Feature subscriptions for test equipment, cars, and God knows what else as time goes on. They run out when you really need them. The gift that keeps on giving.
I expect that soon shitty companies like Boeing will introduce a fee for inserting bolts holding doors. And another fee for performing some quality control before delivery.
Yes you are right - the paid for licenses and subscriptions - too bad that they just don't turn them on - since it is already in the hardware that we buy.
Thanks for sharing this video Eddie. As usual, I like it. I feel sorry for all your effort which went kinda "down the drain" thanks to Uni-T not sending you a properly permanently licensed device. What a pity Uni-T! However, you dealt very well with the topic and still uploaded your video. Kudos for that. Makes the channel even more authentic and you even more likeable. And there is always something to learn in your stuff. I appreciate your SA series of videos. very much.
It seems like Rigol secretly loves the fact that their scopes are hackable. The mso5000 series is a perfect example. By the 70 megahertz two-channel unit and you can easily upgrade it to the 300 megahertz 4 channel, with two channel output function generator. I can't imagine how many of the 5072 units they have sold because of this
@@MrMersh-ts7jl I did exactly that, but initially purchased the 4 channel 70 MHz version of Rigol MSO5000. However, now I have a 500 MHz scope fully fledged. It still works.
@@markuskeller9734 this is my exact plan. I have a DS 1202 that has been great but I've definitely outgrown it. So I need to sell it off and sell off my r&s CMU to get either a PicoScope for the MSO 5072 and help it become more. If you don't mind me asking, how is the FFT on the mso5000 for say audio spectrum analysis?
Some audiophiles say that power line filters like these with common mode and diff mode chokes limit the dynamics of the music, and the ferrite in the chokes cores impart a glassy hard sound to the music. Although there is no science to prove this. Thanks for making this video with the analyzer Eddie.
Thanks for bringing this up! The filters in the power supply have no impact on the dynamics. The people who say this - you can believe at that point - that they know nothing about how power is processed. They may know the buzz words and some tech talk - but they have no actual understanding. If this were true - they would show measurements to show how it does effect the music. I have a series of rants on power cord stuff that talks about various things, but I have started a series to show how the power is processed at each circuit block to show how ridiculous statements like this are. Here's a video that you might like: ua-cam.com/video/iMtb6769Gwc/v-deo.htmlsi=97H_JQP_iRE21PPH
I have used a wideband noise generator and a spectrum analyzer to test filters. You can see the curve of the filter this way with out a tracking generator.
Yes, a decent Spectrum Analyzer is a great toy (and essential tool). Coupled with some near-field probes, a DIY LISN and a metal cake box you can do a lot of EMI pre-compliance tests, or looking at problem spots where you failed EMI. For far-filed tests, you can also build your own antennas, if you characterize them. I knew the guys at the local EMI-test lab quite well, so one day, when I had to do a single EMI-test for a customer, I sneaked some additional time in just to characterize my antennas. We were lucky to have a shielded room at our R&D labs, so with all the pre-compliancy tests, we were pretty assured that equipment will pass first time at the EMI labs. Quite a lot can be done with EMI-compliancy tests with DIY stuff and a spectrum Analyzer. Biggest hurdle is with the pulse-generators for immunity-tests as it involves high-voltage and large capacitors. Looking forward to the rest of your videos.
Of course, using a spectrum analyzer correctly is a LOT more involved than using an oscilloscope. R&S, Tektronix and Keysight have great courses and app notes and youtube videos on usage of Spectrum Analyzers.
Last Christmas I purchased three different metal boxes of Scottish shortbreads for testing electronic circuits. Shortbreads themselves were a nice bonus.
Thanks for this great feedback!! Yes, there is some great info out there - which I'll share in a video to come - for those that might want to delve deeper into this 'huge' field;)
When the electron rams into a O2 molecule in the copper wire running at near the speed of light, it triggers a harsh vibration that couples with the electrons in the brain of some audiophiles which triggers a rant. This also causes some attenuation and delays for the electrons at various frequencies so they don't show up at the speaker at the proper time distorting the music to the point of making it sound like an orchestra tuning up.
That expired feature license highlights exactly why I mostly use a tricked-out vintage Tektronix 2712 instead of a new unit. True enough that there are some things which I can't achieve with the 2712 but for those occasions I do have a newer 3Ghz digital analyzer to use.
Thanks for your feedback! Yes the 2712 came with options that had to be purchased as well - including the tracking generator. I don't think you had the option in those days of buying and adding features down the road by buying the license. So you had to commit and spend the money up front. The license expired on me because they were just turned on for the time of my reviews. This Uni-T item does come with a lot of features natively and has a high resolution bandwidth.
Although not directly the subject of the video a friend was at a retail outlet here in the UK where a manufacturer of snake-oil video cables was showing off their product. To their embarrassment my friend (a TV broadcast engineer) brought up the engineering menus on the 2 monitors, surprise surprise they were set differently, when set the same as each other the pictures were identical. As for using one leg of a common mode choke as a differential mode filter in a DC circuit, any guidance about saturation etc?
@@KissAnalog yes, thank you. It reminds me of a guitar playing friend who had replaced a small value capacitor in his guitar for a so called "bumble bee" type. He was extolling the virtues of the new sound, I asked him "was the new capacitor the same value as the one it replaced" .. awkward pause, it was a factor of 10 different... at that stage you know it is not worth going into ESR and piezo-electric effects etc etc
Great video. I know if i had that spectrum and lost over half of the functions, i would send it back lol... especially because of the cost. very disappointing.
Hi. Tad confused, It _looks_ like you are using a 50R enviroment for a low-Z (non-50R) mains filter network. Essentially you should have a 50R - Low Z driver and then a post-filter representative load and buffer back to 50R. Even a passive impedance matching network (attenuator) and normalise. If you PK-hold, if you have it, and single sweep, should show the curve, Did this come with a SOLT kit ? (Short, Open, Load, and Through).
Yes you are correct of course;) I wanted to make this short so I didn't want to get into that. I did mention - quickly - that this was for small signal;) Thanks for your feedback!
I'm puzzled by 2 things on the video. First, does Uni-T have annual subscription charges for the features on their test equipment. If so, that is terrible. Second, could a noise generator be used instead of a sweep generator. Easily purchased from several Chinese vendors for a low price and no subscription requirements. It seems that years ago when I worked for a living that one of the manufacturers started requiring an annual subscription for their product. As soon as we could, we got rid of that equipment and went over to another manufacturer. That was a long time ago!
Great questions! No, it is a one time purchase;) There are different options, so you don't have to buy all of them for a fortune. You can pick and choose. I really detest subscription services. Yes, you can use a noise generator. I was in a lab years ago - and I didn't have a tracking generator - but I did have a nice noise generator. Today this all costs so much less;)
I'm on board anything to reproduce audio signal at amplified level without introducing noise and/or altering signal as much as possible. BTW I am subscribed and love when I get your notifications, the videos are awesome. When I can I'm hoping to join or super thanks or PayPal just to keep channel going. 👍
Dang! If you lived closer, I'd bring over my Siglent SA for you to use. It's too bad the loaner wasn't fully licensed. Maybe that's how they ensure their loaners come back?
Eddie, you could use the Analog Discovery II with its AWG and SA and made the measurement from 100 Hz to 50 MHz. This would have given the information you were trying to present. LF analyzers are harder to come by. Also, this demonstrates why you should not use loaner equipment for the demonstration. I learned that one the hard way in HAM radio. Danny KI6VBC
Thanks - and you are right;) I've done a few videos showing how to do this with a scope - here's an early one;) ua-cam.com/video/nrPOcAHeuf0/v-deo.htmlsi=7cpnG34wbTXEwCN8
Hi. I would like to see some real world troubleshooting using the spectrum analyzer. I know the cut-corners VFD AC motor drives can create dirty hormonic electricity if the inductors and capacitor filters are not used per application. Things like spikes due to voltage wave reflection. 😎 Anyway, a most interesting Filter Test video. Thank you very much. PS. There is no paypal button? 🐾 Thanks.
I am, building a large home CNC machine power supply. HV if I can. A pair of 240v donuts, 500vA total. Taps at 24 and 48v. Going through a pair of matched Mitsu rect. to then supplant with the caps for the DC output.... in series for as much voltage I can. In leui of a SMPS, which many tell us to advoid for the weaknesses in capability when talking CNC machinery. So. Its almost there... and testing with the thermister and fuse inline.. I went and got a CORCOM 6ET7. Suits my needs. In the hoe cnc world, there are a ton of problems with the low level signals and the high current moving assemblies. Shareware and cheaper, clone boards have endless problems with this. This is built around in systems you pay >250$ for. Yet still abounds. This is helping me alot because I just got a THS720p Double Isolated for analysis. 25 years old. It was a Sainsmart, UTI, FRNSI, or a little HANTEK, or the junkyard THS. For about the same price. Choose your poison. I cannot afford your Micsig. No Rigol or Agilent or Keithliey or real stuff for I dont want to hurt it. However, I think I got a chance. This old scope works great. I will be doing EXACTLY as you taught us here in the next month, and have been wondering about the best way of doing it.. being an untrained hobbyist. It will be fast enough. I hope. to see any problems and test the Corcom. Bidden makes great HV pot testers. I have even thought about those machines and would like to see more of the modern eq. of that... and other things like Meggers available nowadays.
Maybe the analyser detected too much oxygen in your copper wire leads and cancelled all the licenses in pure audiophilic disgust. You were warned weren't you. 😜
Thanks John! I'll have to put the story together in a future video. In short - you can't hear RF;) Does any of the electronics care? The RF from the input can not get to the amplifier boards - IMHO.
That spectrum analyser is useless for audio work so why were you talking 60Hz and stuff ED ? that instrument can draw a graph of the filters you don't spend that sort of money and point at a bloody tone whizzing across the screen and say "look it wiggles around there" not sure your target audience are interested in 50 MHz's anyhow I get the feeling there Audio guy's. UNI -T just sent loads of kit to Paul at learnelectronics as well!! like 6 instruments including a spectrum analyser which has no clue about, so I wonder what UNI-T are upto.....cheers
Thanks for your feedback! I had a different video planned and had to come up with something quick after the video I had planned fell apart. But I think this shows how to use the spectrum to look at a filter at a high level. To properly power test this EMI filter - I needed to run the signal through an amp - but didn't have it handy and it complicates the video. I was thinking about doing a follow up to discuss this (50 ohm vs low impedance) but I don't know if I have time. I can do this lower freq stuff with my Omicron and/or picoscope. I did want to sniff the power supply of a power supply to show how it can be used for that. I was thinking how to run a test for the audiophiles who think a power cable can filter RF...These tests take some time to setup... Uni-T sent me a stack of things too, but not the really nice ARB that they sent him;) Also he got an SA and I have to return mine:( I might be one of the few UA-cam guys that has used one on the job in any meaningful way. I just solved some EMI issues using this SA;)
Feature subscriptions for test equipment, cars, and God knows what else as time goes on. They run out when you really need them. The gift that keeps on giving.
I expect that soon shitty companies like Boeing will introduce a fee for inserting bolts holding doors. And another fee for performing some quality control before delivery.
It’s so nice to see you back and making great comments
Yes you are right - the paid for licenses and subscriptions - too bad that they just don't turn them on - since it is already in the hardware that we buy.
Thanks for sharing this video Eddie. As usual, I like it. I feel sorry for all your effort which went kinda "down the drain" thanks to Uni-T not sending you a properly permanently licensed device. What a pity Uni-T! However, you dealt very well with the topic and still uploaded your video. Kudos for that. Makes the channel even more authentic and you even more likeable. And there is always something to learn in your stuff. I appreciate your SA series of videos. very much.
Thanks so much! Uni-T did send me a care package/s - so we will see some new equipment very soon;)
It seems like Rigol secretly loves the fact that their scopes are hackable. The mso5000 series is a perfect example. By the 70 megahertz two-channel unit and you can easily upgrade it to the 300 megahertz 4 channel, with two channel output function generator. I can't imagine how many of the 5072 units they have sold because of this
@@MrMersh-ts7jl I did exactly that, but initially purchased the 4 channel 70 MHz version of Rigol MSO5000. However, now I have a 500 MHz scope fully fledged. It still works.
@@markuskeller9734 this is my exact plan. I have a DS 1202 that has been great but I've definitely outgrown it. So I need to sell it off and sell off my r&s CMU to get either a PicoScope for the MSO 5072 and help it become more.
If you don't mind me asking, how is the FFT on the mso5000 for say audio spectrum analysis?
Some audiophiles say that power line filters like these with common mode and diff mode chokes limit the dynamics of the music, and the ferrite in the chokes cores impart a glassy hard sound to the music. Although there is no science to prove this. Thanks for making this video with the analyzer Eddie.
Thanks for bringing this up! The filters in the power supply have no impact on the dynamics. The people who say this - you can believe at that point - that they know nothing about how power is processed. They may know the buzz words and some tech talk - but they have no actual understanding. If this were true - they would show measurements to show how it does effect the music. I have a series of rants on power cord stuff that talks about various things, but I have started a series to show how the power is processed at each circuit block to show how ridiculous statements like this are. Here's a video that you might like: ua-cam.com/video/iMtb6769Gwc/v-deo.htmlsi=97H_JQP_iRE21PPH
Hi Eddie, thanks so much for sharing this video.🙏🏼
Thank you!
I have used a wideband noise generator and a spectrum analyzer to test filters. You can see the curve of the filter this way with out a tracking generator.
Yes - that is right! I have that nice noise generator that I have used to do this. I was going to use it but the power switch broke:(
Eddie have you used the TinyVNA or NanaSA? These are small handheld non frills VNA's and spectrum analysers which typically cost under $100.
Thanks - Yes! I do have a TinyVNA and I have used it some but need to do a video on this;)
Yes, a decent Spectrum Analyzer is a great toy (and essential tool). Coupled with some near-field probes, a DIY LISN and a metal cake box you can do a lot of EMI pre-compliance tests, or looking at problem spots where you failed EMI. For far-filed tests, you can also build your own antennas, if you characterize them. I knew the guys at the local EMI-test lab quite well, so one day, when I had to do a single EMI-test for a customer, I sneaked some additional time in just to characterize my antennas. We were lucky to have a shielded room at our R&D labs, so with all the pre-compliancy tests, we were pretty assured that equipment will pass first time at the EMI labs. Quite a lot can be done with EMI-compliancy tests with DIY stuff and a spectrum Analyzer. Biggest hurdle is with the pulse-generators for immunity-tests as it involves high-voltage and large capacitors. Looking forward to the rest of your videos.
Of course, using a spectrum analyzer correctly is a LOT more involved than using an oscilloscope. R&S, Tektronix and Keysight have great courses and app notes and youtube videos on usage of Spectrum Analyzers.
I just listen to the AM radio, bud. Lol. Thanks for the advice. @@Hellhound604
Last Christmas I purchased three different metal boxes of Scottish shortbreads for testing electronic circuits. Shortbreads themselves were a nice bonus.
Thanks for this great feedback!! Yes, there is some great info out there - which I'll share in a video to come - for those that might want to delve deeper into this 'huge' field;)
When the electron rams into a O2 molecule in the copper wire running at near the speed of light, it triggers a harsh vibration that couples with the electrons in the brain of some audiophiles which triggers a rant. This also causes some attenuation and delays for the electrons at various frequencies so they don't show up at the speaker at the proper time distorting the music to the point of making it sound like an orchestra tuning up.
LOL - I love it;)
😂 Spot on 😂
That expired feature license highlights exactly why I mostly use a tricked-out vintage Tektronix 2712 instead of a new unit. True enough that there are some things which I can't achieve with the 2712 but for those occasions I do have a newer 3Ghz digital analyzer to use.
Thanks for your feedback! Yes the 2712 came with options that had to be purchased as well - including the tracking generator. I don't think you had the option in those days of buying and adding features down the road by buying the license. So you had to commit and spend the money up front.
The license expired on me because they were just turned on for the time of my reviews.
This Uni-T item does come with a lot of features natively and has a high resolution bandwidth.
Great 👍
Thank you 👍
Although not directly the subject of the video a friend was at a retail outlet here in the UK where a manufacturer of snake-oil video cables was showing off their product. To their embarrassment my friend (a TV broadcast engineer) brought up the engineering menus on the 2 monitors, surprise surprise they were set differently, when set the same as each other the pictures were identical.
As for using one leg of a common mode choke as a differential mode filter in a DC circuit, any guidance about saturation etc?
I love this story! Thank you! Have you seen this video on power cables? ua-cam.com/video/Q9Y3r8CqXlc/v-deo.html
@@KissAnalog yes, thank you. It reminds me of a guitar playing friend who had replaced a small value capacitor in his guitar for a so called "bumble bee" type. He was extolling the virtues of the new sound, I asked him "was the new capacitor the same value as the one it replaced" .. awkward pause, it was a factor of 10 different... at that stage you know it is not worth going into ESR and piezo-electric effects etc etc
LOL love it;)
Great video. I know if i had that spectrum and lost over half of the functions, i would send it back lol... especially because of the cost. very disappointing.
Thanks - but I guess I can't complain as it is just a loaner;)
Hi. Tad confused, It _looks_ like you are using a 50R enviroment for a low-Z (non-50R) mains filter network. Essentially you should have a 50R - Low Z driver and then a post-filter representative load and buffer back to 50R. Even a passive impedance matching network (attenuator) and normalise. If you PK-hold, if you have it, and single sweep, should show the curve, Did this come with a SOLT kit ? (Short, Open, Load, and Through).
Yes you are correct of course;) I wanted to make this short so I didn't want to get into that. I did mention - quickly - that this was for small signal;) Thanks for your feedback!
As far i know there is no possibility to activate vector signal analysis. Do you know why unit-t put that option information?
Thanks for the great question! I have a few questions for them - so I'll see what I can find out.
I'm puzzled by 2 things on the video. First, does Uni-T have annual subscription charges for the features on their test equipment. If so, that is terrible. Second, could a noise generator be used instead of a sweep generator. Easily purchased from several Chinese vendors for a low price and no subscription requirements.
It seems that years ago when I worked for a living that one of the manufacturers started requiring an annual subscription for their product. As soon as we could, we got rid of that equipment and went over to another manufacturer. That was a long time ago!
Great questions! No, it is a one time purchase;) There are different options, so you don't have to buy all of them for a fortune. You can pick and choose. I really detest subscription services. Yes, you can use a noise generator. I was in a lab years ago - and I didn't have a tracking generator - but I did have a nice noise generator. Today this all costs so much less;)
The shirt changes are working!
Thanks!!
I'm on board anything to reproduce audio signal at amplified level without introducing noise and/or altering signal as much as possible. BTW I am subscribed and love when I get your notifications, the videos are awesome. When I can I'm hoping to join or super thanks or PayPal just to keep channel going. 👍
Thanks so much! I appreciate you!
😘😘😘😘
Thanks!
Dang! If you lived closer, I'd bring over my Siglent SA for you to use. It's too bad the loaner wasn't fully licensed. Maybe that's how they ensure their loaners come back?
LOL - thank you!!!
Eddie, you could use the Analog Discovery II with its AWG and SA and made the measurement from 100 Hz to 50 MHz. This would have given the information you were trying to present. LF analyzers are harder to come by. Also, this demonstrates why you should not use loaner equipment for the demonstration. I learned that one the hard way in HAM radio. Danny KI6VBC
Thanks - and you are right;) I've done a few videos showing how to do this with a scope - here's an early one;) ua-cam.com/video/nrPOcAHeuf0/v-deo.htmlsi=7cpnG34wbTXEwCN8
Hi. I would like to see some real world troubleshooting using the spectrum analyzer. I know the cut-corners VFD AC motor drives can create dirty hormonic electricity if the inductors and capacitor filters are not used per application. Things like spikes due to voltage wave reflection. 😎 Anyway, a most interesting Filter Test video. Thank you very much.
PS. There is no paypal button? 🐾 Thanks.
Thanks for your feedback! I'll have to add Paypal;) Thanks for telling me!
lol you harbor knowledge... Few possess. OFC we sub.
I am, building a large home CNC machine power supply. HV if I can. A pair of 240v donuts, 500vA total. Taps at 24 and 48v. Going through a pair of matched Mitsu rect. to then supplant with the caps for the DC output.... in series for as much voltage I can. In leui of a SMPS, which many tell us to advoid for the weaknesses in capability when talking CNC machinery.
So. Its almost there... and testing with the thermister and fuse inline.. I went and got a CORCOM 6ET7. Suits my needs. In the hoe cnc world, there are a ton of problems with the low level signals and the high current moving assemblies. Shareware and cheaper, clone boards have endless problems with this. This is built around in systems you pay >250$ for. Yet still abounds.
This is helping me alot because I just got a THS720p Double Isolated for analysis. 25 years old. It was a Sainsmart, UTI, FRNSI, or a little HANTEK, or the junkyard THS. For about the same price. Choose your poison. I cannot afford your Micsig. No Rigol or Agilent or Keithliey or real stuff for I dont want to hurt it.
However, I think I got a chance. This old scope works great. I will be doing EXACTLY as you taught us here in the next month, and have been wondering about the best way of doing it.. being an untrained hobbyist.
It will be fast enough. I hope. to see any problems and test the Corcom.
Bidden makes great HV pot testers. I have even thought about those machines and would like to see more of the modern eq. of that... and other things like Meggers available nowadays.
Thanks so much! I appreciate you!
Ok now is more clear, the "B" model need license, I think that the "T" model has TG all inclusive... thanks
Yes, there are a number of licenses that you can include. I need to do another video soon.
Maybe the analyser detected too much oxygen in your copper wire leads and cancelled all the licenses in pure audiophilic disgust. You were warned weren't you. 😜
Man - I think you are on to something! ;)
Can't work out if you believe in RF contamination or not, Eddie, with respect to hi-fi matters.
Thanks John! I'll have to put the story together in a future video. In short - you can't hear RF;) Does any of the electronics care? The RF from the input can not get to the amplifier boards - IMHO.
That spectrum analyser is useless for audio work so why were you talking 60Hz and stuff ED ? that instrument can draw a graph of the filters you don't spend that sort of money and point at a bloody tone whizzing across the screen and say "look it wiggles around there" not sure your target audience are interested in 50 MHz's anyhow I get the feeling there Audio guy's. UNI -T just sent loads of kit to Paul at learnelectronics as well!! like 6 instruments including a spectrum analyser which has no clue about, so I wonder what UNI-T are upto.....cheers
Thanks for your feedback! I had a different video planned and had to come up with something quick after the video I had planned fell apart. But I think this shows how to use the spectrum to look at a filter at a high level. To properly power test this EMI filter - I needed to run the signal through an amp - but didn't have it handy and it complicates the video. I was thinking about doing a follow up to discuss this (50 ohm vs low impedance) but I don't know if I have time. I can do this lower freq stuff with my Omicron and/or picoscope. I did want to sniff the power supply of a power supply to show how it can be used for that. I was thinking how to run a test for the audiophiles who think a power cable can filter RF...These tests take some time to setup...
Uni-T sent me a stack of things too, but not the really nice ARB that they sent him;) Also he got an SA and I have to return mine:( I might be one of the few UA-cam guys that has used one on the job in any meaningful way. I just solved some EMI issues using this SA;)
Awesome get as much work out of it as you can Ed !! I look forward to more !Yes good to see a proper use case for this stuff@@KissAnalog