Coraline: The Other Mother's Weird Origins
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- What is a Beldam? The word has been around a long time, and has an interesting origin story itself! How do the Other Mother's button eyes, affinity for bugs, and an overwhelming need to consume the souls of children fit in with other traits common among Beldams, and which traits track back furthest? How are Button eyes, and Wild eyes, and one poisonous beauty potion tied together?
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Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
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References:
Romanian Folklore: July 2010, comenius-legends.blogspot.com/2010/07/valva.html
“Coraline” by Neil Gaiman, 2002
"La Belle Dame sans Merci" by John Keats, 1819
Images:
John William Waterhouse - La belle dame sans merci, 1893
La Belle Dame sans Merci by Henry Meynell Rheam, 1901
Arthur Hughes - La belle dame sans merci
Frank Dicksee - La belle dame sans merci, c. 1901
John Keats - by William Hilton, after Joseph Severn, based on a work of c.1822
#Coraline #OtherMother #CoralineTheory #Animation #Beldam #abitfrank
![IF NETFLIX'S 'UGLIES' MOVIE WAS BOOK ACCURATE // [book versus movie: Uglies]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/83OwGCkvUv0/mqdefault.jpg)
Check out my Coraline Other Mother ASMR on my second channel! ua-cam.com/video/T7Rk_EkBc0g/v-deo.html
Regarding Romanian folklore stories, Muma Pădurii is indeed an evil spirit, but her daughter, although truly enchanting, has a good heart. If you want to learn more about them, you should read Făt-Frumos din Lacrimă, which loosely translates to Prince Charming from a tear by Mihai Eminescu. Also, the daughter has indeed powers, but she doesn’t use them unless for bringing the hero back to life.
Fun Fact most of those "results" google gives you are BS.
I was wondering if you would consider doing a video on the original tale of Persephone and Hades, given in the original she went to the underworld of her own accord and was intent on staying there, the main reason it's perceived as her being held against her will is because Demeter kicked up a fuss about it, thus why the pomegranate only had 6 seeds when it would normally have hundreds. The story was essentially about Demeter not wanting to let her Daughter be with the person she loved, not Persephone being tricked and trapped by Hades. Also, it's believed that Persephone came up with some if not all of the harshest punishments in tataros (idk how to spell it) which I think is kinda cool. Sorry if these feels like a lecture, I love your content and by no means want this comment to come across as agressive
I think I love you!
Can I please talk to you for a moment so I can tell you everything you need to know about fairy people I'm part fairy please please please let me tell you so that people don't get the wrong conception of the fairies
Apparently there's evidence for being attracted to eyes that look large, which is the sort of effect belladonna eyedrops would cause. (you have no idea how happy I was to see this referenced because I got to finally share something I learned in an intro to psychology course)
Honestly, that kinda makes sense since people's pupils dilate when looking at someone they love due to hormones.
@@lolymop333 yea! It is especially known to happen when a person is aroused, so there might be some knee jerk reaction to seeing dilated eyes (of a person you’re at least somewhat interested in) and the subconscious association of falling in love or having sex together. But since that association isnt a conscious thought and just a resulting feeling, the person might feel especially attracted to the person and not be able to identify or put their finger on why. Which certainly must feel bewitching!!
Indeed. There is a reason Disney princess always have massive eyes.
*anime*
You are right. Belladonna enlarges the pupils. Now let's think about those big black buttons for eyes. Aren't they just massively dilated pupils?
In Italian, the word „Beldam" was translated as "Megera" and in German as "Vettel". Both words are, like the modern usage of "Beldam", used as insults against older, uglier or unpleasant women.
That just sounds like another name for witch or hag then. :?
Or crone, that's another good one. XD
@@indigowendigo8165 yes
I will remember those for when dealing with anyone who matches the description.
Megera/Megaera is also one of the three furies in greek mythology. They punish crimes and are associated with vengeance/justice. For example, after Orestes kills his mother he is pursued by the three furies.
hi! i'm from romania, and muma pădurii (in translation-forest's old woman/grandma) is basically a spirit that can take a human form. it's told that she's omnipresent in forests and some parents scare their children by saying that if they don't do what they're supposed to do, muma pădurii will come and take them away (not good parenting, but that's besides the point). the similarities between her and the beldam are pretty remarkable. the way they take kids if they don't behave, the fact that they can change their appearance etc. i never heard of that girl of hers, but that's really interesting.
Probably not any different from Santa Claus leaving switches in a bad kid's Christmas stocking. Switches that I -a city - born child whose house was warmed by a gas-burning fireplace and forced air warmed by a gas furnace -thought would be used as a punishment for me rather than as any kind of fuel.
Fuel in the generation before me was coal, so even then wood wasn't used.
I hate when people say telling children fairy tales to keep them safe is bad parenting. So dumb.
Și eu sunt din România
The Beldam could also be based on the Baba Yaga from Slavic folklore. The Baba Yaga can shape-shift and eats children. The Beldam could also be based off of vampires, that can drain people’s energy and they don’t have reflections in the mirror. In Chapter 6, Coraline was looking at herself in the mirror when she felt something on her shoulder and it was the Other Mother, only Coraline didn’t see her reflection in the mirror.
My school recently had an original play of Coraline, written and directed by one of the drama teachers. There were a couple of adaptations used to allow the play to run smoother on stage with a limited budget, but one that wasn’t necessary but was interesting to me was the final birthday scene for Coraline, where it’s just her and her mother left onstage. Coraline comments on how much she loves her mom and how most kids don’t realize how lucky they are. During the part, Coraline is facing the audience, hugging her mother, while her mother is facing away from the audience. As the mother says her line, “no Coraline, they don’t, they really don’t” she turns around so that she is now facing the audience, though now she has the button eyes of the Beldam.
yoo wait was that a cliffhanger?! damn
this is awesome!!!
You should do something on all of the Studio Ghibli movies if you haven’t already! I’ve seen your video on Howl’s Moving Castle and that was really good! :)
Agreed
Yes
@@A.void_me If we get enough likes maybe she’ll do it!! 😂🖤🤓
Especially if she talks about the old legends/stories that inspired each Ghibli movie
@@riakun I know right! There’s so much cool folklore that inspired the movies! It’s perfect for the deep dives she usually does!
The funniest thing is that a lot of the accused “witches” back in the day were actually midwives, and blamed for children and women dying in childbirth (when it was really the mostly male church wanting to invade a primarily matriarchal space, but lacking the knowledge passed from mother to daughter, midwife to midwife.). So it makes sense that a witchy character’s title of beldam would be associated with a bewitching beautiful young woman who uses her wiles to manipulate people, and an old bitter crone who uses her knowledge to attain power or control, especially when the younger witch is associated with manipulating and luring men, and the older beldam is associated with luring and manipulating children. It covers the two main blames we associate with witches (that didn’t involve real world issues of the time like crops dying, women owning property or being unmarried, or political issues); manipulating men, and harming children. Just like midwives and their “feminine powers”; the young mother luring a well to do man with her charms and wild eyes to become pregnant and then for the two to be locked into wedlock, and therefore she gets the status and money from it, and the older woman using her knowledge of people’s desires and weaknesses and applying them, leaving her to revel in their pain when their child is replaced by a changeling.
Sorry if I sounded rude, I guess I was just trying to put "I doubt what you are implying" nicely, but in the end didn't come out any better.
@@castonyoung7514 It tracks actually, most people accused in the witch trials of the early modern period were women caught up in local drama, family troubles, were unmarried or widows, and a noticeable amount owned property that was seized after their death.
@@Rynewulf reminds me of a song from the perspective of an alleged witch
"Oh how they destroyed me
For my property
...
And told a story
Of a witch called Bathory"
I can easily see Keats' poem being a massive inspiration for Gaiman. He is very educated and well read, often utilizing older literature for retelling. Just look at his novel, The Graveyard Book. The same goes to his usage and description of the Faire Folk. He doesn't always present them with kindness, but instead shows that they are a wild breed that can be both friend and foe.
I love Keats’s poems, especially Ode to a Nightingale, it paints such an eloquent picture of absolute misery. Weird kind of compliment, but it is true.
I think she goes after children specifically because they're much more naive and their wariness and fear is much easier to melt with the promise of fun.
Plus they are innocent
The prey is sweeter to her palate
@@preciousharris4093as a elementary teacher, that is actually far from The truth. All children aint innocent.
@@oliveromarsson4189Ofc not but they are still children and can be manipulated and ate 😂
Tbh I’ve always viewed the Beldam as partially inspired off of it, which does something similar.Both also have spider related motifs to them.
I think the fact that you can't pinpoint her is what would make her scary. We humans fear the unknown
One thing I will always remember is that when I first read the book 13ish years ago, I initially misread "Beldam" as "Bedlam". It added a subtle almost Lovecraftian feel to the character until I caught my mistake.
A fairy witch. Neil himself stated Coraline is one of the stories he wrote for his daughter in which little girls fought against evil witches. She hovewer also shows signs of being a fae creature. The stone coraline uses is an Adder stone which is also called a witch stone. As far as I know it can be used to see through magic which would fit both a witch and a fairy. Id go for a fairy witch.
The Beldam always reminded me of a tale about Black Annis, the Leicesetshire Hag, collected by Ruth Tongue. In it, three children are sent out by their wicked stepmother to collect fire wood, but at night fall they are Prey to Black Annis, who they see through their stone with a hole in it.
Some say this child-eating ogress is a remnant of the mysterious celtic mother goddess Anu/Danu, others that she was a distortion of Agnes Scott, a nun who was buried right around where legends said "Black Annis' Bower" lay.
One thing I've noticed about both Other Mothers is that they seem to be able to completely control the appearance of their realm, from the building they reside in to the gardens beyond. If the Other Mother is indeed part fairy, she might have created this realm herself, which would explain why she can change it's physical appearance.
Exactly. I've thought about how messed up, too, it was that all that time Coraline was exploring her new house, and settling in, the other Mother was watching her, and creating her world to fit Coraline exactly. That is why Coraline doesn't get lured in right away. It's because the Beldam was buying time. 🤪😱
One thing you mention here really reminds me of something from our mythology: for how people would imagine sickness - pox in particular - as an old & ugly & scary woman and they would "taboo" her name and call her "sweet" and "honey" - and nice & good things to get her to show mercy.
There’s also the Jorogumo (Which is admittedly a Japanese demon so it’s not Western folklore technically but the Other Mother could be inspired by it). It’s a shapeshifting spider demon that lures men into their trap in the shape of a beautiful woman and eats them (or, in one story I read, seems to poison the dude the longer he spends with her which could be read as her draining his lifeforce). Admittedly, I’m far from an expert on Japanese mythology and folklore, but I have read about it and it seems to fit the Other Mother’s whole shapeshifting-spider-who-entices-their-victims-in-order-to-eat-them shtick.
Lol "self-administered poison" crazy the things we've done to ourselves throughout history.
In all fairness people still self administer poisons like nicotine and alchohol
Not so crazy. I ingest rat poison on a daily basis. Under medical advice.
I think you could really enjoy the book "The labyrinth of the faun" (The book, not the movie!!)
It's beautifully written, includes fascinating dark fairy tales and characters and sucks you right in. I think everyone should try it, it's really worth it!
I can't tell you enough how much I adore your voice!so mystical and breath, kind of like a medival fortune or story teller.and it's soooooo very soothing to listen to you.
I've been reading a lot on the sicilian "Donne di Fuora" (Outside Women) and came across one story about them that reminded me of Coraline. These "women" have many different names, like "fimmini i notti" (night women), "Patruni di casa/luoco" (mistresses of the house/place) or even "belle signure" (les belles dames/fair ladies). This story was told by Rosalba Re, in an interview conducted by Michail Sarris in 2003:
A story of a very cute girl. Once she was alone at home at a time... Well, at around three, when there's silence, let's say nap-time, her mother wasn't there, and a corner of the house opened, and they called her and she went inside ...
When her mother arrived the girl showed her gold coins given to her by thes strangers, these weird people let's say, and her mother says: "tomorrow you knock, and you ask for a lot of them...", And so it was, the girl knocked, the corner in the walls opened again, and she went inside, and she never returned. Then at night the mother always heard this girl who called her, but she never came back.
Has anyone else noticed that even though her hands are made of metal needles, she sews with a bone needle?
I'm from Brazil, and the first time I saw Coraline it was dubbed in pt-br. I thought they were saying "Bela Dama", which means "pretty lady".
In the Italian translation, the Beldam is called "Megera". In German, she's a "Vettel". Both words are insults against older, uglier or unpleasant women.
The Beldam is probably the perfect presentation of what a True Fae would be like in Changeling: The Lost.
9:00 The Baldem is something that Baba Yaga is called sometimes due to its translation to "grandmother". So most likely, your finding on it referring to a Forest Witch is something new, caused by that linking?🤔
From deference to one's grandma to what could be seen as scornful sarcasm.
I've only just started this video but it is great so far!
She's great right! I can't wait to meet a girl like her... she Is perfect!
Your voice is overwhelmingly calming, good videos
There is also the old phrase "you're cute as a button" and "button eyes." Just throwing that into the universe.
You should do a reading of Coraline like you did for Alice
She can't unless she gets permission from the author.
If the Other Mother is a kind of human-spider, that means she's the type of creature that literally eats her own young. So she's sincere when she tells Coraline "I love you" - in her mind, "love you" literally means "I want to eat you."
"For thousands of years, peoples of various cultures have regarded fairy rings with a strong sense of curiosity and fear, believing them to be mystical, supernatural places. Folklore tells us that cultures across Europe have traditionally believed that fairy rings are the dwelling place of fairies, elves, witches, and other magical beings- and that in some cases, they may be dangerous to enter. Even though fairy rings were thought to be little realms where fairies dance and play, lore suggested that if a human interrupted the fun, the cost could be deadly serious." Sourced from an article by Ariel Kusby.
In the beginning of the movie, Coraline enters into one of these circles at the well. While through out the story this circle stays largely unaltered, as best I can tell Coraline is the only one who truly enters into it. Towards the end, it appeared that a large bit of it had been altered due to the opening of the well.
Looking into these may further help you connect some dots. Good ole European fokelore.
Another really cool and insightful Coraline video!, but the fire breathing scorpion witch really has me intrigued.
O.o
I see Coraline and see it's from your Channel, I clicked without hesitation
2:25 I love how when you say "for different motives" there's a fire in the background referencing the Salem witch trials, a very grim, macabre reminder of humanity's past.
If you look at the kids clothes the beldam couldn’t have been there for longer than like 200 years. Meaning there was more before her and will be more after her. What the cat says about the beldam. Plus when the pink palace was made we can figure out she owned it originally and somehow got to the other world if we look at the garden outline which looks like both coraline and the beldam (in her true form aka the spider form).
Beldam is the friends we made along the way
I'm currently reading the book for the first time and I seriously hear your voice reading the text in my head. It's funny.
Wow super early for once
Same
I would love for you to cover Thief of Always. It’s VERY similar to coraline with a lot of the same themes
I love your nails! They’re so pretty! 😍
I haven't watched one of her videos in a while and when I heard her voice my toes curled up so hard it hurt. Amazing video sleep well
The fairy Nuala in Sandman is said to have been the original Belle Dame... I have to wonder now if she was the Other Mother...
Is there any info on the repeated imagery of horns? There's photos of horns in Mr. Bo's room, and two sets of horns in the dining room- one pair are curled and attached to a skull but the long straight horns hold no skull- and sit on the Beldam's side
"which witch are we talking about?"
Don't you mean "which witch is which" 😝 couldn't resist 😂
Amazing video i found you this year and been loving all your video, your voice just sounds perfect for this kinda videos
Cool video, I'm a bit of a folklorist and find it fascinating what parts of real world folklore inspired the lore of Coraline. I've never heard of the romanian forest witch before, even though I've read a bit of romanian folklore.
I love the coraline movie but I wish that they said more about the Bedlam.
Her voice is giving me ASMR.
This video is amazing!!
I do wonder why Gaiman used buttons.
HEYYY! I’M BEEN ON A CORALINE RAMPAGE, THANK YOU!
Your voice is so calming I legit listen to you when I go to sleep. At least..... I try to......who even sleeps anymore at this point??!!!!
The Beldam sounds a lot like Bobba Yaga.
SPOODERS!!!
Good video and in the Celtic culture the beldam has a few meanings such as the fae that should be respected but to be cautious towards.
Something that confused me is how did the normal mother know which key opened the small door
What if , beldam when coraline escaped with her parents , there is a quote beldam said " don't. Leave me here coraline ,i gonna die without you'' what if she is trapped in some kind of monster or she is under some spell ,and beldam wanted to escape as well
I can prove this theory as coraline had a key , the only key and when parents look behind door there is a brick wall , so if coraline was in the tunnel. Then beldam could escape as there is no wall , another think is first scene when we see spidy needle witch making doll , the doll flows down and we see stars , when weebie says if someone falls down they would see thousands stars , so my theory is that beldam wasn't a witch she was normal kid that falled down and died ,her soul is now in the water trapped down as it can't go up ,and the key that falled down there dosnt matter as its beldams soul she can't psychically pick it up
I don't know much about mythology but in terms of modern pop-culture depictions the "Other Mother" bears some resemblance to the Baba Yaga and even to Steven King's Pennywise.
Your voice is super cute✨🌟❤️
That was great this was very interesting to Learn my sister hates coralline now but I love this please make one about Roblox hackers!!
Your voice is so soothing and makes me sleepy and I’m an insomniac
you should do a video on the corpse bride. it was based of a jewish folktale called “the finger”
Love these videos!
THANK YOU my essay on coraline really needs help
Do you read the A Song of Ice & Fire series? There's still so much mystery to the story and I think you would have a great time digging through the cosmic mysticism grrm is playing with (: I really enjoy how you match motifs and themes and how you tie that data, it makes the story feel like a puzzle coming together. Hearing just the first half of this video I was shocked at the similarities between Westeros & Coraland lol It made me that much more excited to read through the Coraline books and theorize what an ending to grrm's books could be like. So like The Wall would be the cosmic tunnel and the "Other Mother" would be responsible for the ice zombies, someone stuck in a frozen land who cannot escape or maybe she was trapped or maybe she willingly sacrificed herself or maybe my comment is already too long, but thanks for the video, I hope you can find some fun with the A Song of Ice & Fire series
I find the Beldam's behavior to match that of the witch from Hans Christian Anderson's "Snow Queen" and the White Witch from CS Lewis's "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe." The snow queen kidnaps a little boy who got shards of glass from a cursed MIRROR. He sees everything as ugly and becomes cold and cruel like her. (Remember the mirror also in Coraline?) Mirrors are said to bridge the gap between us and the spiritual realm.
As for the White Witch, she escapes from her original world to ours, and then enters Narnia, of which she sets herself up as queen. (Much like, perhaps the Beldam. We never know, after all, if she found her world or made it). Once the White Witch's power is diminished, Winter starts to leave, and Spring comes to the land, like how the Beldam's world goes flat and two-dementional.
Love your theories they much entertained
Make please video on why did mother and other had to have buttons on their eyes
OMG MORE CORALINE AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
i know im a bit late but "muma padurii" translates to
the old woman of the forest
muma is like a when someone says old lady means the same thing
Amazing video !
Just found this Channel. And i love it, keep up the good Work. Love you're Voice and Content. Best Wish's ^_^
Belladonna is referenced in The Adventures of Merlin!!!! When the Witch Finder comes to town!!! The Witch Finder is also played by Charles Dance or Tywin Lannister. He literally plays Tywin while being the Witch Finder... the characters are very similar. It's kind of funny when you watch it.
*drops everything to watch video*
I love your videos! ❤🇹🇷
You can’t fool me Frank I know you’re a Beldam
I think coraline’s beldame is beautiful in her true form
Can you do one on Babayaga?🙏🏻
I first heard the word beldam from the beldam witch story (I read a lot of ghost stories)
I was thinking of the bell witch nvm
@@Bluekoi22thesecond-tz3skShe's obviously worse than the 1990 2017 pennywise the clown
How do you have the perfect horror story voice lol
Beldam is not that far off from the spelling of Bedlam, meaning chaos, which also has old origins. Possible connection?
A Beldam is a word meaning Hag also someone whom is a practitioner of Black Magic specifically using said magic to Siphon the life force and beauty either from Young Beautiful women or young children
Beldam Is more of a killer than pennywise the clown
Hold on this is really interesting…
I been trying to get you interested in reading a creepypasta of a character inspired by the Other mother. I can give you the link for it if your willing
What's the creepypasta? I'm interested now
@@lilscenechick1995 Beldam Luna
shes a spider witch
Favorite resident evil character go...
I'll go first I love Donna because we have so much in common .
i made a brakeing discovery that the Beldame was born in 1859 because the film was made in 2009 . And in one seconed befor they give her the buttons there are three paintings in the back of the dead chlidren but its just an out lien of them in black , so if corilne died there would be a black out lien of her .
That’s the only way to access the fiary relm
Muma padurii name translates to Mother of the Forest.
you should play night in the woods.
AyO
AyO
As an example of an old witch who eats children you can look up Baba Yaga(баба Яга) from russian folklore. But I don't think she is very similar to other mother
What about
based and witchy pilled
She has to be part fairy
First
Good job😊🥰👍💯💕💞💖
Isn’t Beldam witch a type of witch?
*"Hush and shush, for the bedlam might be listening."*
I remember years ago, someone made a comparison with a Chinese mythical creature that was a half-spider, half-woman. She would lure children away to eat them. I think Coraline's Beldam may have gotten inspiration from multiple sources with similarities.
*Japanese, her name was Jogurumo (I hope I wroted it right)
@@klsi8129 Jorogumo!
@@schmacker101 thanks
@@klsi8129 thank you
i do recognize the jogurumu from japanese folklore, i havent heard of her specifically taking children though
Belladonna is still used in pharmacology. Combined with phenobarbitol, it's pretty effective at relieving gastrointestinal spasms. I had never heard of such a thing until my doctor gave me a scrip for a stomach problem. I think it's the gothest medicine I have ever been prescribed.
Wow! Goth medicine for sure!
Isn’t it poisonous?
@@abitfrank Hi! 😄
I have a Prescription for Stomach upset made from Belladonna as well it's q great Medicine!
@@VoidKing666 it relaxes smooth muscles, hence makes eyes look bigger or relieves spasms. we use the quote "only the dose makes the poison" very often in pharmacology field.
i've got a question: when coraline gets into the other world, the other mother prepares food, right? But where does she get it? Is it even real or is it just an illusion like the other world? And if it isn't real food, what is coraline eating? (if you think about it, it's actually creepy) also i love your videos they are making my day better and creepier at the same time ;>
It looks like the Other World residents are made out of inanimate objects by the Other Mother, so maybe she can pull items out of the real world and into her web?
Bugs, probably.
@@thegayghost872 yeah that is also my theory, or maybe the rats are bringing her the food out of the real world?
@@Gleowyn could also be (poor coraline) :>
That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought about that yet😳