MiSTer FPGA and Screen Filters in 2024! Scanlines, Shadowmasks and More! Do You Need a CRT TV Still?
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Lately I have been getting a LOT of questions from people...as to whether or not MiSTer FPGA is worth the price of the hardware and whether or not its right for you when it comes to your retro gaming obsessions! Well I am here today to tell you that MiSTer FPGA is a piece of video game history and video game preservation perfection that you NEED to have in your gaming collection! and one of the most common topics asked about are screen filters on MiSTer FPGA! Scanlines for the best retro games, shadowmasks for the Neo Geo FPGA core, gamma for the Nintendo 64 MiSTer FPGA core...and more! So let's talk about all the screen filters on MiSTer FPGA!
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I asked, you answered...and I try to listen :) Of all the requests for new content on the channel one of the most frequently asked for videos is a series on the Terasic DE-10 Nano MiSTer FPGA hardware...so here it is! Retro gaming goodness.
I mean there is MiSTer FPGA PS1 Core, MiSTer FPGA Neo Geo core, MiSTer FPGA SNES core, MiSTer FPGA NES core, MiSTer FPGA Sega Genesis Core, MiSTer FPGA Sega CD core, MiSTer FPGA Sega Saturn Core, MiSTer FPGA N64 core, MiSTer FPGA PC Engine Core, MiSTer FPGA Capcom CPS and CPS 2 core, MiSTer FPGA Sharp X68000 core...and the list goes on! and they could ALL benefit from Screen filters!
Questions? Comments? Just leave them below and I will do my best to answer each and every one of them!
/ videogameesoterica
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Tbh the only CRTs I really remember scanlines on were monochrome screens. All the colour TVs and monitors we had used masks that broke up the lines.
Remember that game artists back in the 2D era designed their sprites and background art with CRTs in mind, so they were going for a specific look with that blur. You do have a point about the 3D games because once the scale of the character can't be controlled that flies out the window.
Even then it comes down to the CRT you have and the cable you use. I’ve been using a PVM with RGB for forever so in my head sharp is “correct”. Someone with a consumer CRT in composite has a totally diff image of “correct”…which is kind of fun
@@VideoGameEsotericaI agree but nobody in the 80s and 90s used a pvm for video games. I bet more people total use them now than back then for that purpose.
Edit: maybe computer monitors with DOS games are closer to that experience
Well sure. Our mental image just shifts over time
Some people like using yhe composite crt look for ps1 games. There's a few examples on UA-cam recorded externally not direct capture which show the benefits of why you would want to soften even 3d graphics of that era, masks dithering, silent hill 1 is a prime example. Looks better in my opinion than raw hdmi or even RGBs. Ps2 era I think is the cut off point for these filters since everyone moved to flat panels for better or worse.
It works well for all 3D consoles of that generation IMO
Filters are super important in some games IMO. Chrono Trigger is one. Certain visuals just aren't correct on a clean pixel perfect image. The world map art really depended on everything being low res and blurred together. The forests especially look like a mess of green and brown pixels when not using a filter on an modern TV. Also, the shadow under the text in menu's just doesn't work pixel perfect. It's just a few black pixels sitting beside the white text, it looks weird. Flip on a filter that blurs the image a bit and boom, those black pixels are shadows now.
It's stuff like that you don't even really notice until you flip on a filter and see it in real time change how things look. I personally just acquired a few old CRT's for my retro gaming setup these days but before that filters were an excellent way to emulate the experience. If you are looking for old CRT's that won't take up to much space but still have component hookups I suggest looking into the 14 inch Toshiba AF series. The AF41-46 are about the best small CRT's you can get.
Yes it’s very game by game dependent and even level by level / area by area dependent
I think "throwing out a CRT" is a bit far fetched for MiSTer and Retrotink until the filters match some of the more advanced CRT shaders in Retroarch like CRT Royale. But this Retroarch filter requires at least a GeForce GTX 1080ti to process in 4k. That said, these filters are solid. The shader I use the most is EggRGBAlt5x, which is no longer provided by default. For Nintendo 64, I use the Retrotink slot shader. I use 80/40 adaptive scanlines and a Poly Gamma of 2.5.
Everyone can bring their CRTs to my house lol
*These videos are such a VIBE!*
Haha glad people appreciate “the vibe”
When I want a sharp CRT look I use:
GS_Sharpness_070, SLA_30_70, Poly Gamma 2.3, MG Stripe (Magenta Green)
I will often soften it up by setting GS_Sharpness_045 or 035.
If I want a PVM look, I use the same settings above but with scanlines set to SLA_010_050. It does darken the image so HDR helps here. I have also had good results using the included presets in the /Presets/General Hardware/ folder such as Console - 3rdGen, Console - 4thGen, etc.
I’ll give this combo a try. Thanks!
One important thing to mention is that when using scanlines, it helps to use vertical integer scaling, otherwise the scanlines will look uneven. If outputting at 1080p, turn on Vertical Crop 216p (5x) to get evenly spaced scanlines. Doing this will cut a bit off the top and bottom of the image, but if you're going for that authentic CRT look then that's exactly what a CRT will do anyway.
I’ll notate that in a potential pt2
nice video! very hard to capture the heavier effects with shadow masks without 1440p+ on youtube. love that the gba filter brings gamma to 130. thats a sweet spot I found for the over-brightened games on the console & I prefer that to the color correction options in the core. for other consoles I like the poly gamma options, generally around 2.3-2.5 depending on the game/system
Trying to get any of this across on YT is always hard. Especially with stats showing the large bulk of viewers are on phones
Great work as always, sir. As you stated, this approach to filters is subjective to an individual's taste, and there's no "right or wrong way".
I thought I'd share my settings. I have a 2016 Vizio M-55D0 4K television, and after endless tinkering, I settled on Display Specific: Sony PVM, adjust GS sharpness to 065, and change gamma to CRT simulation. I put this across all cores, and feel it does a great job creating a nice scanline effect, while the CRT simulation keeps the image nice and bright. 👍🏼☺️
I mostly harp on the subjectivity because there’s always one commenter who gets angry I don’t use the filter they love lol
Haha. I understand completely
I feel like your perspective on filters is that in the same way MiSTer makes the emulation authentic to the original experience, filters help keep the visual representation authentic to the end user experience from when the hardware was new. At least, those are the words I'd use.
Basically on filters my perspective is “if you like it great”
After watching some of your videos I have no more doubt that this is the best way to enjoy (retro) games on the tv. The filter selection is the best I ever have seen.
On a modern tv it’s def the device I use the most for retro now
I really like the Shadow Mask feature.
A good tip: Disable all Core-specific video filters.
And just use the Video prossessing combo:
-Horz Filter: Interpolation (soft).
-Shadow mask use one of these:
*For Consoles: SlotsTiny or DotSmallSubtle2Bright12
*For Arcade: Sony PVM (Generic) (~1980) or Squished VGA [RGB] (1987)
Note: You can rotate Shadow Masks as you like.
Could you try it?
I’ll take a peek
@@VideoGameEsoterica If you like scanlines, you will love Sony PVM (Generic) (~1980) Shadow Mask + Interpolation soft. (remeber to try rotated too)
👍
My favourite is:
Horizontal Filter: No interpolation
Vertical Filter: SLA_Dk_000_Br_000.txt
This will make the screen too dark but the scanlines will look great.
Max out the brightness and colour on your TV.
Nothing else changed.
I almost mentioned adjusting tv brightness but everyone’s tv is so diff who knows the end result
@@VideoGameEsoterica
Yes, just get the brightness where you want it. My settings will need the TV's brightness to be adjusted somewhat. And, I find the colours on my TV to be too washed-out so I max them out.
I have been playing around with MiSTer and retro gaming on a new projector for fun
@@VideoGameEsoterica
Ah, I've seen those on MyLifeInGaming. Wish I could try it out. Hopefully I can get a Tink4K soon and try the CRT options with my old movies.
@@VideoGameEsoterica
A video on your projector would be good.
I use the following:
Horz filter: GS_Sharpness_90.txt
Vert filter: lanczos2_10.txt
Scan filter: None
Gamma correction - off
Shadow Mask - 1 X Rotated
Sony PVM (Generic) 1980
I’ll have to take a peek at that combo
To me the critical thing that tricks my brain into feeling like I'm playing on a TV isn't traditional scanlines. What's most important is the effect of vertical color banding that comes from both slot masks and aperture grilles. In a perfect world I would use one of mister's included slot/aperture mask effects for my 4K TV and get a relatively realistic representation of the effect, but since the output resolution is too low for that then I have to settle for the Magenta/Green stripe mask, which does a surprisingly good job.
Yes the blending and banding are a specific look you don’t inherently get on LCD tech
I use this combo on my Samsung 4K 55":
Horz: GS Sharpness 55
Vert: SLA 20_60
Gamma: 120
SM1x: S-Slot
(Video_mode=1600,1200,60 and integer scale)
Brightness & contrast at max on the TV 😉
I’ll give it a shot
I enjoy the filters when I get the scaling right. But I have a Trinitron CRT right next to my modern TV, so I usually just use that. It's cool to try and get them to look close. I enjoy 3D titles on CRTs as well.
Same. I go back and forth between CRT and modern displays all the time
I've found the Sony Trinitron preset, with MiSTer set to 1080p, and 5x scaling in cores to be my sweet spot (for things that aren't handhelds). Growing up we had a Sony WEGA so the aperture grille look is just what "feels right" to me! Although, I'm salivating of at the idea of replacing all that with the MiSTer doing direct output into a retrotink-4k
The WEGA TVs we’re always nice. Still are
Nice! Also going to try the setup where hdmi is piped into a tink 4k.
I have a video up for that as well
I certainly feel warm and invited to your space :D (Though I can't say I'd noticed before, even if I kinda know that you'd be doing something given your film background!)
Haha if I do my job well you’d never know I was doing it at all
When I started trying out filters a while back I was surprised on how deep they got and also shocked that you can't save a custom preset on the mister itself when you're done modifying them. I found out you had to make your own preset file with the filter settings in it then transfer it to the mister which is just a complete pita when you have a filter setup how you want then want to use it in different cores or if you want to quickly compare a custom preset against another preset.
Yes it’s a bit of a limitation
I was obsessed with scanline filters and shaders for a decade. The past few years I don't seem to care about them at all. I've learned to embrace and appreciate the raw pixel art on modern displays.
It’s definitely an always evolving thing for us all
Thanks for this! I have a similar thought process to you re: filters, I prefer it more on 2D and handheld than on 3D. But I like the fuzzier stuff more than you do. It really depends on my mood on a given day though. Some days I want to recreate the crappy CRT experience of my childhood, some days I want a really high quality visual experience. I love that we have options. This vid just sent me down a rabbit hole researching HDR on MiSTer, and it looks like there's some support. Going to have to try that out.
Yes I’d say 3D I just want to see the raw output personally
Yes. Yes I still need my CRTs😂
Excited to some day give Retrotink 4K a shot though. Should be interesting to see as even some speedrunners give it praise.
The RetroTink 4K has been a ton of fun so far
I use Snes_Gaussian_Sharp_03 (vert and scan are greyed), gamma Correction Gamma_110, Shadow Mask Monochrome Stripe. Vertical Crop 216p. Scale V-Integer and Pseudo Transparency Blend.
And i use it for nearly every Core :P It is hard to find something that looks as smooth as a CRT but not too blurry and don't has too visible Black Lines, really, my CRTs never had such thik black Lines.
The lines just inherently blend on a CRT. Part of the technology they use
very good video. I really like the content about mister fpga. I spend a lot of time customizing the scanlines, but I have a lot of fun in the process.
Glad you enjoy the vids!
I was thinking about your last image that you pointed out you filter to look warmer. I have a suggestion. get either a warm led bulb under 4000kelvin light temperature closer to 3000. Even if its only 1 watt if you have a warm light source added in to your lighting set up its at least producing the shades for the camera to pick up and possibly need less work enhancing it to feel warm.
Edit: left out the or, or an incandescent ;) no matter how small.
I don’t filter to make it look warmer. I color balance for the warmth and I use a specific Sony color science for it :) all my shots are natural lighting
@@VideoGameEsoterica natural light is normally a bit blue. That is probably what I was seeing. Advice for a little more color range on the source stands ;) Still they looked great even before you called my attention to it this video.
The only thing I miss in Mister is an option of curvature, just like we had in Mame or Retroarch. If we had that, It would be even more similar to CRT.
Like CRT curvature? As in the glass?
@@VideoGameEsoterica yes like crt curvature. I miss that
I get that. Maybe one day it’ll be added
Rondo of Blood is the best Castlevania soundtrack. Just got the Mondo Vinyl release for it. Highly recommended if you are into hifi at all.
Definitely up there but SotN is my fav
One thing you don't mention is using HDR to bring back a bit of punch to compensate for the loss of brightness the filters introduce. It is the thing I miss most on the Analogue Pocket dock when using filters compared to my MiSTer.
I may mention that in a potential part 2
My take on this is that the game designers were squeezing the best out of the typical hardware of the time, so the aim with filters is to mimic that hardware. It's highly date-based.. I have wondered whether Mister could load a filter preset based on the game or console release date? I'm thinking of presets like 'Console 2nd Gen/3rd Gen' etc.
Yes it’s hard. We’re you playing SNES on an old spare tv your parents had lying around? Or a new Sony from like 1994? That affects your memory of how it looks
I use rgb roll for shadowmask on the console cores, and for gamma usually poly 2.7. adaptive scanlines for most of them as well, with sharpness down to 75ish.
I like a sharper filter but that’s me
@@VideoGameEsoterica I used to go super sharp, but once I found the right combination (for me) that little bit of blur really made sprites look more like drawings if that makes sense.
Totally makes sense :) it’s all subjective as to what anyone likes anyway
I still haven't really used my MiSTer with a CRT but I plan to. I make sure to DL both/all versions of the background wallpapers for when I get around to it. Until I do the comparison in person for myself its a question I can't really answer. But I do intend to have CRT my whole life. I even still own some Sony Watchman TVs.
Oh I’ll never get rid of it CRTs. I like options
@@VideoGameEsoterica When it comes to screens under 9 inch that I'm not watching in hand a CRT is better if you have pets too. it has enough weight their tail doesn't send it flying. ;) Better for next to a bed and that small NTSC native rez has more lines per inch than 1080 on any TV larger than 50 inch.
Haha tail logic. Love it
Nice. This kind of made 31khz pc crt monitors even better for retro gaming setups. Mister with filters for 240p content then original hardware 6th gen forced 480p in the one display. You could even emulate 6th gen hdmi to vga and ramp up the internal resolution.
480p stuff is always fun. I’ve got a Sony vga monitor in my office I use for Dreamcast stuff
I always have a mess around with filters but can never find anything that suits me so always end up going with the unfiltered sharper look. I had a feeling you did something arty, probably in film. What films have you been associated with if you don’t mind me asking?✌🏻
Nothing you’d have seen. I’m most sports and commercial. But if you watched those weird KFC commercials like 7-8 years ago (chicken arm wrestling, etc) that was me
@@VideoGameEsoterica Wow fair play to ya, that's really cool. I'm not sure we got those KFC commercials here in the UK, but what a great gig! 🤟🏻
It was a fun and weird time haha
I'd like to get that proper CRT look, but every time I play with the settings, I just find myself keeping them off. It's been so long since I've had a CRT that I don't really have a frame of reference. I could never come to a proper setting that makes me think, "Yeah! This is exactly how I remember games looking back in the day!" I'd like to try playing with settings others have come up with. I'm open to some recommendations, or any source that lists different settings.
And that’s fair. Maybe off is just the move for you :)
I mostly use the medium scanline preset and use others when I don't like the look
It’s so game to game dependent for me
I also set my cores to interger scale for the lcd filters, they look wrong otherwise.
for the consoles, I just use the preset gen 3, gen 4 and gen 5 shadowmasks
The presets are highly effective
Fantastic! Thank you!
Happy to do it
this is a huge one
Enjoy it!
Hah you read my mind. I've been messing with this all day.
Lol I am good at reading minds
Never really been a big fan of screen filters honestly (outside of the pixel grid ones on the Analogue Pocket for the handheld cores). Scan lines especially always just look distracting to me. Even back in the day, I always preferred CRTs where the scan lines were less visible. Mitsubishi made some incredible CRTs back in the 90s!
Yes some people just aren’t into it. I do love a good PVM scanline though
Curious, what’s your favorite filter set for PlayStation 1 core I’ve been kind of struggling with it trying to find a happy medium because I feel everything is a little too muddy by default.
Honestly for PS1 3D games I don’t use filters. I prefer it without
@@VideoGameEsoterica it’s not all games there’s just a few games I’ve noticed that sometimes
In most of your examples, the scanlines look bad because they're all uneven. Were you integer scaled?
It’s probably just YT compression. I put up a 6GB file, it downloads if I need it at 150MB
@@VideoGameEsoterica No, it's not the compression. With all due respect, it's because you're not using vscale_mode=4 in your ini file. With scanlines, if you are not using integer scaling they will not be correct. Pause the video at 1:07, go fullscreen of course--look at mario's hat, and take notice how the lines are not the same, they alternate thick thin thick thin... that is no bueno.
Heh, I was playing with filters last night.
Good timing!
Built my MiSTer yesterday, mostly finished setting up the cores, moving over/testing my roms and configuring my controllers. Was just thinking that the next thing was exploring filters.
And here you go! Good timing lol
The dust on the N64 triggers me every time.
And it’ll always be there :)
crt is the best, no lag, the lumma is unique, you can't replicate
It does have its own very unique look and feel
You need a CRT still if you value the motion performance of a real CRT ;)
I have four lol
You need a CRT because the MiSTer FPGA doesn't have motion adaptive deinterlacing. bob/weave are both compromised methods. Systems like the PS1/SAT/N64/Amiga etc used interlaced modes quite a lot and they look crap on HDMI with bob or weave. It is part of the reason I sold my MiSTer and probably its biggest weakness and won't be a weakness on the announced MARS FPGA or REPLAY2.
When are those systems coming out?
If you like software, Retroarch has some very decent shaders for HDR1000 4K OLED TVs have you tried them?
The community for shaders and overlays on Retroarch is absolutely fantastic!
and yet why are we just 1st gen hdmi tv's had access component and some even had s-video
s-video and component would likely give the best resolution nothing that for wide screen presentation I don[t think north america or japan for that matter had a full wide screen in either ntsc formats..
North America had wide screen CRTs for a minute
@@VideoGameEsoterica as we did here in australia by the tim lcd's came out we had plasma and rear projection tv's for close to 20 years widescreen crt's when available to be purchased had a sales spans less than 3-5 years at most
from a 32" perspective you usually had to hve a high dot matrix displays to make them feasible it use
once i went to lcd i never went back to crt's
A lot of people are fixated on crts doesn't mean didn't look better on other mediums
You should take these videos at 1080p with v-integer scaling enabled. The scanlines look terrible because the settings are not this.
Filters add lag. Thats the problem.
You could of mentioned HDR but maybe you don’t use it?
More like a potential part 2
@@VideoGameEsoterica would be interested to see that
One day :)
Scan lines😅😅😅 why not add rf interference while we are at it. Just dumb
You are allowed to do whatever you want. And there are RF adapters for people who want that look