Hello comment section! I come bearing information for *_Xbox 360 players_* ! - I know you (and the PS3 players) might be feeling a little left out by this research, but we've received word from the good folks at none other than CHAO ISLAND that there's an extremely high chance that the *_Xbox 360 version of SA2B_* is the ONLY version of SA2B that has truly random Initial Garden Eggs! Whether this also affects Failsafe Eggs and Black Market ABCDE Eggs for Luck & Intelligence Grades is currently unknown, as I lack the means to test that version. Regardless, I want you to know that there is TALK of other people considering looking into the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions. If that data is acquired, vetted, and makes its way to me, you have my word that I will add it to the Research Document, and potentially put out a (much shorter) video sequel covering it.
@Xalusc - Dreamcast's Sonic Adventure 2 has an *_almost entirely different_* Chao system from the one created for Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, so much so that it often has its own info sections over at Chao Island. There ARE plenty of folks who've looked into the Dreamcast games, however since they're so different from SA2B (and SADX), and I don't personally have access to that system or those versions, I would feel way too underqualified to cover them.
Considering the steam releases include roms, have you verified that this research holds true for the roms as they may be different release versions. It wouldn't surprise me to see different versions between early and late release having either a different table, different formula, or different seeds for any randomizer in place.
I spent the better few years with gscentral which was dedicated to Sonic Adventure 2 Battles Action Replay code discovery. The chao garden was always something of a mind game. As soon as you found something new, a whole new world opens up. Tiny Chao Garden was a huge interest to me as back then I recall used TCG to make chao stats all messed up. It's possible to make your chao display letters and impossible characters as their stat numbers and the display would break. Eventually your chao would sometimes grow beyond the normal size and sometimes into a complete polygonic mess. Not many people know this, but you can bring back fruit from the TCG INTO SA2B. Those fruits are special in that you can only get them from the TCG. Additionally, A small group with myself and a few others discovering most of the codes on gscentral, we theorized its possible to spawn in emblems from the gameboy transfer machine the same way via manipulating chao data since other chao textures use level textures later on which aren't obtainable via normal means. The shiny versions of those 3 special shiny chao do exist in code. I have them on my gamecube memory card. You can even have an egg chao and omochao. If you REALLY wanna delve into finding this stuff, Get a gamecube action replay and be prepared to spends days digging. I recall we image documented every "textured chao" which were really cool chao that used level textures for their skin. This info isn't on TCRF or Chao World. I just remember it back from when I helped out with gscentral.
One of the two involved in this is no longer at SEGA and they don't give Sonic games enough dev time to even begin to sort out implementation. You need to be in the depths of Math and Madness to concoct this system and code it. Said system has also been refined over 3 games, not including remakes of SA1 and SA2.
0:57 As someone with an auditory processing disorder: THANK YOU. I've barely gotten into the video as yet, but as soon as I saw this text I immediately felt the need to comment on it; thank you for thinking of us! Many creators don't, and it's infuriating.
and i think the sonic 2 adventure the only diffrences between retail and the revision beta is some diffrences in the choa gardon so seeing whats diffrent compared would be intresting.
"Babe come to bed!" "No I have to systematically breed another 1834 Chaos with different Characters in different Chao Gardens based on where I got the eggs from and document everything in detail."
It's lovely to see people learning just how in depth and wild the Chao Garden was. Even back in NGC days the Chao Island was BOOKMARKED on EVERY childhood computer I had... (yes, I had many.)
Calm voiced informative 50 minutes of chao garden information? Thank you for this video. (Thank you for the nice subtitles as well, I really need those and having these subtitles with bonus content adds to the high quality of this video)
However many there were, I'm glad they functioned. Had to make sure the people thinkin' this was *only* a Sea of Thieves channel knew what they were in for! 😆
Dear God, the sheer amount of effort and detail that went into this little side-mode is nuts. Discovering new details all these years later, effort that went unnoticed, it seems like Sonic Team has the chops to make a seriously fun pet-raising simulation game (or at least they did 20 years ago), so the fact that they left all of that effort behind to deliver us games like '06, Forces, and Sonic Boom is very confusing. I understand not bringing back the Chao Garden for some of their games since the core Sonic gameplay needs to feed into the Chao Garden in a certain way, but with modern tech, a modern Chao Garden could be so much more. Karate/Racing online with friends, more ways to customize your Chao, seasonal events/items, events/tournaments with various rewards, more ways for your Chao to use its stats, and so much more. The Chao Garden (and various aspects of the main game) had so much love put into it, it's not just luck that led to it resonating with players as much as it did.
Exactly; the devs who worked on these mechanics and those of similar aspects in other games, like Flower breeding in Animal Crossing? Chef's kiss. I really hope the devs of future Sonic-works manage to tap into the goldmine that's been sitting around for over 20 years.
@@Calmer_GM Open World Sonic games in concept would be legit the best moments for Chao Gardens. The whole idea of going out on adventures while exploring around weird locations, and finding special Chao eggs hidden away or other items you can bring back into the gardens is a lovely gameplay loop idea that feels bit underrated. I seen many folk argue Chao Gardens would be improved by making it a stand alone game without the exploration adventure elements, and I simply can't agree with it! I even recently been noticing some indie devs making Chao Garden knockoff/inspired pet games... but without the adventuring & anthro character playable cast it just feels hollow, and far less fun IMO.
@@fumetsusozo I think I would agree, as part of the original charm was the loop of essentially going out to find resources to bring back for your Chao, along with finding some Eggs in SADX. 20+ years ago, none of us who liked the Chao Garden cared that the "main game" action and exploration was broken up by the pet sim aspect. I could really get behind the idea of finding random things in the normal game maps that end up being trinkets, decorations, toys, etc... all for the Chao Garden zones.
I've never made use of the Chao Gardens nor intend to but still watched this in full just because it's interesting to see how deep some people will go to figure this stuff out. Much respect for all the effort you put into this and for sharing it!
Can't believe after all these years you still managed to teach me something new about my favorite childhood game. I listened to the whole thing, I wish they'd add more Chao stuff like a little mobile game that can connect to modern sonic games. But I don't know how they would implement a Chao garden in a modern sonic game.
Hey babe! An hour long video about a subsection of a game from my childhood came out! But really, thank you for your hard work piecing together all this information. As a kid it was wild combing through that stuff. That period of time feels like lost media 😂
I never played the somic games, but i love learning about them. I fall asleep listening to videos about chao gardens-- welcome to my playlist! Love how you talk so calmly and research so thoroughly. Keep it up!
I'd like to thank you for your thorough research and dedication to making this knowledge accessible amidst all the unclear and scattered information out there! While I'm not a chao breeder in practice, I've been invested in the details for a while now, and this video is excellent for setting strict limits based on observable in-game data rather than what may have been intended in the code, but not implemented exactly as implied. Also, thank you so much for taking the time to write out captions for this video. As someone with auditory issues, auto-generated captions for videos like this one are incredibly inaccurate and hard to use to supplement what I can process. Great video!
When I myself did a deep dive into Chao mechanics for my max Emblems playthrough earlier this year I learned a lot of this, but even with many hours of research and gameplay I still learned some stuff from this video. Excellent job! Instant sub.
This brings back so many memories. Even Chao Island is nostalgic as a site I remember visiting somewhere around 20 years ago. I'm really happy to see an old fansite like that still around. I love seeing in-depth explorations like this of games I remember from my childhood. Had to watch through the whole video. The Chao Garden is still one of the best extra features like this in any game I've played. I'd love to see another game do something like this someday.
This was some top notch stuff dude, I'd love to see more chao research, hopefully it can help bring more attention to the CG again cuz I'd love for the community to grow more. Also the section talking about the "inconvenient" TCG in Advance 2 was so relatable cuz I just went through that process this week for the first time and no game has ever made me seethe so badly before 😭
This was a fun watch. Personally had it in the background while making pasta for breakfast. This was pretty informative, and while I doubt I'll ever use this knowledge personally, the information thst there is lost media chao is actually something practical. I was glad to spend a cozy hour with you, thanks a bunch. Hope you stay well.
I never bred my chow for stats. I always bread them for look. My favorite that I ever made was a black two tone chow where the main color was jet black and the secondary color was like a cold black, so it was black on black, but you could still see where the highlights were.
I actually did the same thing with my old Blue version. Backed everything up and got my original blastoise onto home. After hearing that the batteries on those usually don't last much longer than 20-25 years it felt like I accomplished a rescue mission.
This video was super awesome! I’ve been a major Chao Info fanatic ever since I was a kid, so it’s always so great to see new information come out for Chao! Speaking of Chao, have you ever thought of looking into the original Dreamcast version of the game to see those types of variables, or the chao garden variables in SADX, since the chao system in that game is built off the formatting of SA2B? I think either of those would be very interesting to see!
Glad you liked it! I personally don't own the Dreamcast versions of the Adventure series so I cannot test them, however many of its mechanics as well as those of SADX's Chao have been researched for years by the good folks over at Chao Island! Take this with a grain of salt, but I THINK I recall seeing that the Eggs provided in SADX are completely random as far as Stat Grades.
Bro this video is insane. I cannot thank you enough for the amount of work you put into this. I hope to see more on this or maybe going in depth about breeding as a whole. Amazing video man, keep it up
Honestly for Chao breeding as whole, I feel like the coverage provided by certain people who came before me (e.g. EVERYONE should know SapphireChao ua-cam.com/video/odHgNBEqByo/v-deo.html & ua-cam.com/video/1uWDijgJpDc/v-deo.html ) is pretty much the be-all and end-all. I feel like any attempts by me to cover that material would come off as utterly redundant! In fact, I SHOULD HAVE placed a section in this video that directed traffic to some videos that I like, that cover the other aspects of Chao; dang it.
Now redo the video in Windows Movie Maker with transition slides and late 2000s dance / trance music so that I can really f e e l like I'm watching a video from the era of figuring out what's going on in Chao World. It also needs more misinformation as well. I want unsubstantiated rumors of a Chaos Chao garden, and extremely incorrect advice on how to make a Chaos Chao in the first place. Until you do that, I suppose I'll only have to lightly barely, like, highly and deeply commend you for your efforts in adding something new to this little community all these years later, and thanking you for it sincerely!
On my originsl SA2B i had one chao named Chaz that turned into my first chaos chao (angel one). He liked to fly and was very fast and strong. Good times.
even if i wasnt going to like and subscribe based on the amazing content of this video, your use of Bomberman 64: The Second Attack alone would make me do so
Chao was our neighborhood thing as children. We off hand knew the mechanics were complex, just not this complex. Full disclosure we played the Dreamcast version of SA1 and SA2 and the only way to view stats was on the VMU. There was a chao mini game were the Chao went on a quest and could find Luck and Intelligence fruit to eat. All stats could go to 999. I came the closest but ultimately gave up. Excellent excellent video. I am going to get back into the games, thinking the OG versions on Dreamcast. The dark garden looks much much cooler with a hill and mini cave with a cauldron in it. Or if some mad genius enhanced later versions with the OG gardens I'll play that. Thank you for this trip down memory lane. 🤡🤙🏾🤡
Indeed, things like the Dark Garden have been restored thanks to the CWE and SECW Mods, and non-Chao things from the Dreamcast versions have been restored by other Mods... So if you'd rather use the SA2B Chao system, there's really nothing holding you back on the PC version!
Please make more videos! I love this one. I like your voice and I appreciate the speed you talk at because it is so much easier to listen to!! Thanks for the video
It's wild that what the devs created over 20 years ago is still being explored by a whole "actively-being-updated" community. I never imagined it could go as deep as it has!
@@Calmer_GM I need a remake or another sequel! I understand the gripes of the game but overall such a solid experience that’s so deep & we don’t get stuff like this anymore! So replayable so different
Chao's are one of the best things to come out of the Sonic Franchise, it boggles my mind that Sega never does anything with them anymore. It would be cool if they brought them back and you could control them in minigames, or even help you out in the main game temporarily if you get a certain item. Like you get the item and it summons them, which would either be a computer controlled character or you'd temporarily be playing as them. Wouldn't exactly be helpful if they're a brand new low level chao since they basically just slowly crawl around, so it'd probably better to not have them summonable unless they're at a certain level. If you can make your chao super powerful and awesome it would help out a lot and be a fun gimmick I think.
They're coming back in certain ways for Sonic X Shadow Generations, we know that much. After that, we've heard through the grapevine that a standalone Chao game is being worked on.
Yessir, I drank some water while watching this at work. Great research, very informative! I’m not very into Chao Garden as a player, but as a tourist this was very cool to learn about.
Man this is so awesome, thank you so much for making this video! I still need to breed the ultimate chao one day, but I got close a while back. Now it is possible ^^ Also I’m planning on making my own pet simulator game, inspired by the chao gardens, tamagotchi, pokemon etc. And although I already had a lot of things thought out such as trais, behaviour and alleles, seeing everything in such a clear format helps a lot for my own organization :) I respect your dedication and your editing, voice, scrip writing and everything is great! Keep it up dude 💪
Thanks very much for the kind words, and good luck on your project! We've seen quite a few people develop their own fan-games based on the impressions left by the Chao Garden, so even if it's a different kind of pet sim, hopefully we get to see yours one day.
I love videos like this, it's always so cool to see how in depth these systems really are. *Especially* with Chao I spent so many hours in these gardens...
@@Calmer_GM When I got SA2B I'd never really had a virtual pet before, but I fell in love with these lil things the second I saw them. I really should pick it up on Steam and play again
Hey there! Here to flex my ability to watch a video all the way through, with Flavacol-doused popcorn at my side. I'm a longtime Sonic fan, cannot for the life of me understand the info provided in the video, and am thoroughly entertained. Wonderful work! Hm, I do have a naturally 100%ed copy of Advance 2 and somewhat-completed SA2B GC... Wish I knew how to help. TwT
I finished the video. I'm surprised to find out that there's fail safe chao eggs. I'm also surprised that there's different egg groups across the playable characters. The black market doesn't seem to matter to me, though. 1 day, I'll go back to SA2B to raise chao, again. I wanna use mods for a better game experience. I want to achieve what I couldn't do, years ago... I wanna play through all of the content SA2B has to offer.
I work a night shift job in a pediatric behavioral health unit. Sometimes I have to sit with a kid all night because they have potential of self harm or the like... this was one of those nights. So yeah, i just had my laptop and a cherry coke to keep me company watching this. I love Chao and the potential of them coming back in sonic x shadow (small potential, just all 3 grades of chao are on the art), has gotten me rehyped to my little babies to no end. Even though I'm 100% sure all of this would be irrelevant to that anyway, its just an interesting nostalgia thing to watch.
You sir are COMPLETELY UNDERRATED keep going you not only earned my respect for the dedication but the sheer dedication to this i look forward to your future videos and achievements, i hope you reach 500 subscribers soon! Ill be letting my friends know about you!
I gotta say, it's always fun to watch people "nerd out" over these old games and scientifically catalog the possibilities like this. Kudos for doing ALL THAT resetting just to get this data. The Chao Garden was and remains my favorite part of SA2B, so I always love seeing what new things people find out about them. As for the "modders won't have reasons to use this:" I have modified Chao in SA2B, and the game has ways of flagging such Chao so you can't use them in races or fights once the stats get above a certain level. So it is definitely still useful even to modders, since a legit Chao is still necessary to finish up the racing and battle modes.
This video sent me down a rabbit hole of looking up how Chao work...holy fuck, SEGA need to just make a Chao mobile game. It would give people their Pokemon/ Digimon / Tamagotchi fix on the go. It's worth noting that most of the good info on this topic can be found at Chao Island; including the more verified claim that the max stats are actually 999 not 255 (luck and int are an exception for some reason). The forums are spotty with information, but the main pages and guides are thoroughly documented and tested.
You may have some mixed up information (and it sounds like you might have missed the times I mentioned Chao Island in the video, as well as my having listed them as a primary source in the video description); 999 is the Stat Maximum for the Dreamcast Chao Gardens, and is indeed well known as such. SA2B's Grade system is different, with Visible Stats only having Grade values of E through S obtainable in-game, while Luck & Int use a 0 through 255 system for their Grades (256 value range). These Grades determine the range of how many Points each Stat goes up by upon Leveling which is done by filling the Progress bar, with Level 99 being the cap, 4000 Points being the cap for Luck & Int, and 3375 Points being the legitimacy cap for all Visible Stats (21845 is the known hacked cap without cycling back around to 0, but doing this for Stats like Fly and Power can essentially ruin your Chao). The Admins of Chao Island are steadily doing what they can to update the pages of the site with updated information, however there's very few of them and a LOT of info to update, so it's definitely worth checking the Wiki and Talk pages, as well as their Research section in Discord, in addition to the front-end pages.
I'll definitely have to take your advice on video game preservation. Mostly so i don't lose my 100% save files of Hyrule warriors and age of calamity for switch
Without using any sofware I made a natural color All-S Neutral Chaos Chao on the Gamecube named "P-Wargh" I did not maximize his stats each generation, I just put in enough effort to hit the S ranks. But I am damn proud of that achievement.
Raises the Progress Bar/Level/Points, but no items in the game raise Grade. Well, except X Grade items from CWE, but those are for tackling the extra content CWE offers!
i would not use mods IF the steam version didn't lock out the chance of getting the pink chao color group. being locked out of content that is supposed to be there felt wrong to me, also loved the vid, very interesting stuff. this video was in the background while i was playing various games but your findings were cool and i like chao, so i did watch till the end. wish i could've transported my blastoise to the switch but i stopped playing mainline pokemon after XY/ORAS.
That's about where I stopped for Pokémon as well, but I couldn't resist testing whether I could get my childhood 'mon through or not. Was very pleased that I could!
I'm curious about how these things worked in the original dreamcast version. With no gba connectivity, I'd imagine there's only so many possible results. There'd be no easy way of knowing, but I have to wonder if removal of certain features (such as illness) played any part in the odd stat distributions that occur.
Hard to say, at least for me, since the Dreamcast's Chao stats used an entirely different system. - Illness as far as we know however was never removed, it's just extremely rare whether you're on Dreamcast or GameCube. We're talking (and I'm quoting the Professor here) a "6 in 32,768" chance. Guess I'm lucky, because I've definitely had a sick Chao back in my GCN days!
Truthfully I'm underwhelmed. I thought it was about something new pertaining to chao. I was already familiar with luck and int since back in the early 2000s from looking at the manual for SA2 where they show a " smart fruit ". That had us curious for years until we came across the info online and was aware of luck and int
No worries, your honesty is appreciated and completely valid! - The people who *_didn't_* know about Predetermined Stat Grades, what the highest achievable Luck & Int values they could get for their version were, about TCG version differences, or even about the three lost event Chao are definitely the ones benefitting the most here.
@@Calmer_GM have you ever studied the timing or hidden values (if they are hidden🤷) of the " actions " of a chao such as the emotes gained from giving the chao animals. Or the mechanism of chaos faces upon hatching or even if it's possible to get an chao with a sharp tooth frown such as the ones you see in the dark race (or hero race is it?🤷)... Maybe I should have just studied that myself actually lol
@@reptilemark7346 I've only ever briefly glanced over the work of those who came before me regarding the actions system, but that's so coincidental because I'm certain I saw someone talking about this a few days ago, specifically how in both SADX and SA2B it very much is a system that utilizes a "queue" of values rather than a timer. If I see that conversation again before you do, I'll point you to it. - As for Chao faces, I definitely have seen a LOT of talk, decades old *_and_* new, about what determines their faces and the research I saw done on it indicated that it's tied to the Personality values of Chao, which are generated as soon as an Egg is, meaning that non-1st Generation Chao's options for faces are essentially determined by genetics, and can vary from "more possibilities" to "being locked out of possibilities" depending on the Parents' Personality values clashing or meshing. This explains why many players' Initial Preset Chao, like the ones covered in my video here, seem to always have the same faces. - As for the Toothy Frown mouth, as far as I've seen that's one of the mouths they decided to lock the players out of getting in normal gameplay; I *_think_* Mods and/or Editors can enable it, though.
Watched all the way to the end. Gonna see if a Twitch streamer I watch will make it a stretch goal since her mod loves Sonic, and she did do a 8 hour long Eve Online documentary once.
Chao Island is a great source for that info, especially since a lot of it used to be based on rumors! Those stats are actually different in their effects depending on whether you play SA2 or SA2B, but the super-short version is that they affect puzzle sections of the Chao Races, and affect poses and Zeal recovery in Chao Karate.
I’ve actually never played the adventure games, yet I find this interesting. I’ve watched cyber shells video on this topic. Thanks for sharing this I know it was a lot of work.
this entire video is highly informative and I am going to recommend it to a few people i know i wonder if the TCG eggs from pso2 have 255/255 for hidden stats or if the tails chao has preset stats or randomized
While I lack PSO to confirm myself, according to all sources available it _should_ use "v1" of the TCG, meaning they'd all have Grade 255 hidden Stats. Additionally, Tails (and Knuckles & Amy) Chao will always have the same Stat spread: AAAAA 255 255 with 250 Points off the bat in each Stat at Level 1.
Have you done any research regarding the dreamcast Chao eggs? Is it the same as Gamecube? Pardon me if you mentioned it, and I just forgot, but I am genuinely curious.
Not in the video, but rather in the replies to the Pinned Comment is where it's mentioned. - Dreamcast Chao mechanics are essentially a different system, irrelevant thus far to anything in my research here. People have done plenty of digging around for info in the Dreamcast games, I'm just not one of them. All I can say is that I believe I've seen that Dreamcast SA2 also has Preset Chao, but don't quote me on that.
Now imagine if sega was competent enough to make the chao garden a whole mobile app…..it seems like the perfect thing to do. Instead of just trashing all the work they did to develop the garden
I have a ps3 copy of this game still. If I can help with the research in any way let me know! Loved this game as a kid and still occasionally go back to it for Nostalgia.
This came at a pretty good time for me, as I finally managed to get some SADX mods working and am starting on the road to all 130 emblems, which of course includes raising some chao. I also have a couple save files for Advance 2 lying around here somewhere with at least one full set of emeralds, and a completely untouched TCG, as to be honest I forgot that it existed when I finally got around to collecting emeralds. I saw this video a couple days ago and thought, "I wanna help document the parts you wouldn't or couldn't; SADX and Advance 2 are some of my favourite games, surely I have something to add." To my frustration, however, I can't seem to get SA2 mods *or* any of the external chao tools such as Krzys's set, or even Fusion's editor for that matter, so I've been unable to transfer chao between these games or even check their stats. It's really irritating that despite now being such a large part of the PC gaming sphere for a couple years now, devs _still_ neglect to properly support Steam Deck or Linux more broadly.
Unfortunately that's just how it is. Nearly every veteran of the community I've seen suggests "saving your sanity" and not trying Mods on Steam Deck for anything other than SADX. And yes, most if not all of the devs who create tools I've seen do not endorse trying to use their tools on Steam Deck. - I can't speak for them, but as an outside observer having only seen discourse about it in passing, there seems to be entirely too many things prone to failure when attempting to make all features consistently functional. All I _can_ say is, I really couldn't have done any of this without their tools and the years of work they put in, and I couldn't have done any of this without my PC.
I've continued trying, but the only way I seem to be able to check stat grades of these chao myself is to just raise them and do some math to check the averages and therefore the grades indirectly; obviously this method has no way to check for the invisible stats. I could, however, provide SADX save data for someone else to check in much the same way you did here; multiple trials, checking whether anything changes randomly, or per character or garden used. I'm especially curious about how the Gold, Silver, and Black chao in the adventure fields turn out. Once I finish mission mode and get 130 emblems I'll start collecting samples if anyone wants to help check... at current my current play rate it should take until about the first week of july for them to be ready.
Oh, if you're going through that, it might be of use to let you know that as far as I know, one of the past researchers has already looked into SADX and claimed that they found that all Eggs hatched on "all versions of SADX" are 100% random. - You can choose to take that with a grain of salt since it's unclear if the GCN version is included in the "all," on top of another commenter claiming that their SADX Adventure Field Black Chao, and all subsequent Black Eggs from the Black Market, always came out as BBBBB on their copy for the GCN. Good luck if you continue!
@@Calmer_GM I don't have any way to check stat grades efficiently, nor can I check Int or Luck stat grades at all! I have to raise their stats in order to manually calculate what stat grades they _probably_ are based on stat gain averages. nine chao per save file btw. the whole reason I went ahead with designing a data collection scheme myself was because my personal gold chao came out as an ABCDE chao - or rather, CAEDB - so I thought it'd be nice to gather proper data on Int and Luck like you did here, since afaik the data on it is lacking like it was for SA2 before you made this video... but I can't do that because none of the chao viewer programs work on my PC and I don't have easy access to a device that does work. Either I'd have to ask someone in my family if I could borrow their laptop for a week, which ain't gonna happen, or else make a standalone application to analyse the files directly without the help of the game, which could take months as I have next to no real programming experience.
So... not to be that person but... Is the version of the TCG on the combo pack of Sonic Advance 1 and Pinball Party Version 1? Version 2? Both? Neither? I don't have a Sonic Advance 1 Cartridge that isn't the later combo pack.
I don't have the combo to know for certain, but I *_believe_* each game in the pack has its own Tiny Chao Garden. If the minigame in the Sonic Advance 1 TCG is Rock Paper Scissors, it should technically be Version 1.1 which removed the deleted save file Ring glitch. I'm actually interested in testing this now that you've brought it up, and will likely look into it once I have a chance.
Hello comment section! I come bearing information for *_Xbox 360 players_* ! - I know you (and the PS3 players) might be feeling a little left out by this research, but we've received word from the good folks at none other than CHAO ISLAND that there's an extremely high chance that the *_Xbox 360 version of SA2B_* is the ONLY version of SA2B that has truly random Initial Garden Eggs! Whether this also affects Failsafe Eggs and Black Market ABCDE Eggs for Luck & Intelligence Grades is currently unknown, as I lack the means to test that version.
Regardless, I want you to know that there is TALK of other people considering looking into the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions. If that data is acquired, vetted, and makes its way to me, you have my word that I will add it to the Research Document, and potentially put out a (much shorter) video sequel covering it.
No Dreamcast? :/
@Xalusc - Dreamcast's Sonic Adventure 2 has an *_almost entirely different_* Chao system from the one created for Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, so much so that it often has its own info sections over at Chao Island. There ARE plenty of folks who've looked into the Dreamcast games, however since they're so different from SA2B (and SADX), and I don't personally have access to that system or those versions, I would feel way too underqualified to cover them.
It's a shame my 360 finally died a few weeks back, I would of happily uploaded my chao garden saves for them to look at
Considering the steam releases include roms, have you verified that this research holds true for the roms as they may be different release versions. It wouldn't surprise me to see different versions between early and late release having either a different table, different formula, or different seeds for any randomizer in place.
I spent the better few years with gscentral which was dedicated to Sonic Adventure 2 Battles Action Replay code discovery. The chao garden was always something of a mind game. As soon as you found something new, a whole new world opens up. Tiny Chao Garden was a huge interest to me as back then I recall used TCG to make chao stats all messed up. It's possible to make your chao display letters and impossible characters as their stat numbers and the display would break. Eventually your chao would sometimes grow beyond the normal size and sometimes into a complete polygonic mess. Not many people know this, but you can bring back fruit from the TCG INTO SA2B. Those fruits are special in that you can only get them from the TCG. Additionally, A small group with myself and a few others discovering most of the codes on gscentral, we theorized its possible to spawn in emblems from the gameboy transfer machine the same way via manipulating chao data since other chao textures use level textures later on which aren't obtainable via normal means.
The shiny versions of those 3 special shiny chao do exist in code. I have them on my gamecube memory card. You can even have an egg chao and omochao. If you REALLY wanna delve into finding this stuff, Get a gamecube action replay and be prepared to spends days digging. I recall we image documented every "textured chao" which were really cool chao that used level textures for their skin. This info isn't on TCRF or Chao World. I just remember it back from when I helped out with gscentral.
I dont understand why sega doesnt push Chao more as there own
this
I'd buy a standalone chao garden in a heartbeat then wait for smart people to tell me how it works
my only guess is its too much work for how much time Sega gives developers :')
For the same reason HAL Labratory hasn't made another Kirby Air Ride. Too few people actually cared about it and it wouldn't make money.
One of the two involved in this is no longer at SEGA and they don't give Sonic games enough dev time to even begin to sort out implementation. You need to be in the depths of Math and Madness to concoct this system and code it. Said system has also been refined over 3 games, not including remakes of SA1 and SA2.
Chao hatched in the TCG often having max intel kinda makes sense when you consider they can talk to you in complete sentences there…somehow
0:57 As someone with an auditory processing disorder: THANK YOU.
I've barely gotten into the video as yet, but as soon as I saw this text I immediately felt the need to comment on it; thank you for thinking of us! Many creators don't, and it's infuriating.
Here I was high-fiving friends when my chao could draw pizzas. Once all of them could draw pizzas the garden was covered
As a kid I always thought it was a plate of spaghetti but apparently it's a strawberry shortcake lol
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought they were pizza. 😅 I was shocked when I found out it was supposed to be cake!
@@gigithehedgehog8469 what 😂
It's 2024 and TIL there are still mechanics that I didn't know about Chao. This video was great and informative!
Relatable! Thanks for being here!
and i think the sonic 2 adventure the only diffrences between retail and the revision beta is some diffrences in the choa gardon so seeing whats diffrent compared would be intresting.
This video could not have come at a better time, I’ve just gotten back into chao gardening on my GameCube
You're EXACTLY who this was all for! Good luck with your Chao Gardens!
You still have "the artifact?" Impressive. Wish we could post pics on YT
"Babe come to bed!"
"No I have to systematically breed another 1834 Chaos with different Characters in different Chao Gardens based on where I got the eggs from and document everything in detail."
It's lovely to see people learning just how in depth and wild the Chao Garden was. Even back in NGC days the Chao Island was BOOKMARKED on EVERY childhood computer I had... (yes, I had many.)
Calm voiced informative 50 minutes of chao garden information? Thank you for this video. (Thank you for the nice subtitles as well, I really need those and having these subtitles with bonus content adds to the high quality of this video)
Nice video. Good data. Chill vibe. Very informative/relaxing.
Having 4 functional intros was a bit rough, though.
However many there were, I'm glad they functioned. Had to make sure the people thinkin' this was *only* a Sea of Thieves channel knew what they were in for! 😆
Dear God, the sheer amount of effort and detail that went into this little side-mode is nuts. Discovering new details all these years later, effort that went unnoticed, it seems like Sonic Team has the chops to make a seriously fun pet-raising simulation game (or at least they did 20 years ago), so the fact that they left all of that effort behind to deliver us games like '06, Forces, and Sonic Boom is very confusing.
I understand not bringing back the Chao Garden for some of their games since the core Sonic gameplay needs to feed into the Chao Garden in a certain way, but with modern tech, a modern Chao Garden could be so much more. Karate/Racing online with friends, more ways to customize your Chao, seasonal events/items, events/tournaments with various rewards, more ways for your Chao to use its stats, and so much more. The Chao Garden (and various aspects of the main game) had so much love put into it, it's not just luck that led to it resonating with players as much as it did.
Exactly; the devs who worked on these mechanics and those of similar aspects in other games, like Flower breeding in Animal Crossing? Chef's kiss. I really hope the devs of future Sonic-works manage to tap into the goldmine that's been sitting around for over 20 years.
Imagine how good a Chao garden would’ve been in Frontiers 😢
@@vickihopsin128 I haven't tried Frontiers yet, but I was indeed a bit sad to hear that they didn't see fit to bring the Chao Garden back for it.
@@Calmer_GM Open World Sonic games in concept would be legit the best moments for Chao Gardens. The whole idea of going out on adventures while exploring around weird locations, and finding special Chao eggs hidden away or other items you can bring back into the gardens is a lovely gameplay loop idea that feels bit underrated. I seen many folk argue Chao Gardens would be improved by making it a stand alone game without the exploration adventure elements, and I simply can't agree with it! I even recently been noticing some indie devs making Chao Garden knockoff/inspired pet games... but without the adventuring & anthro character playable cast it just feels hollow, and far less fun IMO.
@@fumetsusozo I think I would agree, as part of the original charm was the loop of essentially going out to find resources to bring back for your Chao, along with finding some Eggs in SADX. 20+ years ago, none of us who liked the Chao Garden cared that the "main game" action and exploration was broken up by the pet sim aspect. I could really get behind the idea of finding random things in the normal game maps that end up being trinkets, decorations, toys, etc... all for the Chao Garden zones.
I was legitimately expecting you to say "Grab a snack and a glass of orange juice".
gayming in the clinbin years
@@carlosemilio5180 I am an ancient model. Explain the joke.
@@AlriikRidesAgainThere's this video called "Top 10 hottest female sonic characters" that's become infamous and uses that line
@@kingnewgameplus6483 Oh dear Lord. Time to watch that. It sounds hilarious. I mean, in a Sonic Dreams Collection type of way.
I've never made use of the Chao Gardens nor intend to but still watched this in full just because it's interesting to see how deep some people will go to figure this stuff out. Much respect for all the effort you put into this and for sharing it!
Can't believe after all these years you still managed to teach me something new about my favorite childhood game. I listened to the whole thing, I wish they'd add more Chao stuff like a little mobile game that can connect to modern sonic games. But I don't know how they would implement a Chao garden in a modern sonic game.
Supporting for the sustainment of chao content 💯
Hey babe! An hour long video about a subsection of a game from my childhood came out!
But really, thank you for your hard work piecing together all this information. As a kid it was wild combing through that stuff. That period of time feels like lost media 😂
Listened while doing (multiple) chores! Been a loooooooong time since playing the Chao gardens
I never played the somic games, but i love learning about them. I fall asleep listening to videos about chao gardens-- welcome to my playlist! Love how you talk so calmly and research so thoroughly. Keep it up!
I'd like to thank you for your thorough research and dedication to making this knowledge accessible amidst all the unclear and scattered information out there! While I'm not a chao breeder in practice, I've been invested in the details for a while now, and this video is excellent for setting strict limits based on observable in-game data rather than what may have been intended in the code, but not implemented exactly as implied.
Also, thank you so much for taking the time to write out captions for this video. As someone with auditory issues, auto-generated captions for videos like this one are incredibly inaccurate and hard to use to supplement what I can process.
Great video!
I went through a process of trying to max a chao a couple years ago and the hidden stats certainly had me confused. Glad you did this.
The hidden stats and how they are (or aren't) used in SA2B can be quite strange! Thanks for tuning in.
When I myself did a deep dive into Chao mechanics for my max Emblems playthrough earlier this year I learned a lot of this, but even with many hours of research and gameplay I still learned some stuff from this video. Excellent job! Instant sub.
This brings back so many memories. Even Chao Island is nostalgic as a site I remember visiting somewhere around 20 years ago. I'm really happy to see an old fansite like that still around. I love seeing in-depth explorations like this of games I remember from my childhood. Had to watch through the whole video. The Chao Garden is still one of the best extra features like this in any game I've played. I'd love to see another game do something like this someday.
Agreed 100%.
This was some top notch stuff dude, I'd love to see more chao research, hopefully it can help bring more attention to the CG again cuz I'd love for the community to grow more.
Also the section talking about the "inconvenient" TCG in Advance 2 was so relatable cuz I just went through that process this week for the first time and no game has ever made me seethe so badly before 😭
This was a fun watch. Personally had it in the background while making pasta for breakfast. This was pretty informative, and while I doubt I'll ever use this knowledge personally, the information thst there is lost media chao is actually something practical. I was glad to spend a cozy hour with you, thanks a bunch. Hope you stay well.
This was incredibly fascinating. I thought i knew everything about chao, but i was wrong.
I never bred my chow for stats. I always bread them for look. My favorite that I ever made was a black two tone chow where the main color was jet black and the secondary color was like a cold black, so it was black on black, but you could still see where the highlights were.
This is my flex saying I made it to the end of the video. Was a great watch thanks for all the work!
I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks for sticking through!
Good job dude. I also played this decades ago as a kid. I want to fire the game up again on Steam now just to breed Chaos.
I actually did the same thing with my old Blue version. Backed everything up and got my original blastoise onto home. After hearing that the batteries on those usually don't last much longer than 20-25 years it felt like I accomplished a rescue mission.
This was incredibly interesting... Thanks for doing all that research
I don't particularly play sa2b but boy am I sucker for deep dives into hidden mechanics in games and you bet I made it all the way through the video!
Nothing like a good gaming deep dive.
Sega should make a new game with Chao gardens in it, or just a game that's literally just the Chao gardens. Hell, that'd be a fun mobile game.
This video was super awesome! I’ve been a major Chao Info fanatic ever since I was a kid, so it’s always so great to see new information come out for Chao!
Speaking of Chao, have you ever thought of looking into the original Dreamcast version of the game to see those types of variables, or the chao garden variables in SADX, since the chao system in that game is built off the formatting of SA2B? I think either of those would be very interesting to see!
Glad you liked it! I personally don't own the Dreamcast versions of the Adventure series so I cannot test them, however many of its mechanics as well as those of SADX's Chao have been researched for years by the good folks over at Chao Island! Take this with a grain of salt, but I THINK I recall seeing that the Eggs provided in SADX are completely random as far as Stat Grades.
Bro this video is insane. I cannot thank you enough for the amount of work you put into this. I hope to see more on this or maybe going in depth about breeding as a whole. Amazing video man, keep it up
Honestly for Chao breeding as whole, I feel like the coverage provided by certain people who came before me (e.g. EVERYONE should know SapphireChao ua-cam.com/video/odHgNBEqByo/v-deo.html & ua-cam.com/video/1uWDijgJpDc/v-deo.html ) is pretty much the be-all and end-all. I feel like any attempts by me to cover that material would come off as utterly redundant! In fact, I SHOULD HAVE placed a section in this video that directed traffic to some videos that I like, that cover the other aspects of Chao; dang it.
Now redo the video in Windows Movie Maker with transition slides and late 2000s dance / trance music so that I can really f e e l like I'm watching a video from the era of figuring out what's going on in Chao World. It also needs more misinformation as well. I want unsubstantiated rumors of a Chaos Chao garden, and extremely incorrect advice on how to make a Chaos Chao in the first place. Until you do that, I suppose I'll only have to lightly barely, like, highly and deeply commend you for your efforts in adding something new to this little community all these years later, and thanking you for it sincerely!
I actually laughed out loud, especially since I absolutely remember making videos in WMM, and have been an active fan of EDM since 1998!
Phenomenal job, man. Super informative:)
On my originsl SA2B i had one chao named Chaz that turned into my first chaos chao (angel one). He liked to fly and was very fast and strong. Good times.
even if i wasnt going to like and subscribe based on the amazing content of this video, your use of Bomberman 64: The Second Attack alone would make me do so
Your craziness and dedication is amazing. Im awe struck.
Chao was our neighborhood thing as children. We off hand knew the mechanics were complex, just not this complex.
Full disclosure we played the Dreamcast version of SA1 and SA2 and the only way to view stats was on the VMU. There was a chao mini game were the Chao went on a quest and could find Luck and Intelligence fruit to eat. All stats could go to 999. I came the closest but ultimately gave up.
Excellent excellent video. I am going to get back into the games, thinking the OG versions on Dreamcast. The dark garden looks much much cooler with a hill and mini cave with a cauldron in it. Or if some mad genius enhanced later versions with the OG gardens I'll play that. Thank you for this trip down memory lane. 🤡🤙🏾🤡
Indeed, things like the Dark Garden have been restored thanks to the CWE and SECW Mods, and non-Chao things from the Dreamcast versions have been restored by other Mods... So if you'd rather use the SA2B Chao system, there's really nothing holding you back on the PC version!
@@Calmer_GM That's exciting news! I appreciate the response. Looking forward to your next video. 🤙🏾🤡
Please make more videos! I love this one. I like your voice and I appreciate the speed you talk at because it is so much easier to listen to!! Thanks for the video
End of the video. Wish it was longer. Very enjoyable.
I backed up my entire library over the last few years. Now I have a daunting number of amazing games ready to go on emulator, very happy I did it
I’m so hype that this is a new video. I did a deep dive 2 years ago to learn all of this & I was AMAZED by how deep it goes
It's wild that what the devs created over 20 years ago is still being explored by a whole "actively-being-updated" community. I never imagined it could go as deep as it has!
@@Calmer_GM I need a remake or another sequel! I understand the gripes of the game but overall such a solid experience that’s so deep & we don’t get stuff like this anymore! So replayable so different
Much like Mega Man Legends 3, I will forever hold out hope for Sonic Adventure 3, or at least a true spiritual sequel to this series.
Chao's are one of the best things to come out of the Sonic Franchise, it boggles my mind that Sega never does anything with them anymore.
It would be cool if they brought them back and you could control them in minigames, or even help you out in the main game temporarily if you get a certain item. Like you get the item and it summons them, which would either be a computer controlled character or you'd temporarily be playing as them. Wouldn't exactly be helpful if they're a brand new low level chao since they basically just slowly crawl around, so it'd probably better to not have them summonable unless they're at a certain level. If you can make your chao super powerful and awesome it would help out a lot and be a fun gimmick I think.
They're coming back in certain ways for Sonic X Shadow Generations, we know that much. After that, we've heard through the grapevine that a standalone Chao game is being worked on.
@@Calmer_GM Oh wow didn't know either of those things, thanks for telling
Yessir, I drank some water while watching this at work. Great research, very informative! I’m not very into Chao Garden as a player, but as a tourist this was very cool to learn about.
Nice, thanks for stopping by!
Huh. I had no idea there were DNA mechanics for chao that were separate from displayed stats. I didn’t even know intelligence and luck WERE stats
I never cared for the breeding when I first played the game but this video is so interesting I couldn’t stop watching. Great video 🎉
Man this is so awesome, thank you so much for making this video!
I still need to breed the ultimate chao one day, but I got close a while back. Now it is possible ^^
Also I’m planning on making my own pet simulator game, inspired by the chao gardens, tamagotchi, pokemon etc. And although I already had a lot of things thought out such as trais, behaviour and alleles, seeing everything in such a clear format helps a lot for my own organization :)
I respect your dedication and your editing, voice, scrip writing and everything is great! Keep it up dude 💪
Thanks very much for the kind words, and good luck on your project! We've seen quite a few people develop their own fan-games based on the impressions left by the Chao Garden, so even if it's a different kind of pet sim, hopefully we get to see yours one day.
I love videos like this, it's always so cool to see how in depth these systems really are. *Especially* with Chao
I spent so many hours in these gardens...
Same! Having games like SA2B and Animal Crossing on my GameCube was a whole vibe.
@@Calmer_GM When I got SA2B I'd never really had a virtual pet before, but I fell in love with these lil things the second I saw them.
I really should pick it up on Steam and play again
If you have the time, go for it! The game goes on sale often.
I watched the whole thing while trying to get a particularly stubborn tangle out of my hair. ... not the lemur. that would be harder, i expect.
Hope you got it untangled!
Hey there! Here to flex my ability to watch a video all the way through, with Flavacol-doused popcorn at my side. I'm a longtime Sonic fan, cannot for the life of me understand the info provided in the video, and am thoroughly entertained. Wonderful work!
Hm, I do have a naturally 100%ed copy of Advance 2 and somewhat-completed SA2B GC... Wish I knew how to help. TwT
No worries! Honestly I think playing the Chao Gardens without this knowledge is in its own league of fun.
I finished the video. I'm surprised to find out that there's fail safe chao eggs. I'm also surprised that there's different egg groups across the playable characters. The black market doesn't seem to matter to me, though.
1 day, I'll go back to SA2B to raise chao, again. I wanna use mods for a better game experience. I want to achieve what I couldn't do, years ago... I wanna play through all of the content SA2B has to offer.
Incredible. Brought back so many memories. Thank you for this.
What an awesome video! Thank you for all the hard work. :3
Hi from the closing remarks! 🧡
The hunt for shiny chaos, also watched to the end
Thanks for watching it all!
How interesting this came out the same time Ive started on a chao animation
I work a night shift job in a pediatric behavioral health unit. Sometimes I have to sit with a kid all night because they have potential of self harm or the like... this was one of those nights. So yeah, i just had my laptop and a cherry coke to keep me company watching this. I love Chao and the potential of them coming back in sonic x shadow (small potential, just all 3 grades of chao are on the art), has gotten me rehyped to my little babies to no end. Even though I'm 100% sure all of this would be irrelevant to that anyway, its just an interesting nostalgia thing to watch.
You sir are COMPLETELY UNDERRATED keep going you not only earned my respect for the dedication but the sheer dedication to this i look forward to your future videos and achievements, i hope you reach 500 subscribers soon! Ill be letting my friends know about you!
I could never figure out the chao system when I was a kid
I gotta say, it's always fun to watch people "nerd out" over these old games and scientifically catalog the possibilities like this. Kudos for doing ALL THAT resetting just to get this data. The Chao Garden was and remains my favorite part of SA2B, so I always love seeing what new things people find out about them.
As for the "modders won't have reasons to use this:" I have modified Chao in SA2B, and the game has ways of flagging such Chao so you can't use them in races or fights once the stats get above a certain level. So it is definitely still useful even to modders, since a legit Chao is still necessary to finish up the racing and battle modes.
Hm, I might have to accelerate my plans for raising one of these Chao just to make certain that they also don't get flagged.
Hello again my secret 9bsession with chaos
This video sent me down a rabbit hole of looking up how Chao work...holy fuck, SEGA need to just make a Chao mobile game.
It would give people their Pokemon/ Digimon / Tamagotchi fix on the go.
It's worth noting that most of the good info on this topic can be found at Chao Island; including the more verified claim that the max stats are actually 999 not 255 (luck and int are an exception for some reason).
The forums are spotty with information, but the main pages and guides are thoroughly documented and tested.
You may have some mixed up information (and it sounds like you might have missed the times I mentioned Chao Island in the video, as well as my having listed them as a primary source in the video description); 999 is the Stat Maximum for the Dreamcast Chao Gardens, and is indeed well known as such. SA2B's Grade system is different, with Visible Stats only having Grade values of E through S obtainable in-game, while Luck & Int use a 0 through 255 system for their Grades (256 value range). These Grades determine the range of how many Points each Stat goes up by upon Leveling which is done by filling the Progress bar, with Level 99 being the cap, 4000 Points being the cap for Luck & Int, and 3375 Points being the legitimacy cap for all Visible Stats (21845 is the known hacked cap without cycling back around to 0, but doing this for Stats like Fly and Power can essentially ruin your Chao).
The Admins of Chao Island are steadily doing what they can to update the pages of the site with updated information, however there's very few of them and a LOT of info to update, so it's definitely worth checking the Wiki and Talk pages, as well as their Research section in Discord, in addition to the front-end pages.
not all heroes wear capes.
14:04
Unknown From M.E.? The SA1 version? THE INSTRUMENTAL VERSION? my man you have good taste. :P
Ah, I see you too are a gamer of culture... 😎
I'll definitely have to take your advice on video game preservation. Mostly so i don't lose my 100% save files of Hyrule warriors and age of calamity for switch
SA2B isn't 20 years ol-
_turns to dust_
[My friends and I, any time a 90s or 00s video game's anniversary comes up]
0:40 Instantly subbed to your channel
Without using any sofware I made a natural color All-S Neutral Chaos Chao on the Gamecube named "P-Wargh"
I did not maximize his stats each generation, I just put in enough effort to hit the S ranks. But I am damn proud of that achievement.
Great video, although I am pretty sure you can raise the Luck stat with feeding the chao a mushroom
Raises the Progress Bar/Level/Points, but no items in the game raise Grade. Well, except X Grade items from CWE, but those are for tackling the extra content CWE offers!
IIRC the director actually programmed the entire Chao system by himself, at home
maybe one of the best videos I have ever seen. Absolutely unreal dedication dawg
Wow, thanks for checking it out!
Thanks for doing the research and making this video.
You're very welcome!
great vid, love long form content to watch while doing other stuff, i wonder when or if they'll ever release more chao content
i would not use mods IF the steam version didn't lock out the chance of getting the pink chao color group. being locked out of content that is supposed to be there felt wrong to me, also loved the vid, very interesting stuff. this video was in the background while i was playing various games but your findings were cool and i like chao, so i did watch till the end. wish i could've transported my blastoise to the switch but i stopped playing mainline pokemon after XY/ORAS.
That's about where I stopped for Pokémon as well, but I couldn't resist testing whether I could get my childhood 'mon through or not. Was very pleased that I could!
I'm curious about how these things worked in the original dreamcast version. With no gba connectivity, I'd imagine there's only so many possible results. There'd be no easy way of knowing, but I have to wonder if removal of certain features (such as illness) played any part in the odd stat distributions that occur.
Hard to say, at least for me, since the Dreamcast's Chao stats used an entirely different system. - Illness as far as we know however was never removed, it's just extremely rare whether you're on Dreamcast or GameCube. We're talking (and I'm quoting the Professor here) a "6 in 32,768" chance. Guess I'm lucky, because I've definitely had a sick Chao back in my GCN days!
@@Calmer_GM Interesting, thank you for telling me. I guess that speaks to its rarity that I assumed it straight up didn't exist.
One whole entree of Sausage Alfredo, and three bites of Chocolate Cake; while Godot'in.
Truthfully I'm underwhelmed. I thought it was about something new pertaining to chao. I was already familiar with luck and int since back in the early 2000s from looking at the manual for SA2 where they show a " smart fruit ". That had us curious for years until we came across the info online and was aware of luck and int
No worries, your honesty is appreciated and completely valid! - The people who *_didn't_* know about Predetermined Stat Grades, what the highest achievable Luck & Int values they could get for their version were, about TCG version differences, or even about the three lost event Chao are definitely the ones benefitting the most here.
@@Calmer_GM have you ever studied the timing or hidden values (if they are hidden🤷) of the " actions " of a chao such as the emotes gained from giving the chao animals. Or the mechanism of chaos faces upon hatching or even if it's possible to get an chao with a sharp tooth frown such as the ones you see in the dark race (or hero race is it?🤷)... Maybe I should have just studied that myself actually lol
@@reptilemark7346 I've only ever briefly glanced over the work of those who came before me regarding the actions system, but that's so coincidental because I'm certain I saw someone talking about this a few days ago, specifically how in both SADX and SA2B it very much is a system that utilizes a "queue" of values rather than a timer. If I see that conversation again before you do, I'll point you to it. - As for Chao faces, I definitely have seen a LOT of talk, decades old *_and_* new, about what determines their faces and the research I saw done on it indicated that it's tied to the Personality values of Chao, which are generated as soon as an Egg is, meaning that non-1st Generation Chao's options for faces are essentially determined by genetics, and can vary from "more possibilities" to "being locked out of possibilities" depending on the Parents' Personality values clashing or meshing. This explains why many players' Initial Preset Chao, like the ones covered in my video here, seem to always have the same faces. - As for the Toothy Frown mouth, as far as I've seen that's one of the mouths they decided to lock the players out of getting in normal gameplay; I *_think_* Mods and/or Editors can enable it, though.
Watched all the way to the end. Gonna see if a Twitch streamer I watch will make it a stretch goal since her mod loves Sonic, and she did do a 8 hour long Eve Online documentary once.
i watched the whole thing! Very informative!
Real recognizes real!
this is super deep, but here's a question, what's the relevance of the luck and int stats?
Chao Island is a great source for that info, especially since a lot of it used to be based on rumors! Those stats are actually different in their effects depending on whether you play SA2 or SA2B, but the super-short version is that they affect puzzle sections of the Chao Races, and affect poses and Zeal recovery in Chao Karate.
@@Calmer_GM huh, neat. Thanks.
I’ve actually never played the adventure games, yet I find this interesting. I’ve watched cyber shells video on this topic. Thanks for sharing this I know it was a lot of work.
You're very welcome, thanks for watching!
I made it all the way through and this kinda reminds me of pokemons evs and ivs
ABC Chao stands for Already Been Chewed
19:50 love the ABC here
Hey, someone noticed it!
this entire video is highly informative and I am going to recommend it to a few people i know i wonder if the TCG eggs from pso2 have 255/255 for hidden stats or if the tails chao has preset stats or randomized
While I lack PSO to confirm myself, according to all sources available it _should_ use "v1" of the TCG, meaning they'd all have Grade 255 hidden Stats. Additionally, Tails (and Knuckles & Amy) Chao will always have the same Stat spread: AAAAA 255 255 with 250 Points off the bat in each Stat at Level 1.
Have you done any research regarding the dreamcast Chao eggs? Is it the same as Gamecube? Pardon me if you mentioned it, and I just forgot, but I am genuinely curious.
Not in the video, but rather in the replies to the Pinned Comment is where it's mentioned. - Dreamcast Chao mechanics are essentially a different system, irrelevant thus far to anything in my research here. People have done plenty of digging around for info in the Dreamcast games, I'm just not one of them. All I can say is that I believe I've seen that Dreamcast SA2 also has Preset Chao, but don't quote me on that.
Amazing work. Well done.
Also i watched the whole thing
Watched the whole video. I'm all on board with game preservation! BTW no snacks consumed lol
Cheers, thanks for checking it out!
Now imagine if sega was competent enough to make the chao garden a whole mobile app…..it seems like the perfect thing to do. Instead of just trashing all the work they did to develop the garden
Literally just pausing at 1:41 to drop a ❤ and a sub right now. Jeez I needed a minute to remember to breathe.
I saw the whole vid didn’t get distracted tho a bit with gameplay lol
I have a ps3 copy of this game still. If I can help with the research in any way let me know! Loved this game as a kid and still occasionally go back to it for Nostalgia.
I FREAKING LOVE CHAO RAAAAHHHH
Cool video, love the attention to detail!
This came at a pretty good time for me, as I finally managed to get some SADX mods working and am starting on the road to all 130 emblems, which of course includes raising some chao. I also have a couple save files for Advance 2 lying around here somewhere with at least one full set of emeralds, and a completely untouched TCG, as to be honest I forgot that it existed when I finally got around to collecting emeralds. I saw this video a couple days ago and thought, "I wanna help document the parts you wouldn't or couldn't; SADX and Advance 2 are some of my favourite games, surely I have something to add." To my frustration, however, I can't seem to get SA2 mods *or* any of the external chao tools such as Krzys's set, or even Fusion's editor for that matter, so I've been unable to transfer chao between these games or even check their stats. It's really irritating that despite now being such a large part of the PC gaming sphere for a couple years now, devs _still_ neglect to properly support Steam Deck or Linux more broadly.
Unfortunately that's just how it is. Nearly every veteran of the community I've seen suggests "saving your sanity" and not trying Mods on Steam Deck for anything other than SADX. And yes, most if not all of the devs who create tools I've seen do not endorse trying to use their tools on Steam Deck. - I can't speak for them, but as an outside observer having only seen discourse about it in passing, there seems to be entirely too many things prone to failure when attempting to make all features consistently functional. All I _can_ say is, I really couldn't have done any of this without their tools and the years of work they put in, and I couldn't have done any of this without my PC.
I've continued trying, but the only way I seem to be able to check stat grades of these chao myself is to just raise them and do some math to check the averages and therefore the grades indirectly; obviously this method has no way to check for the invisible stats. I could, however, provide SADX save data for someone else to check in much the same way you did here; multiple trials, checking whether anything changes randomly, or per character or garden used. I'm especially curious about how the Gold, Silver, and Black chao in the adventure fields turn out. Once I finish mission mode and get 130 emblems I'll start collecting samples if anyone wants to help check... at current my current play rate it should take until about the first week of july for them to be ready.
Started collecting Chao Garden samples from SADX; this will be a labourious process, though hopefully a worthwhile one.
Oh, if you're going through that, it might be of use to let you know that as far as I know, one of the past researchers has already looked into SADX and claimed that they found that all Eggs hatched on "all versions of SADX" are 100% random. - You can choose to take that with a grain of salt since it's unclear if the GCN version is included in the "all," on top of another commenter claiming that their SADX Adventure Field Black Chao, and all subsequent Black Eggs from the Black Market, always came out as BBBBB on their copy for the GCN. Good luck if you continue!
@@Calmer_GM I don't have any way to check stat grades efficiently, nor can I check Int or Luck stat grades at all! I have to raise their stats in order to manually calculate what stat grades they _probably_ are based on stat gain averages. nine chao per save file btw. the whole reason I went ahead with designing a data collection scheme myself was because my personal gold chao came out as an ABCDE chao - or rather, CAEDB - so I thought it'd be nice to gather proper data on Int and Luck like you did here, since afaik the data on it is lacking like it was for SA2 before you made this video... but I can't do that because none of the chao viewer programs work on my PC and I don't have easy access to a device that does work. Either I'd have to ask someone in my family if I could borrow their laptop for a week, which ain't gonna happen, or else make a standalone application to analyse the files directly without the help of the game, which could take months as I have next to no real programming experience.
So... not to be that person but... Is the version of the TCG on the combo pack of Sonic Advance 1 and Pinball Party Version 1? Version 2? Both? Neither? I don't have a Sonic Advance 1 Cartridge that isn't the later combo pack.
I don't have the combo to know for certain, but I *_believe_* each game in the pack has its own Tiny Chao Garden. If the minigame in the Sonic Advance 1 TCG is Rock Paper Scissors, it should technically be Version 1.1 which removed the deleted save file Ring glitch. I'm actually interested in testing this now that you've brought it up, and will likely look into it once I have a chance.
I never knew that extra life was there on the left wtf