I really appreciate your understanding of where beginners are at; I wish more professionals would have this same level of understanding. Right now, I'm pursuing front-end development because, from my understanding, it's the easiest way to get your foot in the door of the coding industry. When I was learning and using HTML and CSS, I felt so confident, that, for the most part, I knew what I was doing, then along comes JavaScript. Learning JavaScript itself isn't the worst thing in the world; it's all these extra things that come along as a consequence of learning JavaScript that throws away that previous confidence I had. I'm not going to give up though; I've come too far. Eventually, I would like to get into back-end work, but hopefully in due time. I like your rant videos; keep them coming.
I'm not sure what "beginner" means in this context. Did you had prior programming experience or is web-dev your entry to programming in general? What I'm a bit confused about (in the video) is, that every layer (front-end, back-end, etc) is mentioned. You can implement a lot of ideas, without any backend or NPM - just a plain HTML file. For storage, just use localStorage, you want to use Vue, just use the instance version of it (no transpiling/NPM/WebPack needed) and most of the component frameworks work with just a simple css file import. For my personal projects or prototypes I still go this way, because it removes a lot of overhead. I started my career (10 years ago) with just front-end knowledge and it worked well, because I was good at a specific filed in development (so even experienced devs could learn from me, because they were back-end heavy) and the rest was covered by other developers. And the benefit is, you can learn from your colleagues (on the job) to maybe become a full-stack developer.
THIS! When you pass away the HTML/CSS "safe-space" and you start with JavaScript... the honeymoon ends; but you need to keep punching the bag, you will develop and learn skills that you never thought you had.
I get the frustration. Starting as a backend developer, I myself was a JS hater for a long time. But having used JavaScript in real projects for some years now (as there's really no good alternative), I changed my mind: User interfaces are inherently hard, specially at scale. And I am very grateful of JS and all the libraries, frameworks and services that really do help us developers get things done efficiently. We may not have solved the UI problem completely yet (and probably never will) but we sure have come a long way.
wow, so happy to see you uploading vids after all this time. I have learned a lot from you and so glad to see you in 2021 once again; keep it up. There are a lot of things you can do so, please keep going and upload vids nonstop man, all the best in advance #love_you
Man I’m glad to know that my confusion about JS is actually justifiable and shared even among experienced people. The history of JS is also very informative thanks 🙏
Love these rants Mike! So thank you. I've been 'learning' JS for years! Just thought I had pie for brains, as I just have never been able to grasp it in any logical fashion! But seeing this definitely makes me feel better :)
JS is a nightmare, TypeScript was created so the JS mess can be little bit more manageable. JS was initially created by one guy in a week or so, because he wanted to display something dynamically in a web page. It was neither planned nor designed to become the de-facto standard for all web clients. If JS was remotely close to a good language, then there wouldn't be so many attempts to fix it (talking about Flash, Silverlight, WebAssembly, Blazor-C#, Flutter-Dart, TypeScript itself etc.). Hopefully Blazor and Flutter will be the future of the Web.
mike your C# vids have helped me a lot. im getting into coding brand new to it and starting with C#. please do a video like this for C#. your feelings on it for newbies.
Mike, THANK YOU for empathizing with the struggles beginners go through when trying to learn how to code! Too many so-called 'expert' instructors, are clueless when it comes to teaching programing. This is why I appreciate the relatable analogies you use, when you teach. In too many courses, terminology is thrown around, without even defining the term: "Instantiate", "Recursion", "Polymorphism", "Single Binary", "Static vs Dynamic", "Call", are examples of vocabulary that take on a different meaning in the coding world. The 'experts' take that for granted. One can be a great coder, while being a lousy coding instructor. Worse yet, the term "an easy" programming language, or an "easy" framework, comes from the mouths of people who have coded for 10+ years; with ZERO relatability to the struggles of newbies. Keep up the great work, and we wait eagerly for your upcoming courses! I hope you would cover the GOLANG, language, and perhaps even ELIXIR & PHOENIX, if possible. Many thanks!!
I love the rant videos too even though plenty of the info is way over my head. You should do what Bucky did a few weeks back and have a big live Q and A so we can pick your brain for a few hours.
Love the rant videos, someone has to say all this out loud on a public platform. Keep making such videos, your subs will definitely go up, because people need to know the facts.
You should see a real beginner spelling letter by letter each line in a js code :D I took a break from learning how to write codes, but I'm happy to see you are back because you have an incredible way of explaining things in the most simple manner. I wish I could express myself that clean. You are an amazing teacher, so keep it up and know that whatever direction your videos take I'm sure they will be amazing too.
I agree with a lot of what you say, even the part about being a React developer and enjoying the torture of using all these tools (I like setting up webpack from scratch). But yes I started learning JavaScript, Node, and React early last year and even though I am coding and working on projects every day for most of the day I still feel like there is a lot more to learn. And with unlimited ways to implement the same functionality, is can be difficult to stay consistent. I often find myself looking at old work and wanting rearrange everything utilizing techniques that I've learned since the last time I've looked at that project. I find it funny how much time I spent struggling with trying to understand the fundamentals, and now every so often I will read some documentation or watch a video on some of the fundamental basics of JavaScript and think about how hard it was for me to understand the first time but now the concepts are so clear.
Thanks for putting this out there Mike. I've been studying JS development for 8 months and it is kicking my ass. Just when I think I get a handle on it I start learning another stack because junior devs are required to know all this shit. It's just too much. Getting buried. Possibly considering switching course and learning a different language.
We can't throw things out because people like to have choices. You can't decide what people are going to use as a developer. Every language and framework has its pros and cons.
Words! I'm gonna start my first developer job tomorrow and I'm worried so much because there are so many things to learn, the tech stuffs, the interpersonal stuffs, what the career path is that I'm gonna take. I love these ranting videos. It helps
I agree on everything you said here. I've been learning programming (JavaScript/TypeScript) for 6 months now and mannn the more I learn it, the more I realise how beginner unfriendly it is... I probably wouldn't recommend it to a friend as their first language to learn (probably better to start off with Python to learn those base programming concepts). But with all of that said - I still really love JS and do not regret that I started with it and I'm pretty sure it will remain my main language :D ^^ Can we expect to see TypeScript tutorial series? And how to work with TypeScript in React?
Finally!!!! Someone understands my dilemma. I wish there was a way to turn back time so that I could bonk the guy who came up with Node js and the other stuff.
I totally feel this way. Been working in my spare time trying to learn JavaScript and I have hit a wall. HTML and CSS were no problem and even learning the basics of JavaScript was fine. But then when I sit down and try to create something, I find that there are all these intricacies in just getting an app to run with JS and I feel defeated. Trying to push through. Mike’s vids have been very helpful. It’s nice to know that I’m not stupid and that JS implementation is very hard.
Yeah because thats the problem for most of the ppl, they watch tutorials and it seems so easy ...its like yeah i understand everything but when they want to actually build somehting all of a sudden everyhitng seems impossible! The way to do it is to try to build something after you watch a bit and no you will not understand anything and ...solve problems and then get things but it takes alot of fuken time....obviously. Im leaning PHP now for the exact reasons that the guy talked about...and after PHP i will learn java script but with php its the same , you watch you kinda think you got it and then if somebody tells you to do the most basic shyte there is, you just cannnt even think about how to do it. IF you cannot imagine the steps then you cannot do shit , and then you research , you do it with mostly copying code and then try to understand it , break the code down in pieces get one thing out of 10 then do another project , where now the code seems familiar , still you dont get it but you learn another thing on top of the 1 think that you know, copy the code make a sign up or a register and then you investigate what you just did and again and again and after 2-3 months some things start to make sense and you kinda create a process in your head , you learn to think what the fucken cormputer whats you to and hopefully after 1 year you can actually create things by yourself ! Its not an overnight process and because the concepts are weird its hard to gasp it at first!
I’m starting my coding journey by learning JavaScript & your video just so happened to be recommended this morning. I literally just created an account on treehouse yesterday & brought a few books. I love how honest you are about the complexity’s of JavaScript, I’m definitely nervous about learning but this video surprisingly motivated me to stick with it.
Don't worry, I too started three weeks ago with JavaScript and while the language still scares me to death with all it's quirks, it also has made me feel pretty darn great when I made a breakthrough.
😂I'm a beginner, it's been 4 months now and I'm leaning how to add logging using winston, handling errors and logging the exact error message... I don't know Mike, although I'm enjoying it
Maybe we could try and build a framework similar to js that makes websites more reactive. But more organized, more begginer friendly. Js will never change, so we can either learn it or try a new angle.
Thanks for that - I am learning and using Javascript at the moment in a game since 2 years ago and its my first and only programming language. I didn't really like it when I started and still don't much due to all its shortcomings...its what I know so I am sticking with it though..
I agree with your take on the situation. JavaScript is a different animal than other languages. It always feels like you are aiming at a moving target but there is a good portion of the language that is supported by almost all browsers that cover almost all of what most people need to do in the language. That is a lot of qualifiers which makes for a lot of gray areas. I do not think JS is a bad language to start out with though since there are SO MANY resources available. However, I believe we do not do a great job setting up expectations of the language and how it is different from other languages. Most resources make it seem like it is easy, which it can be if you are aware of the pitfalls. We should be honest when we are helping students 'color between the lines' and not be alarmed when they 'hit the edges' causing the whole thing to fall apart.
Look, as a begginer i gotta say first that you are the best teacher i have ever seen, that's for first, second you are pretty right,i think that (No connection to JS) i think that there's require a change in the whole world of programming, programming can be seen at first as something really difficult and complicated, and then people can be afraid to go and learn programming, like i did at first, i was really afraid until i met you. But if people will make programming a little bit more easier to learn, there will be just more people coming to this industry and they can really jump up the level of this industry. That is just my opinion
I've been building smallish websites for businesses, bloggers, personal, portfolios etc for over 20 years. I've never ever used or written a single line of javascript. I've only now in the last month or so started to learn it, mainly to see what all the fuss is about and for my own satisfaction.
This is so true! That's why I'm just focusing in vanilla JavaScript. Even doing stupid stuff like creating HTML elements, helps me to understand all the messy stuff from JS. I need to master the basics, and maybe I move on to a framework or another programming language.
I'm not good at public speaking like mike but he tell me how to tell Ideas without unknown words that is say what ever comes to your about that Topic, human are enough smart to understand bit or more. thanks man
Man, thanks for making this video. Yeah we need to come up with a different name for 'programming' in Javascript. It's not about writing code in the language, it's about making a handful of different libraries, frameworks, browsers, services, ecosystems, butterflies, stray cats...etc all work together. New programmers should definitely have an understanding of how a language like C# works in comparison IMO. Hang on to your butts, npm install.... here we go!
I love this. I've been teaching myself javascript for around 6 months now and am just starting to get into react. It's all certainly overwhelming to a degree, but I feel that I thrive in the mess and complexity of it all. The fact there's so much going on and so much to learn and so many ways of doing things excites me. But then I wonder if going headfirst into web development is the best approach. Is it inevitably stressful? Does it over time feel like one is treading water to stay afloat? Is there more "fun" areas of coding? Ultimately I love the web. I love I can see things happen instantly. I can deploy apps internationally, and I can share my work with anyone, anywhere on virtually any device.
Not just for newbies , This is a general feeling I share about the industry as a whole. Its insane how complicated and convoluted its become over the years. My first few years I got so demoralized as the their was no end game to learning development. Mike is totally right and sadly most companies just expect you to understand any of this shit.
absolutely that's why am learning strongly typed language like C# first => {self taught full stack developer } and learning angular to what it provides all in one framework and I don't mind the learning curve
I learned python n html from u and I am an absolutely beginner w no code bg but I understood those two perfectly fine. I have been learning js for more then a dozen hours and i find it kind of messy… like everything just throw together in one line😅python is much more neat to the core n elegant… it is able to keep things in the simplest logic. I might be totally wrong but. After hearing u talked abt what js was meant to do in the beginning, I kind of understand why it is so piled up. Yes, i wish there is an more integrated language system for it. Last but not least, thank you so much for developing so much tutorials! If it was not bc of ur great tutorials, i wouldn’t have kept learning! You r a great teacher! N plz come back n teach us more abt JavaScript. 😅If anyone could nail it, it would be you! Would be great if u can make following up tutorials after beginner ones!
I love your work and appreciate that how you are doing your best to tech more and more students. And can you make videos about AI, or do you have some plans about this topic for future?
My first hello world was from you. Now, after 8 months I can say yeah, often times I feel like crashing down by so many new concepts and rules that are popping up in my everyday js code. I think only time and perseverance can solve the puzzle. But for a beginner is quite often a frustrating and overwhelming experience.
There are some languages, that are transpiled to JS, though. OCaml with it's ReasonML or Elm. Probably they can be easier to wrap your head around. There is also alternatives like elixir phoenix's live view.
I'm kinda beginner too, but as a beginner who learned and used a bunch of different programming languages, believe me, this guy is telling the truth. Oh, and this is not a simple ranting, to be honest. This vid helps to understand JS and the difference btw JS and other languages. Thumbs up definitely.
So true. Seems like once through the gauntlet, Survivors lose their empathy for others struggling through the madness. Rare is the one who reflects and remembers.
I once tried to learn to program in high school back in 2000, it was a mess of compatibility issues and stupid workarounds that people just accepted. 5 months ago I decided to try and learn again, and most of the problems have been fixed to be the way I thought they should have been back then, except databases. Things will get better, and people will wonder why things were done in such silly ways for so long. Some do not like the lowing barrier to entry as it allows for more competition, these people need to find better things to value in their lives.
This problem you're talking about here is almost the same issue I have with graphics rendering APIs. Several are platform specific, some are universal but ultimately it's up to whether the end user's video card actually supports all the functions and up to what version of the API they support. So you've got multiple layers of compatibility and it means that you have to, if you build your own engine, specify to users exactly what kind of card they have to have based on OpenGL/D3D support and even then if you use D3D then you can't run it on mobile or Apple (but you probably still want to support it because it runs really well on Windows), so you've got to write for Vulkan or OpenGL, and then each API has almost entirely different rules and methods for implementing functional and shader languages and yeah... it becomes a mess.
I really like JavaScript, but this is partially why I refocused my efforts from web development to learning SQL, Python, and database development (that, and I have a potential job opportunity as a SQL dev). I’ll always enjoy doing web design in my free time, but I’m really enjoying learning database development, and it just seems like less of a headache to learn so far. I just realized that I’d rather continue learning and doing web development stuff in my free time rather than doing it as a career. That being said, I still recommend learning how to code by starting with web development.
Hey Mike, I've really been enjoying your videos and I think you have an awesome community here! What are your thoughts on a discord community? I think it would be a cool way to bring all of us beginner developers together. I think it would be awesome to share perspective and connect with each other on aspects of programming, so that we can all help each other be better! JUDGEMENT FREE haha
I thought it was just me who thought that JS was a difficult language for a beginner. I really began to think that I had to be stupid or something because it seems that everyone else gets it and are making projects but I wasn't doing that. In fact, if you don't mind, I'd like to also do a video on this subject but from an actual beginner's perspective.
To learn JavaScript you have to learn it’s dependencies. I’ve been coding in JS for a year now. First 6 months I was coding in pure JavaScript html and css and tensorflow JS until dabbing my feet into react, webpack, etc. My current stack is JS, tensorflow JS, ThreeJS, and react. I still need to learn Redux, Webpack, Typescript NextJS. It’s actually a never ending leaning process and you will still have new things coming.
I totally agree with you, Dane. Also, in my opinion, JavaScript is the easiest programming language to kick start (I can teach a 6 year old kid to write "hello, world!" in less than 5 minutes using JavaScript), and it is also the hardest programming environment/platform/tools/frameworks to master. But, we have to take it. Because, nowadays, JavaScript and JSON are everywhere, from front end to backend, to database, and even desktop applications.
Hey bro, very good video. Keep it up. I have a question for you: If JS is hard for a beginner then which programming language should pick up for their first programming language as a beginner who wants to be a web developer (Front-end or Back-end)?
yeah the gap between html and css and then to js is freaking huge.. It is the natural next step to take but seriously, i feel that gap is just way too big for most.. You spend like 6 months learning html and css max and then you get to JS which you then spend the next 5 years learning lol with all the vanilla js stuff, frameworks, and other JS tools and tricks. Personally that wall of learning JS was a huge hurdle for me for years
Beginners should also invest time to research more about the technologies they’re interested in because the ins and outs, quacks of the tech stack is not going to present itself on a plate just like that. I do agree with some of the points you’ve raised and yes the JS ecosystem is overly bloated.
In web design HTML & CSS being markup & styling language I consider JavaScript As my first programming language That was not too overwhelming for me now as compared to C language. I'm tryna get towards *OOP of JS*
Long long time ago, front end and javascript is a peaceful place. Then jquery was born, we can do tons of cool tricks. And front end still remained peaceful whereas other language dev kept fighting each other for the best programming language crown. The big day came, god sent a new baby named as node to programming planet. Since that day, the world would never be the same. Javascript dev who hid themselves for a long time suddenly stepped out of their shade. At that moment, they can do backend like other language did. And then 3 largest clans Angular, React, Vue were formed, there is an endless war in front-end.
Back in the Classic ASP & .Net 3.1 days you didn't really need to know a lot of JavaScript. We never had to deal with it much in any of the teams that I worked with. Perhaps I was lucky? Fast forward 10+ years later I've been focusing on just React to bring myself up-to-speed. I think that at some point though- later- I will need to focus strictly on JavaScript.
I'm learning to make little websites, and I'm trying so SO HARD to learn Javascript. And it's just like magic. So confusing. I'm glad someone acknowledges how hard it is. I wish there was an alternative to it that is a bit more intuitive to learn.
Mike's ranting series is actually a students encouragement session
That got me thinking like "thought it was just me who feel that way"
Programming therapy haha
Exacting my thought. Watched the video for that kind of value even though I am only learning Python.
AGREED COMPLETELY…. Actually made me go back to my computer tbh
No it’s not js is wack and will be replaced
*I love this man he cares so much for beginners like me*
Yeah. He’s dope af.
I really appreciate your understanding of where beginners are at; I wish more professionals would have this same level of understanding. Right now, I'm pursuing front-end development because, from my understanding, it's the easiest way to get your foot in the door of the coding industry. When I was learning and using HTML and CSS, I felt so confident, that, for the most part, I knew what I was doing, then along comes JavaScript. Learning JavaScript itself isn't the worst thing in the world; it's all these extra things that come along as a consequence of learning JavaScript that throws away that previous confidence I had. I'm not going to give up though; I've come too far. Eventually, I would like to get into back-end work, but hopefully in due time.
I like your rant videos; keep them coming.
Damn... my thoughts exactly. Started the same way being confident with HTML and CSS and then having everything go to hell at JS :D
I'm not sure what "beginner" means in this context. Did you had prior programming experience or is web-dev your entry to programming in general? What I'm a bit confused about (in the video) is, that every layer (front-end, back-end, etc) is mentioned. You can implement a lot of ideas, without any backend or NPM - just a plain HTML file. For storage, just use localStorage, you want to use Vue, just use the instance version of it (no transpiling/NPM/WebPack needed) and most of the component frameworks work with just a simple css file import.
For my personal projects or prototypes I still go this way, because it removes a lot of overhead. I started my career (10 years ago) with just front-end knowledge and it worked well, because I was good at a specific filed in development (so even experienced devs could learn from me, because they were back-end heavy) and the rest was covered by other developers. And the benefit is, you can learn from your colleagues (on the job) to maybe become a full-stack developer.
THIS!
When you pass away the HTML/CSS "safe-space" and you start with JavaScript... the honeymoon ends; but you need to keep punching the bag, you will develop and learn skills that you never thought you had.
Pretty much just posted this same sentiment then scrolled down and saw your post. It’s nice to know we aren’t alone feeling this way.
_The Return of the King_
Avenger of programming
I get the frustration. Starting as a backend developer, I myself was a JS hater for a long time. But having used JavaScript in real projects for some years now (as there's really no good alternative), I changed my mind: User interfaces are inherently hard, specially at scale. And I am very grateful of JS and all the libraries, frameworks and services that really do help us developers get things done efficiently. We may not have solved the UI problem completely yet (and probably never will) but we sure have come a long way.
@Kingdom Cre8tive probably 'cause devs without a job don't go telling much about it. Actually I've been out of job for quite some time now :/
wow, so happy to see you uploading vids after all this time. I have learned a lot from you and so glad to see you in 2021 once again; keep it up. There are a lot of things you can do so, please keep going and upload vids nonstop man, all the best in advance #love_you
Man I’m glad to know that my confusion about JS is actually justifiable and shared even among experienced people. The history of JS is also very informative thanks 🙏
Love these rants Mike! So thank you. I've been 'learning' JS for years! Just thought I had pie for brains, as I just have never been able to grasp it in any logical fashion! But seeing this definitely makes me feel better :)
Loving these rant videos. Clear and coherent just like your tutorials. Thanks for the insights!
oh, good so IT IS actually an inconsistent mess... i thought it was just me lmaoooo this made me feel much better
JS is a nightmare, TypeScript was created so the JS mess can be little bit more manageable. JS was initially created by one guy in a week or so, because he wanted to display something dynamically in a web page. It was neither planned nor designed to become the de-facto standard for all web clients. If JS was remotely close to a good language, then there wouldn't be so many attempts to fix it (talking about Flash, Silverlight, WebAssembly, Blazor-C#, Flutter-Dart, TypeScript itself etc.). Hopefully Blazor and Flutter will be the future of the Web.
*I love how passionate and genuine you are- I’m a big fan. I just started learning python - just for the heck of it- and I’m loving it*
Mike Dane: Knows literally every language ever written: "I don't know guys, I don't know." Yes Mike, you know.
Maybe except Rust and some few others. They just came out recently
I take your Rust and I raise you an INTERCAL
Developers:
Framework maker: they need one more, they need one more !!!!!!
💀💀💀 (also, I approve your pfp)
@@laur-unstagenameactuallyca1587 As you should 😌
mike your C# vids have helped me a lot. im getting into coding brand new to it and starting with C#. please do a video like this for C#. your feelings on it for newbies.
I love these rants. Thoughts from a professional like you are really useful for beginners like me.
Mike, THANK YOU for empathizing with the struggles beginners go through when trying to learn how to code! Too many so-called 'expert' instructors, are clueless when it comes to teaching programing. This is why I appreciate the relatable analogies you use, when you teach.
In too many courses, terminology is thrown around, without even defining the term: "Instantiate", "Recursion", "Polymorphism", "Single Binary", "Static vs Dynamic", "Call", are examples of vocabulary that take on a different meaning in the coding world. The 'experts' take that for granted. One can be a great coder, while being a lousy coding instructor.
Worse yet, the term "an easy" programming language, or an "easy" framework, comes from the mouths of people who have coded for 10+ years; with ZERO relatability to the struggles of newbies.
Keep up the great work, and we wait eagerly for your upcoming courses! I hope you would cover the GOLANG, language, and perhaps even ELIXIR & PHOENIX, if possible. Many thanks!!
Glad I found this channel. Definitely going to keep up with your videos from now on. See your soon!
I'm just glad that from learning "hello World" from you, I am at a point now that I agree with you on a rant video.
I love the rant videos too even though plenty of the info is way over my head.
You should do what Bucky did a few weeks back and have a big live Q and A so we can pick your brain for a few hours.
really needed to hear this, i'm a junior dev and i am struggling with js... keep it up mike!
Love the rant videos, someone has to say all this out loud on a public platform.
Keep making such videos, your subs will definitely go up, because people need to know the facts.
You should see a real beginner spelling letter by letter each line in a js code :D I took a break from learning how to write codes, but I'm happy to see you are back because you have an incredible way of explaining things in the most simple manner. I wish I could express myself that clean. You are an amazing teacher, so keep it up and know that whatever direction your videos take I'm sure they will be amazing too.
I agree with a lot of what you say, even the part about being a React developer and enjoying the torture of using all these tools (I like setting up webpack from scratch). But yes I started learning JavaScript, Node, and React early last year and even though I am coding and working on projects every day for most of the day I still feel like there is a lot more to learn. And with unlimited ways to implement the same functionality, is can be difficult to stay consistent. I often find myself looking at old work and wanting rearrange everything utilizing techniques that I've learned since the last time I've looked at that project.
I find it funny how much time I spent struggling with trying to understand the fundamentals, and now every so often I will read some documentation or watch a video on some of the fundamental basics of JavaScript and think about how hard it was for me to understand the first time but now the concepts are so clear.
I love these rant videos
Thanks for putting this out there Mike. I've been studying JS development for 8 months and it is kicking my ass. Just when I think I get a handle on it I start learning another stack because junior devs are required to know all this shit. It's just too much. Getting buried. Possibly considering switching course and learning a different language.
This whole industry is being unnecessarily over complicated. A few standardized languages and frameworks should be kept and throw the rest out.
in a perfect world yes, this is underrated comment.
We can't throw things out because people like to have choices. You can't decide what people are going to use as a developer. Every language and framework has its pros and cons.
@@jimtryon1560 true
@@jimtryon1560 sometimes too much choice is a bad thing.
@@Lexcepcion You should tell that to the grocery stores.
This series is amazing Mike keep up the good work!
yeah learning js and html rn for unity, keep up the rants coz i like listening to someone like you
I just love this guy❤️. Keep ranting i always watch your videos
Words! I'm gonna start my first developer job tomorrow and I'm worried so much because there are so many things to learn, the tech stuffs, the interpersonal stuffs, what the career path is that I'm gonna take. I love these ranting videos. It helps
I agree on everything you said here. I've been learning programming (JavaScript/TypeScript) for 6 months now and mannn the more I learn it, the more I realise how beginner unfriendly it is... I probably wouldn't recommend it to a friend as their first language to learn (probably better to start off with Python to learn those base programming concepts).
But with all of that said - I still really love JS and do not regret that I started with it and I'm pretty sure it will remain my main language :D ^^
Can we expect to see TypeScript tutorial series? And how to work with TypeScript in React?
Finally!!!! Someone understands my dilemma. I wish there was a way to turn back time so that I could bonk the guy who came up with Node js and the other stuff.
I totally feel this way. Been working in my spare time trying to learn JavaScript and I have hit a wall. HTML and CSS were no problem and even learning the basics of JavaScript was fine. But then when I sit down and try to create something, I find that there are all these intricacies in just getting an app to run with JS and I feel defeated. Trying to push through. Mike’s vids have been very helpful. It’s nice to know that I’m not stupid and that JS implementation is very hard.
Yeah because thats the problem for most of the ppl, they watch tutorials and it seems so easy ...its like yeah i understand everything but when they want to actually build somehting all of a sudden everyhitng seems impossible! The way to do it is to try to build something after you watch a bit and no you will not understand anything and ...solve problems and then get things but it takes alot of fuken time....obviously. Im leaning PHP now for the exact reasons that the guy talked about...and after PHP i will learn java script but with php its the same , you watch you kinda think you got it and then if somebody tells you to do the most basic shyte there is, you just cannnt even think about how to do it. IF you cannot imagine the steps then you cannot do shit , and then you research , you do it with mostly copying code and then try to understand it , break the code down in pieces get one thing out of 10 then do another project , where now the code seems familiar , still you dont get it but you learn another thing on top of the 1 think that you know, copy the code make a sign up or a register and then you investigate what you just did and again and again and after 2-3 months some things start to make sense and you kinda create a process in your head , you learn to think what the fucken cormputer whats you to and hopefully after 1 year you can actually create things by yourself ! Its not an overnight process and because the concepts are weird its hard to gasp it at first!
JS in one sentence :
"Makes me cry"
I’m starting my coding journey by learning JavaScript & your video just so happened to be recommended this morning. I literally just created an account on treehouse yesterday & brought a few books. I love how honest you are about the complexity’s of JavaScript, I’m definitely nervous about learning but this video surprisingly motivated me to stick with it.
Don't worry, I too started three weeks ago with JavaScript and while the language still scares me to death with all it's quirks, it also has made me feel pretty darn great when I made a breakthrough.
me: *started with js as a beginner and left programming as a whole*
😂I'm a beginner, it's been 4 months now and I'm leaning how to add logging using winston, handling errors and logging the exact error message... I don't know Mike, although I'm enjoying it
For those who are saying, he's back,
He came back 2 weeks ago
I too felt very difficult when I came to js, even though I knew Python, Java when I came to JS
MS Blazor is awesome for web dev. These rants are so educational! More power to you Mike!
Maybe we could try and build a framework similar to js that makes websites more reactive. But more organized, more begginer friendly.
Js will never change, so we can either learn it or try a new angle.
Your rants are awesome keep it up!
These rants are hitting on this Sunday when im feeling sh*tty at coding
Thanks for that - I am learning and using Javascript at the moment in a game since 2 years ago and its my first and only programming language. I didn't really like it when I started and still don't much due to all its shortcomings...its what I know so I am sticking with it though..
I agree with your take on the situation. JavaScript is a different animal than other languages. It always feels like you are aiming at a moving target but there is a good portion of the language that is supported by almost all browsers that cover almost all of what most people need to do in the language. That is a lot of qualifiers which makes for a lot of gray areas. I do not think JS is a bad language to start out with though since there are SO MANY resources available. However, I believe we do not do a great job setting up expectations of the language and how it is different from other languages. Most resources make it seem like it is easy, which it can be if you are aware of the pitfalls. We should be honest when we are helping students 'color between the lines' and not be alarmed when they 'hit the edges' causing the whole thing to fall apart.
Look, as a begginer i gotta say first that you are the best teacher i have ever seen, that's for first, second you are pretty right,i think that (No connection to JS) i think that there's require a change in the whole world of programming, programming can be seen at first as something really difficult and complicated, and then people can be afraid to go and learn programming, like i did at first, i was really afraid until i met you. But if people will make programming a little bit more easier to learn, there will be just more people coming to this industry and they can really jump up the level of this industry. That is just my opinion
I've been building smallish websites for businesses, bloggers, personal, portfolios etc for over 20 years.
I've never ever used or written a single line of javascript.
I've only now in the last month or so started to learn it, mainly to see what all the fuss is about and for my own satisfaction.
This is so true!
That's why I'm just focusing in vanilla JavaScript. Even doing stupid stuff like creating HTML elements, helps me to understand all the messy stuff from JS.
I need to master the basics, and maybe I move on to a framework or another programming language.
I'm not good at public speaking like mike but he tell me how to tell Ideas without unknown words that is say what ever comes to your about that Topic, human are enough smart to understand bit or more.
thanks man
I wish i had you as my teacher, you understand the point of view of beginners!
Loving these rants.
Man, thanks for making this video. Yeah we need to come up with a different name for 'programming' in Javascript. It's not about writing code in the language, it's about making a handful of different libraries, frameworks, browsers, services, ecosystems, butterflies, stray cats...etc all work together. New programmers should definitely have an understanding of how a language like C# works in comparison IMO. Hang on to your butts, npm install.... here we go!
I love this. I've been teaching myself javascript for around 6 months now and am just starting to get into react. It's all certainly overwhelming to a degree, but I feel that I thrive in the mess and complexity of it all. The fact there's so much going on and so much to learn and so many ways of doing things excites me.
But then I wonder if going headfirst into web development is the best approach. Is it inevitably stressful? Does it over time feel like one is treading water to stay afloat? Is there more "fun" areas of coding?
Ultimately I love the web. I love I can see things happen instantly. I can deploy apps internationally, and I can share my work with anyone, anywhere on virtually any device.
Not just for newbies , This is a general feeling I share about the industry as a whole. Its insane how complicated and convoluted its become over the years. My first few years I got so demoralized as the their was no end game to learning development. Mike is totally right and sadly most companies just expect you to understand any of this shit.
Due to free code camp I’m starting with Java script knowing it’s just hard will make me cry 😢 a little less lol
Same 😂
Same here 😆
Its not really that hard to be fair. Just a bit of a mess.
@@thatguynar u mean js is a mess?
you are the best man, sending lots of love
I am learning C# in preparation for Blazor.
Thanks for the video! I like this format!
I love your tutorial videos.. Been watching your C++ and python tutorials ❤️
absolutely that's why am learning strongly typed language like C# first => {self taught full stack developer } and learning angular to what it provides all in one framework and I don't mind the learning curve
I learned python n html from u and I am an absolutely beginner w no code bg but I understood those two perfectly fine. I have been learning js for more then a dozen hours and i find it kind of messy… like everything just throw together in one line😅python is much more neat to the core n elegant… it is able to keep things in the simplest logic. I might be totally wrong but. After hearing u talked abt what js was meant to do in the beginning, I kind of understand why it is so piled up. Yes, i wish there is an more integrated language system for it. Last but not least, thank you so much for developing so much tutorials! If it was not bc of ur great tutorials, i wouldn’t have kept learning! You r a great teacher! N plz come back n teach us more abt JavaScript. 😅If anyone could nail it, it would be you! Would be great if u can make following up tutorials after beginner ones!
Mike! You did a bloody good job at teaching us though! Good video mate, hope you're well from Syd!
Greg!!
Woah! Man, welcome back, it's been a while!
Agree about JS, I had the same problem so I start coding in C# :)
I love your work and appreciate that how you are doing your best to tech more and more students.
And can you make videos about AI, or do you have some plans about this topic for future?
i really love this rant series
My first hello world was from you. Now, after 8 months I can say yeah, often times I feel like crashing down by so many new concepts and rules that are popping up in my everyday js code. I think only time and perseverance can solve the puzzle. But for a beginner is quite often a frustrating and overwhelming experience.
There are some languages, that are transpiled to JS, though. OCaml with it's ReasonML or Elm. Probably they can be easier to wrap your head around.
There is also alternatives like elixir phoenix's live view.
Mike any thoughts of making podcast? This rants are so cool. I would listen all day, everyday.
I'm kinda beginner too, but as a beginner who learned and used a bunch of different programming languages, believe me, this guy is telling the truth.
Oh, and this is not a simple ranting, to be honest. This vid helps to understand JS and the difference btw JS and other languages. Thumbs up definitely.
So true. Seems like once through the gauntlet, Survivors lose their empathy for others struggling through the madness. Rare is the one who reflects and remembers.
"Thank you Mike!"
I once tried to learn to program in high school back in 2000, it was a mess of compatibility issues and stupid workarounds that people just accepted. 5 months ago I decided to try and learn again, and most of the problems have been fixed to be the way I thought they should have been back then, except databases. Things will get better, and people will wonder why things were done in such silly ways for so long. Some do not like the lowing barrier to entry as it allows for more competition, these people need to find better things to value in their lives.
I love these ranting videos! And I'd also like to know your opinion about c++;
Great Mike! Greetings from Berlin!
This problem you're talking about here is almost the same issue I have with graphics rendering APIs. Several are platform specific, some are universal but ultimately it's up to whether the end user's video card actually supports all the functions and up to what version of the API they support. So you've got multiple layers of compatibility and it means that you have to, if you build your own engine, specify to users exactly what kind of card they have to have based on OpenGL/D3D support and even then if you use D3D then you can't run it on mobile or Apple (but you probably still want to support it because it runs really well on Windows), so you've got to write for Vulkan or OpenGL, and then each API has almost entirely different rules and methods for implementing functional and shader languages and yeah... it becomes a mess.
thank you for share your thoughts 😁👍
1:27 So that's why it was originally made in 10 days. That explains so much!
A very reasonable video and questions in it, like it
Thank you, Mike!
I really like JavaScript, but this is partially why I refocused my efforts from web development to learning SQL, Python, and database development (that, and I have a potential job opportunity as a SQL dev). I’ll always enjoy doing web design in my free time, but I’m really enjoying learning database development, and it just seems like less of a headache to learn so far.
I just realized that I’d rather continue learning and doing web development stuff in my free time rather than doing it as a career.
That being said, I still recommend learning how to code by starting with web development.
Hey Mike, I've really been enjoying your videos and I think you have an awesome community here! What are your thoughts on a discord community? I think it would be a cool way to bring all of us beginner developers together. I think it would be awesome to share perspective and connect with each other on aspects of programming, so that we can all help each other be better! JUDGEMENT FREE haha
These rants are awesome.
I thought it was just me who thought that JS was a difficult language for a beginner. I really began to think that I had to be stupid or something because it seems that everyone else gets it and are making projects but I wasn't doing that. In fact, if you don't mind, I'd like to also do a video on this subject but from an actual beginner's perspective.
These new videos are so cool :D
To learn JavaScript you have to learn it’s dependencies.
I’ve been coding in JS for a year now. First 6 months I was coding in pure JavaScript html and css and tensorflow JS until dabbing my feet into react, webpack, etc. My current stack is JS, tensorflow JS, ThreeJS, and react.
I still need to learn Redux, Webpack, Typescript NextJS. It’s actually a never ending leaning process and you will still have new things coming.
I totally agree with you, Dane. Also, in my opinion, JavaScript is the easiest programming language to kick start (I can teach a 6 year old kid to write "hello, world!" in less than 5 minutes using JavaScript), and it is also the hardest programming environment/platform/tools/frameworks to master. But, we have to take it. Because, nowadays, JavaScript and JSON are everywhere, from front end to backend, to database, and even desktop applications.
your right... Basic goto statements made a lot more sense
Hey bro, very good video. Keep it up. I have a question for you: If JS is hard for a beginner then which programming language should pick up for their first programming language as a beginner who wants to be a web developer (Front-end or Back-end)?
Thank you so much Mike, for the very important points about JavaScript
yeah the gap between html and css and then to js is freaking huge.. It is the natural next step to take but seriously, i feel that gap is just way too big for most.. You spend like 6 months learning html and css max and then you get to JS which you then spend the next 5 years learning lol with all the vanilla js stuff, frameworks, and other JS tools and tricks. Personally that wall of learning JS was a huge hurdle for me for years
Beginners should also invest time to research more about the technologies they’re interested in because the ins and outs, quacks of the tech stack is not going to present itself on a plate just like that.
I do agree with some of the points you’ve raised and yes the JS ecosystem is overly bloated.
Dude a video a day is alot of content and I really, REALLY like your content so please don't burn yourself out
In web design HTML & CSS being markup & styling language I consider JavaScript As my first programming language
That was not too overwhelming for me now as compared to C language. I'm tryna get towards *OOP of JS*
Hey Mike, I want to get into mobile dev when I graduate from uni. Shall I learn flutter/dart or RN/JS to get a job?
Long long time ago, front end and javascript is a peaceful place. Then jquery was born, we can do tons of cool tricks. And front end still remained peaceful whereas other language dev kept fighting each other for the best programming language crown. The big day came, god sent a new baby named as node to programming planet. Since that day, the world would never be the same. Javascript dev who hid themselves for a long time suddenly stepped out of their shade. At that moment, they can do backend like other language did. And then 3 largest clans Angular, React, Vue were formed, there is an endless war in front-end.
I miss days when you need jQuery, you had to add to your html's head.
Yes, things are overwhelming complicated today.
Back in the Classic ASP & .Net 3.1 days you didn't really need to know a lot of JavaScript. We never had to deal with it much in any of the teams that I worked with. Perhaps I was lucky? Fast forward 10+ years later I've been focusing on just React to bring myself up-to-speed. I think that at some point though- later- I will need to focus strictly on JavaScript.
Thanks for your understanding. So now what is the way forward, so what do beginners like us do?
I'm learning to make little websites, and I'm trying so SO HARD to learn Javascript. And it's just like magic. So confusing. I'm glad someone acknowledges how hard it is. I wish there was an alternative to it that is a bit more intuitive to learn.