rail and other solutions within the existing sprawl without it costing ridiculous amounts of money)
@@matejaobrenovic3338 I have my reservations about it but I think raising the density of housing in Perth will have to be the solution eventually. Yes the sprawl has become absurd. But higher density would make it more practical and economic to have facilities within walking distance. For example I live in an older suburb near Freo and I have everything I need within walking distance so I rarely use a car. The newer suburbs in the sprawl are tract style housing serviced my distant shopping strips like the USA so totally car dependent. As congestion increases the convenience and quality of life in those poorly designed suburbs will collapse.
@@person.X. same here, I commute often to Freo and love how they maintained the walkable-European style town. The way I could see it working in Freo (Increasing density whilest maintaining the architecture of the area is through returning the local trams/expanding them into the surrounding suburbs) I read about a plan between Cockburn, Freo and Melville councils to lobby the government for tram routes.
Insane...Australia is basically emulating the American model or transport where the car and roads are king....look what's happened there....totally near 100£ reliance on car ownership....as public transport is so poor. Follow the European, Chinese and Japanese models where high speed rail to paying massive benefitsdor the economy.........HS rail is the future
The motorway network is really fantastic, I've used the M4-M8 link a few times and it significantly reduces my travel time, however as you mentioned it is hideously expensive and significantly underutilised. Also worth having a look at the Strathfield section of Parramatta Road and the M4 entry. In the westbound direction there are two lanes for turning right into M4, but only one for going straight on Parramatta Road to the direction of Homebush / Flemington. Every day during peak hour there's substantial congestion on Parramatta Road because all the traffic is funneled into one lane and the lights at the Parramatta Road / Concord Road intersection are so short. This situation is absolutely ridiculous as all it does is force motorists who don't want to be hold up for 20 minutes to use the toll roads. One could argue that this was a coincidence but the cynic in me thinks this design was deliberate and intentional.
Omg same. I encounter this problem everyday. I just hate driving during day because of too much traffic, lately started nigh shifts. Again now it's effecting my mental health as during day can't sleep properly.
Here's a few facts to consider. 1. Of the 11 tollways in Sydney, Labor built 5 of them. The M7, Lane Cove Tunnels, Cross City Tunnels, Eastern Distributor and Military Road E-Ramps were all built under Labor governments, all were undersized and the Military Road E-Ramps are the most expensive tollways in the world on a cost per km basis. With this, Labor leader, Chris Minns is a hypocrite to even raise the subject of tolls. 2. If a toll is not applied, that does not mean the road is free. We all still pay a road tax in our registration renewals which fund road maintenance. Does anyone want this cost to go up? As for funding construction, as mentioned before Labor did little and what the did achieve was undersized. The Eastern Distributor is a carpark in the peaks because it cannot carry the traffic. 3. The original owners of the toll concessions on the Lane Cove Tunnel and Cross City Tunnel went broke and the latter went broke twice before Transurban stepped in and took them over. Labor got the business models wrong and the business models depended greatly on the free alternative being modified to reduce capacity and force people on to the tollway. Epping Road was reduced from a six-lane road to two lanes plus two bus lanes at the narrowest point and the speed limit was reduced from 80 to 60. 4. If a toll is not applied, the Government either has to raise debt or taxes to pay for construction. These methods discourage thinking big and things end up being built down to a price instead of up to a standard. Look at WestConnex - the tunnels are huge, they take all sizes of standard vehicles and on the M4-M8 mainline tunnels there are five lanes each way at the widest points, particularly where the Rozelle Interchange will join once it is opened next year. I drove on WestConnex today between the St Peters Interchange and Homebush and the trip took ten minutes but would have taken 45 minutes on the surface. I'm happy to cough up for that convenience. That said, we are paying, whether it be by a toll, by a higher tax or by paying the government more tax to pay back billions of extra debt. The bottom line is, nothing is free. User pays may suck to some but it is the fairest system - why should someone in Broken Hill pay for a project like WestConnex when they get no benefit from it? With private money (mostly) and private companies building projects like this we get them now and not in 40 years like it used to be. The 22km long WestConnex tunnels were built in the same time it has taken Melbourne's Westgate Tunnels to be half complete and they are only going to be about 4km long - a clear difference between how the Coalition does things and how Labor does them. Tolls or not, Sydney is a better city for having WestConnex. Thankyou to Barry O'Farrell, Mike Baird, Gladys Berejiklian and Dom Perrottet for giving NSW this road.
Very good and informative video. I've lived in Sydney when the only Toll Road was the Harbour Bridge. You have educated me on how crazy governments and planners have made this. My only suggestion is to buy shares in Transurban.
Yeah but the road ways were getting really congested and so was public transport. However, over the past 10 years massive amounts of infrastructure has been built and with people working from home getting around sydney has been become a lot easier. For example using the Westconnex I can get from Western Sydney to Sydney CBD pretty quickly(but it is a bit expensive at about $10 each way) or if I want to catch a train it is like $5.60 it much slower with a lot of stops but now I can pretty much always find a seat. Nothing was built under Labor, now Sydney looks like a massive construction site with so much new infrastructure being built.
After I watched this, I finally do understand why Sydney is one of the most tolled cities in the world: the fact that almost all the tolled roads are - obviously - owned by one company, the fact they are expensive and causing a cost of living crisis, and the fact that taxpayers will need to pay up more for the roads they built, even if they DIDN'T use them. This is why better, alternative options such as city planning (Parramatta, Bradfield) and public transport (Sydney Metro) are far more transformative in one's daily commute than building toll roads, while providing more employment and living opportunities and being good for the environment. Your best video analysis yet; I'm impressed. I think I'm subbed, right? 🙂
Agree entirely - well put. This is a brilliant analysis by Sharath of an intransigent issue that won't be solved anytime soon if ever. Because there was apparently very little effective transport planning done in the 80s and 90s (not sure why) more recent Govts had to play catch up because of rapid population growth during the 2000s. PPPs and roads were chosen by the Govt as the preferred way forward and the result has been that despite more recent metro developments we are now effectively locked into tolls. Not sure what Bradfield would think of all this.
@@tims8305, even worse - freeway corridors were sold off in the 1970s and 1980s by the Wran government. In terms of lack of planning, it really goes back much earlier - the New South Wales government kicked the can down the road from the 1960s onwards. Everything from double decker train carriages on was short term fix after short term fix after short term fix - and now the short term fixes have all been used up and the long term fixes cost ten times more than they would have in the 1960s and 1970s.
I used to travel to Gosford, from Melbourne, through Sydney on a regular basis. When the M7 toll road was built, all the helpful cross town direction signs disappeared and navigating became much more difficult.
Most toll roads were privately built without 1c from government. If Sydney Motorways, Harbour Bridge & Tunnel arr all free, how much would be NSW Budget & who would bother to use public transport?
Don't pay tolls. Ever. Never paid a single one in 20+ years of driving through Brisbane and Sydney. They are a private company. They have exactly ZERO jurisdiction to impose fines. All they can do is send you an invoice which you can simply deny. No risk to your licence. No risk to your car. Just stop paying tolls...
@@XaviRonaldo0 And? Again, all they can do is complain to the court that you haven't paid an invoice. Even then. Don't show up to court. You had a Family emergency that day. Your car broke down. You have Covid symptoms. Delay it for the next 6-7 years. Theoretically speaking if the people challenged just 15% of the speeding tickets handed out in court, no one would ever receive a ticket again. The entire system would come grinding to a halt. You don't beat the game by playing it how the enemy wants you to.
Your example working person of someone who lives in Marsden Park and works in Masoct was... eerie for me lmao. Only a couple of years ago I was exactly that and experienced the frustrating choice you described to a T.
Oh, I suppose I should also mention that I used to work customer service for Etoll - the branch of ServiceNSW that handles the government-controlled toll roads such as the Harbour Bridge and Tunnel. The whole situation was a complete shitfight, even over 5 years ago when I was there. I can't imagine it's improved much based on what I've seen since, and what you've described in this video.
I think we have to be realistic that we cannot afford alternative public transit solutions while people buy large homes on the urban fringe - sorry, but it makes no sense to subsidise 50km underground train trips from McMansions to Mascot. If people want rural living, they should expect rural services. People need to accept either greater (but still moderate) density, or sprawl and congestion. Urban freeways do not work; public transport to far-flung low-rise pretend manor houses also does not work. No politician appears willing to acknowledge this reality (except maybe Rob Stokes, and he’s leaving soon…).
Public transport to far-flung low-rise pretend manor houses can work (indeed, the late Paul Mees noted that a decent rail system could work with population densities as low as 13 per hectare). The problem is that a bowl of spaghetti after a one-year old has flung it about looks tidier than the Sydney bus network and the Sydney train network has issues going back decades. Fix up the fundamentals and then you might find things starting to work.
@@jodij2366 it can work physically but it really doesn't make any sense economically - to clarify, the problem I'm arguing is the lack of density that makes it a vast expensive tunneling exercise just to put in the infrastructure for ten suburbs (one that gets knocked back, more often than not). Metros become far easier to fund/build if they can serve two or three times as many people. Railway stations to people living in big homes far away amounts to an incredible subsidy per user and a poor urban experience. A hell of a lot of suburbs closer to employment centres are completely car-dependent due to the lack of trains - these should be fixed first & densified, imo
if people want rural living. they should actually move to the regions and outside of sydney. Decentralise the state, move to the regions for that feel. Sydney must build up and not out. Hate the NIMBYs and politicians who don't understand it
Found this channel through the metro proposal video, loving all you stuff! Myself personally i avoid toll roads as much as possible due to how unnecessarily high the cost is.
I used the M7 from Jedda Rd Prestons to Wallgrove Rd Horsley Park and it cost $6. Then they sent me a bill via mail because I didn’t have a tag, the total bill cost me $16 “ admin fee “ just to send a piece of paper to advise me that I had a bill?
NSW no matter Liberals or Labor, knows what roads are profitable so both Parties are so reluctant to pay for the construction costs. Let the private companies to bid for BOT contracts or else NSW may need to increase stamp duty, REGO & etc to achieve Balance Budget.
When I worked on the M4 tunnel project, We were told that once it’s all finished that they will start work on Parramatta Rd and it will basically force people to use the tunnels.
Hi Sharath, again great video! My only critique would be if you could use some examples of south western Sydney for comparison. Understand that you’re from north west so more familiar with that part of Sydney, but I think it would make the comparison more mind boggling on how bad south west is with public transports. At least north west has the metro and M2 & M4 aren’t that far apart so locals can choose. Then there’s m7 and northconnex. And now you’re going to get the new Metro from Parra to city and St Mary’s to aerotropolis. Try catching T2 or T3 from Liverpool to Wynyard- 55-58mins and that’s express. Compare to 20mins Parra or 30mins Blacktown. Even Campbelltown gets to the city in 45mins and it’s an extra 20km further from the city than Liverpool. There’s only one motorway- M5 and that’s quick becoming the most traffic jam road in Aus (fortunately it’s the only motorway with the cash back scheme). People living around the Fairfield LGA would have to drive 15-20mins in the morning just to get onto the M4 or M5 with only one train line as an alternative - and the frequency is 10-15mins during peak hour vs every 4mins on the western line. So public transports in the south west is probably 3 times worst than North West.
Cross City tunnel is dysfunctional. We should be trying to keep traffic out of CBD. Therefore cross city tunnel should be free and there should be a congestion charge to travel on surface streets through the city.
Great video. PPP is basically borderline corruption or grey gifts. Governments have little benefit for doing so other than profits going to private hands to reward them later. Governments are meant to carry Infrastructure debts. They can still have a transparent bidding for lowest building costs. People really need to pushback harder to get government control only, once its paid its free. The contracts signed make sure the public get screwed should anything happen. Its a private cash-cow that didnt need to happen
Nice video! Amazing to think Sydney with a small population by world standards is the most tolled city on Earth! It really started when this government came in as there was an influx of new projects and the private company took every cent possible. When compared to other Australian cities which offer discounts and time of day tolling, the tolling system here is quite unfair.
I remember when the M4 was built and would be toll free after paid for, which it was for a very short time. Also the Harbour Bridge was supposed to be toll free now and was for a short time until the inbound toll was reintroduced. If Transurban own the whole lot, surely they can simplify the pricing structure to encourage more use. One question though, will we have to pay Transurban forever?
@@tubester4567 both the Harbour Bridge and the M4 were paid for and toll free for a short time but then the tolls were reintroduced, to help pay for other roads we were told. There was such a fuss about the Harbour Bridge that they made the toll one way, so only inbound vehicle pay the toll. For a very short period they were both toll free.
I've just found your channel - great analysis. The PPP model for infrastructure has failed everywhere. It is also an invitation to corruption. Transurban pay shareholders $1.75 billion a year plus other interest. Think where we could be if that cash went into public transport. Every new road attracts more traffic on the system. More cash for Transurban and more jams on our local streets.
More decentralization outside of Sydney is the solution. Central Coast, Newcastle and Wollongong should be given the chance to grow. Sydney gets everything because the government are in a pissing competition with Melbourne.
Most of the population of NSW lives in Sydney. Of course government is going to pander to that. However there is still a significant population outside Sydney (about 3 million). They shouldn't ignore it
@@Peter-ev2kr I'm sure that will come with time. A lot of Australians are moving out of the cities. We just aren't used to being so crowded like most immigrants are. Leave the major cities to the immigrants I say
Part of the problem is that the government makes deals with these monsters to filter traffic onto these toll roads. They change traffic conditions on existing roads to either force you onto the tolls or at the very least make the free roads almost unusable. While I understand the northconnex mandate for trucks as it's actually an interstate route there's another one that they're likely to mandate. The M5 tunnel instead of Stoney Creek Rd. Only trucks allowed to use SC Rd will be DG carrying trucks.
Hey Sarath, you hit on nail, mate.😢 You voiced my words and feeling, I was waiting to express somehow for long time. Good on you! I have been paying over $22 per day for commuting to & fro work. And cost me nearly $6000 per year because I have no choice. Government is acting like blood sucking parasite! I remember those days when 1st phase of Westconnex started from parramatta to Strathfield, upgrading M4. The first billboard I saw suggesting around $450 million for the project and then started rise up in few weeks to almost 3/4 of the billion. And one day it completely disappeared after some amount $800 millions or over. That was to me, of course annoying, and also to show how incapable and lossy project management work structure they have got. No wonder, why they have to be parasitic!
Hi Sharath, thanks for an excellent video. I have just recently added your channel to my Featured Videos. I used to live in Sydney until moving to Melbourne in 1981 and it seems that Sydney has changed enormously since then. we have enough motorways down here. I really had no idea of the toll road situation up there. Just thinking, maybe the government should tax Transurban rather than the general public. Hmm!! I have just checked up the owner of Melbourne's toll roads and...you guessed it, Transurban!!!. This lot seem to have a huge monopoly all over. Anyway, all the very best. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
I moved out of Sydney in 2021. I have lived there for 14 years, but I could see that all the Sydney metro areas get more and more unbearable to live. The cost of housing, congestion, frequent transportation problems, crowds...etc. I just had enough of Sydney. Let's be honest, guys! Life is just shit for many people in Sydney!
A very interesting video. One point you didn't mention was Labor's apparent disinterest in building infrastructure. I don't think it can be denied that the LNP has built more road, rail, metro and light rail projects in the last decade or so than were done in the previous 30 years under either party. The only transport infrastructure news I've heard regarding Labor is cancelling Beachlink and possibly Bankstown Metro (although I wouldn't disagree with the latter. Plenty more deserving areas given they've already got a perfectly functional heavy rail). I want to vote for a party that builds, not cancels, and still waiting for Mr Minns to announce anything on this.
Not defending Labor, but most of the infrastructure was financed by selling the electricity system, which will be a huge mess in 5-10 years time, requiring the government to get back in.
Beachlink was cancelled due to the residents of Bondi protesting. Dumb. The M5 East was built by Labor for $800m toll-free. Now the LNP slapped an $8 toll on the M5 east!
Does it need to be spelled out to you how the Liberals afford their spending? Give Labor a term to sort the finances out and they’ll deliver just as much infrastructure, and maybe one or two on time or within budget which would be a change! It was a Labor government (Federal yes) after all that laid the blueprint for infrastructure projects growing the economy.
On the CCT I have a semi regular run from Smithfield-Darlinghurst/Wollomolloo/French's Forest. It only takes on average 7 minutes to drive across Bathurst St/Elizabeth St and down Oxford St to get to the loading docks of St Vincent's Hospital. If I used the CCT I would still have to circumnavigate Rushcutters Bay and make my way to the docks. It might even take more time going that way.
Well I am pretty sure public transport is substidised by the government. Plus driving is a lot more expensive when you factor in cost of running a car, fuel, rego, tolls, parking, fines etc.
The gross shity funnel going bust should have been a chance for the state govt to buy it cheap and pocket the profits... if they'd paid almost nothing they could have had a lower toll and still made a profit. But that would have privatised the losses and socialised the profits, and we can't ever do that.
May I please ask, with your fantasy Sydney metro maps, did you create them yourself? You have such a talent for map making. You're so young and they are so impressive. In addition, you're incredibly knowledgeable on transport issues. You really have a gift, mate. I sincerely hope you end up in government one day (albeit, maybe not the NSW gov, considering the corruption) and make Australia a better place for all of us. I can see that you have a big future ahead of you. Much respect from this 30-something year old bloke in Perth, WA. (PS. We have no tolls roads here in WA. I think we have something of a different mentality to people in the Eastern States. We didn't go through the huge privatisation drives that many eastern states did and people here are fiercely protective of utilities and infrastructure remaining in the Government's hands. Some people may think we're a bit backwards at times but most Western Australians believe that infrastructure should not be about profit over service delivery.) (PPS. Holy moly you've got Michael West in your video. You CLEARLY understand what you're talking about!)
Mate, your videos are super informative and interesting. May I have one suggestion, when you do voice over recording, could you make the sound of you breathing in less loud? It could be fixed in post production. That would make the audio more seamless to listen to.
Sydney should trial complete removal of tolls for a year and measure the effects. Companies affected can have their costs covered to last year's financials plus 10%.
coming fron the hills area, I absolutley loathe the prices and I can't justifiying paying nearly $20 jus to save like 10 mins -_- ps. How do I become friends with "Rowan" ?! hahaa
The clem 7 tunnel in Brisbane also failed in a similar way to the cross-city tunnel in Sydney. At least they're was a little bit of success with the opening of the Airportlink and Legacy way tunnels, but even they still didn't quite meet their predicted usage levels.
@@ActiveAussie2024 because they realised most of the traffic on the roads leading into the city was in fact not traffic trying to bypass the inner city, but instead it was because everyone was trying to get into the City. And the tolls encouraged even more people not to use the clem 7
Hey everyone! Been meaning to make this video for ages, but I wanted to wait till closer to the election as toll roads are an issue that will be on many people's minds when they head to the polls in late March. I know it'll be on my mind. I honestly still don't even know who I'm going to vote for! Anyways, I aimed to be as balanced as I could in this video. I've seen so many different perspectives on toll roads; from those who wish we'd all stop whining about toll roads as they are a very important part of our transport network, to those who think people deserve to be punished with tolls for driving instead of taking the train. It's a complex topic and I hope I approached it in a balanced way.
As for Rowan...he's a friend of mine, and a mutual friend of ours submitted that response as a joke haha. I can confirm that he does not drive up and down the M4 in his Porsche to flex his wealth 🤣. (But he does love smoking imaginary ciggys, as you may see at 05:10...don't ask.)
So do you have an data on WHEN the tollways will be ‘paid off’?
The tolls in sydney are one of the reason I bailed out. Lived in paddington and worked in north ryde. Tolls were mad then and probably worse now.
Well look at the amount infrastructure projects completed and on the way over the past 12 years. Compared to the previous 15 or so years under labor. Anyone working or interested in infrastructure would find voting this year an easy choice, the incumbent government is the obvious choice.
I mentioned this channel to a friend that works in the PT sector and he said it was recommended to him by a colleague, so public transport employees are watching your channel and enjoying it. Well done.
@@kn6496 I also found it strange although not surprising for a young person that he actually either didn’t pick up on or total ignored that fact that Labor seemed to ‘qualify’ their payment to people ‘without a public transport optionI’m. Listen to what he says with if it’s correct means their going to limit it to certain areas where people don’t have trains; not everyone using the toll roads. I do get angry when people don’t listen and question what politicians say: to me it seemed obvious there’s was a get out clause in the promise.
It's insane. Have you heard about the "no competition" clauses in the private motorway contracts. If competeing public transport infrastructure is built then the government has to pay a penalty to the private company. Insane.
Ikr, it shows that they know that these toll roads will fail, congest and damage urban areas and inevitably be replaced by better, publicly-owned transit solutions, so they just make it absurdly expensive to even plan in the city.
It shows that the urban growth ponzi scheme that we daily live with will never die, because either forty lawsuits or a single contract clause will be enough to topple any scheme that seeks to prevent private market intrusion in the most basic, tantamount to rights services of fucking housing and transit
I understand why they would have such clauses. If you spend billions or tens of billions of dollars to build a road, you are taking a huge risk. It wouldn't be fair if the government would notice that "oh, there seems to be demand" and then spend couple hundred million dollars to build some kind of rapid transit system right next to the motorway. This makes sence, if you want to have private companies invest in large infrastructure projects. But I don't think any government should be making these kinds of deals.
Ha! Hi dave, i see you have also found this little gem of a channel.
Also didn't nsw gov sell off 49% of the grid to fund the m4 tunnel? Or am i remembering that wrong.
why would the government agree to such a contract. seems backward. im under the impression the tax payer pays for all the infurstructure to be built
@@tld8102 It makes perfect sense to me. Private profit for those with the right connections.
The military road off ramp might be the most expensive toll/distance. $1.89 for cars and $6.36 for trucks, for a single off ramp!
Try the lane cove road ramps on the M2 - essentially a lot worse
At a length of just 200 metres for $1.89 or $9.45 per kilometre the Military Road E-Ramp North bound is by far the most expensive toll road in Sydney
Agreed.. a ridiculous toll for what would have been a relatively cheap construction
True. Plus as part of the so-called-upgrade of the Waringah Expressway, they are closing the Alfred St (North Sydney) exit. I know this because a few weeks ago, I was in a taxi and directed the driver to this exit but then was stopped by roadworks in Alfred St N & had a very long and confusing detour that included windy & narrow one-way streets. Next time, driver used Military Rd exit, then tramway lane to get to Falcon St.
The idea that an off ramp between a public road and another public road is a privately owned toll road is utter stupidity.
Your commitment and dedication is something that cannot be understated. 24 minutes of pure information and entertainment is just brilliant. Well done to you.
The toll road situation in Sydney is way out of hand right now and the ever increasing toll prices have caused Parramatta Road, Canterbury Road, King Georges Road, Stoney Creek Road, Croydon Road, and Kingsgrove Road to be more and more congested as people try to avoid paying tolls along with the ever increasing truck traffic.
But for me a much faster journey as people avoid them
Before Westconnex, we would use the M4 to go to Ikea Rhodes
Now we endure the never ending bumps on Parramatta Road.
Before the tollways were built, these were the only roads anyone could use. The tollways have taken traffic off the old arterials, not added traffic to them.
@@yukko_parra - it’s cheaper to use the toll. Just use it. Don’t be a cheapskate.
Very true Master. To add all residential streets are busier due to motorists using these to by-pass congested arterial roads. It’s a joke and we as a society do not deserve to be treated like fools to be tolled into poverty. This country is so bad for getting to/from work where we pay taxes.
Dude I just love your channel. A hyperlocal analysis of Sydney's infrastructure is just phenomenal, a niche which is important and really interesting.
dont stop the videos mate. glad to have someone with a voice actually talking about these issues and breaking down how just unfair the whole system has really been. NSW deserves better
Hey Sharath - I feel that you missed an additional key point when talking about Transurban contracts, being that the Government guarantees "minimums" - as in, the minimum amount of cars using the toll roads. So if there are more cars on the road, that means more money for Transurban -- if the number of cars drop below the guaranteed minimum, the Government (i.e. the taxpayer) pays the difference. Which means either way, the taxpayers continue to pay a private company even when the community chooses to not use the toll road.
Wtf? Is that actually true.
We,ve got to get private companies out of all parts of transit. They always weasel their way to make more money off of us.
@Chris Ellis That is very true and now that the government has withdrawn from the tollway system, it will never revert to government ownership.
I would like to know how they justify the continuing rising of fees
Damn, I can't shake the feeling that Sydney has become the promised land for rent seekers.
I live in Penrith and my work is in Tuggerah on the central coast. My journey consists of M4, M7, M2 and Northconnex tunnel there and back every day in my Ute that I need to carry my tools. It costs me over $100 return trip a day for fuel and tolls. That’s about $25,000 per year. When I hear about cash back schemes it’s like a joke.
Move.
@@kcobley I've got to agree. Home rental prices on the Central Coast are comparable to Penrith. Unless you have some really compelling reason to stay in Penrith, it's a no-brainer to save the money and the 3+ hours daily commute.
@@kcobley $25K x 10 years = $250K. You are right. Move closer to work. Or, find a job closer to home.
This explains why the transition to EVs is essential. For those with home solar panels and battery storage, the perpetual petrol bills are immediately eliminated. For a 2 car household, the savings for both petrol and ICE car maintenance is a staggering $50K over 10 years. For those who drive more and have larger households, the savings are even greater.
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b Nothing to do with EVs mate, not using cobalt heavy Teslas manufactured on child labour.
Thing that struck me about Sydney infastructure as an American was the use of public infastructure by private companies for profit. Tolls in many areas of the US (ex. ezpass) are for certain highways or for certain roads, and seem to be priced to help cover the cost of maintaining the infrastructure. You have some in cities like NYC that are a bit extortionate (ex. $20 USD to cross a bridge in NYC as you drive through the city), but generally speaking the money goes to the government.
In Sydney, you have private groups that own tunnels! You even have the airports that own their own station on the rail line and set their own prices for the service. Never mind that they use public transport infrastructure, and that without this infrastructure they’d have no station to begin with 😂.
Sydney needs to be better about making the infastructure owned by the state and tolled for maintenance/recover initial costs, not other shit. Seems like a huge oversight
For some reason, Sydney airport indeed has the privilege to add around $14 fee to this section of the rail line between the airport and the city. Add to this the normal train fare. So you have to pay in total $18.4 to commute from the airport to the city (4 stations). A 11 min long trip. Very few people take this train, as far as i'm aware. Everyone either takes that bus right outside the terminal, or their own car, or a taxi. It's such a waste. I don't know of any other city that does something as stupid. Besides, you can add those $4 you have to pay to rent that baggage trolley. That i've never seen either in any other airport, in Asia and in Europe.
There are a few places where private companies get the benefit. In Chicago, a private company has leased the Chicago Skyway, which goes from the Indiana Toll Road in the east to the Dan Ryan Expressway. They've hiked tolls without improving maintenance and pocket the profit. But I think because of that, a lot of local US governments have either opted to keep it all in house or set legal limits to what the private companies charge.
All road infrastructure in NSW is owned by the NSW Government, including all tollways. The Government contracts a company to provide credit, construct and maintain a tollway for a determined length of time and receives toll revenue in exchange for it. After the toll concession expires the Government takes over the operation of the road. There used to be tolls on the F3 and F6 Freeways (now called Pacific Motorway and Princes Motorway respectively) and once the loans for these were paid off the tolls were removed. Come to think of it, there was originally two tolls on the F3, one at Berowra and another at the bottom of Mt White. 10c each until the two sections were joined, then the Mt White toll plaza was removed and the toll at Berowra was doubled to 20c.
@2019 Ram 1500 ah yes public losses and privatized gains (aka socialism for the rich), of course, America knows nothing of that, do they??? 🤦🏻♀
Not to mention that in NYC, you can usually just take the train (rare thing to say for an American city), and lots of people do just that
Motorways add traffic to local streets at the start and end of the journeys, often the traffic relief is only for a few years before the inducement fills those streets again. When they are putting in a motorway to provide relief they need to also make changes to those roads that the traffic is removed from, permanent parking to help local businesses, bus lanes, cycle paths, outdoor eating for businesses etc
Thank you for including me at 11:58! Awesome video Sharath!
I find it ridiculous how expensive tolls are. If in the state election a new government wins hopefully we see a fall in prices. Its also quite confusing how they are also building heaps of train, metro and light rail lines as well so it just makes it more confusing for people. I don’t think the government is properly thinking about transportation. In my opinion I think they should completely scrap the idea for new motorways in order to reduce the amount of pollution by cars. Thank you again for this great video! 😄
By utilising bike/ebike and train your Marsden Park to Mascot becomes a 1 hour train and 2 x ~15min cycles which is a great bit of exercise. Same time as driving no tolls and many people are able to get some work done on the train. Can't do that in a car.
Making it safe to cycle to and from train stations is much more cost-effective than funnelling money to Transurban.
I moved from Sydney to Melbourne around 2016 because even back then before our inflation problem Sydney was simply just unliveable. Melbourne is a world's apart difference especially for public transport with the exception of the Western suburbs which are lacking.
Indeed we are.
You haven't travelled much if you think Melbourne has good public transport - it's worse than Sydney in fact. When i visited Sydney it was much more seamless, mel didn't even have a link to the 24hr international airport.
@@smiddysmidton8313 The SkyBus in Melbourne which runs from Southern Cross to Tullamarine might not be a train but it runs 7 days a week, almost 24 hours/day. The fare costs about the same as Sydney's airport train. There are also local buses to the airport from Broadmeadows station.
Perth opened its new Airport line a few months ago. Very modern very comfortable to use and just pay a normal fare to get to the Airport. 😃👍
@@zoomosis buses are so last century though
Ever since they opened the M8, they tolled the M5 tunnel, which was previously not tolled (for as long as I remember anyways). Adding nearly $16 per day to my tolls. To get to work, I pay roughly $35 a round trip, with $10 back for the M5 cashback scheme.
It's either that, making my trip around 45 to 50 minutes, compared to nearly 2 hrs on public transport, including wait times for trains and buses.
mate that blows my mind. Can i ask, what suburb you live in? im not from Sydney but why 2 hours? are there no good public transport options within walking distance?
And this wanna be labour leader wont commit to removing that toll because he knows he cant with out heavy compensation the the opperator.
But then again i have a small parcel of sheares with transurban and doing nicely
@@amac2612 around Narellan, south west Sydney.
About a 10 to 15 minute drive to the closest station, with a bus being 5 to 10 minutes longer. Trains run every half an hour or so (been a while since I've checked).
the ONLY way to protest the current situation is by making a collective effort to boycott those stupidly expensive roads. Not a personal reproach, but if for convenience, you still agree to pay these extortionate fees, you shouldn't complain. It's basically what they offer you : "you want convenience ? you want to save time ? well, that will cost you $35. (until the next price hike) You're not happy ? We have a monopoly, so get lost, and feel free to spend 2hrs waiting for that bus if you like"
@@amac2612The thing to realise about Sydney is that it has a population of over 5 million, that's more than the entire population of New Zealand. You will never service every resident with good public transport. There's too many people in too many different locations travelling to too many different destinations on a daily basis.
Having said that, assuming you are commuting to one of the central business districts there is good public transport options if you are willing to move close to a rail line, of which there are many. But you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Frankly if you want a good quality of life I would suggest leaving (or in your case never moving to) Sydney. The current trend of smaller and smaller housing for more and more money in denser and denser areas is never going to stop. Quality of life only gets worse in Sydney year over year.
The congestion on local roads running parallel to Motorways is more to do with induced demand rather than toll avoidance. That is why they narrowed Epping Road and created bus lanes as soon as the LCT opened. An even better example is the bus lane on lane 7 of the SHB. Despite the protests at the time, the Government did the right thing in installing the bus lane as soon as the SHT opened. If they hadn't, lane 7 would have become congested withing months.
Sydney government be like:
Two motorways need connecting to reduce traffic on the local road
*Connects two motorways with a toll road
"Why is the local road still congested?"
I’ve been screaming this for years! But instead people will protest about useless shiet 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Many of the toll roads are actually car parks.
when they built the M5 it was two lanes, then realised they needed 3, then eventually they needed 4 lanes lol So when they build the M7 they built two lanes. Its basic profiteering for multi corps to cash in on projects that are set up for re investments... Line em up
Lol 😂😂
The real reason is induced demand. You get people moving to use the toll road but you also incourage new drivers to fill up the local roads again for more local trips.
Absolutely awesome stuff! When you said "crunch" in the beginning, I felt that! Thank you for these wonderfully made videos on our beloved city of Sydney.
There's a Daily Telegraph article online stating that the Falcon Street off ramps at North Sydney are the most expensive. $1.89 (would be more now) to travel 200m equates to $7.70 per KM. Cross City Tunnel is useful when coming into the city from the North West along Victoria Road and over the Anzac Bridge. You go through Darling Harbour and into the Cross City Tunnel and it takes you into the Eastern Distributor which is toll-free southbound. Much cheaper than using the M2 Lane Cove Tunnel and Harbour bridge.
Transport for NSW NEEDS TO GIVE YOU A JOB. You are one of the best yt bers at the moment.
Great video well researched. I have been in a toll lunch room talking about alternative routes. The government privatisation of everything has resulted in a lack of income.
I moved out of Sydney 10 years ago in my weekly commute I could easily avoid tolls. When I come back to see friends I'm repeatedly reminded of why I left. I now refer to Sydney as the city of transurban. Less and less of my social circle remain in Sydney as cost of living and the general feel of the city has been destroyed.
Sydney is super expensive but if you are lucky enough to afford to live close to friends and family in or near the city it is not bad. However, to do so you would probably need a 6 figure salary as a minimum and probably close to $150k/yr to be comfortable.
I think an important part of Minns’ proposal that not a lot of people talk about is that he would appoint the former chair of the ACCC to perform a structural review of Sydney’s Toll Roads, with the $60 cap being a temporary solution whilst the review is underway. That would probably lead to a lot more reform than it initially sounds.
cant support a $60 cap. thats only $10 more than the $50 cap on public transport. they should be incentivising public transport use, not making it cheaper for single occupant vehicles to clog the streets.
Or just buy the bloody roads back... 🙄 weak government let this happen. Weak government won't fix it...
And they literally could just print the money to buy it 🦧
@@iris4547 did you not watch the video?
I love Govts talking about 'reviews'. They are meaningless unless they actually do something off the back of them. Govts of all persuasions have a bad habit of doing these to get headlines and 'be seen' to address a problem, but ultimately do very little about it.
One of the best up and coming Australian UA-camrs, already subbed😀
As a truck operator who frequent the M7, I can tell you that the M7 congestions are at large caused by slow moving vehicles driven by clueless drivers. Doing 90kph in either the left or right lane for an extended period of time will build up traffic behind easily
On a side note (if you drive the F3/M1 at all) these idiot car drivers who sit in the middle lane on 80kph are so annoying/dangerous. Empty my 6.5t tare truck easily does 100 up most of those hills yet I'm not allowed to use lane 3. Come upon someone in lane 2 doing 80 while I'm doing 100 and I have nowhere to go. Why do they do this? No reason they can't use lane 1 and pop into lane 2 when they need to to get around slow truck. Or better yet just do 100 just like any modern car should be able to do even uphill.
Then you get the idiots who can't keep a constant speed. You go to overtake and they speed up so you're stranded in lane 3 (talking about in my car now). You drop behind them and they slow down again. Seriously dude use your cruise control. Don't most modern cars have that? I have a stock standard 2004 Mit Magna and it has it.
Completely false. Traffic through-flow is higher when there is serious congestion if you have a lower speed limit because vehicles don't bunch up so much. Bunching up is what causes stop-start. THAT, not safety, is the reason roads with variable speed limits turn the limit down when they get really busy.
as someone that drives a trucks as part of my work the m7 and other such tolled roads i can say with confidence that most of the problems with the traffic is due to horrific planning and no planning for future development or improvement
to be fair, they did build the m7 to accommodate 3 lanes per side. the problem is, they should have just built all 3 from the get go since it will now cost an order of magnitude more to do the upgrade, not to mention the disruption.
@iris that is true but then there is the other problem of the traffic merge and right lane hoggers in which police fail to enforce. besides there being giant signs that state the law/ rule 🙄.......but who cares what i think im just a steering wheel attendee
@@iris4547 Imagine the congestion everywhere when they are going to add a 3rd lane now, and it will take years.
Why on the hell's earth they didn't make the M7 3 lanes each way I'll never know.
This is why you can't involve private companies in transport networks. At the end of the day they are only going to whats profitable. The ability to move easily and affordibly around the city you live should be considered a human right.
His example (5:45) is a false dichotomy fallacy because it presents only two options, ignoring two other possible variables-moving closer to the job you have or getting a new job that is closer to where you live.
I drove up from Melbourne to Sydney for a friends wedding in June. I was astonished to see the Westlink M7 was just two lanes each way despite being a toll road. The equivalent road in Melbourne, Eastlink M3, is a minimum of three lanes each way from the Mullum Mullum Tunnel all the way to Frankston. Even the Western Ring Road is minimum three lanes each way from Plenty Road through to the Princes Freeway, with more than that for large stretches of the road. And the Western Ring Road is free to use.
Love this channel. Keep up the good work, voicing many of our concerns!
This is Brilliant. You did an excellent job in enlightening the people of this frightful reality, with your informative and well-detailed research.
Good video on a *very* important topic affecting the majority of Sydney residents.
You covered most of the relevant points well, given the limited time available to do so.
I've watched and liked several of your other videos, but this is the one that convinced me to subscribe.
Thanks, please continue your good work.
Sydney has been neglected for years as the city road network for the most part has created brain aneurisms for common commuters, then alternatively they build a motor way to ease the stress. But more often than not it’s usually way too late and when the roadworks start it makes the situation so much worse, then is some cases we are forced onto motorways just to pay a heavy fee. It’s ridiculous
@@dynevor6327 thats right! Sydney is a city in New South Wales 🤔 and?
With a small population (relatively) the roads could not be built or ugraded (and they wern't) without the tollways. At least we don't have the penalty taxes on private vehicles that operate in the UK and Europe. Its also the reason we do not have "high speed rail" not enough population to make it sustainable.
Thanks. Take the M7, built with the capacity for three lanes each, but only fitted with two. I have heard they do this, to ensure that work will always be available. I do some work at Orchard Hills. From Liverpool, no M7 and M4, Camden Valley way, Bringelly and Northern Roads, now all dual carriage.
Hi, just want to say I love your channel and videos. Thanks for making the information digestible and entertaining. So nice to have a Sydney based channel.
I admire your research! New Zealand toll roads only charge $2.40 - $2.80. However public transport in Sydney is significantly cheaper than New Zealand. Retail & supermarket is more expensive in NZ, as is the higher GST and lower wages when compared to Australia. Good thing NZ citizens don't need a visa to move to Aussie.
Nz is in a bad way
Yeah I guess there is a reason a lot Kiwis move to Australia.
Love the depth to the information! Didn’t know I should care about toll roads but you had me hooked.
Those who are old enough remember what it was like in the 1970's and 1980's when there were few tolls. What happened was that motorways took decades to build. It took 40 years to build the M4 on the drip feed budgets available at the time. Compare that to the M7 which was designed and built in 3 years. The benefit you left off was that whilst the government isn't spending money on "free" motorways, they have been able to put massive amounts into public transport. We would not have the upgrades to Sydney Trains and the Metros if we were still spending public money on expensive road projects.
Great job mate. So much hardwork must be going into your videos. Never stop!
I left that hell hole in 2005. Horrible place to live and the cost is ridiculous.
It makes me laugh when tourists call Sydney beautiful. I bet most of them never leave the eastern suburbs where nowhere near half the city's population live
@@XaviRonaldo0isnt that the case everywhere? as a a tourist its nice, but when you ACTUALLY have to live there its less good, or just shite.
My first right hand drive was in Sydney in 1986. Haven't driven in Sydney in over 20 years. Too many toll roads then and now. I stay off toll roads which in Melbourne which have speed limit of 80 k. Tolls fund criminal orgs like Transurban that now wants to toll every road and street in Australia, and put tolls on pedestrians and bike riders.
Love these videos, great work! Now I'm from WA, where any mention of a toll road would end in a swift political death, I do love visiting Sydney though, gorgeous city. NSW really has had some god awful governments and public officials over the decades though with greed, nepotism and a healthy dose of corruption leading these types of messes. Transurban really does just have the whole state by the proverbial balls and the poor working class are paying the piper. Today's governments have their hands tied by the predecessors disastrous dealings and will continue no matter what both sides tell the public. Future governments really should be looking for ways to take back ownership of the roads.
this video is why toll roads are useless and why I like living in perth
this channel is a hidden gem
The most disgusting open corruption in modern history and it’s in my country I am so ashamed of the disgusting corruption that goes on here
Sounds like the solution is just to improve public transit. Small investments like queue jumping for busses, transit priority at lights, or bus lanes can vastly improve the quality of transit for low cost.
Hi. Enjoy your videos and I subscribe to your channel. To note, Transurban is a publicly listed company on the ASX. Owners are the shareholders. I wouldn’t say it’s a private company.
Your measured and calm attitude (to something that makes me fume) is to be commended 🥂
Any chance of a video on Sydney's cycleways?
In Metro Manila and Cebu, the Philippines and its surrounding area, all Expressways are tolled. Only one expressway is tollfree, but it is from nowhere to nowhere and is expected to be eventually tolled as well.
Three major companies operates and collect tolls, one that is a beer conglomerate, one is a conglomerate with investments in water, telecom and electricity of Manila and the last one with focus on real estate and both son and mother are Senators.
Thank you for your wonderful videos. One day, yourself, Peter Dibble, Road Guy Rob and Auto Shenanigans channel should do a livestream on the motor vehicle transport infrastructure. Awesome videos by you all. The Portland Highway by Peter Dibble should be a core seminar for Cities Skylines video game players with lectures supported by yourselves.
As a Melbournian, any toll we go on in Sydney costs a fortune in tolls. And I'm not interested in going the slow way when I'm there!
It's not recouping the cost of roads, transurban is making billions of dollars profit. It's flat out robbery on top of paying taxes and registration on cars etc.
A polluting noisy activity like driving a car should be discouraged, just use publictransport. Highway Roads are only for trucks and exceptionnal transports. Lets keep high tolls. And yes, sometimes you need to move closer to work. Tolls should not just go to private companies but be reinvested in public transport. Tolls being disuasive, they do not need to be ‘fair’. Lets live around where our home is, using our own feet and bike.
Some private companies built & operates toll roads, eventually NSW will receive the toll roads without paying $1 for construction at the end of BOT. SYD Harbour Tunnel is an example, 30 years BOT is 1992-2022.
that image at 22:55 sums up not only sydney but australias apporach to public transportation. A train station surrounded by parking that people need to drive to. Not surrounded by mixed development, hopefully later on they infill it.
Great content, educational and unbiased reporting. Thank you
Marsden Park only has negative attributes. Expensive to buy, far from anywhere and devoid of local services. When you’re approaching 50,000 people while have the services of a small village = Marsden park.
And it's close to Rooty Hill/Mt Druitt satellite suburbs
It's insane how expensive Sydney transport is. I remember visiting last month and went one stop in the cbd on the train and it cost me more than a daily ticket in Perth 😳
Perth is a paradise in so many ways compared to Sydney and Melbourne. We are so lucky - low house prices and high wages and a lot less overcrowding and over-regulation.
@@person.X. I think my only real critique is all the car centric policies of the past which are now biting us on the arse a bit (It's a bit hard now to implement heavy rail and other solutions within the existing sprawl without it costing ridiculous amounts of money)
@@matejaobrenovic3338 I have my reservations about it but I think raising the density of housing in Perth will have to be the solution eventually. Yes the sprawl has become absurd. But higher density would make it more practical and economic to have facilities within walking distance. For example I live in an older suburb near Freo and I have everything I need within walking distance so I rarely use a car. The newer suburbs in the sprawl are tract style housing serviced my distant shopping strips like the USA so totally car dependent. As congestion increases the convenience and quality of life in those poorly designed suburbs will collapse.
@@person.X. same here, I commute often to Freo and love how they maintained the walkable-European style town. The way I could see it working in Freo (Increasing density whilest maintaining the architecture of the area is through returning the local trams/expanding them into the surrounding suburbs) I read about a plan between Cockburn, Freo and Melville councils to lobby the government for tram routes.
Insane...Australia is basically emulating the American model or transport where the car and roads are king....look what's happened there....totally near 100£ reliance on car ownership....as public transport is so poor.
Follow the European, Chinese and Japanese models where high speed rail to paying massive benefitsdor the economy.........HS rail is the future
The motorway network is really fantastic, I've used the M4-M8 link a few times and it significantly reduces my travel time, however as you mentioned it is hideously expensive and significantly underutilised.
Also worth having a look at the Strathfield section of Parramatta Road and the M4 entry. In the westbound direction there are two lanes for turning right into M4, but only one for going straight on Parramatta Road to the direction of Homebush / Flemington. Every day during peak hour there's substantial congestion on Parramatta Road because all the traffic is funneled into one lane and the lights at the Parramatta Road / Concord Road intersection are so short. This situation is absolutely ridiculous as all it does is force motorists who don't want to be hold up for 20 minutes to use the toll roads. One could argue that this was a coincidence but the cynic in me thinks this design was deliberate and intentional.
Omg same. I encounter this problem everyday. I just hate driving during day because of too much traffic, lately started nigh shifts. Again now it's effecting my mental health as during day can't sleep properly.
Try being in a truck when you a-hole car drivers jump in front of you at the last second
Here's a few facts to consider.
1. Of the 11 tollways in Sydney, Labor built 5 of them. The M7, Lane Cove Tunnels, Cross City Tunnels, Eastern Distributor and Military Road E-Ramps were all built under Labor governments, all were undersized and the Military Road E-Ramps are the most expensive tollways in the world on a cost per km basis. With this, Labor leader, Chris Minns is a hypocrite to even raise the subject of tolls.
2. If a toll is not applied, that does not mean the road is free. We all still pay a road tax in our registration renewals which fund road maintenance. Does anyone want this cost to go up? As for funding construction, as mentioned before Labor did little and what the did achieve was undersized. The Eastern Distributor is a carpark in the peaks because it cannot carry the traffic.
3. The original owners of the toll concessions on the Lane Cove Tunnel and Cross City Tunnel went broke and the latter went broke twice before Transurban stepped in and took them over. Labor got the business models wrong and the business models depended greatly on the free alternative being modified to reduce capacity and force people on to the tollway. Epping Road was reduced from a six-lane road to two lanes plus two bus lanes at the narrowest point and the speed limit was reduced from 80 to 60.
4. If a toll is not applied, the Government either has to raise debt or taxes to pay for construction. These methods discourage thinking big and things end up being built down to a price instead of up to a standard. Look at WestConnex - the tunnels are huge, they take all sizes of standard vehicles and on the M4-M8 mainline tunnels there are five lanes each way at the widest points, particularly where the Rozelle Interchange will join once it is opened next year. I drove on WestConnex today between the St Peters Interchange and Homebush and the trip took ten minutes but would have taken 45 minutes on the surface. I'm happy to cough up for that convenience. That said, we are paying, whether it be by a toll, by a higher tax or by paying the government more tax to pay back billions of extra debt.
The bottom line is, nothing is free. User pays may suck to some but it is the fairest system - why should someone in Broken Hill pay for a project like WestConnex when they get no benefit from it? With private money (mostly) and private companies building projects like this we get them now and not in 40 years like it used to be. The 22km long WestConnex tunnels were built in the same time it has taken Melbourne's Westgate Tunnels to be half complete and they are only going to be about 4km long - a clear difference between how the Coalition does things and how Labor does them.
Tolls or not, Sydney is a better city for having WestConnex. Thankyou to Barry O'Farrell, Mike Baird, Gladys Berejiklian and Dom Perrottet for giving NSW this road.
Very good and informative video. I've lived in Sydney when the only Toll Road was the Harbour Bridge. You have educated me on how crazy governments and planners have made this. My only suggestion is to buy shares in Transurban.
Yeah but the road ways were getting really congested and so was public transport. However, over the past 10 years massive amounts of infrastructure has been built and with people working from home getting around sydney has been become a lot easier. For example using the Westconnex I can get from Western Sydney to Sydney CBD pretty quickly(but it is a bit expensive at about $10 each way) or if I want to catch a train it is like $5.60 it much slower with a lot of stops but now I can pretty much always find a seat. Nothing was built under Labor, now Sydney looks like a massive construction site with so much new infrastructure being built.
Nailed it yet again Sharath. You're well and truly on your way to great thing's pal.
Kudos 👍👍🥳
After I watched this, I finally do understand why Sydney is one of the most tolled cities in the world: the fact that almost all the tolled roads are - obviously - owned by one company, the fact they are expensive and causing a cost of living crisis, and the fact that taxpayers will need to pay up more for the roads they built, even if they DIDN'T use them.
This is why better, alternative options such as city planning (Parramatta, Bradfield) and public transport (Sydney Metro) are far more transformative in one's daily commute than building toll roads, while providing more employment and living opportunities and being good for the environment.
Your best video analysis yet; I'm impressed. I think I'm subbed, right? 🙂
Agree entirely - well put. This is a brilliant analysis by Sharath of an intransigent issue that won't be solved anytime soon if ever. Because there was apparently very little effective transport planning done in the 80s and 90s (not sure why) more recent Govts had to play catch up because of rapid population growth during the 2000s. PPPs and roads were chosen by the Govt as the preferred way forward and the result has been that despite more recent metro developments we are now effectively locked into tolls. Not sure what Bradfield would think of all this.
@@tims8305, even worse - freeway corridors were sold off in the 1970s and 1980s by the Wran government.
In terms of lack of planning, it really goes back much earlier - the New South Wales government kicked the can down the road from the 1960s onwards. Everything from double decker train carriages on was short term fix after short term fix after short term fix - and now the short term fixes have all been used up and the long term fixes cost ten times more than they would have in the 1960s and 1970s.
I used to travel to Gosford, from Melbourne, through Sydney on a regular basis. When the M7 toll road was built, all the helpful cross town direction signs disappeared and navigating became much more difficult.
As for the tolls there is nothing we can do about them until they revert to government ownership.
Many years in the future!
Simple. Don't pay the toll fees. If everyone protested by not paying, things would change very quickly
@@michaelr.7805 I will still be using them. No way I am going to crawl along Parramatta RD at 5kms/hour..(Albeit I mostly use public transport).
Most toll roads were privately built without 1c from government. If Sydney Motorways, Harbour Bridge & Tunnel arr all free, how much would be NSW Budget & who would bother to use public transport?
@michaelr.7805
If everyone protested by not paying, the banks would do the same then GFC in 2008 will repeat.
Don't pay tolls. Ever. Never paid a single one in 20+ years of driving through Brisbane and Sydney. They are a private company. They have exactly ZERO jurisdiction to impose fines. All they can do is send you an invoice which you can simply deny. No risk to your licence. No risk to your car. Just stop paying tolls...
Yeah but if you wrack up enough of a debt to make it worth it they can take you to court.
@@XaviRonaldo0
And? Again, all they can do is complain to the court that you haven't paid an invoice.
Even then. Don't show up to court. You had a Family emergency that day. Your car broke down. You have Covid symptoms. Delay it for the next 6-7 years.
Theoretically speaking if the people challenged just 15% of the speeding tickets handed out in court, no one would ever receive a ticket again. The entire system would come grinding to a halt.
You don't beat the game by playing it how the enemy wants you to.
Your example working person of someone who lives in Marsden Park and works in Masoct was... eerie for me lmao. Only a couple of years ago I was exactly that and experienced the frustrating choice you described to a T.
Oh, I suppose I should also mention that I used to work customer service for Etoll - the branch of ServiceNSW that handles the government-controlled toll roads such as the Harbour Bridge and Tunnel. The whole situation was a complete shitfight, even over 5 years ago when I was there. I can't imagine it's improved much based on what I've seen since, and what you've described in this video.
What's with the music? Feel like I'm on hold to Centrelink 😢
I think we have to be realistic that we cannot afford alternative public transit solutions while people buy large homes on the urban fringe - sorry, but it makes no sense to subsidise 50km underground train trips from McMansions to Mascot. If people want rural living, they should expect rural services.
People need to accept either greater (but still moderate) density, or sprawl and congestion. Urban freeways do not work; public transport to far-flung low-rise pretend manor houses also does not work.
No politician appears willing to acknowledge this reality (except maybe Rob Stokes, and he’s leaving soon…).
Public transport to far-flung low-rise pretend manor houses can work (indeed, the late Paul Mees noted that a decent rail system could work with population densities as low as 13 per hectare).
The problem is that a bowl of spaghetti after a one-year old has flung it about looks tidier than the Sydney bus network and the Sydney train network has issues going back decades. Fix up the fundamentals and then you might find things starting to work.
@@jodij2366 it can work physically but it really doesn't make any sense economically - to clarify, the problem I'm arguing is the lack of density that makes it a vast expensive tunneling exercise just to put in the infrastructure for ten suburbs (one that gets knocked back, more often than not). Metros become far easier to fund/build if they can serve two or three times as many people.
Railway stations to people living in big homes far away amounts to an incredible subsidy per user and a poor urban experience.
A hell of a lot of suburbs closer to employment centres are completely car-dependent due to the lack of trains - these should be fixed first & densified, imo
if people want rural living. they should actually move to the regions and outside of sydney. Decentralise the state, move to the regions for that feel. Sydney must build up and not out. Hate the NIMBYs and politicians who don't understand it
Found this channel through the metro proposal video, loving all you stuff!
Myself personally i avoid toll roads as much as possible due to how unnecessarily high the cost is.
I used the M7 from Jedda Rd Prestons to Wallgrove Rd Horsley Park and it cost $6. Then they sent me a bill via mail because I didn’t have a tag, the total bill cost me $16 “ admin fee “ just to send a piece of paper to advise me that I had a bill?
Are you saying that number plate recognition is now charged?
@@grahameroberts8109 if the government owned the motorways it would be much cheaper ....
Great video Sharath very well researched. Well done!
Thanks to the liberal party transurban has become unstoppable. Hopefully the government stands up to them and stops tolls
NSW no matter Liberals or Labor, knows what roads are profitable so both Parties are so reluctant to pay for the construction costs. Let the private companies to bid for BOT contracts or else NSW may need to increase stamp duty, REGO & etc to achieve Balance Budget.
Syd Harbour Tunnel was transferred to public ownership of NSW in 2022 & both Parties still love the toll.
When I worked on the M4 tunnel project, We were told that once it’s all finished that they will start work on Parramatta Rd and it will basically force people to use the tunnels.
Hi Sharath, again great video! My only critique would be if you could use some examples of south western Sydney for comparison. Understand that you’re from north west so more familiar with that part of Sydney, but I think it would make the comparison more mind boggling on how bad south west is with public transports. At least north west has the metro and M2 & M4 aren’t that far apart so locals can choose. Then there’s m7 and northconnex. And now you’re going to get the new Metro from Parra to city and St Mary’s to aerotropolis. Try catching T2 or T3 from Liverpool to Wynyard- 55-58mins and that’s express. Compare to 20mins Parra or 30mins Blacktown. Even Campbelltown gets to the city in 45mins and it’s an extra 20km further from the city than Liverpool. There’s only one motorway- M5 and that’s quick becoming the most traffic jam road in Aus (fortunately it’s the only motorway with the cash back scheme). People living around the Fairfield LGA would have to drive 15-20mins in the morning just to get onto the M4 or M5 with only one train line as an alternative - and the frequency is 10-15mins during peak hour vs every 4mins on the western line. So public transports in the south west is probably 3 times worst than North West.
Cross City tunnel is dysfunctional. We should be trying to keep traffic out of CBD. Therefore cross city tunnel should be free and there should be a congestion charge to travel on surface streets through the city.
Great video. PPP is basically borderline corruption or grey gifts. Governments have little benefit for doing so other than profits going to private hands to reward them later.
Governments are meant to carry Infrastructure debts. They can still have a transparent bidding for lowest building costs.
People really need to pushback harder to get government control only, once its paid its free. The contracts signed make sure the public get screwed should anything happen. Its a private cash-cow that didnt need to happen
I don't regret selling my last car years ago. When I need a car for a specific reason I just rent it for that occasion and it saves me lots
Nice video! Amazing to think Sydney with a small population by world standards is the most tolled city on Earth! It really started when this government came in as there was an influx of new projects and the private company took every cent possible. When compared to other Australian cities which offer discounts and time of day tolling, the tolling system here is quite unfair.
I remember when the M4 was built and would be toll free after paid for, which it was for a very short time. Also the Harbour Bridge was supposed to be toll free now and was for a short time until the inbound toll was reintroduced. If Transurban own the whole lot, surely they can simplify the pricing structure to encourage more use. One question though, will we have to pay Transurban forever?
@@seanworkman431 Most of the toll roads expire after 20-30 years. Then the idea is its given back to the government, and tolls no longer exist.
@@tubester4567 both the Harbour Bridge and the M4 were paid for and toll free for a short time but then the tolls were reintroduced, to help pay for other roads we were told. There was such a fuss about the Harbour Bridge that they made the toll one way, so only inbound vehicle pay the toll. For a very short period they were both toll free.
"by world standards"
Please stop using that BS, half the world is a poverty riddled shithole. Compared to world standards we live like kings.
No toll roads in Adelaide at all. Never paid a toll in Melbourne or Brisbane. Tolls are a nsw thing.
I've just found your channel - great analysis. The PPP model for infrastructure has failed everywhere. It is also an invitation to corruption. Transurban pay shareholders $1.75 billion a year plus other interest. Think where we could be if that cash went into public transport. Every new road attracts more traffic on the system. More cash for Transurban and more jams on our local streets.
More decentralization outside of Sydney is the solution. Central Coast, Newcastle and Wollongong should be given the chance to grow. Sydney gets everything because the government are in a pissing competition with Melbourne.
Most of the population of NSW lives in Sydney. Of course government is going to pander to that. However there is still a significant population outside Sydney (about 3 million). They shouldn't ignore it
@@XaviRonaldo0 I agree. My point is that more cities in NSW deserve to flourish with opportunities. Not just Sydney.
@@Peter-ev2kr I'm sure that will come with time. A lot of Australians are moving out of the cities. We just aren't used to being so crowded like most immigrants are. Leave the major cities to the immigrants I say
Part of the problem is that the government makes deals with these monsters to filter traffic onto these toll roads. They change traffic conditions on existing roads to either force you onto the tolls or at the very least make the free roads almost unusable. While I understand the northconnex mandate for trucks as it's actually an interstate route there's another one that they're likely to mandate. The M5 tunnel instead of Stoney Creek Rd. Only trucks allowed to use SC Rd will be DG carrying trucks.
Hey Sarath, you hit on nail, mate.😢 You voiced my words and feeling, I was waiting to express somehow for long time. Good on you!
I have been paying over $22 per day for commuting to & fro work. And cost me nearly $6000 per year because I have no choice.
Government is acting like blood sucking parasite! I remember those days when 1st phase of Westconnex started from parramatta to Strathfield, upgrading M4.
The first billboard I saw suggesting around $450 million for the project and then started rise up in few weeks to almost 3/4 of the billion. And one day it completely disappeared after some amount $800 millions or over. That was to me, of course annoying, and also to show how incapable and lossy project management work structure they have got. No wonder, why they have to be parasitic!
Hi Sharath, thanks for an excellent video. I have just recently added your channel to my Featured Videos. I used to live in Sydney until moving to Melbourne in 1981 and it seems that Sydney has changed enormously since then. we have enough motorways down here. I really had no idea of the toll road situation up there. Just thinking, maybe the government should tax Transurban rather than the general public. Hmm!! I have just checked up the owner of Melbourne's toll roads and...you guessed it, Transurban!!!. This lot seem to have a huge monopoly all over. Anyway, all the very best. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
I love your videos. Smart, well produced, regular reminders of why I left that hell hole.
God that city and its government are just the worst
I moved out of Sydney in 2021.
I have lived there for 14 years, but I could see that all the Sydney metro areas get more and more unbearable to live. The cost of housing, congestion, frequent transportation problems, crowds...etc. I just had enough of Sydney.
Let's be honest, guys!
Life is just shit for many people in Sydney!
A very interesting video. One point you didn't mention was Labor's apparent disinterest in building infrastructure. I don't think it can be denied that the LNP has built more road, rail, metro and light rail projects in the last decade or so than were done in the previous 30 years under either party. The only transport infrastructure news I've heard regarding Labor is cancelling Beachlink and possibly Bankstown Metro (although I wouldn't disagree with the latter. Plenty more deserving areas given they've already got a perfectly functional heavy rail). I want to vote for a party that builds, not cancels, and still waiting for Mr Minns to announce anything on this.
Not defending Labor, but most of the infrastructure was financed by selling the electricity system, which will be a huge mess in 5-10 years time, requiring the government to get back in.
Beachlink was cancelled due to the residents of Bondi protesting. Dumb. The M5 East was built by Labor for $800m toll-free. Now the LNP slapped an $8 toll on the M5 east!
Does it need to be spelled out to you how the Liberals afford their spending? Give Labor a term to sort the finances out and they’ll deliver just as much infrastructure, and maybe one or two on time or within budget which would be a change! It was a Labor government (Federal yes) after all that laid the blueprint for infrastructure projects growing the economy.
You might want to google Bob Carr. His government delivered a fair bit of infrastructure.
On the CCT I have a semi regular run from Smithfield-Darlinghurst/Wollomolloo/French's Forest. It only takes on average 7 minutes to drive across Bathurst St/Elizabeth St and down Oxford St to get to the loading docks of St Vincent's Hospital. If I used the CCT I would still have to circumnavigate Rushcutters Bay and make my way to the docks. It might even take more time going that way.
Imagine if the toll subsidies were spent on public transport, giving people a real choice!
Well I am pretty sure public transport is substidised by the government. Plus driving is a lot more expensive when you factor in cost of running a car, fuel, rego, tolls, parking, fines etc.
Another incredible video mate. I’m interested to hear your opinion on the new toll road proposed to western Sydney airport
The gross shity funnel going bust should have been a chance for the state govt to buy it cheap and pocket the profits... if they'd paid almost nothing they could have had a lower toll and still made a profit. But that would have privatised the losses and socialised the profits, and we can't ever do that.
Amazing work. Thank you for this.
May I please ask, with your fantasy Sydney metro maps, did you create them yourself? You have such a talent for map making. You're so young and they are so impressive. In addition, you're incredibly knowledgeable on transport issues. You really have a gift, mate. I sincerely hope you end up in government one day (albeit, maybe not the NSW gov, considering the corruption) and make Australia a better place for all of us. I can see that you have a big future ahead of you. Much respect from this 30-something year old bloke in Perth, WA. (PS. We have no tolls roads here in WA. I think we have something of a different mentality to people in the Eastern States. We didn't go through the huge privatisation drives that many eastern states did and people here are fiercely protective of utilities and infrastructure remaining in the Government's hands. Some people may think we're a bit backwards at times but most Western Australians believe that infrastructure should not be about profit over service delivery.) (PPS. Holy moly you've got Michael West in your video. You CLEARLY understand what you're talking about!)
Great content as usual. Keep up the good work
Mate, your videos are super informative and interesting. May I have one suggestion, when you do voice over recording, could you make the sound of you breathing in less loud? It could be fixed in post production. That would make the audio more seamless to listen to.
Sydney should trial complete removal of tolls for a year and measure the effects. Companies affected can have their costs covered to last year's financials plus 10%.
coming fron the hills area,
I absolutley loathe the prices and I can't justifiying paying nearly $20 jus to save like 10 mins -_-
ps. How do I become friends with "Rowan" ?! hahaa
Thank you for your video presentation. Please do more. I fully support a radical reform of urban land use and transportation planning.
The clem 7 tunnel in Brisbane also failed in a similar way to the cross-city tunnel in Sydney. At least they're was a little bit of success with the opening of the Airportlink and Legacy way tunnels, but even they still didn't quite meet their predicted usage levels.
Clem 7 usage was way below what was predicted. About 61 k vpd ( vehicles per day ) were expected to use it, but only 24 k did use it.
@@ActiveAussie2024 because they realised most of the traffic on the roads leading into the city was in fact not traffic trying to bypass the inner city, but instead it was because everyone was trying to get into the City. And the tolls encouraged even more people not to use the clem 7
Thank you for the great research and impressive presentation. I attempt to avoid tolls whenever I can but sometimes I just just can't avoid it.