Rather than get butt hurt, you need to listen to his argument. He’s basically saying that in order for alien visitation to be true, it requires a technology that we dont not believe is scientifically possible. This is not a contentious argument; warp drives or similar require a change in the laws of physics
Thank you, finally someone who gets it. We would need to discover how to manipulate the Laws of the Universe itself to make this stuff possible. That isn't saying that it's impossible-just that we don't have the faintest idea how to do that... yet. (And if we could then we would be gods. And since any real gods that may exist don't seem to take great interest in us, aliens with the same capabilities probably wouldn't either... but if they do then we're waiting.)
@I-am-Hrut It may not be as improbable in a billion years of scientific advancement. It was once "impossible" according to known science to do many things we take for granted now. I'm not saying likely but it seems offhand to dismiss it completely.
@I-am-Hrut I'm an atheist. Not sure what you think I believe. I also think Roswell, Skinwalker, reverse engineering, abductions etc are all baloney. Maybe you have faith of sorts. Faith that science on earth now could predict what science from a super advanced civilisation could possibly ever achieve. ( If they exist - who knows ? I don't think anyone including Lawrence denies the possibility).
Not feeling attacked. Just surprised actually, that a person so intelligent would look at it with so many limitations and stipulations. Humans are dumb apes barely out of a cave. We would have no idea what methods of travel an advanced species would use to come to Earth, or their reasons. It's pure speculation postulated as scientific facts.
@@Douche.of.the.Dabbleverse Alienism is when fully-grown adults unironically use "Aliens work in mysterious ways" and "Aliens of the Gaps" arguments to avoid answering any scientifically-valid criticisms of their clearly dogmatic and hence religiously-motivated beliefs.
It's really simple and obvious, high tech alien civilizations are so rare and space is so vast that there are none close enough to get to us without imaginary magi-tech that doesn't exist in reality.
UFOs are all products of the imagination. People think it's like ships at sea coming across oceans when it's absolutely nothing like that. Nothing is coming and there's probably nothing out there anyway.
It isn't just the distance, it's the time. Distant intelligent life (assuming it does exist) would not be currently aware of human intelligence, unless that life is within, say, about 150 light years (the first radio signals). Any distance further (and probably most that is less than that, since we didn't start aiming those signals into space until about a half century ago) would not have any idea we are here. Those presumed intelligent civilizations are permanently blocked from us by time. And the whole "alien visitor" argument is human centered. It is the hubris that we are so important that beings would cross space and time to probe some butts and molest some cows that drives the whole narrative.
Drones can do all kinds of stuff that normal aircraft can't. That's what most of the sightings in the 90s and 00s were, the first small RC drones. People thought they were going much faster than they were, because they were thinking they were big things high in the sky, when in fact, they were small things low in the sky. *Insert the meme from father ted about the cows *
The UFO I saw passed directly overhead of me and was travelling in a high aspect ratio, sine-like wave path. The turns at the apex and troughs of the wave were too abrupt to be made at any speed high enough to be aerodynamically sustainable for any fixed-wing craft, and as far as I know quad-copter type drones did not exist at that time. The wave form had an angular amplitude that was definitely over 20 degrees, a very big sweep. The UFO manifested as a brilliant light, requiring a substantial power source. This was around 1971, long before any type of drone was really a thing anyway. Also, the craft emerged from over the crest of the Bitterroot Mountains in the middle of the night in the dead of winter at sub-zero temperatures. My altitude on Little Saint Joe Mountain was about 5000 feet, but the object had to be at over 8000 ft. given the mountain ridges that it passed over. It emerged from the Bitterroots, crossed the Bitterroot Valley, and disappeared by crossing over the Sapphire divide when last seen. It traversed a distance of over 30 miles from its location at first sighting to its disappearance. The visual angular amplitude of the wave did not appreciably change from where it was overhead to where it disappeared 30 miles away. So, it wasn't something little close up. It was silent in the dead silence of a crystal-cold, absolutely still night, and so was not powered by a gasoline engine. One could have heard a tiny engine for miles in those conditions, and it passed directly above me. So, you're telling me that some experienced, very tough ski mountaineer was out in the arctic-like temperatures, deep snow, darkness, and extreme terrain of the winter-time alpine Bitterroot Wilderness after midnight, flying a battery operated drone that functioned for over 30 miles in sub-zero temperatures, directing it on a trajectory of a regular hair-pin wave form that would have at least doubled the actual path distance to over 60 miles, and the drone accomplished this flight path in less than a minute, all while blasting an omni-directional light that could be seen from over 30 miles away, and this mountaineering operator didn't even give a sh*t that he had sent his super-high-performance, way-ahead-of-its-time drone irretrievably away beyond radio contact for any normal drone system from the Bitterroot Mountains to the far side of the Sapphire Range? Did he do that to impress me, whom he couldn't have even known about? It was only dumb luck that I was even outside my cabin taking a pee just in time to see this thing. Try commenting on something about which you have an actual clue. Drones are not a feasible explanation for many UFO sightings that have been made and reported by many serious people.
My take away from this is that Mass, Energy, Time, and Expense are the biggest hurdles that seem insurmountable for interstellar travel. Civilization that could get past those would essentially be gods. So the whole believing “UFO’s are real” is not much different than believing God exists. It’s a modern day religion.
An advanced species, is infinitely different to a God. Advanced or not, they are living beings, and we're living proof that can exist. God's... Not so much.
@@I-am-Hrut They say lots of things that they want to be true, but don't add up on investigation. We can look around in almost any direction and see life. Nobody alive has ever seen Jesus. It's debatable as to whether anybody ever did. So not the same.
@@bowser515 I'm an atheist but even I know there is far more evidence of a historical 2nd Temple Jewish Apocalyptic rabbi named Yeshua roaming atound the Galilee circa. 30 CE than there is for Alien visitations.
I don't disagree with Lawrence fundamentally. I'm almost certain that life must exist out there somewhere. But I don't think Aliens have ever visited Earth, and he's of course correct about the unimaginably large scale of the voids between stars. However, he's looking at it entirely logically, and reality isn't always so simple. First off, an Alien race advanced enough to get here will likely have harnessed the power of their star. I doubt they have to consider financial issues with regards to travel expenses. The aerodynamic part didn't make too much sense as again, a race that advanced could probably build a vessel that could alter shape etc to suit it's environment (IE, form a more aerodynamic shape for I'm atmosphere flight) And could have protective flight suits/systems etc that we can't even comprehend (imagine showing a modern G suit to a peasant in the dark ages) Also being advanced really shouldn't mean a lack of interest in "lower" forms of life. There are countless reasons as to why. They could simply be incapable of thinking like us in their advanced state, that would no doubt be interesting to observe. They could be interested in music, or art of different cultures. They could be checking in to make sure we don't kill ourselves, or to see if we have stopped bowing down and talking to imaginary gods. But anybody traveling the stars no doubt has an inherent curiosity. We take interest in bugs. Most of us in a kind way. Let's hope that if we do ever encounter them. That we don't meet the galactic phsycos who likes to pull their wings off 😬
Or make baseless assumptions with no evidence. Most people who have seen or had any interactions with a UFO have never reported it. I saw a UFO in 1982 over Lake Mead at a close range, along with two other witnesses. I never reported it.
@@starsixtyseven195 ... considering that he didn't use themat word and you used quotation marks around it like you think he did, I'm guessing you might have a story you'd like to share with the class today?
I don't understand the cost argument. If a civilization is so advanced to be able to travel the universe, I feel like cost would be the last consideration of why or why not.
I like the premise in Asimov's "Foundation". Where it is millions of years in the future and there are lots of civilizations throughout the galaxy but they are all human.
There is a potential problem and paradox... that as large, highly complex, resource hungry and environmentally dependent critters - We human beings might not be the most suitable beings for slow long distance intergalactic space travel and exploration! So ironically while we might be the smart and clever critters to design, build and initially pilot the spaceships needed to escape earth.... it is far more likely that either the AI, or computers, robots and/or or more humble sturdy biology that would survive such intergalactic space journeys Which might also apply to aliens coming from their hosts too!?
ETs would have to have a planet with materials necessary for capable craft, and such planets may be astonishingly rare. Were it not for this on Earth, plus the occurrence of two carboniferous eras, we wouldn't be capable either. You can't build spacecraft out of wood and plants.
usually agree with him about stuff, and he is obviously right that as far as we know these laws exist across the universe and cannot be broken and therefore space travel of any significant distance is impossible. Having said that i would be interested to see what 3rd and 4th generation AI and quantum computing think about that, the same laws may still apply but maybe a workaround is conceivably possible. my real problem with his argument is the shape of the craft, why a disk? its brilliant here on earth but makes no sense for the majority of the journey where it may as well be shaped like a Saint Bernard dog. Fine, odd shapes work in space but when you get into Earths atmosphere the Saint Bernard design is going to experience a few teething problems, so i think a disk would be the right call, disappointing really
'I'm going to say it wouldn't be reasonable for aliens to do (this or that).' And I'm going to say the speaker is speculating from an anthropomorphic perspective about critters of which he has (presumably) little or no experience. Probably the latter.
Estimates range from multiple millions to trillions of species on Earth; How many do what Sapiens does? Now if there's a planet out there in a galaxy far far away, and there's life on that planet, what are the odds that life is doing what Sapiens is doing, and not something the trillion non-Sapiense species here on Earth are doing? Or doing something so different that we can't even think about it?
First of all, if you're talking about a trillion species on Earth, you're talking about the vast majority of them being microbial, single-celled species. Be that as it may, if there are a trillion species on another planet, what are the odds that just one of them will develop into a highly intelligent form? That doesn't seem so far-fetched to me. Now, consider that the transition from some rather ordinary vertebrates to humans took only a few million years and that there have been billions of years in which there have been planets capable of supporting life-forms similar to Earth life-forms in a general sense. Abstract calculations have indicated that any technologically intelligent forms out there are likely to be many millions of years older than us on average. So, what if they are doing something so different from us that we can't imagine it? That's not an indication that they wouldn't come here to check us out, no matter how mysterious their purposes might be. Right now, using spectroscopic analysis, we're checking out the atmospheric composition of planets many light years away, orbiting other stars, for indications that those planets might harbor life. Conversely, distant intelligent forms may easily have known for millions of years that Earth probably harbors life. Given the millions of years available, it's entirely possible for such intelligent forms to have already reached us with some kind of exploratory mission, whether in the form of some kind of robot probes or traveling habitats containing members of their species. This is possible without the necessity of travel speeds anywhere close to the light speed limit. Also, if an alien species had been sending out colonizing expeditions to suitable planets for a few million years or so, and those colonies had been leap-frogging onward, sending out their own colonizing projects, calculations have shown that they could easily have saturated the galaxy by now. There might well be colonies within a relatively short hop to our Solar System. I wouldn't worry about needing to fear them. Their own natural environmental needs are not likely to be compatible with the ecosystem of Earth. As far as resources go, there are metals, hydrocarbons, energy sources, and anything else they might want all over the galaxy without their needing to take anything away from other life forms, and there are tons of non-biotic planets of appropriate size and character that they could terraform to suit their own needs. If they are checking us out, I suspect that their motives might be more in the nature of scientific and philosophical curiosity than imperial conquest. There is a YT channel produced by a guy named Isaac Arthur who speculates analytically about topics like this. He's brilliant, and he's got a ton of already produced videos. His speculations are enormously more sophisticated than bozos like you and I are ever going to come up with. He seems to have a pretty wide and deep grasp of math, physics, and the sciences in general. He's definitely worth checking out. Just type "Isaac Arthur" into YT search.
@donnievance1942 And what if we are the freaks of nature, an error, invasive species doomed to extinction by our own hand - hence the nuclear weapons and endless wars and destruction. And what if the microorganisms are the way to go for life? And what if cockroaches are the master species on Earth? And what if..?
14:00 Dude really doesn't understand how basically impossible it would be to even aim something that accurately across 5 lightyears of space. Let alone trying to calculate the orbits of a planet around another star 75,000 years in the future so that the probe actually crashes into it. It would be like hitting a hole in one at St Andrews on the 3rd hole, taking your tee shot from the moon, just to get the probe into orbit around the star.
You're assuming that the craft would operate as a simple ballistic missile, like a bullet. Our own missions to the moon or other planets don't even operate that way. We aim them, fire them off, and then make course corrections as they near their targets. All you have to do is get the initial ballistic trajectory to within the general vicinity of the target and then fine tune it on the approach with the aid of imaging technology. That was one of the dumber comments I've seen in a while.
And smart people would still rather sound like both of them than any of you guys. Sorry that the "God works in mysterious ways" argument is just as bad as the "Aliens work in mysterious ways" argument. But what do you want Krauss to do? Concede to bad arguments?
@@dankelly7712 He’s always been that way-someone who thinks he knows it all and dismisses anyone who disagrees or sees things differently. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to realize that people like this are just as ignorant and uninterested in understanding the nature of reality as the religious fanatics they tend to debate with.
@@keffbarnAs you've got older , wishful thinking has taken over common sense. As I've got older these explanations make 100% sense compared to the teenage day dreams of Disneyland wishful thinking. The more we find out , the more it seems possible we are alone in this galaxy .
@whysoserious8666 I'm not familiar with the quote. But I am familiar with a large amount of antisemitic comments made towards Jewish people. A name like Krauss would be enough. You think I'm the one being hyperbolic, I believe it's you claiming everything is antisemitic. Sigh...
what interest would they have in us? what better way to entertain themselves than listening to blockheaded jibberish? they can go faster than light and maybe even been doing so for thousands of years (a statistical burp in galactic time). probably not too concerned with things like costs or aerodynamics.
But [what we call] physical objects cannot go faster than light. Maybe their 'stuff' doesn't fit our definition of physical object, at least when it is travelling. It was hundreds of years between Newton and Einstein. Now put a few millennia in there after Einstein and who knows.
What it does do is explain the why behind what he is saying. It’s not just a luck guess. Why we don’t know “everything” we do know something’s. And those things we do know quite well underpin everything in our modern lives.
@ I understand what you are saying, but to say that what we know we know quite well is another way of saying that we are very familiar with and confident in what we already believe. But what we do not yet know is obviously unknown, and so when presented with phenomena we can’t explain per what we already know, it is an opportunity to go forward.
@ without definitive evidence you have to deduce based on what you do know based on the claim. I’d agree if we actually had physical objects that the scientific community could study. So far no has actually been present. Claims and argument have been made but that’s all that’s been presented in lieu of evidence.
@ But sightings by trained observers of what are obviously craft, photos, radar and ground traces, and accounts from high level insiders are all evidence. Waiting for a flying saucer to land on the MIT campus is not good proactive science.
I tilt to the view that they are NOT traveling far to get here. Lending my thoughts that they have been here this whole time. I ask, when facing global extinction event would an advanced NHI seek to terraform another planet, or would they bunker up in the oceans and mountains? These beings may have been hiding here this whole time. Remerging from their bunkers from time to time to check on the surface dwellers. Would explain aerodynamic ships and historical sightings and events.
Ridiculous. He's assuming aliens would have the same tech as humans. They would have to use something that's more like teleportation because the speed of light is waaaayyy too slow.
@AzimuthAviation scientist have recently teleported photons in lab experiments. To think that we have a complete understanding of what's possible currently is naive I think. No telling what a civilization 1 million years more advanced than humans might achieve
yes you are. Krauss isn't assuming anything. He is _responding_ to the people who make these assumptions-an assumption made by many people (especially the people who make fake footage of little flying saucers in the sky). Of course, Dr. Krauss would consider other hypothetical modes of interstellar transportation more viable if there was any evidence of them being used. Why don't you find some, publish your findings, and prove him wrong? Look, Travis, you're probably just a well-meaning guy who watched a little too much TV as a kid. But believing that little green aliens really abduct rural farmers to probe them and play pictionary in their corn fields is just as much of a religion as Christianity or Hinduism is. If they're really here, prove it. Until then, let's keep the wild speculation to Hollywood, kay?
@@RelyeaRonnie We've had basic steam engines since the ancient Greeks. We've invented plenty of other turbines throughout history too-windmills, watermills, handmills, etc... We've harnessed rotational power for a lot of stuff for a long time-bow drills, Archimedes' screw, winches, windlasses, sewing machines, etc. We've also know about petrolium-based propellants too (bitumen, naptha, etc.). All of the underlying principles of an internal combustion engine could've been easily explained to someone well-versed in the science and engineering of his day (like Leonardo DaVinci) and he would've easily been able to make the extensions necessary to understand it. So this is more like a group of peasants laughing at Leonardo when he politely tries to tell them how internal combustion engines have to work and why they can't work without inventung sparkplugs or diesel fuel first-but they simply do not understand how much they do not understand and so they say "must be angels".
I have SEEN something that could have been a UFO. Almost 99% a UFO ! These aliens would be as curious about earthlings as humans are interested in aliens !!!
Or it could've been any number of far more-likely phenomenon rather than the least likely one-little green men on safari. Look, this is a religion for you folks. It's dogma, superstition, faith, and a whole lot of copium. Nobody doubts that _IF_ aliens could come to Earth, _THEN_ they may have some equivalent to human biologists who go out into the rainforests to look for new worms or something. The reason why these super smart guys always say that aliens wouldn't want to have anything to do with us is because they're looking at you and thinking the same thing.
@@John-xd6ns You don't get it. Alienism is a religion for these guys. They buy "Aliens work in mysterious ways" or "Aliens of the gaps" arguments wholecloth. If you asked them and they were honest with you, then they would say "we don't know or understand all the physics" actually means "we don't know or understand _any_ of the physics"
@@davidlamb7524 No, he didn't say that. Go back and rewatch that part. He said even if we grant that they could have some magical material that could withstand 700g, that all the aliens inside would still die due to the g-forces. You didn't watch the whole video and it shows.
@I-am-Hrut Ok but he said they wouldn't survive right ? He doesn't know that they wouldn't have developed some protection from that, given a billion years or more advanced science.
@@davidlamb7524 He also doesn't know if unicorns and fairies exist on some magical hypothetical planet where gumdrops grow on trees and fudge rivers flow through the land. So Candyland is a real place and we should all start acting as if it those who believe in it are sane? Get real! The short answer is that if you're willing to violate every law of phyics to "prove aliens came here" then you're no better than a religious fanatic using the "God of the gaps" or "God works in mysterious ways" arguments so why should anyone take you seriously?
Kraus creates a straw argument thst the aliens wouldn't be interested in us because they had already encountered thousands or tens of thousands of civilizations like us already. If so, where are all those civilizations. On the other hand, if we like them are very rare, they would have enormous curiosty about us. I have very little curiosity about what Krauss thinks. He is an academic egomaniac who used his celebrity to get laid.😂
1. Nope. He's directly responding to Fermi's Paradox. Also, if they existed, then they probably destroyed themselves like we're in the process of doing to ourselves. Additionally, life (as we know it) requires at least a few ingredients (like large heat sinks of liquid water and locally "free energy" from a stable nearby star to be Thermodynamically selected for). Common enough ingredients, sure. But we've also narrowly survived like 5 mass-extinction events ourselves so we may just have been lucky or that might be normal. We don't know. 2. I agree. Even if life is not that rare, there are probably some aliens on the spectrum who would enjoy a safari visit to Earth or something. Sure, w/e. Would be nice if they were a bit more eco friendly though. Guess they prefer the hand's off approach to maintaining a ecosystem. Don't want those cute humans looking for handouts, now. 😂 3. Get a real hobby.
@I-am-Hrut You didn't get that I was pointing out the fallacy in his argument. First he claims we see no aliens because we are not that interesting and then he says that we are not interesting because they have seen so many other civilizations throughout the galaxy. That is not a plausible theory. Oh, and he puts out a book targetted at the dumb masses that the universe was made from nothing and then the dumb masses inform him that quantum fields are not nothing. Oh, and he was a friend of Jeffrey Epstein to boot. He was forced to leave Arizona State University.
Aliens have been visiting this planet for a long time. At this point, most people already understand that, and what we're concerned with is: What are they using to get here? Once you figure that part out, you figure out pretty quickly why it isn't ubiquitously known by the public.
@itranscendencei7964 No, "most people" don't think that. Most largely-uneducated, Hollywood-obsessed _Americans_ don't even think that (according to a 2022 poll, only 34% do). Alienism is just another new age religion for young neckbeards struggling to cope with the decline of traditional religious hierarchies. Time to come back down to Earth, space cowboy.
@markkjacobson Not even close. All of the science papers and patents that show what I am saying to be 100% true are publicly available. You just have to be able to make sense of it. Ben Rich: "We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of god to ever get them out to benefit humanity." Richard Feynman: "One teacup of empty space contains enough energy to boil all the world's oceans." Rich is a former director of Lockheed Skunkworks, so he would definitely be ready in on a program if he is literally running it, and Feynman is one of the greatest physicists in the past 100 years. The information and evidence is out there, so it's up to you to decide what you believe and what you ignore.
@markkjacobson @markkjacobson Not even close. All of the science papers and patents that show what I am saying to be 100% true are publicly available. You just have to be able to make sense of it. Ben Rich: "We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of god to ever get them out to benefit humanity." Richard Feynman: "One teacup of empty space contains enough energy to boil all the world's oceans." The information and evidence is out there, so it's up to you what you decide to believe and what you ignore.
Not even close. All of the science papers and patents that show what I am saying to be 100% true are publicly available. You just have to be able to make sense of it. Ben Rich: "We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of god to ever get them out to benefit humanity." Richard Feynman: "One teacup of empty space contains enough energy to boil all the world's oceans." The information and evidence is out there, so it's up to you what you decide to believe and what you ignore.
Full discussion here: ua-cam.com/video/4fMbE8YAhKI/v-deo.htmlsi=Fs0RaLN5gjdwdNN6
Rather than get butt hurt, you need to listen to his argument. He’s basically saying that in order for alien visitation to be true, it requires a technology that we dont not believe is scientifically possible.
This is not a contentious argument; warp drives or similar require a change in the laws of physics
Thank you, finally someone who gets it. We would need to discover how to manipulate the Laws of the Universe itself to make this stuff possible. That isn't saying that it's impossible-just that we don't have the faintest idea how to do that... yet. (And if we could then we would be gods. And since any real gods that may exist don't seem to take great interest in us, aliens with the same capabilities probably wouldn't either... but if they do then we're waiting.)
@I-am-Hrut It may not be as improbable in a billion years of scientific advancement.
It was once "impossible" according to known science to do many things we take for granted now. I'm not saying likely but it seems offhand to dismiss it completely.
@@davidlamb7524 Please keep your private religious views to yourself when the grown ups are speaking.
@I-am-Hrut I'm an atheist. Not sure what you think I believe.
I also think Roswell, Skinwalker, reverse engineering, abductions etc are all baloney.
Maybe you have faith of sorts.
Faith that science on earth now could predict what science from a super advanced civilisation could possibly ever achieve.
( If they exist - who knows ? I don't think anyone including Lawrence denies the possibility).
Still a weak argument. Assuming that human science and knowledge encompass everything is profoundly ignorant.
Holy crap the amount of conspiracy theorists feeling attacked in the comment
@@temmaxtemma9570 You should see the comments on the full video. Insane. Alienism has become a secular religion.
Not feeling attacked. Just surprised actually, that a person so intelligent would look at it with so many limitations and stipulations.
Humans are dumb apes barely out of a cave. We would have no idea what methods of travel an advanced species would use to come to Earth, or their reasons.
It's pure speculation postulated as scientific facts.
You guys don't see how calling them conspiracy theorists or referring to their opinion as an ism or a religion might feel a bit like an attack?😂
@@Douche.of.the.Dabbleverse Okay... so what?
@@Douche.of.the.Dabbleverse Alienism is when fully-grown adults unironically use "Aliens work in mysterious ways" and "Aliens of the Gaps" arguments to avoid answering any scientifically-valid criticisms of their clearly dogmatic and hence religiously-motivated beliefs.
It's really simple and obvious, high tech alien civilizations are so rare and space is so vast that there are none close enough to get to us without imaginary magi-tech that doesn't exist in reality.
UFOs are all products of the imagination. People think it's like ships at sea coming across oceans when it's absolutely nothing like that. Nothing is coming and there's probably nothing out there anyway.
@@brianmonks8657 Alternatively, the first/last "intelligent life" had to develop somewhere. Why not here?
11:10 So, you send a Sophon like the Three Body Problem. I think that writer was on to something.
It isn't just the distance, it's the time. Distant intelligent life (assuming it does exist) would not be currently aware of human intelligence, unless that life is within, say, about 150 light years (the first radio signals). Any distance further (and probably most that is less than that, since we didn't start aiming those signals into space until about a half century ago) would not have any idea we are here.
Those presumed intelligent civilizations are permanently blocked from us by time.
And the whole "alien visitor" argument is human centered. It is the hubris that we are so important that beings would cross space and time to probe some butts and molest some cows that drives the whole narrative.
Drones can do all kinds of stuff that normal aircraft can't. That's what most of the sightings in the 90s and 00s were, the first small RC drones. People thought they were going much faster than they were, because they were thinking they were big things high in the sky, when in fact, they were small things low in the sky.
*Insert the meme from father ted about the cows *
The aliens probably went to Craggy Island and ran away.
The UFO I saw passed directly overhead of me and was travelling in a high aspect ratio, sine-like wave path. The turns at the apex and troughs of the wave were too abrupt to be made at any speed high enough to be aerodynamically sustainable for any fixed-wing craft, and as far as I know quad-copter type drones did not exist at that time. The wave form had an angular amplitude that was definitely over 20 degrees, a very big sweep. The UFO manifested as a brilliant light, requiring a substantial power source. This was around 1971, long before any type of drone was really a thing anyway. Also, the craft emerged from over the crest of the Bitterroot Mountains in the middle of the night in the dead of winter at sub-zero temperatures.
My altitude on Little Saint Joe Mountain was about 5000 feet, but the object had to be at over 8000 ft. given the mountain ridges that it passed over. It emerged from the Bitterroots, crossed the Bitterroot Valley, and disappeared by crossing over the Sapphire divide when last seen. It traversed a distance of over 30 miles from its location at first sighting to its disappearance. The visual angular amplitude of the wave did not appreciably change from where it was overhead to where it disappeared 30 miles away. So, it wasn't something little close up.
It was silent in the dead silence of a crystal-cold, absolutely still night, and so was not powered by a gasoline engine. One could have heard a tiny engine for miles in those conditions, and it passed directly above me.
So, you're telling me that some experienced, very tough ski mountaineer was out in the arctic-like temperatures, deep snow, darkness, and extreme terrain of the winter-time alpine Bitterroot Wilderness after midnight, flying a battery operated drone that functioned for over 30 miles in sub-zero temperatures, directing it on a trajectory of a regular hair-pin wave form that would have at least doubled the actual path distance to over 60 miles, and the drone accomplished this flight path in less than a minute, all while blasting an omni-directional light that could be seen from over 30 miles away, and this mountaineering operator didn't even give a sh*t that he had sent his super-high-performance, way-ahead-of-its-time drone irretrievably away beyond radio contact for any normal drone system from the Bitterroot Mountains to the far side of the Sapphire Range?
Did he do that to impress me, whom he couldn't have even known about? It was only dumb luck that I was even outside my cabin taking a pee just in time to see this thing. Try commenting on something about which you have an actual clue. Drones are not a feasible explanation for many UFO sightings that have been made and reported by many serious people.
And all the sighting s before then...?
My take away from this is that Mass, Energy, Time, and Expense are the biggest hurdles that seem insurmountable for interstellar travel. Civilization that could get past those would essentially be gods. So the whole believing “UFO’s are real” is not much different than believing God exists. It’s a modern day religion.
An advanced species, is infinitely different to a God. Advanced or not, they are living beings, and we're living proof that can exist. God's... Not so much.
@@bowser515 Christians would just say "Jesus was a living being and God, checkmate."
@@I-am-Hrut They say lots of things that they want to be true, but don't add up on investigation. We can look around in almost any direction and see life. Nobody alive has ever seen Jesus. It's debatable as to whether anybody ever did. So not the same.
@@bowser515 I'm an atheist but even I know there is far more evidence of a historical 2nd Temple Jewish Apocalyptic rabbi named Yeshua roaming atound the Galilee circa. 30 CE than there is for Alien visitations.
@@bowser515 ...
Aliens so advanced that they can traverse the universe at will but get to the earth then crash.they crash a lot don't they.how many is it now
@@stevenpower811 And how come they only care about Earth? Presumably, we should've been able to see them exploring other planets.
I don't disagree with Lawrence fundamentally. I'm almost certain that life must exist out there somewhere. But I don't think Aliens have ever visited Earth, and he's of course correct about the unimaginably large scale of the voids between stars.
However, he's looking at it entirely logically, and reality isn't always so simple. First off, an Alien race advanced enough to get here will likely have harnessed the power of their star. I doubt they have to consider financial issues with regards to travel expenses.
The aerodynamic part didn't make too much sense as again, a race that advanced could probably build a vessel that could alter shape etc to suit it's environment (IE, form a more aerodynamic shape for I'm atmosphere flight) And could have protective flight suits/systems etc that we can't even comprehend (imagine showing a modern G suit to a peasant in the dark ages)
Also being advanced really shouldn't mean a lack of interest in "lower" forms of life. There are countless reasons as to why. They could simply be incapable of thinking like us in their advanced state, that would no doubt be interesting to observe. They could be interested in music, or art of different cultures. They could be checking in to make sure we don't kill ourselves, or to see if we have stopped bowing down and talking to imaginary gods. But anybody traveling the stars no doubt has an inherent curiosity. We take interest in bugs. Most of us in a kind way. Let's hope that if we do ever encounter them. That we don't meet the galactic phsycos who likes to pull their wings off 😬
The less intelligent you are, the more likely you are to claim you have been abducted by aliens 👽.
Or make baseless assumptions with no evidence. Most people who have seen or had any interactions with a UFO have never reported it. I saw a UFO in 1982 over Lake Mead at a close range, along with two other witnesses.
I never reported it.
What else do you “ know “ 😂😂
@@starsixtyseven195 ... considering that he didn't use themat word and you used quotation marks around it like you think he did, I'm guessing you might have a story you'd like to share with the class today?
So telescopes tell us about the past. If they want to know whats happening now, they would have to directly observe.
They'd have to get here first.
I don't understand the cost argument. If a civilization is so advanced to be able to travel the universe, I feel like cost would be the last consideration of why or why not.
Being advanced technologically doesn't necessarily negate scarcity. Just because you're advanced, why would your resources be unlimited?
I like the premise in Asimov's "Foundation". Where it is millions of years in the future and there are lots of civilizations throughout the galaxy but they are all human.
There is a potential problem and paradox...
that as large, highly complex, resource hungry and environmentally dependent critters -
We human beings might not be the most suitable beings for slow long distance intergalactic space travel and exploration!
So ironically while we might be the smart and clever critters to design, build and initially pilot the spaceships needed to escape earth.... it is far more likely that either the AI, or computers, robots and/or or more humble sturdy biology that would survive such intergalactic space journeys
Which might also apply to aliens coming from their hosts too!?
ETs would have to have a planet with materials necessary for capable craft, and such planets may be astonishingly rare. Were it not for this on Earth, plus the occurrence of two carboniferous eras, we wouldn't be capable either. You can't build spacecraft out of wood and plants.
Anybody read the Paul Wallis Eden series?
I don't think it would be like going on safari in Africa for them. I can pull together a few grand and do that.
usually agree with him about stuff, and he is obviously right that as far as we know these laws exist across the universe and cannot be broken and therefore space travel of any significant distance is impossible. Having said that i would be interested to see what 3rd and 4th generation AI and quantum computing think about that, the same laws may still apply but maybe a workaround is conceivably possible. my real problem with his argument is the shape of the craft, why a disk? its brilliant here on earth but makes no sense for the majority of the journey where it may as well be shaped like a Saint Bernard dog. Fine, odd shapes work in space but when you get into Earths atmosphere the Saint Bernard design is going to experience a few teething problems, so i think a disk would be the right call, disappointing really
Gravity propulsion, Bob Lazar?
Krauss disappoints.
'I'm going to say it wouldn't be reasonable for aliens to do (this or that).' And I'm going to say the speaker is speculating from an anthropomorphic perspective about critters of which he has (presumably) little or no experience. Probably the latter.
Estimates range from multiple millions to trillions of species on Earth; How many do what Sapiens does?
Now if there's a planet out there in a galaxy far far away, and there's life on that planet, what are the odds that life is doing what Sapiens is doing, and not something the trillion non-Sapiense species here on Earth are doing? Or doing something so different that we can't even think about it?
First of all, if you're talking about a trillion species on Earth, you're talking about the vast majority of them being microbial, single-celled species. Be that as it may, if there are a trillion species on another planet, what are the odds that just one of them will develop into a highly intelligent form? That doesn't seem so far-fetched to me. Now, consider that the transition from some rather ordinary vertebrates to humans took only a few million years and that there have been billions of years in which there have been planets capable of supporting life-forms similar to Earth life-forms in a general sense. Abstract calculations have indicated that any technologically intelligent forms out there are likely to be many millions of years older than us on average.
So, what if they are doing something so different from us that we can't imagine it? That's not an indication that they wouldn't come here to check us out, no matter how mysterious their purposes might be. Right now, using spectroscopic analysis, we're checking out the atmospheric composition of planets many light years away, orbiting other stars, for indications that those planets might harbor life. Conversely, distant intelligent forms may easily have known for millions of years that Earth probably harbors life. Given the millions of years available, it's entirely possible for such intelligent forms to have already reached us with some kind of exploratory mission, whether in the form of some kind of robot probes or traveling habitats containing members of their species. This is possible without the necessity of travel speeds anywhere close to the light speed limit. Also, if an alien species had been sending out colonizing expeditions to suitable planets for a few million years or so, and those colonies had been leap-frogging onward, sending out their own colonizing projects, calculations have shown that they could easily have saturated the galaxy by now. There might well be colonies within a relatively short hop to our Solar System.
I wouldn't worry about needing to fear them. Their own natural environmental needs are not likely to be compatible with the ecosystem of Earth. As far as resources go, there are metals, hydrocarbons, energy sources, and anything else they might want all over the galaxy without their needing to take anything away from other life forms, and there are tons of non-biotic planets of appropriate size and character that they could terraform to suit their own needs. If they are checking us out, I suspect that their motives might be more in the nature of scientific and philosophical curiosity than imperial conquest.
There is a YT channel produced by a guy named Isaac Arthur who speculates analytically about topics like this. He's brilliant, and he's got a ton of already produced videos. His speculations are enormously more sophisticated than bozos like you and I are ever going to come up with. He seems to have a pretty wide and deep grasp of math, physics, and the sciences in general. He's definitely worth checking out. Just type "Isaac Arthur" into YT search.
@donnievance1942
And what if we are the freaks of nature, an error, invasive species doomed to extinction by our own hand - hence the nuclear weapons and endless wars and destruction.
And what if the microorganisms are the way to go for life?
And what if cockroaches are the master species on Earth?
And what if..?
14:00 Dude really doesn't understand how basically impossible it would be to even aim something that accurately across 5 lightyears of space. Let alone trying to calculate the orbits of a planet around another star 75,000 years in the future so that the probe actually crashes into it.
It would be like hitting a hole in one at St Andrews on the 3rd hole, taking your tee shot from the moon, just to get the probe into orbit around the star.
You're assuming that the craft would operate as a simple ballistic missile, like a bullet. Our own missions to the moon or other planets don't even operate that way. We aim them, fire them off, and then make course corrections as they near their targets. All you have to do is get the initial ballistic trajectory to within the general vicinity of the target and then fine tune it on the approach with the aid of imaging technology. That was one of the dumber comments I've seen in a while.
Perhaps there aren't any?
Lawrence Krauss is starting to sound like Neil Degrasse Tyson. Maybe he always did. “Ehh would aliens do that?” Such a dumb uncreative non-argument.
And smart people would still rather sound like both of them than any of you guys.
Sorry that the "God works in mysterious ways" argument is just as bad as the "Aliens work in mysterious ways" argument. But what do you want Krauss to do? Concede to bad arguments?
@@dankelly7712 He’s always been that way-someone who thinks he knows it all and dismisses anyone who disagrees or sees things differently. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve come to realize that people like this are just as ignorant and uninterested in understanding the nature of reality as the religious fanatics they tend to debate with.
It’s not a creative argument. It’s based in reason and physics.
@@keffbarn I think you're projecting.
@@keffbarnAs you've got older , wishful thinking has taken over common sense. As I've got older these explanations make 100% sense compared to the teenage day dreams of Disneyland wishful thinking. The more we find out , the more it seems possible we are alone in this galaxy .
Anyone want a bagel?
Antisemitic?
@ it’s a quote from the movie Paul about alien probing. Probing is mentioned in the video. But to some people everything is antisemitism (sigh)
@whysoserious8666 I'm not familiar with the quote. But I am familiar with a large amount of antisemitic comments made towards Jewish people. A name like Krauss would be enough.
You think I'm the one being hyperbolic, I believe it's you claiming everything is antisemitic.
Sigh...
what interest would they have in us? what better way to entertain themselves than listening to blockheaded jibberish? they can go faster than light and maybe even been doing so for thousands of years (a statistical burp in galactic time). probably not too concerned with things like costs or aerodynamics.
But physical objects cannot go faster than light.
But [what we call] physical objects cannot go faster than light. Maybe their 'stuff' doesn't fit our definition of physical object, at least when it is travelling. It was hundreds of years between Newton and Einstein. Now put a few millennia in there after Einstein and who knows.
@@wmrieker Unless they are pure energy they are not going faster than light. It's not about technology, it's a physical law.
I totally agree with him. I've never seen this, and these are the same arguments I make to my naive friends. Haha.
If everything he is comfortable with and thinks he knows is true, then nothing to see here folks!
What it does do is explain the why behind what he is saying. It’s not just a luck guess. Why we don’t know “everything” we do know something’s. And those things we do know quite well underpin everything in our modern lives.
@ I understand what you are saying, but to say that what we know we know quite well is another way of saying that we are very familiar with and confident in what we already believe.
But what we do not yet know is obviously unknown, and so when presented with phenomena we can’t explain per what we already know, it is an opportunity to go forward.
@ without definitive evidence you have to deduce based on what you do know based on the claim. I’d agree if we actually had physical objects that the scientific community could study. So far no has actually been present. Claims and argument have been made but that’s all that’s been presented in lieu of evidence.
@ But sightings by trained observers of what are obviously craft, photos, radar and ground traces, and accounts from high level insiders are all evidence. Waiting for a flying saucer to land on the MIT campus is not good proactive science.
@@morphixnm Nice, so we have the same evidence for Aliens as we do for YHWH, Brahman, Tengri, Odin, Zeus, Huitzilopochtli, and Mrawi.
I tilt to the view that they are NOT traveling far to get here. Lending my thoughts that they have been here this whole time. I ask, when facing global extinction event would an advanced NHI seek to terraform another planet, or would they bunker up in the oceans and mountains? These beings may have been hiding here this whole time. Remerging from their bunkers from time to time to check on the surface dwellers. Would explain aerodynamic ships and historical sightings and events.
@@shadowking6425 Or perhaps you just forgot your meds?
Inteligent? Maybe, but oh so ignorant definitely!
Ridiculous. He's assuming aliens would have the same tech as humans. They would have to use something that's more like teleportation because the speed of light is waaaayyy too slow.
I'd suggest you read his book: The Physics of Star Trek. There might be problems with trying to ignore the fundamental physics at hand.
@AzimuthAviation scientist have recently teleported photons in lab experiments. To think that we have a complete understanding of what's possible currently is naive I think. No telling what a civilization 1 million years more advanced than humans might achieve
It’s like someone in the 1500’s questioning how can these things move without sails ???? Or horses ???
yes you are.
Krauss isn't assuming anything. He is _responding_ to the people who make these assumptions-an assumption made by many people (especially the people who make fake footage of little flying saucers in the sky).
Of course, Dr. Krauss would consider other hypothetical modes of interstellar transportation more viable if there was any evidence of them being used. Why don't you find some, publish your findings, and prove him wrong?
Look, Travis, you're probably just a well-meaning guy who watched a little too much TV as a kid. But believing that little green aliens really abduct rural farmers to probe them and play pictionary in their corn fields is just as much of a religion as Christianity or Hinduism is.
If they're really here, prove it. Until then, let's keep the wild speculation to Hollywood, kay?
@@RelyeaRonnie We've had basic steam engines since the ancient Greeks. We've invented plenty of other turbines throughout history too-windmills, watermills, handmills, etc... We've harnessed rotational power for a lot of stuff for a long time-bow drills, Archimedes' screw, winches, windlasses, sewing machines, etc. We've also know about petrolium-based propellants too (bitumen, naptha, etc.).
All of the underlying principles of an internal combustion engine could've been easily explained to someone well-versed in the science and engineering of his day (like Leonardo DaVinci) and he would've easily been able to make the extensions necessary to understand it.
So this is more like a group of peasants laughing at Leonardo when he politely tries to tell them how internal combustion engines have to work and why they can't work without inventung sparkplugs or diesel fuel first-but they simply do not understand how much they do not understand and so they say "must be angels".
I have SEEN something that could have been a UFO. Almost 99% a UFO ! These aliens would be as curious about earthlings as humans are interested in aliens !!!
Or it could've been any number of far more-likely phenomenon rather than the least likely one-little green men on safari.
Look, this is a religion for you folks. It's dogma, superstition, faith, and a whole lot of copium.
Nobody doubts that _IF_ aliens could come to Earth, _THEN_ they may have some equivalent to human biologists who go out into the rainforests to look for new worms or something.
The reason why these super smart guys always say that aliens wouldn't want to have anything to do with us is because they're looking at you and thinking the same thing.
Sure ya did, buddy.
The U in UFO means what?
@@LynchyVidzthey ALWAYS forget that tricky little 'U'
Please stop.
I'm thinking this guy just makes shit up , I guess he does come from the US 😂
And which third-world country are you from?
@I-am-Hrut thankfully not the one that identifies as the USA 😂
He’s Canadian.
@markkjacobson thank you, seems they can be a bit nutty too
Technology advancement has no limits …. We don’t know or understand all the physics.
But if we understand some physics then wouldn't there be limits?
@@John-xd6ns You don't get it. Alienism is a religion for these guys. They buy "Aliens work in mysterious ways" or "Aliens of the gaps" arguments wholecloth. If you asked them and they were honest with you, then they would say "we don't know or understand all the physics" actually means "we don't know or understand _any_ of the physics"
He thinks he can predict limitations to technology a billion years ahead of us.
"Probes" seems a more feasible explanation.
no he doesn't
@I-am-Hrut Talking about crashed UAPs ( not that I believe in them) and saying they wouldn't survive impact.
How can he know that ?
@@davidlamb7524 No, he didn't say that. Go back and rewatch that part.
He said even if we grant that they could have some magical material that could withstand 700g, that all the aliens inside would still die due to the g-forces.
You didn't watch the whole video and it shows.
@I-am-Hrut Ok but he said they wouldn't survive right ? He doesn't know that they wouldn't have developed some protection from that, given a billion years or more advanced science.
@@davidlamb7524 He also doesn't know if unicorns and fairies exist on some magical hypothetical planet where gumdrops grow on trees and fudge rivers flow through the land. So Candyland is a real place and we should all start acting as if it those who believe in it are sane? Get real!
The short answer is that if you're willing to violate every law of phyics to "prove aliens came here" then you're no better than a religious fanatic using the "God of the gaps" or "God works in mysterious ways" arguments so why should anyone take you seriously?
Bro doesn't know AI robots can replace fleshy bodies.
😂😂😂😂❤
Hi
Kraus creates a straw argument thst the aliens wouldn't be interested in us because they had already encountered thousands or tens of thousands of civilizations like us already. If so, where are all those civilizations. On the other hand, if we like them are very rare, they would have enormous curiosty about us. I have very little curiosity about what Krauss thinks. He is an academic egomaniac who used his celebrity to get laid.😂
That's horrible, everybody should only try to get laid with you.
See it as a rite of passage, you'll never be able to sit again
1. Nope. He's directly responding to Fermi's Paradox. Also, if they existed, then they probably destroyed themselves like we're in the process of doing to ourselves.
Additionally, life (as we know it) requires at least a few ingredients (like large heat sinks of liquid water and locally "free energy" from a stable nearby star to be Thermodynamically selected for). Common enough ingredients, sure. But we've also narrowly survived like 5 mass-extinction events ourselves so we may just have been lucky or that might be normal. We don't know.
2. I agree. Even if life is not that rare, there are probably some aliens on the spectrum who would enjoy a safari visit to Earth or something. Sure, w/e. Would be nice if they were a bit more eco friendly though. Guess they prefer the hand's off approach to maintaining a ecosystem. Don't want those cute humans looking for handouts, now. 😂
3. Get a real hobby.
@I-am-Hrut You didn't get that I was pointing out the fallacy in his argument. First he claims we see no aliens because we are not that interesting and then he says that we are not interesting because they have seen so many other civilizations throughout the galaxy. That is not a plausible theory. Oh, and he puts out a book targetted at the dumb masses that the universe was made from nothing and then the dumb masses inform him that quantum fields are not nothing. Oh, and he was a friend of Jeffrey Epstein to boot. He was forced to leave Arizona State University.
You're rationalizing
Yawwwwn
Aliens have been visiting this planet for a long time. At this point, most people already understand that, and what we're concerned with is: What are they using to get here?
Once you figure that part out, you figure out pretty quickly why it isn't ubiquitously known by the public.
@itranscendencei7964 No, "most people" don't think that.
Most largely-uneducated, Hollywood-obsessed _Americans_ don't even think that (according to a 2022 poll, only 34% do).
Alienism is just another new age religion for young neckbeards struggling to cope with the decline of traditional religious hierarchies.
Time to come back down to Earth, space cowboy.
That’s a similar argument for God. You’re talking about faith and what you want to be true not what you can demonstrate is true.
@markkjacobson Not even close. All of the science papers and patents that show what I am saying to be 100% true are publicly available. You just have to be able to make sense of it.
Ben Rich: "We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of god to ever get them out to benefit humanity."
Richard Feynman: "One teacup of empty space contains enough energy to boil all the world's oceans."
Rich is a former director of Lockheed Skunkworks, so he would definitely be ready in on a program if he is literally running it, and Feynman is one of the greatest physicists in the past 100 years. The information and evidence is out there, so it's up to you to decide what you believe and what you ignore.
@markkjacobson @markkjacobson Not even close. All of the science papers and patents that show what I am saying to be 100% true are publicly available. You just have to be able to make sense of it.
Ben Rich: "We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of god to ever get them out to benefit humanity."
Richard Feynman: "One teacup of empty space contains enough energy to boil all the world's oceans."
The information and evidence is out there, so it's up to you what you decide to believe and what you ignore.
Not even close. All of the science papers and patents that show what I am saying to be 100% true are publicly available. You just have to be able to make sense of it.
Ben Rich: "We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of god to ever get them out to benefit humanity."
Richard Feynman: "One teacup of empty space contains enough energy to boil all the world's oceans."
The information and evidence is out there, so it's up to you what you decide to believe and what you ignore.