Great video. I've been windsurfing for 25 years before switching to wingfoiling last year but I refuse to get rid of my windsurfing gear. Like you say, that speed sensation of windsurfing just cannot be beat and is indescribable. I am quite happy having a session just blasting back and forth as that is just so exhilarating. Doing the same wingfoiling can become quite boring quickly - even though the mechanics of it are quite amazing that you are 'flying' over the water - it just does not have the same sensation. So for me, I have to keep pushing myself with wingfoiling to learn new things to keep it exciting. The other great plus for wingfoiling is it opens so many more launch locations that you just wouldn't consider for windsurfing - you hardly need any rigging area and tight launch spaces are worries. Also, as you don't need consistent wind, you can sail in areas with a lot of obstruction (buildings, trees, etc.). This has opened up several more sailing locations for me just in my local area. So for me, wingfoiling will be my go to sport for time on water - UNLESS the forecast looks perfect for a windsrufing session!
Thanks a lot! Your experience seems to be very similar to mine and you raise some good points. It's good to hold on to the windsurf gear for those high wind sessions and if you don't have storage constraints.
I wingfoiled 9 sessions back to back, end of season week winds, plus learning to jibe and getting used to new gear- until I had 2 days at a nearby wave and strong wind spot on my windsurf gear. Windsurfing is honestly the best sport bar none. Winging is cool until it’s challenging (also annoyingly so) but for general cruising in low winds I prefer Windsurf Foiling.
@@robsinHLabsolutely. The wave 🌊 after wave …gybing back out to the next breaker and nailing a tack onto the face then foiling a tiny 600 ha in the pocket is bliss
As cool as foiling is, windsurfing is still the best sport. Maybe difficulties at the begining are too much for some but its no really so hard if you put some time in it. I can windsurf in 12 inches of water where with foil you have start at the chest level of water ( in colder waters this is big no no for me). the sound of slicing/skipping over the water with speed gives you another mental rush .Foiling is just another sport and cannot compare these two. Windsurfers can pick up foiling fairly easy but can not be said otherwise. Two differen animals.
And yet so many windsurfers never went near kiteboarding. I think most were intimidated by having to completely start over with a steep learning curve. Kiteboarding blew the doors off windsurfing in terms of variety and excitement on the water, not to mention ease of gear transport and simplicity
I looove windsurfing and kitesurfing as well. Both very much in contact with the water. I love the sensation of the water in both. Wingfoiling still haven't caught me completely (about 10 times out and foiling well). I really miss the sensation of contact with the water. It frustrates me somehow, and even when fully powered feels SO boring compared to wind/kite-surfing. Wingfoiling feels disconnected from the water somehow. Almost like gliding through thin air. I mean it is fascinating to try. BUT the sensation seemed to change radically when I suddenly surfed a soft wave with my foil. Finally I got a biiig fat smile on my face, what I have been missing so far. Wingfoiling for me seems all about the waves. Windsurfing and kitesurfing needs no waves to be fun, and both always makes smile (when the wind is enough of course) There's just something magic about windsurfing especially.. that sensation of leaning back and accellerating like a rocket just over the water, always brings a big crazy smile on the face... That's my real passion. Even after mostly kiting for 14 years. No matter what we are privileged to be able to go do what we love out in the big blue. 🙂🤙
I think you nailed it with your analysis. I'm a long time windsurfer and love carving the board through the water, especially when wave sailing. I'll be possibly moving to a lower wind spot in the next 6 months, thus am thinking about winging as there is no windsurf scene there as majority of time it is light winds. My first and foremost thoughts are about using a wing to catch anything that looks like a wave or swell.
@@brianmckenzie1318 light wind wingfoiling is more realistic and more fun the less you weigh (because of board, foul and wing size). Of course a big board, wing and foil will get you going, but it does feel a bit clumsy in my opinion. Worth it though if there are some waves to play in. I surf with two guys who still love cruising in light wind without waves. They only weigh about 60-65 kilos though, and a 5m wing gets them going where I struggle with a 7 But better being on the water than not at all 🙂🤙
I know the feeling of wanting that windsurfing sensation and missing it at first with wingfoiling. But wingfoiling grows on you, especially with waves as you say.
Hi. I've practised wavesailing for 25 years and now learning wingfoiling after windfoiling. In my opinion, though I'm in a very satisfying learning phase of wingfoiling, wavesailing with side shore winds and some waves is unbeatable. I've also practised kitesurfing in waves and nothing to do with it. I prefer wingfoiling than windfoiling because of the freedom feeling, not uphauling , easier to launch from any spot.... Comparing wingfoiling and wavesailing: You don't need to cross the sets swimming until foil mast depth. Much easier and less risky in and outs. Surfing in contact with the wave better. Recovery in case of a fall in the middle of the sets is much easier and faster in windsurfing. I spend the same or less time to rig the sail than assembling the foil. The hand wing weights much less than the sail but the wingboard with the foil weights more than the waveboard. To sum up, I will wingfoil in light winds and flat/small waves and windsurfing in medium and strong winds and medium and big waves.
Wavesailing in windsurfing does look amazing. I never experienced good conditions for it myself unfortunately. Here in the mediterranean that's hard to get. Portugal, UK, Denmark, etc are surely better. Where do you live? You make some good points about windsurfing vs wingfoiling in waves. I hadn't thought of that. At my homespot the water gets deep super fast so I just lift the wingfoil gear over the first shorebreak and can get going immediately. But actually good wave spots wouldn't be like that, so what you say makes sense. But a big shorebreak can be scary with both windsurfing and wingfoiling, at least for me. Your summary is good, at the end of the day the sports complement each other.
I agree with the comment from @tate2863. There is nothing that compares to windsurfing waves. It is like true surf without the hassle to row. Living in Portugal/Guincho I prefer to stick to windsurf every time wind allows it (more than 14 knots since my biggest wave sail is a 5.4). For sure when it is light I would go for kitesurfing or wingfoiling (by this order, since kiting with a surfboard is my preference compared to wingfoiling). I also note that with a 14.5m kite I am able to ride in 10 knots; less than that only with kitefoiling or wingfoiling. Cheers.
Thank you for the video, very nice discussion about two different disciplines! Personally I'm not interested in wingfoiling, or foiling in general, nothing against the sport but it just does not spark me up. For me its windsurfing, with all the challenges, gear transporting and years of training, frustration, happiness, bliss, anger, and so on! It is interesting to think about the bigger picture, how windsurfing really takes a lot of patience and time when wingfoiling is faster to learn (so they say). And then compare it to the world in general, where everything should be possible to get instantly with as little effort as possible. If something does not work 100% at least on your second try you just switch to something else, instead of learning patiently.
I picked up windsurfing after a big health scare. My wife is still worried every time I go out. Windsurfing is not just a sport you pick up. It's an outlook on life and a lesson in philosophy. All the difficulties you mentioned are actually the whole point. Adding a foil to my windsurfing board just gives you more options to be on the water. It might be a difficult sell these days.
Probably a lot of windsurfers feel like you. Once you have dedicated years to it and embraced it fully with all its challenges, it becomes more than a sport, it becomes a passion
I think you are misreading many of us who prefer wing foiling and are trying to learn it like myself. I honestly think windsurfing looks pretty neat and looks awesome with the speed and there are some amazing deals on gear these days, but the reality is with a family and a life outside of this I have little time and so for that reason Wing foiling is a lot more approachable. It's easier to get my gear to the beach easier to store the gear and just generally seems a bit easier to learn. I can put wing foiling gear as well as kite gear or even SUP gear in my sedan. It is really not that I don't want to put in the effort to learn windsurfing just that it's not very realistic for me and I think that's the case for many people; I wouldn't confuse circumstances in people's lives with a lack of desire to learn something because it's difficult.
@@MikeMPharmaCyclist I've had a few windsurf lessons and hired a board the other day but I hate sports with lots of kit and windsurfing has lots of kit! so its the only thing that worries me is the carrying of said heavy kit overland to the water. Wing foiling i assume the kit is light and compact and its easy to learn, that said I would still like to windsurf, perhaps I'll just try both before buying any expensive kit.
I retired the windfoiling gear earlier this year. With a downwind board I can now get winging as early as my windfoiling friends. Flagging the wing and swell riding are the big draws with winging, with windfoiling I felt like I was just going straight back and forth. I still keep kiting gear for the occasional session, largely because it's nearly worthless on the second hand market now.
True! Swell riding is just great with wingfoiling. That's a big advantage over other water sports. Interesting that kiting gear is nearly worthless now, wow!
I've started windsurfing a few years ago at age 45. Bought very cheap used gear and taught myself. I've been enjoying it the whole way through, and I feel the best is still to come as I start playing in waves. Overall I think people tend to describe windsurf too much as a difficult sport to learn; but in my experience, if you're fit, and live in a place where you can practice regularly, this is all not such a big deal. However I would consider living near the sea as a prerequisite, first because the wind is usually stronger and more regular, and secondly because windsurfing on the sea is incomparable (even though I enjoy windsurfing on a lake's flat water too). A final remark: putting a foil on a windsurf is also an easy way to extend the wind range. Haven't tried it out yet.
Thanks for sharing your great story on having learnt windsurfing! Kudos for teaching yourself! In my opinion your success really depends on your access to good wind and your body weight. Where I live we get a lot of 10-15 knot days with fairly big chop. That means the best gear for my weight (88kg) would be >130L board with >8m² sail. That is very big gear to ride in big chop. If you either have stronger average wind, flatter water or less body weight, windsurfing can be great!
@@windaddict or you just enjoy the process. I started out on a lake with 10 to 15 kts, windsurfing about twice a month. Heck, I still have a 180l board and a 10 m2 sail. Switching to foiling, the smaller sails took some getting used to. For the longest time a 6.0 was my smallest sail and that one already felt like a toy. It's all a matter of perception.
Oh yes, weight plays a huge role and it's not talked about enough. People compare themselves with others that have a completely different weight and then wonder why the same sail and board size doesn't work for them
I have been windsurfing since 1988. I enjoyed longboarding a Mistral Equipe in 10 knots up to 35 knots on ab RRD Wave Cult 93 on a 3.5 or 4 meter sail. Since I started Wind Foiling in 2018, my wind minimums have dropped. I can now foil a 6.4m sail in 10-12 knots.
I've been windsurfing since 90s, but moved away from coast last 20 years. For the lake, the introduction of the foil was a great way to avoid Big kit. I couldn't decide to go wing or wind so I bought a board capable for either. I just about got the hang of windfoiling, but never in a relaxed state. Gusty winds inland making it a challenge. I've just bought a wing and had one go, hoping the ability to spill wind on a wing without upsetting foil balance will make it less of a catapult waiting to happen experience!
I'm really thankful for all the comments. There are many things I didn't address in my video. I just didn't want to ramble on for more than 20 minutes, not sure if people would want to listen for that long. :-D But several comments addressed windsurf foiling and as I said in my previous responses: you are absolutely right. I did not mention it. It can be a great option for many people. For me personally it's not the best option because of the gear being bigger, taking longer to rig up and not having the free "foiling in waves" sensation you can have with wingfoiling.
@@windaddict true. 90 percent of my water time, I'm on a lake. I fear in the long run, it's not that windsurfing is going to disappear, it's that watersports will fragment even more, which in turn will lead to less gear choice per discipline. The wing hype will plateau and then the next thing is going to come along. On lakes I see a lot of wingers whose slower speeds are bugging them. Maybe there will even be some transitions from winging to windfoiling once the honeymoon period is over.
I was a windsurfing instructor in the 90’s. Now I’m retired and feel a need to return to wind water sports. This has been a very helpful insight into wing foiling and has encouraged me to focus on wing foiling instead. I have to agree though, there is nothing more exhilarating than planing at high speed on a windsurfer! Just the memory of it makes me smile with joy. Thanks for your account.
I've windsurfed for 35 years and wingfoiled for the last couple (for 10-18knt days)...I very much agree with your assessment...I prefer to windsurf when it's 20+, but enjoy wing foiling in lighter winds -- windsurfing is jointly a power/speed/finesse activity (shortboarding) that's hard to beat, imo - but I look forward to improving in wing/wind foil...
I should have explained this better. My rating was more based on accessibility. With wingfoiling very "mediocre" wave conditions can be very fun. Any type / size of wave will do. With windsurfing you really need bigger and nicer waves (+wind) and I barely have access to that. In many years of windsurfing I had 2 days of true "wave windsurfing" and even then it was chaotic conditions, not nice sets of waves. If you live in Maui, you probably get tons of epic wave windsurfing.
More likely you should have separated shore break/reef brake waves from open ocean waves. Waves don't have to be very big to be a nightmare to get out or get in with a wing foil compared to a windsurfer. @@windaddict
While I agree with the "5" for windsurfing waves, it's not only the most niche wrt spots/conditions but also the most advanced skillset ever and that also counts into the "accessibility" category for me. While I have not tried wingfoiling yet, my second best for waves definitely is kitesurfing with a directional surfboard. You get the pure sensation of surfing swell directly, but the learning path is so much better. I rate it at 4.5, knowing it's out of competition :)
Most of the kitessurfers have gone over to foil in our area well they have a lot more sessions on foil , so I expect sales in kitesurf have taken a hit i dont know anyone who has bought kites in last few years and i guess kite prices will go up and wings will go up in price as it is probably supporting kite market . Great insite wing is very versatile 👌 and good for offshore winds .thanks for sharing have a great weekend. 😊
By the way, not sure it's easier to learn winging. Lots of people here have been at it for a while and are still struggling. Personally, it took me only 5 sessions to enjoy wind foiling. I have a wing and I'm still struggling with it. I have taught people to windsurf on a big board with dagger and in a couple of sessions they were having fun, and were independent granted on light wind. Good luck having someone on a wing be independent in just a couple of sessions 😂. It's much harder to control the third dimension when foiling because everything is so sensitive ( a slight mistake and one can loose the flight)
You are right!! The start to learning windsurfing is quite fun. Just learning the basics on a big board and a small sail (in lighter winds) is great and people tend to have success quickly. What I meant was more to get to a level where you can do waterstarts and where you are planing. That does take a long time. I should have specified that better. You are right that the foil and the third dimension can be challenging. However, I still think that learning how to plane consistently on a windsurf board takes a longer time than learning how to wing foil on beginner gear. But maybe I am wrong / biased. I only have my own experience and comments from others to draw from. Someone should do a real study about this! :-)
Cost May be a consideration why some will pick one spot over the other. But not really a debate if windsurfing will die because of winging. It’s more like 2 different activities which complement each other. No fun for most wingers in high wind & wave conditions where windsurfing tops winging every time. It’s just safer, faster. Yes to lesser wind conditions opening more spots/days to ride with winging. Very nice to ride both and not fall into the false debate of “that one is better than the other one”. Time on water is just bliss, regardless of the medium used.
I like your "glass half full" perspective on this! I agree with this mostly. However I am not sure about winging in high winds + waves. It's definitely possible in those conditions with the right gear. I haven't really tried it like that, so I don't how much fun that is.
I am 50 years old and doing kite surfing, I am looking for my next water sport for the upcoming years. your video really helped to understand that: wing foil is less exciting but more practical than windsurfing.
After the initial windsurfing boom in the 80’s, the focus of the sport shifted too much to the extreme side with superfast but overly complicated, expensive and large gear. While this serves a small niche, the majority of people just want to have fun on the water without too much hassle. This is exactly the reason why SUP, wingfoiling and kiteboarding are so popular nowadays. In order to bring windsurfing back to the masses, the sport desperately needs accessible and cheaper gear; Lightweight foldable / inflatable boards combined with inflatable sails (like the Duotone iRig) might be a solution. And then maybe one day, all these people on SUP's might realise that you can freely move on the water without any effort 😉
Did you mention that using a harness is fundamental to windsurfing. It's another thing to learn and high speed falls / falling in big waves when hooked in is definitely to be avoided. The upside is that the harness takes all the effort out of being fully powered up.
Very true. I also use a harness for wing foiling but there it is optional (unless you are racing). In windsurfing you have to manage the forces so much with the harness. Especially in strong winds it's a constant threat of getting slingshotted to the front.
Wing foiling has some advantages for sure, but like you said, there is nothing like the feeling of speed you get from windsurfing. I'm mostly wind foiling now because the wind where I live is usually not very good. Wind foiling has opened up a lot more days for me because it can be done in such light wind. I had a lot of trouble re-learning how to jibe with the wind foil kit though. That was quite a challenge (for me) and I'm still working on it. I have a wing too, and a wing foil board, but I have yet to really get the hang of that sport. Maybe this winter I'll work on it some more. I don't think wing foiling is going to replace windsurfing anytime soon. Maybe more people (like me) will take up wind foiling and the sport will evolve in that direction. It does seem like the PWA windsurfers are all mostly racing with foils these days. I remember when kiting got popular and everyone was saying windsurfing had been "canceled". That obviously did not happen. The two sports have coexisted side by side for many years, although I'm sure that kiting has overtaken windsurfing in popularity by now. I expect that windsurfing will continue alongside both kiting and wing foiling for a long time to come.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic! Glad to hear that windfoiling is getting you on the water many more days! I actually started my foiling journey with windfoiling myself and I never managed to do a jibe in our choppy waters here. For sure on the racing side of windsurfing foiling is the way to go (PWA, IQfoil at olympics). I prefer wingfoiling because of the small gear and the ease of jumping and waveriding. Good comment about kiting and windsurfing coexisting. I don't see windsurfing going away any time soon.
I have been doing kiteboarding & kitefoiling first for ~5 years and then wingfoiling last 2 years. Last summer sessions were maybe fifty-fifty between them. This year I have been mostly only wingfoiling, really great challenges to learn various jibes and foot swaps and tacks and waves! Also the wind directions are much more limited with kiteboarding in our city, especially this summer was bit of a bummer for kiteboarders. For wingfoiling we have spots for all wind direction within half hour or less drive.
Thanks for your comment. Yeah some of the most fun things to do in windsurfing and wingfoiling is learning new maneuvers. I imagined that this aspect is missing a bit from kiteboarding (have never tried it myself though). I am curious though why do certain wind directions not work for kiteboarding? Hard to launch the kite?
@@windaddict The kite requires a larger launch area and they are a bit rare nearby. Public beaches are prohibited during the summer season. Also kite is easier and safer with other kiters helping on launch and taking kite down. Wingfoil is easy and safe even on your own.
I may try wing foiling or wind foiling, just so I am qualified to express an opinion, but currently my lighter wind option is long board windsurfing. On my old Mistral Equipe I can have fun railing upwind in 5 knots, and the light wind practice helps my technique when shortboarding in strong winds. Long board also allows me to windsurf on a narrow shallow river, where foiling would be impossible. I am obsessed with windsurfing and will keep doing it for as long as I can draw breath and stand on a board.
I love your passion! I would actually love to try a long board at some point. I barely ever see them. I guess the only negative about it is the size / bulkiness for storage. But looking at some youtube videos it looks fun. And you can even plane on them! Do people rail them a lot to go upwind? How good are they in choppy conditions?
@@windaddict Railing longboards makes them go upwind very efficiently. The board naturally rails up (like a dinghy) against the resistance provided by the centreboard, and you have to use your weight to prevent the board from railing up onto it’s side. You can sail one in any wind conditions. In high winds they plane really well and do not get blown up off the water. They ride chop well. Being long and narrow. Old ones are very inexpensive. I paid £50 for my Mistral Equipe (1980s board) and £500 for a Starboard Phantom (over £4,000 new)
I’ve been windsurfing for 30 years + and love it, was hoping to pick up bargain windsurfing kit as people leave the sport (have shed loads already). BUT….am planning to have a try at Wing Foiling next year- so maybe like you, do both. Thanks for the well balanced video and summary!
Thanks a lot for your comment. Good luck starting your wing foiling adventure next year! Doing both windsurfing and wingfoiling (and having gear for both) is a luxury, takes up a good amount of storage space and may not be the wisest financial decision. But it's a lot of fun to be able to mix it up!
Great breakdown on the pros and cons of both sports. While windsurfing and winging are both super fun adrenaline sports, they each have their merits and downsides. Having done both, I have found kiteboarding was harder to learn initially than windsurfing (I started windsurfing in the 80s off Vancouver). I moved from windsurfing to kiting a few years ago... kiting required more skills and a larger beach and launch, and was like learning 2 sports at once (wakeboarding and flying a kite). But once kite skills and safety was learned, it was easier on the arms and felt like flying across the water weightless. I then even progressed from a twin tip board to a surfboard which adds a whole new dimension with waves and more! Winging however had a steeper initial learning curve to get up on foil vs wind surfing I think, but once you are up, able to go upwind and in control of your speed and turning, its all you will ever want to do. Also windsurfing and winging does not require as much space to launch as kiting, and high or low wind can be handled with the right gear choices. Here's a video I did of the comparison of kiting vs foiling too. ua-cam.com/video/LvN836ICnFo/v-deo.html
Great topic to discuss. I have been windsurfing for 18 years got frustrated with not enough wind all the time switched to kite in 2010 - that was a miracle. Much more fun and less wind needed, but still I had to travel to the sea shore for 4 hours. Now I am winging at the lake that is inland spot 600 m from my house. I have fun at 12 kts, which is great. I think winging will replace windsurfing at every low wind spot. This sport has great potential for newcomers and also people who already windsurf or kite. I am the best example. If I need adrenaline I go kiting at the sea, but still more hours I spend on my wing not far from my house without the need to drive 4 to the sea shore. At the end the best thing - short chop is not annoying anymore :) You fly over it :))))
After getting good at wing foiling, after a couple months, I started to get hooked on the swell in the bay, flagging the wing out and starting to surf. Year two and everything is gearing towards getting out in the open ocean. I need 10+ winds on a lake to get on a foil. Can’t do that on a windsurfer. It’s just an evolution, I started windsurfing 40 years ago, times just change. Forget about pumping, where you don’t even need a wing which I’m dabbling with too.
I started windsurfing at 10 years old. I learned kite surfing because i wanted to plane in lighter conditions but it is very restrictive as you need plenty of space and same help to launch. I have done 4 session of wingfoil but I must say nothing compares to windsurf.
One of the main thing (at least at on my home spot) is that older guy with a great level in windsurf takes the wing as a light wind toy. They never really try to push it. And so then end up finding it boring (but ride big foil 1500CM2 and more…) I can assure you it is as challenging and hard than windsurfing if you try smaller foil and board. I recently pushed around 30knot. On a wingfoil so we can really say it’s slow 😂. Overall two different sport, but the wing has just so much versatility. On the same session i can freeride getting jibe’s and tacks back to back never stopping. After this i find some wave to surf. I can jump, and find a flat area to push the speed, on the same gear (just over 10kg for the whole thing) but you need to be a bit more energetic than windsurf with maybe less strengh.
You make a lot of good points. But I'm like the older guy you describe. I use wingfoiling for light wind, because that's the conditions I have at home. When I go on a trip to stronger wind spots, I like to windsurf just to mix it up.
Not the first time when windsurfing is close to collapse as a sport, but possible the last. I can't imagine any young person with truck full of gear who will learn planning jibe for a 8 years as me while friends will do any kind of waveriding and expirienced freestyle in 2-3 years winging. I started winging as a light wind option, but after trying it in nuking conditions with 2.8 wing I sold all windsurf gear immediately))) cause in nuke day most of windsurfers spend half of the time to change sails/boards, trim it and restart after failed maneurs and tricks... While wingers just go and ride-ride-ride infinite waves often being almost dry. The sport without young blood has no future.
What I agree with is that most young people will probably choose wing foiling over windsurfing. However I recently met some fairly young windsurfers, so not everyone will adhere to this. I had one wingfoil day in fairly strong and super gusty conditions. Wasn't too much fun but my gear also wasn't perfect for that. Windsurfing can be a lot of fun in nuking conditions, at least for me. Sure you don't get most maneuvers. But I enjoy the challenge and overall battle. As mentioned in the video, just going in a straight line + jumping alone can be really fun. I still want to try wingfoiling in nuking conditions with the right gear though.
@@windaddictI've always felt shame when I was a windsurfer that kiters can easily change direction without stop in any condition and even pro-windsurfers often fail jibe in chop (no good waves in my home-spots). That shame made me try wing. Better lightwind and compact gear were just an additional arguments to an epic opportunity of fluid surfing without fails at every turn)) Windsurfing gear instead of wingfoiling don't help you to surf... Board always imbalances due to chop, sail always overpowered on onshore/sideonshore wave... This is a dance, but your partner don't want to dance and always angry cause need more comfortable environment. If you often have access to perfect flat and side-offshore waves, windsurfing is a great partner. But if not... always be a newbie is very painful))
Regarding kiters changing direction at any point: that actually drives me crazy! :-D Especially if you happen to windsurf or wingfoil behind them, because you never know if they switch direction without checking behind them. Windsurfing is great fun in flat water. In bump and jump conditions or the "wrong" waves it can be very challenging as you say. There are some very good windsurfers who do succed with maneuvers all the time in the harshest conditions. I remember seeing some in Tarifa who really impressed me. However, I do get your point and not many windsurfers talk about this frequent struggle. At the end of the day it's a question if you enjoy / embrace the challenge or if something like wingfoiling is just the better sport for you. It seems like you found the right sport for yourself with wingfoiling.
I had an epic season today second time on my new board. Even my wife were impressed. However there were just not enough wind to get up on the foil. But I got up every time and could balance true the wind hulls. I’m old time speed windsurfer. Leucate la franqui. WC. I started winging this summer have not be on the fine for a long time. However I have holes in all my wings now except the new one that I have not used. So my 20 Yea NP RX 1 still works, I have new KA speed sails. So I can’t claim the wings are more durable then my sail's. Looking forward to my first wave still I have a long way to go. I only use 6.4 and 6.3 on my small slalom board or speed board. We have wind on Lista or no wind I had a 8,4 and used it only one time (in one year time) at this spot. Too many windsurfer start the wrong way. 1 learn to windsurfer where there is shallow sail over to the other side turn the board around and sail back. 2. Learn to water start. 3 learn to water start in very little wind, using a floating west really help on doing quick water start. 4. go out in real wind. The easiest boar to jibe is my speed board when you learn how to do it. Same on slalom board you need speed. Also you don’t need to learn to jibe in the beginning just have fun.
great comparison, thanks you! I think the starting weight of the rider is absolutely key...I have a good friend who weighs 65kg and he planes in windsurf / flies on the wingfoil in pretty much any conditions. For someone like yourself, approaching 90kg, it's a TOTALLY different story, and you need huge equipment in light winds, in particular for windsurfing...makes wingfoiling that much more appealing for heavier riders...these new 8m Duotone Ventis or CWC light-wind wings are apparently amazing...
Thanks James! Great comment! You are so right! The impact rider weight has on gear size is huge and not talked about enough. Some people don't even know about it and then compare themselves to much lighter riders, choosing the wrong gear for a session. I actually want to make a separate video about this. Regarding big 8m² wings: check out my recent review of a 9m² wing. I think the future for light wind is narrow long boards + big foils, not big wings.
I think the comparison here isnt the same. Us windsurfers usually started out on big longish boards with dagger boards and small sails on inland waters in the mid 80's to mid 90's with a F2 or F3 blowing. Since then the kit has evolved to suit high speed costal sailing and those inland centres have long since closed down. Beginners need higher volumes than we think, 200L even for light weights.
A very long time ago, all of my windsurfing gear was stolen. Despite being addicted to the sport, I couldn't afford to get new gear. Also, the lack of "good" conditions and the countless hours and days I spent on the beach just hoping the wind to pick up are innumerable. At the start of my career, I just didn't have that time anymore. But you can't imagine how much I missed the sea and the waves. I'm 60 years old now, and I think Wing Foiling might be the ideal sport for me. I don't expect to get the same thrill as Windsurfing gave me, but that's okay; I'm older and way more relaxed.
Wind foiling (windsurf foiling) is the ticket too. I can fly with 8mph using an 8.1. The sweet spot is 10 to 15mph for me. If wind gets really stronger I go on fin. With windsurfing you can go to lots of places and come back safely as long as the wind doesn't drop completely. Here all the people who have learned winging do not venture too far away.
Good point! I didn't even address windsurf foiling in this video. I was doing that for a while on a freestyle board (foil ready fin box). This is how I got into foiling. You really need dedicated windsurf foil boards to enjoy that I think (I tried that once and it worked better than my freestyle board). What I don't like about it is that the gear tends to be quite big again and it takes a long time to rig everything up. Also in wingfoiling you have the advantage on waves (can easily depower the wing). But for foil "blasting" windsurf foiling can be great.
Longtime windsurfer, tried kite and didn't like it. The idea of being away from my power source never much convinced me. The easy of carrying gear was not enough to compensate the feeling, so I went straight back to windsurfing and never looked back. Then wingfoiling came up and I started seeing some nice points. Like windsurfing, it keeps my gear compactly within range, like kiting it allows for fun with much less wind and it's easy to carry. Like neither of the two, it allows you to stop sailing, depower and find the occasional long wave to just surf. I'm into wingfoiling, but I'll always have my windsurfing kit ready.
Odd that you didn't mention windfoil at all, at my home spot there are a few windfoilers out in as low as 6 knots ripping around on foil. Now granted their boards are the size of a small sail boat but they seem to be having fun when all of us kite foilers and wing foilers are struggling.
You are right, I should have talked about windfoiling in the video! Several other comments pointed that out as well. You are saying windfoilers have better low wind range than kite foilers? That's a surprise! I always viewed the kitefoilers as the "light wind kings". But it seems that with the new downwind boards and giant high-aspect foils (130cm to 190cm wingspan), wingfoiling will be possible in barely any wind.
In my spot the windfoilers are the kings of low wind for sure. 2nd are kitefoilers but once it gets down below 8 knots the winds get a little funky and they end up swimming in. There area few of us that have DW boards (I'm one) but wings are still struggling below 8 knots. We have a couple moths that can do pretty well in low winds too, they're probably actually 2nd behind windfoilers.
Good question but in my experience and in discussions with windsurfers location is a key factor in determining which option is best for you. In SW Florida experienced windsurfers are transitioning to wind foiling. We also have a very strong IQ Olympic class training program in Clearwater. Wing foiling is very popular but if your location doesn’t have gusty winds and decent waves and regular light winds I would suggest windsurfers check out wind foiling.
You are probably right, it depends on your location. I tried wind foiling but didn't have the best gear for it. Wing foiling is better for the conditions we get here but I bet windfoiling is nice in flatter water.
Windsurf. Feeling for me is about the contact with water. I also do windfoiling in light wind but there is no comparison. So wing foiling doesn't attract me a lot. I'm heavy, +90kg, but with a camless light 10 i can plane in 10-12 knots, and us a fantastic sensation. Wing foil... Not with shallow waters, not with seaweeds...
Yes the contact with the water in windsurfing is amazing! A 10m² sail? Wow, that's huge. In flat water it may still be fun, but I just don't like the inertia of very big sails when doing maneuvers.
Good video - From dedicated kitesurfer, surfer who has limited experience in windsurf( mainly holiday rental on the beach) the switch to wingfoil was mixed emotions - it took 4 x 2hr sessions with good equipment and instructor to get on foil and stay on foil at will. Kite actually is more compact and easier to get on the beach, agree lines are a problem in densely populated beaches - we can however launch and land safely on our own as most of the equipment now has huge depower and easier to control. Kiteboard is super easy for changing directions - I think once you have about 50 to 100hrs on water and know the kite you can go in most water conditions like wave, chop etc. The wind is like windsurfing a major factor for kites in whether you struggle on the water or not - it can be overcome with switching to a bigger board(or even kitefoil) and sometimes a bigger kite - but bigger sails are much harder to keep flying in light winds as they are slower to generate apperent wind(moving the kite rapidly in the window). The sweet spot is probably 9m to 12m kite - with 7m and 14m starting to be too twitchy or too slow. Worth starting on wingfoil - yes - gets you out on more days - equipement is a little less stressful but equally dangerous because of the foil. Agree that once you have a good level on kitesurf/windsurf your less likely to give it up completely for wingfoil - I think as you progress and get the better and the returns on your investment in terms of time and pleasure - I could see that I would possibly given the ability for most wind conditions favour wingfoil. Plus for kitesurf - more compact and lighter to get equipment on the beach - easier to transition directions - board is more forgiving in terms of weight distribution and mistakes - easy to jump - no board leash required - we can also self rescue into shore without the board - sensation and interaction with water is much closer, you can be on any part of the wave without exploding - equally as safe or dangerous as wingfoil its lines vs foil / and wingfoil maybe equally banned depending on beach - works in shallow water and deep water. Plus for Wingfoil - more accepted in some beaches - bigger wind range - good payoff in terms of progression once on foil - magic carpet sensation on foil is great - good entry point into other foil sports - kitefoil, surffoil, paddle foil /downwind etc For beginners I would recommend trying any water/board/sports with an instructor (they usually supply good equipement with the lesson) so that you can at least understand your own connection with that sport and whether its worth your time and effort. I had seen wingfoil for few years and had hesitated doing it for while - new equipement starting from scratch etc.....the lessons with equipment, advice and the tips and tricks the instructor gave me made getting on foil much shorter. The success on any of these sports is based on your own motivation, desire and commitment. The first 6hrs of wingfoil involved a lot of cursing, explosions and adaptations but I am planning on continuing.
Hi Simon. Thank you so much for your detailed description, this is really interesting! I agree with most of what you say (though I don't know anything about kitesurfing). I thought that kitesurfing also works in fairly light winds, but it seems the big kites are not as fun to use (similar to big windsurf sails). Good to see you are venturing into wingfoiling. And you are right, starting to wingfoil comes with its own challenges.
@@windaddict I think the kitefoil board allows for lighter wind and smaller kites that are more agile, manufacturers have now even removed as much weight as possible by having 3 struts or no struts and lighter construction materials. These specialty foil kites are made to stay in air with minimal wind but may not be as resistant if they drop in the waves.
Yeah really worth the watch. So on point but pulling off tacks onto breaking wave faces in wingfoil is a rush and you downplay the skills and ability required for these types of moves. There is so much technical progression in wingfoiling (and adjustment) with the equipment that can be in the realm of a pilots knowledge. Overall great video 🎉
Most windsurfers need to try much smaller foils than your average wingfoiler when winging or its just too slow - something in the 500-800 cm2 range is great and opens up 25+ knots of board speed (top guys are hitting 35 knots). there are very few foils over 1000cm2 that can even hit 20 knots. Big foils are great for surfing small waves and learners but @85kg body weight my 760cm2 axis art 951 is now my light wind foil. Saying that I'm still keeping my windsurf slalom board for 35knots+.
Well if your #1 priority is speed and you have lots of wind, yes. But at my home spot that's not so practical with lots of chop and light winds most days
Here in Italy I am seeing another interesting trend. After an initial wave of wingfoilers I see more and more kitefoilers. In many spots kitefoilers are now outnumbering the wingfoilers.
Interesting, at the spots I go to it isn't like that. I feel like kitefoiling was definitely there before wingfoiling. I hear it is hard to learn so I don't expect a lot of watersport beginners to go straight to kitefoiling.
Wave riding on windsurfer is sooo much different than on a foil. One can be much more aggressive and use the wave to compensate when wind is otherwise marginal.. Just watch videos of the two activities to see the differences. Waveriding on windsurfer 5, on foil 2 or 3!!!!!! Foil waveriding is on swell well away from lips and white water. Also, safety! Wingfoiling folks get hurt a lot!!! Windsurfing is more physical than foiling, and one can complain about that, OR, see it as an opportunity to get fitter.
It's a matter of perspective. Windsurfing in waves is much harder to learn and needs much better conditions. So it is a bit "elitist" in a way. But of course it's amazing when it does work out. Wingfoiling in waves is more accessible and also fun in "bad" conditions and non-breaking waves. There are awesome videos for both sports. Check out this clip of Cash Berzolla wingfoiling a wave and tell me it's not awesome: instagram.com/reel/C0UrPo8L_Ks/?igsh=OXdwMWN6bndwdTRt
Wow, that's a wide range for windfoiling! I tried it a little bit but didn't like it too much in choppy waters. If we had flatter waters it would probably be nice.
I've been a windsurfer from the early beginnings of the windsurfing era (1980..), freestyle, division II, then fun boards and I reckon that the fun (what one says as FUN) in windsurfing actually starts at 25 kt with a 5.2 or 4.7 m2 sail. All the rest is yeah, meh, (just) ok.. 20 years ago I switched to kitesurfing, where the fun starts slightly below at, let's say, 20 kt. But yeah, kitesurfing is a challenge as you need someone to help you launch the kite but, most importantly, kiting in Spain (and in the whole of Europe as far as I know) is forbidden from June 1st. until September 15th, unless you kite before 08:00 am and after 19:00 pm, which is almost impossible. Where I live (a county known as Maresme, north of Barcelona), there are only two beaches where kiting is allowed during summer, and that makes the experience a nightmare as kiting among a crowd of kites is a horrible experience. So here I am now, I took a few days ago my first wing foiling lesson and hope to be able to make the thing work by the time the kitesurfing ban comes into force. Thanks for the video, great watch!
I also live in Maresme. Yeah kiting is not really a good option here. Glad to hear you are picking up wing foiling! You'll be a true waterman after mastering all these sports. Glad you enjoyed the video!
@@MrTynanDraper It was banned over 20 years ago due to the possibility of uncontrolled kites being dragged on the beach full of people (and the danger that the nylon lines pose) and kiters being dragged too. Despite 90% of us being careful when launching the kite on the beach and kiting beyond the marked zone, there are always some kiter as*holes who have no regard for rules and people.
While the wingfoill equipment is smaller and easier to transport, I don't agree that it's easier to set up. I can rig my windsurf gear and be on the water in under 5 minutes from arriving at the spot if I want. By the time I get the foil mast on the fuselage, the foil connected to the board properly etc it takes way longer to get the foil on the water. Unless you have the luxury of a van where you can leave the stuff assembled the whole time, but then that creates it's own problems too.
It takes me 5 minutes just to put on my wetsuit, impact vest, harness, helmet, sunscreen, deal with car key etc. So 5 min setup time for any gear is unrealistic. With windsurfing it depends. If you have small gear it can be fast. With bigger gear and parked far from the water it can be a nightmare
@@windaddict all depends, I've actually gone from driving into the car park to walking my rigged gear to the water with windsurf gear in less than 5 mins. Granted it was a board shorts location and I don't wear a helmet or buoyancy aid when sailing and key is on a lanyard around my neck. The point is the rigging a sail is faster if you are used to it. There are videos out there of guys rigging sails in under 2 mins. Pumping a wing alone takes as long if not longer for me than putting a mast up, downhauling, putting the boom on and getting going. Granted this means I have the fin(s) already on my board but I am rigged and ready to go in the time it takes me to get the wing out and pump it and with wing gear I still have to put the foil together and that is a Pfaff.
Ok then you perfected the process. You can do the same thing in winging. You can get an electric pump for the wing. You can have front wing, fuse and stab already connected. Then screwing on the mast and the foil will take you 2 minutes while the wing is being pumped up in parallel.
Windsurfing it’s the best water sport I have done. The filing of excitement and happiness that I get at 20 knots plus it’s something can’t be described,using small sails size and small boards . All of my free time it’s About were is the best spot to surf and finding myself driving 2 or 5 hours just for surfing . I also infected my son with this virus of windsurfing and the joy its double surfing together
Wow, your comment oozes passion for windsurfing. I love it! :-) A week ago I spent 5 hours in the car on one day just to be able to get one good windsurf session in. So I feel you! Loved your comment about sharing the joy with your son too. I have two little girls and can't wait for the day I can share a session on the water with them!
Great video...the only problem is that you don't speak about windfoiling that help a lot to keep windsurfing. Why not speaking about it. That will change your ranking.
Thanks! I have a lot of experience with windsurfing and wingfoiling so a simple comparison of those two disciplines made sense for me. I have done some windfoiling but didn't really like it. Big gear, not good for waves and jumping. Wingfoiling seems to be the more popular sport and is more fun for me, at least at my choppy homespot. But surely you will find other comparisons of windsurfing and windfoiling on youtube.
Just to mention 1 point you forgot in this great comparisson. Windsurfing is much more challenging for your knees and ankles. You still see some silver agers windsurfing, but over 60 years its maybe only the GOAT Robby Naish. From my opinion its no problem to do wingfoiling with 80 years or older. ( We will see 🙂)
Thank you! Actually I see quite a lot of old windsurfers at the spot where I go on vacation. They are definitely older than 60. So it seems to be ok. Maybe not to go in really nasty chop. In the German windsurf magazine "surf" they recently had an article about a windsurfer who was older than 80 I think. You are right that wingfoiling will be softer on the joints though.
Talk to yourself 😊. I am 59 and half and will come back to you with my report next year. So far, so good, came from Karphatos, wind 20 - 30 knots. Still alive.
Unless riding waves, I found foiling (with a wing or windfoil) just boring to me after an hour on the water. Not enough action, not enough speed, too mellow for me. I need more adrenaline rush! Yes, windsurfing is harder to get into but like anything these days, if people can’t get quick results, then they move on to something else. But regardless of either wingfoiling or windsurfing I’d say, if you dont enjoy the process of learning, with its challenges, frustrations and intense rewards, then don’t bother with any of these sports.
In wingfoiling you can also go for jumps, learning new maneuvers and/or speed. Check out Johnny Heineken wingfoiling, it's inspiring. But you are right, you need to embrace the learning process with all its challenges, no matter what sport you do.
This debate about which water sport is growing (or not) needs to be seen in a wider context. All water sports are destined not to grow, as long as (and all of a sudden) a new generation of "Baby Boomers" comes into being, and counteracts the current (de) population debacle seen across the "Global North" (i.e. the prime market for water sports). This is why windsurfing communities are predominantly comprised of middle-aged and elderly men (be it German or otherwise). Wing foiling may be the "New new" and may (thankfully) be attracting a wider audience, but again this may prove to be a largely temporary phenomenon. ...And I haven´t even addressed the issue of inflationary pressures (above and beyond what we have been used to in the last 3 decades) which continues to "test" disposable incomes. This sport may be unique, radical, cool (or what have you) but it ain´t cheap. All this doesn´t sound very cheery but it is what it is.
You have some good points there. I do believe that wingfoiling attracts more people across age groups and that it will be a more lasting positive trend. Regarding cost: Yes, most water sports are insanely expensive. With wing foiling you can get some starter kits for very good prices though. But once you get better and outgrow the starter gear you better be ready to whip out your wallet. This is the main reason I stick with Gong gear. Other brands are too expensive for my taste.
The windsurfers on this thread are living in the jurassic period. Yes, they are dinosaurs.unless you are in high winds and bigger surf, there is no reason to windsurf .the next time you do a planning tack on a windsurfer, you will be stoked because you have never done one, ha ha.with wingfoiling you tack almost everytime. Never coming off foil.so much more fun period.
you're missing some important points: -Wingfoiling is not suitable if you have problems with the neck, shoulder or knees. Winging without changing the foot-direction - there the first vertebral issue's on the beaches and physiotherapy. and -I'm Windfoiling with dedicated Courserace and SL-Windfoil stuff - so all Highaspect. I have all advantages of windfoiling (e.g. no swimming through low wind areas like Kite and Wing-foil), significant better low wind performance than Windfoiling and generally 5-15 km faster than Winging (with Low- to Mid-Aspect Foil-Gear). In waves it depends on your abbilities and material. Winging is easier for downwind wave riding - but with a dedicated small windfoil board (i used PD 105 ltr and now a Flikka custom Windfoil board) it's a wunderful new field for me. After 40 years Windsurfing (SL and Wave), I went for only Windfoiling in the last 5 years. I learnt Winging 2022, too, but except the downwind wave riding with Winging I don't see any advantage.
I have back and sometimes neck and knee issues myself. For me wing foiling is easier on my body than windsurfing. In windsurfing your body has to absorp the impacts from chop. Also the way waist harnesses pull on my back is not ideal (a seat harness works great though). Regarding wingfoiling switch stance: yeah I absolutely do not understand how people do it this much. Some people do it exclusively (i.e. never switch their feet). That is SO uncomfortable. I always switch my feet. Yes, windsurf foiling can be a great option, especially if you like speed / racing. I should have mentioned it in the video! This is actually how I got into foiling, but I made the mistake of not having a dedicated windsurf foiling board. I personally don't like it because the gear is so much bigger, takes longer to rig up and you lose the great "foiling in waves" sensation that wingfoiling can give you and you mentioned in your comment. But I'm sure windsurf foiling can be a lot of fun too. Your gear (small windfoil board) sounds very interesting.
What are you talking about????? Windsurfing is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SPOR and direct feel for SAILING! Requires techniqe, physical acconditioning. The feeling of raiiling the board and jibing makes it so unique. I tried foiling and its a joke!!!!!! Yes, it easier and BORING after 1/2 hr! The worst part is when a f...winger cuts you off on the waves! Be real man! YOU CAN T mix pears with apples!
I actually started foiling with windfoiling. However I used a foil-ready freestyle board. I didn't like it too much. I tried a dedicated windfoiling board once and it was better. However I don't like the gear being big and wingfoiling works much better on waves.
I disagree :-) It will be a smaller niche in watersports, sure. For example when kitesurfing first started, many people probably proclaimed windsurfing dead and it didn't die. And I don't think it'll die now.
@@gregcalhoon3503 not me I have 2018 windsurfing equipment used only three times if I don’t get my price every thing goes in the wood chipper today windsurfing sails are 800 bucks iam selling my for 350 if windsurfer’s think there going to pay only hundred or two not with me I will destroy the equipment before sell it for practically nothing kite foiling /winging /dock pumping beach foiling rule fuck windsurfing foiling
Great video. I've been windsurfing for 25 years before switching to wingfoiling last year but I refuse to get rid of my windsurfing gear. Like you say, that speed sensation of windsurfing just cannot be beat and is indescribable. I am quite happy having a session just blasting back and forth as that is just so exhilarating. Doing the same wingfoiling can become quite boring quickly - even though the mechanics of it are quite amazing that you are 'flying' over the water - it just does not have the same sensation. So for me, I have to keep pushing myself with wingfoiling to learn new things to keep it exciting. The other great plus for wingfoiling is it opens so many more launch locations that you just wouldn't consider for windsurfing - you hardly need any rigging area and tight launch spaces are worries. Also, as you don't need consistent wind, you can sail in areas with a lot of obstruction (buildings, trees, etc.). This has opened up several more sailing locations for me just in my local area. So for me, wingfoiling will be my go to sport for time on water - UNLESS the forecast looks perfect for a windsrufing session!
Thanks a lot! Your experience seems to be very similar to mine and you raise some good points. It's good to hold on to the windsurf gear for those high wind sessions and if you don't have storage constraints.
I wingfoiled 9 sessions back to back, end of season week winds, plus learning to jibe and getting used to new gear- until I had 2 days at a nearby wave and strong wind spot on my windsurf gear. Windsurfing is honestly the best sport bar none. Winging is cool until it’s challenging (also annoyingly so) but for general cruising in low winds I prefer Windsurf Foiling.
Flying over the water is amazing on the foil is amazing, but being able to surf on foil, even on a 110L board, you can’t do it on a windsurfer.
@@robsinHLabsolutely. The wave 🌊 after wave …gybing back out to the next breaker and nailing a tack onto the face then foiling a tiny 600 ha in the pocket is bliss
As cool as foiling is, windsurfing is still the best sport. Maybe difficulties at the begining are too much for some but its no really so hard if you put some time in it. I can windsurf in 12 inches of water where with foil you have start at the chest level of water ( in colder waters this is big no no for me). the sound of slicing/skipping over the water with speed gives you another mental rush .Foiling is just another sport and cannot compare these two. Windsurfers can pick up foiling fairly easy but can not be said otherwise. Two differen animals.
Great comment! Thanks!
And yet so many windsurfers never went near kiteboarding. I think most were intimidated by having to completely start over with a steep learning curve. Kiteboarding blew the doors off windsurfing in terms of variety and excitement on the water, not to mention ease of gear transport and simplicity
I looove windsurfing and kitesurfing as well. Both very much in contact with the water. I love the sensation of the water in both.
Wingfoiling still haven't caught me completely (about 10 times out and foiling well). I really miss the sensation of contact with the water. It frustrates me somehow, and even when fully powered feels SO boring compared to wind/kite-surfing. Wingfoiling feels disconnected from the water somehow. Almost like gliding through thin air. I mean it is fascinating to try. BUT the sensation seemed to change radically when I suddenly surfed a soft wave with my foil. Finally I got a biiig fat smile on my face, what I have been missing so far.
Wingfoiling for me seems all about the waves.
Windsurfing and kitesurfing needs no waves to be fun, and both always makes smile (when the wind is enough of course)
There's just something magic about windsurfing especially.. that sensation of leaning back and accellerating like a rocket just over the water, always brings a big crazy smile on the face... That's my real passion. Even after mostly kiting for 14 years.
No matter what we are privileged to be able to go do what we love out in the big blue. 🙂🤙
I think you nailed it with your analysis. I'm a long time windsurfer and love carving the board through the water, especially when wave sailing. I'll be possibly moving to a lower wind spot in the next 6 months, thus am thinking about winging as there is no windsurf scene there as majority of time it is light winds. My first and foremost thoughts are about using a wing to catch anything that looks like a wave or swell.
@@brianmckenzie1318 light wind wingfoiling is more realistic and more fun the less you weigh (because of board, foul and wing size). Of course a big board, wing and foil will get you going, but it does feel a bit clumsy in my opinion.
Worth it though if there are some waves to play in.
I surf with two guys who still love cruising in light wind without waves. They only weigh about 60-65 kilos though, and a 5m wing gets them going where I struggle with a 7
But better being on the water than not at all 🙂🤙
I know the feeling of wanting that windsurfing sensation and missing it at first with wingfoiling. But wingfoiling grows on you, especially with waves as you say.
Hi. I've practised wavesailing for 25 years and now learning wingfoiling after windfoiling. In my opinion, though I'm in a very satisfying learning phase of wingfoiling, wavesailing with side shore winds and some waves is unbeatable. I've also practised kitesurfing in waves and nothing to do with it. I prefer wingfoiling than windfoiling because of the freedom feeling, not uphauling , easier to launch from any spot.... Comparing wingfoiling and wavesailing: You don't need to cross the sets swimming until foil mast depth. Much easier and less risky in and outs. Surfing in contact with the wave better. Recovery in case of a fall in the middle of the sets is much easier and faster in windsurfing. I spend the same or less time to rig the sail than assembling the foil. The hand wing weights much less than the sail but the wingboard with the foil weights more than the waveboard. To sum up, I will wingfoil in light winds and flat/small waves and windsurfing in medium and strong winds and medium and big waves.
Wavesailing in windsurfing does look amazing. I never experienced good conditions for it myself unfortunately. Here in the mediterranean that's hard to get. Portugal, UK, Denmark, etc are surely better. Where do you live? You make some good points about windsurfing vs wingfoiling in waves. I hadn't thought of that. At my homespot the water gets deep super fast so I just lift the wingfoil gear over the first shorebreak and can get going immediately. But actually good wave spots wouldn't be like that, so what you say makes sense. But a big shorebreak can be scary with both windsurfing and wingfoiling, at least for me. Your summary is good, at the end of the day the sports complement each other.
I agree with the comment from @tate2863. There is nothing that compares to windsurfing waves. It is like true surf without the hassle to row. Living in Portugal/Guincho I prefer to stick to windsurf every time wind allows it (more than 14 knots since my biggest wave sail is a 5.4). For sure when it is light I would go for kitesurfing or wingfoiling (by this order, since kiting with a surfboard is my preference compared to wingfoiling). I also note that with a 14.5m kite I am able to ride in 10 knots; less than that only with kitefoiling or wingfoiling. Cheers.
Living in Portugal you have access to amazing conditions! I'm jealous 😉
Thank you for the video, very nice discussion about two different disciplines! Personally I'm not interested in wingfoiling, or foiling in general, nothing against the sport but it just does not spark me up. For me its windsurfing, with all the challenges, gear transporting and years of training, frustration, happiness, bliss, anger, and so on! It is interesting to think about the bigger picture, how windsurfing really takes a lot of patience and time when wingfoiling is faster to learn (so they say). And then compare it to the world in general, where everything should be possible to get instantly with as little effort as possible. If something does not work 100% at least on your second try you just switch to something else, instead of learning patiently.
I picked up windsurfing after a big health scare. My wife is still worried every time I go out. Windsurfing is not just a sport you pick up. It's an outlook on life and a lesson in philosophy. All the difficulties you mentioned are actually the whole point. Adding a foil to my windsurfing board just gives you more options to be on the water. It might be a difficult sell these days.
Probably a lot of windsurfers feel like you. Once you have dedicated years to it and embraced it fully with all its challenges, it becomes more than a sport, it becomes a passion
100%! Even sailing…it’s not easy, not small, not cheap…. Still people do it, and LOVE it.
I think you are misreading many of us who prefer wing foiling and are trying to learn it like myself. I honestly think windsurfing looks pretty neat and looks awesome with the speed and there are some amazing deals on gear these days, but the reality is with a family and a life outside of this I have little time and so for that reason Wing foiling is a lot more approachable. It's easier to get my gear to the beach easier to store the gear and just generally seems a bit easier to learn. I can put wing foiling gear as well as kite gear or even SUP gear in my sedan.
It is really not that I don't want to put in the effort to learn windsurfing just that it's not very realistic for me and I think that's the case for many people; I wouldn't confuse circumstances in people's lives with a lack of desire to learn something because it's difficult.
@@MikeMPharmaCyclist I've had a few windsurf lessons and hired a board the other day but I hate sports with lots of kit and windsurfing has lots of kit! so its the only thing that worries me is the carrying of said heavy kit overland to the water. Wing foiling i assume the kit is light and compact and its easy to learn, that said I would still like to windsurf, perhaps I'll just try both before buying any expensive kit.
I retired the windfoiling gear earlier this year. With a downwind board I can now get winging as early as my windfoiling friends. Flagging the wing and swell riding are the big draws with winging, with windfoiling I felt like I was just going straight back and forth. I still keep kiting gear for the occasional session, largely because it's nearly worthless on the second hand market now.
True! Swell riding is just great with wingfoiling. That's a big advantage over other water sports. Interesting that kiting gear is nearly worthless now, wow!
I’m really loving Wind foiling in as many conditions as I can.
I've started windsurfing a few years ago at age 45. Bought very cheap used gear and taught myself. I've been enjoying it the whole way through, and I feel the best is still to come as I start playing in waves. Overall I think people tend to describe windsurf too much as a difficult sport to learn; but in my experience, if you're fit, and live in a place where you can practice regularly, this is all not such a big deal. However I would consider living near the sea as a prerequisite, first because the wind is usually stronger and more regular, and secondly because windsurfing on the sea is incomparable (even though I enjoy windsurfing on a lake's flat water too).
A final remark: putting a foil on a windsurf is also an easy way to extend the wind range. Haven't tried it out yet.
Thanks for sharing your great story on having learnt windsurfing! Kudos for teaching yourself! In my opinion your success really depends on your access to good wind and your body weight. Where I live we get a lot of 10-15 knot days with fairly big chop. That means the best gear for my weight (88kg) would be >130L board with >8m² sail. That is very big gear to ride in big chop. If you either have stronger average wind, flatter water or less body weight, windsurfing can be great!
@@windaddict or you just enjoy the process. I started out on a lake with 10 to 15 kts, windsurfing about twice a month. Heck, I still have a 180l board and a 10 m2 sail. Switching to foiling, the smaller sails took some getting used to. For the longest time a 6.0 was my smallest sail and that one already felt like a toy. It's all a matter of perception.
@@slickvisualpoetry True, you get used to big gear. I have no doubt you can have fun with big gear on a lake
@@windaddictwith your argument on body weight you surely have a point. I'm around 70 kg. The biggest sail i've ever used is 6.5 m2.
Oh yes, weight plays a huge role and it's not talked about enough. People compare themselves with others that have a completely different weight and then wonder why the same sail and board size doesn't work for them
I have been windsurfing since 1988. I enjoyed longboarding a Mistral Equipe in 10 knots up to 35 knots on ab RRD Wave Cult 93 on a 3.5 or 4 meter sail. Since I started Wind Foiling in 2018, my wind minimums have dropped. I can now foil a 6.4m sail in 10-12 knots.
Foiling is a game changer
I've been windsurfing since 90s, but moved away from coast last 20 years. For the lake, the introduction of the foil was a great way to avoid Big kit. I couldn't decide to go wing or wind so I bought a board capable for either. I just about got the hang of windfoiling, but never in a relaxed state. Gusty winds inland making it a challenge. I've just bought a wing and had one go, hoping the ability to spill wind on a wing without upsetting foil balance will make it less of a catapult waiting to happen experience!
Good point, I also had that feeling with windfoiling. If the wind gets too strong it is hard to manage. Wingfoiling should be better suited for that.
@@windaddictI can now wind foil in just about any conditions. Duck jibes, 360’s and foiling jibes are my current favorite moves.
I just added a foil to my windsurfing gear. Evens out the low wind issue
Was out in 8 kts with an 8.5 and a windfoil. Good stuff.
I'm really thankful for all the comments. There are many things I didn't address in my video. I just didn't want to ramble on for more than 20 minutes, not sure if people would want to listen for that long. :-D
But several comments addressed windsurf foiling and as I said in my previous responses: you are absolutely right. I did not mention it. It can be a great option for many people.
For me personally it's not the best option because of the gear being bigger, taking longer to rig up and not having the free "foiling in waves" sensation you can have with wingfoiling.
@@windaddict true. 90 percent of my water time, I'm on a lake. I fear in the long run, it's not that windsurfing is going to disappear, it's that watersports will fragment even more, which in turn will lead to less gear choice per discipline. The wing hype will plateau and then the next thing is going to come along. On lakes I see a lot of wingers whose slower speeds are bugging them. Maybe there will even be some transitions from winging to windfoiling once the honeymoon period is over.
I was a windsurfing instructor in the 90’s. Now I’m retired and feel a need to return to wind water sports. This has been a very helpful insight into wing foiling and has encouraged me to focus on wing foiling instead. I have to agree though, there is nothing more exhilarating than planing at high speed on a windsurfer! Just the memory of it makes me smile with joy. Thanks for your account.
Loved your comment! Windsurfing planing is awesome, but wing foiling is a new world. Good luck!
I've windsurfed for 35 years and wingfoiled for the last couple (for 10-18knt days)...I very much agree with your assessment...I prefer to windsurf when it's 20+, but enjoy wing foiling in lighter winds -- windsurfing is jointly a power/speed/finesse activity (shortboarding) that's hard to beat, imo - but I look forward to improving in wing/wind foil...
Well said, thanks for sharing!
Surfing waves should be a definite 5 for windsurfing, there is nothing better. :)
I should have explained this better. My rating was more based on accessibility. With wingfoiling very "mediocre" wave conditions can be very fun. Any type / size of wave will do. With windsurfing you really need bigger and nicer waves (+wind) and I barely have access to that. In many years of windsurfing I had 2 days of true "wave windsurfing" and even then it was chaotic conditions, not nice sets of waves. If you live in Maui, you probably get tons of epic wave windsurfing.
More likely you should have separated shore break/reef brake waves from open ocean waves. Waves don't have to be very big to be a nightmare to get out or get in with a wing foil compared to a windsurfer. @@windaddict
While I agree with the "5" for windsurfing waves, it's not only the most niche wrt spots/conditions but also the most advanced skillset ever and that also counts into the "accessibility" category for me.
While I have not tried wingfoiling yet, my second best for waves definitely is kitesurfing with a directional surfboard. You get the pure sensation of surfing swell directly, but the learning path is so much better. I rate it at 4.5, knowing it's out of competition :)
@@IceAce1 yes, wave windsurfing is no joke!
Most of the kitessurfers have gone over to foil in our area well they have a lot more sessions on foil , so I expect sales in kitesurf have taken a hit i dont know anyone who has bought kites in last few years and i guess kite prices will go up and wings will go up in price as it is probably supporting kite market . Great insite wing is very versatile 👌 and good for offshore winds .thanks for sharing have a great weekend. 😊
Thanks for your comment. Yes it would be very interesting to see kite vs windsurf vs wingfoil gear sales over the past years.
By the way, not sure it's easier to learn winging. Lots of people here have been at it for a while and are still struggling.
Personally, it took me only 5 sessions to enjoy wind foiling. I have a wing and I'm still struggling with it.
I have taught people to windsurf on a big board with dagger and in a couple of sessions they were having fun, and were independent granted on light wind.
Good luck having someone on a wing be independent in just a couple of sessions 😂. It's much harder to control the third dimension when foiling because everything is so sensitive ( a slight mistake and one can loose the flight)
You are right!! The start to learning windsurfing is quite fun. Just learning the basics on a big board and a small sail (in lighter winds) is great and people tend to have success quickly. What I meant was more to get to a level where you can do waterstarts and where you are planing. That does take a long time. I should have specified that better.
You are right that the foil and the third dimension can be challenging. However, I still think that learning how to plane consistently on a windsurf board takes a longer time than learning how to wing foil on beginner gear.
But maybe I am wrong / biased. I only have my own experience and comments from others to draw from. Someone should do a real study about this! :-)
Cost May be a consideration why some will pick one spot over the other. But not really a debate if windsurfing will die because of winging. It’s more like 2 different activities which complement each other. No fun for most wingers in high wind & wave conditions where windsurfing tops winging every time. It’s just safer, faster. Yes to lesser wind conditions opening more spots/days to ride with winging. Very nice to ride both and not fall into the false debate of “that one is better than the other one”. Time on water is just bliss, regardless of the medium used.
I like your "glass half full" perspective on this! I agree with this mostly. However I am not sure about winging in high winds + waves. It's definitely possible in those conditions with the right gear. I haven't really tried it like that, so I don't how much fun that is.
I am 50 years old and doing kite surfing, I am looking for my next water sport for the upcoming years.
your video really helped to understand that:
wing foil is less exciting but more practical than windsurfing.
Glad my video was helpful! Thanks for your comment!
After the initial windsurfing boom in the 80’s, the focus of the sport shifted too much to the extreme side with superfast but overly complicated, expensive and large gear. While this serves a small niche, the majority of people just want to have fun on the water without too much hassle. This is exactly the reason why SUP, wingfoiling and kiteboarding are so popular nowadays. In order to bring windsurfing back to the masses, the sport desperately needs accessible and cheaper gear; Lightweight foldable / inflatable boards combined with inflatable sails (like the Duotone iRig) might be a solution. And then maybe one day, all these people on SUP's might realise that you can freely move on the water without any effort 😉
Did you mention that using a harness is fundamental to windsurfing. It's another thing to learn and high speed falls / falling in big waves when hooked in is definitely to be avoided.
The upside is that the harness takes all the effort out of being fully powered up.
Very true. I also use a harness for wing foiling but there it is optional (unless you are racing). In windsurfing you have to manage the forces so much with the harness. Especially in strong winds it's a constant threat of getting slingshotted to the front.
Wing foiling has some advantages for sure, but like you said, there is nothing like the feeling of speed you get from windsurfing.
I'm mostly wind foiling now because the wind where I live is usually not very good. Wind foiling has opened up a lot more days for me because it can be done in such light wind. I had a lot of trouble re-learning how to jibe with the wind foil kit though. That was quite a challenge (for me) and I'm still working on it. I have a wing too, and a wing foil board, but I have yet to really get the hang of that sport. Maybe this winter I'll work on it some more.
I don't think wing foiling is going to replace windsurfing anytime soon. Maybe more people (like me) will take up wind foiling and the sport will evolve in that direction. It does seem like the PWA windsurfers are all mostly racing with foils these days.
I remember when kiting got popular and everyone was saying windsurfing had been "canceled". That obviously did not happen. The two sports have coexisted side by side for many years, although I'm sure that kiting has overtaken windsurfing in popularity by now. I expect that windsurfing will continue alongside both kiting and wing foiling for a long time to come.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic! Glad to hear that windfoiling is getting you on the water many more days! I actually started my foiling journey with windfoiling myself and I never managed to do a jibe in our choppy waters here. For sure on the racing side of windsurfing foiling is the way to go (PWA, IQfoil at olympics). I prefer wingfoiling because of the small gear and the ease of jumping and waveriding. Good comment about kiting and windsurfing coexisting. I don't see windsurfing going away any time soon.
I have been doing kiteboarding & kitefoiling first for ~5 years and then wingfoiling last 2 years. Last summer sessions were maybe fifty-fifty between them. This year I have been mostly only wingfoiling, really great challenges to learn various jibes and foot swaps and tacks and waves! Also the wind directions are much more limited with kiteboarding in our city, especially this summer was bit of a bummer for kiteboarders. For wingfoiling we have spots for all wind direction within half hour or less drive.
Thanks for your comment. Yeah some of the most fun things to do in windsurfing and wingfoiling is learning new maneuvers. I imagined that this aspect is missing a bit from kiteboarding (have never tried it myself though). I am curious though why do certain wind directions not work for kiteboarding? Hard to launch the kite?
@@windaddict The kite requires a larger launch area and they are a bit rare nearby. Public beaches are prohibited during the summer season. Also kite is easier and safer with other kiters helping on launch and taking kite down. Wingfoil is easy and safe even on your own.
Good point!
I may try wing foiling or wind foiling, just so I am qualified to express an opinion, but currently my lighter wind option is long board windsurfing. On my old Mistral Equipe I can have fun railing upwind in 5 knots, and the light wind practice helps my technique when shortboarding in strong winds.
Long board also allows me to windsurf on a narrow shallow river, where foiling would be impossible.
I am obsessed with windsurfing and will keep doing it for as long as I can draw breath and stand on a board.
I love your passion! I would actually love to try a long board at some point. I barely ever see them. I guess the only negative about it is the size / bulkiness for storage. But looking at some youtube videos it looks fun. And you can even plane on them! Do people rail them a lot to go upwind? How good are they in choppy conditions?
@@windaddict Railing longboards makes them go upwind very efficiently. The board naturally rails up (like a dinghy) against the resistance provided by the centreboard, and you have to use your weight to prevent the board from railing up onto it’s side.
You can sail one in any wind conditions. In high winds they plane really well and do not get blown up off the water. They ride chop well. Being long and narrow.
Old ones are very inexpensive. I paid £50 for my Mistral Equipe (1980s board) and £500 for a Starboard Phantom (over £4,000 new)
50?? Now I'm intrigued 🤔 And they work well with modern rigs/sails?
@@windaddict Yes I use my normal shortboard sails. Typically 8 or 9 metre.
I’ve been windsurfing for 30 years + and love it, was hoping to pick up bargain windsurfing kit as people leave the sport (have shed loads already). BUT….am planning to have a try at Wing Foiling next year- so maybe like you, do both. Thanks for the well balanced video and summary!
Thanks a lot for your comment. Good luck starting your wing foiling adventure next year! Doing both windsurfing and wingfoiling (and having gear for both) is a luxury, takes up a good amount of storage space and may not be the wisest financial decision. But it's a lot of fun to be able to mix it up!
Great breakdown on the pros and cons of both sports. While windsurfing and winging are both super fun adrenaline sports, they each have their merits and downsides. Having done both, I have found kiteboarding was harder to learn initially than windsurfing (I started windsurfing in the 80s off Vancouver). I moved from windsurfing to kiting a few years ago... kiting required more skills and a larger beach and launch, and was like learning 2 sports at once (wakeboarding and flying a kite). But once kite skills and safety was learned, it was easier on the arms and felt like flying across the water weightless. I then even progressed from a twin tip board to a surfboard which adds a whole new dimension with waves and more! Winging however had a steeper initial learning curve to get up on foil vs wind surfing I think, but once you are up, able to go upwind and in control of your speed and turning, its all you will ever want to do. Also windsurfing and winging does not require as much space to launch as kiting, and high or low wind can be handled with the right gear choices. Here's a video I did of the comparison of kiting vs foiling too. ua-cam.com/video/LvN836ICnFo/v-deo.html
Thank you! Great comparison and insights vs kiting, which I never tried!
@@windaddict Thanks for your kind words! :)
Great topic to discuss.
I have been windsurfing for 18 years got frustrated with not enough wind all the time switched to kite in 2010 - that was a miracle. Much more fun and less wind needed, but still I had to travel to the sea shore for 4 hours. Now I am winging at the lake that is inland spot 600 m from my house. I have fun at 12 kts, which is great. I think winging will replace windsurfing at every low wind spot. This sport has great potential for newcomers and also people who already windsurf or kite. I am the best example. If I need adrenaline I go kiting at the sea, but still more hours I spend on my wing not far from my house without the need to drive 4 to the sea shore. At the end the best thing - short chop is not annoying anymore :) You fly over it :))))
Great example of situations where wingfoiling is the best choice due to light winds!
After getting good at wing foiling, after a couple months, I started to get hooked on the swell in the bay, flagging the wing out and starting to surf. Year two and everything is gearing towards getting out in the open ocean. I need 10+ winds on a lake to get on a foil. Can’t do that on a windsurfer. It’s just an evolution, I started windsurfing 40 years ago, times just change. Forget about pumping, where you don’t even need a wing which I’m dabbling with too.
Yep, that's getting into wingfoiling in a nutshell. Sounds like you are enjoying yourself!
@@windaddict most of the time, when up, yep!
I started windsurfing at 10 years old. I learned kite surfing because i wanted to plane in lighter conditions but it is very restrictive as you need plenty of space and same help to launch. I have done 4 session of wingfoil but I must say nothing compares to windsurf.
That's why I called it winner of the heart in the video ❤️
Winner of the heart - that tells it all 😊
For sure! ❤️ Thanks for watching until the end 😉
Very cool. I see , and feel it, the same way. Thanks for sharing. I guess we'll have to do both for the years to come.
Thank you! Yes, looks like we are stuck switching between 2 sports for now :)
One of the main thing (at least at on my home spot) is that older guy with a great level in windsurf takes the wing as a light wind toy. They never really try to push it. And so then end up finding it boring (but ride big foil 1500CM2 and more…) I can assure you it is as challenging and hard than windsurfing if you try smaller foil and board. I recently pushed around 30knot. On a wingfoil so we can really say it’s slow 😂. Overall two different sport, but the wing has just so much versatility. On the same session i can freeride getting jibe’s and tacks back to back never stopping. After this i find some wave to surf. I can jump, and find a flat area to push the speed, on the same gear (just over 10kg for the whole thing) but you need to be a bit more energetic than windsurf with maybe less strengh.
You make a lot of good points. But I'm like the older guy you describe. I use wingfoiling for light wind, because that's the conditions I have at home. When I go on a trip to stronger wind spots, I like to windsurf just to mix it up.
I windsurfed Cape Hatteras, Florida, the Gorge and the Great Lakes for the last 30 years. Now I am wind foiling to my hearts content wherever I want.
Awesome to hear!!
Not the first time when windsurfing is close to collapse as a sport, but possible the last. I can't imagine any young person with truck full of gear who will learn planning jibe for a 8 years as me while friends will do any kind of waveriding and expirienced freestyle in 2-3 years winging. I started winging as a light wind option, but after trying it in nuking conditions with 2.8 wing I sold all windsurf gear immediately))) cause in nuke day most of windsurfers spend half of the time to change sails/boards, trim it and restart after failed maneurs and tricks... While wingers just go and ride-ride-ride infinite waves often being almost dry. The sport without young blood has no future.
What I agree with is that most young people will probably choose wing foiling over windsurfing. However I recently met some fairly young windsurfers, so not everyone will adhere to this. I had one wingfoil day in fairly strong and super gusty conditions. Wasn't too much fun but my gear also wasn't perfect for that. Windsurfing can be a lot of fun in nuking conditions, at least for me. Sure you don't get most maneuvers. But I enjoy the challenge and overall battle. As mentioned in the video, just going in a straight line + jumping alone can be really fun. I still want to try wingfoiling in nuking conditions with the right gear though.
@@windaddictI've always felt shame when I was a windsurfer that kiters can easily change direction without stop in any condition and even pro-windsurfers often fail jibe in chop (no good waves in my home-spots). That shame made me try wing. Better lightwind and compact gear were just an additional arguments to an epic opportunity of fluid surfing without fails at every turn)) Windsurfing gear instead of wingfoiling don't help you to surf... Board always imbalances due to chop, sail always overpowered on onshore/sideonshore wave... This is a dance, but your partner don't want to dance and always angry cause need more comfortable environment. If you often have access to perfect flat and side-offshore waves, windsurfing is a great partner. But if not... always be a newbie is very painful))
Regarding kiters changing direction at any point: that actually drives me crazy! :-D Especially if you happen to windsurf or wingfoil behind them, because you never know if they switch direction without checking behind them. Windsurfing is great fun in flat water. In bump and jump conditions or the "wrong" waves it can be very challenging as you say. There are some very good windsurfers who do succed with maneuvers all the time in the harshest conditions. I remember seeing some in Tarifa who really impressed me. However, I do get your point and not many windsurfers talk about this frequent struggle. At the end of the day it's a question if you enjoy / embrace the challenge or if something like wingfoiling is just the better sport for you. It seems like you found the right sport for yourself with wingfoiling.
I had an epic season today second time on my new board. Even my wife were impressed. However there were just not enough wind to get up on the foil. But I got up every time and could balance true the wind hulls. I’m old time speed windsurfer. Leucate la franqui. WC. I started winging this summer have not be on the fine for a long time. However I have holes in all my wings now except the new one that I have not used. So my 20 Yea NP RX 1 still works, I have new KA speed sails. So I can’t claim the wings are more durable then my sail's. Looking forward to my first wave still I have a long way to go. I only use 6.4 and 6.3 on my small slalom board or speed board. We have wind on Lista or no wind I had a 8,4 and used it only one time (in one year time) at this spot. Too many windsurfer start the wrong way. 1 learn to windsurfer where there is shallow sail over to the other side turn the board around and sail back. 2. Learn to water start. 3 learn to water start in very little wind, using a floating west really help on doing quick water start. 4. go out in real wind. The easiest boar to jibe is my speed board when you learn how to do it. Same on slalom board you need speed. Also you don’t need to learn to jibe in the beginning just have fun.
Wow, speed surfing in La Franqui! That's awesome, I've been there many times. Thanks for your comment! Good advice on how to start windsurfing!
great comparison, thanks you! I think the starting weight of the rider is absolutely key...I have a good friend who weighs 65kg and he planes in windsurf / flies on the wingfoil in pretty much any conditions. For someone like yourself, approaching 90kg, it's a TOTALLY different story, and you need huge equipment in light winds, in particular for windsurfing...makes wingfoiling that much more appealing for heavier riders...these new 8m Duotone Ventis or CWC light-wind wings are apparently amazing...
Thanks James! Great comment! You are so right! The impact rider weight has on gear size is huge and not talked about enough. Some people don't even know about it and then compare themselves to much lighter riders, choosing the wrong gear for a session. I actually want to make a separate video about this. Regarding big 8m² wings: check out my recent review of a 9m² wing. I think the future for light wind is narrow long boards + big foils, not big wings.
I think the comparison here isnt the same. Us windsurfers usually started out on big longish boards with dagger boards and small sails on inland waters in the mid 80's to mid 90's with a F2 or F3 blowing. Since then the kit has evolved to suit high speed costal sailing and those inland centres have long since closed down. Beginners need higher volumes than we think, 200L even for light weights.
Yeah, times and gear have changed
A very long time ago, all of my windsurfing gear was stolen. Despite being addicted to the sport, I couldn't afford to get new gear. Also, the lack of "good" conditions and the countless hours and days I spent on the beach just hoping the wind to pick up are innumerable. At the start of my career, I just didn't have that time anymore. But you can't imagine how much I missed the sea and the waves. I'm 60 years old now, and I think Wing Foiling might be the ideal sport for me. I don't expect to get the same thrill as Windsurfing gave me, but that's okay; I'm older and way more relaxed.
You should try it! It's different, but great!
@@windaddict I have booked a trial lesson next Wednesday. Very curious how it will turn out.
Wind foiling (windsurf foiling) is the ticket too. I can fly with 8mph using an 8.1. The sweet spot is 10 to 15mph for me. If wind gets really stronger I go on fin.
With windsurfing you can go to lots of places and come back safely as long as the wind doesn't drop completely. Here all the people who have learned winging do not venture too far away.
Good point! I didn't even address windsurf foiling in this video. I was doing that for a while on a freestyle board (foil ready fin box). This is how I got into foiling. You really need dedicated windsurf foil boards to enjoy that I think (I tried that once and it worked better than my freestyle board). What I don't like about it is that the gear tends to be quite big again and it takes a long time to rig everything up. Also in wingfoiling you have the advantage on waves (can easily depower the wing). But for foil "blasting" windsurf foiling can be great.
Longtime windsurfer, tried kite and didn't like it. The idea of being away from my power source never much convinced me. The easy of carrying gear was not enough to compensate the feeling, so I went straight back to windsurfing and never looked back. Then wingfoiling came up and I started seeing some nice points. Like windsurfing, it keeps my gear compactly within range, like kiting it allows for fun with much less wind and it's easy to carry. Like neither of the two, it allows you to stop sailing, depower and find the occasional long wave to just surf. I'm into wingfoiling, but I'll always have my windsurfing kit ready.
Nice summary! I can relate to that
Odd that you didn't mention windfoil at all, at my home spot there are a few windfoilers out in as low as 6 knots ripping around on foil. Now granted their boards are the size of a small sail boat but they seem to be having fun when all of us kite foilers and wing foilers are struggling.
You are right, I should have talked about windfoiling in the video! Several other comments pointed that out as well. You are saying windfoilers have better low wind range than kite foilers? That's a surprise! I always viewed the kitefoilers as the "light wind kings". But it seems that with the new downwind boards and giant high-aspect foils (130cm to 190cm wingspan), wingfoiling will be possible in barely any wind.
In my spot the windfoilers are the kings of low wind for sure. 2nd are kitefoilers but once it gets down below 8 knots the winds get a little funky and they end up swimming in. There area few of us that have DW boards (I'm one) but wings are still struggling below 8 knots. We have a couple moths that can do pretty well in low winds too, they're probably actually 2nd behind windfoilers.
Interesting! Thanks for your reply!
Good question but in my experience and in discussions with windsurfers location is a key factor in determining which option is best for you. In SW Florida experienced windsurfers are transitioning to wind foiling. We also have a very strong IQ Olympic class training program in Clearwater. Wing foiling is very popular but if your location doesn’t have gusty winds and decent waves and regular light winds I would suggest windsurfers check out wind foiling.
You are probably right, it depends on your location. I tried wind foiling but didn't have the best gear for it. Wing foiling is better for the conditions we get here but I bet windfoiling is nice in flatter water.
Windsurf. Feeling for me is about the contact with water. I also do windfoiling in light wind but there is no comparison. So wing foiling doesn't attract me a lot. I'm heavy, +90kg, but with a camless light 10 i can plane in 10-12 knots, and us a fantastic sensation. Wing foil... Not with shallow waters, not with seaweeds...
Yes the contact with the water in windsurfing is amazing! A 10m² sail? Wow, that's huge. In flat water it may still be fun, but I just don't like the inertia of very big sails when doing maneuvers.
Good video - From dedicated kitesurfer, surfer who has limited experience in windsurf( mainly holiday rental on the beach) the switch to wingfoil was mixed emotions - it took 4 x 2hr sessions with good equipment and instructor to get on foil and stay on foil at will. Kite actually is more compact and easier to get on the beach, agree lines are a problem in densely populated beaches - we can however launch and land safely on our own as most of the equipment now has huge depower and easier to control. Kiteboard is super easy for changing directions - I think once you have about 50 to 100hrs on water and know the kite you can go in most water conditions like wave, chop etc. The wind is like windsurfing a major factor for kites in whether you struggle on the water or not - it can be overcome with switching to a bigger board(or even kitefoil) and sometimes a bigger kite - but bigger sails are much harder to keep flying in light winds as they are slower to generate apperent wind(moving the kite rapidly in the window). The sweet spot is probably 9m to 12m kite - with 7m and 14m starting to be too twitchy or too slow.
Worth starting on wingfoil - yes - gets you out on more days - equipement is a little less stressful but equally dangerous because of the foil. Agree that once you have a good level on kitesurf/windsurf your less likely to give it up completely for wingfoil - I think as you progress and get the better and the returns on your investment in terms of time and pleasure - I could see that I would possibly given the ability for most wind conditions favour wingfoil.
Plus for kitesurf
- more compact and lighter to get equipment on the beach
- easier to transition directions
- board is more forgiving in terms of weight distribution and mistakes
- easy to jump
- no board leash required
- we can also self rescue into shore without the board
- sensation and interaction with water is much closer, you can be on any part of the wave without exploding
- equally as safe or dangerous as wingfoil its lines vs foil / and wingfoil maybe equally banned depending on beach
- works in shallow water and deep water.
Plus for Wingfoil
- more accepted in some beaches
- bigger wind range
- good payoff in terms of progression once on foil
- magic carpet sensation on foil is great
- good entry point into other foil sports - kitefoil, surffoil, paddle foil /downwind etc
For beginners I would recommend trying any water/board/sports with an instructor (they usually supply good equipement with the lesson) so that you can at least understand your own connection with that sport and whether its worth your time and effort. I had seen wingfoil for few years and had hesitated doing it for while - new equipement starting from scratch etc.....the lessons with equipment, advice and the tips and tricks the instructor gave me made getting on foil much shorter. The success on any of these sports is based on your own motivation, desire and commitment. The first 6hrs of wingfoil involved a lot of cursing, explosions and adaptations but I am planning on continuing.
Hi Simon. Thank you so much for your detailed description, this is really interesting! I agree with most of what you say (though I don't know anything about kitesurfing). I thought that kitesurfing also works in fairly light winds, but it seems the big kites are not as fun to use (similar to big windsurf sails). Good to see you are venturing into wingfoiling. And you are right, starting to wingfoil comes with its own challenges.
@@windaddict I think the kitefoil board allows for lighter wind and smaller kites that are more agile, manufacturers have now even removed as much weight as possible by having 3 struts or no struts and lighter construction materials. These specialty foil kites are made to stay in air with minimal wind but may not be as resistant if they drop in the waves.
Yeah really worth the watch. So on point but pulling off tacks onto breaking wave faces in wingfoil is a rush and you downplay the skills and ability required for these types of moves. There is so much technical progression in wingfoiling (and adjustment) with the equipment that can be in the realm of a pilots knowledge. Overall great video 🎉
Thanks so much for your kind words. True, there is a lot to learn with wing foiling!
Most windsurfers need to try much smaller foils than your average wingfoiler when winging or its just too slow - something in the 500-800 cm2 range is great and opens up 25+ knots of board speed (top guys are hitting 35 knots). there are very few foils over 1000cm2 that can even hit 20 knots. Big foils are great for surfing small waves and learners but @85kg body weight my 760cm2 axis art 951 is now my light wind foil. Saying that I'm still keeping my windsurf slalom board for 35knots+.
Well if your #1 priority is speed and you have lots of wind, yes. But at my home spot that's not so practical with lots of chop and light winds most days
Wing foiling has replaced windsurfing at Topanga Beach in Malibu. I’m the last windsurfer there.
Wow that's crazy to hear! So you can claim the title "the last windsurfer of Malibu". That's pretty cool! ;-)
Here in Italy I am seeing another interesting trend. After an initial wave of wingfoilers I see more and more kitefoilers. In many spots kitefoilers are now outnumbering the wingfoilers.
Interesting, at the spots I go to it isn't like that. I feel like kitefoiling was definitely there before wingfoiling. I hear it is hard to learn so I don't expect a lot of watersport beginners to go straight to kitefoiling.
Wave riding on windsurfer is sooo much different than on a foil. One can be much more aggressive and use the wave to compensate when wind is otherwise marginal.. Just watch videos of the two activities to see the differences. Waveriding on windsurfer 5, on foil 2 or 3!!!!!! Foil waveriding is on swell well away from lips and white water. Also, safety! Wingfoiling folks get hurt a lot!!!
Windsurfing is more physical than foiling, and one can complain about that, OR, see it as an opportunity to get fitter.
It's a matter of perspective. Windsurfing in waves is much harder to learn and needs much better conditions. So it is a bit "elitist" in a way. But of course it's amazing when it does work out. Wingfoiling in waves is more accessible and also fun in "bad" conditions and non-breaking waves. There are awesome videos for both sports. Check out this clip of Cash Berzolla wingfoiling a wave and tell me it's not awesome: instagram.com/reel/C0UrPo8L_Ks/?igsh=OXdwMWN6bndwdTRt
Meanwhilw Wind(surf) foiling is my nr 1. From 8 - 28 knots. Above its still windsurfing.
Winging didnt catch me so far. Altough i got the gear…
Wow, that's a wide range for windfoiling! I tried it a little bit but didn't like it too much in choppy waters. If we had flatter waters it would probably be nice.
I've been a windsurfer from the early beginnings of the windsurfing era (1980..), freestyle, division II, then fun boards and I reckon that the fun (what one says as FUN) in windsurfing actually starts at 25 kt with a 5.2 or 4.7 m2 sail. All the rest is yeah, meh, (just) ok.. 20 years ago I switched to kitesurfing, where the fun starts slightly below at, let's say, 20 kt. But yeah, kitesurfing is a challenge as you need someone to help you launch the kite but, most importantly, kiting in Spain (and in the whole of Europe as far as I know) is forbidden from June 1st. until September 15th, unless you kite before 08:00 am and after 19:00 pm, which is almost impossible. Where I live (a county known as Maresme, north of Barcelona), there are only two beaches where kiting is allowed during summer, and that makes the experience a nightmare as kiting among a crowd of kites is a horrible experience. So here I am now, I took a few days ago my first wing foiling lesson and hope to be able to make the thing work by the time the kitesurfing ban comes into force. Thanks for the video, great watch!
I also live in Maresme. Yeah kiting is not really a good option here. Glad to hear you are picking up wing foiling! You'll be a true waterman after mastering all these sports. Glad you enjoyed the video!
What's the reason given for banning kiting in most of Europe? Too many accidents?
@@MrTynanDraper It was banned over 20 years ago due to the possibility of uncontrolled kites being dragged on the beach full of people (and the danger that the nylon lines pose) and kiters being dragged too. Despite 90% of us being careful when launching the kite on the beach and kiting beyond the marked zone, there are always some kiter as*holes who have no regard for rules and people.
you forgot to mention foil wind surfing
You are absolutely right, I should have mentioned it!
While the wingfoill equipment is smaller and easier to transport, I don't agree that it's easier to set up. I can rig my windsurf gear and be on the water in under 5 minutes from arriving at the spot if I want. By the time I get the foil mast on the fuselage, the foil connected to the board properly etc it takes way longer to get the foil on the water. Unless you have the luxury of a van where you can leave the stuff assembled the whole time, but then that creates it's own problems too.
It takes me 5 minutes just to put on my wetsuit, impact vest, harness, helmet, sunscreen, deal with car key etc. So 5 min setup time for any gear is unrealistic. With windsurfing it depends. If you have small gear it can be fast. With bigger gear and parked far from the water it can be a nightmare
@@windaddict all depends, I've actually gone from driving into the car park to walking my rigged gear to the water with windsurf gear in less than 5 mins. Granted it was a board shorts location and I don't wear a helmet or buoyancy aid when sailing and key is on a lanyard around my neck. The point is the rigging a sail is faster if you are used to it. There are videos out there of guys rigging sails in under 2 mins. Pumping a wing alone takes as long if not longer for me than putting a mast up, downhauling, putting the boom on and getting going. Granted this means I have the fin(s) already on my board but I am rigged and ready to go in the time it takes me to get the wing out and pump it and with wing gear I still have to put the foil together and that is a Pfaff.
Ok then you perfected the process. You can do the same thing in winging. You can get an electric pump for the wing. You can have front wing, fuse and stab already connected. Then screwing on the mast and the foil will take you 2 minutes while the wing is being pumped up in parallel.
Windsurfing it’s the best water sport I have done.
The filing of excitement and happiness that I get at 20 knots plus it’s something can’t be described,using small sails size and small boards .
All of my free time it’s About were is the best spot to surf and finding myself driving 2 or 5 hours just for surfing .
I also infected my son with this virus of windsurfing and the joy its double surfing together
Wow, your comment oozes passion for windsurfing. I love it! :-) A week ago I spent 5 hours in the car on one day just to be able to get one good windsurf session in. So I feel you! Loved your comment about sharing the joy with your son too. I have two little girls and can't wait for the day I can share a session on the water with them!
Great video...the only problem is that you don't speak about windfoiling that help a lot to keep windsurfing. Why not speaking about it. That will change your ranking.
Thanks! I have a lot of experience with windsurfing and wingfoiling so a simple comparison of those two disciplines made sense for me. I have done some windfoiling but didn't really like it. Big gear, not good for waves and jumping. Wingfoiling seems to be the more popular sport and is more fun for me, at least at my choppy homespot. But surely you will find other comparisons of windsurfing and windfoiling on youtube.
Just to mention 1 point you forgot in this great comparisson. Windsurfing is much more challenging for your knees and ankles. You still see some silver agers windsurfing, but over 60 years its maybe only the GOAT Robby Naish. From my opinion its no problem to do wingfoiling with 80 years or older. ( We will see 🙂)
Thank you! Actually I see quite a lot of old windsurfers at the spot where I go on vacation. They are definitely older than 60. So it seems to be ok. Maybe not to go in really nasty chop. In the German windsurf magazine "surf" they recently had an article about a windsurfer who was older than 80 I think. You are right that wingfoiling will be softer on the joints though.
Talk to yourself 😊. I am 59 and half and will come back to you with my report next year. So far, so good, came from Karphatos, wind 20 - 30 knots. Still alive.
@@jlampe64 Nice! 🤙🏻
Than See you next year in Tarifa between 30-40 knots 😘@@jlampe64
I'm curious why you left windfoiling out of the picture and don't seem to have gotten into that yourself
Unless riding waves, I found foiling (with a wing or windfoil) just boring to me after an hour on the water. Not enough action, not enough speed, too mellow for me. I need more adrenaline rush! Yes, windsurfing is harder to get into but like anything these days, if people can’t get quick results, then they move on to something else. But regardless of either wingfoiling or windsurfing I’d say, if you dont enjoy the process of learning, with its challenges, frustrations and intense rewards, then don’t bother with any of these sports.
In wingfoiling you can also go for jumps, learning new maneuvers and/or speed. Check out Johnny Heineken wingfoiling, it's inspiring. But you are right, you need to embrace the learning process with all its challenges, no matter what sport you do.
This debate about which water sport is growing (or not) needs to be seen in a wider context. All water sports are destined not to grow, as long as (and all of a sudden) a new generation of "Baby Boomers" comes into being, and counteracts the current (de) population debacle seen across the "Global North" (i.e. the prime market for water sports). This is why windsurfing communities are predominantly comprised of middle-aged and elderly men (be it German or otherwise). Wing foiling may be the "New new" and may (thankfully) be attracting a wider audience, but again this may prove to be a largely temporary phenomenon.
...And I haven´t even addressed the issue of inflationary pressures (above and beyond what we have been used to in the last 3 decades) which continues to "test" disposable incomes. This sport may be unique, radical, cool (or what have you) but it ain´t cheap.
All this doesn´t sound very cheery but it is what it is.
You have some good points there. I do believe that wingfoiling attracts more people across age groups and that it will be a more lasting positive trend. Regarding cost: Yes, most water sports are insanely expensive. With wing foiling you can get some starter kits for very good prices though. But once you get better and outgrow the starter gear you better be ready to whip out your wallet. This is the main reason I stick with Gong gear. Other brands are too expensive for my taste.
The windsurfers on this thread are living in the jurassic period. Yes, they are dinosaurs.unless you are in high winds and bigger surf, there is no reason to windsurf .the next time you do a planning tack on a windsurfer, you will be stoked because you have never done one, ha ha.with wingfoiling you tack almost everytime. Never coming off foil.so much more fun period.
You certainly have a strong opinion 😉
you're missing some important points:
-Wingfoiling is not suitable if you have problems with the neck, shoulder or knees. Winging without changing the foot-direction - there the first vertebral issue's on the beaches and physiotherapy.
and
-I'm Windfoiling with dedicated Courserace and SL-Windfoil stuff - so all Highaspect. I have all advantages of windfoiling (e.g. no swimming through low wind areas like Kite and Wing-foil), significant better low wind performance than Windfoiling and generally 5-15 km faster than Winging (with Low- to Mid-Aspect Foil-Gear).
In waves it depends on your abbilities and material. Winging is easier for downwind wave riding - but with a dedicated small windfoil board (i used PD 105 ltr and now a Flikka custom Windfoil board) it's a wunderful new field for me.
After 40 years Windsurfing (SL and Wave), I went for only Windfoiling in the last 5 years. I learnt Winging 2022, too, but except the downwind wave riding with Winging I don't see any advantage.
I have back and sometimes neck and knee issues myself. For me wing foiling is easier on my body than windsurfing. In windsurfing your body has to absorp the impacts from chop. Also the way waist harnesses pull on my back is not ideal (a seat harness works great though). Regarding wingfoiling switch stance: yeah I absolutely do not understand how people do it this much. Some people do it exclusively (i.e. never switch their feet). That is SO uncomfortable. I always switch my feet.
Yes, windsurf foiling can be a great option, especially if you like speed / racing. I should have mentioned it in the video! This is actually how I got into foiling, but I made the mistake of not having a dedicated windsurf foiling board. I personally don't like it because the gear is so much bigger, takes longer to rig up and you lose the great "foiling in waves" sensation that wingfoiling can give you and you mentioned in your comment. But I'm sure windsurf foiling can be a lot of fun too. Your gear (small windfoil board) sounds very interesting.
Nice and Juck dybes are the best ;P
They are!
What are you talking about????? Windsurfing is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SPOR and direct feel for SAILING! Requires techniqe, physical acconditioning. The feeling of raiiling the board and jibing makes it so unique. I tried foiling and its a joke!!!!!! Yes, it easier and BORING after 1/2 hr! The worst part is when a f...winger cuts you off on the waves! Be real man! YOU CAN T mix pears with apples!
You certainly have a strong opinion ;-)
Answer: nope…😁
Windfoil is the easiest way to foil. I think you are missing out…
I actually started foiling with windfoiling. However I used a foil-ready freestyle board. I didn't like it too much. I tried a dedicated windfoiling board once and it was better. However I don't like the gear being big and wingfoiling works much better on waves.
Wind surfing is dead
I disagree :-) It will be a smaller niche in watersports, sure. For example when kitesurfing first started, many people probably proclaimed windsurfing dead and it didn't die. And I don't think it'll die now.
Here's how I know windsurfing is mostly dead. The only way I can get rid of my (really good) windsurfing gear is to give it away. Nobody wants it.
@@gregcalhoon3503 not me I have 2018 windsurfing equipment used only three times if I don’t get my price every thing goes in the wood chipper today windsurfing sails are 800 bucks iam selling my for 350 if windsurfer’s think there going to pay only hundred or two not with me I will destroy the equipment before sell it for practically nothing kite foiling /winging /dock pumping beach foiling rule fuck windsurfing foiling