I played with a 16mm prism flash for a good 4-6 months or so then I switched to a 14mm version of the same paddle and I liked the feel of it much more. At first, it felt too light and weak and I did not like it at all, however, after adding some lead tape and just sticking with it until it felt comfortable, I much more prefer my 14mm. I like the pop and speed more, I prefer the response off the paddle more than the plush feeling of the 16. I was pleasantly surprised with the 14 and will most likely continue to use a 14 going forward
I appreciate your presentation in comparing those. Very informative and helpful when deciding a next paddle purchase. Coming from a thicker paddle, I feel ready to step into a 14mm paddle.
I like your launch angle theory with the 14 vs 16mm paddles. I have the new Vanguard Control and feel it constantly pops it up way more often than my old Onix Z5, which is supposed to be a much poppier paddle than the Vanguard.
4.0 senior here =I've played 14s (Diadem Icon V2 - Gearboxes - Selkirk invicta), vs 16's (Perseus - RonBus - Six Zero) ... 14s all seem to have more pop & depth, less control, touch, consistency... I use heavy spin sweep on serves & underspin returns = 16s are more consistent > 14s... Your video suggests that 14s have more spin?
Accurate content. I play with a 14mm. It gives me the edge on handbattles, but it’s harder to control direction due to the smallee sweet spot. You add weight and then it gets heavier. It’s always one or the other lol
I have a question about the twist weight when you add lead to a 14mm to match the weight of the same 16mm paddle. Wouldn't you potentially get a better twist weight than the 16mm since the weight difference is being added to the outside perimeter of the 14mm paddle? This is weight that came off across the full face of a 16mm paddle and is now just added on the outside edge as lead tape. I'd be curious to know how this actually measures up. Launch Angle - I suspect that the higher launch angle with thicker paddles comes from the additional dwell time on the paddle compared to the thinner paddle. But this would really only apply when you are brushing up on the ball. The launch angles should be the same on a 100% flat shot. Does this make sense?
I like that twistweight question, I’ll have to test it out and see what we get. As for the launch angle comment, you’re right, flat shots like an overhead or block wouldn’t be affected by it.
The DBD 16mm and 14mm both have the same static weight and the swingweights are almost the same. So, is there any advantage to the 14mm DBD? Would it harder than the 16mm with lead on the baseline and at Kitchen?
Yeah, in that scenario the paddles are going to have similar power at the baseline with the edge towards the 14 and then the 14 will be more poppy on counters and resets. The 14 will still feel more maneuverable than the 16 though the 14 will have a stiffer, firmer feel to it as well.
Which would be better for beginners 14mm or 16mm ? And wide body or elongated? Ive played b4 its fun and im new and just want to get a pair of paddles to play with friends!
I typically recommend 16mm widebody style paddles for beginners. Only exception is if you have a strong racket sport history in which case an elongated paddle would feel more natural to you.
Hmm, looking for a backup paddle to my bread n butter filth, it seems the 14mm may be close and at a cheaper price. Any thoughts on that one? Im kinda basing it on how o generate my own power. Sometimes i take my gearbox gx5 out just to keep my game soft, and i can still generate decent power with it with its stock weight. So kinda wanting to give 14 mm a try. Maybe itll be all the paddle i need playing at 4.5 level.
I am just getting ready to start playing pickleball and decided on paddle: Vatic pro prism flash but unsure of 14 vs 16. Your video was very informative. Great job. I went back and forth through video changing my mind. Suggestions?
If you’re just getting ready then I would suggest the 16 since it’s more forgiving and easier to play with. If you end up getting a Vatic paddle then the code 10EFFECT will work on their website for a discount.
Great video, but I think you may be confusing trajectory with launch angle. The increased power from the 16mm will improve trajectory, making it seem like launch angle is greater. You will need to mount the paddles to something at an angle and drop balls on them to get a better measure.
When you are talking about 'swing weight', this has nothing to do with 'cutting through the air' (i.e. as if swing weight is related to air resistance). Swing weight is simply the rotational inertia of the paddle i.e. how easy is it to rotate in your wrist (without reference to the drag through the air)..
any thoughts on a paddle for an intermediate player and current tennis player. Considering Slk Halo Max, Vatic Pro Prism Flash 14mm, Crown 14,mm Black, and Diedem icon v2 middleweight? More control than power although i can add tape. Non elongated. Thx.
I like the idea of the flash 14 for you. It has a more pleasant feel to it and is easier to control compared to other 14s and with your tennis skills I think you’d prefer the launch angle of a 14mm since it’s a little lower and will feel familiar to you. Put some weight on there and it plays pretty forgivingly and will give you the plow through you need. Plus, it’s a great deal. My code 10effect knocks the price down to $90 on their website and I’d put that paddle up against a lot of paddles that cost twice as much.
I have noticed that Paddletek's 14.3 is similar to most 16 mm and Paddletek's 12.7 is similar to most 14 mm. I wonder if companies measure differently.
@@ruffleshaveridges wouldn’t it affect weight distribution to only the head of the paddle? Rather than wrapping it all around the paddle to make it even?
@@itsDecap 1) i'm not sure how heavy an edge guard actually is bc I use electrical tape, but i doubt it's heavy enough to affect swingweight. electrical tape never bothered me 2) differences in swingweight are most magnified at the head and gradually less as you get closer to the handle. whether you add to the head or to the head+the rest of the paddle, it will feel very very similar.
The stuff I use is very light weight so it doesn’t change the way it plays. Plus only adding it to the top makes it so the roll you buy lasts longer since you have to switch it out after it gets beat up. I actually sell that edge tape and intentionally sourced material that is lighter than other stuff that is out there so it didn’t change paddle performance when you added it, a.co/d/iRGCYiR.
Since this video I think that 16s do have more of that dwell time though I think that it impacts spin more on things like dinks cuz the ball pops off quicker on 14s but from the baseline thinner paddles still give me a little more than 16s in a lot of cases.
@@pickleballeffect Agree, but a summary slide at the end showing which is better on each metric would be icing on the cake. (Obviously I can go back and reconstruct that on my own. But I could also learn all of this really slowly on my own too, right?) 😂
I know! He even says thickness at 0:43. I was trying to figure out what aspect of width they were referring to in the title. I *think* I’ve seen other YT videos mention width in the title as well.
🧐 The information provided in this video is only true for non thermoformed paddles. Most of the best paddles today are thermoformed raw carbon fiber, which sadly renders this video at best irrelevant, and at worst misleading. Thermoformed raw carbon fiber paddles typically demonstrate reverse relationships between thickness and power vs control (and to a lesser degree poppiness vs control). In other words, 16mm thermoformed paddles are often more powerful than their 14mm counterparts. This is true for the Volair Mach 1 Forza and the Six Zero Double Black Diamond, for example (based on power values in JohnKews paddle data spreadsheet).
@@bentwookie348 With gen1 CF paddles (aka non-thermoformed), the 14mm variants are typically more powerful and more poppy than their 16mm counterparts, while the 16mm variants are more plush and easier to control than their 14mm counterparts. This aligns with our intuition, as thicker paddles have more material to absorb the energy from the ball. With gen2 CF paddles (aka thermoformed), the power/control spectrum is reversed, while the poppiness/control spectrum does not seem to follow any predictable pattern (i.e. some paddles are poppier at 14mm, some are poppier a 16mm). The reasons for this reversal from a physics standpoint are not as straightforward as the commonly understood explanation for the gen1 paddles (i.e. thicker = better at absorbing energy)
Answer: 2mm
😳
@@amarkpon I think the first title of the video was what’s the difference between a 16mm and a 14mm paddle . LOL
@@86309 Facts
Thank you, this was helpful and succinct!
Good one
Lots of players actually find it easier to hit 3rds with a 14mm which supports your launch angle theory Braydon. Nice review
Great video! Just bought and will be using a 14mm paddle for the first time
Nice! Let us know what you think once you get some shots in.
Shoutout to tourna dry grips you’re rocking on both paddles best grip ever
I played with a 16mm prism flash for a good 4-6 months or so then I switched to a 14mm version of the same paddle and I liked the feel of it much more. At first, it felt too light and weak and I did not like it at all, however, after adding some lead tape and just sticking with it until it felt comfortable, I much more prefer my 14mm. I like the pop and speed more, I prefer the response off the paddle more than the plush feeling of the 16. I was pleasantly surprised with the 14 and will most likely continue to use a 14 going forward
I appreciate your presentation in comparing those. Very informative and helpful when deciding a next paddle purchase. Coming from a thicker paddle, I feel ready to step into a 14mm paddle.
I’ve only used 16s. I’ll have to give a 14 a try!!
Interesting, as today I am glancing at a 20MM
I like your launch angle theory with the 14 vs 16mm paddles. I have the new Vanguard Control and feel it constantly pops it up way more often than my old Onix Z5, which is supposed to be a much poppier paddle than the Vanguard.
That could totally be why. Some 16s seem to launch it higher than other 16s but in general that’s the experience I’ve had with them over and over.
what about the prism versions are there any huge differences??
The comments I made aren’t directly pointed towards the Flash models but generally speaking when considering a 14 and 16mm paddle.
Thanks for the succinct explanation of these differences. Quite helpful and informative.
4.0 senior here =I've played 14s (Diadem Icon V2 - Gearboxes - Selkirk invicta), vs 16's (Perseus - RonBus - Six Zero) ... 14s all seem to have more pop & depth, less control, touch, consistency... I use heavy spin sweep on serves & underspin returns = 16s are more consistent > 14s... Your video suggests that 14s have more spin?
Love the Logic Tom, but today I was considering going up to a 20MM , your thoughts?
Accurate content. I play with a 14mm. It gives me the edge on handbattles, but it’s harder to control direction due to the smallee sweet spot. You add weight and then it gets heavier. It’s always one or the other lol
I have a question about the twist weight when you add lead to a 14mm to match the weight of the same 16mm paddle. Wouldn't you potentially get a better twist weight than the 16mm since the weight difference is being added to the outside perimeter of the 14mm paddle? This is weight that came off across the full face of a 16mm paddle and is now just added on the outside edge as lead tape. I'd be curious to know how this actually measures up.
Launch Angle - I suspect that the higher launch angle with thicker paddles comes from the additional dwell time on the paddle compared to the thinner paddle. But this would really only apply when you are brushing up on the ball. The launch angles should be the same on a 100% flat shot. Does this make sense?
I like that twistweight question, I’ll have to test it out and see what we get. As for the launch angle comment, you’re right, flat shots like an overhead or block wouldn’t be affected by it.
@@pickleballeffect so if you added lead tape to the 14mm to be the same as the 16mm, would the spin now be about the same?
Great video right here
Do you really mean it?
Interesting, I've mainly only played 16 except 003 and power are which are extreme opposite. 😊
The DBD 16mm and 14mm both have the same static weight and the swingweights are almost the same. So, is there any advantage to the 14mm DBD? Would it harder than the 16mm with lead on the baseline and at Kitchen?
Yeah, in that scenario the paddles are going to have similar power at the baseline with the edge towards the 14 and then the 14 will be more poppy on counters and resets. The 14 will still feel more maneuverable than the 16 though the 14 will have a stiffer, firmer feel to it as well.
Thanks for sharing!Such a good video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Love the information. 14mm for me
Thanks for watching, I’m glad it was helpful!
I would love to hear whether 14mm vs 16mm is better for people with elbow problems.
16mm have less vibrations because there is more weight and material so those are typically better for elbow problems.
@@pickleballeffect thank you!
Getting a control paddle with 14mm is the best option
Which would be better for beginners 14mm or 16mm ? And wide body or elongated? Ive played b4 its fun and im new and just want to get a pair of paddles to play with friends!
I typically recommend 16mm widebody style paddles for beginners. Only exception is if you have a strong racket sport history in which case an elongated paddle would feel more natural to you.
Hmm, looking for a backup paddle to my bread n butter filth, it seems the 14mm may be close and at a cheaper price. Any thoughts on that one? Im kinda basing it on how o generate my own power. Sometimes i take my gearbox gx5 out just to keep my game soft, and i can still generate decent power with it with its stock weight. So kinda wanting to give 14 mm a try. Maybe itll be all the paddle i need playing at 4.5 level.
I am just getting ready to start playing pickleball and decided on paddle: Vatic pro prism flash but unsure of 14 vs 16. Your video was very informative. Great job. I went back and forth through video changing my mind. Suggestions?
If you’re just getting ready then I would suggest the 16 since it’s more forgiving and easier to play with. If you end up getting a Vatic paddle then the code 10EFFECT will work on their website for a discount.
Great video, but I think you may be confusing trajectory with launch angle. The increased power from the 16mm will improve trajectory, making it seem like launch angle is greater. You will need to mount the paddles to something at an angle and drop balls on them to get a better measure.
Yeah, maybe that’s why but either way the ball still goes higher after impact in the scenarios I described with a 16 vs 14.
When you are talking about 'swing weight', this has nothing to do with 'cutting through the air' (i.e. as if swing weight is related to air resistance). Swing weight is simply the rotational inertia of the paddle i.e. how easy is it to rotate in your wrist (without reference to the drag through the air)..
Thanks! Very informative.
You're welcome!
any thoughts on a paddle for an intermediate player and current tennis player. Considering Slk Halo Max, Vatic Pro Prism Flash 14mm, Crown 14,mm Black, and Diedem icon v2 middleweight? More control than power although i can add tape. Non elongated. Thx.
I like the idea of the flash 14 for you. It has a more pleasant feel to it and is easier to control compared to other 14s and with your tennis skills I think you’d prefer the launch angle of a 14mm since it’s a little lower and will feel familiar to you. Put some weight on there and it plays pretty forgivingly and will give you the plow through you need. Plus, it’s a great deal. My code 10effect knocks the price down to $90 on their website and I’d put that paddle up against a lot of paddles that cost twice as much.
Great commentary about paddle core thickness. It DOES make a difference, so why not choose the paddle that enhances your game?
I have noticed that Paddletek's 14.3 is similar to most 16 mm and Paddletek's 12.7 is similar to most 14 mm. I wonder if companies measure differently.
Ohhhh. Solid informative content.
Well seeing this comment my ears just perked up.
Thanks for the information!
Why do you only cover the top part of the paddle with your edge guard?
most vulnerable to nicks+scratches, especially when defending low balls
I also do this.
@@ruffleshaveridges wouldn’t it affect weight distribution to only the head of the paddle? Rather than wrapping it all around the paddle to make it even?
@@itsDecap 1) i'm not sure how heavy an edge guard actually is bc I use electrical tape, but i doubt it's heavy enough to affect swingweight. electrical tape never bothered me 2) differences in swingweight are most magnified at the head and gradually less as you get closer to the handle. whether you add to the head or to the head+the rest of the paddle, it will feel very very similar.
The stuff I use is very light weight so it doesn’t change the way it plays. Plus only adding it to the top makes it so the roll you buy lasts longer since you have to switch it out after it gets beat up. I actually sell that edge tape and intentionally sourced material that is lighter than other stuff that is out there so it didn’t change paddle performance when you added it, a.co/d/iRGCYiR.
It would make sense then you can attack from lower with a 16mm?
Correct
Should do a video comparing 10-12mm to 14/16mm. Not as common for most brands but would like to know your thoughts on the differences
I would think that 16mms should have more "dwell time", providing the creation of more spin on the ball
Since this video I think that 16s do have more of that dwell time though I think that it impacts spin more on things like dinks cuz the ball pops off quicker on 14s but from the baseline thinner paddles still give me a little more than 16s in a lot of cases.
The difference between a 16mm paddle and a 14mm paddle is... (Lesley Nielson voice) 2 mm.
Doesn't the 16 have a different carbon fiber weave then the 14?
What? For what paddle? No. The only difference is core thickness.
@@AMurderOfLobs I just found the picture where they're different carbon fiber waves for the vatic 16mm and 14mm
@@Bigred12312 Sure, but that's just a random one-off.
The difference between the thicknesses of the paddles. 2MM. I crack myself up.
Great video!
Thanks!
@@pickleballeffect Agree, but a summary slide at the end showing which is better on each metric would be icing on the cake.
(Obviously I can go back and reconstruct that on my own. But I could also learn all of this really slowly on my own too, right?) 😂
The difference between the two is 2mm (16mm-14mm) = 2mm :)
You are not comparing widths but thicknesses of the paddles. Widths and lengths apply to the dimensions of the playing surface of the paddle.
Padlde thickness, not width.
I know! He even says thickness at 0:43. I was trying to figure out what aspect of width they were referring to in the title. I *think* I’ve seen other YT videos mention width in the title as well.
🧐 The information provided in this video is only true for non thermoformed paddles. Most of the best paddles today are thermoformed raw carbon fiber, which sadly renders this video at best irrelevant, and at worst misleading.
Thermoformed raw carbon fiber paddles typically demonstrate reverse relationships between thickness and power vs control (and to a lesser degree poppiness vs control). In other words, 16mm thermoformed paddles are often more powerful than their 14mm counterparts. This is true for the Volair Mach 1 Forza and the Six Zero Double Black Diamond, for example (based on power values in JohnKews paddle data spreadsheet).
Isn't that expected? More power from 16mm and more pop from 14mm?
@@bentwookie348 With gen1 CF paddles (aka non-thermoformed), the 14mm variants are typically more powerful and more poppy than their 16mm counterparts, while the 16mm variants are more plush and easier to control than their 14mm counterparts. This aligns with our intuition, as thicker paddles have more material to absorb the energy from the ball.
With gen2 CF paddles (aka thermoformed), the power/control spectrum is reversed, while the poppiness/control spectrum does not seem to follow any predictable pattern (i.e. some paddles are poppier at 14mm, some are poppier a 16mm). The reasons for this reversal from a physics standpoint are not as straightforward as the commonly understood explanation for the gen1 paddles (i.e. thicker = better at absorbing energy)
How about when playing singles. It's a different game overall. Thoughts? thanks.