Ableton Live as Master Control of Lighting, Lyrics, and Video
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2013
- Ableton Live as Master Control of Lighting, Lyrics, and Video.
Walk through of our setup for The Show. Ableton Live was our control center for ProPresenter machines, loops and click, and lighting cues. Very cool setup and very flexible.
Even though we mostly ran the show in a linear way at any time we could have changed tempos, repeated a section, or skipped ahead and all lighting, video, and lyric cues would have followed along without anyone noticing. That's the biggest difference between programming control with Ableton Live vs timecode. Timecode just isn't that flexible.
![Controlling Lights with Ableton: What’s the Best Approach? [Resource Guide]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oZ_9UF7r9Ic/mqdefault.jpg)
![Controlling Lights with Ableton: What’s the Best Approach? [Resource Guide]](/img/tr.png)
![GESAFFELSTEIN [Live - Olympia Paris - 30/01/2014 - HD]](/img/n.gif)
I find it ironic when people who make audio/visual videos have terrible audio (background fuzz and no mic) and poor lighting in a video.
Either way, the subject matter was great! Thank you! lol
+Random G Ha ha, yeah I know it's terrible. That noise is a 18k projector behind us, ha ha. It was a real impromptu thing we did right before doors opened one day.
No worries! Thank you for the video! Some useful information in there!
+Random G This is a tech vid not a music vid. stfu
Microphones are tech...
Hi Leslie, UA-cam wouldn't let me reply directly to your comment for some reason. I hate all these changes they have done.
Anyway, yes! It is totally possible to have all music and tech elements triggered from one machine. Either Ableton Live or a program like Qlab would work well. Depending how elaborate the setup it may take several machines working together.
In an ideal setup each machine only has one task. So one machine is running Ableton and sending audio and cues. Then another does lyrics, another video backgrounds, and another for lighting.
This way no machine is working too hard. It also means that if a machine goes down you just lose one piece and not everything. These don't have to be big desktop computers, a couple of laptops will work fine.
Hope that helps!
Thanks Rich for posting this and sharing the info. You guys ROCK!!!
I learned a ton on this. Thank you for making itl
Amazing stuff!!!! Great Job Will!!!! Can't wait for the next video
Brilliant stuff, Will. Great work!
Thank you for this video!!! Pure genius setup. Great job. I'm sure a lot of churches and tours needs this. It took us at least 5 people to do what you did on a tour I did lights and video for in 2006.
No problem, glad to help!
This was actually a useful video. Thanks
Thank you for posting, This is pretty sweet!
Tripp Yeager No problem Tripp! Hope it helps!
wow!! in my church we are so far of that job. keep going God Bless you!
This is absolutely AMAZING! Great work, I'd love to see/do a show with you guys :) I'd love to have this for my band, just have to invest in more stuff I guess ;)
Right now I'm only into the basic Ableton Live stuff, clicktracks and backing track samples, but controlling the lyrics and even the lights is awesome! Keep up the great work and I'll take you as the ultimate example :D Cheers from the Netherlands!
Rick Jansen Thanks Rick!
Excellent video!
I've been thinking about doing this instead of using a dedicated DMX controller. I have a couple of led-RGBs daisy chained together to a smal DMX controller.
What should I use to convert midi coming out of my PC into DMX commands? There must be a external hardware unit that does that.
Hi Jerry, I'll see if Will has a template. To control lighting it kinda depends on your lighting console as each console supports different MIDI Show Control Commands.
The easiest way to control ProPresenter now is by purchasing their MIDI control add-on. That lets you control changing slides, songs, and playlists all with simple MIDI notes.
Hope that helps!
Nice lighting rig.
Hi Rich,
Thanks a lot for the quick reply...wl look into it.
Harish
thank you
Rich,
We have been making a DVD in Adobe Premiere with a SMPTE time code track. The video is of someone doing all of the choreography for our Choir to watch on a back screen during our musical. The SMPTE then goes to Cakewalk Sonar to kick off the audio track for the musical. We also send that time code to our Martin M1 light board to run the light show. All is usually good...except for Sonar. We pray every time we start the DVD that sonar will work.
I'm thinking of using Ableton to start the audio and send the LTC code to a ProPresenter computer to start the choreography video and also to the Martin for the light show.
If we do this, will ProPresenter be frame accurate when it starts the choreography video? We do need frame accuracy.
Thanks!
this is awesome
Interesting application of Ableton & midi data!
having trouble with midi translator for using MSC. could use some tips.
I have a question on MIDI. I`m starting to use DMXIS as a Plugin/VST in Ableton Live so i can control my light show. But the problem is that i dont know if Ableton doesnt recognize in the MIDI Sync or is it the PC.
I can make the show and save Banks and Presets by its own with DMXIS but i cant make it work with Ableton Live.
What should i do or what error am i not seeing???
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME!!! and by the way AWESOME VIDEO!!!
+Leonel Rojas Thanks! Hummm, I haven't personally played with DMXIS enough. I know it ends up on it's own track like any other virtual instrument. You may need to search out other DMXIS specific videos.
HI Rich, I am just getting started and will be building a production from the ground up and will be purchasing everything at once. Is it possible to have a one-man (woman, in this case) show? All the lights, monitors with lyrics/ cues for on stage, video, music, effects to be programmed and basically ( after many hours of programming ) be able to "click" and have the whole production run straight through? The only thing "live" will be my vocals.
Hi Rich,
We perform dance ballets which involves a lot of programming of lights. We are also using projection corresponding to each scene. As of now we are doing the lighting manually. I was thinking of ableton live 9 as a master control for lighting, sound (pre recorded) and projection. I have a mac book with 8 GB RAM. I was thinking of buying DMXIS as interface. I wanted to know
1.Is mac book pro reliable enough to handle all these tasks for a stage show?
2. Is DMXIS good enough, if not what else?
3. Is there anybetter alternative to ableton 9?
Hi Harish!
Looking at you setup and needs I think I might look into another program called Qlab 3. That will serve as master control for you whole show, play audio, and video. I would also look at Jands Vista as the lighting controller.
You probably could run everything from one machine but sometimes video is a little intense and you may want that to run on another machine. The good part is that both companies offer fully functioning demos of their software so you can try everything out before spending money.
Ableton and DMXIS would work as well. The big advantage of Ableton is being able to jump around like a live band may want to do. For you that may be overkill and Qlab may be a little easier to set up.
Hope that helps!
Rich
thank you, could not find any helpful information anywhere.
HI Rich,
How are you recalling cues and do you have an auto-stop encoded at the end of each song?
I'm designing a new live setup and have been using other software for backing tracks. Trouble is I almost need a mix of session and arrangement but with the multiple tempo changes I have during some tracks (think orchestral) using session view is pointless unless I record all the clicks beforehand and ignore Ableton's metronome.
I haven't done the whole show as a single arrangement before. I have used DP's chunks in the past too.
Chris
Hi Chris!
Cues are simply MIDI notes on a track that get routed to Bome's MIDI Translator. Bome's then takes the note and turns it into a MIDI Show Control command that the lighting console likes. These cues are directly selected and not simple "go" commands. This insures that the lighting console and Ableton always stay in sync without the use of timecode.
Unfortunately I am not super well versed yet in Ableton. I know that with this method we can start, stop, repeat, change tempos, pretty much anything we need to do to accommodate the structure of a song and avoid being stuck to a rigid format. The cues all follow the changes.
As far as I know this setup can do everything you would like to do. You'll just have to structure the timeline view and program in the tempo changes. We do that all the time and I know it works, I just never set it up myself.
Will (the Ableton Certified guy in the video) now works for MultiTracks.com and has some more videos on there you can check out...
www.multitracks.com/blog/category/ableton-live-basics-if-you-are-new-this-is-where-you-start/
I hope that helps!
Great video! i have a question though... is it possible to map lighting onto triggered clips? I see that you can midimap on the session view, but i play my music triggering clips. Would that be possible? Thanks in advance!
Gennaro De Santis Yup, definitely! It mostly depends on your lighting controller and what it let you map to MIDI. In theory you could assign MIDI notes to preset looks and change everything on the fly that way. A note on command could bring up the look and a note off command would take the look out.
Sorry I couldn’t find the answer after skimming through the myriad of comments. Is the MSC into the Ion through a Net3 gateway or directly into the midi inputs of the Ion? (We have a Gio) Does the Ableton computer have a USB/MIDI dongle to connect to the Ion?
Hi Ron!
The Ableton machine has a USB to MIDI adapter that goes directly into the Ion console. In this setup that was teh only physical MIDI connection. Everything else was MIDI over the network.
I hope that helps!
Rich
This is great video and clear explanation! I have one question: would a scaled-down Ableton version (Lite, Intro, Standard) do the job? The full version, Suite, is quite expensive..
+djf Yes it would! Any version of Ableton will output the MIDI notes needed.
+Rich Belgie Jr Great, thank you very much!
It seems I'm the only person concerned with this, which I don't quite understand, or maybe I'm just missing something but... What about video drift? We have tried using Ableton to trigger video playback from ProPresenter and it works, no problem.
The issue is when you have videos that need to playback in sync with audio from Ableton (and of course the band, playing to Ableton click). The video drifts out of time. ProPresenter cannot sync to MIDI Timecode. The only "solution" I've thought of is to break the videos up into smaller segments and trigger throughout the song, instead of just at the beginning. Not ideal.
Any thoughts?
+Sam Amato Hi Sam! That is a legit concern and here is what we have found out. ProPresenter is a terrible video player, ha ha. Things that play perfectly in QuickTime sometimes play choppy or lag in ProPresenter even though Renewed Vision uses QuickTime in the background to play videos.
Only thing I would say in Renewed Vision's defense is sometimes codecs get installed and mess things up. If you can, try the video on another machine with a fresh install of OSX and ProPresenter and see if you have the same problems.
In our case how ProPresenter starts videos is the biggest issue. Typically it will read the whole file from disk to RAM and then start playing. This is fine with smaller motion background loops where timing doesn't matter. Or even larger announcement videos that don't sync to anything on stage. But it's awful for timing critical things like synced lyric videos.
What almost makes the issue even more annoying is that it isn't consistent, ha ha. So the first time it loads the whole file then plays. The second time you trigger the video sometimes it's still in RAM and plays immediately. If it was consistently late by the same amount you could simply offset you cue in Ableton and be done.
What we have used for shows with timing critical videos is Qlab. Qlab is a very good, and very powerful, media server. There's a free demo and unless you need the extra features the software is completely free.
Qlab will start to play immediately even while it is still reading the rest of the file from disk. Lowering that start lag time down and I have never seen it drift over time. It can also go one step further and load files to RAM before playing. Now there is no load time at all, files trigger instantly, and it is extremely consistent. This is what we do and it has proven to be extremely reliable.
Only other thing I would double check is make sure the tempo your video was created at matches the tempo they are performing at. We have made videos at one BPM only to have the worship leader change it. As long as you can type in speed in % you can slightly speed up or slow down the video a couple BPM no problem. On ProPresenter 5 there's a speed slider that shows %, maybe on 6 you can type the %.
Last option could be to have the click track play from the video in ProPresenter. Now, even if the video drifts, the click is drifting with it and the band stays locked in. Not our favorite solution to rely on ProPresenter like that, but we have done it and it works as well.
Hope that helps!
Rich
+Rich Belgie Jr
Thanks Rich, very good information there. I knew we couldn't be the only ones out there experiencing these issues! :)
Time to check out Qlab then. Also, good point about making sure the video is at exact tempo band is playing. I've found that if the video is made to the original song but within Ableton I warp it, even as close as possible to original tempo, that can be enough to throw things off. Now we know to export the songs from Ableton and make the videos to the warped tracks.
+Sam Amato No problem Sam, glad to help!
When we make video in house we do what you mentioned. We create the click track from Ableton where the song reference is on the left and the click is on the right. Now we have a rock solid reference with the click and music in one audio file. If the music and click are separate files it's easier to make mistakes and have something moved accidentally.
We've got plenty of events stacking up in the next few months. We'll definitely be posting up some more videos!
Are you pushing Midi Timecode to the Lighting Console or just MSC? I'd like to be able to push MTC to my Grand MA, but I can't seem to find a plugin for Ableton to push MTC, only SMPTE. Is there a plugin to output MTC from Ableton?
Hummm, I'll ask my buddy who's Ableton certified and see what he says about the timecode options.
We only used Midi notes and MSC for our setup. That gave us the freedom to change tempos or repeat sections on the fly. Timecode doesn't allow for that since it's linear. So we didn't play with timecode all that much.
HI Rich,
Great video. It persuaded me to purchase Ableton Live, DMXiS and Arkaos Grand VJ. I know the 2nd 2 programs are different but they fit my needs. What kind of projector do you use? How many lumens? Is it front or rear screen? Thank you very much.
+North Captiva Island Club Hi! We have used many different projectors for different events. Short throw, long throw, 3,000 lumens up to 21,000 lumens. Depends on the event and the needs.
Good brands I like are Epson and Panasonic. Christie is ok but they always seems to have problems. Barco is great but very expensive. I have several large Panasonics and they have been 100% trouble free for a couple of years now.
+Rich Belgie Jr Thank you very much!
+North Captiva Island Club Sure thing!
This is exactly what I need but as a tutorial not just a rundown. Please let us know if you have anything like that published with all the specifics. I'd even pay to get that. Great job you guys.
Hey! Reach out to Will, he can arrange for various types of trainings and is a genius. ua-cam.com/channels/295MRKLsp1CusL21WdvrDg.html fromstudiotostage.com/
I have a question, could you have done this same setup with Ableton live running on stage? How would you have completed that? I would like to do the same at our church.
Josh Clevenger Hey Josh! We have a network just for show control and lighting. There’s a CAT5 cable on stage that connects the Ableton laptop to the lighting console and anything else we are automating.
You can go WiFi but that opens the door to latency and connection issues. Especially when the room is full of people and phones with hotspots.
Will and Rich! Awesome. I know this video has been around a while, but it's still so amazing.
Question about Bomes and the ION (We have the same console): I'm new to MSC and haven't bought Bomes yet. Does Bomes have built-in MSC commands that I can choose, or do I have to learn hexadecimal numbers? Maybe I'm overthinking this. Just don't really know how MSC works.
+Aaron Doerr Hi Aaron! Unfortunately Bome's will only capture and replay commands. To my knowledge it cannot generate them from scratch.
We used Qlab (there's a free version) to generate the MSC commands and test to see what worked with the Ion. Once we figured that out we captured the commands from Qlab into Bome's and then set it up to trigger from Ableton.
We did this for the first 100 or so cue commands. Will then figured out what value changed in the hex to change the cue number and created cues up to about 400. He went super nerd on the whole thing ha ha.
So you don't really have to learn hex, but you do need to capture the hex code from another program. Qlab is probably your best bet for that. It's pretty easy to use. Hope that helps!
+Rich Belgie Jr Perfect. Thanks! Time for me to put on the nerd cape and get to work.
+Aaron Doerr ha ha, for sure! It's worth the work!
Hi Rich,I notice during to video (12:30) Rich adjust the volume on a small mixer. is that just monitors in your controll room? I am planning on sending Dante from our Abelton computer to FOH mixer (Yamaha CL5) and was going to use a Beringer X-Touch to control Abelton volume. Am curious why you use the small mixer.
Hi! Yeah it's just a small Mackie that we used to be able to solo sends to the console. This way we could hear the loop and click without going through the FOH console.
Are you running your 8 outputs to the Mackie and then sending L&R or aux sends to FOH?
+poucedeleon I honestly forget if we went into the console then out of the direct outs to the FOH console or if we used multiple interface outputs to go to both at the same time.
I've found Reaper, which will push MTC or LTC across physical or virtual interface. I've tested it as master, slaving Ableton, and it works great. Next step for us is to test with our console (MA lighting).
Nice, Qlab by Figure53 is also a good program for master control. Worth taking a look at.
We use the same ION light console. do you need a midi interface to work on the console side?
Hi Tim! Yes, to connect to the Ion you'll need an actual MIDI cable connection. We used a simple USB to MIDI cable but you could come out of an interface as well. In the Ion you'll have to go into the console setting and enable MIDI Show Control (MSC). The remote control options are off by default.
Hey Robert!
UA-cam wouldn't like me reply directly to your comment for some reason.
You can experiment with Ableton sending out MIDI notes to trigger ProPresenter. There's a MIDI add on to ProPresenter that enables all kinds of cool controls for lyrics and videos.
ProPresenter will not be frame accurate, it will be close, but not down to the frame. ProPresenter is an ok media player. There's lag from when you tell it to do something and when it actually loads the file and starts to play it.
Unfortunately this lag is not consistent. Since it is not consistent you can not simply offset the cue to play the file. If the timing is very critical I would recommend a different route.
QLab is a very good player and works with just about anything. It can be triggered by keyboard shortcuts, timecode, MIDI, a clock, just about whatever. It also loads media to RAM so the start of playback is quick and better yet, consistent.
You can download a free trial and play around with it. If you like it you can purchase it or even rent it for a couple of bucks a day.
Hope that helps!
Rich
Quick question. The new MacBook Pro's don't have Ethernet. Is my only option to setup a wireless network from my MBP? Thanks
Yeah it is a little annoying that it's not built in anymore. They just want another $30 out of you for their USB to ethernet adapter.
store.apple.com/us/product/MC704ZM/A/apple-usb-ethernet-adapter
Rich Belgie Jr
Oh cool I didn't know they made a USB to Ethernet. How much more reliable is an Ethernet Line than wireless?
hi, is there a recording if that show? your light programming is very sophisticated. nest regards
Hi, sorry, I do not think I have a video from the event itself.
THIS is awesome! I am just in the start spot but in a church in Argentina. And I'm starting on dmx tech as well. I was thinking to buy a usb to dmx and of course some dmx RGB lights and control them with Ableton Live automations (I am really into Live). Is this possible? Thanks!
Hey Nicolas!
Yes Ableton can definitely control lights and trigger cues. You could use an Enttec DMXIS as a start if things aren't too complicated. Or Have Ableton trigger cues via MIDI to a lighting console. Jands Vista is a good one and you can play with their free demo.
Rich Belgie Jr Hey Rich, thanks for the quick answer. Regarding the Enttec in Argentina is way too expensive. So I was thinking as a first step to use a usb to dmx adapter or interface (We have only 6 dmx rgb lights so it's quite easy). Although I am wondering if I need to use the QLC+ in order for that to work. On the other hand I use a LOT of Ableton since 2005 I think, so this is a lifesaver solution not only for the church but also for my band with visuals, lights and audio backing tracks processing of my synths all in one ;) And finally can you tell me the mac pro specs? I also need to buy one. Congrats on the great work you did.
Nicolás Gastón Valerga The Enttec comes with software which is needed to have Ableton drive DMX lights. Ableton by itself does not output DMX, the Enttec software is like a plugin. Ableton is great and super powerful for music but it needs a helping hand when it comes to lighting.
hehehe yeah I know. It is not very often, but it does. I'll take it into account as a good investment then. Thank you Rich Belgie Jr! I'll post videos of the worship updates soon ;)
Hi Rich, really cool video! Just a quick question, who was triggering the songs? The drummer through a MIDI controller or someone in the room? Thanks!
Hi Luis! In this case we were running the loops from FOH. This made the most sense for this show since it involved constantly changing bands. For church services our keyboard player typically triggers the loops. Hope that helps!
Great, thanks for the answer!
Luis Miguel Suarez No problem!
How do you control this from the stage? Are you at the mercy of he start and stop from the FOH or do you have some way of controlling from stage?
Hi Steven! For our Ocean's Edge School shows there's a production manager in the booth, on headset with the backstage people. Once a scene and band change is done and we get the all clear, we will start a song. This way we know that the band and all tech elements are ready.
For a normal Sunday worship set we use MIDI over ethernet so that the band member controlling Ableton, typically the keys player, can start the song when the band is ready.
We use the built in midi over ethernet feature in Mac OSX to connect laptop to laptop. We also use an iConnectivity MIDI4+ to connect the stage laptop to a MIDI interface with a physical output to connect to our lighting console. Pretty sweet little box. www.iconnectivity.com/products/midi/iconnectmidi4plus
I hope that helps!
Rich Belgie Jr Thanks! That is more complicated then I would’ve thought but your explanation makes sense. I’m a worship pastor in a plant church in a school theatre and they have that same light board. Trying to figure out how we can set up an ableton live set up. Is there a way to get a consult and figure out what we would need?
Hey Steven! I'd love to help! Head over to ministryav.com and go to the contact page to reach out! I'd post my email here but I already get enough spam, ha ha.
Are you located and do you offer training or the ability for myself to come by and take a look? Would like to know more about controlling all 3 aspects from one location like you are doing in the video.
Hi Cliff! We are in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. We are looking into ways to train and share the setup with people. Where are you located?
We are in Jacksonville, FL
Cliff Long Hi Cliff, I guess there's a couple of options. You could head down here and check out our setup or we could visit your campus and dial in gear at your facility. Depends on if you already have all of the major pieces and just need them to talk or if you are starting from scratch.
Rich
Are you guys have the ion on console or offline software?
Hey! We were controlling the Ion console hardware directly.
I would like to know where and how to get some training in this. Brilliant concept! Our church holds about 400 with 2 services running. We have a Yamaha CL3, Run 1 Propreseter Mac running 3 screens and a very simple lighting setup. Help/Suggestions/Training suggestions???
Hi Don! As things calm down a little after Easter and we catch our breath we're looking to put together some more detailed training. What specifically are you looking to do? Control lighting, lyrics, or both?
cool
This is what I call Easy/High Level Of Production
Amazing Sir how to do that i want to learn... :-)
Ha ha, glad to help! Got any specific questions?
What light virtualizer do you use?
Hi Frexk! I use Light Converse. I think it's the best for the money. WYSIWYG is probably the best out there and it's the industry standard but costs a lot of money. Light Converse is pretty powerful and has worked for me so far.
Yeah I heard alot about that one, I just wouod like to find a free
+Frexk yeah I haven't found a good free option. Might be out there but I haven't seen it.
Mostly integrating click and multitrack along with pro presenter . Lighting is very simple at this time.
Gotcha, couple of ways to do that. Either adding the MIDI controls to ProPresenter or using Bome's MIDI Translator to send keyboard commands. I'll see if I can get my buddy Will to help make a video specifically for the lyrics controls.
Help request here.
I'm attempting to construct a midi-controlled music therapy device for a deaf/special needs music student. The teacher has received a grant for pieces of the SoundBeam system and unfortunately actually used it. The devices are identical to what you're doing and DJ's around the country are doing...with added zeroes on the price. I've stepped in to help since they can not afford to complete the system. I have logic. I have Ableton. However, I think I'd like to avoid using those since we need to keep it simple for teachers. However, all suggestions are welcome and proof we can do this cheaply is important so no need to complicate things.So now the questions.
DMXIS vs Bome. I think I can run a dmxis system in ableton or logic connected to a Chauvet PAR light and use a midi note value to trigger a specific color. No need for Bome or a lighting controller as the PAR light connects to the dmxis.
Can the dmxis system run as a stand-alone program without the need for a vst host?
If I go with Bome and not the dmxis system do I need a USB to DMX converter and a DMX controller like the Chauvet Obey 70?
What's the fastest way/shortest software path to hit a midi controller or note and make a green lite happen...hit another midi trigger and make a red light happen? Learning environment not stage environment.
I will graciously accept any information. Do not pre-qualify yourself. Just spit out what you know. I'm in the beginning stages of making this happen.
Hi Brad! For what you're talking about DMXIS might be best since you're not trying to do lots of complicated moving lights or hundreds of cues. You could program certain notes to certain cues to create the color changes you would like. Now you're only in one program for setup and control.
Ableton allows tremendous control for linking parameters. I'm sure you could control simple LED fixtures in this way with DMXIS.
In a way its a shame that "doing worship" these days really means "doing a production" and the reason for it is sprinkled on later just to affirm it is church and not a rock concert... But on the other hand even I have to acknowledge how useful integrated control is for lighting, sound, and projections. I've just started doing it for our major concert series at Christmas and also the dramatic Good Friday service... And we're a Lutheran church, not a mega church.
Those looking for better light control, going to a software dmx and adding it as plugin track(s) to your DAW is probably the easiest. But if you are stuck with a console then you find ways. Those without a sophisticated console might just want to make the leap anyhow.
The balance between a "show" and "worship" is always ever present. I find that every congregation is different and it's up to the worship leaders and tech staff to find that balance.