Will the Government Tax Your Roth IRA?
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- Опубліковано 24 тра 2024
- Could the government start taxing Roth IRAs? Lately, I've been chatting with folks gearing up for retirement, and there's a growing buzz about the potential for Roth IRAs to be taxed. It's a valid concern-after all, tax rules can change. Traditionally, we've been told to save in tax-deferred accounts, betting that we'll pay less tax in retirement. But with today's low tax rates, that strategy might not pan out as expected. Higher future taxes could hit hard those with hefty sums in pre-tax accounts. That's why savvy savers are eyeing Roth IRAs, where you pay no taxes on withdrawals if you play by the rules. But what if those rules change, leaving Roth savings subject to taxes? Let's dive into this worry and see what might really happen.
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With Roth IRA, the money you are contributing has already been taxed. At any time for any reason, you can withdraw your contributions tax-free and penalty-free. Additionally, any earnings on investments can also be withdrawn tax-free and penalty-free, Not sure how much to contribute, I'm still at a crossroads deciding if to liquidate my $338k stock portfolio.
Medicare money that the government pulls from you while you work and then when you retire and get your SS is double taxed too and nobody seems to mind. So , no, Roth is NOT safe
Small taxes can affect investment decisions such as whether to choose tax-free municipal bonds over taxable bonds or do a Roth IRA conversion. I’ve been sitting on over $745K equity from a home sale and I want to invest on the stock market, how do I achieve this without being taxed twice?
There’s more benefit to holding fixed-income assets in tax-deferred retirement accounts as opposed to taxable accounts. If you're not who understands strategies to invest in the market, seek a Financial advisor to guide you.
I completely agree; I am 60 years old, recently retired, and have approximately $1,250,000 in external retirement funds. I am debt free and have very little money in retirement funds compared to the total value of my portfolio over the past three years. To be honest, having a portfolio-advisor for investing is genius!
@@noah-greeneThat does make a lot of sense, unlike us, you seem to have the Market figured out. Who is this consultant?
The decision on when to pick an Adviser is a very personal one. I take guidance from “Gertrude Margaret Quinto” to meet my growth goals and avoid mistakes, she's well-qualified and her page can be easily found on the net.
Thanks for the info, i found her website and sent a message hopefully she replies soon.
""No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session."' Mark Twain
….. It is so true….
It wouldn't surprise me if this happened. Government spending is out of control, and Congress won't address this issue.
100 corruption
Congress is the issue they control the spending.
Never, ever, underestimate the greed of politicians. History repeats itself. And, history shows that if they find a need, they'll find your money. They'll just call it a wealth tax.
Social security wasn't taxed when it was implemented. Just saying.
And the earning limit hasn’t changed for SS in a long time so more of your other money is taxed.
Wasn't that one of the first ideas of a young senator from Delaware named Joe Biden?
@@tommckinley111 He was the key vote to tax up to 50% of S. S. Yes.
@Retiredmco how could he be the key vote, it was a majority vote, every body vote had the same power unless it was a tie, then you could say the vice president had the key vote, and since he wasn't Ronalds Reagans vice president, he could not have been the key vote, why did Reagan sign it into law? Democrat from Minn. Rep. Angie Craig is trying to get a bill pushed through the you earned it, you keep it bill that will repeal taxes on social security, pay attention who votes against this bill, that will tell you who has the working person's best interest.
Even if Congress didn't officially tax Roth accounts, they could come up with an excise tax, net worth tax, additional sales tax, or a Value Added Tax (VAT) that would effectively tax Roth money again when it was spent.
100 corruption
net worth means assessment is my fear. If net worth is >zilch then tax the crap out of those gains upon withdrawal.
Yes, they can and they will at some point. Just like they tax social security. You can always find a politician willing to tax you more.
We already paid TAX on it!!! What is going on with this country??
This is why I will never own a Roth. People can get one if they reeeeeally want to trust the government; I don't.
Private retirement savings is a big pot of gold the government can't wait to get its hands on.
Yes, that is why they have RMD’s
I purchased a bunch of EE bonds back in the 80's with the intent to use the gains "tax free" to pay for my kids education. Guess what 20 yrs later, the tax rules said I made too much money to use the gains tax free. This will be what they will do with the Roth, they will figure out a way to tax it.
Historically, Congress has seen fit to tax more sources of income despite predicted "political nightmares."
Congress ignored the predicted "political nightmare" of taxing social security benefits in 1983, and then raised the amount that could be taxed in 1993. Prior to that, it was considered unthinkable to tax social security benefits because a pair of 1938 Treasury Department Tax Rulings, and another in 1941, had explicitly excluded social security benefits from federal income taxation.
By the way, In 1983, Joe Biden joined the bipartisan effort to make 50% of Social Security benefits taxable, for those above a certain income. In 1993, Biden joined a partisan effort to narrowly pass an "Omnibus Bill," mostly focused on lowering the deficit. Included in this large package was a bill that changed the level of taxable Social Security benefits from 50% to 85%.
Devin remember S. S . WASN'T taxed at one time!!!
Going to the store and see how much you are taxed when buying food in Colorado. I about fell over when I saw 2 taxes being tacked on my grocery bill. Almost 17 percent. This on top of the price of food.
One thing is for certain all other taxes will go up to pay for all this unconstitutional spending outside of our country and within. Diversifying your investments is great advice!
Social Security use to be untaxed, now you can pay taxes on up to 85% of your Social Security. When you’re talking about politicians anything is possible. Watch the 6:30 or 7:00pm news a few nights.
Politicians are just salivating at the thought of this
You had me at so can the government change the rules...
All I have to say is they promised they would never tax SS. Then they decided to tax 50% because your employer contributed half. Then they raised it to 85% for god knows what reason. Almost everyone either is already collecting, or will collect SS, so the idea that it would be a political nightmare to offend 25% of the populace that have Roth doesn't wash.
85% because most contribute only 15% of their benefits.
@@ws775Yeah, but the only people who contributed only 15% are the ones who stayed below the first bend point. They aren't even affected much by the tax on benefits. People above the 2nd bend point are less likely to get back the last dollars they paid in. That 15% argument was basically them peeing on our legs.
You cannot plan for anything because nothing is certain. Just relax, be happy and don’t worry about. Life’s too short.
Don't give them any ideas.
There was a recent story that the 401k may go away. That would be the canary in the coal mine>
You are correct. It was created by government and could be eliminated the same way.
Congress will say the first 25k withdrawn out of Roth IRA/roth 401k is tax free per year. Anything else withdrawn out of Roth IRA/roth 401k will be taxed
Please, please, don’t give the politicians and ideas 😊. I’m sure they have people thinking about all the options for getting additional revenues without taxing Roth distributions. You came up with a good list that I had not considered. I agree with you, people need to have money in different accounts (regular savings, traditional brokerage, IRA, HSA, and Roth accounts).
I was thinking the same thing.
Well the first place they are going to look is where there is income that has never been taxed. 🤔 This leaves gains on the withdrawals much like selling stocks where you would pay on the gains.
Clearly this man is an optimist.
15 years ago, I sat down with a financial adviser and he told me the options for our 401k. He said Roth’s might be become taxable in the future and he recommended I go with pretax.
I went against his advice and went with Roth 100%. Glad I did. My retirement is growing tax free. But just talking about this threat of taxation will make people do pretax more than Roth. Then the government will get you on your family on the way out of this world. Secure act: 10 years to liquidate your account.
What is the difference between taxing social security and not taxing Roth. The social security tax reduction is based on non inflationary tables.
This is where the people need to stay on top of the bills their state is always trying to pass some crap through. Get involved and fight fight fight! Power in numbers!
The argument that will be used is traditional sources of retirement income are taxed at your current rate on the full distribution amount annually…. So in order to be fair we need to tax the income from the gains that has never been subjected to taxation ever……I am not saying how this will play out……. The issue always is where does the money come from to feed the federal government and from where it will be extracted.
3:15. IRAs table is interesting. What’d be nice to know is what percentage of all federal politicians now and likely future elected even, have Roth IRAs. My guess is the percentage is high. Large portions of these folks are relatively high net worth individuals. So not only do they likely have an acct. also likely they’ve fairly high acct balances. So … attacking Roth in direct or even most indirect taxation methods would be shooting thenselves in the foot
I am not sure when that has ever stopped them.
Wouldn't the capital gains rules or something like that apply?. The eventual gains would not have been taxed.
They will do it indirectly by adding Roth withdrawals to other income for calculating the other tax, just like tax free income is added back for calculating IRMAA.
Of course the gov could tax your already taxed income - they do it all the time already.
Yep, any sales or use tax comes to mind.
There is no doubt in my mind, that they will find a way to tax the Roth, I can only hope I'm already dead before they do. As you said, they can "tax" it many ways without "directly" taxing it. Great video .
Thanks Devin
They are just after the gains the contributions have already been taxed.
I think it's more likely that they'll increase the taxation on corporate earnings. It's also possible that they'll start to include Roth distributions in the formula to determine what percentage of Social Security is taxable, much like is done now with municipal bond interest (which is supposed to be Federal tax exempt, but is not really because of the Social Security formula)
IRMA calculations and social security seem to be the most likely to me. They’re backdoor Roth taxes.
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How can we generate more revenue during quantitative times? I can't afford to see my savings crumble to dust.
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You're right! The very first time I tried, I invested $1000 and after a week, I received $5,500. That really helped us a lot to pay up our bills.
I am grateful to her. though I started with as low as $1,500 actually because it was my first time and it was successful she's a great personality in the state..
How do I connect her please??
Yes, the tax is called "inflation."
Be real easy to do a covert way around it. Only requires creating a sales or VAT tax. So every dollar spent is taxed.
True, but this would only tax the spending of funds……. Not the withdrawal of funds or income which is the real goal…..
It’s possible.
Roth has already been taxed so all they can tax would be the gains on the base
Correct, that would be my guess. They will tax the gains on your Roth. They may determine based on the value of your Roth, IRA’s or income level what the threshold for taxability will be.
Will they go retroactive?
That's where they will START. But like everything the government starts it only gets bigger and more intrusive.
Social security gets taxed twice! After the rules changed!
@@randolphh8005 the tax increase of 1993 applied automatically to everyone. 😞 Actually, they both (taxes) did.
Nothing the Government does suprises me. I lost my butt in the Fifth Third catastrophe last year.
It is one of my biggest fears. Especially after the talk about removing the 401k tax deferment on traditional accounts which would turn them into nothing more than a restricted brokerage.
Never count out a government that wants all of your money.
If they will not curtail spending the future is more taxation.
My guess if this happens it would likely be for the highest of Roth accounts like Peter Thiel who had $5 Billion in his account as of 2019. Likely the estate would be taxed above the inheritance tax threshold.
@@jnalley Maybe that was a proposal that didn’t become law, but doing a search for that I couldn’t find anything on a $10 Million max.
@@jnalley I think it would be good as well but should match the inheritance tax free threshold which is inflation indexed.
Highly unlikely it will be retroactive but future earnings in the Roth could be taxable but still derred
They can just tax the gains on withdrawals much like they already due with stock sale gains.
Casting greedy eyes….yep, after they get insider trading money on a monthly basis.
Taxes at historical lows and people are still complaining they are taxed too much!!
I dont think it's a simple yes, because if Congress attempted to do so, it would be immediatey challenged. People like to refer to taxing social security, but not taxing social security was never codified in the Internal Revenue Code. So, social security was always fair game to be taxed on Congressional whim. In contrast, Roth is codified in the Code with very specific language. Congress would have to get over the Constitutional hurdle of due process, which it simply could not do. In addition, it is unlikely Congress would try to do something directly for the reasons you presented. "Directly" is the operative word you chose, because Congress could impose stealth taxes to indirectly tax and/or sunset Roth, but look at where the low hanging greater amount of fruit is: it's in tax-deferred accounts. Roth balance is still far less than tax-deferred balance, so the easy fruit is tax-deferred, where there is no Constitutional hurdles. Because tax-deferred has no constraints to Congressional whims and offers the largest revenue source, why people continue to advocate tax-deferred is beyond me, even for the tax deduction. People who say that you'll be in a lower marginal rate in the future so take the tax deduction now, seem to ignore the whole purpose of investing: you'll have investment gains. RMD will hit hard, on top of soc sec, and especially if you have other income sources like pensions. If you are married, just think what will happen to the surviving spouse tax situation going from married to single filer. Having non-deductible pret-tax is unavoidable given that Roth 401k match has been tax-deferred and companies have yet to jump on offering match in Roth.
No one can predict the future…. My great grand parents lived in a time before there was any federal income tax. My parents lived in a time before they taxed any social security. In my lifetime the state raised the sales tax along with the state income tax.. I could mention others , but the point is over time they find additional ways of taxing an individual. The intention is alway to go after the rich.. ex (Peter Thiel massive complex Roth ). The funny thing is the definition of rich ends up appearing lower over time. They can change how your income is viewed by adding an Irmaa on other things. By adjusting how your AGI is calculated or whether you would qualify for other tax breaks. My point is never say never at the end of the day everything around taxes has been and will continue to be fluid change is only one bill passed into law around the corner.
I’m sure they are working on it
all they have to do is add a federal sales tax or vat tax. then anything you would take out to spend will be taxed at the purchase.
NO, No, No, No! They don’t need to add any taxes. We are taxed way too much now! They need to cut spending - drastically!
A national sales tax of 1 percent will be seen as “fair”
What worries me, is the reality that there will be politicians, who have the attitude that anyone who has, should have it taken from them by force, and given to those who don't. In other words, those of us who did without for 30-40 years, put money aside while also paying into FICA, that they will reduce the amount of Social Security, by the amount that I'll get from my 403b and Roths. If and when that happens, there'll be nothing I can do about it.
For those who say that will never happen, don't forget the politician in 2008 who said it was our moral and ethical duty to walk away from our homes which were upside down due to bank greed, and also the politician at the same time, who said "Give us your 401 and 403, for a guaranteed 2% growth".
Of course they could. Remember the promise that social security would never be taxed. Try to get in on it before the house of cards falls. No guarantees.
Fact, Roth accounts are primarily owned by the upper class. Those people are easy to tax, but since they are also the donor class, they have power to pay off politicians. In the end a redistribution of wealth will lead to a look at Roth monies.
All speculation, never change with Roth contribution up to current year. Future years could always have changes. 2025 tax changes are coming!
#4 the government loves the Roth because the overwhelming amount of people pay less taxes in retirement
They changed the rules on Social Security in the middle of the game so the politicians will do anything they want to do.
If the government is going to tax gains on Roth investments, will they allow deductions for losses from other income. This sounds like it would turn Roths into normal taxable investment accounts. It really bugs me that Congress would even think of changing the rules after the “game” has already started.
They essentially already have. A few years ago they added (changed) the law on ROTH's in that anyone that inherits a ROTH is REQUIRED to spend those gains from them within 10 years after they are inherited. That more than likely will throw that person or persons into a much higher tax bracket thus the government regains that money back quicker!
What always puzzles me, is ALL the extra money the government is getting off of these humungous lotteries and other types of wagering (gambling) that they didn't have before. The big push for online gambling is HUGE. Starting to see about as much advertising on TV for online betting as one does for pharmaceuticals in our area. It is kind of scary. They have betting for ANY imaginable category. Just saying. Like the old saying "The more you make the more you spend"
This is how the federal income tax started….. This is how social security became taxed…… etc. etc.
@@bryanfoxx2292 The required distributions from inherited Roths will not be taxed, though. At least this is how it stands for now. Traditional IRAs that are inherited will indeed mess up the income tax bracket for the person on the receiving end.
@@July.4.1776 Yeah, even a federal income tax is relatively recent in American history. I'm not opposed to reasonable taxes. But the constantly changing rules, and their complexity, is what pisses me off. But if you're rich enough to buy government influence, I guess you're happy.
Sure they can, they can also tax your bank accounts, just ask the people of Greece.
For sure they currently tax any interest you gain.
Okay a work around tax.Goverment will always make up a new tax for there out of control spending.They can not even fix Social Security that's because the money they would take in will not be able to be used for stupid spending.Think about how the Government works gives me a headache.
The money has already been taxed. So dont bring it up. Not gonna happen dude
if one is on SSI and then reach retirement age and then gets SS Does he or she lose the SSI
If their SS exceeds their SSI amount then I think they would lose the SSI. If their SS is less than their SSI then I believe they would get their SS & then the remainder of their SSI.
Could this just be political mudslinging from one side of the aisle toward the other (with taxpayers caught in the middle as usual). While this Roth topic is new to me, I've also seen one that mentions eliminating 401k's and such. Either way I have my Gallagher tailor-made clear plastic poncho ready and waiting.
I doubt this would happen.
They are mad about Peter Thiel
For
In our state they went from not taxing pensions to taxing pensions….. 🤔 It very well could happen……. They will probably just freeze them, and only tax the gains leaving the principal alone. 😬😬
If I am out of place, then please accept my apology, but would you mind identifying which that is. Thank you.
Sneaky Illinois Democrats keep trying to do that also.
Most Americans will not retire if the invasion of their home continues much longer. Think, people.
I've heard that argument over the years about taxes being lower in retirement which might be true, but I still would rather do the Roth IRA in retirement as an effort to reduce expenses as much as possible while no longer employed with a steady paycheck.
Pretax accounts get taxed when withdrawn. Roth gains can be taxed at withdrawal 😂
Stupid idea. If comgress wants to do this they should prevent future Roths. Do not tax exisging accounts.
It would be stupid to tax Roths. Most people save nothing for retirement so by increasing taxes on savers, the government will be responsible for supporting even more people.
Washington is full of stupid ideas
They will tell you it’s redistribution……. I am not saying this is correct…. I am just telling how they will explain it….
The 2020 Secure Act turned my longterm financial planning on its ear. After 30+ years in a deferred comp plan the rules get changed. How is this even legal? I worked hard, many hours of overtime, lived without certain items, sacrificed all under the rules of the plan etc.... Along the way I'm teaching my 2 daughters about doing the same. Now I'm not sure I should be pushing them that direction if the rules can be changed in a negative way on them? How come people were not grandfathered in under pre-secure act rules? I'm talking about how the Stretch IRA was eliminated for a non-spouse. Any thoughts?
Change is always happening. …..
With the way our government has grown, it's facist position on its citizens, increasing welfare benefits and resulting debt....wouldn't shock me at all that they'll ATTEMPT to do it. It's up to citizens to stand up against it.
Devon you don’t have to worry irs and the fed will be gone next year
Some are claiming this discussion is fear mongering. We have to let people know what can happen, so mainstream media doesn't cover it up. We need to have our eyes open and watch for politicians to open a back door somewhere, and then sneak something through. We've seen it before. Who remembers "You Can Read the Bill AFTER it Passes"? And, Illinois keeps trying this with respect to pension taxes. Forewarned is forearmed.
Why would it be taxed again when it's already been taxed? Who would ever sign up for that?
Every dirtbag politician that we have elected.
They won’t tax what has already been taxed your contributions….. They will just will just tax the gains in the name of fairness.
What percentage of all retirement accounts are in Roth? 10 or 15% is my guess. Not enough to move the needle.
The video says 25% of people have Roths. They leave out the total value however.
25% of IRAs, that’s not all retirement accounts. You need to include 401ks and IRAs, then you have all retirement accounts
@@andrewroth9175 some people never admit they were wrong. You are one of them. Poor look.
@@johnluiten3686…Look up Peter Thiel his massive Roth is where the big $$$ are at. The old story goes why did the bank robber rob the bank? His reply was well that’s where the money was at. It’s the same with taxes they will look to find more revenue from those that have wealth and income. You simply cannot extract it from someone that doesn’t have either.
Eliminating the IRS and replacing the income tax with a 23% national sales tax is the stated policy of many Republicans. The Republicans in the House wrote HR.25 - FairTax Act of 2023 (but did not pass it) to make this happen. Both Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy endorsed it. Donald Trump was against it.
There is no carveout for Roth accounts, so (already taxed) Roth money would be taxed again.
Likelihood of directly taxing Roth? LOW
Likelihood of new consumption tax? HIGH
Likelihood of both the above happening…….Above average………
Brevity? 1:19 into a 10:21 video and still, nothing more than repeating the same question as the title. We knew the title going in. Or, you could have simply restated it. ONCE. How long would your viewer need to watch to hear more than the question. I gave up.
California is changing their laws regarding inheriting a home. They plan to re-assess a property when the owner passes away and tax the inheritors with the MUCH larger 'assessed value'. Why wouldn't they also charge everyone as a percentage of their total net worth, and why not charge everyone that dies 50% of all their assets?
Elections have consequences. Who cut your taxes ladt time and who will let those tax cuts expire?
Who made them permanent for some people?
Who is even seriously raising the issue?
I inherited a Roth and have said what the government giveth the government can then taketh away.
Shouldn't all our "after tax" money investments be Tax free??
Time for a Tea party 😮
I doubt it will happen.
Leave our investments alone. Many seniors are going broke trying to pay for healthcare. How about spending less on the military? Put back the money taken out of Social Security that was put in the general fund.
No one is talking about this.
Looks like 165 comments on this page . 🤔
No. I dont think it would be possible you would have to prove growth it the Roth and somehow separate the growth and tax only the growth dude. Otherwise it would be double taxation. Why are you even bringing it up then proving it isnt gonna happen. Such a waste of my time
Actually this is how stock sales are treated now. The gains are taxed when you sell. 🤔
And make u pay tax twice on the same amount only if they are looking for another war at home !! U gotta quit the crap Rielling people up over no.
Well the fact is they never quit spending. The revenue has to come from somewhere. They cannot extract it from the poor so it always ends up working its way to the middle class.
Yes they can but it would be political suaside as they would find them selfs voted out of office as everyone on both sides of the political isle would hate them
They probably said that exact same thing when they started the federal income tax, and taxing social security etc. etc.
It’s not THE GOVERNMENT! It’s THE DEMOCRATS!! Get it right Devin.
These greedy democrats would steal candy from a baby
They will tax it like the way our Social Security are taxed. Don't be surprised if they use the same numbers from Social Security (%50/%85) or maybe treat it like capital gains.
SSI is not taxed like that.
Of all the levers we could pull to increase taxes, why the hell would they pull this one? We'd vote put anyone that even thought of proposing something like this.
In reality, it's a Democrat from Minnesota that wants to make your social security tax exempt. Yet keep voting red.
It’s where the money is at. Think Peter Thiel
@July.4.1776 There is plenty of money to be gained else where that wouldn't cause a riot, like increasing income taxes, a land value tax, hell, even an investment tax would be more popular than taxing Roths.
Is this what this channel has come to? Fear mongering clickbait? You string people along through almost the first quarter of this video. To all you viewers out there. There are plenty of other channels that provide great retirement advice with out this kind of BS. You don't need the stress or drama.
He’s just discussing possibilities. No fearmongering intended,
@@ws775That's the classic response. "I'm just asking the question." "Could so and so be corrupt? I'm just asking the question." "Wouldn't it be awful if something happened to so and so? I'm just asking the question." If you have a UA-cam channel with hundreds of thousands of followers, you're sophisticated enough to know what you are doing.
@@ws775…. I agree with you 100% at the end of the day the revenue has to come from somewhere.