You know originally the writers intended for the evil ending of inFamous 2 to be the canon ending. They ultimately chose the good ending to be canon due to the fact that more players played the good ending.
But the endings were karmic exclusive and the evil karmic path in 2 felt out of character with how comically callous he acts, given that the good karmic path in the first game is canon
@@ryanhowe5753when in the living sh1t did Sucker Punch ever state that the good karma 'path' is canon... if you literally take a simple glance at the comic books based of off the 1st game, you'll see that Cole was going to kill a bystander for literally calling him 'bald' that's why Sucker Punch wanted the Evil ending to be canon... fck it I'll just send my copied and pasted comment that I've made regarding Cole...
@@ryanhowe5753Second Son has the weakest karma choices in regards to the actual karma choices that you choose in the game but what makes up for it is the context and the story... 1st of all, i don't agree with ppl making 'good' as the default... i mention something like this in my previous comments as to how Human nature wants the best possible outcome but that doesn't necessarily mean that the 'Good karma' path is going to be well written and that is true for EVERY mainlined inFAMOUS game regarding the karma path story... not many ppl know this but canonicaly based off what the comics showed from inFAMOUS 1... Cole does more bad things than good things... he legit was going to kill someone who just called him 'bald' i dont think 'Good karma path' Cole would ever do that because how 'Good karma' Cole is written in his games is that of a typical Good guy who wants to do good... there's a reason why i heavily dislike the train scene from inFAMOUS 1 when you have the Good Karma... cole does his same monologue as the Evil one but just having a slight different tone and as soon as he frees the ppl from the bus, ppl cheer him on... the reason why i dislike this is because Cole is literally just supposed to be a good guy whos done good things and gets praised for it and now the issue lies with HOW the Evil Karma presented it... the Evil karma path even if you want to do the 1st karma choice as good but still want to do an evil playthrough or make the Evil Karma choice for the 1st karma based choice but do the 2nd karmic choice to be Evil then it still works for how an Evil Cole is supposed to be like... he's not supposed to be killing innocent ppl at an early stage of the game... he knows that and won't do it for either himself or Trish or both but he gets depraved as time goes on for how the Public or the rest of society acts around him or how they treat someone like Cole who's 'different' because he has powers and that ppl think hes still responsible for EVERYTHING... that takes a huge burden on you if you're Cole and even those close to you will eventually fall apart... now you might be asking as to how Good karma cole storyline is just like this from the beginning and sure it is but difference is that Evil Cole still saves ppl and helps ppl despite him being in the 'Evil Path' - him being at that train and having his monologue play out feels right to how inFAMOUS 1 presented itself as a WHOLE, despite Cole still saving those ppl on the bus, people still 'stoned' him and hate him for what he is and what he did... sure there's still a very low amount of ppl who do actually praise Evil Cole for what hes doing but it gets outshined and theres also ppl who want to side with Cole with the Evil Karma missions although that doesn't happen all the time... and to come back to the train scene, Cole doesn't kill the man but instead put 'fear' to who ever crosses him again, that he'll do the same thing to what he did to that man... although not to mention, the whole point of that train sequence was to find John if he was inside the train... i do wish that Sucker Punch shouldve shown the more darker aspects like r3p-e since Cole talked about it and how i feel like there shouldve been actual humans in gangs like you how you see those 'psychos' that cole talked about... you dont ever get that in the gameplay itself and I have no idea why Sucker Punch didn't include those aspects when they shown that in the 1st comic cutscene... i think it's because they ran out of time because i do remember that they didn't have that much of a long development cycle ot time... there's still nuance to whatever choices you make however in the 1st game... you can be evil but still do most of the good karma choices and Trish will react more nicely to you and that depends on how you manage it because its all about managing your karma level with you choices.... you can do the same thing with Good Cole but still doing most of the evil choices but that's wether how you want to fit it in your storyline which brings me to how canonicaly Cole does more bad things than good things based off the comics of the 1st game in which Cole has 'blue lightning' and regarding the nuance with the choices... you can play a whole good karma path cole but still save Trish and she'll still be proud of you even though you didn't save those doctors (one thing that inFAMOUS 1 does actually bad is Sucker Punch locking you out of specific karma based missions if you're on an opposite side of the karma that you have meanwhile inFAMOUS 2 doesn't have this problem but Second Son brought back the problem from the 1st game which is a shame).... ppl think that inFAMOUS especially the 1st one was All Black and white but if you dig deep enough then it actually isn't the case and Sucker Punch wanted the Karma system to be more about 'managing' than actually just doing ONE path and sticking to it even though Evil Path still has way way more thought out storyline that fits with how everything that was presented in its foundation of the series...
Then why are there ranks for good and evil karma in those first two games? And upgrades for each said ranks on opposing paths? Your “karma management” so, take is not valid Also, when the hell did Cole threaten to kill someone for calling him bald? Stop talking out of your ass. And yes. The good ending is canon. Don’t be an ass about it Also, about that train sequence, Cole did that because it might lead to John, you talk like he did it out of the good of his heart, even on evil karma, he fried one of them for berating what he did the other day.
One thing I love about inFamous 2's evil ending is that despite its name, Cole isn't necessarily a villain in the end. He's cruel and devalues human lives, but in the end he's a man who chose facts over faith, becoming the most terrifying creature on the planet because it was the only way to guarantee that some semblance of humanity would live on through the conduits. Or at least, that's my interpretation of it
That is kind of the result. But not the motivation. Cole motivation was to survive and be the most powerful. When it comes to evil, intent is a big factor. Humanity could have continued the other way too. Less lives also would have been lost. Sure it was more evidence the evil path would have worked. But that wasn't the reason of motivation just a lie excuse to justify it. So that still makes evil Cole, evil. This why Zeke was mad. It wasn't because Cole decided wasn't logical it was because Zeke knew he was doing it for the wrong reasons. Who's not to say Cole would enslave Humanity under conduit rule. It heavily implied that was going to happen. What's the point saving the human race if you just going to enslave them.
@@theinsurance2450 Saying that it was just a "lie" to justify the choice is only down to your omniscience as the player, because the good ending told you the RFI worked, sitting opposite to the characters, who only blindly followed the guidance of a man that was on their side until his death. Sure, Wolfe seemed like a nice man, but humans have been known to manipulate others by projecting a false sense of comeraderie. Cole's words to Kuo immediately following the ugly discovery paint this distrust: "He was setting me up to die"; Kuo's response, that she was unaware of this fact as well, worsened the situation. She was the closest person to Wolfe before the events of the sequel, even going as far as saying Wolfe was a "father figure" to her. The fact Wolfe kept this part of the RFI's true functionality a secret from anyone, even her, paints an even worse outlook on his character; its probably one of the main reasons Kuo decided to join "Team Freak" for a change. Being treated like a child, not being told what's going to happen when you do something and just being told it's "the right thing to do", is demeaning. The real kicker? Wolfe should've known this would be the response the others would have IF he didn't tell them the truth from the beginning. Everyone knows that if you keep such critical information from others, they will become highly resentful when they discover this fact by themselves. Wolfe had ALL the time in the world to tell Kuo; saying he died too soon to tell anyone is bullshit. He was simply too scared of their response because he knew it was an insane thing to ask of anyone, but he also didn't want any chance of Kuo, or worse, Cole, to abandon the mission. That is a lie by omission, ergo, he was being a manipulative snake when he just said to Cole that the RFI mearly "weakens a conduit's abilities", or in Cole's words "instead of giving powers, it takes them away". Yeah, the RFI takes a conduit's powers away by outright KILLING them. Worst of all, as a scientist, Wolfe was smart enough to simply deduce from his time at the First Sons that conduits were immune to "the Plague", which was really just" Ray"-diation poisoning. Being exposed to many types of conduits, seeing the deteriorating effects of the poisoning on normal folks, and finally, conducting research into conduit detection. Wolfe had all the ample conditions to study how the radiation affected normal people, inactive conduits, and active conduits; not a single word came from his mouth as to any of this while even the characters pondered about the subject. Need I remind you these characters were just 2 AWOL NSA agents (not scientists, agents), an unliscensed shop jockey, and a bike messenger? All of this perfectly outlines why the choice to help John is more than just self preservation, even though we shouldn't be completely demonizing that reasoning to begin with. Point is, Wolfe was a sneaky bitch of a scientist, too frail and scared to give people all the facts to understand the weight of their planned course of action, yet still painted the situation as a clear cut "Us verses Them"; "Cole versus the Beast". Completely ignoring how Cole may have realized even Kessler was lying or Catastrophizing the Beasts' real actions in his timeline, further souring this whole plan in his eyes, just to give the RFI plan a fighting chance, now Wolfe has completely soured it on his own from beyond the grave. Not to mention, the RFI didn't need to be used to save people, who just happened to be conduits. Cole isn't just in it to save himself; if that were true he wouldn't go up against the entire brunt of the US military, traveling from town to town to activate more conduits. "Evil" Cole could have sat just as comfortably in New Marais as the Prime Conduit, just as his non-canon counterpart did in Empire City. But he didn't; he decided to fufill John's wish to save the few conduits they could and continue down that path. Does that sound like the actions of someone who's nothing but "Evil"? Cole isn't creating these conduit for some domination plot; humanity is guaranteed to die because of the mere existence of Raydiation poisoning and, therefore, conduits. They couldn't even be used as "slaves"; the fact you even insinuate that as a possibility show how much you dehumanize an all-too-real dilemma; die trying to save as many as possible or live to save the few that you can.
@@ownedmaxer607 1. You didn't need to write all that. 2. With the Beast power fighting the Army is literally nothing to him. At that point it about enslaving Humanity. Creating Conduits as henchmen to do so. Even with all that power he can't be everywhere all at once. What is the point ruling the world if every 5 seconds you have to get off the chair to put people in check. He needs henchmen to do the little task for him to keep order in check. That's why he was creating more conducts. So yes it was survival and power. 3. I don't see how Wolf's decision to keep it secret has anything to do with this. Knowing ahead of time wouldn't have change anything. The result would have been the same humanity or conduits. Sure maybe Kuo wouldn't have gone to John side but Kuo choice has nothing to do with Cole choice. Cole response was a shock reaction from Kuo decision but it had nothing to do with his own. Evil Cole choice the evil path because of self survival and power. That's it. Wolf didn't tell anyone because he didn't want to risk Cole choicing the evil path. If Wolf had told them and Cole had choice the evil path. He would have just destroyed the RFI right from the beginning and that be it. Humanity gone, conduits win. Wolf didn't want to risk that. That why he didn't tell anyone including Kuo. Who also might tell Cole. He couldn't take that risk with all of fking Humanity at risk, regardless how close they were. By not telling them regardless if Cole choice evil path or not. Cole would have destroyed the Beast. Wolf didn't know Zeke would be there to stop Cole when he use the RFI first time. Maybe Wolf actions were wrong or not. It doesn't matter. It doesn't change Cole krama choice, so it is irrelevant. The Infamous games are design for you to pick one Karma side from the beginning. If Wolf told them and Cole was evil path. It be game over.
@@theinsurance2450 1. Learn how to actually space out numerical points if you're going to use them to structure your writing; you comment is far more painful to read than my first comment. 2. You can't tell me what is or isn't too long of a comment. I wrote what I wrote; deal with it. 3. It doesn't matter if fighting the army is nothing to Cole after absorbing the Beast's power, he still could've chose to not do anything after getting John's powers. You've decided to cram all your other points in point three, as if writing a word wall is more sufficient than writing a long, but structured body of 4 simple paragraphs, so I will not grant you the courtesy of refuting you statements thouroughly on Wolfe or probable slavery under conduit rule unless you fix that rat's nest of a comment. I will only say this: Lying, even by omission, because you believe it's "the right thing to do" is still wrong and people who do it should not be trusted.
@@ownedmaxer607 1. You clearly understood what I wrote. You are just mad. I am not rewriting anything. 2. How you going say you can write whatever you want but than complain how I write. That makes no sense. You don't have an actual refute so you just talking out your @ss. 3. Cole is enslaving Humanity because that what he wants also, POWER. The greatest power of all is controlling over people. So he enslaved them. Which we saw. It something in character evil path Cole would do.
I think the evil ending of 2 is one of the best antihero stories out there. It’s deemed evil and prehaps it is. But still, Cole sees the beast as the only proven way of curing the plague where theres no way of telling if the rfi will even cure the plague and if activated the beast( the only being capable of saving people) will die with the plague still around. Id argue it’s morally grey then straight up evil as cole is still trying to save as many conduits as he can. Cole may be a psychopath at this point but i dont believe he’ll let the human race as a whole just die.
He's not exactly an Everyman Hero, more like Reluctant Hero. Since Everyman tends to be regular person in the crowd but usually they're completely fine with their everyday life and I think just accepting any situation is fine since usually the world revolves around the people. But reluctant heroes are different. They have a realistically view of the world and having their own personal problems in their lives. Cole MacGrath always running away from things that always against him of having a regular normal life around his life choices. Delsin have a carefree demeanor but completely lost on what he wants to do in his life. Both protagonists have a dilemma/probelms of their own and by the time they got powers they're reluctant on what are they going to use it for. Like Spiderman, Peter Parker become a typical Super Hero after been bitten by radioactive spider and his canon event origin story shaped him into the hero we known for.... Until Web Of Shadows happened. Venom beating Spider-Man and mj to a bloody pulp. Before attempting to eating him, Petervs willpower somehow ripping some part of the Symbiote and gained black suit again. And this time it's controllable... But not his moral compass. Which resulted in making choices that leads to 2 separate endings (Red vs Black, Good vs evil) just like inFAMOUS. This game and most Spider-Man comics I read made me realize that he's not a typical Super Hero types but rather a Reluctant Hero types. Web of Shadows are the catalyst of both the famous yet underrated game known as inFAMOUS and PROTOTYPE. InFAMOUS is a similar parody to Spider-Man, while PROTOTYPE is a parody of Venom. It was visible on how both protagonist on 2 different franchise "use their powers" Cole MacGrath , Delsin Rowe, and Spider-Man are Reluctant Hero types when it comes to making moral complex choices even if the world is against them. Alex Mercer , James Heller, and Venom are the Anti Hero types that knows the world is against them and return their own form of hatred right back at their a-holes but bring the goodness of protecting people in their own way.
He good either way. In the good ending he writes comic book stories of Cole's adventures. He probably got a lot of lady friends lol. In the evil ending. He is in heaven banging Trish over their equal hate of Cole.
@@theinsurance2450 bold to assume Zeke would be going to Heaven with the amount of shit he's done with Cole in the past, but I guess that's the average religious person's dream; to act as if your past doesn't matter and that "all will be forgiven under the grace of God"
@@ownedmaxer607 ok? What is your problem dude. You must be fun at parties lol. 1. It a joke calm the fk down. 2. Zeke tried to save Humanity even when he knew it was hopeless and was willing to go against his friend to do so. I believe God will give him a pass. Plus he died on top of a holy building. 3. I don't believe God gives a pass for everyone or everyone sins. Like Bertrand for example is probably burning in hell. But people who try to to do good and become better people. Have a higher chance of being forgiven. I pray you have a better life and don't have so much hate. 🙏
@@theinsurance2450 I'm still waiting for you to fix that rat's nest of a comment; stop trying to change the subject because your logical arguments are as bad as your writing.
Great video, check out Zivale's video 'Cole McGrath: an internal struggle against destiny' which also gives a very good analysis. I think that the Infamous series can really be applauded as one of the first video games who made a character-driven story and then dared to take it deep, and even deeper. The Last Of Us very famously followed in those footsteps and did it exceedingly well. It's so subtle and well done that some people miss it entirely and call Cole shallow, while he is anything but (true, the voice acting in the first game doesn't help). One of the greatest strengths a writer can have is to not be afraid to let your audience figure things out for themselves, even if that comes with the risk that some of your audience won't get it at all. It shows respect for your audience. Infamous is an excellent example of this and I think the writers should get a lot more credit (I sure wish one of them would go and work for Bethesda :D).
Great video, loved your analysis on Cole very similar to mine but more thought out lol. Loved at 17:56 on Showcasing inFAMOUS 2 Evil Cole's change on him having powers and will use them. I like how Evil Cole's character in inFAMOUS being the "You look at me I'll end you", whereas in inFAMOUS 2 it's more of him giving you a long glare and then attacking if you get in his way. Again Great video 👍
Love Ur vid man i appriecate the fact That u give The notoriety That this games deserve especially about the fact that Cole is a Character That all along his path during the game didn't choose really what can happen to him . I mean like the fact that he have to work with Moya , Choose between his beloved one or random peoples or the fact that he have to kill Kessler to fully understand that What happened to him was fully planned from the start by his old self from the future (Kessler) . Whats Dramatic about it is that from the very start he could have live a very long and good life whitout running away like he did back to the past in Kessler's life because he had powers that made him so strong that he could possibly rewind time and thats what he did at the time he ran away with his family as far as he could but The Beast ultimately found him and killed his wife before his eyes and thats from that point that he realize the fact that because of him running away from his problem and from his responssability towards the power that he had at the time because in fact he could kill that beast but he was too much in fear for that wich is understandable . I mean he wasnt fully aware of the immensity of his power + The beast had most likely the same amount of power in his timeline so ye he wans't ready enought to fight it properly but in the end even after all what the actual Cole of the game did to resolve that problem,he still have to beat the beast to be finally free of his destiny but even in the actual good ending we dont know yet if he is still alive or not
@@gos7826 unclear. Sucker Punch never confirm anything. However I do have Theory what could have happened if we got Infamous 3. So the lightning bolt at end of Infamous 2 sent Cole and Zeke into an alternate timeline. There they are few years back in time. Cole decides this is their second chance. So Cole marries Trish and has his family. 8 years later. Cole uses his powers with law enforcement to stop criminal conduits. However a new evil group appears planning on creating the ultimate conduit which allow them to take over the world. This is when Cole realizes he is in Kessler's timeline or one that similar. Cole tries to stop this new enemy from creating another beast. A beast even more powerful than John from his timeline. At the end Cole must decide to either fight the beast and risk the life of his family or run away with his family instead. In the good ending Cole learns from Kessler mistakes and fights the Super villain from creating the Beast. However Zeke sacrifices himself to save Cole's family. The day is saved. One year later Cole names his new born son Zeke in honor of his friend. In the evil ending Cole decides to leave with his family. Only for the super villain to hunt him down and kill his family. One year later with the help of Zeke. Cole gains the power to go back in time to create a better future. He must become the evil Kessler to create the hero Cole. He says goodbye to his friend Zeke, one last time and leaves. So basically the good ending is the end and the evil ending is a loop. That way Infamous 3 is both a Sequel and prequel. Like always the good ending will be cannon so don't worry about the evil path plot holes. Infamous 3 will let Cole get Kessler powers. Like super speed, power create drones, power to clone avatars etc.
Great analysis as a character on his own merit and I like the grounding of Cole's final choices as being influenced by his own experiences rather than as a reaction to the world. There is a character study of Cole, made by one youtuber named Zivalene, called "Cole Macgrath: An Internal Struggle Against Destiny"; it gives an interesting take on why Infamous 2 was meant to have the Infamous ending all along and how Cole's escape from control leads to him maning that choice. If anyone wants to follow up on this video, I recommend it
Honestly, both Cole and Delsin would probably be among the top tiers of the verse if not way above them for their sheer power as well as the countless uses for their powers. Cole would definitely be powerful enough to beat most villains he'd have to fight, as well as being able to heal civilians, use his more telekinetic powers to move debris in a wreck, and use his electric powers to fix emergency blackouts as we see in the games. Delsin would definitely thrive as a superhero, probably calling himself the Smoker and just eating up all the praise and attention the job gets him. He'd also probably often be called in for collapsed buildings, able to move through rubble as smoke, heal any wounded, and get them out safely. Also, depending on whether or not Quirks are up for grabs with Delsin's copy ability, he could become completely unstoppable, as if he wasn't already pretty op
@@AmateurAnimations65Delson copy ability may only work on Conduits as it seems to be base on absorbing Ray Sphere energy. So really unlikely he would take the powers from other cork users. Cole and Delson could make good Villains too if it their evil version. Especially Beast Cole. Might even take over the world. How are any of heroes going to beat a Ray Sphere blast.
Usually Everyman Hero types have multiple outcomes and multiple endings and there's a lot of games that depicted those categories.... but this game only has 2 separated endings which isn't suitable for an Everyman Hero protagonist.
You know originally the writers intended for the evil ending of inFamous 2 to be the canon ending. They ultimately chose the good ending to be canon due to the fact that more players played the good ending.
But the endings were karmic exclusive and the evil karmic path in 2 felt out of character with how comically callous he acts, given that the good karmic path in the first game is canon
@@ryanhowe5753when in the living sh1t did Sucker Punch ever state that the good karma 'path' is canon... if you literally take a simple glance at the comic books based of off the 1st game, you'll see that Cole was going to kill a bystander for literally calling him 'bald' that's why Sucker Punch wanted the Evil ending to be canon...
fck it I'll just send my copied and pasted comment that I've made regarding Cole...
@@ryanhowe5753Second Son has the weakest karma choices in regards to the actual karma choices that you choose in the game but what makes up for it is the context and the story...
1st of all, i don't agree with ppl making 'good' as the default... i mention something like this in my previous comments as to how Human nature wants the best possible outcome but that doesn't necessarily mean that the 'Good karma' path is going to be well written and that is true for EVERY mainlined inFAMOUS game regarding the karma path story...
not many ppl know this but canonicaly based off what the comics showed from inFAMOUS 1... Cole does more bad things than good things... he legit was going to kill someone who just called him 'bald' i dont think 'Good karma path' Cole would ever do that because how 'Good karma' Cole is written in his games is that of a typical Good guy who wants to do good... there's a reason why i heavily dislike the train scene from inFAMOUS 1 when you have the Good Karma... cole does his same monologue as the Evil one but just having a slight different tone and as soon as he frees the ppl from the bus, ppl cheer him on...
the reason why i dislike this is because Cole is literally just supposed to be a good guy whos done good things and gets praised for it and now the issue lies with HOW the Evil Karma presented it...
the Evil karma path even if you want to do the 1st karma choice as good but still want to do an evil playthrough or make the Evil Karma choice for the 1st karma based choice but do the 2nd karmic choice to be Evil then it still works for how an Evil Cole is supposed to be like... he's not supposed to be killing innocent ppl at an early stage of the game... he knows that and won't do it for either himself or Trish or both but he gets depraved as time goes on for how the Public or the rest of society acts around him or how they treat someone like Cole who's 'different' because he has powers and that ppl think hes still responsible for EVERYTHING... that takes a huge burden on you if you're Cole and even those close to you will eventually fall apart... now you might be asking as to how Good karma cole storyline is just like this from the beginning and sure it is but difference is that Evil Cole still saves ppl and helps ppl despite him being in the 'Evil Path' - him being at that train and having his monologue play out feels right to how inFAMOUS 1 presented itself as a WHOLE, despite Cole still saving those ppl on the bus, people still 'stoned' him and hate him for what he is and what he did... sure there's still a very low amount of ppl who do actually praise Evil Cole for what hes doing but it gets outshined and theres also ppl who want to side with Cole with the Evil Karma missions although that doesn't happen all the time... and to come back to the train scene, Cole doesn't kill the man but instead put 'fear' to who ever crosses him again, that he'll do the same thing to what he did to that man... although not to mention, the whole point of that train sequence was to find John if he was inside the train...
i do wish that Sucker Punch shouldve shown the more darker aspects like r3p-e since Cole talked about it and how i feel like there shouldve been actual humans in gangs like you how you see those 'psychos' that cole talked about... you dont ever get that in the gameplay itself and I have no idea why Sucker Punch didn't include those aspects when they shown that in the 1st comic cutscene... i think it's because they ran out of time because i do remember that they didn't have that much of a long development cycle ot time...
there's still nuance to whatever choices you make however in the 1st game... you can be evil but still do most of the good karma choices and Trish will react more nicely to you and that depends on how you manage it because its all about managing your karma level with you choices.... you can do the same thing with Good Cole but still doing most of the evil choices but that's wether how you want to fit it in your storyline which brings me to how canonicaly Cole does more bad things than good things based off the comics of the 1st game in which Cole has 'blue lightning' and regarding the nuance with the choices... you can play a whole good karma path cole but still save Trish and she'll still be proud of you even though you didn't save those doctors (one thing that inFAMOUS 1 does actually bad is Sucker Punch locking you out of specific karma based missions if you're on an opposite side of the karma that you have meanwhile inFAMOUS 2 doesn't have this problem but Second Son brought back the problem from the 1st game which is a shame).... ppl think that inFAMOUS especially the 1st one was All Black and white but if you dig deep enough then it actually isn't the case and Sucker Punch wanted the Karma system to be more about 'managing' than actually just doing ONE path and sticking to it even though Evil Path still has way way more thought out storyline that fits with how everything that was presented in its foundation of the series...
Then why are there ranks for good and evil karma in those first two games? And upgrades for each said ranks on opposing paths? Your “karma management” so, take is not valid
Also, when the hell did Cole threaten to kill someone for calling him bald? Stop talking out of your ass. And yes. The good ending is canon. Don’t be an ass about it
Also, about that train sequence, Cole did that because it might lead to John, you talk like he did it out of the good of his heart, even on evil karma, he fried one of them for berating what he did the other day.
@@ryanhowe5753 you do realise that you can choose the fcking endings even at the opposite side you surface level minded, one-noted dipsh1t...
One thing I love about inFamous 2's evil ending is that despite its name, Cole isn't necessarily a villain in the end. He's cruel and devalues human lives, but in the end he's a man who chose facts over faith, becoming the most terrifying creature on the planet because it was the only way to guarantee that some semblance of humanity would live on through the conduits. Or at least, that's my interpretation of it
That is kind of the result. But not the motivation. Cole motivation was to survive and be the most powerful. When it comes to evil, intent is a big factor. Humanity could have continued the other way too. Less lives also would have been lost. Sure it was more evidence the evil path would have worked. But that wasn't the reason of motivation just a lie excuse to justify it. So that still makes evil Cole, evil. This why Zeke was mad. It wasn't because Cole decided wasn't logical it was because Zeke knew he was doing it for the wrong reasons. Who's not to say Cole would enslave Humanity under conduit rule. It heavily implied that was going to happen. What's the point saving the human race if you just going to enslave them.
@@theinsurance2450 Saying that it was just a "lie" to justify the choice is only down to your omniscience as the player, because the good ending told you the RFI worked, sitting opposite to the characters, who only blindly followed the guidance of a man that was on their side until his death. Sure, Wolfe seemed like a nice man, but humans have been known to manipulate others by projecting a false sense of comeraderie. Cole's words to Kuo immediately following the ugly discovery paint this distrust: "He was setting me up to die"; Kuo's response, that she was unaware of this fact as well, worsened the situation. She was the closest person to Wolfe before the events of the sequel, even going as far as saying Wolfe was a "father figure" to her. The fact Wolfe kept this part of the RFI's true functionality a secret from anyone, even her, paints an even worse outlook on his character; its probably one of the main reasons Kuo decided to join "Team Freak" for a change. Being treated like a child, not being told what's going to happen when you do something and just being told it's "the right thing to do", is demeaning.
The real kicker? Wolfe should've known this would be the response the others would have IF he didn't tell them the truth from the beginning. Everyone knows that if you keep such critical information from others, they will become highly resentful when they discover this fact by themselves. Wolfe had ALL the time in the world to tell Kuo; saying he died too soon to tell anyone is bullshit. He was simply too scared of their response because he knew it was an insane thing to ask of anyone, but he also didn't want any chance of Kuo, or worse, Cole, to abandon the mission. That is a lie by omission, ergo, he was being a manipulative snake when he just said to Cole that the RFI mearly "weakens a conduit's abilities", or in Cole's words "instead of giving powers, it takes them away". Yeah, the RFI takes a conduit's powers away by outright KILLING them.
Worst of all, as a scientist, Wolfe was smart enough to simply deduce from his time at the First Sons that conduits were immune to "the Plague", which was really just" Ray"-diation poisoning. Being exposed to many types of conduits, seeing the deteriorating effects of the poisoning on normal folks, and finally, conducting research into conduit detection. Wolfe had all the ample conditions to study how the radiation affected normal people, inactive conduits, and active conduits; not a single word came from his mouth as to any of this while even the characters pondered about the subject. Need I remind you these characters were just 2 AWOL NSA agents (not scientists, agents), an unliscensed shop jockey, and a bike messenger?
All of this perfectly outlines why the choice to help John is more than just self preservation, even though we shouldn't be completely demonizing that reasoning to begin with. Point is, Wolfe was a sneaky bitch of a scientist, too frail and scared to give people all the facts to understand the weight of their planned course of action, yet still painted the situation as a clear cut "Us verses Them"; "Cole versus the Beast". Completely ignoring how Cole may have realized even Kessler was lying or Catastrophizing the Beasts' real actions in his timeline, further souring this whole plan in his eyes, just to give the RFI plan a fighting chance, now Wolfe has completely soured it on his own from beyond the grave. Not to mention, the RFI didn't need to be used to save people, who just happened to be conduits. Cole isn't just in it to save himself; if that were true he wouldn't go up against the entire brunt of the US military, traveling from town to town to activate more conduits. "Evil" Cole could have sat just as comfortably in New Marais as the Prime Conduit, just as his non-canon counterpart did in Empire City. But he didn't; he decided to fufill John's wish to save the few conduits they could and continue down that path. Does that sound like the actions of someone who's nothing but "Evil"? Cole isn't creating these conduit for some domination plot; humanity is guaranteed to die because of the mere existence of Raydiation poisoning and, therefore, conduits. They couldn't even be used as "slaves"; the fact you even insinuate that as a possibility show how much you dehumanize an all-too-real dilemma; die trying to save as many as possible or live to save the few that you can.
@@ownedmaxer607
1. You didn't need to write all that.
2. With the Beast power fighting the Army is literally nothing to him. At that point it about enslaving Humanity. Creating Conduits as henchmen to do so. Even with all that power he can't be everywhere all at once. What is the point ruling the world if every 5 seconds you have to get off the chair to put people in check. He needs henchmen to do the little task for him to keep order in check. That's why he was creating more conducts. So yes it was survival and power.
3. I don't see how Wolf's decision to keep it secret has anything to do with this. Knowing ahead of time wouldn't have change anything. The result would have been the same humanity or conduits. Sure maybe Kuo wouldn't have gone to John side but Kuo choice has nothing to do with Cole choice. Cole response was a shock reaction from Kuo decision but it had nothing to do with his own. Evil Cole choice the evil path because of self survival and power. That's it. Wolf didn't tell anyone because he didn't want to risk Cole choicing the evil path. If Wolf had told them and Cole had choice the evil path. He would have just destroyed the RFI right from the beginning and that be it. Humanity gone, conduits win. Wolf didn't want to risk that. That why he didn't tell anyone including Kuo. Who also might tell Cole. He couldn't take that risk with all of fking Humanity at risk, regardless how close they were. By not telling them regardless if Cole choice evil path or not. Cole would have destroyed the Beast. Wolf didn't know Zeke would be there to stop Cole when he use the RFI first time. Maybe Wolf actions were wrong or not. It doesn't matter. It doesn't change Cole krama choice, so it is irrelevant. The Infamous games are design for you to pick one Karma side from the beginning. If Wolf told them and Cole was evil path. It be game over.
@@theinsurance2450 1. Learn how to actually space out numerical points if you're going to use them to structure your writing; you comment is far more painful to read than my first comment.
2. You can't tell me what is or isn't too long of a comment. I wrote what I wrote; deal with it.
3. It doesn't matter if fighting the army is nothing to Cole after absorbing the Beast's power, he still could've chose to not do anything after getting John's powers.
You've decided to cram all your other points in point three, as if writing a word wall is more sufficient than writing a long, but structured body of 4 simple paragraphs, so I will not grant you the courtesy of refuting you statements thouroughly on Wolfe or probable slavery under conduit rule unless you fix that rat's nest of a comment.
I will only say this: Lying, even by omission, because you believe it's "the right thing to do" is still wrong and people who do it should not be trusted.
@@ownedmaxer607
1. You clearly understood what I wrote. You are just mad. I am not rewriting anything.
2. How you going say you can write whatever you want but than complain how I write. That makes no sense. You don't have an actual refute so you just talking out your @ss.
3. Cole is enslaving Humanity because that what he wants also, POWER. The greatest power of all is controlling over people. So he enslaved them. Which we saw. It something in character evil path Cole would do.
god I miss this franchise, good thing we will finally get Alex Mercer vs Cole Macgrath DEATH BATTLE
Great analysis, I always feel like the infamous franchise never gets its notoriety. Thanks for the vid!
I think the evil ending of 2 is one of the best antihero stories out there. It’s deemed evil and prehaps it is.
But still, Cole sees the beast as the only proven way of curing the plague where theres no way of telling if the rfi will even cure the plague and if activated the beast( the only being capable of saving people) will die with the plague still around.
Id argue it’s morally grey then straight up evil as cole is still trying to save as many conduits as he can. Cole may be a psychopath at this point but i dont believe he’ll let the human race as a whole just die.
He's not exactly an Everyman Hero, more like Reluctant Hero. Since Everyman tends to be regular person in the crowd but usually they're completely fine with their everyday life and I think just accepting any situation is fine since usually the world revolves around the people.
But reluctant heroes are different. They have a realistically view of the world and having their own personal problems in their lives.
Cole MacGrath always running away from things that always against him of having a regular normal life around his life choices.
Delsin have a carefree demeanor but completely lost on what he wants to do in his life.
Both protagonists have a dilemma/probelms of their own and by the time they got powers they're reluctant on what are they going to use it for.
Like Spiderman, Peter Parker become a typical Super Hero after been bitten by radioactive spider and his canon event origin story shaped him into the hero we known for.... Until Web Of Shadows happened. Venom beating Spider-Man and mj to a bloody pulp.
Before attempting to eating him, Petervs willpower somehow ripping some part of the Symbiote and gained black suit again. And this time it's controllable... But not his moral compass. Which resulted in making choices that leads to 2 separate endings (Red vs Black, Good vs evil) just like inFAMOUS.
This game and most Spider-Man comics I read made me realize that he's not a typical Super Hero types but rather a Reluctant Hero types.
Web of Shadows are the catalyst of both the famous yet underrated game known as inFAMOUS and PROTOTYPE.
InFAMOUS is a similar parody to Spider-Man, while PROTOTYPE is a parody of Venom. It was visible on how both protagonist on 2 different franchise "use their powers"
Cole MacGrath , Delsin Rowe, and Spider-Man are Reluctant Hero types when it comes to making moral complex choices even if the world is against them.
Alex Mercer , James Heller, and Venom are the Anti Hero types that knows the world is against them and return their own form of hatred right back at their a-holes but bring the goodness of protecting people in their own way.
I wonder how Zeke is doing
He good either way. In the good ending he writes comic book stories of Cole's adventures. He probably got a lot of lady friends lol.
In the evil ending. He is in heaven banging Trish over their equal hate of Cole.
@@theinsurance2450 bold to assume Zeke would be going to Heaven with the amount of shit he's done with Cole in the past, but I guess that's the average religious person's dream; to act as if your past doesn't matter and that "all will be forgiven under the grace of God"
@@ownedmaxer607 ok? What is your problem dude. You must be fun at parties lol. 1. It a joke calm the fk down.
2. Zeke tried to save Humanity even when he knew it was hopeless and was willing to go against his friend to do so. I believe God will give him a pass. Plus he died on top of a holy building.
3. I don't believe God gives a pass for everyone or everyone sins. Like Bertrand for example is probably burning in hell. But people who try to to do good and become better people. Have a higher chance of being forgiven. I pray you have a better life and don't have so much hate. 🙏
@@theinsurance2450 I'm still waiting for you to fix that rat's nest of a comment; stop trying to change the subject because your logical arguments are as bad as your writing.
Great video, check out Zivale's video 'Cole McGrath: an internal struggle against destiny' which also gives a very good analysis. I think that the Infamous series can really be applauded as one of the first video games who made a character-driven story and then dared to take it deep, and even deeper. The Last Of Us very famously followed in those footsteps and did it exceedingly well. It's so subtle and well done that some people miss it entirely and call Cole shallow, while he is anything but (true, the voice acting in the first game doesn't help). One of the greatest strengths a writer can have is to not be afraid to let your audience figure things out for themselves, even if that comes with the risk that some of your audience won't get it at all. It shows respect for your audience. Infamous is an excellent example of this and I think the writers should get a lot more credit (I sure wish one of them would go and work for Bethesda :D).
Cole macgrath the demon of empire city turned saint of new marais and one of the best video game protagonists ever
"I'm really gonna enjoy this"
Edit: at 9:08 I laughed so hard 😂
we need a remake for this
They really shouldn't have tied the final choice to the Karma. Where you can only side with the beast if you're evil Karma
Great video, loved your analysis on Cole very similar to mine but more thought out lol. Loved at 17:56 on Showcasing inFAMOUS 2 Evil Cole's change on him having powers and will use them. I like how Evil Cole's character in inFAMOUS being the "You look at me I'll end you", whereas in inFAMOUS 2 it's more of him giving you a long glare and then attacking if you get in his way. Again Great video 👍
Sukuna would definitely admire and respect if Cole’s evil only
Redemption & breaking bad playthroughs tho, uggh
I will always prefer Infamous 1 over 2
Love Ur vid man i appriecate the fact That u give The notoriety That this games deserve especially about the fact that Cole is a Character That all along his path during the game didn't choose really what can happen to him . I mean like the fact that he have to work with Moya , Choose between his beloved one or random peoples or the fact that he have to kill Kessler to fully understand that What happened to him was fully planned from the start by his old self from the future (Kessler) . Whats Dramatic about it is that from the very start he could have live a very long and good life whitout running away like he did back to the past in Kessler's life because he had powers that made him so strong that he could possibly rewind time and thats what he did at the time he ran away with his family as far as he could but The Beast ultimately found him and killed his wife before his eyes and thats from that point that he realize the fact that because of him running away from his problem and from his responssability towards the power that he had at the time because in fact he could kill that beast but he was too much in fear for that wich is understandable . I mean he wasnt fully aware of the immensity of his power + The beast had most likely the same amount of power in his timeline so ye he wans't ready enought to fight it properly but in the end even after all what the actual Cole of the game did to resolve that problem,he still have to beat the beast to be finally free of his destiny but even in the actual good ending we dont know yet if he is still alive or not
Oh btw if someone know something else about if Cole is actually dead or not pls respond at this comment i would love to know about this
@@gos7826 unclear. Sucker Punch never confirm anything. However I do have Theory what could have happened if we got Infamous 3.
So the lightning bolt at end of Infamous 2 sent Cole and Zeke into an alternate timeline. There they are few years back in time. Cole decides this is their second chance. So Cole marries Trish and has his family. 8 years later. Cole uses his powers with law enforcement to stop criminal conduits. However a new evil group appears planning on creating the ultimate conduit which allow them to take over the world. This is when Cole realizes he is in Kessler's timeline or one that similar. Cole tries to stop this new enemy from creating another beast. A beast even more powerful than John from his timeline. At the end Cole must decide to either fight the beast and risk the life of his family or run away with his family instead.
In the good ending Cole learns from Kessler mistakes and fights the Super villain from creating the Beast. However Zeke sacrifices himself to save Cole's family. The day is saved. One year later Cole names his new born son Zeke in honor of his friend.
In the evil ending Cole decides to leave with his family. Only for the super villain to hunt him down and kill his family. One year later with the help of Zeke. Cole gains the power to go back in time to create a better future. He must become the evil Kessler to create the hero Cole. He says goodbye to his friend Zeke, one last time and leaves.
So basically the good ending is the end and the evil ending is a loop. That way Infamous 3 is both a Sequel and prequel.
Like always the good ending will be cannon so don't worry about the evil path plot holes.
Infamous 3 will let Cole get Kessler powers. Like super speed, power create drones, power to clone avatars etc.
Neat video
Great analysis as a character on his own merit and I like the grounding of Cole's final choices as being influenced by his own experiences rather than as a reaction to the world.
There is a character study of Cole, made by one youtuber named Zivalene, called "Cole Macgrath: An Internal Struggle Against Destiny"; it gives an interesting take on why Infamous 2 was meant to have the Infamous ending all along and how Cole's escape from control leads to him maning that choice.
If anyone wants to follow up on this video, I recommend it
I like how at one point, people thought that lightning strike at the end was a hint to Cole's revival🥲 That sucks.
I got cool video idea what will happen put Cold or Delsin in my hero Academia Universe
He should be in something like lord of the rings instead of such a shallow universe
Team Conduit: Cole, Delsin, Fetch, Eugene, and Celia
Honestly, both Cole and Delsin would probably be among the top tiers of the verse if not way above them for their sheer power as well as the countless uses for their powers. Cole would definitely be powerful enough to beat most villains he'd have to fight, as well as being able to heal civilians, use his more telekinetic powers to move debris in a wreck, and use his electric powers to fix emergency blackouts as we see in the games. Delsin would definitely thrive as a superhero, probably calling himself the Smoker and just eating up all the praise and attention the job gets him. He'd also probably often be called in for collapsed buildings, able to move through rubble as smoke, heal any wounded, and get them out safely. Also, depending on whether or not Quirks are up for grabs with Delsin's copy ability, he could become completely unstoppable, as if he wasn't already pretty op
@@RestlessRebel actually i don't know about Celia l mean paper trail kinda set her up B evil
@@AmateurAnimations65Delson copy ability may only work on Conduits as it seems to be base on absorbing Ray Sphere energy. So really unlikely he would take the powers from other cork users.
Cole and Delson could make good Villains too if it their evil version. Especially Beast Cole. Might even take over the world. How are any of heroes going to beat a Ray Sphere blast.
Usually Everyman Hero types have multiple outcomes and multiple endings and there's a lot of games that depicted those categories.... but this game only has 2 separated endings which isn't suitable for an Everyman Hero protagonist.