@@m4saurabh why? Deno does it its awsome. I want my tooling to be heavily opinionated so there is no disccussions about "break after function" "empty line before return" give me a preconfigured formater and linter and if someone like you wants special formatting just use prettier and eslint and fight with your config every update. And everyone can be happy
@@IronMaidzen you don't get it, the reason deno fmt, dprint, biome are still not able to replace prettier is because it support a wide range of languages, like does deno fmt work with svelte. So we should just have a single a set of frommatting and linting tools so it's easy to contribute and develop plugins. If everyone work on their tools the discussion would be which to use
@@m4saurabh deno fmt works with svelte.... and bun is opensource you can contribute to the formatter. I think in the opensource world it wil never happen that there is a single tool, sure there is a "goto" tool like prettier atm. but it will never be exclusive which i think is a good thing
@@IronMaidzen biome was made with the assumption of not supporting svelte and vue out of the box. And now they slowed down a bit to make a support for plugins, just to support these two :///
sysadmin & dba here we’ve never experienced postgres being slower than mysql when migrating customers - we’ve actually been able to achieve much better performance with postgres when properly tuned because of the heap architecture
I had to go through X to figure out what he's talking about, and its not "postgresql vs mysql performance" an issue with hash partitioning. Not something most people need to ever care about, but something that is apparently being worked on in the next release. But apparently Theo hates Postgres. It's prob not an issue if you're doing range partitioning. Never actually seen anyone use hash partitioning.
I'm happy that this was considered a minor update. People are just so used to semver being misused that they assume lots of new features means a major bump
This is the time of awesome dev tools. uv for python (which I am personally extremely impressed with), now bun for web dev, which I hope soon gets integrated with create Next app. Cant wait for more of these coming.
I get the skepticism, however Bun has adoption of almost every node API, excluding the v8 related ones for obvious reasons but these don’t matter for most projects anyway. There are some incompatibilities to be fixed however these are far and between nowadays. Point is, it is doing a pretty great job at holding that promise
Been there, Bun is strugling replacing your old nodejs project into bun project, for simple project... maybe, but for more complex project it is a migration nightmare. instead, you have to create a new poject using bun entirely.
@@deckyfx2188 not true i switched in 1.1 to bun at work, with two projects one Vue and Vue/nuxt project with over 300 components and it was 4 hours of work for fixes and some "hidden" small problems in the following weeks.
It's really cool! The only thing I wish Bun had was the ability to transpile TS to JJS while also generating .d.ts files, similar to how TSC handles it when building npm libraries for IDE auto-completion
19:56 Absolutely can relate to this post. So many times I stumble upon a random Repo that might have what I want, but no screenshots and a 15 step installation manual.
What's up with the postgres hate? I've always found it much more fully featured. That said SQL is not cool anymore as a query language. Piping syntax liie kusto query language are so much nicer to use.
Previously we were replacing libraries, than lib frameworks and now the runtimes. Next is what? Change the lang and write lang transpilers so any lang can be converted to js and run on browser?
How can a project start 2 years ago and be ahead of a project which is a decade old? Is tech debt such a big thing or bun team is just large or largely more funded compared to node?
I'm starting a new project in SvelteKit or Nuxt or Next which will be containerized and deployed on Kubernetes. It will need npm packages for a buch of things and also good crypto support for passeys. So what do I use today as a bundler and runtime?
true, Node is just what SvelteKit and Next are optimized for. Your best alternative bet might be Deno, but if you don't have any particular reason for any of it's benefits, then don't worry about it.
I like the concept of Elysia, but its developer experience has been clunky for me. No streaming, SSE requires extra code, and some other shenanigans. I migrated from Express to Hono instead and has been pretty happy about it.
Genuine question as someone who doesn't mess around much with JS, why are people okay with runtimes and libraries grafting in nonstandard features like `with {type:"xyz"}`, or even non-sourcefile imports in general? I also noticed that vite has its own special type of imports recently, which confuses me on a whole other level
The with { type: "xyz" } syntax you saw is based on a TC39 proposal called "Import Attributes" (previously known as "Import Assertions"). This proposal is still in stage 3 and is not an official JavaScript/TypeScript standard yet. It may also be ignored depending on the TypeScript compiler you are using.
Could be wrong the one advantage of separate components is not all your eggs in one basket. So if bun's "sql" for example is buggy and you've written your app in bun 1.2 ah bug say it worked in bun 1.1, oops so it seems you'll run into a huge headache...
@@johnmarston2474 So now you need to decide how much rework you need to do to replace other new stuff you used from latest version because you need to downgrade it all because of 1 bug... Yeah downgrading and staying with legacy versions, the greatest solution for bug problems.
A venture capital backed product is always going to get squeezed. They’re hooking you into their system, and then you’ll need to use your wallet to escape.
@ yes, the Bun cli tool is open source, and so is the docker daemon. But everything surrounding the Docker daemon (e.g Docker Desktop) is now bound to incredibly locked-down license agreements, and the Docker company is very letigious. Bun is VC backed, just like Docker, which means they WILL get their investments back, no matter what it takes. Bun is currently in the phase of roping everyone in and making it so their tools become dependencies in your companies production pipeline.
@@hellotherenameishere okay but why didnt nodejs do that, i thought bun would be a "drop-in open source replacement for node js". not to be rude or anything, i am just curious
@ NodeJS is owned by the OpenJS / The Linux Foundation which works to maintain open governance of the software. NodeJS was also created to solve a whole brand new problem. Bun, however, literally only exists to fork the NodeJS ecosystem by filling in gaps and creating its own features that it controls. Looping back to the fact that Bun is backed by a VC company, that usually only means one thing: Oven, the company behind Bun, will most likely start encapsulating the Bun ecosystem with means of getting money out of it. See Docker.
@@dgdev69 I guess deno´s aggressive marketing as nodejs replacement is not cool as well Me: whats your problem? You: Bun didnt have .npmrc support!! Me: But now it has, so whats your problem? You: BUT BUN DIDNT HAVE IT IN V1!!! :((( the fuck man
@@lessko9 chill - his point being, that bun marketed V1 as fully fledged, drop-in node replacement while it was still missing (and still is) translation layers and features that truly make it a node drop-in replacement. He used npmrc as an example, back then. Also he didn't mention anything about deno, but I will. Bun is (for many usecases) not a drop-in replacement to node right now. If we replace node with bun in just the deployment engine, not for building, lot's of things will and do break. Deno on the other hand works just fine when directly dropping it in as a replacement as of v2. Bun is cool, and for many things superior to a lot of alternatives, but it cannot do everything yet. Also the amount of "woops haha regression fix" versions have moved us to, for the moment, not even consider it in dev environments, let alone prod.
it's not open-source. there's not a actual MIT LICENSE file in the repo. They can close it whenever they want- ONly yhe Bun binaries they provide is open-source .
@@olivierk3z420 U don't need anything else. Like devs in companies knows far more than crap SQL. People using NoSQL db's are the one complains why they don't use SQL...
Now i wait for "bun fmt" and "bun lint", so i can start projects without any dependencies and just code
I don't think they should do this.
@@m4saurabh why? Deno does it its awsome. I want my tooling to be heavily opinionated so there is no disccussions about "break after function" "empty line before return" give me a preconfigured formater and linter and if someone like you wants special formatting just use prettier and eslint and fight with your config every update. And everyone can be happy
@@IronMaidzen you don't get it, the reason deno fmt, dprint, biome are still not able to replace prettier is because it support a wide range of languages, like does deno fmt work with svelte. So we should just have a single a set of frommatting and linting tools so it's easy to contribute and develop plugins. If everyone work on their tools the discussion would be which to use
@@m4saurabh deno fmt works with svelte.... and bun is opensource you can contribute to the formatter. I think in the opensource world it wil never happen that there is a single tool, sure there is a "goto" tool like prettier atm. but it will never be exclusive which i think is a good thing
@@IronMaidzen biome was made with the assumption of not supporting svelte and vue out of the box. And now they slowed down a bit to make a support for plugins, just to support these two :///
sysadmin & dba here
we’ve never experienced postgres being slower than mysql when migrating customers - we’ve actually been able to achieve much better performance with postgres when properly tuned because of the heap architecture
I had to go through X to figure out what he's talking about, and its not "postgresql vs mysql performance" an issue with hash partitioning. Not something most people need to ever care about, but something that is apparently being worked on in the next release. But apparently Theo hates Postgres.
It's prob not an issue if you're doing range partitioning. Never actually seen anyone use hash partitioning.
@@philliphaydon7017 what X ?
Postgres can be faster that MySQL when tuned for its use case well enough.
MySQL… just works.
Making Bun being able to create BUNdles is just the most reasonable thing to do.
uBUNtu ahh
The benchmark of a "hello world" is insane. Bun can handle 138,053 req/s and destroy all the competitors. Sarcasm
i like the way you say "uploaat-think", it's really satisfying. literally the only reason why i made my company use your product
I'm happy that this was considered a minor update. People are just so used to semver being misused that they assume lots of new features means a major bump
Bun is my GO-TO JS runtime. I haven't used Node in... I can't remember the last time I used Node.
This is the time of awesome dev tools. uv for python (which I am personally extremely impressed with), now bun for web dev, which I hope soon gets integrated with create Next app. Cant wait for more of these coming.
"Drop-in" node replacement. Reality is never that simple. I'll wait and see you guys adopting it for your own projects
Yeah same for me
I get the skepticism, however Bun has adoption of almost every node API, excluding the v8 related ones for obvious reasons but these don’t matter for most projects anyway. There are some incompatibilities to be fixed however these are far and between nowadays. Point is, it is doing a pretty great job at holding that promise
Been there,
Bun is strugling replacing your old nodejs project into bun project, for simple project... maybe, but for more complex project it is a migration nightmare.
instead, you have to create a new poject using bun entirely.
@@deckyfx2188 not true i switched in 1.1 to bun at work, with two projects one Vue and Vue/nuxt project with over 300 components and it was 4 hours of work for fixes and some "hidden" small problems in the following weeks.
@@deckyfx2188 Maybe when it came out, but Bun is almost perfect now.
It's really cool! The only thing I wish Bun had was the ability to transpile TS to JJS while also generating .d.ts files, similar to how TSC handles it when building npm libraries for IDE auto-completion
19:56 Absolutely can relate to this post. So many times I stumble upon a random Repo that might have what I want, but no screenshots and a 15 step installation manual.
I'm surprised but very glad that you are so positive towards Bun. It's very underrated, more people should try it
I understand why they focus on the most used libraries. But it feels like they are targeting a specific aws+react+tailwind type of devs.
i don't even have node and npm on my system anymore. i now use bun for all my projects
We are using bun in production since day 1.
18:53 those posts were exactly what i thought of when i read that part about the standalone executables 😆
bun build --compile is amazing for Tauri... allows me to run my bun backend in Tauri as a 'sidecar'. Pretty great
As an architect who has near zero time to develop - your content has been brilliant to keep on top of web dev/arch. Thank you!
i can’t live without bun’s websocket server now
Theo! Playing with Buns live on camera! Bold man.
Please enable caption Theo
Pls no, i cant switch to default in mobile
@@User-y6m2msorry, i mean caption. I'd already edit my comment
bun's a bundler *again* :)
imagine solving all the js issues and calling it 1.2 ...I think its fair to say that .3 will solve famine in Africa and .4 will cure cancer
What's up with the postgres hate? I've always found it much more fully featured. That said SQL is not cool anymore as a query language. Piping syntax liie kusto query language are so much nicer to use.
you bump into node-gyp also when working on anything more advanced, like stream deck integration or isolated-vm...
You either hate node-gyp, or you've never really USED node-gyp. There is no middle ground.
Deno.dlopen was life-changing.
const sdl3 = Deno.dlopen("sdl3.dll", function_bindings);
Why yes, I would like it to be that simple, thank you.
I don’t think static routes go through comptime.
Finally you guys have adopted Zen Browser 🔥
Previously we were replacing libraries, than lib frameworks and now the runtimes.
Next is what?
Change the lang and write lang transpilers so any lang can be converted to js and run on browser?
You should add a T-shirt to your shop with "This needs a diagram" on it. :)
Does anyone have benchmark on bun? I want to compare it with pnpm & vite
isnt adding the env variables like that a possible security flaw if configured wrong
How can a project start 2 years ago and be ahead of a project which is a decade old? Is tech debt such a big thing or bun team is just large or largely more funded compared to node?
Because of lessons learned.
You can take short cuts when you learn for mistakes made by those that made it and not do the same mistakes. Makes you get there 10x fast.
I tried the docs with the compile option… whilst it compiled ok it wouldn’t even run… I feel its a rushed release.
Why is uuid v7 controversal?
One thing is if you require a time sensitive id and v4 if you require a purely random id.
so like without electron and tauri i can just build desktop app with bun now
Yes, but no.
That compile step doesn’t set up a browser view for you. So you would need to pull in a system library to render the app.
@@bunkerkids1 so its for cli app only
Do not mess with postgres, be cool
i hate so much normies near developer products
standalone been there since 1.0
I'm starting a new project in SvelteKit or Nuxt or Next which will be containerized and deployed on Kubernetes. It will need npm packages for a buch of things and also good crypto support for passeys. So what do I use today as a bundler and runtime?
Node, it just works
true, Node is just what SvelteKit and Next are optimized for. Your best alternative bet might be Deno, but if you don't have any particular reason for any of it's benefits, then don't worry about it.
okay I'll admit it, I like the sponsored sections, one of the only channels I don't skip them
I don't see anything new about `bun outdated`. We had it in 1.1 and didn't we also have it in 1.0?
e Hidden Pattern behind all Financial Bubblese Hidden Pattern behind all Financial Bubbles
Genuine question, what's wrong with express/what are alternwtives. I wasn't really sure what else to use for a mobile app with react native expo
express is slow af. use hono or elysia
Can we use it with next and t3?
Is Tailwind broke because the very recent update to Tailwind v4?
Everytime someone says Express, I am wondering if I am the only one using Elysia.
I like the concept of Elysia, but its developer experience has been clunky for me. No streaming, SSE requires extra code, and some other shenanigans. I migrated from Express to Hono instead and has been pretty happy about it.
Holy shit I can compile ts code into an executable? Wild
Could for a while. Too bad the exe is gigantic
Postgres slower than mysql. 🤣
who is backing bun ?
rsbuild ftw!
Genuine question as someone who doesn't mess around much with JS, why are people okay with runtimes and libraries grafting in nonstandard features like `with {type:"xyz"}`, or even non-sourcefile imports in general? I also noticed that vite has its own special type of imports recently, which confuses me on a whole other level
The with { type: "xyz" } syntax you saw is based on a TC39 proposal called "Import Attributes" (previously known as "Import Assertions"). This proposal is still in stage 3 and is not an official JavaScript/TypeScript standard yet. It may also be ignored depending on the TypeScript compiler you are using.
As a normie, it's annoying when you find a tool for something that links to a github with no exe
Why is he so obsessed with Postgres being "slow"?
Maybe he want to drop T3-postgress 😂 - fastest postgress
Because he’s an idiot.
ohh, we all hate node-gyp 😆
Bun is everything =))
Which means is nothing
@@whoknows3679 yes/maybe but cannot be denied that Bun is good option beside Node.
Could be wrong the one advantage of separate components is not all your eggs in one basket. So if bun's "sql" for example is buggy and you've written your app in bun 1.2 ah bug say it worked in bun 1.1, oops so it seems you'll run into a huge headache...
You can just downgrade bun, lol
@@johnmarston2474 hopefully you don't depend on the s3 package of bun which works in v1.2 but not in v1.1 because the bug was fixed.
@@johnmarston2474 Not really as sql postgress is all baked into bun...
@@johnmarston2474 So now you need to decide how much rework you need to do to replace other new stuff you used from latest version because you need to downgrade it all because of 1 bug... Yeah downgrading and staying with legacy versions, the greatest solution for bug problems.
should check it out :)
bun is very fast comparing to npm
I don't know what to think of Bun. Should there be something that does it all, instead of having different tools for different purposes?
A venture capital backed product is always going to get squeezed. They’re hooking you into their system, and then you’ll need to use your wallet to escape.
@@hellotherenameishere bun is open source
@ yes, the Bun cli tool is open source, and so is the docker daemon. But everything surrounding the Docker daemon (e.g Docker Desktop) is now bound to incredibly locked-down license agreements, and the Docker company is very letigious.
Bun is VC backed, just like Docker, which means they WILL get their investments back, no matter what it takes.
Bun is currently in the phase of roping everyone in and making it so their tools become dependencies in your companies production pipeline.
@@hellotherenameishere okay but why didnt nodejs do that, i thought bun would be a "drop-in open source replacement for node js". not to be rude or anything, i am just curious
@ NodeJS is owned by the OpenJS / The Linux Foundation which works to maintain open governance of the software. NodeJS was also created to solve a whole brand new problem. Bun, however, literally only exists to fork the NodeJS ecosystem by filling in gaps and creating its own features that it controls. Looping back to the fact that Bun is backed by a VC company, that usually only means one thing: Oven, the company behind Bun, will most likely start encapsulating the Bun ecosystem with means of getting money out of it. See Docker.
Not gonna lie they should not market it as drop in replacement.
Bun needs more cooking the fact they did not even have npmrc at v1 is not cool.
wdym, they do have npmrc support nowadays, whats your problem?
@@lessko9 npmrc is a thing should be supported on v1 not v2 also aggressive marketting as drop in replacement is not cool.
@@dgdev69 I guess deno´s aggressive marketing as nodejs replacement is not cool as well
Me: whats your problem?
You: Bun didnt have .npmrc support!!
Me: But now it has, so whats your problem?
You: BUT BUN DIDNT HAVE IT IN V1!!! :(((
the fuck man
@@lessko9 chill - his point being, that bun marketed V1 as fully fledged, drop-in node replacement while it was still missing (and still is) translation layers and features that truly make it a node drop-in replacement. He used npmrc as an example, back then. Also he didn't mention anything about deno, but I will.
Bun is (for many usecases) not a drop-in replacement to node right now. If we replace node with bun in just the deployment engine, not for building, lot's of things will and do break.
Deno on the other hand works just fine when directly dropping it in as a replacement as of v2.
Bun is cool, and for many things superior to a lot of alternatives, but it cannot do everything yet. Also the amount of "woops haha regression fix" versions have moved us to, for the moment, not even consider it in dev environments, let alone prod.
lol the s3 speed difference would instantly deminish on larger files as it just needs a fraction longer to start - what a miserable comparison….
Express still works well.
it's not open-source. there's not a actual MIT LICENSE file in the repo. They can close it whenever they want- ONly yhe Bun binaries they provide is open-source .
wait....are you on zen browser now? Have you tried Deta Surf browser?
At this point node sucks
Very opiniated tool. Not interested at this level.
whats opinionated in bun ?
@@lessko9 S3, SQL embeded
@@olivierk3z420 you can use uploadthing and other sqlite packages if you want
@@olivierk3z420 U don't need anything else. Like devs in companies knows far more than crap SQL. People using NoSQL db's are the one complains why they don't use SQL...