How The Left Helped Make Andrew Tate Popular
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- 😎 SIGN UP TO CANVASS! www.vaush.gg/map
🔴 Website - www.vaush.gg/
💵 Patreon - / vaush
🌟 Other Socials 🌟
⭐️ 2nd Channel - / thevaushpit
👀 3rd Channel? - / @vaushvidya
🐦 Twitter - / vaushv
👾 Twitch - / vaushvidya
📸 Instagram - / vaushv
🔵 Facebook - / vaushvidya
🎵 TikTok - / vaushvidya
🎙Podcast - anchor.fm/vaush
Intro animation credit goes to / itismekyleg & / honeybunnbadger for the visuals, and / sound_sierra for the audio! Thank you!
#vaush #andrewtate
I have one minor thing I want to address. The idea that girls are somehow all swarmed by boys who are approaching them kinda stings. When I was a high school girl… I was painfully shy. I’m also neurodivergent (adhd diagnosed, but idk sometimes there is overlap). I can promise that boys were not approaching me during my teen years. If I went on a date it was because I did the asking and I was rejected (painfully I might add) multiple times. Nobody was fighting to date teenage me. It wasn’t until college that I actually experienced guys showing interest in me and approaching me. Likely due to my lack of success in dating during high school I am definitely more empathetic toward young men who are struggling. I just think it would be kind of good to acknowledge that not all women have an easy time dating. And not from the “oh wow these men suck” angle, but from a “wow nobody likes me huh? Must be something wrong with me” angle. It had me thinking like “boys are supposed to be approaching me, but they aren’t… now how am I supposed to approach them?” Because that went against social norms. Idk I often feel like this isn’t a common experience women talk about and it makes me feel like it must just be me sometimes. Maybe part of it is being neurodivergent. But it feels lonely nonetheless.
this also.
I'm glad you talk about this. I'm not sure how much neurodivergency matters in this case but it seems to be a common experience for both neurodivergent men and women. The shallow solution "conform more and look better" only helps to internalize these issues. I wonder why there seems to be a much bigger demand for "dating advice" in men than women despite a roughly comparable number of singles... societal expectations play a role and there's certainly a big correlation between advice and misogyny but there IS a large amount of single women that seems to be overlooked.
I'm in this comment and I don't like it :P. There were lots of girls like this in my school as well. The right weaponises boy's loneliness really well. But yeah, worst case teen girls fall prey to older men quite a lot because they are also vulnerable, self conscious, and lonely.
I have since found out plenty of boys fancied me at the time. No use to me a decade later.
If a woman don't conform to the standard of beauty or behavior, she's done unless she breaks the social norms in some way.
When these types of men think about the "average woman" they think about the hot girl they have a crush on, ignoring that half of average women are not considered conventionally up to beauty standards. Then there are women who are neurodivergent, painfully shy, disabled etc. who really don't get attention, hell boys might even bully them and make fun of them in highschool. I saw that happen to some girls who didn't meet the popularity standard.
But it's a similar thing when women think about "male privilege" they are often thinking about a more attractive conventional man who meets the ideals of masculinity and is confident enough to know it. There are men with feminine mannerisms who are disrespected, men who are too short, too skinny, have bad acne, awkward, disabled etc. who just don't realistically feel that they experience privilege from being who they are. Those top CEOs positions are not going to them, other men don't care much to socialize with them and women will mostly just ignore them out of impulse, because most women have bad experiences with unknown men approaching them.
They are lonely, depressed, isolated, and then unfortunately, a common Left-wing response often is to tell them they brought it upon themselves and they need to get over it.
I will say one thing that Andrew has taught me. Men are far easier to groom than women.
And nothing is harder to groom than a poodle 🐩
Props to women
I think younger men are on social media more so that contributes
Well, yeah. Men typically have shorter hair. 😉
One word: Oprah
I’ll be honest, Vaush being way better about mens issues is part of the reason I was drawn towards the left. I had already fallen out of the far right for a while when I found his channel, but I never felt like I could go farther left because I had assumed going farther left would mean I would have to ignore men’s issues. Few on the left acknowledges the issues and I’m glad vooch does. Obviously, the looming attempts at destroying democracy and trans genocide from the right is our number 1 concern, but we need to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.
Regarding multitasking: People really love to forget that the trans category includes TRANS MEN, and not just women and nonbinary people. This never fails to get under my skin as a trans man. This deep into transitioning, nine times out of ten I'm going to have more in common with other men in terms of problems, expectations to deal with, and how I think/process emotions. (Sure, a lil' fruitier, but no more than your average gay cis guy.) The sense of alienation with the left on men's issues is just as strong for somebody like me, and even stronger in some aspects, because instead of just being born Inherently Icky Bad And Dangerous, I get to feel like I engaged in a betrayal of all my progressive values by actively pursuing being a man and loving it. This really messed me up and made me engage in a lot of suppression as a teenager.
@@eldritchtourist it’s wild watching folks immediately double back on their “men are a lost cause” rhetoric as soon as a trans man shows up to try and pretend like it’s not reactionary.
he is discussing with a twitter coment that is a clear generalization, the person does not actualy believe all me are like this
@@eldritchtourist Congrats, you earned you "incel" and "potential rapist" badge. Welcome.
Trans genocide… don’t forget the black genocide, Asian genocide, overweight genocide and homosexual genocide
My mom is a liberal. My dad, my sister, and I are all bernie supporters. My brother is a huge andrew tate stan who is currently talking about how he was framed. Yes a ton of these stans r coming from liberal households
Sounds similar to my family, brothers a total misogynist who is most likely declaring this as a "don't believe everything on the news" situation like he did whenever anything about Trump came up or was resurfaced...but jumped right on the "Hillary and her emails" bandwagon very fast. Part of his thinking (if you can call it that) is to not be another sheep, so he just has to have views so different from me, our sisters and parents...the other part of it unfortunately is our bio father is also a raging misogynist.
"liberal households" lol
So your mom is a liberal, ans so is your dad, sister, and you as well.
Vaush continuing to show that he actually cares about making the world a better place and not just appearing “morally pure” like so many others.
I actually appreciate that he went through how younger guys use the internet for everything, because up till now my advice for these men as an older guy has always been "I dunno. Go outside. Meet some people. Don't be a fucking creep" and I've been completely unable to offer any practical advice beyond that.
Like I do empathise with Big Joel because while I held some shitty ideas as a teenager, I was never like the modern red pill movement and it's really easy for me to see these guys as just being weirdos and nothing more. But I appreciate that since Vaush is younger than me that he might know a better way of dealing with them.
No, exactly opposite. He is doing it now because he will get clout for it. There are people that were saying this for years. He could be doing this far before. Now when society realized, OK, maybe we are too harsh on men, now you will see people started talking about it. Were was he when there actually was rise of incels? Sh*tting on them. All the time. Props for actually doing something but Vaush is not just appearing morally pure is BS. Huge BS.
@@ng4logic Man, he's been streaming for only about three years and I've seen him with this exact take for at least half of that. Stay mad.
@@ng4logic Nah I don't buy that, the incels and the manosphere of 2010 - 2016 really were just weird little freaks, other figures have just adopted their rhetoric and THEY'RE influencing impressionable guys.
@@ng4logic he’s had this take for about as long as he’s been around
Andrew Tate is now officially the world's biggest *in-cell.*
Lol
hyyyooooooh!
lol 😂😂😂
I was watching this segment on stream and was very appreciative of the sensibility and sensitivity with which you approach this problem. I'm one of your older fans, in my 40s. Back when I was a young man we didn't have the word "incel" but I fit the description in all but political ideology. I was and have always been a progressive, but I became very sexually frustrated and had the right person come along and manipulated that frustration, I have no idea how far I could have been pulled over. Thankfully, in my mid 20s I met someone, and lived happily ever after... until I hit 40. I basically had a midlife crisis, mental breakdown, found out she was cheating, broke up, basically became homeless and had to sleep on couches... and somehow the only person that was able to make any sense of what was going on was... Jordan Peterson. He swooped in and took over my life for a few months after the pandemic started, I was hurt and lonely, and very pessimistic of my chances of ever getting back into a relationship with someone. Jordan had all the answers and let me off the hook while at the same time making me think he was telling me to act more responsibly. He's dangerous. I was halfway down that rabbit hole when, again, by sheer luck I met someone who loved me and reinstilled in me the progressive ideals that I had begun to lose sight of.
Never ever underestimate the power of sexual frustration to turn a man into a monster, EVEN IF he was a liberal progressive before becoming sexually frustrated.
Good to hear, man. Sounds like you did alot of self reflection to understand what your thought patterns were and how to constructively change them
I hope you're doing better these days.
Your issues matter, men matter.
I know I get lost in my own problems because trans people are actively being targeted right now but that doesn't mean that I can't also advocate for yours and other men's rights.
That's good to hear you were able to get pulled out of it! I grew up very conservative and religious, and started pulling away in my latter teenage years and rethinking my views on a lot of things due to more and more experiences. However, one thing that I never really thought about or questioned for a long time was expectations ingrained by things like church, media, and influences from elders regarding how to view women and relationships a certain way. Having had some severe social anxiety, I felt a lot of pressure to try to meet women but that led to me getting mistreated (and to I made my own mistakes too), and there was a point in 2011 where I was extremely close to falling into that negative mindset due to those expectations. Thankfully, I was lucky to be in a few friend groups with women who were open about talking their experiences, as well as stumbling across a reddit thread about women talking about similar issues, and I had the willingness to take in these accounts and reflect on my attitudes towards things. Being how close this was to the whole incel / PUA / Gamergate discourses that started up around that time, I often reflect on how close I had gotten to going down a pretty dark path, and instead became a man people have been able to look to as someone to trust and feel secure around, which has been far more rewarding overall.
When you're hurting, it's incredibly easy for someone with some simple scapegoat to come along and take advantage of that vulnerability unless you have the presence of mind to watch out for it.
@@TheXVodkaXFairy thank you, that really means a lot. When our problems overwhelm us, they can make it hard, even impossible to see what others are going through. I went through that for such a long time. Every time I would have a conversation and hear about the other person's problem it was like a smack in the face. Oh yeah, I'm not the only one suffering here. That's why I try to spend as much time as I can nowadays talking to people going through hard times. If I go too long without doing that I slip back into my dark hole.
I'm also very sensitive to what trans people are going through. When I was facing homelessness the only person who gave me a chance and became my roommate was a trans woman who hardly knew me at the time but is today my best friend. And this was right at the same time I was going through this peterson shit. Looking back, thinking about her walking around our apartment hearing his hate spewing from my laptop, I feel so much shame that I apologize to her almost daily for it. She always tells me not to feel bad about it, because she's just awesome.
You rock, dude. Glad you found someone who mattered.
"Why should I care about men's dating"
Ok, sense empathy is off the table: Because your opponents do. Andrew Tate became a multi millionaire by caring about "men's dating habits," and has won a lot of young people over to his side (broadly, the right).
Tate became a millionaire through MMA and sexual exploitation of women
This is like the equivalent of a "Its not my JOB to educate you" post that would've become popular on tumblr in like 2014
Frankly if you want to make the world a better place, then yes, it is your job to point people towards good ideas, and convince them to abandon bad ideas.
@@tombrown407 yup. that's why that line became a meme and an reason a lot of people online turned to the right.
I hate when things that are designed to encourage compassion about the experiences of marginalized people get turned into a complete abdication of responsibility for your own actions and their consequences. It’s like how the idea of tone-policing went from “don’t tell people not to be upset about things that are hurting them” to “don’t ever criticize the way anyone communicates an idea, regardless of how distant they are from the impacts of it or how counterproductive they’re being”.
YES, holy fuck, I hate that line so much. Very few things make me irrationally angry more than that does. It's so fucking intellectually lazy.
but have you tried educating these people? i have, and it seems like literally nothing can get thru to them. sometimes its easier for my own well being, mental health, and energy to decide that yes, today, it is not my job to educate a bunch of ignorant assholes that wont even listen to me because im a woman.
The tweet at the start is a good example of the curse of knowledge. Because you know the underlying goals of fascism, you assume anyone who gets involved in it knows about those goals too.
Right on the nose!
Oh god wait the rest of this guys content is so stupid. Good take right here tho
@@felicitys3621 My video debunking Ben Shapiro's transphobia was stupid?
No, it's not that you assume they know, it's that it doesn't matter whether they know or not because the effect is the same. Vaush is constantly talking about how people who spread anti-Jewish propaganda in Germany contributed to the outcome, even though they didn't know that's what would happen. Now suddenly in this video and everyone in the comments is doing a 180. I feel like I'm being gaslit. If you tell people the alt right pipeline leads to racial hatred, just if you tell red pillers it leads to misogny, they don't want to hear it. As Vaush states explicitly they are motivated by insecurity and don't want to think they are doing something wrong. And when the Left does say it, we are criticised for not being compassionate like the tweet. And then when we just don't want to bother getting it from both sides, Vaush criticises the Left for "not wanting to talk about it."
@@JebeckyGranjola The effect is the same, but how you prevent that effect depends on who you're engaging with. A person who believes misinfo can have their mind changed. A person lying intentionally cannot.
Why don't black people vote Republican, despite having a lot of conservative values?
...At least in part, it's because Republican messaging to black people is basically "Life is fair, fuck you, pull yourself up by your bootstraps already. You want advice? Git gud."
Why are we surprised when we do the same thing to young men, and get the same result?
I really wish the left would get their shit together on this issue.
There’s not much to do because men will not care if it doesn’t affect them. Men don’t care to see things through a woman’s perspective they’re not gonna care if it’s damage and they’re not even know how it’s damaging because they purposely choose to ignore it. No matter what the left is I don’t think we can really prevent it from happening. I mean if there were more guys like Avage that would probably help because these men don’t give a fuck about what a woman Hass to say but listening to another man who looks pretty masculine I mean yeah they listen to that
Don't wish. Engage and try to explain this to them. This status quo will f us up if not treated.
I wish the left would get their shit together on any issue imo
I agree.
I really wish the left would get their shit together.
I met a guy a while back who was a huge fan of Tate. I honestly was baffled because he seemed like quite an introspective dude. One time, he laid out his political beliefs for me, so I said,
"Oh, so you're a fascist?"
He replied with "What's a fascist?"
These people aren't choosing to support certain ideas because they establish their supremacy over others. They're flocking to these movements because they found someone who embodies the little voice in the back of their heads, and feel less shame than ever to let it out.
But that same voice (like Tate) is wholly incapable of actually *teaching* them anything that isn't the type of conclusion you get from basic, ignorant observation.
"Oh, so you're a fascist?" don't actually communicate like that though. it does the thing.
@@JewTube001 I meant it in the most harmless and genuine way possible, what with how he described his views. It sounded like he was a genuine fascist.
"These people aren't choosing to support certain ideas because they establish their supremacy over others."
Be careful not to generalize in either direction. SOME of these people aren't choosing, but there are also SOME that in fact _do_ choose. That's all we can say with certainty because it's a mixture of _individuals,_ not a hive mind or monolith.
It's exactly the "Are we the baddies?" sketch. The audience of these people don't see themselves as the ones doing anything bad but fighting for the good.
@@MickeyMouse-lm6zj Tate uses truisms to spill verbal garbage. You know saying shit like "have more confidence", "go work out", "don't listen to haters"... this is kitsch wrapped in a nice paperwrap. You can take any statement that's universally agreed on and manipulate it to whatever you want to. It appeals to 13 year olds like Trump's aesthetics appeal to a dumb's person idea of a successful businessman.
I think Vaush was right on the money here. You can't solve a problem if you don't know its root cause. When you default to "they're just bad people," or "they just weren't raised right," all you're going to do is make them dig their heels in deeper and not even consider changing the way they look at the world or the way they behave. Bad self-esteem really does seem to be the common denominator here.
This is the same silly argument for liberals to reach across the aisle which of course is absurd. Most of these people are a lost cause.
@@alucard1116 Exhibit A of the smug, self-righteous "leftist" who's only in it for moral superiority points. This is cope.
Writing people off as all "bad people" is literally an excuse to feel comfortable hating them.
You can help some people
But there are gonna be times when you have to leave people by the side of the road and fall victim to their own vices.
@@FelisImpurrator well I’m not liberal and of course I’m fine hating bad people. Have fun trying to hug someone that actively wants to do you harm. What do you think we should do with Alex Jones or say that guy who murdered a bunch of people in a church?
@@alucard1116 you are falling into the trap of making people into a monolith. not every one of them is as bad as Alex Jones or these extremists. Some are just lonely kids who are being taken advantage of. And yeah, it twists them into something horrible, but that can (and is) undone.
You don't have to fix every single person on the right. But when you meet someone irl, or when you discuss these things, maybe show a little compassion. Don't dismiss someone's problems because of their gender. It isn't really all that hard, actually. It costs $0 to not be rude to a random stranger online.
I really appreciate you for talking about this. I found myself going down a dark rabbit hole some years ago but I was able to avoid it for two main reasons: I was older than those who are usually dragged and I'm black, a lot of these places had strong anti black sentiments. Having said that I acknowledge that while I pulled myself out others would have a much harder time or flat out be taken in by that nonsense.
Same.
I often dont get why there is such a hatred for black men in those spaces when they claim they fight for all men.
In my experience and looking around they basically think black men are overly masculine aka they think all black men are thugs and thugs are the definition of toxic masculinity.
You would think those types would admire thugs but apparently not and they treat all black men like we are all like that.
Tate ironically acts like most gang members in terms of how to treat women and he is admired.
Plus he is half black.
I really do not get it.
It's largely the same for me. I feel a sense of shame from it, but the contributing factors that kept me away from the right was their anti-black stance, and my family who were able to reconcile the ideas mentioned in the video, thus introducing intersectionality before I took a college course and officially learned the term.
Same with Asians. Source am Asian.
I had a similar thing prior to coming out as trans. It's hard to fall down rabbit holes when so many are racist, sexist, homo/transphobic. And at the time I was a mixed bi woman, the misogyny in particular was very palpable for me. A lot of spaces were incel driven too.
@@ludovicusbathory1715 It's intense insecurity.
That's what fuels everything.
Intense insecurity combined with their craving to generalize and otherize as much as possible.
Dehumanizing these young boys and calling them "bad" and "lost causes" pushes them away. People don't want to go where they're hated. We have to focus on behavior, realize the nuances of trauma, and give people a healthy way to reintegrate back into communities. Ppl don't understand generational trauma and how that manifests, its esp bad with poverty involved. Judging problems vs trying to solve them alwayd trips us up.
Agreed, ask any former cult member whether it was the shouting, screaming & insulting that helped them to escape or the person who spoke to them.
@@FROOB202 Your cult reference is spot on. As a trauma victim from a right leaning family - I was abhorrent and didn't even realize it was possible for people to love me. People being kind while holding me accountable completely changed me as a person. I believed men were superior too, and it's not because it "protected my status," its because that's how indoctrination works. Our culture has very little in ways of community so it's easy for people to be isolated by their parents.
It's funny how Andrew Tate can start with a hot take to get attention then he gives a more reasonable take. The left doesn't get that chance. We have to be 100% reasonable and accepting and tolerant toward bigots, because if we don't we're hypocrites. That's ridiculous. Because the right doesn't get held to any similar standard.
As a person who agreed with you in the Incel conversion arc 1.0, I cannot agree now. We have learned way more about the problem since then, and it seems the Incel movement is much harsher now and more mainstream. They are simply not interested in the left, unless they are vulnerable. Because of the right-wing propaganda machine any real or perceived action or reaction by the left is never the steelman. It is always the most obviously bad example they can find. How am I supposed to take responsibility for cringe online leftists?
Further, I want to give a message to all the online leftists. I don't care about your identity, that's not why I'm a leftist. I care because people on the left and right suffer due to economic issues that leftist policies can have a positive impact now. You are only hurting your own political prospects. The reason the right is winning is because they are always afraid of the social and political consequences when they go mask off or just open their mouth. Do that.
I like being hated though.
It was Vaush that vehemently defended the kind of typecasting "masculinity" rhetoric that comes from institutional feminism. Unless he criticized that later, I think it's hypocritical, and hypocritical for the left in general to pivot toward a benevolent stance while advocating for derive character tropes like the APA guidelines, and the framing of male problems as an internal issue of masculinity in general. I think Vaush and breadtube popularized that the feminist masculinity framing on the younger left, so I wonder why people aren't critical.
Thank you so much for continuing to argue this vaush. It's why i watch you. I feel very isolated and this kind of voice from the left genuinely stops me from being completely ostracized.
Me too I am so glad this popped up as I have become very isolated recently. I've even started to become resentful and angry and have begun considering some incel points again, obviously I wouldn't return there, but it's hard feeling like I'm not acknowledged and alone.
Feeling cared about and integrated into a community of people who love you is very important to humans. Please don't beat up on yourself because you desire that . Acceptance and love is important to every single human and you deserve it, even when you're not perfect.
@ShimmerBodyCream as much as I appreciate things like this. I just feel like it's empty meaningless words and the people who say that don't actually do anything or care.
@@coletrain546 I'm sorry, you deserve to feel cared about. it's hard to feel love when people haven't shown it. It's hard to believe when people have never given you a reason to believe.
For all you guys who feel abandoned, I feel for you. Society is changing fast and its causing waves. If i can make a suggestion, find something you enjoy and seek others who enjoy the same things. Get together in the real world by using Meetup groups or something similar. Im into pen and paper RPGs and its my hobby that keeps me plugged in. Otherwise all I'd do is work and sit alone at home consuming media. I honestly believe if it wasn't for my hobby i wouldn't be here right now. I wish only the best for all of you struggling, regardless of what those struggles might be.
Bro I literally just got an ad that said "stop being nice to women. Nice will never equal attracted to or turned on"
LIKE HOLY SHIT THIS FUCKED MESSAGING IS EVERYWHERE LOL
Its what frustrates me about the left. Everyone creates their own bubble within the left and they claim that those outside the bubble are innately flawed or horrible and you have to almost repent for the sin of being outside the bubble.
It got to the point where I muted all political talk on twitter and have just kept it for sports. Im still a leftist and always will. I will still argue with anyone that healthcare is a right, racism & sexism are big issues, corporations are f’ing us over, etc. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that some people on the left are just utter lunatics
I feel the same way. Sometimes you just gotta disengage. I consider myself a leftist and will remain a leftist, but gosh am I becoming depressed from seeing how deranged some people on the left are acting.
@@emilchan5379 remember the loudest of people tend to be the most damaged even somewhat mentally ill. And if they gain some power they can get followers.
Really or did you just make that up, also leftist are people too, we have flaws too, allow for that also.
I think you mostly made this up in your head.
I don't think people on the left does it more than others do.
Remember people regardless of position, sees thing from their point of view with their experience.
And people from "outside" can often feel excluded even though there is no exclusion intended.
Both are normal human experiences.
And are mostly fixed with being persistent and get to know each other over time.
It’s Twitter. Most obnoxious ppl are the loudest on there.
"everyone creates their own bubble... Claim that those outside the bubble are innately flawed or horrible." I think this describes vaush's community as much as anyone else's. And a lot of other big streamers. It becomes personality focused, people defend their favorite streamer or internet personality found and not ideas. And then they complain that everyone else on the left has lost their mind. I feel like if there's one then you could say about the vaush community it's that it is constantly complaining about everyone else on the left is wrong about everything.
And I would say 70 to 80% of the time these critiques are coming from the relative right side of the argument. I go on the subreddit and people are calling Noam Chomsky and Jeremy corbyn tankies. It's getting kind of excessive.
Ignoring Men's issues so that we can focus on everyone else has always struck me as still sexist, just because we talk about things besides just men shouldn't mean we can't talk about men too. Men's issues should matter just as everyone else's does. Not to mention how criminally bad and sometimes actually criminal the advice men get from conservatives, we need advice from people who aren't monsters thank you very much.
Vaush is at his absolute best when he is discussing this topic 💯
A million percent. He nails this shit
These videos are a testament to adults forgetting what it's like to be a kid. It's insane how complex they assume they are when it suits their narrative.
one of the reasons the red pill even exists is because of how poorly people in general, in particular the left, have handled men's issues. People like Andrew Tate and Fresh & Fit would have zero followers because there would be no disenfranchised men to pander to. For the record I don't like any of the red pill gurus and it irritated me that they were able to take up some of these issues and get a huge following because people like Hasan and Moist Critikal have such bad takes on the same topics.
disagree on Charlie having bad takes on that.
So nice of Vaush to wear his kid gloves while handling delicate Little Joel, who as we all know never grew as big and strong as his older, handsomer and more successful brother Big Joel.
I like this comment. It’s a good one
I blame all the Oompa Loompas.
Sadly, Little Joel has left us following this video in an unrelated incident
A big reason I wasn’t a leftist for so long is I couldn’t find a leftist community that didn’t openly say really callous and awful stuff about men. I always felt hated. You helped open the door for me, as well as contra and philosophy tube.
I’m sorry you were made to feel hated and outcasted. Hopefully nowadays you’ve found more levelheaded people
High Thumos!
The best spaces for that are places such as r/MensLib and creators like Vaush who talk about mens issue while remaining feminist and not falling into anti-feminist incel mens right movement bs. As a trans man, I find a lot of transmasc spaces to be pretty positive towards masculinity, since many of us have fought hard to have the right to exist as men or masculine people and we like to celebrate that. I think we also offer an perspective for cis men to also reflect on defining their own masculinity, so even if youre not trans yourself you might find our conversations insightful.
Philosophy Tube, Vaush, and ThoughtSlime were my “big three” to fully pull me out of the DNC.
Literally
Hey I'm not sure if this taboo to point out. But if 12 year old me saw that Big Joel and a scrawny dude was telling me that advice didn't work. And then saw Andrew Tate who's freaking jacked and told me exclusively what I already was feeling was not only valid, but something I should feel angry about who would I side with?
Especially if you asked 12 year old me. Who's the one who likely gets with more women Joel or Andrew Tate? Another reason why Hasan is massively popular and influential on the left
@John Smith 13 year old me would tell some older people that Beavis&Butthead was awful, but I'd still go home and watch that sht. I'm just sayin
I forgot what the post said, but I remember once in an Instagram comment section on a feminist page I followed I had said something about how sometimes I felt like the page was getting into misandrist territory, and the way to get the message across isn't to belittle men constantly but to help them understand why we have the issues we do. Especially because young men who are still learning about stuff will see a post like that and it will give us a bad rep and it's not going to get people to listen to us or change anything. I had so many people telling me I wasn't a legit feminist and I "clearly care more about mens feelings than women's issues". Yet that same account would also preach the true statement that real feminism is intersectional and benefits everyone. So which is it?
One issue I definitely have with our side of the spectrum is we'll claim to be for everyone but then refuse to be civil with each other. The left often cannibalizes itself unfortunately with all the infighting and it drives would be allies to the alt-right. God forbid I try and point out a way that the feminist movement can be more effective at its goals.
Part of the problem is that some people see the left as a kind of religion. An apocolytic religion that does not proselytize. The elect must discover the truth for themselves, and on Judgment Day they will be rewarded with being right. The idea of wanting to win is heresy.
@@Vernichterlein I can see that. I can't stand the alt-right because of the rhetoric they spread, but unfortunately for us they have better tactics. They know how to meet people where they are even if it's for a shitty purpose.
I think it's bill Clintons fault
Feminism is a movement, that is designed to work for women, but actually primarily upper class and upper middle class women. To some extent a movement that is so focused on a single group, may help that group gain rights. But mostly as long as that group is far behind in terms of rights. The closer it gets, the less effective it gets. Then to keep the base engaged it has to create enemies, that the base can relate to.
Feminsim is not a left movement, it s a movement, designed for women to be able to reach the elite, even the whole glass ceiling mantra tells you this. It isn't for equality and equity, it is there to help women reach to the very top. But had it been honest with that, it would have lost most of the base, when women gained basic rights, and the momentum of the movement really slowed down for working class and poor women. Today, most of the progress the movement is making, is actually at the expense of men, not lifting women to the same level of men. It has a poor track record of lifting wages of female dominated jobs to the male dominated jobs. And with the downwards pressure of wages in some areas, there are male dominated jobs today, that are just a dispriveleged as female dominated jobs.
The left needs strong females, able to tell about their experiences, so that womens needs aren't ignored. But that isn't really the issue with todays left, it is rather males that don't have a voice, and disenfranchised groups that have spokespeople that aren't representatives, either not part of the group at all, but someone of another disenfranchised group, or one that used to be traditionally, or someone that is a bad representative, because they actually don't share the experience of the group at large.
Feminsim, is however not really compatible with the left, so a strong femisist movement within the left, is actually not what the left needs.
I get that women, can be scared of again losing their voice, but they should have a good look at the history of the feminist movement, and the structure of it, and really evaluate if it is actually compatible with the left's ideals. (historically, the workers movement, left the women behind to serve the working men, but the feminist movement left women of color behind, even when there were some prominent figures in the movement that were women of color, so it has to come down to find oneself in a modern context).
BREAKING NEWS they Impounded all 33 of his Bugattis 😮
Men be killin themselves a bunch. This kind of empathy is life or death for them too.
Vaush is the only content creator I know of tackling these issues on the Left. It's appreciated.
@@morgancody6752 It's this impulse a lot of people have to not give a shit about individuals within a group because that group has privilege.
Anyway I know it's nuanced, but like, the Left viewpoint really DOES have answers that could help young men. It's a shame that so many seem so antagonistic towards the idea of providing that help.
Patriarchy, misogony, capitalism, etc., they're not good for men's mental health either *especially if the individual man is already NOT sexist*
*YESTERDAY I SPOKE TO AN ANDREW TATE STAN* His dad died last year, he is an amazing musician, he has struggled with depression all his life and what did the left offer him...???
People who mocked him for not being able to define Marxism correctly. Like it or not [and I DONT] he is alive today cos Andrew Tate told him he was worth something.
This is OUR problem, as a society and as leftists.
lol his dad is chess player and cia agent
@@hakangun9860 - And his mother is a cleaner
My das was an engineer at hartlepool nuclear power station, my mother ran a city farm. Are we just listing parents' occupations or something?
@@piccalillipit9211 why do you lie about his dad?
ididnt ask you what is your background .lol?
@@hakangun9860 the OP was talking the Andrew Tate Stan's occupation, not Andrew Tate's Dad's occupation ...........
@@strangemolars i dont care,he is hypocrite.
joel is wrong about advice in general. sometimes people really do need new ideas for how to improve their lives. sometimes they also need someone else to say something because that gives them a little push to get going on it.
The problem is producing advice that isn't overly generalized yet feels effective. It's why I don't do the advice business.
Ill be honest, 99% of people on the outspoken political left are not men young people would look up to, the guy in the video is an unkempt dweeb, if im being kind, and thats a trend.
@@cryptocaesar8972
for the most part i'd say big joel is a good guy to look up to. i just disagree with him on this point.
@@RilianSharp A homeless person can be a good guy, that doesnt mean you should take advice from them. On the topic of being an attractive man I dont see him offering anything.
@@cryptocaesar8972
a homeless person could also have good advice.
you don't find joel attractive? ok.
Big Joel really dropped the ball with that video. One thing I'd like to add about advice. Even if someone already knows what they need to do, sometimes it can be really validating to hear it from someone you look up/trust, just lay it out for you. It can be extremely reifying to hear the words that you may or may not know, and that can be enough to catalyse your belief in making those changes.
This works with the right all the time. Someone might be feeling bad about women, because say they had a bad date, and then they'll watch an andrew tate video and he'll plainly state that women are evil or something and that will reinforce that negative emotion that guy is feeling. The left has failed to offer those people anything that could help them overcome their worst impulses.
You never know if you missed a massive flaw in your ideas and hearing that someone else knows it works is extremely motivating and reassuring. Leaving people to make mistakes can be an important lesson, but there are times when you absolutely don't want to mess up and being left with nothing might make people latch onto harmful ideas.
I would be very interested to see vaush make a series of self help videos in the same vein as Tate and Peterson, but like... Good. He could just do a stream taking questions from chat and segment it out into specific topics, preferably bite sized so they're easy to share. Make it a playlist. I feel like vaush' specific dating experience is what people are actually looking for when they go to people like Tate, show them it's possible to have regular casual sex without having to pay for it lmao. Shit like "chicks dig autism" is so fucking true and absolutely the kind of advice men won't find anywhere else, despite being what many of them need to hear.
Agree 👍 It's good to address this issue, obviously, but it would be even better to actively put a load of content out there that targets these young guys. I feel like Vonch has talked about it but not really done much since a couple of years ago
He does have a playlist called "Vaush Talks Mental Health", but he hasn't updated it since June of '21 even though he's had a couple more videos about that sort of stuff. They're also all fairly long vids.
Joel's self help take is probably assuming most people have parents who give decent advice and are decent role models. There are so many people who didn't have that, therefore don't just know the right/good things to do.
I saw that tweet and instantly thought of Vaush. Not only do they not care about men, they don't care to talk about the advice you've given before. There several videos on your channel that aren't even necessarily male centered but can help out guys as much as girls. Even the quick off the dome shit you gave in this video was nice. Directing male behavior doesn't have to be this super personal thing like Joel thinks it does, the right for sure doesn't do that. And the right isn't more of an expert than the left yet they still try. Just giving any advice would be nicer than letting middle schoolers fall down the right wing pipeline in high school.
The left only cares about young men when they transition into young women
The amount of positive content tailored specifically for young men is crazy. Movies, books, tv, schooling. Nearly every superhero ever. What an insane idea that society isn’t providing positive messaging to young men. It’s just that the bad people are happy to lie and manipulate their audience.
@@alucard1116 Positive content yes, but not really any advice in movies, books, tvs and schooling. Most of the time it's just an affirmation of the patriarchy, which isn't really advise for male audience.
People are only able to prey on these young men because of the lack of good advice for them. They seek it in a way or another depending on who they reach first. It wouldn't hurt the left if we were the firsts to reach them
@@beck2310 the left needs to first stop despising young men
I'm not a guy(tho I lived as a guy for 3 years), but I fell down the anti-sjw rabbithole and was a full blown reactionary. most of the shit I did and said were to defend myself, cuz I was completely in this "everyone's against me" mindset and even saw it as malice when irl friends unfollowed me on twitter(I tweeted too much rant garbage that was making them uncompfortable).
so yeah I can confirm reactionary brain is solely emotions driven and always on defensive mode, cuz almost everything looks like a threat to you. it's completely fucked up.
it wouldn't have made much of a difference if I didn't turn out to have ADHD and autism, but the emotional turmoil caused by this "being that odd person" thing NDs often experince did exaggerate it
Neurodivergent people go down some strange paths, which is why they called that. I also have the dual diagnosis curse and I wish things had gone differently for me or that I reached out for help or at least got some when I was younger. Being 19 and never asking anybody out or having any consistent friendship has hammered me. I guess it's because i do not love myself very much.
I just heard of Vaush today. This is the first video of his I've seen. And now, I'm a fan. This is 100% spot on. What he says here needs to be taken seriously by anyone who wants to improve our society.
Yes I hope Joel doesn't think growing up in a conservative household is as big a factor as he seems to think.
I grew up in a very leftist household and I nearly got sucked into red pill ideology myself.
I side more with Vaush that the left is dropping the ball.
My upbringing was almost suffocatingly feminist, and it was fairly hard for me to come out as a trans man because I felt like my parents would love me less if I were a boy than a good feminist girl. I had enough progressive values instilled in me to keep out of conservatism but I was definitely a reactionary lib as a (bad, unproductive) way to rebel and process my gender issues. I’m sure stuff like this has happened to cis guys too. Plus, as Garfield says, you are not immune to propaganda.
@@invaderghostkungfu I hope your parents weren't TERFs. I imagine that would make it a real nightmare to come out as a trans boy.
I grew up in a conservative household and it was a HUGE influence and took me till age 45 to break out of it.
And I think it's kind of silly to blame the left for all the right wing bad actors. Do you think the right goes around blaming themselves for AOC or Bernie Sanders?
@@ModernRelic69 I agree the "blame" language is probably not appropiate here. More like we've failed to address these issues.
The right didn't fail in this regard, they countered the populism of Bernie Sanders with the populism of Donald Trump (whose values were more in line with the average conservative).
In any case, the DNC took out Bernie before he could compete with Trump.
Also, how many people grew up in right wing households, yet are staunch leftists? Quite a few.
You're at a party. You don't know anyone, and everyone's occupied, but there's two people you could come up to and talk to, neither of whom you know. One of them comes up to you and is complimentary and concerned for your well being. "Are you alright? You seem lost. I can help you find the way. Don't worry though, you seem strong, like a good leader. Let's get you back in action". The other sits in a corner, performatively disinterested, and starts sniping at you for not knowing what to do as soon as you approach them. "Pshh, you're lost? Ha, good one, grow some thicker skin. Just like, be better, dude. Should've just known to hang out with me the moment you came in. I'm so much better than that other guy you talked to"
The first person is a monster who's gearing up to inflict harm on LGBT people in America en masse, and the second one is working to stop them - but they need help. You don't know that, though. Who do you hang out with at this party? Do you think the second guest is going to accomplish the thing they're trying to do?
Great way to communicate the main concerns here
this is a great example. and I’ve personally experienced this around the time I fell down the right’s rabbit hole. it was the approach that pulled me in.
I don't understand this though, isn't the way the second person speaks exactly how Andrew Tate addresses the young men that watch him? Calling them virgin losers, they don't understand anything about the world if they disagree with him or don't understand him? His way of speaking is equally aggressive as the leftists who condemn him I'd say, so how would this example reflect that situation?
@@frankfurter00 true tbf but It's about more than just him, alone. Also don't underestimate how merely addressing your concerns can distract these young men from his more abusive language, especially when men are more used to constant ribbing and tough love
@@frankfurter00 The point is that the second person doesn't seem to believe in you, or have a plan for you. Tate's whole thing is "sure, you suck now, but join my Hustler University, and you can be rich and powerful". The right's thing in general is ackowledging men feel lost, and giving them a way out, a promise of help. They can phrase this in a Peterson way where it's all "it doesn't matter, buddy, you'll get better", or it can be Tate saying "Here's what to do to stop being such a loser", but the fundamental thing is always "There's a way out of feeling lost and lonely, and here's how, just do what I tell you, adopt my beliefs, and you'll be as cool and rich and powerful as me". All of the Tate types beliefs ultimately are backed up by the myth of the super-masculine patriarchal man, commanding respect, pulling himself up by his bootstraps, and the thing they sell is the idea that any man can become that - as long as they do what they're told. A lot of the time advice from the left just comes across as "just be good, just know what to do", like Joel saying "well you probably know what's good and bad, just do good things", and this is especially compounded on by often open hostility to men and taking their issues seriously, or affording them charitability when they don't do great immediately.
this is why i love your videos vaush. You arent afraid to talk about the stuff the left is afraid to approach, for fear of looking "impure" from a progressive standpoint. The reason why disaffected young men turn to the far right when looking to model themselves on a framework to be successful in dating and in life, is because the right welcomes them in and has advice on the ready. Its terrible advice but its there. Why would those kids become progressive or leftist in that state of mind if theres nothing there for them, other than "do what you can to be nice"
this makes a lot of sense dude, keep it real.
I think Joel, btw, is looking at this is terms of just your average person, NOT in terms f young impressionable, disaffected boys looking for a framework. When he said that advice wouldnt really have a big affect on anyone really, I could tell he didnt get this, and why the right does so well in this area and why the left does not.
Yeah I was saying in another comment, I'm in my 40s "do what you can to be nice" worked on me as a teenager in the 90s, but I don't think it works for younger guys today.
@@Beelzeboogie when I was on the far right I thought i was a good person doing everything to make the world a better place. i was sucked in not by malice but wanting to improve. the left just shat all over me which made me less likely to be open minded about them. now I'm on the left thanks to vaush, he actually moves the young guy demographic over.
the people giving young men help or advice are largely on the right and that's a big problem. us on the left need to be more amicable towards young men and their problems
@@emporioalnino4670 Yeah I think it might have something to do with the rise of self-improvement culture as well, like when I was a kid "self-improvement" was this kind of mocked term and "lad" culture, being a bit of a slob and not caring about your job was sort of celebrated. The 90s were just this very apathetic time for all that stuff. I think the changing socio-economic conditions have left the days when a guy could be kind of a dosser and get away with it behind, necessitating self-improvement and "grind" culture, which the right sells that better than the left.
@@Beelzeboogiethat’s a really interesting point about self help culture. I can’t help but associate the online men’s self help sphere with the right wing, and there’s really no reason these should be associated.
The most popular self help book recently was written by Jordan Peterson of all people, a man whose personal life has been in shambles, yet young men flock to him because he speaks to them directly
Explain what the left is afraid to approach? Again your summing up the left as if it's at a whole entire entity . It's not. It's filled up with many different people who think many different things... So you have you asked every leftist??
I literally don't understand why ppl on Twitter are criticizing Vaush, he's shown much deeper and radical empathy to men in this video than I could ever. I could be easily dismissive of problematic men as he outlined here, but in fact I think it is incumbent on us to demonstrate a similar level of empathy AND also not accommodate horrible "red pill" ideaologies that right wing personalities like Tate, Tucker Carlson, and Jordan Peterson espouse. It can be done. Great video as always @Vaush
even advice growing up before the internet was pretty shit for guys. i was always told "just be yourself and smile" which is just as useless as "do things you think are good"
Here is some leftist advice for young men, I would have given myself when I was younger:
1. Don't listen to other men what women actually want, if you want to know what your crush wants, their friends (sometimes also men) and herself are a much better choice.
2. When you talk to girls, try to keep cool and be patient, I know you're horny, I was too. For me it helped just to think, you are talking to a male you had no prior interactions with. You need to first establish some kind of relation before you vocalize your interest.
3. You will get rejection and it will hurt, a lot actually. The world is not fair, even if you did everything right, you will be treated poorly sometimes. Try to go on with your life, talk to your friends about it. Those that actually listening, no advice needed, just get it out of your system to let it go.
There is no reward for being a good person, but if your tried your best and tried to be kind, remember I am proud of you and so should be others.
for someone who gone down the rabbit hole i have to thank vaush for making me change my oppinions, happened not too long ago in december of last year(2022) so yeah i agree the left is very hard to get into when comming from the opposite side
Well we're happy to have you!
Men are people too. Having an environment that makes people feel unwelcomed isn't good for growing. Believe it or not, the left is not the most popular. Beyond the systemic reasons, the messaging is often just repulsive to the average American man. You feel like you are given two choices. Be hated by the left and get nothing for being an ally. Be hated by the left but at least have some sort of idol/father figure that's an alt-righter. Notice, the right doesn't give the feel of hate towards men. The left is about empowering the people. Men are people too.
I’m a leftist and here’s some advice from me, a man, to other men: accept being a loser, someone who takes Ls and use those Ls as a lesson. Accept that you won’t always reach every goal, won’t meet every expectation, and won’t always be right in a given situation. Stubbornness is cute and endearing and funny until it becomes a serious social obstacle to overcome. Listen to what transmascs have to say about their observations of masculinity. You hurt people close to you when you disparage others with insults about superficial and immutable characteristics.
If you care more about completing battlepasses and challenges and shit like that in video games and you don’t have fun playing the game, you’re just doing self harm. Not only are you causing unnecessary distress on yourself you’re also telling video game companies that their behavior is completely ok
Yes! Absolutely. Accepting that life isn't going to be the ideal most of the times is such an essential point to take into account. Deluding one self into believing that it is just you that is on a downward spiral while everyone is winning is just a dangerous mindset. Everyone has their failures even if you don't know about them or if they don't show them.
People who can take their Ls and talk about it are all gigachads. Not an easy thing at all.
This is all really solid advice! I’d like to add that it’s worth becoming comfortable with being silly/goofy/a bit cringe, trying to conform to a very austere and emotionless standard is not only unhealthy for you but it also prevents you from making an impression or being remembered in social or romantic contexts. Everyone likes and sometimes even respects the guy with quirks and good stories to be told about him. This goes double if you’re autistic. Embrace your difference and uniqueness.
(And you gotta listen to me on this one, I’m transmasc! Jkjk)
Wow.. right on the nail my friend. Good stuff
Well I Don't think that should be thought of as losing any way.
That seems to be enforcing the, already bad entrenched ideas that put you in the corner. Though maybe that is a first step as starting point, for people with that outlook.
Here some thoughts.
1. While learning your in constant flux.
It's about exploring but the topic and your own thoughts about it
2. If you think you have to be number one in any position to be good your already going behind, because what if your number 1 does that mean that you know a lot or are you now stopping you self from improving.
Think about contribution instead, , what does it even mean to be "better" at anything , is that the best way to look at things any way?
What you gonna use your skills for.
If you the "best " what you gonna use it for.
Instead think of where you are now and where you want to go.
"The feminists see men as the main enemy, for men have unjustly seized all rights and privileges for themselves, leaving women only chains and duties. For them a victory is won when a prerogative previously enjoyed exclusively by the male sex is conceded to the “fair sex”. Proletarian women have a different attitude. They do not see men as the enemy and the oppressor; on the contrary, they think of men as their comrades, who share with them the drudgery of the daily round and fight with them for a better future. The woman and her male comrade are enslaved by the same social conditions; the same hated chains of capitalism oppress their will and deprive them of the joys and charms of life. It is true that several specific aspects of the contemporary system lie with double weight upon women, as it is also true that the conditions of hired labour sometimes turn working women into competitors and rivals to men. But in these unfavourable situations, the working class knows who is guilty." -- Alexandra Kollontai, "The Social Basis of the Woman Question"
I remember in my school pretty much all the boys supported Brexit, I didn’t due to family, but the teacher asked and pretty much everyone said yes to it. No one was racist I was like 13/14 it’s just the messaging of one side is often far more effective.
Sometimes i forget how fortunate i was that nearly everyone in my class happened to be more left wing. Though we were all like 10/11 i remember during the 2015 general election my class mates chanting in support for Labour like a football chant... after one of the teachers gave us an assembly educating us on the election, that i recall was dubiously baised toward David Cameron.
It’s cause they just lie. And like, you can’t tell me that a part of that didn’t lay in some latent racism. When I was that age I had absorbed some really racist ideas from the surroundings I grew up in but never considered myself a racist cause “I don’t think black people are bad or white people are better.” But that didn’t absolve me from still engaging in some latent racist thoughts, behaviours and being more susceptible to more overt racism.
I have a similar story, though it doesn't revolve around gender. I was in elementary school when the 2000 Bush V. Gore election was going on, and my school held our own election to teach us about democracy. Out of around 100 students, (it was a small, private Lutheran school) me and maybe 2 or 3 other students were the only ones who voted for Gore.
@@sirgoo9962 the pain of hailing from a Tory constituency is real
@@666kittycat666 you’re probably right a lot of people voted Brexit for racist reasons but the British elite supported it for tax reasons, if anything Brexit increased non European migrants, some people would’ve supported it for racist reasons but the bourgeoisie would’ve done it knowing the results, I’d wager they spread propaganda for greed.
The only take I've seen that's at all constructive, and against Vaush, is that we should reduce the desire to end virginity rather than do self-help about dating. But the discussion here is far, far larger than the virginity crisis, or whatever you'd call it. And the self-help Vaush gives isn't just "do the good thing", or "do the thing that gets you pussy". The kind of self-help Vaush gives is purely self-improvement, and more leftists should give it.
Also as I posted under Joel's video, reaffirming good advice like a mantra actually is helpful. If I regularly come to a leftist for advice on ideological, moral, overall character self-improvement, they should have the tools to give it.
I didn't lose my virginity until I was engaged, and I couldn't have cared less.
@@fortheloveofnoise 👆 based. I respect you. More should be like you.
Precisely.
The first and most important thing you should ascertain before you set out to do something difficult is _whether you actually care_ , and _why_ . Where does your motivation come from? Do you actually want the thing itself, or is it a means to get something else by proxy? Is it important to _you_ , or is it just important to someone whom you're beholden to?
There are no wrong answers, and doing something for someone else's sake may still be equally valid. Having a decent understanding of these nuances will help you work more efficiently towards your goals, or towards finding goals which you actually care about (and it is OK if these goals are simple, such as "don't die").
@@BackwardsPancake well i know my desire to lose my virginity isnt my own and is just "something you do", but that doesn't really give me any peace.
Like yeah, I want to fit in, and that's an ingredient to that. So i dont have a drive to date for sex, but I do have a drive to be normal, and knowing that just seems to complicate things. Maybe I'm missing something?
sex is ok but you don't need to have it if you don't like it. i would just try to ignore most of the incel stuff if the implication of 'chaste = bad person' bothers you. just think of it like a general purpose insult like f@gg0t use to be, because that's pretty much what it's become anyway.
If I could amplify any point you make it would be to echo from the mountains how psychologically damaging male sexual anxiety is. In one man that fear results in a lifetime of misplaced rage and violence of varying severity. In a whole generation or population? It’s catastrophic.
Good video. However even here I hear this message "Tate fans are young mostly white men" but the white part is NOT true. Once I got sick of this White blaiming and joined one Tate fangroup on facebooc to find out. There were 60k members. 30% were from Africa and 20% were from Middle east. Europe came as third. There were also many Indians (more than Americans). Every time left talks about anything bad they mention "straight white men" as a ground zero or something, but too often they are wrong.
I strongly recommend watching HealthyGamerGG's channel, he is a psychiatrist who actually works with men and their insecurities. He has videos talking to self called incels and he really tries to help them from the professional's point of view. I'm a woman so it was very interesting to learn that men are like that because there is a lack of empathy for men. They have many emotional issues and they have nobody to talk about them because it is not considered manly to do so. I think we as a society should help men heal too
I believe men lead towards violence because they lack connections
I personally feel that it is more natural for men (than women) to be single in life and more men should learn to embrace it and harness it to their own benefit.
I discovered his channel too late.
As a leftie I had heard about Vaush before, but never really viewed his content. There's only so much content I can watch
But I saw him on his interview on TYT. It was great. It was compassionate, thoughtful, intelligent and most importantly. Bringing solutions to an issue that was never even really addressed by most leftists
I subbed. He did an amazing job
What compounds the problem is the expectation that men cede talking about their troubles because they are perceived as insignificant in comparison to those that women face. It’s a sort of “someone else has it worse, so stop complaining” rhetoric which, ironically, is what fuels toxic masculinity and perpetuates men who perceive emotions as “weak.”
It facilitates a culture of emotional isolation and makes these people more easily susceptible to any party ready to exploit that loneliness in an effort to fulfill their own aims.
i love joel, but when i watched that video and he said "you already know all the advice anyone can give you" i was instantly like "what the actual fuck are you talking about joel?" and that feeling only continued until the end of the video.
watch little joels new vid, he was talking about how he said he almost verbatim quoted jordan peterson to prove a point
The hate for online advice gets to me. Not everyone has good role models in their life that will teach them important things. Not everything you thinks is obvious is obvious to everyone. Sometimes you just need it spelled out.
There are too many people on the left who antagonize and seem to gain pleasure from dismissing or outright ridiculing men and teenage boys who haven't even done anything wrong.
Tate is a great example of kids reacting to this kind of treatment. Young guys responded to antagonism with antagonism in return. Why the hell wouldn't they? You think they're going to agree with the people who blame and mock them?
BuT rIgHt pOsTiOnS or something
Mean it's basically where I was not that long ago. Up until recently I was super religious and wrapped up in a very conservative church background. So when I went around looking to try to learn how to date because I have legitimately zero frame of reference outside of movies, all I could find was either the responses like "it's not my job to help you do your own research" "you're not entitled to women's bodies get away creep!" or "here's a link to this guy who's got all the answers". The whole time I just wanted to make sure I didn't accidentally creep someone out, but that doesn't matter since only one person or rather group of people reached out and said "hey I can help".
Ironically their rhetoric is really similar to what capitalist say about poor people. "oh you cant afford a house it's because your lazy and stupid" "oh you can't get a girlfriend it's because you don't shower and are low value"
@@doomdimensiondweller5627 you know what you are entirely right didn't realize it till now
this wouldnt even be an issue in the first place if a selective 80 or so percent of men were castrated at birth, a simple but effective policy to curb toxic masculinity and reduce sexual violence against women.
I think boys’ experiences dating during the adolescent years has a lot to do with their susceptibility to red pill ideology. I had terrible humiliating experiences during high school, and I never actually had a girlfriend until I my 20s, I ended up getting married to my first girlfriend and she is wonderful person. Still, even when I’m in my thirties, happily married, and constantly trying to educate myself on social issues, the past traumas from my teenage days constantly make me question my believes on women, even though I know for a fact that hypergamy is not a thing, I often catch my self-thinking It is and that it makes a ton of sense…
When I see close female friends ending one relationship after another to look for a “better match” it makes me mad, because I never had that opportunity, I was always rejected, and I compare that to the girls I tried to approach in my adolescence years, and it does seem like women have all the advantages when it comes to dating. Then I see my female friends hit the 30s and start to lose the attention of men or “settle down” and red pill ideology, again, seems to make sense. I must actively fight these thoughts in order not to fall into the rabbit hole…
I was awkward, chubby and spoke English with a heavy accent during high school, and that made me extremely shy, that is probably the reason I had such bad luck with girls. But remembering the girls who used me momentarily to then go for the chads has forever tainted my view on women It doesn’t matter how much I educate myself; past trauma is vicious and I believe experiences like that make Red Pill ideology so successful…
I know women have it awful in several aspects of their social lives, but I can’t stop believing that at least when it comes to dating, they have all the advantages… some use those advantages much more harshly than other though.
I can see this being true. I'm very left leaning but when I saw tate videos or other red pill bullshit I'd always watch and even comment sometimes to talk shit to the losers who support it.
That’s all you really can do. It’s a sad paradox.
I used to follow a henti meme channel for the same reason, got two sad to be funny after like three weeks
Andrew Tate is a weird case because he got popular on Tiktok and I think he was extremely overvalued and not nearly as important as a lot of people thought.
Thanks for missing the point. Talking shit and calling folks loosening solves nothing. All you're doing is reaffirming their belief. I got out of the most red pill talk on my own, what kept me for so long as people like you Zach.
@@TheDeadlyBlueWolf blaming others for your failings
Glad you talked about this
I'm not there's goat blood everywhere
Good on Big Joel for not only confirming exactly what Sid's tweet said about the Left not being able to give good advice, but going even further by seemingly dismissing the very concept of advice and self-improvement altogether. The fact that Big Joel seems genuinely baffled as to why anyone would even need advice and can't think of anything to say beyond "be good" speaks to his complete disinterest in helping people succeed in life under the current circumstances. How can anyone be even slightly surprised that people go to Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate for guidance when this is what passes for 'guidance' on the Left? He's usually smart but this is the most clueless I've ever seen him.
The left gives tons of good advice. If it’s ignored by certain groups that is on them.
@@alucard1116 Big Joel disagrees with you
When he said his advice is, “do things that are good in your opinion” I physically winced so god damn hard.
@@occasional_doomer funny he hasn’t said anything to me. What do you disagree with specifically?
@@savantGK3 why?
You could substitute Jordan Peterson for Andrew Tate and it would still be correct - maybe more so.
Peterson at least subscribes to a competence based hierarchy. Andrew tate's hierarchy is based entirely on demonstrating power over people and abusive control.
It seems like they really have difficulty picking decent quality candidates
@@jordanchen23 Peterson's idea of Competence is "rich person".
@@zacheryeckard3051 Petersons idea of competence is being excellent in your hierarchy of your field of choice. Not sure where "rich person" came from, as someone who listens to him.
@@cryptocaesar8972 from his defense of Donald Trump and Elon Musk. Regarding the former, you can check out a Dave Rubin interview about that (circa 2018)
There is a truly disgusting amount of people that parrot the EXACT same excuse of "Not ALL his takes are bad!! He says some good things!!!". My boyfriend's best friend has started saying it and is now straight up defending him saying "it's just accusations".
It is assumptions police came out nd denied tate was arrested for grape nd human trafficking. He's arrested for laundering they are trying to link him to a criminal through texts nd phone calls. Problem is I've had friend do horrible things yet I was never apart of it but by me text him I'm now brought into it as part of the crime.
Atm that's all that is known by the looks of it tate maybe around really bad guys nd it's them atm nd that's the key word atm.
This guy couldn't debate Conservative about shit lol he's not the smartest that's for sure.
They are doing the exact same thing jordy Stan’s do
Arguing with Kanye's fans on Hitler gets the EXACT same same response. It's infuriating.
@@TwRagnar Show me a news article right now from a trusted media source that states this and we will all eat our shoes. It's all been clearly stated by the police what he's been arrested for.
Which of his "good takes" do you endorse? I do agree they're there but I also don't consider any of them to be particularly profound either.
THANK YOU VAUSH! Ppl tend to forget how much men can be socially isolated. And because of that isolation, they go down the right wing black hole and listen to ppl like Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate. A little good faith advice goes a loooong way. "Hug your friend, workout to get to know your body, approach ppl in conversation without sexual intent and simply looking for a friend, associate yourself in social groups that support u and don't mock u for being less of a man." This is some advice I've given guys and IT WORKS!
There is a lot in what you say, but I am old enough to remember teen and pre-teen boys using "you're a girl" and "you woman" as insults, so there is, or was then, a degree of perception among young males that being male is better and stronger than being female.
Vaush is *100% correct*
It's actually VERY straight forward, and not controversial if you're a level-headed, rational person.
Sadly like Vaush touched on multiple times here and in other videos way too many of the online “left” are just reactionaries themselves and uninterested in actually making stuff better.
Only if you ignore the thousands of years of positive male content available to everyone.
@@alucard1116 From who?
@@yan_dj Socrates or maybe Malcom gladwell. Or superhero movies. Brian Cox or Marcus Aurelius. Or every “special” episode of a sitcom from the 90s. Or thousands of other people.
@@alucard1116 It is true that throughout most of the history of human society men have been getting much of the most expedient advice, but today's men, with today's social and economic circumstances, want and need advice too. But in today's internet age, most of the current advice in media that really addresses the modern struggles of men is coming from right-wing figures. If a man is feeling lonely and isolated, the right has the red-pill, black-pill, wokism-is-destroying masculinity, so many narratives ready to directly address that loneliness. Of course, most of the advice is both terrible on it's face and harmful, but the left _just refuses to give anything better,_ so that's where men are going. We need to tell them how to solve their issues is a healthy fashion, to do so isn't to further embolden men's status as the oppressors, but to tear down that mindset in men and giving them actually fair advice along with an actually fair political ideology.
I'm not sure about this title. The left has dropped the ball but clearly Andrew Tate and right wing media were perfectly capable of building up his media presence
They wouldn’t have been able to build it up nearly as effectively if the left didn’t drop the ball. The left is very bad at messaging with cis het white men because they feel that demographic has been on top of the world for so long and therefore is doing just fine. So they spend all their time focusing on messaging to women, LGBT folk, and minorities. Of course these groups should be made to feel that their voices are heard, but like it or not, cis het white men are a huge % of the population, and ignoring them because patriarchy is just plain foolish
by the left dropping the ball that helped tate.
as someone who is pretty heavily online, i literally learned about tate a month or so ago from a kotaku article. and most of this is because i started watching vaush. even beau hasn't specifically mentioned him( i suspect his take would be funny, given his background vs a fake tough guy). so i think it goes for age groups, he is apparently bigger with younger people, but my nearly 50 year old self had never heard of him before a month or so ago.
@@ryanweible9090 yeah he’s big on Tik Tok especially going after insecure 12 year old men
@@hollywoodjhawk7682 The left has been dropping the ball since 2016, all the Big Red, Trigglypuff, rampant anti-white hatred, and race swapping fictional characters into minorities are avoidable mistakes if they even bother to get rooted in practicality and cohesion instead of parading around in performative politics.
Don't let entitled activists co-opt social justice movements to justify the same discrimination they're fighting against. When you dehumanize someone for being themselves you risk creating the villain you've painted them as until they believe that about themselves. Don't let mistakes define you (unless they should) and do your best to practice what you preach. Fighting with hate instead of love will make the situation worse which is why you should never bully someone and always deal with the issue respectfully instead of making it personal (unless you're dealing with a bully) Privilege creates some awful people in general though... You have control over your outcome. You can only hope others will be open to changing with the right exposure the same way you can lead a horse to the water... It's up to him to drink... If you make it your responsibility to be understood you can go far with others you would never expect much change from. You have to learn to accept what cannot be changed also. It's also helpful to be able to distinguish the differences between the politics of blame and the politics of responsibility since ultimately WE are the government/community... Promoting a culture of acceptance instead a culture of judgmentalism would be helpful also. Sometimes all we can do is demonstrate results from being a better example until those examples replace existing structures by necessity and default. Some important voices get easily drowned out by everyone else looking for attention though.
DISCRIMINATION WILL NOT SOLVE DISCRIMINATION
ps: Purpose depends on individual but should be to enjoy existing while you're here and to be on stand by to be there for others when help is most needed. It would be cruel if this was a one shot deal for deaths of terminally ill kids... It should not justify devaluing life though. Our ancestors made it through 5 mass extinction events. We still have a lot of potential but we need to learn to stop cutting off the branch we're sitting on...
What if they're already the villain that they're thought to be?
Pointless right?
It seems people can't decide between "calling people out" and also "not placing them in a corner".
Maybe people are confused on how to stop hate by not creating more hate? I have trouble not being reactionary when it comes to my own ideals so I understand either way.
@@Based_Proletariat see line 3, 5, 9 and 10. I would also appreciate a well read and coherent response more then 12 words long. Also jail and death sentences tend to be a great motivator for reducing villain count in the server.
@@Based_Proletariat Well, if you make up a moral essentialist justification in your head, you can arrive at any conclusion that reinforces your biases.
@@HappyFunTimeMedia I will note that jail and execution do jack shit to actually motivate positive change. Punitive "justice" promotes a culture of perceived futility and lack of motivation to do better.
"Attractive" (what's considered attractive varies wildly over time and space) women are often the gatekeepers of sex. That I'll grant you. "Low value women", not so much, they largely get ignored just like the "low value" men being targeted by the likes of Tate.
Bingo. A lot of this "women gatekeep sex" stuff assume that you are a "top tier" woman. the rest of us ugly/fat girls (I'm talking about me, not you! I'm sure you're great) might as well not exist in the mind of a young man. literally no one is propositioning me the way men online seem to think women get propositioned. i've been invisible since high school and know many women just like myself.
@@erinsymone1645 SO AGREE! I actually just took a break from the video to write a few paragraphs about that because I felt like it was too much to comment, but yeah 100%. At least for guys there are social spaces and advice aimed at them, but for unattractive women, we’re just idk expected to hope someone happens to like us one day? It’s so hard to explain but it’s so dehumanizing because it’s like we’re not even viewed as people. I’ve had crushes on conventionally unattractive guys before but I don’t think it happens for unattractive women nearly as often.
Here’s a part of what I wrote that I think is relevant:
Even finding a guy who I think I have a chance with looks-wise and who’s personality I like, that’s already rare, but that assumes that they’re attracted to me as well. I feel like my only possible chance for romance with guys is to become friends with men first to endear myself to them with personality and kindness. I feel like I’m written off because I’m assumed to have it easier, but I have no space at all on the Internet that I’ve found to feel understood. And I’m glad the Internet has allowed for guys to have that space and I think leftys like Vaush and Hasan to a degree have a good grasp on how dating culture does work, but I’m left to just assume I should take any guy who happens to want me and I think even a lot of unattractive guys don’t even view unattractive women as women. We’re not options. We’re like sexless objects, if not thought of as worse. I don’t often hear “hey by the way, you’re not a supermodel either so make sure you aren’t just completely writing off every woman who doesn’t make you immediately go ‘awooga’ you don’t have to date someone you aren’t attracted to obviously but there’s more to the female population than skinny girls who wear makeup and aren’t taller than you”
@@bibubbletea Girls/women that sign up to dating sites, typically get messaged, no matter looks or body type, whereas boys/men, don't. And for boys/men, reaching out typically don't results in replys. Even fairly attractive guys/men can have that issue, because girls/womens inboxes typically are quite busy. So it can be very hard for a guy/man, to even find a girl/woman, to talk to online.
When it comes to sex, which probably isn't the most important part, girls/women have an easier time to get it if they want, whereas to some guys/men, it is almost impossible. This of course also has to do with the sexdrive, and there generally is a mismatch between genders here. Where a lot of girls/women don't have sex, because they don't have the drive for just hooking up, whereas many boys/men might, and that can lead them to feel powerless, because the girls/women could if they wanted to, but the boys/men can't.
When it comes to actual dating, finding a match is difficult anyway, but at least girls/women at least get some opportunities to talk with boys/men online.
Out in the real world though, conventionally unattractive people have a hard time.
But when it comes to people that are more shy than unattractive, women/girls have a higher chances of having a guy/man flirt with them. Potentially making them feel a bit less unattractive compared to a guy/man, in the same situation, that typically has to find the courage in themselves to walk up to the girl and strike up a conversation. Neither girls/women nor boys/men, can find a reliable leftist source to try to teach them overcome that shyness and learn how to talk respectfully to a person of the opposite gender. For boys/men though, there are all these people with bad takes, that they may or may not fall for, and in some cases it might work. Either they keep acting douchy, or that doucheyness, combined with the coaching got them to make the first move, and then they actually fall back on their true personality.
But it is true that girls/women, and in particular shy, or with low self esteem, as much as guys in the same situation needs to find a place to learn how to overcome that to increase there chances of finding love. But mostly, the sites for guys, just teaches them to behave badly, and it wont work. It also doesn't help that people, in particular girls/women get taught to feel offended if someone they don't like the looks of (even if they are age appropriate) attempts to flirt with them. One can hear this even among "feminist" girls/women, how offended they felt, and how bad it is that guys do that. But the same girls/women have no issue whatsoever if a guy/man they like the looks of does the same. A lot of hypocrisy there. But of course, some guys/men, can act really badly in similar situations as well, but at least I haven't heard guys/men ever complain about all the creepy women trying to flirt with them, even if they can be very condescending towards that specific girl/women.
Vaush seems like the kinda guy you could go for a drink with.
Get into a heated drunken debate.
Get into a fistfight in the carpark.
Then go for another drink.
I used to do that with my mom
@@asherroodcreel640 well in her defence, you shouldn't have run your mouth.
@@Palemagpie her house her rules!
@@Palemagpie naw she's deaf it had to do with ferrets
I get the feeling that the argument Joel THOUGHT he was making was that the biggest cause of men’s loneliness are entirely material conditions (which overlap with women’s issues in many ways, I think?). And that by tackling the material conditions like Capitalism and Patriarchy we’ll actually help men in a way more substantive than personal life advice ever could. But he phrased it so poorly and it felt more like an excuse for why we shouldn’t frame this as a men’s issue.
This really feels like a step down for the same guy who did a video about this awful tweet thread that talked about an incident where an armed assailant took a college classroom hostage and made the men leave before gunning down all the women in the class; he correctly pointed out how ghoulish it was for the person who made the thread to start blaming the men and accusing them of letting all those women get killed, even though were also victims in that scenario.
Edit: I think another problem is that there seems to be this underlying assumption that taking the time to come up with good, specific life advice and addressing the issues men face comes at the expense of advocating for the oppressed and minority groups that the left focuses more on. We can do both to varying degrees and it will be a net plus to everyone.
I also found it weird that the same Joel that argued that empathy could be weaponised against men, also came out with this
But that doesn't make sense, since the left clearly has lost focus on the fundamental material conditions. The left allied with feminism that is a movement, whos goal it is to propel women in to the elite. IT wasn't formed as a all womens right movement, it as formed for upper class and upper middle class women, to gain opportunities, and that to this day is a large focus of femisnim. It helped working class women, on the way, to build a large enough cohort to have political power. But then it just made up this conflicts between working men and working women, to keep the base engaged, and not focues on the real issue of the elites, because to open opportunities for women to reach the elite, is exactly the whole motivation behind the movement.
Using words like patriarchy is contra productive. Men don't rule the world. The elite rules the world, that most of them is men, is not the same as living in a patriarchy, where men rule over women. Even in the past, when men were called the patriarch of the family, most men didn't have any real power.
Racism, and sexism, loses much of it's power when people feel at peace with their lives, even if they would actually have a racist or sexist side to them, but mostly people don't really, when they feel a peace with their own lives and are not looking for a scapegoat.
The left has to look beyond any potential racism or sexism, and focus on the struggles of people, to reduce the impact of any such feelings.
But to do that, they have to talk to people they think might be racists or sexists, and prevent people from becoming those things if they aren't.
But instead the left is very focused on white privilege, in particular white male privilege, even despite most men or whites, actually experiencing it. Either they are just as bad off, or they don't have a living situation where they encounter as clear examples as may be apparent among higher educated people.... in some cases though, I don't think people in those circles get that there is a clear disadvantage to be poor and white as well, either because they can't tell by the gender or skin color that there might be a backstory to ask about, or because they simply don't get to know those people, and all they get to see is black upper middle class or upper class people expierence some struggles that they themselves did not, or see that qualified woman miss out on a job (but quite often in that case, there were also qualified men and other qualified women not getting the job, so there were many people not getting the chance they in theory deserved and sometimes it might be because of biases against certain types of persons, no matter the color of their skin or gender):
The only person who really understands the pipeline
I just don't get why it is so hard to help guild men to the right side of history. Most left-leaning men had to come to the realization on their own.
I was raised in a hyper-conservative environment. I didn't become "left" until my mid-20s when I got serious about how I started thinking about politics. It took me, working. You're 100% right about this. I think two things are true. Western civilization is right wing by nature for the most part, the US especially so. Being reactionary is easier as it appeals to base emotions like fear.
It will always be difficult to move civilization in a progressive way, and sometimes there will be steps backwards.
@Udive I agree with this. The left is especially bad connecting with rural white American culture. Especially now as it's become right wing as you described. Well said.
The lack of money thing has actually started to be a problem in my social circle. I've been hanging out with a coworker, and we generally go to the cheapest restaurants in town and then chill either in my RV or her hotel room, eating cheap snacks. Neither of us have a proper place to live. Her wife went ballistic because we are just hanging out watching stuff, sitting on *gasp* the same bed (even though we were on opposite corners and not even touching), and said it was inappropriate that we didn't go to a bar with other friends instead. Well, the problem we are both too poor to do that. Now, I said her wife was abusive and badly needs therapy. But the point is it's seen as weird when we are just doing the cheapest thing because we can't afford anything else.
She can't afford to be married and neither of you can afford to be dining in cheap restaurants.
@@TomikaKelly We were doing it roughly once a week to get out of the cold for a while as it was mid-winter in Michigan and I didn't have heat. I also don't have a proper kitchen, so grocery shopping isn't as cheap as it could be. Cheap restaurants means like, McDonalds or equally cheap. We both work, but trust me, when rent is as high as it is, the amount we were spending isn't really putting a dent in it. Investing in a bit of social time isn't the problem, stagnating wages, a gutted and failing social safety net, and lack of free places to hang out, all are. You can't "personal responsibility" your way out of rent being over half your income after splitting with roommates, especially when making more money means losing healthcare. It just doesnt work.
The “man picks up the tab” archetype leaks into the lesbian community too. As a masc lesbian I’m expected to initiate the interaction, plan the date, and pick up the tab(I don’t mind doing this when I know someone well, but not on the first date). Also a lot of fem lesbians are ultra pillow princess in bed, which I’m not into at all.
What is "ultra pillow princess in bed".
@@bargainbincatgirl6698 pillow princess is basically like a lazy sub/bottom. Someone who puts in no effort and just expects to be dominated/topped perfectly
lots of toxic masculinity exists in the lesbian community but its never really acknowledged. like im more fem and i only ever get flirted with by masc women and theyre always the ones to start the conversation.
As a highly feminine lesbian, on my first date with a girl who is more masculine, I paid for our drinks and I picked where we would sit. I like to take charge…. It surprised my date.
@@jlp6864 I’m so sorry to hear that, yeah I wish that it wasn’t so concrete. I only initiate because it’s kind of apart of my personality to start convos with people, I’m pretty extroverted. I wish fems would start convos more🥲
I think we need to stop victim blaming. I saw this post and it made me self reflect. The way a lot of the left treats lonely men is very similar to the way capitalist treat working class people. They act like it's always their fault and the market is one hundred percent fair and if you can't get rich or even afford a house it's your fault. This is obviously wrong for reasons I probably don't need to tell you, but a lot of people apply basically the same arguments to lonely men. A lot of the things women want just aren't fixable. Take height for example, that isn't fixable without really expensive and dangerous surgery. Or the fact a lot of women want rich men. Saying you can get these women is equivalent to saying you can just become rich.
Great point
I'm glad men like him are popular. I was getting sick of 'misogyny no longer exist' bs . I like that we're finally having this conversation
yes misogny exist as a reflection to supress other side
@@hakangun9860 yeah I guess?
We can’t be afraid to be manly men and hold left values. I can like socialism and Mixed Martial Arts. What’s the problem. I can respect women and also want to take care of a family. Why do we allow people to make us believe these things are at odds?
Finally at the end you tell the truth. Joel is soy af. He’s a less cowardly Noah Samson.
It really hurts when people on the left said people like me were a lost cause, and really contributes to feeling like they don't really care.
I'm 61. All of this is depressingly familiar. We're about at 1982 now, which was when the same forces inflated the ranks of the Reaganite neoliberal movement. This has happened every three decades or so all the way back to Gutenberg's printing press. I spent the better part of a decade when I was on the faculty of FSU and so had access to good university resources. The past always gets forgotten, because after the lunatic misandrists take over and coöpt and take over any genuine sexual egalitarian impulse, they turn on each other, resulting in a clusterfuck of such a high degree that everyone is sick to the teeth of the whole thing.
Naw I think it's justified because of Bill Clinton
My parents are leftists, as were their parents, and people from my family fought and died for the reds during the Finnish civil war, I grew up with people who would make most American leftists look like a bunch of liberals so when I say that won't stop your insecurities as a man from being exploited by a bunch of right wing grifters I really mean it. At no point did I want to oppress people or anything like that. As a young depressive bipolar man with tourettes, ADD, no job, no future prospects and a whole host of other bullshit I won't get to, I felt utterly abandoned by society as a whole, and the only people who seemed to care were right wingers, of course I fell for it.
Its not only the words itself or the advice, its about that someone cares, anyone. Thats a emotional thing, the feeling that you as a person matter.
Tate offers this for his own narcisstic reasons. JP offers this, when he cries about the beautiful men who suffer.
The left doesn't and often sees you as a problem.
And this is why men can gravitate to these figures. Don't get me wrong they inject you with toxicity and a shit ideology. But they can connect with the alienation men feel these days.
With me, even when I leaned right, culturally, I identified capitalism and the profit motive as at odds with human flourishing. So.. I went through a time of being socially conservative, but economically left-wing. 😶 Meh, I learned lol.
Im so happy Vaush exists. You are the non-braindead leftie i can stand by any day of the week
I have watched a lot of creators on the left and have seen Vaush and Hasan and others talk about young men and their concerns which is great. More of them need to do this, its very very vital to do this. These twitter posturers have been utterly disappointing in many things they have been saying, they are intentionally mischaracterizing any attempt to talk about how leftists should also be talking about men's issues into something else.
the "thats me" when joel says vaush's name is so funny lol
i was expecting a mario, given how he said it.
Even as someone who is sympathetic to the left. For many years I was very critical of the feminist movement because of the anti male stuff. It took Vaush to really get me to consider looking at the issue from another perspective. The left is simply leaving young men to the care of the right.
The man hating stuff is definitely very loud, which is a shame because feminism benefits men AND women but to many it may not seem that way.
@@violetsparkles5453 Feminism *can* benefit men and women *when* it behaves in egalitarian ways.
The problem is that Egalitarian Feminism is not the only hat under the big top, but it tries to pretend it is.
@@zacheryeckard3051 feminism at its core is egalitarian, just because there are people that label themselves as feminists that behave in misandrist doesn’t change the definition.
@@violetsparkles5453 Feminism started out as a movement for upper and upper middle class women. It has always had a bias towards dealing with issues of those groups rather than creating an equal society. And it ha often painted working class men, be it blue or white collar working class men to be the ones standing in the way of womens achievements, when it has been the elite/ruling class, denying both women and men opportunities. The feminist movement needs its enemies, and because it is largely controlled by elites and designed to help the elites, there is a strong focus on making middle, working and the under class men out to be the enemies.
The womens right movement, was in the past willing push women of color out of the movement, when they thought they would better be able to progress the goals of white women, if it did not have to be a movemnt for a minority as well.
The history of feminism is not a history of creating a equal society, where men and women and minorities have equal opportunities. The main driver has been for women at the top to be able to truly become the elite.
The word in it self says it is a movement for women. And that is what it is.
Feminsim is not a good ally for the left, as it isn't about creating an equal society, it was just about open up the door for women to compete at the top. And the most effective way to sustain the engagement in larger groups have been to make an enemy at every level, and men has been made out to be that. And sure there are many bad men, at every level. But to really create a society of equal opportunity, all in the same class should be working towards the same goal, and that is absolutely not, and had never been the focus of feminism. Feminisms has welcomed men, willing to fight for women, but is has never been an open door policy for them to integrate with the fight.
@@violetsparkles5453 No, sir or ma'am, it is not.
First wave feminism was in no way egalitarian. It was racist and classist.
Feminism as a whole has NEVER been egalitarian. I'm all for the growing trend of egalitarian feminism, but it is a straight up lie to suggest that the movement is egalitarian "at its core". There is no core. It's an umbrella people gather under.
Got to be honest. I find this shit incredibly tiring to see discussions around because so often it feels like the same circle-jerk arguments over and over, and I don't mean discussion of men's issues. But rather, the response to the discussion, because even going back like seven years or so, the discourse was the same.
People, please. Discussing men's issues is not an automatic invalidation of women's issues or POC issues, or LGBT+ issues. Men's issues apply to straight, gay, bi, white, black, asian, male-presenting, trans etc.
Discussing men's issues only becomes a misogynistic self-fulfilling prophecy when you don't allow for room for the discussion to be had. How do people think individuals like Milo Yiannopoulos developed a following? Because as toxic and slimy as he was, he filled the niche for a time.
Nobody wins in a race to the bottom. And nothing gets done if people aren't willing to confront uncomfortable truths.
Wow Vaush, what a coward, picking on Little Joel instead of Big Joel? Disgusting. He's just a small Joel, have mercy.
_HE WISHES TO OPPRESS THE SMALL ONES._
I'm into leftism because thousands of artists and writers put their all into keeping that torch lit. Those leftists spoke to me.
We as a broken enraged unhealthy downtrodden exhausted anxious stressed and destituted society desperately need a host of people who can act as good listeners problem solvers and have empathy to listen to the masses understand and try to offer good solutions and sound advice. Basically an army of therapists or counselors. Particularly we need more of these people online. There is an major opportunity that is being missed here as more kids teens and young adults are growing up online which unless alternatives are presented can easily fall prey to the rabbit hole of lies and disinformation. Gotta head them off at the pass before they fall through the cracks because our educational system is too broken to try to fix this mess as it is currently and family and social situations are often a mess. So without role models leaders and sympathetic people helping the youth grow there is a lack of options for them to turn to except often online personalities.
The fact that everything Vaush says here has to be debated so much on the Left is one of the many reasons why I feel so hopeless about the possibility of real, actually existing solidarity among progressives
It's also not just that young men are lonely. The fact that there is so much hostility toward us in left-wing circles is actually a reason why we don't want to be around you. And finally, men are naturally (from a biological standpoint) more socially competitive than women. This means that we do have a need to strive to be our best, and when we don't have social circles that reinforce this in healthy ways, it makes us feel like we don't fit in, and that can lead to socially awkward behavior. The left is going to have to figure that one out.
It’s honestly upsetting to see the lack of enthusiasm from so many left creators in running counter-culture against people like Tate and so many others like him that have come before.
The most I’ve ever seen that comes close are the rare occasions when Hasan does his Chadvice segments, but that’s one creator and one rare segment.
Young normie dudes who don’t know how to get laid can benefit from an inspirational figure that genuinely wants to help them. Especially instead of some grifter trying to sell them NFTs, crypto rug pulls, and unironic sigma male memes.
I agree 100%! As a liberal who almost went over to the dark side, I have to say that there's a certain type of liberal who drives you in that direction. Is there anything that rational, commonsense liberals can do to silence the extremists and the woke scolds?
So I didn't know what "brain dead advice" sid was referring to, but then Big Joel said "men...... be nice :)" and yeah maybe he had a point there as well. It just doesn't actually help anyone.
I was falling down the alt right rabbit hole because I was constantly being classed as a bad person and lesser individual based on qualities that I cannot control. This was usually "backed up" with ideas that are blatantly wrong.
Thankfully, when the alt right started to become full on racist, something clicked and I moved away.
Joel hugely dismissing humans as social animals. Most of our lived reality is based on what people say!
It's true. I'm as left as they make them but when I was trying to learn about dating, self improvement, or anything along those lines, I was forced to learn from right leaning sources. Very frustrating.
And before you say the left has XYZ sources: THEY SUCK! Never did I get any practical advice on these topics from left leaning sources. Mainly just got sanitized advice that doesn't work and doesn't come from a male POV. The only left leaning sources that gave any sort of legitimate advice here were literal scientists and their published studies. But none of the left leaning talking heads were worth listening to on these topics. It's sorely lacking.
I think a lot of people on the left are legitimately not attractive nor understand how to be. The guy in the video is not a guy most women would ever think about sleeping with.
Macabre Storytelling has made a video on UA-cam talking about how leftists don't give practical advices for dating.
the problem with this video is that its arguing against something lil joel isnt even saying, hes talking about the tweet that says THE reason why people flock to the alt rigth is this "advice thing" not the nuanced what ever vaush is talking about and frankly its makes for a kinda limp sort of strawmany video, do better.